Kate Winslet: “The media called me fat!” Why I’m embracing wrinkles and championing women (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) The mainstream media in the UK, it's no (00:00:02) secret, were absolutely horrific to me. (00:00:05) Horrendous in a way that they should all (00:00:07) be ashamed of. And every single tabloid (00:00:09) newspaper should have sent me a written (00:00:11) apology, which they haven't done. I do (00:00:13) have to advocate for myself after 33 (00:00:16) years in this business. It's quite (00:00:18) amazing really. And there are ways in (00:00:20) which we speak to women in the film (00:00:22) industry that we simply don't speak to (00:00:24) men [music] in the same way. (00:00:26) >> Christmas for you. What is Christmas Day (00:00:27) like in your house? (00:00:28) >> It's just fantastic. You know, there's (00:00:30) stockings and everyone climbing into bed (00:00:31) and all doing stockings and, you know, (00:00:34) somebody bringing mom a cup of tea, (00:00:35) which I love. (00:00:40) >> Kate Winsler, what an absolute joy. (00:00:42) >> Oh, thank you for having me. We've not (00:00:44) met before, which feels (00:00:45) >> a bit s Yes, it does feel a bit odd (00:00:47) since we've both been around for so (00:00:49) long. (00:00:49) >> For so long. And we know people who (00:00:52) know. (00:00:53) >> I don't know anyone (00:00:55) >> apart from our shared hair colorist. (00:00:57) There we go. (00:00:57) >> I know. But it's so great to meet you (00:01:00) >> and you. (00:01:00) >> I had a chat with myself whilst prepping (00:01:03) for this podcast because 14-year-old me (00:01:05) went to the St. An Center in Harrow four (00:01:08) times. I used up every penny that I (00:01:10) could find lying around to watch (00:01:12) Titanic. (00:01:12) >> And I said, "Right, 14-year-old Fern, (00:01:14) you can come along today, but you're not (00:01:16) asking the questions." So, she's here, (00:01:18) >> okay? (00:01:18) >> But she's not in charge. (00:01:19) >> She's just sitting on your shoulder (00:01:20) saying, "Don't do it, Fern. Don't do it. (00:01:22) >> Don't you probably see You've probably (00:01:24) seen it more times than I've seen it. (00:01:25) >> Oh my god. I don't tend to watch my (00:01:27) films very often. (00:01:28) >> Do you not? (00:01:29) >> No. Funnily enough, no. It's not (00:01:31) something I'll just sit down and watch (00:01:32) myself in a film. I don't think so. (00:01:34) >> But what about like at Christmas? The (00:01:36) holiday is inescapable. Surely. (00:01:38) >> Oh, darling. No, I just don't actually I (00:01:40) really don't I don't tend to go back on (00:01:42) things. I the the process of making a (00:01:45) film and being with everybody and part (00:01:47) of that community is so special and (00:01:49) unique to me that almost watching the (00:01:50) film feels like a very separate part of (00:01:52) the process. And sometimes I almost feel (00:01:55) like, oh god, that's something I have to (00:01:56) do because it's not I don't find it (00:01:58) comfortable watching myself on screen. I (00:02:00) don't know many actors who do like (00:02:01) watching themselves on screen (00:02:02) >> because you're self-critical. (00:02:04) >> Um I mean probably yes. I mean I (00:02:07) definitely know that I can be. Um but (00:02:10) also just because it feels like I don't (00:02:12) know. It's it's just a sort of a (00:02:13) separate experience. Watching it all put (00:02:16) together is so different to the process (00:02:18) of making it daytoday living and (00:02:21) breathing and experience with a big (00:02:23) group of people that uh seeing something (00:02:26) in isolation separate to those (00:02:28) individuals feels very odd. (00:02:31) >> So I think it's got something to do with (00:02:33) that. (00:02:33) >> Slightly different this time round I'm (00:02:35) imagining for Goodbye June because not (00:02:37) only are you in it but you're also (00:02:38) directing it. So, you've kind of got to (00:02:40) have all eyes on all of it outside of (00:02:43) your respective part of of the acting in (00:02:45) it. (00:02:45) >> Yes. And and and I produced it as well (00:02:47) because just doing one job or two wasn't (00:02:49) enough, so I had to do three like an (00:02:51) idiot. Um, but I loved it all. I mean, I (00:02:54) I I think I was I was so exhausted and I (00:02:57) and and had sort of a I don't know, I (00:02:59) felt like I had batteries up my bum for (00:03:01) months on end, but I felt so uplifted by (00:03:04) the experience. You know, I heard (00:03:05) someone recently say on a podcast, (00:03:07) actually, they were talking about the (00:03:08) difference between stress and pressure. (00:03:11) Stress being a bad thing, but pressure (00:03:12) being something that you can really work (00:03:14) with and uh and be uplifted by if you (00:03:18) are enriched and fulfilled by what (00:03:19) you're doing. And I truly experienced, I (00:03:22) think, more than ever in my life, real (00:03:24) fulfillment and a sense of (00:03:26) >> achievement because I had to pull off a (00:03:28) lot in a short space of time. We had (00:03:31) seven weeks to prep the film and put it (00:03:33) together, which is when you find all of (00:03:34) the locations and build the sets, etc. (00:03:36) And then I only had seven weeks to (00:03:38) shoot, which is 35 days. Helen Yeah. And (00:03:41) Helen plays the title role of June. And (00:03:43) I actually only had her for 16 days, you (00:03:46) know, for three weeks and one day, and (00:03:49) she's the integral part of the story. (00:03:52) And I had seven children, which was (00:03:53) actually eight because there's a baby in (00:03:55) the film, and that was identical twin (00:03:56) girls. So, there was just so much to (00:03:58) juggle and balance all of the time. (00:04:01) not only keeping the atmosphere lively (00:04:03) and joyful on set largely for the sake (00:04:05) of the children, but also because the (00:04:07) subject matter at times was quite (00:04:10) wearing on people emotionally. But the (00:04:12) crew, you know, as a director, you (00:04:14) really do have to lead by example and (00:04:16) bring everyone with you. And so having (00:04:18) that energy and switching that part of (00:04:20) myself on at the beginning of every day (00:04:22) was fantastic. And uh and it really (00:04:25) brought me so much joy to do something (00:04:27) that I've never done before. and um and (00:04:30) I felt proud of myself as a woman, you (00:04:32) know, at this time in my life. I just (00:04:34) turned 50 and to be doing something that (00:04:36) I have watched so many men do before and (00:04:39) I've seen male actors transition into (00:04:42) directing and um have done really (00:04:44) successfully and largely without any (00:04:46) judgment or scrutiny. And it's just not (00:04:49) the same for girls. (00:04:50) >> No, it's not. And it feels like for you (00:04:53) personally, not only is this an amazing (00:04:56) challenge for you to to make that (00:04:58) switch, but also you're doing it on (00:05:00) behalf of women to help this cultural (00:05:02) shift in the very male-dominated (00:05:05) Hollywood directing scene. (00:05:06) >> Yeah, it it mattered to me a great deal, (00:05:08) I think, to (00:05:09) >> to really sort of walk alongside those (00:05:12) women who are in a minority still. And (00:05:15) it's it's bizarre and it's strange and (00:05:18) it's a shame. Um, I think the culture is (00:05:21) gradually changing. You know, I think (00:05:22) something that people perhaps don't know (00:05:24) about directing is that you aren't on (00:05:27) the job for seven weeks of prep and (00:05:29) seven weeks of a shoot. You know, if the (00:05:31) prep is longer and the shoot is longer, (00:05:32) then it's a more substantial period of (00:05:34) time. But the development process when (00:05:36) you work alongside a writer, which I've (00:05:38) done several times now, is really, (00:05:40) really lengthy. You know, when they hand (00:05:41) in draft after draft and you give notes (00:05:44) and they get it right, that's a long (00:05:45) process