Jimmy Carr: “There’s A Crisis Going On With Men!” (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) I remember the day I remember being at (00:00:02) home and and getting the news and (00:00:04) laughing and crying and then it hits you (00:00:07) I was very (00:00:09) uh very upset by it and he was (00:00:15) just just so funny you a fantastic crowd (00:00:18) thank you very much thank (00:00:19) [Applause] (00:00:23) you would you please welcome Jimmy one (00:00:26) of the most respected and best love (00:00:28) comedians in the world (00:00:30) the king of on liners okay strap in (00:00:33) everyone you ready I'm going to start (00:00:35) teaching comedy because it teaches you (00:00:37) how to come up with original thoughts to (00:00:39) find your voice you'll be chasing (00:00:41) impostor syndrome and it's great you (00:00:42) should feel it every 18 months you (00:00:44) learned that failure is one of the great (00:00:46) gifts of standup comedy and to learn how (00:00:47) to lose gracefully it's a good test of (00:00:49) how much you want something how do we (00:00:51) know what we actually want I love what I (00:00:53) do now but often question whether I (00:00:54) should go be like a DJ D what I can (00:00:56) answer that question for you no you (00:00:58) shouldn't I know everything do you think (00:01:01) oh maybe we can make a few quid out of (00:01:02) this no as a guy that's touring the (00:01:04) world 300 days a year what advice would (00:01:06) you give me on how to be a better (00:01:07) Communicator speak at 92 beats a minute (00:01:10) when you look at the great public (00:01:10) speakers they all seem to be hitting (00:01:12) that rhythm of 92 beats a minute anxiety (00:01:15) it's the flip side of creativity so I (00:01:17) think the cure for managing my anxiety (00:01:19) is hang on the Netflix special drops (00:01:22) today so I imagine I'm being canceled (00:01:24) right now how have you come to deal with (00:01:25) that so the next time I get canceled (00:01:27) I've got a plan here's what I'm going to (00:01:28) do I'm going to say (00:01:31) congratulations diio gang we've made (00:01:33) some progress 63% of you that listen to (00:01:36) this podcast regularly don't subscribe (00:01:38) which is down from (00:01:40) 69% our goal is 50% so if you've ever (00:01:45) liked any of the videos we've posted if (00:01:46) you like this channel can you do me a (00:01:48) quick favor and hit the Subscribe button (00:01:50) it helps this channel more than you know (00:01:51) and the bigger the channel gets as (00:01:53) you've seen the bigger the guest get (00:01:55) thank you and enjoy this episode (00:01:58) [Music] (00:02:00) Jimmy it's great to be back what have (00:02:03) you been up to I've been you know I've (00:02:05) been around I've been working I very (00:02:06) much enjoyed this last time and I'm kind (00:02:09) of I was a bit nervous coming back (00:02:12) because it's a Big Show and I I really (00:02:15) enjoy it I really enjoy listening so I (00:02:17) I've given it quite a lot of thought (00:02:18) I've kind of made loads of notes and uh (00:02:21) you know here's what I'll kick off with (00:02:23) I've been thinking a lot about gratitude (00:02:25) as the mother of all virtues and I think (00:02:29) I'm right in saying this I think you (00:02:31) would give me everything you own in 25 (00:02:35) years time to be the age you are now and (00:02:38) as healthy as you are right now and I (00:02:41) think it's a really interesting (00:02:43) meditation to think about right if you (00:02:46) had a time machine if you were 30 years (00:02:48) in the future if you could be this (00:02:50) healthy and feel this good and be this (00:02:54) age you give everything materially that (00:02:57) you own in 30 years time to be back here (00:03:00) and just that just to take that end for (00:03:02) a minute just to take a moment to think (00:03:03) about (00:03:05) wow this is amazing what does that (00:03:08) Inspire in terms of Behavioral change in (00:03:09) the moment well I think it's that thing (00:03:11) of like I try and I think gratitude is (00:03:13) such an important virtue um and it's (00:03:16) people talk about gratitude practice and (00:03:18) it does take some practice and it often (00:03:20) takes like it's a it's like a way of (00:03:22) reframing the way that you see the world (00:03:25) so I think that we suffer in the west a (00:03:27) little bit from Life dysmorphia do you (00:03:29) hear a lot about body dysmorphia gender (00:03:31) dysmorphia we've got life dysmorphia a (00:03:34) lot of people think their life is (00:03:36) terrible because there's kind of the the (00:03:38) honic treadmill you get used to how (00:03:41) great your life is no one had a hot (00:03:43) shower until 50 years ago so I Tred and (00:03:46) do this thing when you stand in a hot (00:03:47) shower George Mack my friend pointed (00:03:48) this out to me went well look when you (00:03:50) stand in a hot shower just for a moment (00:03:51) just go well no one that you admire from (00:03:54) 100 years ago had this simple pleasure (00:03:56) in life and when you look at the world (00:03:59) that we live in we we're like you're (00:04:01) doing there been 100 billion people ever (00:04:04) right we are in the top top percentile (00:04:08) in terms of the luck that we have had (00:04:11) the the lives like the the the calorific (00:04:13) intake that we just take for granted the (00:04:15) fact that our children don't die uh you (00:04:17) know in the first year the the modern (00:04:19) medicine and our lives and our the (00:04:21) entertainment that we get we're living (00:04:23) like kings and yet life has never been (00:04:27) objectively better and subjectively (00:04:29) worse (00:04:30) because the nature of humanity is our (00:04:33) desires are memetic so we've got this (00:04:35) thing where we we sort of you know how (00:04:37) happy are you well it's it's your (00:04:39) quality of life minus Envy that's how (00:04:43) happy you are and it's easy to look at (00:04:47) everyone else and how they're doing and (00:04:50) and not take pleasure in what you (00:04:52) have it's funny because there's a cost (00:04:54) to a hot shower isn't there and that's (00:04:57) exactly what you're describing there (00:04:58) because subjectively I think lot of (00:05:00) people don't feel like they are very (00:05:02) happy and I think objectively if you (00:05:04) look at some of the stats around (00:05:05) suicidality and depression and mental (00:05:07) health it doesn't appear that people are (00:05:09) any happier so even though we have sort (00:05:11) of materially improved Our Lives we have (00:05:14) hot showers now there's a cost to the (00:05:16) hot shower in the sense that um maybe (00:05:19) it's made life too easy maybe it's made (00:05:22) life too comfortable maybe we're in a (00:05:23) comfort crisis yeah I mean there's (00:05:25) there's a there's a lot to be said on (00:05:27) that I mean it's very I suppose it's (00:05:28) very tough love but you can't have an (00:05:31) easy life in a Great Character Show show (00:05:34) me a trust fund kid that inherited a (00:05:35) bunch of money and I'll show you someone (00:05:37) mentally (00:05:39) tortured it's it's true right everyone's (00:05:42) like your your struggle what where (00:05:44) you've come from in Plymouth uh you know (00:05:47) in living in poverty to now having stuff (00:05:50) isn't fun getting stuff is fun right (00:05:53) it's not the pursuit happiness it's the (00:05:55) happiness of the pursuit right it's it's (00:05:58) just it's that thing and it's not like (00:06:00) you know that the self-help it's not the (00:06:01) journey it's the destination it's not (00:06:02) either the journey or the destination (00:06:04) it's who you become on the journey and (00:06:07) here's the terrible thing about life (00:06:08) it's self- (00:06:10) assignment like you know there's school (00:06:12) and college and then you get dropped (00:06:14) into the the real world at some point (00:06:16) and look and you go well you you have to (00:06:18) decide what you're going to do and you (00:06:19) can take an easy path and it's it's (00:06:22) ultimately less fun it's short money or (00:06:25) you take a hard path and you give (00:06:26) yourself a challenge and it's great and (00:06:29) I think you know a lot of the times it's (00:06:31) that thing of like it's hard to do (00:06:34) that's a it's it's life is life is (00:06:36) really really tough those are tough (00:06:37) things to hear and it's it's easy for us (00:06:42) because we're sort of on that road but (00:06:44) then you know the thing I love about (00:06:45) this podcast is you're sort of trying to (00:06:47) there's so much kind of wisdom in it so (00:06:49) many stories that you're sort of you're (00:06:50) giving people this kind of road map for (00:06:52) okay well make your life a little bit (00:06:55) harder in the short term and and and get (00:06:58) somewhere I mean I I didn't really get (00:07:01) what religion was until comparatively (00:07:03) late in life like the idea that God is a (00:07:06) proxy for the (00:07:09) future right so so so God represents the (00:07:11) future so work hard now for a better (00:07:14) life in heaven right so that's it's kind (00:07:16) of it's the same as all self-help like (00:07:20) okay so so (00:07:22) sacrifice the present for the future (00:07:24) work is kind of the same it's a (00:07:25) sacrifice of the present for something (00:07:27) better in the future that's like it's a (00:07:30) it's it's an interesting thing to sort (00:07:31) of think around isn't it that like what (00:07:33) are you g to do now so I've got this um (00:07:35) Chris Williamson you know Chris from (00:07:37) he's a really good friend of mine he's (00:07:38) lovely guy and we came up with this idea (00:07:40) so me him and George Mack were chatting (00:07:42) about what what should you do today that (00:07:46) you tomorrow would be happy you did so (00:07:49) sort of 24 hours in the future how best (00:07:52) to live because people sort of set like (00:07:53) oh well I'm going to do something for 5 (00:07:55) years you know so it's this huge goal (00:07:58) but you won't rise to your goal (00:08:00) you fall to your systems right so that (00:08:02) thing of like what could you do (00:08:04) tomorrow what could you do today rather (00:08:06) that you'd be happy you did tomorrow (00:08:08) whether it's the food you eat the (00:08:09) exercise you take the work you do what (00:08:12) do you do oh right I went to the gym (00:08:13) yesterday I feel great like a a little (00:08:15) bit of Doms or oh I wrote 10 jokes and (00:08:19) tonight I'm on stage trying those jokes (00:08:21) oh well I'm thanks me (00:08:23) yesterday I you know I did something (00:08:26) that was good so you can kind of time's (00:08:28) going to pass whatever you do and you (00:08:30) can give yourself gifts in the future (00:08:32) you can be rich and you can have a (00:08:35) six-pack and you can be successful and (00:08:37) you can be in a happy long-term (00:08:38) relationship with a beautiful family you (00:08:41) can give yourself those those gifts but (00:08:43) that there's some tough times in the (00:08:44) present to give yourself that gift in (00:08:46) the future something I really wanted to (00:08:48) ask you about is you've climbed to the (00:08:51) very peak of your profession like you (00:08:53) really are generational Talent this guy (00:08:54) that's what it's true it's true you (00:08:56) really you really have you think about (00:08:58) where you started off at sort of 25 (00:09:00) years old in your mid 20s when you (00:09:01) decided to leave that I think (00:09:03) advertising business and pursue comedy (00:09:05) like where you are now really is must be (00:09:09) the Dre a dream you like never really (00:09:11) imagined could come true you're at the (00:09:13) very peak of your profession and I think (00:09:15) at the peak of your profession I wonder (00:09:17) sometimes if you wonder more than other (00:09:20) people who are still on their Journey up (00:09:22) that mountain what the point in all of (00:09:23) this is well I think that's that's (00:09:26) incredibly interesting okay so there's a (00:09:27) couple of things to unpick there so you (00:09:29) never feel like you're at the top of (00:09:30) your profession because you're a you're (00:09:33) standing on the shoulders of giants in (00:09:35) whatever industry you're in so you might (00:09:37) think oh he's doing he's doing very well (00:09:39) uh you know he's got a Netflix special (00:09:40) and a new tour and all of the you know (00:09:42) all of the things but then inside you're (00:09:44) going well I'm as good as the next joke (00:09:45) I write so the the thing that I try and (00:09:47) do is be quite stoic I'm trying to be (00:09:50) I'm trying to do less better I'm trying (00:09:52) to just be a stand-up com the world (00:09:54) ordered a standup comedian and I'm (00:09:56) trying to honor that right that's what (00:09:58) people want right go out jokes tell (00:10:00) jokes push the boundaries great that's (00:10:03) your little role in the world do that so (00:10:05) the more I focus on that the the the (00:10:07) better it gets more people come to the (00:10:10) show it's that thing of like I suppose (00:10:13) the whole of the world is built on (00:10:15) incentives right so you you you put down (00:10:18) sugar you get (00:10:19) ants you tell jokes you deliver on a (00:10:21) show and people come and they enjoy it (00:10:24) and then they come back next time what'd (00:10:25) you get out of that I mean the (00:10:27) self-actualization I suppose the idea of (00:10:29) going well I do this thing that I I very (00:10:31) much enjoy comedy because it's an (00:10:34) immediate feedback loop it's a it's a (00:10:37) very lucky business to be in because I (00:10:39) don't have to wait like I don't have to (00:10:41) discuss with someone ah do you think (00:10:43) this joke's going to work or not what do (00:10:45) you think do you think it's too (00:10:46) offensive or do you think ah tell it (00:10:49) test it it's it's kind of it's the (00:10:52) Silicon Valley the um you know uh the (00:10:55) the Dual testing is is this better than (00:10:57) this this or this I'm like an an ition (00:11:00) like just is this this or this or this (00:11:02) or this this wording or this wording and (00:11:03) the audience is a genius the audience (00:11:05) tell me what works so it's it's kind of (00:11:09) yeah it's it's it's a joyful thing to (00:11:11) kind of to write a new show and then to (00:11:13) put something on the on the Shelf like (00:11:15) the new Netflix special Natural Born (00:11:16) Killer now streaming on Netflix is is (00:11:19) like it's it feels like I've given (00:11:22) people irrefutable proof I am who I say (00:11:24) I am and that feels really good like (00:11:27) that's what I do that's better than the (00:11:30) last one and last time I was on the show (00:11:33) I talked about wanting to write longer (00:11:34) bits longer form like I I've got a great (00:11:36) fast ball but I haven't got a knuckle (00:11:38) ball and I wanted to try and write some (00:11:41) different bits that maybe made some (00:11:42) points and I went away and I did it and (00:11:45) for better for worse it's there and I I (00:11:47) gave it a shot and I think it's a better (00:11:49) more rounded comedy special than the (00:11:51) previous one and I and I don't hate the (00:11:53) previous one it's got really good jokes (00:11:55) in it it's really funny I like it and (00:11:57) then the new tour I think will be better (00:11:59) again I think you can see you see (00:12:01) progress and what are you chasing you're (00:12:04) not chasing the the thing it's your (00:12:07) you're enjoying the process it's it's (00:12:09) being so I don't think you get (00:12:12) self-esteem from the six-pack you get at (00:12:14) the gym I think you get self-esteem from (00:12:16) being the kind of person that goes to (00:12:17) the gym every day and I don't think you (00:12:20) get anything from the from the show from (00:12:22) having done the Netflix special but (00:12:24) being the person that put that together (00:12:26) is the that's that's the enjoyable thing (00:12:30) and you get you get kind of better at it (00:12:31) you you know the light the weight (00:12:33) doesn't get lighter your back gets (00:12:34) stronger I think about this with myself (00:12:36) a lot I look at what I'm doing in (00:12:37) business and stuff and with the podcast (00:12:39) and other things and I go there are (00:12:40) moments where my brain will ask myself (00:12:42) the question like what's the end goal (00:12:44) here because I've got the things that I (00:12:46) materially need need to be happy I could (00:12:48) retire and just go chill on a boat but (00:12:50) for some reason I'm sort of torturing (00:12:53) myself in many respects but torturing (00:12:55) yourself very hard what you're doing (00:12:58) you're giving yourself a character (00:13:00) because you're giving yourself a (00:13:01) challenge right we all need the (00:13:03) challenge so it's like you know with any (00:13:05) kind of mythological story it's the (00:13:08) hero's journey and you're on a journey (00:13:10) to to to do something to become (00:13:12) something right and you what's your what (00:13:13) are you doing here what's your role in (00:13:15) the world but going and sitting on a (00:13:17) beach isn't anything like you there's a (00:13:19) reason holidays are are two weeks it's (00:13:21) so you have three days of going ah we (00:13:25) should get back like holiday should be (00:13:27) 10 days but somehow we we' made it two (00:13:30) weeks and that's great because it allows (00:13:32) people sort of three days of going you (00:13:33) know what I've got to get back to work (00:13:34) I've got to do something I like that (00:13:36) thing of like the top of your profession (00:13:38) well you'll always be looking ahead (00:13:40) right at someone that's you know if it's (00:13:42) for you probably Joe Rogan you go well (00:13:44) Joe's got the biggest podcast in the (00:13:45) world and what are you number two and (00:13:47) you and so you're you've got something (00:13:49) to aim at and even if you're number one (00:13:51) then you're going to go yeah but radio (00:13:53) still bigger so huh like that thing if (00:13:56) you'll be chasing something giving (00:13:58) yourself maybe an artificial (00:14:00) um goal in the future but it's a it's a (00:14:04) it's just a um something to point you in (00:14:07) the right direction is there a little (00:14:09) bit of unhappiness sort of voluntary (00:14:11) unhappiness involved in wanting to that (00:14:14) thing off in the future you think you (00:14:16) know because if there's I sat with a (00:14:17) psychologist a psychiatrist the other (00:14:19) day who was on the podcast and he said (00:14:21) if you live your