Parenting hacks to raise happy kids | Dr Justin Coulson | Unstoppable EP30 (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) [Music] (00:00:02) hello everybody and welcome to the (00:00:03) latest episode of unstoppable my name is (00:00:05) kwin Ray and it would make sense that (00:00:06) I'm your host and today I chat with (00:00:08) another parenting expert Dr Justin (00:00:10) Coulson Justin is the author behind the (00:00:12) 21 days to happier family and the 10 (00:00:14) things every parent needs to know he (00:00:16) writes weekly columns for the Sydney (00:00:17) Daily Telegraph and appears regularly on (00:00:20) shows like the project The Today Show (00:00:21) and Studio 10 Dr Justin knows a thing or (00:00:24) two about successful parenting (00:00:25) discipline and how to work with your (00:00:27) children and not against them so for (00:00:28) those of you with kids that are unruly (00:00:30) you're looking to learn how to (00:00:31) discipline this is a podcast for you and (00:00:32) if you haven't checked her out already (00:00:34) we also have another incredible podcast (00:00:35) with parenting expert Dr Vanessa Le (00:00:37) point that you want to check out also (00:00:39) stay tuned for this (00:00:40) [Music] (00:00:43) one ladies and gentlemen it's a real (00:00:45) honor to welcome Dr Justin Coulson great (00:00:48) to have you Dr Jay so good to be here (00:00:49) can I call you Dr J uh you can call me (00:00:51) whatever you want I'll smile and say (00:00:53) that's fine no problem at all you (00:00:55) mighton be the first person you clearly (00:00:57) are a parenting expert to be able to say (00:00:58) something like that cuz you got to be (00:00:59) able to deal with a lot of stuff you (00:01:00) know as a parenting as a parent but as a (00:01:02) parenting expert we really do need to (00:01:04) build thick skins don't we yeah you know (00:01:06) I think it's not even just about (00:01:07) parenting and I think this will come out (00:01:09) a lot as we discussed today it's about (00:01:10) relationships and life really isn't it (00:01:12) right and if you can navigate the (00:01:14) unexpected that gets thrown at you with (00:01:16) with an unusual name or uh or or far (00:01:19) worse with employees or toddlers who (00:01:22) sometimes hand us unwanted output um (00:01:25) either verbally or in their actions if (00:01:27) you can deal with that well your (00:01:29) relationships will be smooth smooth and (00:01:31) and easy and life is so much better and (00:01:34) so funny we went there really fast (00:01:36) because parenting and leadership are the (00:01:39) same thing yeah straight I'm cut to the (00:01:40) chase let's straight to the chase (00:01:42) because I've said to you know because we (00:01:43) obviously work with entrepreneurs but a (00:01:44) lot of our a huge amount of our client (00:01:46) base you about I think it's like almost (00:01:48) 95% of our followers our parents yeah uh (00:01:51) and what's what I've said to them as in (00:01:53) business like can you imagine walking up (00:01:54) to an employee and when they do (00:01:55) something wrong screaming at them and (00:01:56) smacking them or say go go to your (00:01:58) office and think about what you've done (00:01:59) go the corner think (00:02:01) 42 43 minutes in the corner to think (00:02:03) about this for goodness sakes okay so (00:02:05) for people who don't know Dr Dr J Dr (00:02:07) Justin Coulson quick blur who are you (00:02:10) what do you do why are we going to (00:02:11) listen all right uh let's do the the 30 (00:02:13) second version I I grew up in New South (00:02:15) Wales on the Central Coast wanted to be (00:02:17) a radio announcer all my life U once I (00:02:19) finished school I did a couple of years (00:02:20) of volunteer work and then became a (00:02:22) radio announcer spent about a decade as (00:02:24) a radio DJ had a couple of kids aged (00:02:27) three and zero and had this awful (00:02:31) experience one day and it was one of (00:02:33) several unfortunately but this was a (00:02:35) particularly bad one where I just I (00:02:37) treated my three-year-old so badly and (00:02:40) and it did you lock him in a Cupboard (00:02:42) far worse I I I lost the it was it was (00:02:45) one of those afternoons where I was (00:02:46) exhausted I hadn't slept the night (00:02:48) before you know cuz I'm living the radio (00:02:49) DJ life right so Friday night I'm out (00:02:50) till all hours I'm up at stupid o' to to (00:02:54) to work on the radio from 6:00 till (00:02:56) midday uh at brisbane's B 105 where we (00:02:58) you know oh my God I grew up in Brisbane (00:03:01) 105 Jamie dun yeah so I worked with (00:03:03) those guys I was on be well we played (00:03:05) all today's best music while you worked (00:03:07) and um and and I've gotten home I've had (00:03:10) 2 hours sleep and you know when you're (00:03:11) on the radio you've got to sound like (00:03:12) you're having the best day ever and so (00:03:14) I'm pushing back the exhaustion I get (00:03:16) home it's one of those hot Brisbane (00:03:18) afternoons I'm shattered my wife says to (00:03:20) me I got to go out um I'm going to leave (00:03:23) the two kids with you and I'm like oh (00:03:24) I've just got to sleep I'm wrecked and (00:03:27) Kylie says to me no no no no no it's (00:03:29) okay the baby's just gone to sleep and (00:03:31) Chanel our three-year-old she's going to (00:03:32) be ready for a sleep in you know the (00:03:34) next 15 minutes or so put her to sleep (00:03:36) I'll be back before the kids wake up (00:03:37) you'll be fine Famous Last Words you'll (00:03:40) be fine and so I'm like okay cool no (00:03:42) problem I've gone to put Chanel to sleep (00:03:44) and if you've ever had a three-year-old (00:03:45) yeah mine's just turned four I've seen (00:03:47) your little guy yeah and um you know (00:03:49) they get to that point when they're (00:03:50) through where they're sort of going uh (00:03:53) no I don't want to sleep in the middle (00:03:54) of the day anymore I'm too big for that (00:03:56) now and and as a that was the day that (00:03:59) was the day and as exhausted parent (00:04:02) who's completely clueless I'm just a (00:04:03) regular dad