in itself. Then pre-production (00:05:48) and the production itself. But then you (00:05:49) immediately go right into the edit and I (00:05:52) was across everything. I didn't I didn't (00:05:54) leave my editor's side. My editor was a (00:05:56) woman. I was so proud to work alongside (00:05:57) a woman, Luchia Zuceti, who I just loved (00:06:00) to pieces. She was wonderful. She worked (00:06:02) a lot with Lim Ramsey in the very early (00:06:04) days. And so she was a huge inspiration (00:06:06) to me every day in terms of her own (00:06:10) sensibility around storytelling. and and (00:06:13) then once you finish the edit, which is (00:06:15) 10 solid weeks, you go right into the (00:06:17) sound mix and then you go into the grade (00:06:18) and then you it's it's just it's (00:06:20) absolutely endless. And I loved that (00:06:23) sense of backtoback. And I think what (00:06:26) people perhaps don't consider is that as (00:06:29) women, we're so busy raising families. (00:06:31) >> Yeah. (00:06:31) >> Having children. So, it is a lot harder (00:06:34) to step away. You know, being a (00:06:36) director, it's it's over a year of your (00:06:38) life start to finish. It really is. And (00:06:41) um and I certainly couldn't have done it (00:06:43) at this in my life before this time now (00:06:47) when my youngest is almost 12. Um and (00:06:50) I'm lucky enough to have an (00:06:51) extraordinary husband who's at home and (00:06:54) running the show when I'm in a studio (00:06:57) somewhere. And uh I couldn't do any of (00:06:59) it without Ned. I mean, it's a total (00:07:01) given when you see a male director that (00:07:04) no questions would be asked like how are (00:07:05) you doing this and juggling a family? (00:07:07) Whereas when it's a female in the role, (00:07:09) those questions are probably asked (00:07:11) before anything like how are you how are (00:07:13) you doing it all? And that I think only (00:07:15) >> shows us like it illustrates that we are (00:07:17) still carrying not only the practical (00:07:20) burden a lot of the time but the (00:07:21) emotional burden of raising kids, (00:07:23) organizing everything, who's taking what (00:07:25) to school, is there a school trip coming (00:07:27) up, are there birthday presents to buy? (00:07:29) It's still there's not been that much (00:07:31) progress in in that area. Maybe Ned is (00:07:34) one of the few men who are doing that. (00:07:36) >> He is one of the few. I am really very (00:07:38) lucky. But you know I think what you say (00:07:39) is is so true that there are questions (00:07:42) put to women that are just simply not (00:07:44) put to men and there are ways in which (00:07:46) we speak to women in the film industry (00:07:48) that we simply don't speak to men in the (00:07:51) same way. Um and actually there's still (00:07:54) a lot that we have to unlearn in terms (00:07:56) of you know just (00:07:59) sentences that we use when speaking to (00:08:02) women in film assumptions that I think (00:08:04) we so often make. I remember when Maggie (00:08:06) Gyllenhaal directed Lost Daughter. I (00:08:08) remember reading a review and it (00:08:10) actually started like this. If anyone (00:08:12) ever doubted whether or not Maggie (00:08:13) Gyllenhaal could direct a film, you can (00:08:15) stop thinking that right now because she (00:08:17) smashed it. And I just thought, (00:08:20) >> wow. (00:08:21) >> Wow. (00:08:22) But they would never say that about an (00:08:26) actor transitioning (00:08:27) >> into directing a film. And it's not to (00:08:29) diss the boys because [laughter] they're (00:08:32) all doing so well and it's very very (00:08:34) exciting to be part of a community that (00:08:36) is changing and lots of actors are being (00:08:38) given that first-time opportunity to (00:08:40) direct a film. Netflix were brilliant (00:08:41) with me and I have to say in general (00:08:43) Netflix are spectacularly good at (00:08:46) affording filmmakers that first (00:08:48) opportunity and that debut experience (00:08:49) and so they really got behind myself and (00:08:52) my son Joe who wrote the screenplay and (00:08:53) he's young and there was a huge amount (00:08:55) of goodwill and great energy behind us (00:08:58) from them. So that mattered a great deal (00:09:00) but it has been fascinating how much I (00:09:02) still feel I do have to advocate for (00:09:04) myself after 33 years in this business. (00:09:08) It's quite amazing really. It's wild. (00:09:10) And also the experience you've had in (00:09:12) front of the camera obviously lends (00:09:13) itself (00:09:14) >> to articulating what you want out of (00:09:17) your actors. What was that like? I'm (00:09:18) sure that many of them you've worked (00:09:20) with before or are friends with, see (00:09:21) outside of work. Did that, you know, (00:09:24) benefit you in in the directing chair. I (00:09:27) think the thing that the thing that (00:09:28) helped me is that I've been so fortunate (00:09:31) to work with so many different directors (00:09:34) across my career and have learned (00:09:37) extraordinary things in great ways, but (00:09:40) have also learned things that I know (00:09:42) weren't necessarily helpful to me. And (00:09:44) so I've I've got a very good memory. And (00:09:46) so I can recall certain things that may (00:09:48) have been said or a way in which (00:09:50) something might have been communicated (00:09:52) that was not necessarily supportive or (00:09:54) might have thrown me for long enough (00:09:55) that I would lose my way in in any given (00:09:58) shooting day or lose a sense of what my (00:10:01) intention was within the scene. Um, and (00:10:04) so I think just feeling underpinned by (00:10:09) what I know is useful to an actor. And (00:10:12) to be honest, the most important thing (00:10:14) is that an actor feels heard and given (00:10:17) the space to share an idea, even if it (00:10:20) might be something that they're worried (00:10:22) about coming out of their mouth in a (00:10:23) weird way and it might sound like a (00:10:25) silly idea or they might make a mistake (00:10:27) or forget their lines and make up (00:10:29) something else. I think giving an actor (00:10:31) a space in which they feel entirely safe (00:10:33) and free to experiment and to um be (00:10:38) taken care of, you know, uh especially (00:10:40) with something like Goodby June, which (00:10:42) deals with family, it deals with loss, (00:10:45) it deals with very complex relationships (00:10:47) and there's a lot of humor in spite of (00:10:51) the sadness that you feel at times as (00:10:53) well in the film. And that did mean that (00:10:55) there were many private conversations (00:10:57) that we as actors had to have together (00:11:00) and them with me as their director (00:11:02) knowing that the trust would be there. (00:11:04) Those things would be kept very very (00:11:06) private and sacred between all of us. (00:11:09) And ultimately it bonds you much closer (00:11:11) together when you know one another on (00:11:14) that very deep granular level and that (00:11:16) there are things that you share that you (00:11:19) know you would never (00:11:21) >> express anywhere else outside of that (00:11:23) really sacred circle. Um (00:11:26) >> and I just loved it and I've always said (00:11:28) there's nothing more extraordinary than (00:11:30) being in a room full of incredible (00:11:31) actors and and it really felt like that. (00:11:33) >> Oh my god. The cast is exceptional. (00:11:36) >> I know. I know. What a dream lineup of (00:11:40) people in this film. I don't want to be (00:11:42) as reductive to say like was it (00:11:43) cathartic because it's not that simple, (00:11:45) but were there moments where you were (00:11:48) able to connect to your own experience (00:11:51) in perhaps a painful way or or a way (00:11:53) that was slightly lightening? Yes. I I (00:11:56) mean I think having lost my own mom uh (00:11:59) in 2017, which still feels like (00:12:00) yesterday, um it was inevitable that (00:12:05) however much I would try and keep that (00:12:08) private experience separate