life continually (00:14:22) wanting you're essentially deferring (00:14:24) your happiness and replacing it with (00:14:26) sort of discontent in the moment well (00:14:27) this is I mean listen even the worst (00:14:30) people say great things chairman ma said (00:14:33) uh you can't smell the roses from a (00:14:34) galloping horse so when you're moving at (00:14:37) that kind of speed you don't take any (00:14:39) time to enjoy life right so you have to (00:14:42) just just enjoy the moment but you enjoy (00:14:44) these conversations you enjoy the thing (00:14:47) that you do now the hard work is a lot (00:14:49) of the stuff around it you know the (00:14:50) travel and the the admin or whatever but (00:14:52) you have to love the whole job you can't (00:14:54) just go well I want that bit because in (00:14:56) the same way that people are jealous of (00:14:57) you there'll be other podcasters that (00:14:58) are very jealous of what you've got but (00:15:00) they're jealous of what you've got (00:15:01) they're not jealous of how you got it no (00:15:04) comedians are jealous of how I got it no (00:15:07) one sits there and goes oh I wish I (00:15:08) could sit for 10 hours a day and write (00:15:10) jokes oh they think I'd want to play (00:15:12) that venue or I'd love to have that (00:15:14) Netflix special but they don't sit there (00:15:16) going well what pathology would you need (00:15:18) in your head to write that many on (00:15:20) liners and to care that much about it (00:15:22) who would you have to be to do that and (00:15:25) we're all chasing something right I (00:15:27) think we're chasing impostor syndrome I (00:15:29) think imposter syndrome's got a bad (00:15:31) reputation and it's great you should (00:15:32) feel it every 18 (00:15:34) months as you level up you should feel (00:15:37) like do I belong here right this show is (00:15:41) much bigger than it was when I was last (00:15:42) on congratulations you why is it bigger (00:15:45) well because you pushed yourself and you (00:15:46) worked harder right and now sometimes (00:15:49) you feel like oh my God I'm interviewing (00:15:50) this (00:15:51) person great don't feel comfortable (00:15:54) lovely as soon as you start to feel (00:15:56) comfortable you need to push yourself a (00:15:57) little bit further there's a great story (00:15:59) my friend told me this a very Nam droppy (00:16:01) story you mind good all right Brandon (00:16:03) Flowers told me this story so he's (00:16:04) filming a video with Lou Reed like 10 (00:16:06) years ago they did a song with Lou Reed (00:16:08) which is preall for the killers and (00:16:10) they're filming this video and they're (00:16:12) backstage they're in the they're in the (00:16:13) uh the The Green Room and Lou Reed's (00:16:17) there he's got leather trousers on he's (00:16:18) got a leather jacket and a vest he's got (00:16:21) mirrored (00:16:22) sunglasses he's Lou Reed and he looks in (00:16:25) the mirror and Brandon sort of sees him (00:16:26) just like checking himself out and Lou (00:16:29) re just goes I wish I was that (00:16:34) guy Lou Reed's got imposter syndrome and (00:16:37) he's Lou Reed there's nothing to matter (00:16:39) with it you know a guy that's been a (00:16:40) rock star and a legend for 40 years is (00:16:42) still feeling that thing of like going I (00:16:43) don't feel like I'm that guy great (00:16:46) that's how you should feel so if you (00:16:48) haven't felt imposter syndrome in the (00:16:49) last 12 18 months you think there's (00:16:51) something probably what push yourself a (00:16:53) little bit hard I mean it depends it (00:16:55) depends what you want to do you can have (00:16:56) an easy life some people you know work (00:16:59) to live some people live to work it's (00:17:01) it's there's different ways of doing (00:17:03) things it's not necessarily you don't (00:17:05) necessarily need to push yourself in (00:17:06) that way like you're listening to us and (00:17:09) and you know there might be a (00:17:10) psychiatrist listening going well these (00:17:11) guys are pathologically ambitious this (00:17:14) isn't healthy they should just be you (00:17:16) know chilling out and maybe they have a (00:17:19) good (00:17:20) point I look at your work ethic and I (00:17:23) just feel like I've never seen anything (00:17:25) like it for someone who is incredibly (00:17:27) successful I look at your tour dates and (00:17:29) I'm like this guy spends how many dates (00:17:31) a year on stage maybe 300 shows a year (00:17:34) something like that 300 shows a year (00:17:35) well most people turn up to work every (00:17:37) day don't they I (00:17:39) mean you know it's also most people like (00:17:43) get get your average listener to the (00:17:44) show and go okay do you want to swap (00:17:46) lives you you have to work for two hours (00:17:48) a day but You' be telling jokes to (00:17:49) people and it's joyful it's what what (00:17:53) looks like work to other people and (00:17:56) feels like play to you there you go (00:17:58) there's there say like as a really happy (00:18:00) life that people go oh my God he worked (00:18:02) so hard and I'm going you're joking (00:18:04) aren't you you are literally joking and (00:18:06) then you go oh the tour dates like this (00:18:07) last week I was in I know what South (00:18:09) Africa Paris Istanbul Budapest (00:18:13) Vienna what a life what because really (00:18:16) that's the other thing about life people (00:18:17) don't want to live longer they want more (00:18:20) memories and and really how do you get (00:18:22) more memories well it's it's doing novel (00:18:25) interesting things so if you commute to (00:18:27) work every day the same commute for a (00:18:29) year you don't have 300 memories of that (00:18:32) commute you've got one memory right but (00:18:35) if you do different things every day you (00:18:36) go to different places you talk to (00:18:37) different people you you experience the (00:18:39) what that's a fantastic that Variety in (00:18:41) life gives you more memories more life (00:18:45) you pointed at your head a second ago (00:18:47) and said we must be pathological in some (00:18:49) way yeah do you think you are yeah yeah (00:18:52) I'm not sure I'm the I don't know I mean (00:18:54) I'm not sure I'm not entirely sure if (00:18:56) comedy isn't a uh some sort of low-level (00:18:58) Mental Health issue that you can turn (00:18:59) into a career I it's you know it's like (00:19:02) for most people it seems quite strange (00:19:03) to want to stand on stage and uh and (00:19:06) tell jokes I think it's it sounds (00:19:08) terrifying to a lot of people but I find (00:19:09) it very very fun Have you ever figured (00:19:11) out why you are wide in such a way not (00:19:15) really I mean I suppose that thing of it (00:19:17) goes back to Childhood it goes back to (00:19:19) um my mother was an incredibly funny (00:19:22) Larger than Life Irish woman I was very (00:19:23) very close to her I believe they call it (00:19:25) in meshed when you have like a very (00:19:27) close relationship with your mother um (00:19:29) uh and she suffered with uh depression (00:19:32) and I didn't know you don't know as a (00:19:34) kid your house is just your house you (00:19:35) think it's normal right so if your mom's (00:19:37) in a dressing gown when you get home (00:19:39) from school and she hasn't got herself (00:19:40) together you just think well that's what (00:19:41) mom's are like so my whole childhood was (00:19:44) aimed at making her laugh especially (00:19:45) when (00:19:47) driving fun thing to do make your mom (00:19:50) laugh grab the steering wheel try and (00:19:52) you know have you had to unpack that to (00:19:55) stop that getting in the way whatever (00:19:58) that driving is getting in the way of (00:20:00) your adult life cuz I've thought about (00:20:01) that a lot myself I think the things (00:20:03) that have driven me here aren't (00:20:05) necessarily the same things that are (00:20:07) going to help me succeed in the next (00:20:09) phase of life whether it's being a (00:20:10) father like I know you you know you've (00:20:12) you had a kid I think in (00:20:13) 2019 um or whether it's being in a (00:20:15) romantic relationship I've had to kind (00:20:17) of really work hard to (00:20:19) unpack things so that I can succeed in a (00:20:21) new season listen I'm not a therapist (00:20:24) but here's what I would say I think (00:20:25) you're going to have to make a (00:20:26) transition from looking at uh measurable (00:20:30) metrics to immeasurable metrics I think (00:20:33) you've got an amazing resume you've got (00:20:35) an incredible CV of stuff you've done (00:20:37) and achievements and stuff you can point (00:20:39) at and and the the amount of views on (00:20:41) the website and the money that you've (00:20:42) made and the businesses You' started (00:20:44) great and I think the immeasurable stuff (00:20:47) is going to become much more important (00:20:49) so George Mack has this kind of theory (00:20:51) on we trade in life the measurable for (00:20:55) the immeasurable so you trade work for I (00:20:58) know time with parents can't really (00:21:00) measure time with parents and it's kind (00:21:03) of it's tough to lunch with your parents (00:21:05) as opposed to the job and the thing and (00:21:06) the work and that I'm busy I'm busy I'm (00:21:08) busy and you only notice it when it goes (00:21:10) to (00:21:12) zero so mom dies and you go well I'll (00:21:14) never see her again what wouldn't you (00:21:16) give now for another meal another time (00:21:19) another thing so you go trying to find (00:21:21) that balance in life and I think (00:21:23) parenting and being a father is about (00:21:27) that isn't it it's about that (00:21:29) it's about trading the the measurable (00:21:31) for the immeasurable Warren Farrell (00:21:34) tells a great story do you know Warren (00:21:35) Farrell it's like the myth of male power (00:21:37) I think a lot of his writing's been used (00:21:39) by nefariously by people sort of that (00:21:41) are a bit anyway he's a very interesting (00:21:44) guy and he's he's very uh authentic um (00:21:47) and he told this story I heard him tell (00:21:49) this story he said uh said this guy came (00:21:51) to me and very successful man you know (00:21:55) head of head of a business that makes (00:21:56) millions really doing very well and he (00:21:59) said he was unhappy because he had (00:22:04) worked all the way through his son's (00:22:07) childhood and he didn't he hadn't bonded (00:22:09) with his son because he'd just been away (00:22:12) at (00:22:13) work and he went went to see Warren (00:22:16) farell and he's a you know psychiatrist (00:22:17) or whatever and he said uh okay what are (00:22:19) you going to do he said well I'm going (00:22:20) to I'm going to give up my job for 5 (00:22:23) years and I'm going to be at home with (00:22:25) my kid get I'm [ __ ] it I'm not doing any (00:22:29) of that I'm going to be with my kid for (00:22:32) 5 years just being that moment and he (00:22:36) did it and he was very happy that he did (00:22:39) it it was John (00:22:44) lenon and no matter how important you (00:22:47) think your job is you're not John (00:22:51) lenon you know I'm sure he could have (00:22:53) done great things in those 5 years but (00:22:55) you think oh my God I'm so glad he did (00:22:57) that I'm so glad (00:22:59) cuz of what an incredible artist he was (00:23:01) he'd given us so much and that he had (00:23:03) those years for himself and that's for (00:23:05) him I mean I I imagine he's kid I (00:23:08) imagine Shawn Lennon's very glad he did (00:23:09) that but he got that (00:23:12) time and I imagine he didn't regret (00:23:16) it and and his life was cut short (00:23:19) tragically and you think it's even more (00:23:21) powerful when you consider that that he (00:23:24) didn't put it off he didn't go well I'll (00:23:26) do that I'll do I I'll get to I'll get (00:23:28) to a million subscribers and then I'll (00:23:29) do that I'll sell a few more records and (00:23:31) then one more tour and then I'll spend (00:23:33) time with the family he he did it isn't (00:23:35) that (00:23:37) beautiful there's a lot of emotion in (00:23:39) your face when you tell that story it's (00:23:41) beautiful story isn't it I mean I could (00:23:44) when you think about it you go that's (00:23:46) kind of that's life isn't it and the and (00:23:48) mortality I think is something we don't (00:23:50) think about enough right I love that the (00:23:53) Muslim uh uh phrase for death uh the (00:23:57) certainty (00:24:00) you know we're in this brief shaft of (00:24:02) Light Between Two Oceans of (00:24:04) Darkness everyone always thinks about (00:24:06) the tail end right and thinks about what (00:24:08) happens after you die Mark Twain had (00:24:10) this great quote you know we we um he (00:24:13) said uh he said I wasn't alive for (00:24:15) billions of years before my birth and it (00:24:17) didn't inconvenience me in the (00:24:21) least but this brief shaft of Lights (00:24:23) kind of it's magnificent isn't it I (00:24:27) think so I think it can (00:24:29) be this idea of um you know depression (00:24:33) is essentially thinking about yourself (00:24:34) too much you last time we spoke on the (00:24:37) podcast you talked about I would say (00:24:40) yeah sorry that that feels to me maybe a (00:24:42) little bit too harsh because I think (00:24:44) people suffer with depression and that's (00:24:46) a it's a disease and it's incredibly (00:24:49) serious and we think of suicide as being (00:24:52) something that stands alone it's not (00:24:54) it's a symptom of a disease called (00:24:55) depression right so it's the it's the (00:24:57) permanent solution to attemp problem you (00:25:00) don't want to feel this way anymore but (00:25:03) actually you don't want to feel nothing (00:25:05) anymore uh you like to feel better so (00:25:08) it's that thing of like I don't think we (00:25:09) talk about it enough but I think that (00:25:10) thing of you know thinking about (00:25:12) yourself all the time I think just leads (00:25:14) to a can lead to a Melancholy a sadness (00:25:17) I think depression is maybe a slightly (00:25:19) separate thing not to nickp but it feels (00:25:21) like it feels like that's a disease yeah (00:25:24) and there's also a lot of sadness in the (00:25:25) world MH and you're lucky if you're sad (00:25:29) because if you're if you're sad it's (00:25:30) circumstantial and you can do something (00:25:32) about it you know are you depressed (00:25:34) because you have serotonin imbalance in (00:25:36) your head and it's a heritable trait or (00:25:39) are you sad because your life hasn't (00:25:41) worked out the way you want it to work (00:25:42) out well if that's the case the latter (00:25:45) you're in luck because you can change (00:25:46) that it does feel like there's a bit of (00:25:48) a crisis going on within young men at (00:25:50) the moment and I think your new show on (00:25:52) Netflix shines a light on many of the (00:25:54) difficulties that young men are facing I (00:25:57) I was really excited to talk to about (00:25:58) this particular topic cuz I've been (00:25:59) trying to arrive at a position myself on (00:26:02) why so many young men appear to be lost (00:26:05) and suicidality has increased and (00:26:07) there's you know these (00:26:09) new masculine influences or masculine (00:26:13) influencers that are really rounding up (00:26:15) this cohort of young men who who are we (00:26:17) talking about and Tate Andrew Tates of (00:26:19) the world well Andrew T interesting (00:26:20) isn't he because um who made the I think (00:26:22) John meany made the observation Trump is (00:26:24) a poor person's idea of what a rich (00:26:26) person looks like yeah got gold Taps and (00:26:29) I think s of Andrew Tate is like a (00:26:31) 14-year-old boy's idea of what (00:26:34) masculinity might look like like it's (00:26:36) really it's it's and and of course (00:26:38) nature abor a vacuum and there's a real (00:26:42) vacuum for um Elders like we now we (00:26:46) don't learn how to shave from our (00:26:47) fathers it's a YouTube video and so you (00:26:50) lose something in that in that bonding (00:26:52) so there's a big bit in the new show (00:26:54) where I give a young guy an audience (00:26:56) member a pretty tough time like we have (00:26:58) the talk and I give them advice on how (00:27:03) to uh be with a woman and it's I'm not (00:27:06) wrong about anything it's really funny (00:27:08) and it's really rude but I'm not wrong (00:27:10) about stuff it's like it's about consent (00:27:13) and it's it's I think it's really it's (00:27:14) really good because it's I've sugared (00:27:16) the pill of the message because people (00:27:17) don't want to talk about it people go (00:27:19) it's obvious what consent is yeah not to (00:27:20) 17-year-old boys or girls it's like (00:27:23) actually what what does that look like (00:27:25) and how should that be so it's uh yeah (00:27:27) it's a it's a really fun routine really (00:27:28) fun routine to perform and to write what (00:27:30) is it to be a man these days cuz it's (00:27:32) quite confusing in ter even the (00:27:34) conversation around like chivalry and (00:27:36) understanding you know well people talk (00:27:37) about toxic masculinity and easy fix be (00:27:40) a gentleman be a (00:27:42) mench that's it this is done be a (00:27:45) gentleman be a mench you know a (00:27:48) gentleman is never rude by (00:27:49) accident it's Christopher Hitchin line (00:27:52) great I I don't know I mean my thing (00:27:55) about young men today if I was going to (00:27:56) give young men advice it would be (00:27:59) get the right drugs and the real thing (00:28:03) right in real life live in real life (00:28:07) right so why young men are obsessed by (00:28:08) video games right obsessed they're (00:28:10) spending hours and hours and hours (00:28:12) online playing video games why well (00:28:14) that's a proxy for career right video (00:28:17) games you think about the levels of (00:28:18) video games and what people do on video (00:28:20) games it's that's a proxy that's like a (00:28:22) uh it's a it's a substitute for the (00:28:24) career that they're not having and then (00:28:26) they spend a lot of time you know (00:28:28) fapping to to Pornhub or uPorn or (00:28:32) whatever and that's a proxy for sex and (00:28:37) my thing would be George Orwell wasn't (00:28:40) right our power won't be taken away from (00:28:43) us by some authoritarian master we're (00:28:45) going to give it away for cheap dopamine (00:28:48) and the cheap dopamine of video games (00:28:50) and online porn and living online is is (00:28:55) is getting in the way of real life so (00:28:58) it's risk (00:28:59) right that's that's what we're not (00:29:00) allowing young people to do because we (00:29:02) we're saying to young people you