at this point I've got no (00:04:05) idea about parenting I'm like oh I don't (00:04:07) think so you're going to sleep and and (00:04:09) and if you've ever tried to negotiate (00:04:11) with a toddler yeah well you know (00:04:14) thought well the thing is negotiating (00:04:15) with children is like negotiating with a (00:04:17) terrorist but the difference being is (00:04:18) you can actually negotiate with a (00:04:19) terrorist they might talk to you yeah (00:04:21) and so the the three in fact one of my (00:04:23) favorite things to say is um when our (00:04:25) children don't get our attention in (00:04:27) civil ways you they will result to (00:04:29) terrorism they they just that's so true (00:04:31) they go and so no no toddler has ever (00:04:35) looked at their parent when their parent (00:04:36) has gotten very logical and said well (00:04:37) excuse me but you do need to go to sleep (00:04:39) you're exhausted I'm exhausted and we're (00:04:40) all going to be better for it no Toler (00:04:42) has ever said you know what Dad you're (00:04:44) exactly right thanks for laying it out (00:04:45) for me so clearly and so and so I've (00:04:49) escalated yeah and she's escalated and I (00:04:52) said well I'll see your escalation and (00:04:53) I'll raise it again and we're going up (00:04:55) and up and up and next thing you know (00:04:56) there's you know I I whacked her and I (00:04:58) just it was horrible and eventually she (00:05:02) fell asleep behind the door cuz I held (00:05:04) the door while she kicked it and (00:05:06) screamed and all that sort of thing and (00:05:07) and it was just an awful awful (00:05:09) experience and I I walked into the (00:05:10) because I wasn't going to sleep after (00:05:12) that I don't know if you've noticed it's (00:05:13) hard to go to sleep when you're angry (00:05:14) and riled (00:05:15) up not not a good recipe for sleep and (00:05:19) so I've walked into the backyard I'm (00:05:20) like for the first time in my life I've (00:05:22) got I'm a bad parent I I'm a bad dad and (00:05:27) it really affected me that's humbling it (00:05:29) it it it my world and and I wish I could (00:05:31) say that was the only time I got it (00:05:32) wrong but when you don't have the skills (00:05:35) and you don't have the you don't have (00:05:37) any idea how to do this you you just (00:05:41) kind of don't know where to go so you (00:05:42) keep making those mistakes and and I (00:05:44) spoke to my wife and said I this is what (00:05:46) happened I I blew it um and we discussed (00:05:49) a few things and I started to do some (00:05:51) research and I ended up quitting my (00:05:52) radio career I went back to school I (00:05:53) spent 8 and a half years as a full-time (00:05:55) student wow graduated with a PhD in (00:05:58) Psychology so that and on the only only (00:06:00) person in the country only person in (00:06:01) Australia who has a PHD in positive (00:06:03) psychology and parenting yeah right (00:06:05) because I wanted to become the best at I (00:06:07) could be now I've still messed things up (00:06:09) along the way but along the way I've (00:06:11) I've written three or four books about (00:06:12) parenting now and I I speak in uh (00:06:15) internationally and all around Australia (00:06:17) excuse me and and basically teach people (00:06:19) how to get their relationships right and (00:06:21) how to boost their well-being they're (00:06:24) interconnected but they're also separate (00:06:25) things yeah right and that's that's who (00:06:27) I am and what I do now that's the well (00:06:29) sorry we got side track with the story (00:06:30) but that's a short but no I think that (00:06:32) encapsulates it oh sorry and I've got (00:06:33) six kids six kids would qualify anyone (00:06:36) to become at least people with six kids (00:06:39) who aren't qualified int cool what age (00:06:41) what are the ages of your kids six kids (00:06:42) so so our our eldest daughter is 18 (00:06:44) she's just started uni uh then we've got (00:06:46) a 15-year-old daughter a 14-year-old (00:06:48) daughter a 10-year-old daughter a (00:06:50) seven-year-old daughter and a (00:06:50) three-year-old daughter do you ever get (00:06:52) their names wrong from time to time do (00:06:54) they take it personally uh yeah depends (00:06:56) on the age they they hate it yeah right (00:06:58) but but you know I give a hug and get (00:07:01) their name right and we're okay yeah so (00:07:04) six daughters age between uh three (00:07:06) that's the you're destroying my life age (00:07:09) and 18 that's the would you just move (00:07:11) out of my house please age um and and we (00:07:14) we're just crazy about them and to (00:07:15) answer the questions that everybody's (00:07:16) thinking but nobody is impolite enough (00:07:18) to ask we do have a TV we weren't trying (00:07:20) for a boy and we're just happy with six (00:07:22) thanks for (00:07:24) asking okay so parenting and again I (00:07:26) think this is an incredible and the (00:07:28) reason we brought you on and again one (00:07:29) of the reasons we spoke to Vanessa who (00:07:30) you know you're you're a colleague of (00:07:32) we're talking about how do we actually (00:07:33) you know give ourselves the best (00:07:35) possible chance as parents but also to (00:07:38) give the kids the best possible chance (00:07:39) as children to grow up as healthy as (00:07:42) happy as grounded and you know (00:07:44) functional human beings so when we talk (00:07:46) about parenting why is it that so many (00:07:49) people so many of us actually screw it (00:07:51) up in the first place uh because it's (00:07:53) happened to us and it's guaranteed that (00:07:55) we will do it as well you know there's (00:07:57) there's no way that we're not going to (00:07:58) mess up our kids in some way sorry (00:08:00) that's a really nihilistic way of (00:08:01) viewing things but thanks for listening (00:08:03) everybody you've just (00:08:05) screwed you've made a mess of it already (00:08:07) the the goal is to make less of a mess (00:08:09) of it this time than our parents did for (00:08:10) us or do you know what I mean yeah (00:08:12) absolutely and so we're going to get it (00:08:14) wrong