to my (00:12:10) day-to-day experience of playing Julia, (00:12:13) one of the daughters, and directing (00:12:15) Helen Mirin, and watching her go through (00:12:17) what she went through to play this part. (00:12:19) It wasn't necessarily cathartic, but (00:12:22) there were days when I was literally (00:12:23) reliving what happened um when I lost my (00:12:27) own mom, even though our film is (00:12:29) fictional. Um yeah, and I would find (00:12:33) myself strangely trying to almost hide (00:12:36) in a funny way. So in the more intimate (00:12:38) scenes perhaps between Helen Mirin and (00:12:40) Tim Spall, you know, I would just sit (00:12:42) very quietly in the room that we were (00:12:44) shooting in and I would hide behind Max, (00:12:46) our lovely focus puller. Um, and I would (00:12:49) just sit with him quietly watching his (00:12:51) monitor and sort of crying on his back. (00:12:53) I mean, I remember many times doing (00:12:55) that. And I'm just lucky that he's (00:12:56) someone I wor with before with HBO on a (00:12:59) very big six-month job called The (00:13:00) Regime. And he was just a great spirit (00:13:04) to sort of cidle up to in those moments (00:13:06) when I think I did feel very vulnerable (00:13:09) because it did bring all that stuff up. (00:13:10) And actually, in this country, I don't (00:13:12) think we're very good at talking about (00:13:13) loss. I don't think we're very good at (00:13:15) processing grief and um in an (00:13:19) interesting way, you know, it did bring (00:13:21) up a lot of those conversations and (00:13:24) people were quite grateful to be able to (00:13:27) have them, not just the cast, but (00:13:29) sometimes the crew as well. I bet I mean (00:13:31) it's a it's a subject you've explored (00:13:33) before in Blackbird again after your mom (00:13:36) had passed away. It's a very different (00:13:39) theme and the angle that your character (00:13:42) plays is entirely different. But again, (00:13:44) you're having to go through that process (00:13:45) of looking, you know, Susan Sarandon in (00:13:49) this uh in this film obviously, but (00:13:51) going through that loss again. It's it's (00:13:53) full on. I know it is full on. And there (00:13:55) are things I think, you know, that as (00:13:57) actors we're drawn to um entirely (00:14:00) subconsciously (00:14:01) >> and it's only in hindsight that it's (00:14:03) crystal clear what we must have been (00:14:05) emotionally trying to work through when (00:14:08) we made that particular choice. It's so (00:14:09) funny when I look back to Blackburn, (00:14:11) which you're right, was 2018, directed (00:14:12) by the late wonderful Roger Michelle. (00:14:15) Still can't believe that we don't have (00:14:17) him with us anymore in our film (00:14:18) community. Um, but it was only a year (00:14:21) after I had lost my mother. And uh, I (00:14:25) look back on it now and I think, oh my (00:14:26) god, what was I thinking? I was in no (00:14:28) shape, you know, emotionally fit to be (00:14:31) making a film to do with loss at all. (00:14:34) Um, but it probably helped me to (00:14:36) distract myself um from emotions that I (00:14:40) probably wasn't processing efficiently (00:14:42) enough in my own in my own life. They're (00:14:45) difficult conversations to have. And I (00:14:47) think what I love the most about Goodbye (00:14:49) June is that it is an uplifting film. It (00:14:52) feels warm, you know, and that mattered (00:14:55) a great deal when we were prepping the (00:14:57) film. We didn't want our hospital spaces (00:15:00) to feel stark and cold and lonely (00:15:02) because actually when our brilliant (00:15:05) National Health Care workers are working (00:15:08) in end of life care, they're so loving, (00:15:10) they're so patient, they're so kind, (00:15:12) they will sit at the bedside for as long (00:15:14) as that patient needs or as long as that (00:15:17) patient's relatives need for them to be (00:15:19) there in order to provide that comfort. (00:15:22) And we wanted that sentiment to be real (00:15:26) first of all. um which is why we spent a (00:15:28) lot of time on real hospital wards (00:15:31) working with nurses and paliotative care (00:15:33) experts just to make sure that we (00:15:34) weren't missing anything. Um but we (00:15:36) wanted to honor the work of those (00:15:38) brilliant people and what they do in (00:15:40) this country which is of course as we (00:15:42) know second to none. (00:15:43) >> Yeah, I know. And there'll be so many (00:15:45) people this Christmas going through (00:15:47) exactly that probably feeling utterly (00:15:50) alone like everybody else is having a (00:15:52) jolly great Christmas and they're the (00:15:53) ones at bedside. I when I was watching (00:15:55) it, I had this huge memory that I'd sort (00:15:59) of like not forgotten, but it hadn't (00:16:01) been in the forefront of my mind of when (00:16:02) my granddad was really really on his (00:16:04) sort of final days and we went to visit (00:16:06) him on Christmas Day and it was a really (00:16:08) surreal experience. (00:16:09) >> Oh my gosh. being in hospital on (00:16:11) Christmas Day and he was kind of in and (00:16:13) out of lucidity and saying some like (00:16:15) brilliantly hilarious things and being (00:16:17) quite wacky in the state he was in and (00:16:19) it being yeah there was a lot of hope (00:16:22) there and a lot of camaraderie from all (00:16:25) of us being around him and (00:16:27) >> I think there would just be so many (00:16:28) people that relate to it and of course (00:16:31) >> when you've lost someone and I wonder (00:16:32) how you feel about this Christmas does (00:16:34) have a different flavor to it. (00:16:36) >> Oh my gosh, (00:16:37) >> it's a different thing. It really does (00:16:39) because it's one of those huge (00:16:41) celebratory occasions that becomes the (00:16:44) first of something that happens after (00:16:46) you've lost someone, the first birthday, (00:16:48) your children's first birthday that you (00:16:50) have after that person's gone, first (00:16:52) Christmases, etc. you know, there are (00:16:55) they become these milestones where it (00:16:57) becomes gapingly obvious that that (00:17:01) person's presence isn't there anymore (00:17:03) and what those moments had meant (00:17:06) >> for you as a family when they were with (00:17:08) you. Um and so yes, I think I think that (00:17:12) it is a very interesting reflective time (00:17:15) Christmas because also it brings up so (00:17:17) much you know [laughter] (00:17:18) >> um it brings up so much wonderful times (00:17:20) and really challenging times you know (00:17:22) >> and there's so much expectation that (00:17:23) it's meant to be something and if you (00:17:26) don't land on oh it's this perfect (00:17:29) sparkly day (00:17:30) >> oh my gosh (00:17:31) >> you feel like you're missing out or (00:17:32) you've got it wrong. It's such a strange (00:17:35) strange thing. (00:17:35) >> I know. I'm thinking of myself last (00:17:37) Christmas and I was just absolutely (00:17:39) frantic, you know, doing everything and (00:17:40) wrapping and cooking and brining and, (00:17:42) you know, all of that stuff. And I (00:17:43) remember Ned at one point turning to me (00:17:44) and saying, "Do you think you could just (00:17:46) sit down and have maybe we could just (00:17:47) have a drink?" And I said, "Do you sit (00:17:50) sit down? Are you mad?" And [laughter] (00:17:52) he looked at me like he looked at me (00:17:54) like I'd totally lost my mind, which I (00:17:56) think I probably had. But anyway, it's (00:17:58) all worth it, isn't it? (00:17:59) >> It it it can be. It definitely can be. (00:18:01) It is so much weird fuss for like one (00:18:03) day. each year. Why am I why I started (00:18:06) Christmas shopping in like early October (00:18:08) this year? I thought I did that too. I (00:18:11) was like, I want to get ahead of all of (00:18:12) this and have it wrapped and on like in (00:18:15) the side of a room somewhere and I'll (00:18:17) think about it in December. I was (00:18:19) thinking, what the heck what the [ __ ] am (00:18:21) I doing like 1st of October logging on (00:18:24) to Christmas shop? I mean, what is what (00:18:26) is Christmas for you? What is Christmas (00:18:28) Day like in your house? (00:18:30) >> Oh, it's a real laugh. I mean, it's it's (00:18:32) it's it's just fantastic. You know, (00:18:34) there's stockings and everyone climbing (00:18:36) into bed and all doing stockings and, (00:18:38) you know, somebody bringing mom a cup of (00:18:40) tea, which I love. And uh yeah, I it's (00:18:43) it's one of those days when actually I (00:18:45) find that my kids really do uh pause and (00:18:50) think and take the time to kind of make (00:18:52) me a piece of toast and scrambled eggs. (00:18:53) Like little things like that. So, and I (00:18:56) just love all being together, you know, (00:18:58) heaps of food. Usually me and my son (00:19:00) cooking. He's always cooked alongside (00:19:02) me. And uh (00:19:04) >> Oh, it's great. It's really great. Lots (00:19:05) of people. There's always visitors. It's (00:19:07) great fun. (00:19:08) >> Yeah. So, (00:19:09) >> and games. Lots of silly games. (00:19:11) >> Yeah. Lots of very very silly games. Oh (00:19:14) my god. We last year we got obsessed (00:19:15) with playing um this game called (00:19:18) Soundiculous. Oh, nice. So, it's a (00:19:21) little box with two kazoos in it and a (00:19:24) little stack of cards and you have to (00:19:26) try and play the tune of the song (00:19:29) written on the card, but only through a (00:19:31) kazoo. (00:19:32) >> It's flipping hilarious and actually (00:19:34) totally made me wet myself last year. (00:19:36) [laughter] Um, because people trying to (00:19:38) emphatically blow harder to make the (00:19:40) things sound clearer when everyone's (00:19:42) shouting out things like, you know, (00:19:43) Tootsie, you know, [laughter] it's (00:19:45) clearly not Tootsie. That kind of thing. (00:19:47) Um, so that was a great game. And then (00:19:49) there was another one that's another (00:19:50) game that somebody got us which and I (00:19:52) can't remember what it was called, but (00:19:53) it was so funny. And it's a it's a game (00:19:55) where each person puts on a little (00:19:57) plastic belt and attached to the back of (00:19:59) the belt that dangles down between the (00:20:02) legs is a is um is is is a little sort (00:20:06) of plastic hook. And then the idea is (00:20:09) that you waddle around the room with (00:20:11) your legs straddled trying to pick up (00:20:14) little sort of plastic hoops that are (00:20:16) balanced in various places on the floor (00:20:18) >> with a fake Willie. (00:20:19) >> With a fake Willie. And so [laughter] (00:20:23) >> getting everyone up on their feet, (00:20:24) people who are normally just happy to (00:20:26) sit there and eat a box of Quality (00:20:27) Street, watching them with a great sort (00:20:30) of balloon type contraction dangling (00:20:31) between their legs is one of the (00:20:33) funniest things I've ever seen. (00:20:34) >> Yeah, I need to invest in that one. I (00:20:36) know what it was called. I really like (00:20:37) niche bespoke Christmas things that (00:20:41) people do because you do get into a sort (00:20:43) of sense of tradition that you end up (00:20:45) doing the same thing every year. I (00:20:46) remember when we were kids, (00:20:48) >> but it's comforting. (00:20:49) >> It's so comforting. (00:20:50) >> It's really comforting and reassuring. (00:20:51) >> I love it. My uncle every Christmas day (00:20:53) would put on Mike Lee's Nuts in May, (00:20:56) which is the least Christmy film ever. (00:20:58) >> That's hilarious. (00:20:59) >> And we would watch that and it was not (00:21:00) Christmas unless we had watched that. It (00:21:03) wasn't, you know, a classic Christmas (00:21:04) movie. It's just such a strange thing. (00:21:06) >> That's It's a very strange thing. (00:21:08) >> It's a great film. (00:21:08) >> I know. (00:21:09) >> Um, you like me are also navigating (00:21:12) Christmas with kids, with ex partners, (00:21:14) co-parenting. Do you navigate that well? (00:21:18) >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's never been any (00:21:20) kind of a challenge actually at all. But (00:21:22) in actual fact, for the majority of the (00:21:24) last eight years, my daughter's dad and (00:21:27) his lovely wife, who I just so grateful (00:21:30) to have in my life, and their two (00:21:32) children, we've all had Christmases (00:21:33) together. (00:21:33) >> That's so lovely. Um, and actually for (00:21:36) his daughters who are 12 and 15, it's (00:21:39) now weird if they aren't with us. (00:21:42) >> Um, and actually me as dad and I cook (00:21:45) the Christmas dinner sometimes. (00:21:47) >> That's so lovely. (00:21:48) >> I know. And, uh, you know, I haven't (00:21:50) particularly I haven't ever actually (00:21:51) talked about that because we just get on (00:21:53) with it. Um, I think there's a sort of a (00:21:55) strange fascination in the media with, (00:21:58) you know, when uh high-profile couples (00:22:02) or people who are in the public eye have (00:22:04) separated, there's sort of a huge, you (00:22:06) know, flurry of excitement around, oh my (00:22:07) god, they get on. (00:22:08) >> Yeah. (00:22:09) >> Well, of course we bloody do. (00:22:11) >> Yeah. You got kids together? (00:22:12) >> Well, exactly. Exactly. And uh (00:22:15) >> Yeah. Yeah. And as I say, Jim, um, Jim's (00:22:18) wife, Julie, she's just such a (00:22:20) spectacular lady, and I just feel so (00:22:23) grateful to have had her as me as (00:22:25) stepmother. (00:22:26) >> It's something extraordinary about (00:22:28) another mother in the world loving your (00:22:31) child (00:22:31) >> the same way that you do (00:22:33) >> and I just feel incredibly grateful to (00:22:35) have that. (00:22:35) >> I mean, your daughter Mia is now also (00:22:38) acting. Yes. You won a BAFTA together, (00:22:40) which was a gorgeous moment seeing you (00:22:42) both up on stage. Like what an amazing I (00:22:45) can't even imagine how what that felt (00:22:46) like. (00:22:46) >> Well, I mean it was just incredible. (00:22:50) Absolutely incredible. And I think being (00:22:53) in a situation where both of my older (00:22:57) children have gone into the film (00:22:58) industry and wanting for them to feel as (00:23:02) though they were carving their own (00:23:03) paths. You know, I I definitely felt (00:23:07) very strongly from Mia at the time that (00:23:10) she really wanted to prove that she (00:23:12) could do it (00:23:14) >> and also that she was different to me. (00:23:16) She is a very different actress to me, (00:23:18) different person. Um, we look very (00:23:20) differently. She's actually quite (00:23:22) titchy. Um, I mean, I'm not that tall. (00:23:24) I'm only 5'6, but she's about 5'2. and (00:23:27) um she's got a power to her and a sense (00:23:32) of uh and and a realism about her (00:23:35) acting. She's very very natural. Um (00:23:37) unnervingly so actually I think and I (00:23:41) was just so proud of her for the (00:23:43) performance she gave in I Am Ruth (00:23:44) because it was unbelievably challenging (00:23:47) every single day. And I think something (00:23:49) people perhaps don't know about um I Am (00:23:52) Ruth was that it was entirely (00:23:54) improvised. There was no scripted (00:23:56) dialogue. There was no there were no (00:23:58) lines written down for us on a page. The (00:24:00) script was made up entirely of scenes (00:24:03) that were just description. (00:24:04) >> Wow. (00:24:05) >> There were no words written. So every (00:24:07) day we were inventing the narrative. (00:24:10) >> And that took real concentration, but it (00:24:13) took from her extraordinary courage (00:24:16) because she had to go to places that (00:24:18) were very frightening. (00:24:20) >> And she bloody well did it. My god, she (00:24:22) smashed it. (00:24:23) >> That's so incredible. (00:24:24) >> Yeah. Oh, the like the pride that you (00:24:27) feel clever girl. I mean, I just Yeah, I (00:24:30) do feel such extraordinary pride. And (00:24:32) then she was in the finishing