can't (00:29:04) take risks in real life we're we're (00:29:07) helicopter parenting we're not giving (00:29:08) them the freedom how much Freedom should (00:29:10) you give a kid as much as they can cope (00:29:12) with right 14year olds used to be (00:29:15) babysitters they now need (00:29:17) babysitters that's not good right so you (00:29:20) should allow them more freedom in in the (00:29:22) real world because otherwise the only (00:29:24) place they get freedom is (00:29:26) online and no freedom in the real world (00:29:28) you're not allowed to go to the park and (00:29:30) hang out but you're allowed to do (00:29:31) whatever you want online well that's a (00:29:33) that feels like a very bad social (00:29:36) experiment that feels like a bad (00:29:38) idea yeah it feels like we've (00:29:41) inverted um Ma you know masloff this P (00:29:45) pyramid hierarchy of needs and you go (00:29:49) well food and shelter and warmth and all (00:29:51) the we've got all the bottom stuff (00:29:52) worked out in our society right we we (00:29:54) kind of can't see it we're not grateful (00:29:55) for that because we can't see the hot (00:29:57) shower the Hot Shot we can't see the (00:29:59) third world and we can't see the people (00:30:00) in the past having a tougher time than (00:30:02) us so we take it for granted but we (00:30:03) worked out that stuff they hadn't worked (00:30:05) that stuff out 200 years ago but they (00:30:08) had the top of the pyramid sorted (00:30:10) everyone knew who they were they had (00:30:12) their identity and they knew what their (00:30:13) purpose was everyone knew who they were (00:30:17) what they were about and they were (00:30:19) connected to to the others in the in the (00:30:21) group and now we're kind of free (00:30:23) floating individuals we kind of worship (00:30:25) the individual as if as if we can (00:30:27) survive as (00:30:29) individuals I always think of that thing (00:30:31) of like there's no such thing as a (00:30:34) baby there's a baby in a mother there's (00:30:36) a baby and a father baby and an auntie (00:30:39) but there's no such thing as a baby (00:30:40) because a baby on its own isn't anything (00:30:42) it's it's dead it's you it needs taken (00:30:44) care of we're all still babies we all (00:30:48) need the (00:30:49) connections you you yourself yeah sure (00:30:52) there's there's a lot of yourself that's (00:30:53) that's within you but a lot of it is out (00:30:56) in the world it's connected to other (00:30:57) people and it kind of it mediates who (00:30:59) you think you are and that's you know (00:31:02) that's that's slightly missing from (00:31:03) society where you kind of live online (00:31:06) and you're kind of a self-authored thing (00:31:08) you're just on on the computer on the (00:31:09) screen and you're not connected and (00:31:11) you're not taking risks taking risks is (00:31:13) really (00:31:14) important is this in part due to the (00:31:16) rise in atheism and agnosticism I think (00:31:19) we we both me and you lost our sort of (00:31:21) religious Faith around the same age (00:31:24) think sort of early mid mid mid2 I think (00:31:26) it's a weird thing where you go you can (00:31:28) lose your I I certainly don't believe in (00:31:30) the stories there's two types of fools (00:31:32) right there's people that take religion (00:31:34) literally and there's people that think (00:31:35) it has no (00:31:37) value okay both both idiots for (00:31:40) different reasons like it works as a (00:31:42) thing religion I quite I miss it because (00:31:45) the reason the ceremony Works isn't (00:31:47) because God's pleased it's because the (00:31:48) people came together and so I think we (00:31:50) look for things that that are um proxies (00:31:53) for religion and sometimes that's could (00:31:57) football it could be Environ ISM you (00:31:59) know because you go well I need (00:32:01) something I need purpose in my life I (00:32:02) need to feel like I'm I'm adding value (00:32:05) and what a great cause I'm going to save (00:32:06) the planet it's a big thing to think (00:32:08) about it's got a religiosity to it but I (00:32:11) don't think that's the you know I don't (00:32:13) think that's necessarily the answer you (00:32:14) know some people do it with politics (00:32:16) they think politics is going to is going (00:32:17) to be Heaven they're going to they're (00:32:19) going to come up with some perfect (00:32:21) system I think you're putting too much (00:32:23) pressure on politics first time I've (00:32:26) ever said this actually but when you (00:32:27) just said I I think Miss religion I (00:32:29) think I miss religion it's nice wasn't (00:32:30) it it's a lovely thought as well when (00:32:32) you lose someone that you love very much (00:32:34) it's a lovely thought I mean Heaven is (00:32:36) just it's a lovely thought and I think (00:32:38) in a way in our culture Fame and Fortune (00:32:41) has replaced (00:32:43) Heaven it's the land of milk and honey (00:32:46) and where you can feel like you're um uh (00:32:50) everything's okay everything's taken (00:32:52) care of um and it is (00:32:55) good but it's it's not it's not heaven I (00:32:58) don't believe in an afterlife I believe (00:33:00) in a next (00:33:01) life so I don't think anything happens (00:33:03) after you die but I think you can have a (00:33:05) next life a very different life so it's (00:33:08) interesting you're at this point of your (00:33:09) your life when you're thinking about (00:33:10) well we might start a family it's a (00:33:13) whole other life it's a whole other (00:33:15) you'll hardly recognize yourself you and (00:33:17) your partner will be saying what did we (00:33:19) do what did we do all day now we're not (00:33:22) a Peppa Pig World or wherever you find (00:33:24) yourselves it's really just struck me (00:33:26) that I do kind of Miss religion but it (00:33:28) feels like when I lost my religion I put (00:33:30) a backpack on a backpack full of weights (00:33:32) on and I think that's what the (00:33:33) responsibility and individualism is I (00:33:35) mean for me the the loss of religion was (00:33:38) A Rush of Blood to the Head it was like (00:33:39) oh I I this is my life and I need to (00:33:43) make good on this and I need to live it (00:33:45) the tragedy is most people don't have (00:33:48) that kind of they don't get to kind of (00:33:49) follow their their their dream when you (00:33:52) were 28 years old your mother died who (00:33:54) had a you know a profound influence on (00:33:56) you for many reasons but also has very (00:33:57) much the inspiration or at least the (00:34:00) singular biggest causal factor of your (00:34:01) career when I read through your story (00:34:03) even more recently you've undergone (00:34:05) quite a lot of grief even the loss of (00:34:07) your dog I believe um which had a pretty (00:34:10) large impact on you I think grief is (00:34:12) cumulative so every time you lose (00:34:15) someone or something uh and and actually (00:34:17) losing a pet can be it's a weird thing (00:34:19) because people lose pets and it's like I (00:34:20) don't know the other people in the (00:34:21) office can be about H okay oh well what (00:34:24) we doing for lunch it's like can be a (00:34:26) really affecting thing because it's not (00:34:28) just just everyone you've lost and you (00:34:30) think about mortality but you think (00:34:32) about your own mortality and you think (00:34:33) about you know you kind of think about (00:34:36) it takes you to a very melancholy place (00:34:37) of like at some point you got to say (00:34:39) goodbye and I guess you think about (00:34:42) those things of going what are the you (00:34:44) know in life as we were talking about (00:34:45) the the the great you can have great a (00:34:48) great resume great CV loads of stuff on (00:34:50) it but what are people going to say at (00:34:53) your eulogy that's the important thing (00:34:56) that's the stuff that really matters (00:34:59) and it's a very different it's again (00:35:01) it's the it's the it's a hidden metric (00:35:04) of what people going to say at your your (00:35:06) funeral what what are people going to (00:35:07) say when you when you (00:35:09) pass uh I don't know I think grief's (00:35:11) it's a it's very interesting it's very (00:35:13) it is that thing of it you know kind of (00:35:15) comes in waves and you think about it (00:35:17) for a long time and then it and then it (00:35:18) hits you how have you dealt with grief (00:35:20) in your (00:35:21) life I mean I I I think when my uh I (00:35:26) don't know I think I think I'm slightly (00:35:28) guilty of you know suppressing it a (00:35:31) little bit I think when uh I think when (00:35:33) Shawn lock died I was very (00:35:35) uh very upset by it and you just go to (00:35:39) work you just kind of go well I'll I'll (00:35:41) put myself in this joyful place of (00:35:43) laughter and maybe not have to think (00:35:45) about it as much but it's (00:35:48) uh yeah it's you know they gone forever (00:35:51) and there was something really amazing (00:35:53) about when sha died because people (00:35:55) shared so much online so you had (00:35:59) these clips of like I remember the day I (00:36:03) remember being at home and and getting (00:36:04) the news and laughing and crying kind of (00:36:07) real kind of um cognitive dissonance of (00:36:10) like feeling really upset and then they (00:36:12) played just all the funniest clips of (00:36:15) Sean like people just sending me clips (00:36:16) clips clips and he was just so funny and (00:36:21) that Joy is kind of there it's it's it's (00:36:25) really lovely it's really like for all (00:36:27) of social media ills on that day my God (00:36:30) it made a (00:36:33) difference what did it make you realize (00:36:35) about both sha and life when he (00:36:38) passed I I don't know whether there's (00:36:40) any great Revelation in it I think it's (00:36:42) that thing of just you know enjoy you (00:36:44) know enjoy your time enjoy the enjoy (00:36:47) this because it's fleeting I mean all (00:36:51) too fleeting for for Sean who's very (00:36:53) young uh but it's you know I think that (00:36:56) that thing of (00:37:02) you know family and and you know (00:37:04) spending time with the people that you (00:37:05) love and and doing what you love I think (00:37:08) prioritizing that it's if you want to (00:37:10) meet someone high agency meet someone (00:37:12) that's got six months to live I'd say (00:37:15) their tolerance for [ __ ] is is about (00:37:16) as low as it (00:37:18) gets I think living your life like that (00:37:20) is not a bad idea if really shows you (00:37:22) what your priorities would be someone (00:37:24) said you had six months to live well (00:37:25) what would you (00:37:26) do that's how what you should be doing (00:37:29) anyway yeah that's really what I'm what (00:37:31) I'm getting at is there's something that (00:37:33) facing our own mortality teaches us um (00:37:36) but unfortunately we have to we often (00:37:38) learn that when we we haven't got a lot (00:37:40) of time to implement it and sometimes (00:37:42) when we when someone close to us passes (00:37:44) away we can vicariously learn that (00:37:46) message about our immortality and what (00:37:48) really what our priority should be and (00:37:50) really how we should be living our life (00:37:51) and really What mattered the most and I (00:37:53) imagine losing someone that was as close (00:37:55) to you as Sha was sends you some kind of (00:37:58) message about priorities and life and (00:38:02) gratitude and all these things we talked (00:38:04) about (00:38:06) yeah I think it's yeah I think gr (00:38:08) gratitude's a big part of it as well (00:38:09) that idea of kind of going wow that was (00:38:11) that was pretty (00:38:14) special you you were I might grab I (00:38:17) might grab another coffee can I grab the (00:38:18) rest of my coffee yeah yeah is that all (00:38:20) right am I allowed yeah he said breaking (00:38:22) with format I might shuffle my notes as (00:38:24) well I'm going to shuffle my notes (00:38:28) this is a business podcast or at least (00:38:31) that's how it started and is it have You (00:38:33) Have you listened back because I don't (00:38:36) think it is I'll be honest with you it's (00:38:38) it's not this is but business is life (00:38:41) you know what I mean and they're the (00:38:42) same thing the communication mental (00:38:45) health striving progress people (00:38:47) relationships it's all business at the (00:38:49) end of the day it I mean you are re I (00:38:52) mean this I mean I know it's still cool (00:38:55) diary the CEO but re I don't think (00:38:56) you've talked about business on this for (00:38:58) like 3 years and even then it was like a (00:39:01) passing so when you started your (00:39:02) business how did that make you feel it's (00:39:06) this isn't you're an old hippie is what (00:39:07) you are you love this is a great podcast (00:39:10) but this is a storytelling podcast so (00:39:12) many of so many entrepreneurs are old (00:39:14) hippies I think of Steve Jobs he was an (00:39:16) Old Hippie yeah you know and it's (00:39:18) interesting I think that thing of like (00:39:20) uh what does business teach people like (00:39:22) we're talking about like young men and (00:39:24) and kind of there's a bit of a crisis (00:39:25) going on out there uh with young men and (00:39:27) and young women are not having an easy (00:39:29) time either but it's that thing of like (00:39:31) the the suicide rate whatever um is (00:39:34) horrific with young men and you go well (00:39:36) what's going on and it's agency I don't (00:39:39) think we're giving young people enough (00:39:40) agency so they don't feel like they have (00:39:42) they have control and really I think the (00:39:45) thing of like serial entrepreneurs like (00:39:47) no one ever seems to hit on their first (00:39:49) company but it's the second and third (00:39:51) and fourth and but they just keep going (00:39:52) they go well I'm never going to work for (00:39:53) anyone I'm going to do it myself that's (00:39:55) kind of I don't think we're teaching (00:39:56) enough of that uh it's it's a weird (00:39:58) thing CU like teaching someone to be a (00:40:01) self-starter is kind of a contradiction (00:40:03) in terms but it's it it kind of works (00:40:06) right there's I think we're teaching the (00:40:07) wrong things I've Got a Theory I think (00:40:08) I'm going to start teaching (00:40:10) comedy and and okay so comedy is very (00:40:14) new it really you could trace its roots (00:40:16) back to George Carlin and Richard PRI in (00:40:19) the early 70s as like one guy on stage (00:40:22) in a big theater and he's selling (00:40:23) tickets and people are just seeing him (00:40:24) right you can trace it back to the dawn (00:40:27) of time but really the modern standup (00:40:30) early '70s is a good good starting point (00:40:32) right so it's a very new medium compared (00:40:34) to music and film right it's very new so (00:40:36) I sort of view George Carlin and uh (00:40:38) Richard PR they're John the Baptist (00:40:40) right and and Jesus isn't here yet and (00:40:44) it's this new evolving medium and unlike (00:40:46) music we don't have a language yet so we (00:40:50) need a language of like okay what are (00:40:51) the joke types and how could you how do (00:40:52) you how do you write that down how do (00:40:54) you configure it there's too much (00:40:55) magical thinking around stand-up comedy (00:40:58) you know the idea that I I just I just (00:41:00) came up with it it's just yeah I just (00:41:03) but actually learning how jokes work and (00:41:06) uh systematizing and uh analyzing them I (00:41:09) think really helps so I've been working (00:41:10) on a book with um uh Amanda Baker who (00:41:12) helped me on my first book uh we've been (00:41:14) working on a thing together for the last (00:41:16) couple of years trying to teach comedy (00:41:17) and I think I think there's a real (00:41:19) benefit to it because if you think about (00:41:20) music in schools right we'd all argue (00:41:22) learning music's great right it's great (00:41:24) idea teach kid the piano grade three (00:41:27) learn something about music and they'll (00:41:28) appreciate music much more in life I (00:41:30) think comedy is much more relevant right (00:41:31) what does comedy teach you right it (00:41:32) teaches you you would you learn to kind (00:41:34) of you find your self and you find your (00:41:37) voice and you learn to communicate your (00:41:39) ideas and to order them and write them (00:41:40) down and uh to communicate it's very (00:41:44) valuable like the great tragedy of life (00:41:47) is most people live and die and never (00:41:49) hear their own (00:41:51) voice everybody wants to be a better (00:41:53) speaker a better Communicator you know (00:41:56) it's funny cuz I sat with a guy called (00:41:58) um Julian treasure who has I think Ted (00:42:00) Talk on communication and speaking that (00:42:02) did I don't know 30 40 million views and (00:42:05) he said I also did a Ted Talk on (00:42:06) listening ick can no one listen to it (00:42:09) everyone listen to the talk about being (00:42:10) a better (00:42:12) speaker that's that's that's pretty (00:42:15) funny uh the uh yeah know I could (00:42:17) imagine that you as a as a guy that's (00:42:19) touring the world 300 days a year you (00:42:20) must have really been able to break down (00:42:22) the science of communication and being a (00:42:25) good speaker that's transferable to (00:42:26) business public speaking life sales (00:42:30) Etc what would what advice would you (00:42:32) give me on how to be a better speaker (00:42:35) Communicator all right (00:42:37) okay 92 beats a (00:42:40) minute what does that mean speak at 92 (00:42:42) beats a minute that's there you go I (00:42:46) mean there's kind of a science behind it (00:42:47) and I've looked into it but most great (00:42:49) public speakers sort of speak in a (00:42:51) rhythm but it doesn't matter how fast (00:42:52) they're speaking but they're kind of (00:42:54) hitting 92 beats a minute so I tend to (00:42:57) listen to a playlist of songs that are (00:42:58) all 92 beats a minute before going on (00:43:00) stage I know that sounds like Madness (00:43:04) you know and it's it may be it is but I (00:43:06) think there's something about that (00:43:08) Rhythm that just the audience that kind (00:43:10) of um the proximal speed of cognition (00:43:13) that idea everyone kind of gets into (00:43:15) that Rhythm and when you look at the (00:43:17) great public speakers they all seem to (00:43:19) be hitting that that rhythm of 92 beats (00:43:21) a minute do you think Trump's a good (00:43:23) public speaker yeah he's an excellent (00:43:24) public speaker of course I don't know (00:43:28) why people would have a problem (00:43:29) admitting that it's I