we we have we have deeply (00:08:17) ingrained unhealthy relationship (00:08:19) patterns whether it's our defensiveness (00:08:21) and our stonewalling or whether it's the (00:08:23) way we attack uh and just go at a (00:08:26) situation because this is you know we're (00:08:27) not happy with the way somebody does (00:08:29) something and we think we've got to (00:08:30) respond to it right here and right now (00:08:32) um I I hope I don't embarrass my parents (00:08:35) too much by saying this but my mom was (00:08:36) raised in a home where where when there (00:08:39) was something on your mind you talked (00:08:40) about it and you didn't just talk about (00:08:42) it you got clear air as fast as you can (00:08:44) and sometimes that would mean being (00:08:46) abrupt and direct and and that can be (00:08:49) that can really great on somebody (00:08:51) especially if they're a little bit more (00:08:52) uh empathic and a little bit more (00:08:54) patient and a little more uh well my dad (00:08:57) he was raised in a home where you you (00:08:58) hold your tongue and and you are patient (00:09:01) and you think through things and you you (00:09:03) just let things go away and so you've (00:09:07) got these two people with such a (00:09:09) contrasting view of conflict and then (00:09:12) they're raising children who are are (00:09:15) getting hit by a mom who's like what did (00:09:17) you do that for that was silly you know (00:09:19) that kind of thing not that I'm my mom (00:09:21) is is amazing I'm I'm I'm exaggerating (00:09:23) certain aspects for for for illustrative (00:09:25) purposes and then you've got a dad who (00:09:27) says well let's just give them time to (00:09:29) think about it and so you've got (00:09:30) parental conflict but you've also got (00:09:32) these differing Styles coming in at the (00:09:34) kids and and it does impact on the way (00:09:36) the kids respond and then you have a (00:09:38) parent who maybe calls their child a (00:09:40) name and the child starts to think I'm (00:09:42) not good enough I'm stupid that's it I'm (00:09:44) an idiot yeah or or you've got a parent (00:09:46) who says something so benign as I don't (00:09:48) worry about it I was never good at (00:09:49) Athletics either I was the worst swimmer (00:09:51) in the school as well and the kids start (00:09:53) to develop this mindset that (00:09:56) says well I guess genetically and (00:09:59) inherently I'm not going to be any good (00:10:01) at that either and and we start to (00:10:03) create these patterns this thinking you (00:10:05) know you might have a parent who's (00:10:06) exactly the opposite I I want to rais (00:10:08) the best kids ever and so they teach (00:10:09) their kids you can do anything you've (00:10:11) just got to tough it out and so here's (00:10:13) this kid who hates playing the piano but (00:10:18) they've got a parent who's gone all (00:10:19) tiger mom and says you're going to sit (00:10:21) here and you're going to do it because I (00:10:22) know that you can and you're going to (00:10:24) thank me for this one day and so it (00:10:26) seems like almost no matter what we do (00:10:28) we're gonna cause our children to have (00:10:31) some really significant challenges as (00:10:33) they work through their own processes (00:10:35) and and try to become who they really (00:10:36) are but is challenges spectrum is it (00:10:38) important for for kids to have healthy (00:10:40) levels of challeng because what we're (00:10:41) talking about here is we're all going to (00:10:42) make mistakes and we're not going to be (00:10:43) perfect but it's about minimizing the (00:10:45) level of which we go to to make mistakes (00:10:47) so that we don't necessarily impact them (00:10:48) in a way where trauma is created that (00:10:51) could you know lead to other issues down (00:10:53) the track a story and a metaphor I'm in (00:10:55) the back of a cab I'm on the way to a (00:10:57) venue so I can give a talk somewhere and (00:10:58) the cabby says to so what do you do for (00:11:01) work and I'm like I'm trying to email (00:11:03) people here I'm trying to make calls (00:11:05) leave me alone but but because I'm I'm a (00:11:07) builder I'm in real estate something (00:11:09) anything but and so I I side and I put (00:11:12) my phone down because I I value (00:11:14) connection and I value helping people (00:11:15) and and frankly I would rather make this (00:11:17) Cab's day than get that email fired off (00:11:20) and so I said well you know I um I write (00:11:22) books about parenting and I and (00:11:24) relationships and being happy and I give (00:11:26) talks and I'm going to give a talk right (00:11:28) now about parenting and he said ah he (00:11:30) said I have a question for you is the (00:11:33) normal response normal response I'm like (00:11:35) yeah I figured you'd have one is my cab (00:11:37) ride Freak because you're about to ask (00:11:38) for this free advice he's like no you (00:11:40) pay for the cab I'm that's okay I'll (00:11:41) give you free advice anyway he says how (00:11:43) do I make sure that my son becomes a (00:11:44) pilot wow wow no pressure no pressure (00:11:48) and I said wow yeah and exactly the same (00:11:50) response gun every day and so we talked (00:11:53) about a whole lot of things and (00:11:54) eventually I steered the conversation (00:11:55) around to does it matter uh what your (00:11:58) son becomes or does it matter who your (00:12:02) son becomes and we shifted the (00:12:04) conversation from you know titles and (00:12:07) and careers to character and and I asked (00:12:09) him I said to him tell me about your dad (00:12:12) and he said um because he told me his he (00:12:15) he wanted his son to be a pilot so he'd (00:12:16) be successful because he was just a taxi (00:12:17) driver and I said tell me about your dad (00:12:19) and he said well he lives in India uh (00:12:21) and he's a peasant farmer uh and he he (00:12:25) you know he has nothing he has nothing (00:12:26) at all he thinks that we live so wealthy (00:12:29) here in Australia (00:12:30) and I said how do you feel about your (00:12:31) dad what kind of person is he and he he (00:12:33) got quite emotional he got a bit