scheme (00:24:33) directed by Wes Anderson with Benio and (00:24:36) >> she's she's had a really great run and (00:24:38) she's a she's a hard worker and uh and (00:24:40) she's a she's a great great person. So, (00:24:43) I'm very proud. (00:24:44) >> I mean, obviously it's being a mom is (00:24:46) just the most complicated wild ride ever (00:24:49) and you want to set your kids free and (00:24:51) say go do whatever makes you happy. Was (00:24:53) there trepidation in seeing her go into (00:24:56) the same industry that you've been in, (00:24:58) especially at a young age? (00:25:00) >> I'm not the kind of person who (00:25:01) approaches anything in life with (00:25:02) trepidation to be honest. So, so the (00:25:05) answer is no. I mean, it certainly (00:25:07) crossed my mind, (00:25:09) >> okay, how is she going to handle herself (00:25:11) in an industry that is quite frantic and (00:25:14) can be particularly for her generation, (00:25:16) particularly as a girl, really (00:25:18) competitive, especially right now. So (00:25:20) many brilliant young actors are coming (00:25:21) up and doing such great things and it's (00:25:22) a really exciting time I think to be in (00:25:25) the film industry for young people. Plus (00:25:27) there's tons of opportunity now when you (00:25:29) look at the streamers and the content (00:25:32) there's masses of it. You know when I (00:25:33) was running around auditioning when I (00:25:35) was 16 17 years old there was BBC 1, BBC (00:25:38) 2. Eventually we got ITV there was radio (00:25:42) plays a bit of theater (00:25:44) >> lowbudget films which were rare and (00:25:47) films like Star Wars and Casualty. that (00:25:49) was it (00:25:49) >> or the bill or the bill and crime watch, (00:25:52) you know, and and you were lucky if you (00:25:54) got one of those very few gigs that (00:25:56) everybody was vying for. But now that (00:25:58) there's this huge wealth of content (00:26:02) available, um, creativity is just going (00:26:04) through the roof. And so it's very, very (00:26:06) exciting. Um, but I wasn't I wasn't I (00:26:10) wasn't worried about Mia not being able (00:26:13) to uh handle herself and I certainly (00:26:16) wasn't worried about whether or not she (00:26:18) could do it because I've known for years (00:26:20) that she was going to be an actress from (00:26:22) when she was a little girl. (00:26:23) >> Wow. (00:26:23) >> I knew and I just thought, well, one day (00:26:25) you'll declare it. And then she did and (00:26:26) she went, are you shocked? And I was (00:26:28) like, no, not remotely. (00:26:31) >> What about the sort of press element to (00:26:33) it? Because again, I mean, you and I (00:26:35) both know in different ways that they (00:26:37) can be bloody awful (00:26:39) >> and I've certainly been to Helen back. (00:26:41) You've had your own challenges in your (00:26:42) own life with that. Have you do you sort (00:26:44) of offer words of advice or did you feel (00:26:46) personally worried about her stepping (00:26:48) into that? (00:26:48) >> Yeah, I mean I think I think the only (00:26:51) I've only ever given my kids advice if (00:26:52) they've asked for it, right? (00:26:53) >> I've never forced anything onto them (00:26:56) because I do want for them to completely (00:26:58) navigate their own path. Yeah. because (00:27:00) if they aren't doing that, they won't (00:27:01) feel like they've done it and they won't (00:27:02) truly believe in themselves and what (00:27:04) they have to offer. So, that's the most (00:27:05) important thing. The only advice I um I (00:27:09) have given or try and give is just to (00:27:13) stay calm, be yourself, and don't read (00:27:17) reviews. (00:27:18) >> Never, never, (00:27:19) >> never, (00:27:20) >> never, ever. (00:27:20) >> Worst thing you can do. (00:27:22) >> Yeah. I mean, I find feedback such an (00:27:26) interesting concept and that's whether (00:27:29) it's good or bad (00:27:30) >> because I think both can be kind of (00:27:33) equally as dangerous. I might be (00:27:35) overegging the sort of like the (00:27:36) celebratory stuff, but I think if you (00:27:38) buy into either side too much, you're (00:27:41) kind of screwed cuz if you believe the (00:27:42) good stuff, then when it goes, you don't (00:27:45) know who the hell you are. Well, the (00:27:46) thing is if you read the good stuff and (00:27:48) you believe the good stuff, you're still (00:27:50) going to find one bad thing and you will (00:27:52) only remember the one bad thing because (00:27:54) that's how we're wired. (00:27:56) >> Yeah. (00:27:56) >> Um, so yeah, I'd say, yeah, feedback and (00:27:59) yes, people are things to be wary of, I (00:28:01) think. (00:28:02) >> Yeah. I mean, where where do you sit in (00:28:04) it all now? Because obviously it's (00:28:05) amazing, especially when you've worked (00:28:06) on a project like like Goodbye June when (00:28:08) you're so ingrained into every element (00:28:11) of it. You want people to enjoy it. You (00:28:13) want people to say, "Oh my god, that (00:28:14) touched me. I wept or I thought it was (00:28:17) purely joyful. But equally, when you're (00:28:20) sort of lapping up that feedback, you (00:28:22) are then curious about, like you said, (00:28:24) the downside. Do you do you read (00:28:25) anything? Do you hear anything about (00:28:27) your projects you're working on? So, I I (00:28:30) learned early on in my career, (00:28:33) how to not (00:28:36) care what people think. Because if you (00:28:39) care what people think, then you make (00:28:41) decisions and live your life based on (00:28:43) potential scrutiny or criticism. But I (00:28:47) do very much care how people feel. (00:28:49) >> So when people come up to me, you know, (00:28:51) in the eggs aisle in Waitros and they (00:28:53) tell me that they can't wait to sit down (00:28:56) with their daughter and watch the (00:28:57) holiday at Christmas like they do every (00:28:59) single year like many mother and (00:29:00) daughter couples. It's a running theme. (00:29:02) Um it warms my heart completely. So (00:29:05) people coming up and saying, "Oh, that (00:29:06) performance moved me or I really loved (00:29:08) that film and it meant so much to me and (00:29:10) reminded me of my that's different." (00:29:13) That is a wonderful thing because we're (00:29:15) only making the work for audiences. (00:29:18) That's the most important part for me. (00:29:20) So actually I have thought a little bit (00:29:22) about how am I going to cope with this (00:29:24) now with goodbye June coming out and (00:29:27) reviews as a director because I think I (00:29:30) might feel a sense of responsibility and (00:29:32) duty for the other actors to just know (00:29:34) that it's all okay you know everyone (00:29:38) chill you know keeping everyone level (00:29:41) and that sense again of wanting everyone (00:29:43) to feel safe um and supported I might (00:29:46) feel that I need to just keep a bit of (00:29:48) an eye Um, but I don't know, maybe I (00:29:51) maybe I will be able to apply my same, (00:29:55) you know, personal survival strategy (00:29:57) rule and not read anything. Um, it (00:30:00) matters to us as the people behind the (00:30:04) film. It matters to us enormously that (00:30:06) people appreciate it and feel moved by (00:30:10) it. And perhaps that it perhaps that it (00:30:12) might ignite conversation because I (00:30:14) think that some of the most complicated (00:30:16) relationships in our lives are with the (00:30:18) ones we love the most. (00:30:20) >> Yeah. (00:30:20) >> Um and so often, you know, we forget to (00:30:24) talk about that. Um and it's so much (00:30:26) easier not to have those confronting (00:30:29) conversations with a family member that (00:30:33) you may need to have. It's so much (00:30:34) easier to just avoid it. But actually, (00:30:36) in the long run, is that right? you (00:30:38) know, and I think the film really does (00:30:39) dig in to that and ignite that (00:30:42) conversation, which is interesting to (00:30:44) me. (00:30:44) >> Oh my god, without a doubt. I mean, (00:30:45) there's obviously that very moving