mean he's kind of (00:43:31) and he's freestyling it's like there's (00:43:33) nothing planned this is this is (00:43:35) insane um yeah it's uh because he really (00:43:40) leads into sort of exaggerated (00:43:42) storytelling and emotion much more than (00:43:44) facts and figures than most politicians (00:43:48) I mean it's a it's you know there's a (00:43:50) theory that this is all Gwen Stefani's (00:43:52) fault what do you mean okay so Donald (00:43:55) Trump was pres was hosting the (00:43:57) Apprentice uh and Gwen Stefani was on uh (00:44:02) America's Got Talent or one of the (00:44:04) singing shows maybe it was fact anyone (00:44:06) one of those big singing shows he found (00:44:08) out she was getting paid more than him (00:44:11) and so he wanted to build his relevance (00:44:13) right so he decided Well I know I'll run (00:44:17) for president I'll become incredibly (00:44:19) relevant for like three months he's a (00:44:22) contender he's whatever and then you (00:44:23) drop out the race no problem at all so (00:44:25) he hires all those people in Plaza and (00:44:28) he comes down the gold escalator and he (00:44:29) does the speech and great okay nothing (00:44:32) he then goes and there's footage of this (00:44:34) he then goes and (00:44:35) does the first make America great again (00:44:39) rally and they've got foot job him (00:44:41) walking up the steps and he sees like (00:44:42) 10,000 people all (00:44:46) chanting and there's the (00:44:48) realization oh oh this could be (00:44:52) real it's kind of a yeah I think that's (00:44:55) I think that's stani did it get (00:45:00) her I was the reason I was I was talking (00:45:02) about business is because because this (00:45:04) is don't have a CEO it's a podcast about (00:45:06) business is is because you taught me (00:45:09) last time sort of indirectly about (00:45:12) something that I've now developed and I (00:45:13) call myself no man's land which is that (00:45:16) moment when you make a decision to leave (00:45:17) the comfort and security of your (00:45:20) identity your professional um you know (00:45:23) Endeavor what whatever it is you were (00:45:24) working in marketing and then like I (00:45:26) always reference how objectively insane (00:45:29) it was for you to leave that and go and (00:45:30) become a comedian and I've I've dubbed (00:45:32) that no man's land that sort of six to (00:45:35) 12 months of looking a bit stupid of (00:45:38) losing your friends losing you know I (00:45:40) refer to these five buckets in life you (00:45:42) have your knowledge skills your network (00:45:45) your resources and your reputation and (00:45:47) when you go into No Man's Land you fill (00:45:48) the first two buckets of your Knowledge (00:45:49) and Skills but you empty the last three (00:45:51) you lose your network you lose your (00:45:53) resources often you lose your reputation (00:45:55) whatever that was at the time but you (00:45:56) fill these two buckets you made that for (00:45:59) whatever reason decision to leave a (00:46:01) normal life and go and tell jokes for no (00:46:05) money some people for some reason and (00:46:08) I've seen consistently on this podcast (00:46:09) like Darren Brown who was had a great (00:46:11) professional life ahead of him and (00:46:12) decided to go do card tricks on tables (00:46:14) in Bristol for 10 years I what is it (00:46:18) about these people that's making them I (00:46:19) think they've had the realization right (00:46:21) they've they've had the confucious (00:46:22) moment every man has two lives and he (00:46:25) second begins when he realizes is he (00:46:27) only has (00:46:28) one and the good is the enemy of the (00:46:33) best cuz you know when people are on (00:46:35) podcast like this that moment looks like (00:46:39) bravery but I I wonder if to you and (00:46:42) when you quit your sort of marketing job (00:46:45) no there's plenty of 4:00 in the morning (00:46:46) ah what have I done this seems this (00:46:49) seems crazy especially when you really (00:46:52) kind of when you break because when you (00:46:53) leave as well you don't have like an (00:46:54) hour of great stuff of like that you've (00:46:57) written you've got like 20 minutes of (00:46:59) stuff that you kind of look back on and (00:47:00) go it's kind of joke shaped there's (00:47:02) something there but really it's it's (00:47:05) insane yeah but I think that's great I (00:47:09) think failure is one of the great gifts (00:47:11) of standup (00:47:12) comedy you you sort of make friends with (00:47:14) failure as a standup because you write (00:47:17) so many things that don't work you write (00:47:18) so many jokes that you think oh this is (00:47:19) going to be great and then you tell it (00:47:20) and the audience go no that isn't (00:47:22) anything guess again and that idea of (00:47:25) going yeah failure failure is kind of (00:47:27) frowned upon in our society we don't let (00:47:29) kids fail we don't let kids lose at (00:47:32) sports we don't let you know that it (00:47:34) it's it's really silly because you're (00:47:36) sort of teaching them if if everyone's a (00:47:38) winner then you don't learn how to lose (00:47:41) and to learn how to lose gracefully is (00:47:44) that's a great skill to have isn't it (00:47:47) and and you kind of you know it checks (00:47:49) your ego and you you some not everything (00:47:52) in life is going to work out for you and (00:47:54) it's okay so you you test it and it's a (00:47:56) good test of how much you want something (00:47:58) you go and have you have a terrible gig (00:47:59) and well I'm never doing that again or (00:48:02) you have a terrible gig and go well you (00:48:04) know you you lose or you (00:48:07) learn you develop your relationship with (00:48:09) no I've someone said this to me the (00:48:11) other day and it really stuck with me (00:48:13) that you need you know I worked in Telly (00:48:14) celles for a couple of years and it (00:48:16) really helped me develop my relationship (00:48:17) with the answer no and so now in life I (00:48:20) I think I have a much healthier (00:48:21) relationship with the word no because (00:48:23) for me in call in it's that the law of (00:48:26) averag is where in the call center all (00:48:28) it meant was that I was one step closer (00:48:30) to getting the yes so I'd get you know (00:48:32) you get loads of NOS in a row and you (00:48:34) sit there and go [ __ ] know this next (00:48:35) guy is going to buy these [ __ ] double (00:48:36) glazing and I think at at 16 years old I (00:48:39) developed that relationship with no (00:48:40) which me meant in my head that was (00:48:42) getting me closer to a positive outcome (00:48:43) lots of kids don't have that these these (00:48:45) days because we Shield them from no no (00:48:47) is you know seen as a self-esteem hit (00:48:49) for me it was building some kind of (00:48:51) muscle in me I don't but self-esteem on (00:48:54) its own like confidence without (00:48:56) confidence is (00:48:58) madness it's Madness you you have to (00:49:01) give the world irrefutable proof you are (00:49:03) who you say you are right so you you (00:49:06) release a comedy special or whatever you (00:49:08) go yeah that's me that's what I do the (00:49:09) new tour that's me that's what I do it's (00:49:12) it's irrefutable evidence right I am who (00:49:14) I say I am and I think that idea of (00:49:15) going taking away the the negatives you (00:49:18) can't just I mean I mean you can but (00:49:21) then I think we're I think it's very (00:49:22) cruel I think we're being kind on the (00:49:24) wrong time scale to people (00:49:28) if you're kind you want to be kind to (00:49:29) your kids right I want to be kind to my (00:49:31) kids what do my kids want well they want (00:49:32) McDonald's and they want ice cream and (00:49:34) they want to watch TV and play video (00:49:35) games well okay Downstream are some fat (00:49:38) stupid (00:49:40) kids who wants fat stupid kids no one so (00:49:44) you have to be kind to their potential (00:49:46) to who they're going to be right and (00:49:48) that involves you know broccoli and (00:49:51) homework there boring going on a walk (00:49:54) doing some exercise (00:49:57) okay but but you're being kind later and (00:50:00) I think that it's very easy to see that (00:50:02) when you're a parent uh and it's hard to (00:50:05) see that with an 18-year-old that's (00:50:07) maybe struggling TI to your point about (00:50:09) being kind to you in 24 hours I guess (00:50:14) it's a similar thing right like like (00:50:15) seeing the potential in in someone (00:50:17) seeing the potential in yourself in a (00:50:19) child in anyone but in yourself that's (00:50:21) kind of the thing of going well you (00:50:23) could be incredible in 20 years time cuz (00:50:26) really that thing of like (00:50:27) it's it's the um I suppose what's the (00:50:30) the opposite of gratitude it's (00:50:34) resentment and who had the Great Line (00:50:37) nature had the great line on resentment (00:50:39) he said if you think someone's ruined (00:50:40) your life you're (00:50:42) right it's (00:50:45) you like that's a mic drop isn't it (00:50:48) that's such a great line and you know (00:50:51) gratitude is the cure for that there's a (00:50:54) there's a great definition of (00:50:56) entitlement uh uh which is where you are (00:51:00) now and where you want to be if you want (00:51:01) to do something about it that's (00:51:04) ambition where you are now where you (00:51:06) want to be if you think that's someone (00:51:08) else's (00:51:09) problem that's (00:51:12) entitlement and I think if we're (00:51:14) honest there's always a little bit of (00:51:16) that going on like there's a lot of (00:51:18) people in my industry that would you (00:51:20) know that their career isn't where they (00:51:21) think it should be and ah I need to get (00:51:23) a new (00:51:25) agent really you think that might be the (00:51:28) problem remember there's a great story (00:51:31) of uh I wasn't there but uh David tell (00:51:34) is sort of the comedians comedian is (00:51:36) works out in New York late night uh he's (00:51:39) I mean really one of the greats one of (00:51:41) the one of the most influential voices (00:51:42) in comedy and these guys backstage were (00:51:44) like moaning about their (00:51:46) management and he's kind of overhearing (00:51:48) this conversation it's going on for far (00:51:50) too long and he just he oh be funnier (00:51:58) it's often very simple that stoic thing (00:51:59) of going what's the thing you meant to (00:52:01) be doing just do that I'm not sure I (00:52:04) approve of portfolio sort of uh working (00:52:08) the idea of having lots of different (00:52:09) things that you do because (00:52:11) really you going to do comedy part-time (00:52:15) what you're going to do half comedy and (00:52:17) half novel writing oh so you're going to (00:52:20) compete I'm doing it 100% of the time (00:52:23) and you think you can compete 50% of the (00:52:24) time all the best let's see how you do (00:52:28) you're never going to get to the top of (00:52:29) the pyramid doing it 50% of the time (00:52:32) right yeah and there'll probably be a (00:52:33) lot of resentment as you say an (00:52:35) entitlement be you know be be a (00:52:38) specialist it's one of the favorite (00:52:40) parts of my previous conversation that I (00:52:41) had with you where you you talk about (00:52:43) the world doesn't need more people that (00:52:44) are [ __ ] in physics and it really helped (00:52:45) me understand a lot of things I also (00:52:47) then shortly after Met Richard Branson (00:52:48) in New York and he's the most you know (00:52:50) incredible delegator he's not trying to (00:52:52) get good at things that he's not good at (00:52:54) he's built his whole business and life (00:52:55) on realizing what he's [ __ ] at and just (00:52:59) handing that over to other people (00:53:00) whereas so many people are fighting to (00:53:01) polish something that they're not so (00:53:04) good at yeah I think knowing who you are (00:53:06) is quite important for that isn't it (00:53:07) it's like being honest about it like (00:53:09) well I'm not good at that but I can do (00:53:10) this it's hard to know who you are (00:53:12) though clouded you want to be yeah it's (00:53:15) well yeah it's it's also that thing of (00:53:17) uh it takes a bit of (00:53:18) time I'm not sure whether we're not kind (00:53:20) of rushing people on that a little (00:53:23) bit I'm i i s often think of like the (00:53:25) listeners to this show right so like (00:53:29) certainly the younger ones of kind of (00:53:30) going well do I need to know now who I (00:53:33) am and what I want to do exactly it's no (00:53:36) you could you know try a few different (00:53:37) things see what you like because I think (00:53:38) that thing when you get into the stream (00:53:40) that you're meant to be in it just feels (00:53:41) very easy it's like you're not you're (00:53:43) not you know swimming against the tide (00:53:46) just feels like it's carrying you (00:53:48) along I love what I do now but I often (00:53:51) question whether I should go be like a (00:53:53) DJ or do musical theater or something (00:53:55) what me do what I can answer that (00:53:58) question for you that's a bit of luck no (00:54:00) no you [ __ ] (00:54:02) shouldn't what what you think you maybe (00:54:05) should do musical theater who what are (00:54:09) you having a panic attack what what are (00:54:12) you talking (00:54:13) about what would make you think that I I (00:54:16) bought some DJ equipment and I spent (00:54:18) about a year learning and I thought I (00:54:19) [ __ ] love doing this great you've got (00:54:22) hobby you've got a hobby not (00:54:24) everything's a business I know it's di (00:54:26) over CEO and everything you do you think (00:54:28) oh maybe we can make a few quid out of (00:54:30) this no stop it what are you talking (00:54:34) about you know who's you know who's (00:54:36) being a DJ right now there's someone (00:54:38) right now in their bedroom they've been (00:54:40) there for 12 hours already today and (00:54:42) they're just loving it and they're (00:54:44) putting everything into it they're (00:54:46) putting the work you put into the (00:54:47) podcast into (00:54:48) DJing let them have that it's nice to (00:54:51) have stuff where you're in a flow state (00:54:53) in life and for some people that's work (00:54:55) and for some people that's a hobby and (00:54:56) and some some of us are very lucky and (00:54:58) we get to do it in a few different (00:54:59) things so I play a little bit (00:55:03) tennis I don't think I'm going to get (00:55:04) the wild card at Wimbledon this year (00:55:07) there I've given up on that it's just a (00:55:09) hobby and listen I mean you might be the (00:55:11) next Calvin Harris I might be steering (00:55:13) you in the wrong direction you might be (00:55:14) incredible but stop it stop it just do (00:55:18) this this is great this is (00:55:20) enough it's is lovely you're talking to (00:55:22) the most interesting people I mean (00:55:23) present company accepted but you you (00:55:25) know you speak to all these different (00:55:26) people from different worlds and it's (00:55:28) it's this is enough right how do you (00:55:32) know if it isn't enough well I want to (00:55:34) talk to you about quitting because (00:55:35) there's going to be a cohort of people (00:55:36) that listen to them I meet them I met a (00:55:38) lot of them last night at a show I was (00:55:39) doing and they are working in finance (00:55:41) and they'll tell me their job then (00:55:42) they'll show me their hobby on their (00:55:44) phone and their face lights up when they (00:55:45) show me their I don't know their Pap and (00:55:48) mashe business or whatever it is on (00:55:49) their phone what's the great line it's (00:55:50) the uh you know if you if you want to (00:55:51) find out what you should do in (00:55:55) life what do you think about all the (00:55:57) time that's your (00:55:59) [Music] (00:56:00) god what working in the city with a (00:56:02) shirt and tie on at JP Morgan or (00:56:04) something no but no one's thinking about (00:56:05) that all the time you know so what do (00:56:07) you what do you think about all the time (00:56:09) what are you what are you engaged in all (00:56:10) the time like if it's if it's football (00:56:11) if you're absolutely obsessed by (00:56:13) football well something in that industry (00:56:14) is going to be the job for you because (00:56:16) you're obsessed by that and that's what (00:56:17) you think about all the time so the um (00:56:20) the idea of quitting quitting is quite (00:56:22) interesting (00:56:24) because oh the things that you won't do (00:56:27) like if you're going to have an (00:56:28) interesting life you can't have all the (00:56:31) other interesting lives you would have (00:56:33) had right so there's all the (00:56:35) counterfactuals of the different sliding (00:56:36) doors that you could have done like well (00:56:39) you know if you're going to be an (00:56:40) Olympian you're going to have to give up (00:56:42) an awful lot of stuff like you're not (00:56:44) really going to have a childhood in the (00:56:46) traditional sense but you're going to be (00:56:48) an Olympian great and if you if you're (00:56:51) going to be an academic then you're (00:56:53) probably not going to be having to go to (00:56:55) as many parties okay well that's you (00:56:57) know there's there's no Solutions only (00:56:59) trade-offs you know Thomas S isn't (00:57:02) it you have to make a lot of trade-offs (00:57:04) because not only you know are you on the (00:57:06) road 300 days a year but you have so (00:57:08) much opportunity there's so many things (00:57:09) being offered to you to do movies why (00:57:11) don't you try and be an actor or why (00:57:12) don't you write five more books or why (00:57:14) don't you do I don't know a comic (00:57:16) comical musical or whatever it might be (00:57:18) why don't you become a DJ DJ and musical (00:57:20) theater those are my two prime loves um (00:57:23) yeah I mean there's there's a few (00:57:24) there's not as many as you would think I (00:57:25) don't no one's banging down my door (00:57:27) saying you want to be in a movie um and (00:57:29) I don't know if I'd be I don't know if (00:57:31) I'd be great at that I don't know I mean (00:57:33) listen I like getting out my comfort (00:57:35) zone and you know opportunities come (00:57:37) along and sometimes you you get offed a (00:57:38) TV show you go well give it a go why not (00:57:41) um but I think sticking to what you do (00:57:42) that stoic thing has really paid (00:57:45) dividends that really has paid off and I (00:57:48) think you have to listen to that you (00:57:50) know and I see other Comics you know (00:57:52) mentioning no names there's some great (00:57:54) standup Comics