weepy (00:12:35) and he just he talked about these (00:12:37) beautiful character attributes that his (00:12:39) father had he's a hard worker and he's (00:12:40) honest and he he gives everything for (00:12:43) anybody and and I said does that you (00:12:45) know does that light you up does that (00:12:47) make you feel enlivened and enlarged (00:12:49) when you think about those (00:12:50) characteristics he said yeah yeah yeah (00:12:52) it does I said do you think that your (00:12:55) son will look at you and say to youou (00:12:57) were just a taxi driver I said you know (00:13:00) how will he see you if you see your dad (00:13:02) like that and and it really changed the (00:13:04) conversation he was like yeah he'll see (00:13:06) me as a hard worker he'll see me as (00:13:07) somebody who loved his children and (00:13:09) would do anything for them and so we had (00:13:11) this wonderful conversation about who (00:13:13) not what do you want your son to be and (00:13:15) my last question for him before I got (00:13:16) out the cab was so tell me how old your (00:13:18) son is anyway he said he's two weeks (00:13:21) old (00:13:24) wow I said forget the pilot thing just (00:13:27) raise him to be a great kid so that's (00:13:29) that's that's the story The (00:13:31) metaphor is um has escaped me I got (00:13:34) caught up with the story it'll come back (00:13:36) to me later will come back to you in a (00:13:37) moment um but but the the thing here is (00:13:39) we we want to help our kids to work out (00:13:41) who they really are uh and and forcing (00:13:44) them into oh the metaphor there it is (00:13:46) it's come back to me in terms of dealing (00:13:48) with challenge you you you raised this (00:13:50) idea kids have got to go through some (00:13:51) tough stuff and they do so that they can (00:13:54) work out who they are and I liken it to (00:13:57) in my book nine ways to a resilient (00:13:59) child liking it to this idea of a (00:14:01) balance beam you remember you're at (00:14:02) school and you got to walk across the (00:14:03) balance beam and there's somebody on (00:14:06) either side of you they've got their (00:14:07) arms outstretched so that if you (00:14:09) overbalance they can break your (00:14:11) fall and and and as you start to tip (00:14:14) they just put their hands on you and (00:14:15) sort of tip you back onto the beam and I (00:14:17) think that's what our job is as parents (00:14:19) we put our kids on the balance beam we (00:14:22) don't want them to fall and land and (00:14:23) break bones but we do want them to walk (00:14:25) across the beam on their own and so we (00:14:28) walk beside them to support them and if (00:14:29) they start to tip we might give them a (00:14:31) little nudge back onto the beam we're (00:14:32) there to just make sure that they don't (00:14:34) fall and hurt themselves too badly and (00:14:36) if they do fall and we can't quite stop (00:14:38) them at least we can arrest the fall we (00:14:40) can break the fall and they can have (00:14:41) that fall slowed because we're there (00:14:43) beside them so yes they do need to face (00:14:45) challenges they don't get strong you (00:14:46) know you don't become a well you don't (00:14:49) get a body like yours kwin by not going (00:14:50) to the gym and working out you know (00:14:52) you've got to have that I think he's (00:14:53) hitting on me hit on me you you've got (00:14:56) you've got to have that resistance the (00:14:57) resistance make you makes you stronger (00:14:59) but this idea that you've got to tell (00:15:01) people to toughen up yeah toughen up (00:15:03) princess drink some concrete yeah uh the (00:15:05) research would suggest that that's not (00:15:07) the best way to make people stronger (00:15:08) it's not the best way to make them (00:15:09) resilient in fact repeated failure (00:15:13) experiences tend to destroy resilience (00:15:16) repeated success experiences tend to (00:15:19) build resilience so long as there's an (00:15:22) appropriate level of weight to push (00:15:24) against so let's let's let's move back a (00:15:26) little bit cuz obviously research is (00:15:27) where everything is transformed and in (00:15:29) terms of the way that we View Early (00:15:31) Childhood the way that we view early (00:15:32) childhood development but also the (00:15:33) things that are required for a healthy (00:15:35) brain to develop and for a healthy child (00:15:37) develop but let's maybe let's go back to (00:15:39) the old school mentality just so that we (00:15:41) can talk about perhaps some of the (00:15:42) symptoms that people might think that is (00:15:43) well that's just normal that's how cuz (00:15:45) again one of the things that I learned (00:15:46) when I said when I my son was born I (00:15:48) think it was about the age of two uh and (00:15:51) very much this full respect to my mom (00:15:52) she did an incredible job she raised me (00:15:54) on her own with my brother since I was 6 (00:15:55) months old uh she did the very best that (00:15:57) she could with the tools that she had (00:15:58) and she did a bloody good job like I (00:16:00) consider myself to be an incredible (00:16:01) human being but one of the things that (00:16:03) she didn't necessarily have a grasp on (00:16:05) was how to discipline without damage you (00:16:07) know which is a great title for a Booka (00:16:09) um and one of the things that I did when (00:16:12) my son was born he was about two was (00:16:14) sitting on the couch and I just looked (00:16:15) at him and I started to think about all (00:16:18) the ways that I was disciplined as a (00:16:19) child because I actually even a few (00:16:21) years ago before my child was born I I (00:16:23) reposted that picture that says you know (00:16:25) I was spanked as a child and I grew up (00:16:26) with a condition called respect for (00:16:28) authorit and so I was a full subscriber (00:16:31) to you know discipline from where I've (00:16:33) come from and then I started to look at (00:16:35) my son and one my son was born to me (00:16:38) that was one of the most profound (00:16:39) moments of my life it was one of the (00:16:40) most purposely driven moment it was when (00:16:42) I