scene (00:30:46) where you're sat with your sister on the (00:30:48) floor and you I don't want to give too (00:30:49) much away, but you're having a real very (00:30:51) needed heartto-heart after years of not (00:30:54) getting on, clashing heads (00:30:56) >> while not speaking. (00:30:57) >> Well, not speaking. And you know, that (00:30:59) is very common place again in many (00:31:00) families, you know, where there's (00:31:02) relatives that will not be in the same (00:31:04) room as each other. Would you say that (00:31:07) you've applied that to real life? Cuz it (00:31:08) is hard. Like, you know, if I think (00:31:10) about having really honest conversations (00:31:12) with my mom or dad, that to me is way (00:31:15) harder than probably sitting here with (00:31:17) someone having a heartto-he heart that I (00:31:18) don't really know. Yeah. Conversations (00:31:20) with parents are something that I I (00:31:23) actually as I got older and I think (00:31:24) because I became a parent quite young (00:31:26) when uh when I was only 25. Um I think I (00:31:31) I had a I think I had an awareness from (00:31:34) a younger age of just how important it (00:31:36) was to communicate properly with my (00:31:39) parents. I have a I have a very very (00:31:41) close relationship with my father. Um (00:31:44) and and and we do really share (00:31:46) everything and we have good old chats. (00:31:49) Um and he's absolutely brilliant at (00:31:51) telling it how it is. So I'm very very (00:31:53) grateful to have that. Um I mean I just (00:31:55) try and live my life, you know, with (00:31:57) intention and integrity and to treat (00:32:00) people the way I myself would hope to be (00:32:02) treated in return. (00:32:03) >> Yeah. life is really too short to be (00:32:05) burdened with negativity and you know (00:32:09) toxic influences and I just um (00:32:12) >> I just do my best to you know walk (00:32:15) through the world being a decent person (00:32:18) it it matters it matters to me a great (00:32:20) deal in every aspect with family with (00:32:23) friends with people I work with it (00:32:25) matters to me a lot (00:32:26) >> do you care how much you're liked (00:32:28) because I think that's a very different (00:32:29) thing and I like what you said earlier (00:32:31) the distinction between not caring what (00:32:32) people think, but became what people (00:32:35) feel. I've never really landed on that (00:32:37) before. And I think that helps in this (00:32:39) conversation because I in the last (00:32:42) couple of years have wanted to really (00:32:43) combat that need to be liked. And I (00:32:46) think because I mean my job is being (00:32:48) myself. So if someone says they don't (00:32:50) like you, it's you they don't like (00:32:52) rather than it being a character or (00:32:53) sometimes even a skill set. And I think (00:32:55) that used to feel like a huge burden and (00:32:58) I'm unpicking it. But the tendency to (00:33:00) people please was omnipresent and it and (00:33:03) it informed so many of my decisions and (00:33:06) the way that I move through the world. (00:33:07) And I'm only now in my mid-40s going I (00:33:10) don't want to do that anymore. I've got (00:33:12) to care less if people like me. And if I (00:33:14) need to say something that seems a bit (00:33:17) blunt or forward or or I need to say no (00:33:20) quite frankly. (00:33:21) >> Interesting. So in but in what in what (00:33:23) context do you mean like? So are you (00:33:25) talking about people that you meet or (00:33:27) are you talking (00:33:28) >> literally anyone that you really because (00:33:29) I think you know you're obviously (00:33:31) globally wellknown. I'm absolutely not. (00:33:33) But I think it is more heavily weighted (00:33:35) when people assume things about you and (00:33:36) go oh yeah I really I really like that (00:33:38) Kate Winsler. Oh I really like that Fern (00:33:40) Cotton. Oh I don't like her. You know (00:33:42) people instantly make a decision as to (00:33:43) whether you're a likable character. And (00:33:46) that for me has been way too it's been (00:33:49) disproportionately heavy. I think (00:33:51) >> Fern darling [laughter] (00:33:53) >> give me the advice. Let's go. You cannot (00:33:55) control or dictate (00:33:57) >> No. (00:33:58) >> The opinions and attitudes of other (00:34:00) people. (00:34:01) >> No. (00:34:01) >> All you can do (00:34:03) >> is live your best life. (00:34:04) >> Yeah. (00:34:05) >> Be a decent person. (00:34:06) >> Yeah. (00:34:06) >> And live and speak with integrity. Yeah. (00:34:09) >> And then you know that you can go asleep (00:34:11) go to sleep at night (00:34:13) >> knowing that you did your best today. (00:34:15) >> Yeah. (00:34:15) >> That's it. (00:34:16) >> Yeah. (00:34:17) >> You can't please everybody. There will (00:34:19) always be people who don't like your (00:34:21) hair, don't like your face, don't like (00:34:22) the sound of your voice, don't believe (00:34:24) the things that you say. One thing for (00:34:26) me that I know people assume is that (00:34:29) really well educated, well bred, well (00:34:32) read, you know, um probably had a bit of (00:34:35) privilege. I was a little street (00:34:38) scrapper. My parents had absolutely (00:34:40) nothing. But people don't think that of (00:34:42) me because I speak well. And I (00:34:45) absolutely understand why people (00:34:46) wouldn't think that. But there's a (00:34:47) reason why I speak very well and it's (00:34:50) because my maternal grandmother went to (00:34:52) Italia Conti which is a very famous (00:34:55) theater school. She was in the same year (00:34:57) as Noel Coward. (00:34:58) >> Wow. (00:34:58) >> So she was taught how to speak. She grew (00:35:01) up above a pub on Charlotte Street. (00:35:04) >> She was taught how to speak well. So (00:35:06) when she had her six children, they (00:35:09) copied the mother tongue. So when I was (00:35:11) born, we copied our mother's tongue, (00:35:14) which was to speak well. M. (00:35:16) >> And so, and it drives me crazy that I (00:35:19) would never be able to correct what (00:35:20) people think. But I can't do anything (00:35:22) about that. (00:35:23) >> No, you can't. (00:35:23) >> I can't do anything about that at all. (00:35:24) >> You drive yourself mad. (00:35:25) >> And you know what? It's okay. Let them (00:35:27) think what they're going to think. (00:35:29) >> You can't live your life trying to (00:35:31) change the opinions of other people. It (00:35:33) doesn't work. You'll make yourself (00:35:34) miserable. (00:35:35) >> When do you think you landed on that? (00:35:36) Because obviously, I think being thrown (00:35:38) into the spotlight at a young age, you (00:35:40) are fast tracked to try and learn that (00:35:41) one quickly if you want to (00:35:43) >> survive Hollywood. And that might sound (00:35:45) like quite a severe way of saying it, (00:35:47) but I think you do. You survive it or (00:35:49) you don't. (00:35:49) >> You're absolutely right. Surviving (00:35:51) Hollywood, surviving, you know, an (00:35:53) industry that can be cutthroat. (00:35:55) Certainly when I was younger was very (00:35:57) cutthroat. And the mainstream media in (00:35:59) the UK, it's no secret, were absolutely (00:36:02) horrific to me. Horrendous in a way that (00:36:05) they should all be ashamed of. And every (00:36:06) single tabloid newspaper should have (00:36:08) sent me a written apology, which they (00:36:10) haven't done. Um, even that is (00:36:12) disgraceful. It's just like be (00:36:13) courteous. Just hold your hand up and (00:36:15) say, "We shouldn't have done that to (00:36:16) you. You were a young girl." Um, and I (00:36:20) was scrutinized for how I looked because (00:36:22) they decided I was fat. (00:36:25) >> Well, what do you think that does to a (00:36:26) person's self-esteem? What do you think (00:36:28) that does to someone who probably was (00:36:31) teetering on the verge of a horrible (00:36:32) eating disorder at that age? because I (00:36:34) don't know any young actress at that (00:36:36) time in their early 90s, late 80s, early (00:36:39) 