that were like absolutely (00:57:56) amazing and they're doing five other (00:57:58) things now and they've lost a yard of (00:58:00) pace and for me that feels crazy like (00:58:03) you've because I'm looking at it going (00:58:05) you've got the best job in the world why (00:58:08) are you allowing yourself to be (00:58:10) distracted because ultimately it's going (00:58:13) to be hard work you know ultimately I (00:58:15) mean people can see it I suppose that (00:58:18) the you know something costs more like a (00:58:20) a Ferrari cost a lot of money cuz a lot (00:58:22) of work goes into it right there's a lot (00:58:23) of work goes into that thing there a the (00:58:25) beautiful handmade made Louis Vuitton (00:58:28) thing is it's going to be expensive (00:58:29) because a lot of work went into it (00:58:30) people understand that I sort of feel (00:58:32) the same about shows you're going to see (00:58:34) a show you wow that really took some (00:58:36) time every single line in that is (00:58:38) brilliant he's not wasting any time it's (00:58:40) no there's no fat it's just it's a lot (00:58:42) of (00:58:43) work when people look at you and they (00:58:46) look at successful individuals they (00:58:47) think oh they just must be innately (00:58:48) motivated in some way that I'm not well (00:58:51) I do think that's it's slightly unfair (00:58:53) that we think about luck in a very fixed (00:58:57) way right so Barbie and Oppenheimer are (00:59:01) great to talk about this right so people (00:59:02) see Margo Robbie and they go well she's (00:59:05) just lucky right she was born she's that (00:59:07) beautiful right she's so beautiful (00:59:09) people can't see how good an actress she (00:59:10) is right people just can't because she's (00:59:12) just like sort of this stunning thing (00:59:14) and and you look Oppenheimer right no (00:59:16) one thinks a he so lucky born with an IQ (00:59:19) of (00:59:20) 170 a and born with a work ethic because (00:59:25) a work ethic is heritable right so he (00:59:27) was born incredibly clever and an (00:59:30) incredible work ethic right and no one (00:59:33) thinks of him as being lucky but they (00:59:34) think of her is being lucky it's weird (00:59:37) thing right that's odd in our perception (00:59:41) of of luck and how much is how much is (00:59:43) your factory settings you know this it's (00:59:46) always I've talked to you about this (00:59:48) before but it's always like some some (00:59:50) [ __ ] uh if someone's very successful (00:59:52) you either go wow incredible Talent OR (00:59:55) oh he works so hard no always both (01:00:00) together always both (01:00:03) together and or like you said earlier (01:00:05) maybe a bit pathological in some way (01:00:07) which I don't know whether you'd put (01:00:08) Talent bucket again you put the (01:00:09) pathological the work ethic the the (01:00:11) striving a lot of that is (01:00:14) heritable you know so what what are you (01:00:16) going to do I think when you when you (01:00:18) see luck in that way I think you become (01:00:20) much more forgiving of (01:00:23) okay it's quite crazy this idea of luck (01:00:26) i' think been thinking a lot about it (01:00:27) lately I was reading some stories about (01:00:30) um even the asteroid hitting Earth if it (01:00:32) had been a minute later than the (01:00:33) dinosaurs would still be here and the (01:00:35) story of Nagasaki and Hiroshima being (01:00:37) bombed because one guy went to Kyoto 20 (01:00:39) years earlier and he really liked it so (01:00:41) he told president truma not to bomb it (01:00:43) and if he hadn't been on holiday there (01:00:44) with his wife then Kyoto would have been (01:00:46) hit by the nuclear bomb and then they (01:00:48) went over kakuru I think a city in Japan (01:00:50) and that had a cloud so they s [ __ ] it (01:00:52) we'll go bomb Hiroshima and 100,000 (01:00:54) people over there lost their lives and (01:00:55) every generation that would have come (01:00:57) lost you you think these tiny little (01:00:59) things that are going on in the world at (01:01:00) all times kind of like this this idea of (01:01:02) the butterfly effect shaping our world (01:01:04) and it can make you feel a little bit (01:01:05) powerless in some way because if I'm the (01:01:07) you know if if someone's holiday can be (01:01:10) the difference between me being alive or (01:01:11) dead yeah it's you know it's very (01:01:14) difficult to to you know we we always (01:01:15) you know think about the first order (01:01:17) effects of what we do not the second and (01:01:18) third order effects yeah so yeah I mean (01:01:22) that's a that's a lot to that's a lot to (01:01:24) take in with this idea of luck in mind (01:01:26) mind personal responsibility seems to (01:01:29) sit on the other side of the (01:01:30) conversation of luck which is how much (01:01:32) can I control where I'm going in my life (01:01:34) how much control do I have how much (01:01:35) should I show up and [ __ ] fight for (01:01:38) positive outcomes yeah well that's (01:01:40) agency you should you should strive to (01:01:43) have the locus of control within (01:01:46) yourself like so there's there's (01:01:49) character and there's reputation and (01:01:51) reputation is what the world thinks of (01:01:52) you and character is what you know about (01:01:53) yourself and your self-esteem should be (01:01:56) Lar based on your character and a little (01:01:58) bit based on reputation because (01:02:02) reputation you could you could take a (01:02:04) hit every now and then you get canceled (01:02:06) once in a while well once every 18 (01:02:08) months well hang on the the Netflix (01:02:10) special drops today so I imagine I'm (01:02:12) being canceled right now somewhere how (01:02:14) have you come to deal with that because (01:02:16) as a comedian you guys get it worse than (01:02:17) anybody I don't know if we get it worse (01:02:19) than anyone I think we're sort of the (01:02:20) canary in the mind it's it's I don't (01:02:23) know I sort of view it as respectability (01:02:25) is a prison and the gates are open and (01:02:28) people are desperate to be (01:02:29) inside right I I'm not a respectable guy (01:02:32) I tell very edgy out there jokes and (01:02:35) jokes are like magnets they attract some (01:02:37) people I've got a big following I've got (01:02:39) a lot of people that watch my shows and (01:02:40) and they really enjoy it and light (01:02:43) magnets they the jokes attract people (01:02:45) and they repel people some people are (01:02:47) repelled by my jokes and they think (01:02:48) they're terrible I'm not for everyone I (01:02:50) think you have to accept that and you (01:02:54) know it's it's when it comes out on (01:02:55) Netflix when it drops DRS that's when it (01:02:57) kind of the pathogen escapes the lab (01:03:00) because people that didn't pay to see (01:03:01) this are suddenly exposed to it someone (01:03:03) puts a clip somewhere and goes this ban (01:03:05) this filth (01:03:06) okay Banning stuff it's like I sort of (01:03:09) view Council culture as the new and this (01:03:11) isn't saying criticism isn't valid you (01:03:13) can criticize ideas but you cancel (01:03:15) people and I think the cancel culture (01:03:17) thing I think it's the new book burning (01:03:19) it's no different the people that burnt (01:03:21) The Beatles records in the 60s how do (01:03:24) they feel now you feel like a dummy I (01:03:27) bet they feel like dummies it's like and (01:03:29) and obviously the basket of things that (01:03:31) are acceptable and unacceptable change (01:03:33) and EB and flow through time but really (01:03:36) it's it's uh you know I'm I'm a creature (01:03:38) of my time I'm going to I'm going to (01:03:39) tell these jokes and if they get big (01:03:41) laughs then then great have you always (01:03:44) had this perspective or is this (01:03:45) something that's developed like a muscle (01:03:46) over time no I think I think there's um (01:03:49) I think that adversity I've been (01:03:50) canceled quite a few times and there's I (01:03:53) try and see the positives in life right (01:03:55) so adversity is a filter and you find (01:03:57) out who your friends are and who stands (01:04:00) by you and who's you know who's ride or (01:04:03) die great turns out got loads of great (01:04:05) friends and a couple of people fell by (01:04:07) the wayside and great I don't have to (01:04:10) waste any time on them (01:04:12) because everyone loves you when you're (01:04:14) thrown a party but in the tough times (01:04:17) you're a bit more difficult to love and (01:04:19) if people stand by you then then they're (01:04:21) friends that's that's that's what it is (01:04:24) you friendship is such an important (01:04:25) thing it's something that we don't (01:04:26) really think about we think about a lot (01:04:27) about our partners in life and our (01:04:29) children and that side of family (01:04:31) friendship for me is such an important (01:04:33) thing it's such a huge part of my life (01:04:36) and really when you think about it why (01:04:37) why do why is comedy having this moment (01:04:40) well because comedian it's a little bit (01:04:41) like a friendship right there's there's (01:04:43) a there's no (01:04:44) filter and really your best friend is (01:04:46) the person you have the least filter (01:04:47) with your deepest darkest you share (01:04:50) you're open and a colleague you quite a (01:04:53) lot of filter and someone you meet the (01:04:55) bus stop (01:04:56) tons of filter right Comics kind there's (01:04:59) no there's no filter you see Chappelle (01:05:01) on stage he's it's him great you see (01:05:05) Chris Rock On Stage that's him it's like (01:05:08) you feel (01:05:09) connected (01:05:11) lovely there's really something in that (01:05:13) idea of as you were saying there that (01:05:16) there's so little authenticity and (01:05:18) vulnerability and openness in the world (01:05:20) that when we encounter it we feel so (01:05:22) connected to it because it caters to the (01:05:26) demand that we have that's not being met (01:05:28) with Supply there's so much supply of (01:05:30) like filter girl on holiday in Hawaii (01:05:32) drinking cocktail but it but in our sort (01:05:34) of private and our secret lives there's (01:05:36) very little um reflection of what we (01:05:39) think about in our private and secret (01:05:41) lives in the world so when we hear (01:05:43) someone talking about their depression (01:05:44) or their mental health we go oh my God (01:05:46) that you know can resonate or is this (01:05:47) not why the podcast is so big why comedy (01:05:50) so big at the moment because the the gap (01:05:51) between public and private discourse has (01:05:53) never been wider and we both were we're (01:05:56) both living in that space we you go yeah (01:05:58) have a have a real conversation with (01:05:59) someone great and the you know the the (01:06:02) cancelling thing is is great but (01:06:05) really what happens I mean you could you (01:06:07) can recalibrate it and just call it free (01:06:09) publicity like people are talking about (01:06:10) you well great (01:06:12) okay there's this thing called the (01:06:13) Eraser test which one of my guests (01:06:15) talked to me about before mord out where (01:06:16) he said if you could go back and he (01:06:18) asked I think he asked or there was a (01:06:20) study done where they asked people if (01:06:21) they could go back in time and erase (01:06:22) their most difficult moment would you (01:06:24) press the button and erase it and like (01:06:26) these are like really traumatic events (01:06:27) about 95% of people said they wouldn't (01:06:29) when you think about your most traumatic (01:06:31) moments of sort of being canceled or (01:06:32) something like that the best best advice (01:06:34) I got um actually the last time I got (01:06:36) canceled I found a friend of mine who's (01:06:38) been cancelled and he said you've only (01:06:41) got you've only got to answer one (01:06:44) question who's Jimmy (01:06:49) car uh any went no who's Jimmy KH I well (01:06:52) I'm edgy stand-up comedian (01:06:57) okay fine then you haven't got a (01:07:02) problem it's great and then another (01:07:05) friend of mine just went well you need (01:07:06) to just rightsize this and I'm what (01:07:09) what's you've got to rightsize it she (01:07:12) said what's happened here you told a (01:07:16) joke and some people didn't like (01:07:20) it yeah that's what (01:07:22) happened I didn't didn't seem like that (01:07:26) a deal when you put it like (01:07:27) that and yet in the moment sometimes it (01:07:29) feels you know (01:07:31) catastrophic but those hard times you (01:07:33) know you wouldn't erased the hard times (01:07:35) because again I would say and it's a (01:07:37) it's a you can't have an easy life in a (01:07:39) great character and what they're saying (01:07:41) thereby not erasing that moment is I'll (01:07:43) keep my character (01:07:44) thanks anxiety we talked about this last (01:07:48) time anxiety is it's a very interesting (01:07:51) thing I mean my kind of original thought (01:07:53) on anxiety was the it's the flip side of (01:07:55) Crea ity so you have a mind that is (01:07:57) woring and that's given me every gift (01:08:00) I've ever received right the ability to (01:08:01) write jokes and to to be funny or (01:08:03) whatever is from that I can't turn it (01:08:05) off mind and sometimes at 4 in the (01:08:07) morning when you got nothing to do that (01:08:09) mind is still woring so you get involved (01:08:11) in counterfactuals you start to think of (01:08:13) all the other things that could have (01:08:14) happened that haven't happened in life (01:08:17) and you know people are not worried (01:08:19) about falling off a cliff they're (01:08:21) worried about jumping it's the madness (01:08:24) within all of us of like well what what (01:08:26) could happen and the worst case scenario (01:08:27) and these terrible things and you allow (01:08:29) that to to get ahead of you I think the (01:08:31) cure for it for me at the moment how I'm (01:08:33) managing my anxiety is giving myself (01:08:35) more to (01:08:36) do because I think anxiety you're trying (01:08:39) to solve a problem in the future now and (01:08:42) you can't because there's no problem in (01:08:45) the now the problem is in in the future (01:08:48) so you you you're kind of ahead there (01:08:51) trying to trying to figure out something (01:08:53) because you there's a demand (01:08:56) for um for problem solving in the moment (01:08:59) and you don't have a problem fact think (01:09:01) of like people don't get depressed when (01:09:02) they go to the gym right if you're in (01:09:03) the gym you can't be anxious while (01:09:06) you're working out because you have an (01:09:07) immediate problem I got lift this damn (01:09:09) thing off my chest you've got an (01:09:11) immediate thing to deal with you're in (01:09:12) that moment so it's hard to be anxious (01:09:15) because you got something to do right (01:09:16) now so give yourself something to do (01:09:18) right now if you're suffering with (01:09:20) anxiety and don't let your mind kind of (01:09:22) drift into the future kind I suppose (01:09:24) it's quite sort of um (01:09:26) Buddhist in a way is your anxiety (01:09:29) triggered by (01:09:30) anything or is it just kind of a noise (01:09:33) in the background I I don't think it is (01:09:35) I think you often I think I I think (01:09:38) there's an illusion that when you feel (01:09:40) anxiety it's about this thing I think (01:09:42) actually you've just got a a level of (01:09:44) anxiety and you will you know so if I've (01:09:47) got nothing to worry about career-wise (01:09:49) or show wise or I'm not currently being (01:09:52) canceled you might worry about the (01:09:54) environment or you worry about your kids (01:09:56) or you worry about you know you'll worry (01:09:58) about something else so I think you just (01:10:00) it just it attaches onto whatever's (01:10:02) front of mind and you logically go oh (01:10:04) it's anxiety about this it isn't it's (01:10:06) just (01:10:07) anxiety do you think people know who you (01:10:09) are truly you know I I met with a CIA (01:10:13) agent a couple of weeks ago and he said (01:10:14) we have three lives we have our our (01:10:16) secret life we have our private life and (01:10:17) then we have our public life public life (01:10:19) is you know the guy in the suit on (01:10:20) camera your private life might be what (01:10:22) your wife knows but then maybe your (01:10:24) secret life is who you are when there's (01:10:26) like absolutely nobody there in your (01:10:28) mind and in your own space do you think (01:10:30) people know who you are I think so I (01:10:32) think actually weirdly um this podcast (01:10:35) is quite important in that you know (01:10:37) going on this going on Joe Rogan going (01:10:39) on Modern wisdom and talking as myself (01:10:41) is very exposing uh and writing the book (01:10:44) before and after which is kind of a um (01:10:47) autobiography but also a bit (01:10:48) self-helpy-ness (01:10:55) if we knew each other if we were having (01:10:57) lunch you know for the listeners it's (01:10:58) like this is yeah it's kind of what I'm (01:11:00) like and then I've got an ability to be (01:11:02) funny on stage which is another side of (01:11:04) me so I think that's like it's not it's (01:11:06) not inauthentic what I do on stage it's (01:11:08) just like that's who I am in front of (01:11:09) 3,000 people that have all paid £30 to (01:11:11) be (01:11:12) entertained here we go what's the side (01:11:14) of view that your wife might know but we (01:11:16) don't well this this this is yeah you (01:11:20) know you you're slightly more um I think (01:11:23) on this it's it's very much you take (01:11:25) down the (01:11:26) uh it's not like doing a TV show to (01:11:29) publicize something so if you go on you (01:11:32) know gr you're very much like okay well (01:11:34) I've got three anecdotes and I'll get (01:11:35) them out and I'll try and get four (01:11:36) laughs and then I'll try and snipe her (01:11:38) in on the other guests and be funny and (01:11:40) it's a it's very performative whereas (01:11:43) this is performative but in a slightly (01:11:45) different way where you're kind of going (01:11:46) well this is kind of what I think about (01:11:47) the world and this is this is what it's (01:11:49) like inside my head and it's quite I (01:11:52) don't know I suppose when you step back (01:11:53) from it it's kind of okay well a lot of (01:11:56) self-help a lot of uh a lot of (01:12:00) uh I guess therapy a you that's that's (01:12:04) what I'm like since we spoke last (01:12:07) time is there anything you thought then (01:12:09) that you no longer believe I'm (01:12:12) interested I'm asking that question (01:12:13) because my favorite question what