finally realized I knew exactly what (00:16:44) apart from my purpose in life in (00:16:45) business I knew this is what I'm here to (00:16:47) do and this will enable me to fulfill my (00:16:49) purpose at the highest level to be the (00:16:50) best dad possible but then I looked at (00:16:52) this kid this incredible innocent being (00:16:55) and I started to visualize myself doing (00:16:57) all the things that my mom had done me (00:16:59) as a child and I actually and this is no (00:17:01) disrespect to my mom cuz she did the (00:17:03) best that she could I started to cry cuz (00:17:05) I I just thought to myself I can't (00:17:08) possibly even fathom doing that to a (00:17:10) child let alone my child but my child (00:17:12) kind of brought it home and it was at (00:17:14) that point I had a very fundamental (00:17:16) shift in the way that I viewed you know (00:17:18) how I'm going to raise this boy how (00:17:19) because I hadn't done it I just (00:17:20) visualized it I'd always said to myself (00:17:22) I'm not going to I'm going to do it (00:17:23) differently but this was like a it was a (00:17:25) Gestalt moment like it was a very strong (00:17:27) moment so for those people that are (00:17:29) perhaps listening that are thinking that (00:17:31) might be doing some of the things that (00:17:32) are old school that in some cases can (00:17:35) you know create maladaptive development (00:17:37) in the brain what are some of the old (00:17:38) school ' 80s techniques that we need to (00:17:40) be aware of that aren't necessarily they (00:17:42) might be quick they might be fast but (00:17:44) they're not effective long term yeah I (00:17:46) love the way you you've highlighted this (00:17:48) idea of fast see the reason that we go (00:17:50) with these less effective techniques is (00:17:51) because they get us a short-term result (00:17:53) I love what Steven cavy said he said (00:17:56) fast is slow and slow is fast fast and (00:18:00) so what happens is when we go with that (00:18:02) that quick fix we get an instant result (00:18:04) but we have to keep doing it again and (00:18:05) again and again it has to get more and (00:18:06) more sever for it to addiction really (00:18:09) yeah yeah kind of for us and for them um (00:18:13) alternatively if we get it right at the (00:18:14) start by slowing it right down and doing (00:18:18) what Alfie cone calls working with your (00:18:21) children rather than doing things to (00:18:23) them it's a slow start but boy oh boy we (00:18:26) we create uh this internalization (00:18:29) where over time it gets quicker and (00:18:31) easier (00:18:33) because they get it so so the the the (00:18:37) obvious stuff is you know children (00:18:38) should be seen and not heard uh the (00:18:40) parent is the one with all the control (00:18:41) and parents typically still rely on All (00:18:44) these power techniques and it's not just (00:18:46) parents you know I want to draw this (00:18:47) very clear um parallel to uh to to to (00:18:52) business and team leading and and (00:18:54) management uh this is this is all (00:18:57) leadership I don't care if you're (00:18:58) leading to olds or 42 year olds it's all (00:19:01) leadership um (00:19:04) I I've walked into the I've walked into (00:19:07) the bedroom of my baby girl uh she's (00:19:09) three and a half now but when she was (00:19:11) about 1 1 and a half um it was the (00:19:13) afternoon and you know when the you know (00:19:15) when your child is in their cot and (00:19:17) they're just gurgling away and they're (00:19:18) talking to themselves and they're so (00:19:19) happy and you're like they've just had (00:19:21) their afternoon nap but they're happy (00:19:23) I'm not going to get them cuz as much as (00:19:24) I love them they're really happy and I'm (00:19:26) enjoying the peace and quiet and just (00:19:27) hearing them gurgle away and so I'm just (00:19:31) listening as I'm working I'm getting (00:19:32) clucky getting clucky right now it's (00:19:35) gorgeous isn't it and and then I kind of (00:19:37) I noticed a slight change in the way she (00:19:39) was talking to herself and uh and I was (00:19:42) like I think that she's starting to get (00:19:43) a bit Restless I I'll go in there and as (00:19:45) I walked in she smiled at me and you (00:19:48) that smile like you are the most (00:19:50) important person in my world yeah cuz (00:19:52) you are yeah and um she smiled at me and (00:19:55) and I'm like Emily it's so good to see (00:19:57) you you're awake and she helped out her (00:19:59) hand and I'm like what's she got in her (00:20:02) hand not that I would let my child sleep (00:20:04) with something sharp or dangerous but I (00:20:06) immediately became concerned you know (00:20:08) kids find stuff all over the place (00:20:09) switch blades tasers exactly and so and (00:20:12) I've put out my hand I've said t Daddy (00:20:13) and in my hand she places this little (00:20:15) piece of poo a so she's dug into her (00:20:18) nappy and she's pulled out a little (00:20:20) piece of poo and she's put in my hand oh (00:20:21) that's so beautiful isn't it and in that (00:20:24) moment I had this thought I thought how (00:20:27) do I respond to this and instantly I (00:20:29) thought of the Parallels for life (00:20:32) because every single day in life whether (00:20:34) you're a parent or an employer or even (00:20:37) just someone walking down the street (00:20:38) somebody that you have some relationship (00:20:40) with is going to hand you an unwanted (00:20:43) piece of shockingly unexpected grossness (00:20:47) I'll translate that he means [ __ ] I (00:20:49) didn't say that I said shockingly (00:20:51) unexpected stuff I'll trans and and and (00:20:54) when they do that what kind of a parent (00:20:57) or what kind of an employer are we going (00:20:58) to be are we going to be the kind (00:21:00) of person who starts throwing (00:21:03) metaphorical crap all around the room (00:21:05) throwing it back at them what are you (00:21:06) giving me this for it's not good enough (00:21:08) go to your room go to the corner go (00:21:11) think about this you're fired you're (00:21:12) this you're that whether it's for kids (00:21:14) or whether it's