90s who wasn't battling with some form (00:36:42) of issue around their phys their (00:36:44) physical selves because that was simply (00:36:46) what the press did. (00:36:47) >> Yeah. (00:36:48) >> Um and I think I realized after a lot of (00:36:52) upset and hurt and um a feeling of (00:36:56) wanting to just hide actually I think (00:36:58) for a while I realized that I couldn't (00:37:02) change any of it. I could just hope that (00:37:04) it was going to quietly go away (00:37:06) eventually. And I was very lucky because (00:37:08) I had Mia, as I said, when I was so (00:37:11) young and that became my world. And so (00:37:13) all that other [ __ ] it just evaporated. (00:37:16) Thank God. And that's one thing now that (00:37:19) I have been able to carry into my (00:37:21) parenting of all of my children. I just (00:37:25) tell them to be themselves, you know, (00:37:26) tell them that they should only ever (00:37:28) feel great and be kind to themselves (00:37:31) because sometimes they have to hear from (00:37:33) us as mothers, you are beautiful, you (00:37:35) are wonderful, now get out there and be (00:37:38) yourself. Because guess what, Fern? If (00:37:40) we aren't telling them these days those (00:37:42) things, they might not hear it from (00:37:45) anywhere else because the world is so (00:37:47) critical and because of social media and (00:37:50) because of likes and because of wanting (00:37:53) to conform to some strange idea of (00:37:55) perfection that (00:37:56) >> God knows where it comes from. But young (00:37:59) people on the whole are suffering with (00:38:01) their mental health. They are chasing (00:38:03) some ideal just because they want to (00:38:07) feel good in who they are. So this sort (00:38:09) of strange slightly warped perception of (00:38:12) being included, counting for something, (00:38:15) you know, a basic level of self-esteem (00:38:18) is being really tampered with, I think. (00:38:20) >> I agree. (00:38:20) >> Um, amongst young people today. And I I (00:38:23) find it really sad and and really very (00:38:26) very worrying. And that's why looking (00:38:28) like a normal person, having a face that (00:38:30) moves, having all of the wrinkles that (00:38:32) my 50 years hopefully show um that (00:38:36) matters a great deal because I again I (00:38:39) want to lead by example. I want for (00:38:41) young women to look at my body, my face, (00:38:43) and go, "Oh, that's a normal one." You (00:38:45) know, there might not be that many of us (00:38:47) being the normal ones, but it's (00:38:50) important and it matters. And I know (00:38:51) that the women in my industry who I I (00:38:54) admire the most of all, (00:38:55) >> they're completely normal, gorgeous, (00:38:57) beautiful women at the age of 70, 75, (00:38:59) 80 (00:39:00) >> And um it's reassuring that we have (00:39:03) those people to look up to. We all want (00:39:06) someone to look up to. And I think I (00:39:08) think if um if we can be decent women um (00:39:12) in today's world and be kind to (00:39:14) ourselves and to others, (00:39:17) >> I think it's important. (00:39:18) >> Being kind to yourself is so huge. Like (00:39:21) one of my best mates always says to me (00:39:22) if I'm, you know, she's the person I'll (00:39:24) call in a crisis or if I'm not dealing (00:39:26) with something well and she'll always (00:39:27) say, "Okay, I'm listening to everything (00:39:29) you're saying and I and I hear it and I (00:39:31) get it. Just don't turn the gun on (00:39:34) yourself." No. (00:39:35) >> And that always stays with me if I'm (00:39:37) having a tough time because I definitely (00:39:40) probably more so used to have the (00:39:41) propensity to go, "Oh, yeah. I am a I'm (00:39:44) a shitty person. I'm awful." and I will (00:39:46) just regurgitate anything that I've (00:39:48) heard about myself, especially when I (00:39:50) was younger and, you know, exposed to (00:39:52) press stories about me or whatever. Were (00:39:54) there times where you didn't have that (00:39:56) level of self-compassion like your (00:39:58) younger self? (00:40:02) >> Yes. I think I think when I was a (00:40:04) teenager, (00:40:06) um, and I'm talking like when I was, you (00:40:07) know, 14, 15, 16, (00:40:10) because I was quite chubby then, like (00:40:13) actually uncomfortable. (00:40:15) um in a way that also didn't really add (00:40:18) up. You know, I think hormonally there (00:40:20) was probably stuff going on. Um and (00:40:23) yeah, I definitely had days when I'd (00:40:24) look in the mirror and think, "Okay, I'm (00:40:26) not going to look in the mirror again (00:40:27) today." Or I'd put a sheet over the (00:40:29) door, the the door with the mirror on (00:40:31) it. Um definitely things like that. Um I (00:40:35) don't think I ever felt ashamed of (00:40:37) myself, but definitely self-conscious. (00:40:40) And I was teased as a child, as a (00:40:43) younger child at primary school for (00:40:45) being a bit on the stocky side. Um, (00:40:48) children can be cruel to other children. (00:40:50) And uh, and that that that kills me (00:40:53) actually. Um, (00:40:54) >> it's terrible because an environment in (00:40:57) a school classroom can really make or (00:41:00) break a child's life in school. And (00:41:04) school should be somewhere where you (00:41:07) feel looked after, supported, (00:41:09) >> and educated. Um, and it should be a (00:41:13) place where you make friends and people (00:41:14) who are going to have your back. (00:41:15) >> Yeah. (00:41:16) >> Uh, and I didn't have that actually. I (00:41:18) know it sounds like a bit of a sob (00:41:19) story, but I didn't really have that. So (00:41:22) when I look back on my childhood and I (00:41:24) you know sort of think oh god who who (00:41:26) are the friends I've got from you know (00:41:27) from childhood from those days actually (00:41:30) I've got a nice handful of really great (00:41:32) friends who I met much later in my (00:41:34) teenage years um a few people from (00:41:38) secondary school (00:41:40) actually like two and uh and then from (00:41:43) when I started working when I went out (00:41:45) into the world and I was cast in a in a (00:41:47) film when I was 17 years old I started (00:41:50) to really make great friends who became (00:41:52) the keepers (00:41:54) >> um and are still a part of my life (00:41:55) today. (00:41:56) >> Yeah. So important. (00:41:57) >> Yeah. (00:41:57) >> Have you ever done that thing where you (00:41:58) kind of go back and you and you mentally (00:42:00) say, "I'm going to embrace that little (00:42:03) 14-year-old me and I'm going to I'm (00:42:05) going to give her all the love that she (00:42:07) didn't necessarily feel she got." Then I (00:42:09) certainly got a huge amount of love from (00:42:11) my family. That's that's one thing I (00:42:12) will say. And my mom and dad, in spite (00:42:14) of how little we had, were always (00:42:16) absolutely brilliant at, you know, (00:42:18) saying, "Oh, the sun's out. Let's go for (00:42:20) a drive." you know, let's jump in a (00:42:21) river or climb a tree or my parents were (00:42:24) extraordinary at encouraging us to be in (00:42:27) the outside world, which I think is so (00:42:31) important, especially today. Um, so I (00:42:34) felt the love from my family, but yeah, (00:42:35) if I was to go back, yeah, I definitely, (00:42:37) it's interesting actually before I (00:42:39) turned 40, the night before I turned 40 (00:42:41) 10 years ago, I actually had a dream (00:42:44) where I walked into a classroom and saw (00:42:47) my younger self. (00:42:49) >> Whoa. It was really extraordinary. Um, (00:42:52) you're probably going to get loads of (00:42:53) messages from, you know, holistic (00:42:55) practitioners about what that actually (00:42:57) >> meant. But I really did. I walked into a (00:42:59) classroom as myself. I was a grown-up. I (00:43:01) was poised. I was graceful. And I was (00:43:03) just going to see all these children. (00:43:05) And I was sat there. (00:43:06) >> Wow. (00:43:06) >> And it was incredible. (00:43:08) >> That's so moving. (00:43:10) >> It was very moving. And