was (01:12:14) the last thing you changed your mind (01:12:15) about um I think I've changed my mind (01:12:18) about environmentalism a little bit I (01:12:20) think I'm I absolutely acknowledge the (01:12:23) problem and I think the solution is just (01:12:26) there I think it's I think it's (01:12:27) splitting the atom I think we should all (01:12:29) be I think nuclear is kind of the is the (01:12:31) future that's what we should be (01:12:33) investing in that's we've got an issue (01:12:36) that we have a system that is full of (01:12:39) politicians and we we haven't got (01:12:42) Statesman we need longer (01:12:45) terms longer terms we need longer terms (01:12:48) because we need people to make decisions (01:12:50) like everything's about um about rewards (01:12:53) right so what do we reward it's on a 5 (01:12:55) year cycle so no one's ever going to (01:12:57) invest in nuclear because it's going to (01:12:59) take 20 years to pay off but they should (01:13:01) be rewarded for that somehow we need to (01:13:04) find a way to reward politicians for (01:13:07) what they did 20 years ago because if we (01:13:10) do that it's there there's a better (01:13:12) future right and I I don't know if (01:13:15) Britain doing it makes any difference (01:13:17) like people often say well if Britain (01:13:18) does it it doesn't make any difference (01:13:20) because well China's not going to do it (01:13:21) or India's not going to do it but you go (01:13:23) well actually if we did it if we did (01:13:25) something something radical and went all (01:13:29) nuclear there been incredible examples (01:13:31) to set to the rest of the world here's (01:13:33) what I do here's my you want to hear my (01:13:35) pitch all right here's my political (01:13:36) pitch right nuclear submarines have been (01:13:39) testing this for 50 years they're (01:13:40) perfectly safe right people going to (01:13:41) live in a nuclear sub next to the (01:13:43) reactor they're fine right so we build (01:13:45) one of those there's no not in my (01:13:46) backyard we put it in everyone's (01:13:48) backyard there's a nuclear reactor like (01:13:50) a submarine in every city bury it have a (01:13:53) small power unit in every city City and (01:13:55) town in Britain okay and then it's quite (01:13:58) expensive so you pay your fuel Bill and (01:14:00) in 20 years time we don't worry about (01:14:02) cop 23 we we burn all the fossil fuels (01:14:04) we want for 20 years and then in one day (01:14:07) we go totally green right no more fossil (01:14:09) fuels well a little bit for fertilizers (01:14:11) and stuff but no more essentially and (01:14:13) then fuel over the next 10 years uh (01:14:15) Power becomes (01:14:18) free so we say to businesses around the (01:14:20) world you want to set up a business in (01:14:21) Britain it's quite expensive to employ (01:14:23) people but Energy's free you think we (01:14:25) live in a world where energy will be of (01:14:27) value in 20 years (01:14:29) time is it going to be the thing yes so (01:14:33) you say to your Amazon and your Googles (01:14:34) do you want to set up the place here (01:14:35) yeah (01:14:37) great if I rule the world that's what I (01:14:39) would do Trump's probably going to come (01:14:40) back into Power isn't he by the looks of (01:14:42) things Biden's not doesn't seem to be (01:14:43) very compelling to people according to (01:14:45) some of the polls I mean a week is a (01:14:46) long time in politics who knows who (01:14:48) knows what will happen I think America (01:14:50) will be fine regardless America is um (01:14:55) Geographic rically economically uh it's (01:14:58) a net exporter of fuel and of food it's (01:15:01) got incredible Neighbors in Canada and (01:15:04) Mexico it is it's going to have the most (01:15:07) incredible 20 years regardless of who (01:15:09) gets in they're going to double their (01:15:11) industrial base in the next 20 years (01:15:14) because everything that was globalized (01:15:16) is becoming more insula uh which isn't (01:15:18) necessarily good for the world but very (01:15:19) good for America America can afford to (01:15:22) have a terrible political system because (01:15:24) it is so blessed (01:15:26) they're going to own much of the AI race (01:15:27) as well all the big AI companies seem to (01:15:29) be based in America and that feel feels (01:15:30) like that's going to really I'm not (01:15:32) worried about Ai No AI is a covers band (01:15:36) it's it's artificial intelligence it's (01:15:38) not artificial Consciousness right so if (01:15:41) you tell it to write a joke it can spit (01:15:42) back stuff that you've already written (01:15:44) and reorder it slightly but yeah don't (01:15:47) worry about it but if you imagine the (01:15:48) Beatles aren't worried about the bootleg (01:15:50) Beatles but if you imagine at sort of (01:15:52) even a 20% rate of improvement every (01:15:54) year it's it's only going to take and (01:15:56) you know that compounds it's only going (01:15:57) to take us five or 10 years before (01:15:59) there's a [ __ ] AI that can crack a (01:16:01) joke really really [ __ ] well great (01:16:04) and and an original (01:16:06) joke I don't know whether it's going to (01:16:08) be original I think there is something (01:16:09) about I mean uh you know I don't know (01:16:12) genius is an over overused term right so (01:16:14) there's there's uh there's two types of (01:16:17) Genius right there's there's um there's (01:16:20) innate actual genius there's you know (01:16:22) bark or bethoven or whatever you know (01:16:25) genius genius and then there's um hyper (01:16:27) accelerated (01:16:29) rationality and it's kind of what you (01:16:32) know people talk about comic genius and (01:16:33) they go that's what they're talking (01:16:34) about hyper accelerated rationality and (01:16:36) I think AI is a long way from either of (01:16:39) them like of coming up generating (01:16:41) something that's genuinely (01:16:43) original no it's a covers band it can it (01:16:48) it can it can go well that's the genre (01:16:50) and I can do something that's a bit (01:16:51) similar but there's something about (01:16:52) human creativity that I don't think it's (01:16:54) getting close to (01:16:56) and maybe I'm being naive but I think (01:16:59) it'll be an incredible thing for the (01:17:00) world because I think new jobs will come (01:17:05) along this wasn't a job 10 years ago (01:17:07) right being a podcaster you tell someone (01:17:09) I'm going to do I'm going to do sort of (01:17:11) a long radio show but people but it's an (01:17:14) individual you'd have to explain it you (01:17:16) know it things change and it's only when (01:17:19) you sort of look back you go oh wow (01:17:21) that's interesting the biggest TV (01:17:23) channel in the world is YouTube (01:17:26) and no one noticed the BBC were battling (01:17:29) with ITV about who's going to get the (01:17:30) higher ratings on a Saturday night and (01:17:32) YouTube stole their lunch because they (01:17:34) weren't paying (01:17:35) attention is that not AI well it's the (01:17:39) world it's the world progresses and (01:17:41) things move on and it's always been fine (01:17:44) I think people worrying about AI it (01:17:46) really strikes me it's the people going (01:17:48) well these we've got to smash up these (01:17:49) these cotton making machines because (01:17:52) this is this is this can't happen (01:17:54) there'll be no new jobs they'll just be (01:17:55) different jobs I read a book called The (01:17:56) innovators dilemma and it really changed (01:17:59) my mind on a few things they go back (01:18:01) through history and they look at all of (01:18:02) the big steps forward in Innovation and (01:18:04) they basically categorize two types of (01:18:06) innovation I'll call it the upward (01:18:08) opportunity and the downward opportunity (01:18:09) so if you're selling horses back in the (01:18:12) 1880s the upward opportunity is the (01:18:15) thing that all your customers are asking (01:18:16) for it is the thing that you know how to (01:18:18) do it is the thing that you have your (01:18:19) supply chain setup to deliver on which (01:18:21) is faster and better horses you know you (01:18:23) can imagine the meeting that you're the (01:18:24) CEO of horse company I come in I go (01:18:26) listen boss got an idea they go what is (01:18:27) it I go faster horses you go people (01:18:30) asking for it I go yeah do we know how (01:18:31) to do it yeah um do we have a customer B (01:18:33) yeah let's do that then then another guy (01:18:35) comes in and says Jimmy I've got an idea (01:18:37) um cars are they better no you have to (01:18:40) walk in front of it with a red red flag (01:18:42) and it goes 10 miles an hour do we know (01:18:43) how to do it no is anyone asking for it (01:18:46) no one none of our customers have asked (01:18:48) for a horse yeah that is the downward (01:18:50) opportunity and throughout history the (01:18:52) incumbents always ignore the downward (01:18:54) opportunity because their incentives as (01:18:56) you said their incentives are set up to (01:18:58) pursue what we call the sustaining (01:18:59) Innovation the obvious thing in front of (01:19:01) them become a better comedian or become (01:19:03) a better podcaster get another camera (01:19:06) the downward opportunity I asked myself (01:19:07) what is the downward opportunity in (01:19:08) podcasting L you should ask uh you (01:19:10) should ask comedians comedians got an (01:19:12) interesting way of thinking I think (01:19:14) we're very similar to (01:19:15) detectives because we think backwards (01:19:18) most people think about what's next (01:19:20) right which is what you're talking about (01:19:21) there is what's next what's the next (01:19:22) thing what's the next thing and we go (01:19:24) well this is the state of affairs how (01:19:25) did this happen it's the same as it's (01:19:27) like being Sherlock Holmes you go how (01:19:29) the how the hell did that you kind of (01:19:31) you're reverse engineering a lot of the (01:19:32) time it's very interesting that this is (01:19:35) this may yet be a business (01:19:38) podcast I think I I honestly think with (01:19:42) the right amount of work if you really (01:19:43) put yourself into this I genuinely think (01:19:45) you can occasionally talk about (01:19:46) business I tried to I try and weave it (01:19:49) in where I can yeah but that's (01:19:50) interesting that the the podcast thing (01:19:51) of going no one saw podcast coming (01:19:55) nobody like this and yet what's missing (01:19:57) from our lives right what's what's (01:19:58) missing what's the nature of BS of (01:20:00) vacuum well people aren't having (01:20:03) conversations people are when you look (01:20:05) around the world all those people that (01:20:06) live to 100 all of those zones and (01:20:08) people go oh yeah they eat loads of (01:20:09) olive oil and fish maybe that's the (01:20:10) answer no it isn't they eat with other (01:20:13) people they have a conversation they're (01:20:15) part of a community that's the (01:20:17) difference they've got something to live (01:20:19) for the olive oil isn't making any (01:20:21) [ __ ] difference the connection to (01:20:23) other human beings is what are you doing (01:20:26) here you're connecting to people you're (01:20:27) having a conversation so people are (01:20:29) eavesdropping on a conversation but in (01:20:31) their heads they're having a (01:20:32) conversation and they're the stuff we're (01:20:34) talking about they're relating to their (01:20:36) lives great nobody was asking for this (01:20:39) though nobody was saying do you know (01:20:40) what I want three hours of Jimmy Carr (01:20:42) talking about life no one was like (01:20:44) demanding that in the like B someone you (01:20:46) know someone roll rolling their eyes as (01:20:48) they listen to this yeah and I'm turning (01:20:50) off now but in that industry they (01:20:52) probably thought people want bigger TVs (01:20:53) and thinner TVs that's what they want (01:20:55) they want to watch the BBC on a thinner (01:20:57) bigger television so we're going to (01:20:58) deliver it to them whereas the the down (01:21:00) opportunity was in fact they wanted (01:21:02) connection they wanted it to be longer (01:21:04) form they didn't want loads of ads every (01:21:06) six seconds inside of it is this not the (01:21:08) great sort of if you're listening to (01:21:10) this and you're thinking right what am I (01:21:12) going to do it's like it's not like (01:21:15) someone has spotted the Gap in the (01:21:16) market you could be the person you know (01:21:18) and it's it's that thing of like do what (01:21:20) you do authentically um I I always think (01:21:23) like Joe Rogan's a really interesting (01:21:24) example of that of someone that's (01:21:26) entirely authentic what you talk about (01:21:29) comedy and MMA and life and slightly (01:21:33) kind of you (01:21:34) know philosophy stuff that he's (01:21:37) interested he's exactly the same guy he (01:21:39) was 20 years in The Comedy Store 20 (01:21:41) years ago in The Comedy Store back (01:21:42) backstage chatting he's exactly that guy (01:21:45) totally authentic and people just yeah (01:21:49) great I listen to that all day you're (01:21:52) exactly who you are I mean I love the (01:21:54) idea that you think there's still a bit (01:21:55) of you that thinks it's a business (01:21:56) podcast it's not it's not you re you (01:22:00) have a thing where you love stories and (01:22:02) you love chatting to people and you love (01:22:04) learning and that's what it is this is (01:22:06) just it's the this should be called the (01:22:08) education of Steven bartler well I the (01:22:10) reason I think this is a business (01:22:11) podcast is because of what I said I (01:22:13) think business is mental like this is (01:22:15) called The Diary of a CEO right what (01:22:17) would you find in the Diary of a CEO you (01:22:19) wouldn't find [ __ ] forecasts and pnls (01:22:21) would you you'd find problems with his (01:22:23) wife and you'd find that he's having anx (01:22:25) xiety attacks and you'd find that he's (01:22:26) doesn't know what the [ __ ] he's doing so (01:22:28) the whole point of this was to go into (01:22:30) the Diary of a CEO the things you that's (01:22:33) not business that's the rest of his life (01:22:36) this is about life I mean I I love it I (01:22:38) absolutely love it I'm not breaking your (01:22:39) balls but it's like it's it's uh it's (01:22:42) it's great the way that it's kind of (01:22:43) developed I think yeah it's been led by (01:22:46) as you say curiosity I get people all (01:22:48) the time will say Steve we want the (01:22:49) [ __ ] CEOs back we want to listen to (01:22:52) the business people or whatever and I (01:22:53) just go you know I can't do that for a (01:22:55) decade what I can do for a decade is (01:22:57) follow my curiosity like I could do that (01:22:59) for the next 30 40 years and at some (01:23:01) point I'm going to care about a zmek and (01:23:03) I cared about psychedelics and so that's (01:23:06) what I'm going to talk about and if you (01:23:07) don't like it then there are three other (01:23:08) million other options yeah I think that (01:23:11) thing about that's going with your gut (01:23:14) is going to be the way to go because if (01:23:16) you like the show and if you're having (01:23:17) interest in conversations I think the (01:23:19) listener will will go with that and if (01:23:22) you try and give them what they wanted I (01:23:24) think it's the it's exactly that thing (01:23:26) of going we need Better Faster Horses (01:23:28) not a car and you're going well you need (01:23:30) a car cuz whatever this is in 10 years (01:23:32) time it's going to be different right (01:23:34) it's going be it'll be something I'll (01:23:35) dad and I'll be thinking about a (01:23:36) different set of problems and I'll be (01:23:37) speaking to parental psychologists about (01:23:39) what F do with my kids and stuff yeah um (01:23:42) but Rogan was the blue I have to say it (01:23:44) and I think I've dm'd him it I don't (01:23:46) think he replied but I just said to him (01:23:47) one day that the blueprint he said about (01:23:50) authenticity and following whatever it (01:23:51) is you're interested in has helped me so (01:23:54) much because is there's more pressure to (01:23:57) change when there's more people watching (01:23:59) and they can I've seen petitions and (01:24:01) I've seen little movements on LinkedIn (01:24:03) trying to get me to have more of these (01:24:04) kind of people on the single biggest (01:24:06) request I have on this podcast is to (01:24:08) quote interview normal people that are (01:24:11) at the start of their Journey that's the (01:24:13) quote that's what they say to me um and (01:24:17) I go well if you'd interviewed Stephen (01:24:19) at (01:24:20) 18 yeah not a lot to talk about um you (01:24:24) know so it really be them interviewing (01:24:25) me maybe that tends to what happens who (01:24:28) would be the student in that situation (01:24:30) um but it's that's the most popular (01:24:32) request I get is to go and interview (01:24:35) quote unquote normal (01:24:37) people so yeah ignoring that I mean as (01:24:40) you must have been able had to ignore (01:24:41) the external pressure of changing or (01:24:43) telling a certain type of joke or being (01:24:45) a certain type of no I think I think I (01:24:47) think the audience though for me because (01:24:48) in that immediate feedback loop they do (01:24:50) tell me what they find funny and that (01:24:52) kind of leads you down the road of going (01:24:55) that's that's interesting people want to (01:24:56) hear this I think the reason people are (01:24:58) drawn to my comedy is partly because (01:25:00) there's not a lot of censorship in our (01:25:02) society there's quite a lot of self (01:25:05) censorship so people aren't speaking (01:25:07) freely in the office or even at home (01:25:11) they're not saying what they really (01:25:12) think if you notice this thing opinion (01:25:13) polls don't seem as accurate as they (01:25:14) once were and that's because people (01:25:16) don't feel like they don't vote in the (01:25:19) same way as they as they as they express (01:25:24) themselves in the world (01:25:25) so they come and see me live and there's (01:25:28) no filter and this guy's saying whatever (01:25:29) he wants this guy doesn't seem to give a (01:25:31) [ __ ] very (01:25:33) cathartic if you're spending your days (01:25:35) going well I know what the right thing (01:25:36) to say is so I'll say the right thing (01:25:38) you know if you want to see who has (01:25:39) power in a society who can't you (01:25:42) criticize and making jokes and making (01:25:44) light of all of that stuff is is (01:25:46) powerful because it it uh it's about (01:25:49) free speech and it's about um the (01:25:52) Overton window you know that Overton (01:25:54) window of what is and what isn't (01:25:55) acceptable to speak about you know so (01:25:58) there's an no window in politics of what (01:25:59) what is and what isn't acceptable policy (01:26:02) and then there's an overturn window of (01:26:03) what is and what isn't acceptable to (01:26:05) talk about in polite society and I think (01:26:07) comedy has a really valuable role in (01:26:09) moving that overturn window in what what (01:26:12) people can discuss what people can talk (01:26:13) about I'm always very interested in like (01:26:15) occasionally it happens where you'll (01:26:17) overhear the audience leaving a comedy (01:26:20) show and have such great (01:26:22) conversations it's really interesting (01:26:24) how it like just Taps into they just (01:26:26) feel a bit Freer and looser because (01:26:28) they've listened to someone on stage (01:26:30) being very loose and they're not (01:26:32) buttoned down they're not trying to (01:26:34) self-censor or say the right (01:26:36) thing self- expression and expression (01:26:38) generally has just been on such a (01:26:39) journey like you know this whole idea of (01:26:41) wokeism and what you can and can't say (01:26:44) it's I mean it really accelerated in the (01:26:45) last 10 years to the point that it's (01:26:47) it's quite you know it's quite if I look (01:26:50) back at comedy videos from 20 years ago (01:26:52) they really seem to just be able to say (01:26:54) whatever the [ __ ] they wanted to say and (01:26:56) then we went through this era of like (01:26:57) censorship and cancellation and there's (01:27:00) no time in human history where the good (01:27:02) guys have censored (01:27:04) stuff it's never happened so wherever (01:27:08) that's coming from whether it's the (01:27:10) right you know the marry White House ban (01:27:12) this filth which used to be the case or (01:27:15) the left the idea that the there's um (01:27:17) you know a hate speech or or the idea (01:27:21) that something could be words can be (01:27:23) violence um which is you know what (01:27:25) people say when they've never (01:27:26) experienced real violence I guess um the (01:27:29) there's such demand for violence we had (01:27:31) to we had to co-opt words into it but (01:27:33) the idea of going this you're trying to (01:27:35) censor stuff is is a bad idea free (01:27:38) speech is a very good idea because those (01:27:40) thoughts don't go away if people don't (01:27:42) express themselves they just get they (01:27:44) get suppressed and and actually just (01:27:46) speaking freely about stuff and talking (01:27:48) about it is is very very valuable when (01:27:50) you're trying to build something the (01:27:52) problem that we all face is we need to (01:27:54) talent and skills that we don't have (01:27:57) ourselves and we can waste so much time (01:27:59) trying to learn a new skill when really (01:28:02) what we should be doing is using a (01:28:04) platform like fiverr.com where you have (01:28:06) Global access to reviewed tried and (01:28:10) tested worldclass Talent at your (01:28:12) fingertips that you can access in a (01:28:15) flexible and affordable way fiver for me (01:28:17) when I was starting out in business was (01:28:19) a real unlock it was a bit of a hack (01:28:21) because I used to think that the only (01:28:23) way for me to add skills to to my (01:28:24) project was by hiring full-time staff (01:28:28) and bringing them into the office (01:28:29) fiver.com changes that and if you're in (01:28:32) that position now where there's a skill (01:28:33) you're missing for a project that (01:28:35) matters to you here's what you have to (01:28:36) do visit fiverr.com diary tolearn more (01:28:40) and here's the great thing if it doesn't (01:28:41) go well Fiverr offer a pretty amazing (01:28:43) money back guarantee so what are you (01:28:46) waiting (01:28:47) for if you were a podcaster would you (01:28:50) have anyone on the podcast would there (01:28:52) be any limits you would set that's (01:28:53) something I think about a lot where are (01:28:55) my limits because I get a lot of (01:28:56) messages saying would you have this (01:28:57) person on would you speak to Trump would (01:28:58) you speak to Vladimir Putin would you (01:29:00) speak to you know yeah I mean I think I (01:29:03) think you're I think you have to speak (01:29:04) to everyone I think the idea of going (01:29:07) that there's there's people that are (01:29:08) beyond the pale people have got like (01:29:10) there's people with bad ideas right I (01:29:11) don't know if there's that many bad (01:29:13) people but there's bad incentives and (01:29:15) people that follow them and talking to (01:29:17) everyone seems incredibly valuable to me (01:29:20) and the idea that you go yeah that's how (01:29:22) life moves forward you know there's you (01:29:24) know even you want to be a Marxist it's (01:29:25) a dialectic of going well this person I (01:29:27) don't agree with and you have the (01:29:29) conversation and with an open mind and (01:29:31) an open heart and maybe you change their (01:29:33) mind and how do you move the (01:29:34) conversation forward I mean the great (01:29:36) mystery for me in politics is the idea (01:29:38) that people talk about um Hypocrites in (01:29:41) politics changing their mind about (01:29:44) things of course he changed his mind the (01:29:47) facts have changed that the world's (01:29:49) changed you move (01:29:50) on Obama ran on an anti-gay marriage (01:29:54) ticket (01:29:55) but the world moves on and things (01:29:58) progress and you know I'm I'm you know a (01:30:01) progressive but I think the idea of not (01:30:03) listening to people is poison you know (01:30:07) you think about why Hillary lost the (01:30:10) election right it was that deplorables (01:30:12) thing remember when she talked about the (01:30:14) deplorables and you can't talk to those (01:30:16) people and it was like no those are (01:30:19) those are just working class people and (01:30:21) they've got they've got worries and you (01:30:23) need to talk to them about those worries (01:30:25) you can't just write them all off and go (01:30:27) well they're despicable people you know (01:30:30) that Urban Elite kind of thing you've (01:30:31) got to bring them in have the (01:30:33) conversation you'll get someone with it (01:30:37) you you know you have to listen to that (01:30:38) you have to listen to all the different (01:30:39) sides of the argument otherwise we're (01:30:41) entrenched we're just in these little (01:30:44) you know and it's it's that thing of (01:30:45) like it becomes uh identity you know (01:30:49) which party that you follow crazy people (01:30:52) don't like to follow people that they (01:30:53) disagree with online in particular (01:30:55) because that's creating cognitive (01:30:56) dissonance isn't it it's a constant (01:30:58) confrontation of a set of ideas that (01:31:00) threaten or challenge you in some way so (01:31:02) we'd rather just create this little Echo (01:31:03) chamber of individuals that will confirm (01:31:06) my set my set of existing beliefs and (01:31:09) that's what you know one of the things I (01:31:10) I made the decision to do about two (01:31:11) three years ago was just to follow (01:31:13) everyone that I am viscerally sort of (01:31:16) repulsed by should I say yeah and if you (01:31:18) had them on the show if you had people (01:31:19) on the show that you go I don't really (01:31:21) agree with what they say but yes yeah (01:31:23) it's I I feel like great to be back (01:31:27) yeah the uh that's interesting I think (01:31:30) that's really I think that's really (01:31:31) valuable I think that's a more (01:31:32) interesting conversation as well because (01:31:34) if you're just going to nod along with (01:31:36) someone and go well it's talking sense (01:31:37) that's great it's like you know and it I (01:31:40) think to have those kind of difficult (01:31:41) conversations is really it's a valuable (01:31:43) thing one thing you said which surprised (01:31:46) me because it didn't come at all up at (01:31:48) all in our previous conversation at all (01:31:51) and even in my prior research was you (01:31:53) said that you feel like you have a (01:31:54) lowlevel eating (01:31:56) disorder yeah I think I'm very uh very (01:31:59) conscious of my uh weight and my (01:32:02) appearance and I think that's (01:32:04) maybe uh Eating Disorders are very (01:32:08) they're very very serious things and I'm (01:32:09) not um I'm not really in that category (01:32:11) but I'm very aware of it like as a as a (01:32:14) man as well I was chatting to um Chris (01:32:16) Williamson on about this on uh modern (01:32:19) wisdom I think I think he was like (01:32:20) quoting the stat of saying men's uh body (01:32:24) morphia overtakes women's I think in the (01:32:26) next year in terms of kind of young men (01:32:29) looking at Instagram wanting to look a (01:32:30) certain way and presenting themselves a (01:32:32) certain way I think there there is kind (01:32:33) of an issue around it I think that weird (01:32:35) thing about like I've had a bit of work (01:32:37) done you know and had my teeth done and (01:32:40) my hair done and I think there is kind (01:32:42) of a there's something about being on (01:32:45) screen all the time that you get very (01:32:47) conscious of kind of uh and maybe it's (01:32:49) slightly a control thing have you always (01:32:52) had that um or is it developed I think (01:32:54) it's kind I think it's slightly (01:32:55) developed through sort of you know I (01:32:57) think if I wasn't on TV or on Netflix or (01:33:00) whatever I think you probably wouldn't (01:33:01) be as aware of how you how you present (01:33:05) yourself um so it's it's slightly odd (01:33:09) like thing slightly odd relationship (01:33:10) with I mean I I have kind of a theory (01:33:15) around um around drugs right drugs and (01:33:19) alcohol so I think marijuana when you (01:33:22) think about it like weed (01:33:24) uh is people are very Carefree about H (01:33:28) well that's just a bit of weed fine but (01:33:30) think about what it is right it's not an (01:33:32) performance-enhancing drug it's a (01:33:34) performance inhibiting drug right it (01:33:36) takes away your ambition and agency and (01:33:40) it just makes you very chilled and (01:33:43) relaxed and I don't think that's (01:33:45) appropriate for men in their 20s or (01:33:49) teenagers right actually what you want (01:33:51) is the performance and arting and I (01:33:53) think what we should be s promoting is (01:33:54) almost like prohibition I mean I did it (01:33:56) kind of organically I found comedy and I (01:33:59) gave up drinking for 12 years I didn't (01:34:03) touch a drop and that was mainly because (01:34:05) of Lifestyle because I was driving to (01:34:07) gigs and driving back and then I didn't (01:34:09) want to hang over the next day because I (01:34:11) I wanted to and everyone was trying to (01:34:12) buy you drinks all the time and it just (01:34:14) felt like it was like enough already I'm (01:34:16) going to be I'm going to be straight (01:34:17) edge which I always like the term (01:34:19) straight edge it's a punk rock term for (01:34:21) being T tootal straight edge it's cooler (01:34:24) right (01:34:25) mhm but I like the idea of going right (01:34:28) I'm going to control that I mean I drink (01:34:29) a little bit now kind of socially but uh (01:34:33) not in a problem way but giving up was (01:34:35) quite an important (01:34:36) thing because it was also the focus that (01:34:39) it gives you so I don't know I I kind of (01:34:41) I'm slightly uh slightly anti-drugs for (01:34:43) young people I slightly think men in (01:34:45) their 50s and 60s that that are (01:34:47) Workaholics maybe some marijuana (01:34:50) wouldn't be a bad (01:34:51) idea but it's the it's the idea of kind (01:34:54) of young people taking it and not having (01:34:56) and it's what does it take from you (01:34:59) takes away that kind of that that raw (01:35:01) ambition and that's as such a sort of (01:35:03) valuable thing in those years it's (01:35:05) almost like that advantage that young (01:35:06) people can't see the advantage that they (01:35:09) have they see the the the the wealth uh (01:35:13) and the you know the financial um (01:35:17) security of being 50 and when you're 20 (01:35:20) what you don't recognize is the energy (01:35:22) that you have when you're 20 that Inc (01:35:24) inredible Advantage you have over (01:35:26) everyone else in the office in that (01:35:27) you're (01:35:28) just you're just full of energy your 20 (01:35:32) years older than me exactly what advice (01:35:34) would you give to me that's unobvious as (01:35:36) a 31 year old you're 51 I believe yeah (01:35:39) what advice would you give to me that's (01:35:40) would be probably quite unobvious to me (01:35:42) at my age about the next sort of 20 (01:35:44) years of my life stay out the (01:35:47) sun stay out the sun sun damage is is (01:35:50) 90% of Aging stay out the sun honestly (01:35:53) you'll save a fortune plastic (01:35:55) surgeon uh the uh I don't know I mean I (01:35:58) think that you know I don't know if you (01:36:00) could be in a better place right now (01:36:03) than you are but you can certainly give (01:36:05) yourself gifts when you're 50 what gifts (01:36:09) do you want to give yourself let's talk (01:36:10) about what gifts you would like to (01:36:11) receive on your 51st birthday from (01:36:17) you interesting what would you like to (01:36:19) have I'd like to be physically fit so (01:36:23) done no problem at all you will need to (01:36:25) go to the gym three times a week and 80% (01:36:29) of it is going to be diet not exercise (01:36:32) okay so you're going to need to do that (01:36:34) but no problem at all I'm the genie you (01:36:37) got it what else would you like I would (01:36:39) like a happy healthy family and (01:36:42) relationship with my partner I'd like to (01:36:44) be married and I'd like her to be happy (01:36:47) and I'd like my kids to be happy (01:36:50) okay that's great I don't think you get (01:36:53) to call that (01:36:54) I think you get to be happy and you're (01:36:56) in charge of that and their happiness is (01:36:59) maybe a byproduct of that but you need I (01:37:03) I my perception would be you need the (01:37:05) locus of control to be within you you (01:37:07) could be happy make yourself happy and (01:37:09) that's good for the people around you (01:37:11) but I don't think someone else's (01:37:12) happiness can be your (01:37:14) responsibility you can set up all the (01:37:16) conditions and you can you can make it (01:37:17) as easy as you can (01:37:19) but you know that's that's that's a lot (01:37:22) but but I get the idea of it the (01:37:24) how many kids four four Jesus Christ all (01:37:29) right so four four kids so you're you're (01:37:31) in minivan territory already you can't (01:37:33) even drive a regular car this is crazy (01:37:35) this is (01:37:36) madness um four kids so one of each one (01:37:39) of each yeah a modern (01:37:41) world uh I love that all right what else (01:37:43) would you what else would you want in 20 (01:37:44) years time I'd like to still be doing a (01:37:46) business podcast you're not doing a (01:37:48) business podcast now very little (01:37:50) business in this no one ever talks about (01:37:53) supply and demand (01:37:54) nonsense um I think yeah the the that (01:37:58) stoic thing of like you still doing this (01:38:00) in 20 years time what a journey that (01:38:02) will (01:38:03) be like think about the people that you (01:38:05) will speak to think about the things (01:38:06) that you will learn think about the the (01:38:08) road that you're on and and actually if (01:38:10) you're open to speaking to everyone then (01:38:13) the Comm the lines of communication are (01:38:14) kept open and that's incredibly (01:38:16) important in the modern world where (01:38:18) people are uh uh uh in these you know (01:38:21) divided camps it's (01:38:25) important what gifts were most important (01:38:27) for you when you turned (01:38:29) 50 that you either had or hadn't given (01:38:31) yourself when you turned 50 you know you (01:38:33) look around on your your 50th birthday (01:38:35) about the gifts that you either have or (01:38:37) that you wish you had what are those (01:38:39) things I was in Australia last year on (01:38:42) tour and (01:38:45) I fairly arbitrarily I mean I was always (01:38:47) very good at trying new material and (01:38:48) doing sort of warm-up gigs and I just (01:38:50) went oh I'm going to try something new (01:38:52) I'm going to do new [ __ ] at at every (01:38:54) show I'm going to try I'm going to write (01:38:56) jokes during the day and then I'll try (01:38:57) them that night at every single (01:39:00) show and a year later I've got a new (01:39:04) show and it was so easy to put together (01:39:07) because it was just like every night (01:39:09) you're you're you're trying new new new (01:39:12) new and it forces you into that space of (01:39:14) writing more and more more and more and (01:39:17) I feel like I'm getting better you know (01:39:20) a year on you go that was yeah that was (01:39:23) that was easy and it was just little and (01:39:27) often how important is that the the (01:39:29) routines you know the small things (01:39:31) because I think there's kind of two (01:39:32) camps of people typically there's those (01:39:34) that think sweating the small stuff (01:39:35) matters and there's those that think (01:39:37) sweating the small stuff is (01:39:39) inconsequential and it's you know but it (01:39:43) seems that you know the people that I (01:39:45) seem to sit here with that are really (01:39:46) successful at what they do have a real (01:39:48) obsession with the detail I remember I (01:39:50) don't know if it's the small stuff I (01:39:52) think it's the important stuff (01:39:54) so I wouldn't swear anything other than (01:39:56) the joke writing and the performing on (01:39:58) stage everything else it's all small (01:40:02) stuff that's the important stuff and (01:40:04) focusing on that like knowing what's (01:40:05) important I guess would be the first (01:40:07) stage there but then yeah that's that (01:40:09) seems absolutely critical remember I sat (01:40:12) here with Walter isacon who followed (01:40:13) Elon Musk for two years and followed (01:40:14) Steve Jobs for two years before Steve (01:40:16) Jobs died um both two business people (01:40:19) he's not connected though no one thinks (01:40:20) it's his (01:40:21) fault no you're not you're not casting (01:40:23) any no no I'm not saying he did I'm not (01:40:24) saying he did but he said something to (01:40:26) me about how Steve Jobs would even make (01:40:28) the circuit board inside the iPhone look (01:40:31) beautiful and this came from Steve Jobs (01:40:33) father