you know we going to hit (00:21:15) them are we we going to yell at them (00:21:17) abuse them or is there another way and (00:21:20) and I think that there is and and (00:21:22) whether you're an adult dealing with (00:21:24) adults or an adult dealing with kids I I (00:21:26) call it the three e of effective (00:21:28) discipline but it it it's much more (00:21:30) expansive than just discipline and (00:21:32) you've got the book right next to you I (00:21:34) outlin this all in in in in the book um (00:21:38) the first e is (00:21:40) explain the second e is explore and the (00:21:44) third e is Empower and all of this is (00:21:47) couched in or surrounded by empathy so (00:21:50) if I was to summarize the three e in one (00:21:52) sentence is it it is this do I want to (00:21:54) hurt this person or do I want to help (00:21:56) them and when we approach discipline (00:21:58) from a hurt perspective we just use our (00:22:01) power to get the result we want sit down (00:22:02) shut up let me hit you let me put you (00:22:04) let me take your P iPad off you I'm in (00:22:07) charge you've upset me done but that (00:22:10) doesn't really do much teaching it (00:22:11) doesn't really do much is there a deeper (00:22:13) correlation there between people in (00:22:14) playe inflict pain and if people are (00:22:15) still in pain from the way they've been (00:22:16) parented that's going to increase the (00:22:17) likelihood of them yeah you're getting a (00:22:19) bit Freudian no no but there there is (00:22:22) that there is that idea that hurt people (00:22:24) hurt people uh and and I think that if (00:22:27) we can move beyond that and shift our (00:22:30) this might sound a little bit woohoo but (00:22:32) but if we can shift our heart yes from (00:22:36) my agenda to let me just help you be a (00:22:38) better human and that's what this (00:22:39) podcast is all about right if if I can (00:22:41) shift my my motivation my intention from (00:22:44) a negative energy this is affecting me (00:22:46) and this is how it's affecting me and (00:22:47) I'm ticked off and now I'm going to hurt (00:22:49) you because of it to a positive energy I (00:22:51) value you I respect you I have empathy (00:22:54) for you and I want to help you the (00:22:57) difference in energy is in (00:22:59) and and it changes and we are talking (00:23:01) energy here because I think you can give (00:23:03) someone the tools but if they can't (00:23:05) regulate their own space and their own (00:23:07) energy energy and intention great book (00:23:09) by David Hawkins called power versus (00:23:12) Force beautiful book you know it oh very (00:23:15) well right and and and this is getting (00:23:16) into that there's also an even I think (00:23:18) better book by a guy called Kim Cameron (00:23:21) called positive leadership and he talks (00:23:23) about uh creating a virtuous (00:23:26) organization do you know the person who (00:23:28) I've seen actually demonstrate this at (00:23:30) the absolute highest level in the most (00:23:32) incredible ways is Caesar malan the way (00:23:34) he works with dogs it's all energy so he (00:23:37) talks about dog psychology and talks (00:23:38) about I don't rehabilitate the dog he (00:23:40) says sorry I don't train the dog he says (00:23:42) I rehabilitate the dog and I train the (00:23:44) owner yeah to to have that positive (00:23:46) energy exactly cuz the dogs are often (00:23:48) behaving as a result of the way that (00:23:50) they've been brought up around the (00:23:51) energy and it's not about the way you (00:23:52) discipline the dog it's the energy that (00:23:54) you bring to the conversation with the (00:23:55) dog and he's just done it beautifully (00:23:57) but anyway yeah so so in in in in a (00:24:00) quick sentence it's do I want to help (00:24:01) this person or don't want to hurt them (00:24:02) and the three EAS are about helping so (00:24:04) explain goes like this um okay here's an (00:24:07) embarrassing one from my home just (00:24:09) recently I've gone into the bathroom and (00:24:12) there's an empty cardboard roll on the (00:24:14) holder there's no paper on it and that (00:24:17) that's a that's an issue right I mean (00:24:19) when you got six kids [ __ ] every day (00:24:21) you don't want to have to deal with that (00:24:23) that You' literally have that every day (00:24:24) six kids we are heavy consumers of (00:24:27) toilet paper let me tell you and so and (00:24:30) so you you you walk in there and and I I (00:24:32) I remember thinking to myself I'm quite (00:24:34) upset right now because time is of the (00:24:37) essence in those moments and uh I I have (00:24:40) a a need that should be fulfilled here (00:24:43) and now the cardboard that's right it's (00:24:45) not going to work and so I I I paused (00:24:47) and I thought okay do I want to help or (00:24:49) do I want to hurt and part of me did (00:24:51) want to hurt right then but but I (00:24:52) changed the energy I was okay I want to (00:24:54) help so I called an urgent family (00:24:55) meeting right then I raced out of the (00:24:57) bathroom and and I said urgent family (00:24:59) meeting everybody in the living room (00:25:00) right now and I was holding a toilet (00:25:01) roll holder the know the piece of (00:25:02) cardboard and they all ran in cuz you (00:25:04) know when Dad says urgent family meeting (00:25:06) everyone gets into the living room (00:25:07) straight away and I've held it up and (00:25:08) I've said we have got a problem it's a (00:25:10) big problem somebody's stolen all the (00:25:12) toilet paper I don't know if it was the (00:25:15) dog I don't know if it was the chickens (00:25:16) in the backyard but something has gone (00:25:19) wrong here can you please please tell me (00:25:23) what what are we going to do to fix this (00:25:25) and so there's two ways to explain you (00:25:26) can either say it but kids and employees (00:25:29) they start to go blah blah blah blah (00:25:31) blah he's talking again all do is talk (00:25:33) for goodness sakes so I like to explain (00:25:35) the first time and I actually explain to (00:25:37) the family I said imagine if Nan and pop (00:25:38) were here and one of them needed to use (00:25:40) the bathroom and imagine if they got in (00:25:42) there and they didn't notice until it (00:25:44) was too late there was no paper (00:25:46) there that would be embarrassing for (00:25:49) them and for us nobody wants to see Nan (00:25:50) or pop walking through the living room (00:25:52) calling out for toilet paper in that (00:25:53) state that's and the kids are going (00:25:55) something you can't answer the kids are (00:25:56) just going oh Dad don't go there and so (00:25:59) I I did some explaining I spent some (00:26:02) time explaining but once you've once (00:26:04) you've explained and you look it's great (00:26:06) to explain and have fun with it but if (00:26:08) you you you know some people are saying (00:26:09) I have told my child to pick that wet (00:26:10) towel up off the floor 3,000 times I'm (00:26:14) done explaining now explaining is not (00:26:16) because I said so pick the tow up just (00:26:18) because that's what we do that's not (00:26:20) explaining explaining is did you know (00:26:21) that if you leave the Taw on the floor (00:26:23) it stinks and the carpet can get mjed or (00:26:25) moldy and it's just horrible that's (00:26:27) explain but once you youve done that a (00:26:29) few times and you've done it properly if (00:26:30) they're still doing it you get them to (00:26:31) explain it to you cuz you're boring and (00:26:33) they're not so say we've talked about (00:26:34) this can you help me to understand why I (00:26:37) keep talking to you about this and you (00:26:39) get them to talk and you get to identify (00:26:41) the gaps in their knowledge and it works (00:26:43) beautifully in an HR environment as well (00:26:45) you get to say we've talked about this (00:26:47) issue of drugs in the workplace three or (00:26:49) four times we've had some very explicit (00:26:50) trainings can you please explain to me (00:26:52) what you understand about this issue you (00:26:54) get to identify the gaps in the work in (00:26:57) in in their knowledge and you can feel (00:26:58) fill them in that's explain explore goes (00:27:01) like this in spite of our explanations (00:27:03) you seem to be having a hard time with (00:27:05) this can you help me to understand what (00:27:06) it's like to be you and I've said this (00:27:08) to my teenagers I'm like it must it must (00:27:10) be hard without a prefrontal cortex you (00:27:13) know they help me to understand what (00:27:15) every single secret of the universe and (00:27:17) having to deal with idiots like me it's (00:27:18) like and so we have this conversation (00:27:21) and and and it's really about saying hm (00:27:25) you're struggling with this and I don't (00:27:26) get why can you help me to see why this (00:27:28) is so hard for you and it's really about (00:27:31) getting into their space getting into (00:27:32) their head space taking their (00:27:34) perspective understanding it from their (00:27:36) from their from their world and then you (00:27:38) Empower which means you say okay you (00:27:40) know what's expected because I've (00:27:42) explained it or you've explained it to (00:27:44) me I get how it is for you because we've (00:27:46) explored that I really do understand (00:27:48) what it's like to be 10 and have this (00:27:50) issue or you know be an employee here (00:27:52) and have this issue I get it so where do (00:27:55) we go from here that's what empowerment (00:27:56) is it's like what do you think is the (00:27:57) best solution and this is where we give (00:27:59) all the power to the other person now (00:28:01) this is counterintuitive for a parent to (00:28:04) give all the power to their child MH and (00:28:07) we say what do you think where to from (00:28:09) here how do we make this better if you (00:28:11) are in my position this is a great (00:28:12) question for an employer or a parent if (00:28:15) you in my position what would you think (00:28:17) was appropriate to fix this and we we (00:28:21) quite literally delegate our power to (00:28:22) them now if they come up with an idea (00:28:25) that's not a good one if the answer (00:28:28) revolves around some violence or doing (00:28:30) nothing or leaving the status quo or you (00:28:31) know whatever it is you may say to them (00:28:34) something like well that's one option if (00:28:36) we were to pursue that to its logical (00:28:38) end how would that end up does that does (00:28:40) that really work cuz from my perspective (00:28:43) I can't see it working what is an (00:28:46) alternative it's like you know here's a (00:28:48) ball I want you to kick the ball into (00:28:49) the net oh you kicked it out of bounds I (00:28:51) want you to kick it again let's keep it (00:28:53) within the boundaries okay the Net's (00:28:55) over there I don't care how we get it (00:28:56) there but we can't go out of these (00:28:58) boundaries I'm leaving it up to you to (00:29:00) let's work together on this and and so (00:29:02) that's a slow process it could take two (00:29:03) minutes it could take two days it could (00:29:05) take two weeks but what you do is you (00:29:07) get this Buy in you get this (00:29:10) internalization and pretty soon they're (00:29:12) doing it because they just know it's the (00:29:13) right thing to do and they're willing to (00:29:14) do it and you're also provoking them to (00:29:16) use their brain you're also provoking (00:29:18) thought process you're also provoking (00:29:20) the frontal cortex to develop you know (00:29:22) which is SP on you know rational problem (00:29:24) solving yeah um but what I'm curious (00:29:26) you've kind of I'm not sure if you (00:29:27) avoided this deliberately but symptoms (00:29:29) like this is great you know and it's (00:29:31) this is slow to be fast this is how we (00:29:33) discipline a child before we go back to (00:29:34) the symptoms I am curious to know (00:29:36) because I've got this philosophy you (00:29:37) know speak to them like they're a genius (00:29:38) and a genius I'll become you use quite (00:29:40) complex language in the way that you (00:29:42) went through your process there with the (00:29:43) explain explore EMP power would you use (00:29:46) that level of language with like a three (00:29:47) or