I went and I and (00:43:12) I sat with my younger self. (00:43:14) Mustn't get emotional now because it was (00:43:17) such an amazing dream. But I said to my (00:43:19) younger self, "It's okay. Slow down. (00:43:22) It's okay." It was bizarre (00:43:24) >> and very clear to me. And I don't (00:43:25) particularly remember dreams or even (00:43:27) write them down. I've never written down (00:43:28) a dream. But it was so vivid. Um, and I (00:43:31) do remember thinking, "Oh, yeah. Maybe I (00:43:33) can slow down. Maybe I can just chill (00:43:35) for a bit and enjoy the things that I've (00:43:38) done (00:43:40) about those achievements." It's quite (00:43:42) hard to take a moment and go, "Oh, (00:43:44) >> I did well." (00:43:46) >> Yeah. (00:43:46) >> Well done me. Do you still find that (00:43:48) now? Because I am beyond guilty of that. (00:43:51) I find it terrifying to think that (00:43:54) there's even a week where I'm not (00:43:56) incredibly busy trying to juggle 10 (00:43:58) different jobs. And I and I kind of know (00:44:00) the root of all of my things. Like, oh (00:44:01) yeah, I know I'm feeling that fear again (00:44:04) that everything's it's all going to go (00:44:05) everything's going and I won't have a (00:44:06) job and it's all going to disappear. I (00:44:08) still have a bit of that going on all (00:44:09) these years later. You still have that (00:44:11) drive. Oh, yeah. I still have I still (00:44:13) have all of that. Um, and partly because (00:44:15) I always want to be doing this job, so I (00:44:17) never want people to not keep inviting (00:44:18) me back to the party because I really (00:44:20) like being at the party. It's great fun. (00:44:23) Um, no, I definitely think I definitely (00:44:25) think as women and in this country, I (00:44:27) don't know that we're necessarily very (00:44:29) good at telling each other, "My god, (00:44:30) well done. I was so impressed and proud (00:44:32) of you for doing that." I don't think (00:44:34) we're very good at that. And I also (00:44:36) don't think we're very good at saying (00:44:37) openly. I was really really proud of (00:44:39) myself for that thing I did because, you (00:44:41) know, I was up against it, but I bloody (00:44:43) pulled it off. (00:44:43) >> Very unbritish. (00:44:44) >> Very unbritish. But but I do that. And (00:44:47) and in the last 10 years in particular, (00:44:49) I've been very consciously doing that. (00:44:50) And I think it's because I want to make (00:44:52) sure that my children hear that and (00:44:55) emulate that and know that it's okay to (00:44:57) say I was I was proud of myself with how (00:44:59) I handled that situation or how I spoke (00:45:02) to that person or the job that I did. (00:45:04) Um, I think it's important to show a bit (00:45:07) of, you know, self self-love and (00:45:09) gratitude. (00:45:10) >> Yeah. (00:45:11) >> In in that way and and a bit of (00:45:12) self-ride and subsequently rest and feel (00:45:15) all right about it. (00:45:16) >> Yeah. Well, that I do find hard to do. (00:45:18) The resting and feeling all right about (00:45:19) it, (00:45:20) >> you know, I always think, why am I (00:45:21) sitting down? I need to stand up again. (00:45:23) >> Same. I know. (00:45:24) >> So bad. (00:45:24) >> Yeah, it's terrible. (00:45:25) >> Even having a bath, I'm like, oh, I've (00:45:26) been in here a little bit too long. I (00:45:27) need to get out and do something. Clean (00:45:28) covered out. (00:45:29) >> You have baths. You have time for baths. (00:45:31) >> Very rarely. I'm talking like once every (00:45:33) two weeks. I'm like, (00:45:34) >> I can't get in. I can't sit there. It (00:45:36) all takes too long. (00:45:37) >> Things to do. (00:45:38) >> Or even running it. (00:45:39) >> Oh, it takes too long. [laughter] Really (00:45:41) like, oh, come on. Oh, now the water's (00:45:44) gone cold. Now it's gone cold. Ned, the (00:45:46) water's gone cold again. [laughter] So, (00:45:49) I know the answer to this question is (00:45:50) not going to be in the bath. Where is (00:45:53) your happy place? (00:45:55) >> No, it's not in the bath. An ice bath, (00:45:57) different matter. (00:45:58) >> Oh, are you into the ice bathing? (00:45:59) >> Oh, yeah. God, yeah. It's It's so (00:46:01) fantastic. Are you Is that a daily (00:46:03) thing? (00:46:03) >> Uh, no, it's not really daily just (00:46:05) because I can't always figure out a way (00:46:07) to pull it off daily. Um, certainly cold (00:46:10) water, very cold water. The colder the (00:46:13) better. It makes you feel fantastic and (00:46:15) it's impossible. It's impossible to (00:46:18) regret it. You can never regret getting (00:46:20) in the cold water even for 30 seconds. (00:46:22) >> Um, I'm not sure I would say that that's (00:46:25) my happy place. My real happy place (00:46:30) is there's a couple of different ones (00:46:32) really, but quite honestly, anywhere (00:46:35) where it's me, Ned, and the kids, and (00:46:39) it's just us, and we're all in the same (00:46:41) space, that is somewhere I do feel (00:46:44) incredibly happy. Another place that I (00:46:46) feel very, very happy is walking through (00:46:51) a like a snowy forest. (00:46:53) >> Oh, yeah. There's something about the (00:46:56) stillness and the silence and the beauty (00:46:59) of it that almost (00:47:02) gives me hope in the time before this (00:47:05) time. And what I mean by that is not (00:47:08) Neanderthal times and cavemen and etc. (00:47:11) Not that at all, but just the time (00:47:14) before this digital age when things were (00:47:17) simpler and life was quieter. And I do (00:47:22) have an iPhone. I still grapple with the (00:47:24) fact that I have one. Am talking very (00:47:26) seriously about getting rid of it in the (00:47:28) new year. But even I and I don't have (00:47:31) social media. I do find myself just (00:47:34) scrolling too long on that news page. (00:47:35) You know, why am I playing Wordscapes? (00:47:38) Why am I like, [laughter] you know, wh (00:47:40) why? I don't want to be staring at this (00:47:43) stuff. I don't want it at all. Um, and (00:47:47) so there's something about the stillness (00:47:49) of being in snow, in nature in that way. (00:47:52) Not walking alone, always with somebody (00:47:54) else. I love conversation. And also long (00:47:58) walks with my family, with my kids. (00:48:01) Those conversations have always been (00:48:04) fantastic and a really big part of our (00:48:06) lives is where we share a lot of (00:48:08) creativity and story ideas. Joe would (00:48:11) share a lot of his ideas for Goodbye (00:48:13) June on long walks together and uh my (00:48:17) kids have tested me on lines on long (00:48:19) walks, you know, and now the same thing (00:48:21) happens with them. (00:48:22) >> Yeah. (00:48:22) >> Um (00:48:23) >> and so there's there's something about (00:48:25) being outside walking (00:48:29) um that is very special to me and makes (00:48:32) me happy and it doesn't matter what the (00:48:33) weather's doing, but preferably cold. (00:48:36) >> Same. Yeah. (00:48:37) >> I love a good old ramble. Oh, it's (00:48:38) heaven. (00:48:39) >> There's nothing better. Gorgeous. (00:48:41) >> Well, I'm so thrilled to have spoken to (00:48:43) you today and how exciting that Goodbye (00:48:46) June is going to be released into the (00:48:47) world for everybody to see. (00:48:49) >> I know Joe and I are like, "Oh my god, (00:48:51) people are going to see it." (00:48:52) >> It's so exciting. (00:48:53) >> It's quite it's it's a it's a very (00:48:54) exciting and uh and bizarre feeling and (00:48:57) I do feel proud of it and I feel proud (00:49:00) of ourselves. I feel proud as a woman to (00:49:03) have done this. Um, it sort of feels (00:49:05) like it marks the beginning of maybe a (00:49:08) new chapter in my life. Um, and makes me (00:49:11) feel like, yeah, woohoo, bring on my (00:49:13) 50s, baby. (00:49:14) >> It's um, yeah, it it feels exciting. (00:49:17) >> Too, right, well, look, good luck with (00:49:19) all of it and thank you so much for (00:49:20) today. (00:49:21) >> Pleasure. Thank you for having me.