who who told him that he had to (01:40:35) paint the back of the fence as well even (01:40:37) though no one would ever see the back of (01:40:38) the fence because it was covered but he (01:40:40) said that truly great individuals care (01:40:43) equally about the parts that are unseen (01:40:45) you know the things you'll never see and (01:40:47) I always that's incredible that Steve (01:40:48) Jobs would care so much about making the (01:40:51) the circuit board inside this iPhone (01:40:53) look beautiful (01:40:54) and why is he doing that well is he (01:40:55) doing that because he will know you know (01:40:58) and I and that made me think about this (01:41:00) concept of your self story we have you (01:41:03) said reputation earlier which is the (01:41:04) external story of what people think of (01:41:05) you but everything we do writes this (01:41:07) self story about who I like when you (01:41:09) leave I I love this concept the idea (01:41:11) that we are a story We Tell ourselves (01:41:13) yeah and everything I'm doing is telling (01:41:14) me who I am so Chris Eubank Jr the the (01:41:17) son of the famous boxer Great boxer (01:41:18) himself says that he if he's on a (01:41:20) treadmill and he gets cramp in his leg (01:41:22) like really painful cramp in his leg no (01:41:24) one's in the gym but he told himself he (01:41:26) was going to do 20 km he says I I will (01:41:29) physically limp the last 8K yeah even (01:41:32) though no one's there of course why of (01:41:35) course because you you are who you who (01:41:39) you who you are like that's that how you (01:41:41) do anything is how you do (01:41:44) everything so he's all in he's he's that (01:41:48) guy great that's it's great that's a (01:41:51) good that's a great story because you go (01:41:53) yes well of course of course if you say (01:41:54) you're going to do it and then you're (01:41:55) the kind of person that does the thing (01:41:57) you (01:41:58) say it's powerful right if you keep a (01:42:01) little promise to yourself that's (01:42:03) powerful that changes your sort of (01:42:05) perception of self you can trust (01:42:06) yourself a little bit (01:42:07) more a lot of us pathologically let let (01:42:10) ourselves down in small ways and don't (01:42:11) really think those promises matter we (01:42:13) break commitments to oursel (01:42:14) pathologically okay but but you can but (01:42:17) you can change that right you can build (01:42:18) that up a little bit and we'll see the (01:42:21) results in 20 years time bit and healthy (01:42:24) and you got a family and kids and you're (01:42:26) doing great you're still doing this it's (01:42:30) great we'll see it I think you probably (01:42:32) you can't beat yourself up over (01:42:34) everything right you you have to choose (01:42:36) where to suffer you have to choose (01:42:38) what's the thing that matters to you and (01:42:40) don't just let yourself down on that so (01:42:42) maybe you're not going to do everything (01:42:44) okay fine do you think that's what (01:42:46) confidence is confidence and yeah (01:42:49) confidence in yourself is just a (01:42:52) combination and a culmination of the (01:42:54) commitments you kept to yourself and (01:42:56) what you Pro to yourself about yourself (01:42:59) I think that's uh I haven't thought (01:43:00) about it like that but that seems like a (01:43:02) very uh logical (01:43:04) conclusion you know it's that thing of (01:43:06) you want to give the world irrefutable (01:43:08) proof you are who you say you are well (01:43:10) the world and yourself there's a mirror (01:43:13) up as well are you who you say you are (01:43:16) yeah well great that's a that's a lovely (01:43:19) thing to be and to build that up in (01:43:20) small ways I mean that's really you're (01:43:21) talking about building character of (01:43:23) going well I'm going to make that (01:43:24) promise to myself and then I'm going to (01:43:25) I'm going to do it so you don't make (01:43:28) [ __ ] promises to yourself yeah New (01:43:30) Year resolutions are not a good idea (01:43:32) because if you're going to let yourself (01:43:34) down that's more damaging pick something (01:43:36) that you can (01:43:38) do pick something (01:43:40) small last time we spoke you expressed (01:43:43) an aspiration an ambition you had you (01:43:45) said I think we were talking about Dave (01:43:46) Chappelle and you said you wanted to do (01:43:48) longer form (01:43:50) jokes yeah so there's there's some stuff (01:43:52) in the new show so there's like 20 (01:43:54) minutes on being a dad um that I think (01:43:57) is really funny and I wanted it to fit (01:44:00) within my Persona as well because a lot (01:44:01) of people sort of become fathers and (01:44:03) they get a bit sentimental and they lose (01:44:05) some of their Edge so the stuff that (01:44:06) I've got about being a father is uh is (01:44:08) brutal but it's funny it's funny it's (01:44:11) it's a funny thing to to kind of (01:44:13) experience as well it's something kind (01:44:14) of new to talk about who's your favorite (01:44:16) comic of all time Chris Rock really (01:44:19) Chris Rock by yeah Chris Rock I think (01:44:21) the uh the the I had the great pleasure (01:44:24) of working with Chris as well and he's (01:44:26) an extraordinary Talent the uh the the (01:44:30) Rhythm and Cadence and the points that (01:44:33) he makes and the way that he sets up (01:44:34) material um the way that he delivers a (01:44:36) bunch line that just everything about it (01:44:38) from sort of a technical point of view I (01:44:39) admire and I love what he says I I I (01:44:43) just think he's he's he's just [ __ ] (01:44:45) hilarious and I see the work I see what (01:44:48) he does I see the work that he does now (01:44:50) he's he's been a legendary Next Level (01:44:54) performer for 30 years and he's still (01:44:58) working just as (01:44:59) hard and you got to love (01:45:03) that what did you make of this lap well (01:45:06) I mean obviously just I mean it's (01:45:09) there's no there's no um there's no (01:45:13) argument that's it's a it's a uh I I was (01:45:18) I was shocked you know it it strikes me (01:45:21) that uh Will Smith may be the greatest (01:45:24) actor of his (01:45:25) generation because he was pretending to (01:45:27) be an entirely different human being for (01:45:29) the last 40 (01:45:30) years and The Mask (01:45:34) slipped and we saw a a Yeah a different (01:45:38) side and I think Chris really the (01:45:41) extraordinary thing about that moment (01:45:43) was Chris Rock got slapped in the (01:45:45) face his level of (01:45:47) composure (01:45:49) was he was like a Hindu cow get slapped (01:45:53) in the face by a big dude right (01:45:56) hard I just got slapped in the face (01:45:58) that's going to be a huge TV moment (01:46:00) here's the (01:46:04) award he's to be admired incredible (01:46:09) man you were on stage as well you know a (01:46:12) couple of months after when Dave (01:46:14) Chappelle was attacked I actually saw (01:46:17) you in the back I remember seeing you (01:46:18) sort of come out and just you you kind (01:46:19) of looked a little bit like security but (01:46:21) maybe not the most yeah me me well (01:46:23) security (01:46:24) so when when Dave got rushed uh and it (01:46:28) was very scary because you know it could (01:46:30) have gone another way um you know the (01:46:32) guy had a knife orbe it a knife in a gun (01:46:36) it was it was a it was a kind of a fake (01:46:38) gun that pressed a button and a knife (01:46:40) came out it was a it was a um (01:46:43) yes it was it was it was a knife that (01:46:46) identified as a gun maybe I don't know (01:46:47) anyway so um yeah I remember I was (01:46:50) standing with Jeff Ross on the side of (01:46:51) the stage and then and then this this (01:46:52) thing happened it was yeah it was it's (01:46:55) crazy crazy (01:46:57) scary had he got his ass beat the person (01:47:00) that ran out and got stomped out by like (01:47:04) well he got the reason he got stomped (01:47:06) out wasn't it wasn't um uh malice it was (01:47:09) he wouldn't let go of the gun knife so (01:47:12) the guy had a gun what looked like a gun (01:47:14) I mean it was a gun and he wouldn't let (01:47:17) go of it and they I think um the (01:47:20) security guys um uh broke his arm (01:47:24) getting the getting the gun off him yeah (01:47:26) but what are you going to do let the guy (01:47:28) have the gun like it's a it's yeah it's (01:47:31) very yeah pretty scary uh scary thing (01:47:35) are CH times changing in terms of (01:47:37) violence towards comedians is think so I (01:47:40) think they're they're isolated into uh (01:47:41) Eddie Murphy had the best line on it (01:47:43) Eddie Murphy said uh he said Will Smith (01:47:46) when he slapped Chris Rock rang the (01:47:48) dyner bell for (01:47:51) crazy all the crazies came out for a (01:47:53) couple couple of weeks the guy rushes um (01:47:56) Chappelle it's not it's not a great (01:47:59) situation I mean it's like it's it's a (01:48:01) scary thing when you think you know (01:48:02) friends getting rushed by someone with a (01:48:04) knife and you sort of think of what (01:48:06) could have happened but he was fine and (01:48:10) obviously you know was shaken in the (01:48:11) moment but he was pretty pretty (01:48:13) philosophical about it anyone ever (01:48:15) attacked you on stage no I mean (01:48:18) threatened you yeah I've been I've been (01:48:20) threatened a little bit but okay (01:48:25) not part of the game I guess I mean it's (01:48:27) like it's that weird thing of like when (01:48:30) you there's a there's a routine in it I (01:48:32) talk a little bit about uh being (01:48:33) canceled on the on the special and you (01:48:36) talk about like what I'm going to do (01:48:38) next time because it's going to happen (01:48:39) again right so the next time I get (01:48:40) canceled I've got a plan here's what I'm (01:48:41) going to do I'm going to say I've (01:48:43) rehearsed this I'm going to make a (01:48:44) public statement on the day the news (01:48:46) story breaks I'm going to say I'm sorry (01:48:49) and the people that are offended will (01:48:50) say you don't really mean that apology (01:48:53) and I'll say so you're saying I could (01:48:54) say something and not mean it now you're (01:48:57) getting (01:48:58) it a (01:49:01) smart but it's that it's they're jokes (01:49:03) you can't go around apologizing for (01:49:06) jokes I'm exceptionally excited to sit (01:49:09) down and watch your Netflix special (01:49:10) Natural Born Killer which came out on (01:49:12) April 16th there's been a lot of (01:49:14) conversation around it because I think a (01:49:16) lot of people are acknowledging that (01:49:17) you've adopted a slightly different (01:49:19) style to the past and everyone's excited (01:49:20) to see this this newer Jimmy this (01:49:23) this heavily iterated optimized version (01:49:27) of Jimmy that's taken 51 years to (01:49:29) produce and I always talk to people (01:49:31) about our last conversation and you (01:49:32) telling me that even you at at the peak (01:49:35) of the mountain in many people's eyes (01:49:36) are still trying to find small marginal (01:49:39) gains and and challenge yourself and (01:49:41) come out of your comfort zone and I (01:49:43) think that's exactly what you do in this (01:49:45) special I've been fortunate enough to (01:49:46) see some of the the jokes and the angles (01:49:48) in the special and I think for some (01:49:50) reason it feels to me like Society needs (01:49:53) to have some of these conversations as (01:49:54) well so what even though there is humor (01:49:56) there underneath the the jokes you tell (01:49:58) there's um I think there's an underlying (01:50:00) important message that's greeting (01:50:01) Society at the right (01:50:03) moment I very much appreciate that is (01:50:05) that accurate is that an accurate (01:50:07) assessment I think it is I think it's it (01:50:09) has it is different to the last special (01:50:11) and it's got more of me in it and it's (01:50:14) like I'm in a very privileged position (01:50:16) where people you know some people listen (01:50:18) to me uh and I have my audience I know (01:50:20) what my audience are so I can I can get (01:50:23) a message in under the wire uh that (01:50:26) other people can't really talk about and (01:50:27) so that thing of going if I'm doing sex (01:50:30) ed I do sex ed in my way and it's very (01:50:32) funny but it's getting a message across (01:50:34) to young men that I think is very (01:50:38) valuable I'm excited to listen (01:50:40) specifically about the stuff about (01:50:41) consent very very excited Jimmy we have (01:50:44) a closing tradition on this podcast (01:50:45) where the last guest leaves a question (01:50:46) for the next guest not knowing who (01:50:47) they're going to be leaving it for oh (01:50:49) well I've given this literally no (01:50:51) thought so right okay I don't get to see (01:50:54) it either which is funny people don't (01:50:55) believe me when I say that but okay (01:50:57) what's the have I got a question you (01:50:59) have got a question that's been left for (01:51:00) you the question that's been left for (01:51:02) you is what would you tell your (01:51:04) 20-year-old self that you wish you knew (01:51:07) and that would have positively impacted (01:51:10) your life and helped you to avoid (01:51:13) unnecessary (01:51:17) pain I think I would have said enjoy (01:51:20) yourself more (01:51:24) try and be more present I think I was uh (01:51:27) I think I was worried about the results (01:51:29) and not the process at that age I think (01:51:31) I was worried about what kind of degree (01:51:33) I would get uh and working hard and I (01:51:35) should have been worried about having (01:51:37) more (01:51:38) fun what's telling you in hindsight that (01:51:40) that's the important thing you needed to (01:51:43) hear at that point what was the symptom (01:51:45) of not hearing that I think it was I (01:51:48) think there's a there's a weird thing in (01:51:49) uh if you're in Academia and you have (01:51:52) that imposter syndrome and you feel like (01:51:55) oh oh God what's what's I don't belong (01:51:59) here I'm not bright enough I need to (01:52:00) work harder that's valuable in one sense (01:52:02) it makes you kind of work harder but (01:52:03) actually you know should have what's (01:52:06) what what's college for it's just for (01:52:08) growing up be in the moment I what do (01:52:12) you think of (01:52:13) University I think University is a (01:52:15) luxury item now I think the intrinsic (01:52:18) value of university is less important (01:52:21) than the what it signals about you so I (01:52:24) think a degree from Cambridge is a Louis (01:52:27) Vuitton bag it's a luxury item that says (01:52:30) oh I have this um you can just get the (01:52:33) reading list and read the books I'm not (01:52:35) sure whether whether (01:52:37) academia's you know I don't know I've (01:52:39) got strong views on Academia because I (01:52:41) was when I went to University it was (01:52:43) free right it was very difficult to get (01:52:45) in but it was free and I think we should (01:52:48) bring that back I think if you're doing (01:52:50) let's say stem right let's say you're (01:52:52) studying any stem subject University (01:52:54) should be free in the UK and if you get (01:52:57) a stem degree from anywhere else in the (01:52:59) world it should come with um British (01:53:03) passport (01:53:04) attached come spend some time here great (01:53:08) it's not a bad (01:53:10) policy your kid turns to you one day and (01:53:12) says daddy (01:53:14) I'm I want to be a (01:53:18) magician what' you say to your kid they (01:53:21) want to be a a a magician or they say (01:53:23) that I want to be an NBA player let's do (01:53:25) that one what' you say to your kid wait (01:53:27) go back become a magician um uh I I (01:53:31) don't know I mean listen it's it's uh I (01:53:35) suppose it's that thing of like follow (01:53:36) your (01:53:37) dreams if they're hiring it's Chris (01:53:41) rocks line isn't it yeah Follow Your (01:53:43) Passion if they're hiring if you if if (01:53:46) you're good at that if you're I don't (01:53:49) know if my kid winds up being 7 foot I'd (01:53:50) be surprised but if he is then maybe (01:53:52) maybe then you know maybe there's a (01:53:54) maybe there's a future in it but (01:53:56) the yeah pick something that seems (01:53:59) realistic to you have you got a bias (01:54:01) about what you want your son to do uh (01:54:05) honestly because we all have I would (01:54:07) have a I would have a bit of a bias I I (01:54:10) mean I don't know I don't know what jobs (01:54:12) are going to be in 30 years time right (01:54:14) you you want your kid to be happy and (01:54:16) maybe maybe to have some sort of uh (01:54:20) grounding in critical thinking and (01:54:22) beyond that I know good luck Jimmy thank (01:54:26) you our first conversation really blew (01:54:28) me away and it it taught me something (01:54:30) about actually about this podcast you're (01:54:33) one of the real defining conversations I (01:54:35) had that taught me that (01:54:37) everyone is much more (01:54:40) than the surface that you see and it's (01:54:42) funny cuz when last time when we (01:54:44) recorded it was upstairs in my kitchen (01:54:46) my previous kitchen and the team text me (01:54:48) when you arrived and they said oh Jimmy (01:54:49) car's just arrived I think you arrived (01:54:50) on your bicycle or something and they're (01:54:52) like oh God he's just act a joke about (01:54:53) someone's mom downstairs and I thought (01:54:55) oh this is this is Jimmy car the Jimmy (01:54:57) car I've seen on nine out of 10 cats and (01:54:58) then we went upstairs and had that (01:54:59) conversation and it just blew my mind it (01:55:03) just absolutely blew my mind well this (01:55:04) is the difficult second album how did I (01:55:06) do oh fantastic oh great fantastic (01:55:09) absolutely but no it really it taught me (01:55:11) that um people are much more than than (01:55:14) just the the mask that we wear and we (01:55:15) all wear a mask you know Persona to get (01:55:18) through life and we find it easier (01:55:19) sometimes to wear the mask than to (01:55:20) confront who we actually are but in that (01:55:22) ation I feel like I got to meet The Man (01:55:24) Behind the Mask per se and I I really (01:55:27) like sharing that side of myself I I I (01:55:29) really enjoy this I really enjoy the (01:55:30) show I wish you every success thank you (01:55:33) so much Jimmy thank you for everything (01:55:34) and I highly recommend everybody go and (01:55:35) see Natural Born Killer which is on (01:55:37) Netflix right now I'm going to put the (01:55:38) link to the Netflix special in the (01:55:40) description below (01:55:44) [Music] (01:55:53) a (01:55:58) [Music]