four year old no but I would use the (00:29:49) same process and a three or four year (00:29:51) old is going to be a lot less verbal (00:29:53) they regulate their emotions and their (00:29:54) behavior a lot less uh and the (00:29:56) conversation is going to be a lot (00:29:57) simpler and a lot shorter and it might (00:29:59) go something like this um what's your (00:30:01) little guy's name Noah Noah that's right (00:30:03) Noah I've read about Noah um but you (00:30:05) might say and I know Noah doesn't have a (00:30:07) sibling at this point let's just let's (00:30:10) just say Noah has a a little sister and (00:30:13) and and um he's a few years older now (00:30:15) and he he hurts her he pinches her or he (00:30:18) scratches her or he punches her or he (00:30:19) hits her or you know Takes the Train off (00:30:21) her or whatever it is and and you walk (00:30:23) over to Noah and you move him away from (00:30:25) the situation you make sure his little (00:30:27) sister's okay cuz comes first and once (00:30:30) she's calm you you say no we need to (00:30:32) have a chat you know we've got some (00:30:34) rules in our house about treating people (00:30:36) with respect and what you just did there (00:30:37) was not respectful it made her upset (00:30:40) that's the explaining bit or you might (00:30:42) even ask him no when you treat your (00:30:43) sister like that how does she feel (00:30:46) that's a much more powerful way to do it (00:30:47) because he's talking and he's also (00:30:49) experiencing a level of empathy for his (00:30:51) sister and that's what you really want (00:30:54) you want the empathy not to make him (00:30:56) feel guilty but for help him for helping (00:30:58) him to to feel exactly and once you get (00:31:01) there you say all right let me (00:31:03) understand a little bit why let's let's (00:31:06) just tell me why did you get so upset (00:31:08) that you hurt your sister and so you can (00:31:10) put yourself into his shoes and he'll (00:31:12) he'll say well because she called me a (00:31:14) name or because she took that thing off (00:31:16) me first or whatever and you're like I (00:31:18) see so you felt slighted you felt this (00:31:20) you felt that and and when he feels (00:31:22) fully understanding you say all right (00:31:24) well when that happens next time what do (00:31:25) you think is a better way to deal with (00:31:27) the situation it's exactly the same (00:31:29) process with a little kid who's three or (00:31:32) four and you can have the conversation (00:31:34) briefly now sometimes they just won't (00:31:36) talk I have a seven-year-old who hates (00:31:38) this she she just (00:31:41) goes and I said no no no we need to talk (00:31:43) and she'll say and I'm like is not (00:31:46) talking and she's (00:31:48) like at which point I'll I'll give her a (00:31:51) hug and I'll say right now you don't (00:31:53) feel like communicating about this at (00:31:55) all do you I can see how defensive you (00:31:57) feel this is upset setting for you we (00:32:00) will talk about this we need to resolve (00:32:02) this but why don't you go and have 10 or (00:32:05) 15 minutes of quiet time you can go read (00:32:07) a book you can go for a swim in the pool (00:32:09) I don't care what you do so long as you (00:32:10) treat others respectfully and when we're (00:32:13) both a bit calmer we'll talk about it (00:32:15) then a lot of parents and employers (00:32:17) think you've got to deal with the crap (00:32:19) that's been handed to you in the moment (00:32:22) it's often the worst time to deal with (00:32:23) it give it an hour give it a day give it (00:32:26) a week set an appointment make it clear (00:32:28) that this will be discussed so that (00:32:30) people know that there's a level of (00:32:32) accountability and then let it go till (00:32:34) everyone's totally cool and maybe that (00:32:36) night you sit on the edge of their bed (00:32:37) not your employees but your (00:32:39) children depends which business I guess (00:32:42) it does looking at you right there (00:32:44) yeah um yeah that's that's right so you (00:32:46) sit on the edge of their bed because (00:32:47) they they open up at night time they're (00:32:49) feeling relaxed they're feeling calm and (00:32:50) we feel better as well and we might give (00:32:52) their leg a squeeze or we're scratching (00:32:54) their back and we say hey we need to (00:32:55) talk about what happened today and then (00:32:57) it's the same process explain explore (00:33:00) EMP power yeah cool so let's now talk (00:33:02) symptoms what are the what is the old (00:33:04) school ways of disciplining a child that (00:33:07) just fundamentally that have been proven (00:33:09) by the now Decades of pediatric research (00:33:12) that we have when it comes to neural (00:33:13) development and behavioral research that (00:33:15) just fundamentally don't work they're (00:33:17) quick yeah but they don't work so (00:33:19) anything that's control based uh so so (00:33:21) smacking smacking is the number one and (00:33:23) and you know there was a meta analysis (00:33:25) published a couple of years ago 50 years (00:33:27) of smacking research now I want to be (00:33:29) clear this is smacking or as the US (00:33:31) calls it spanking research this is not (00:33:33) abuse this is smacking all and they were (00:33:35) they were very clear with this meta (00:33:37) analysis with these hundreds and (00:33:38) hundreds of studies they pulled in if (00:33:40) there's anything that that would be into (00:33:42) the abusive side we don't include it (00:33:43) we're just talking about a smack okay (00:33:46) across the back of the hand or the the (00:33:48) the the bottom or whatever it might be (00:33:50) 50 years of smacking research shows that (00:33:53) across every variable ever measured and (00:33:56) they pulled out I think I can't remember (00:33:57) if it was 10 or 13 variables that that (00:33:59) seem to matter the most there is not a (00:34:01) shred of credible evidence to support (00:34:03) smacking for anything the only modest (00:34:07) finding is that you will get a (00:34:09) short-term change in Behavior but a (00:34:12) fascinating study about eight years ago (00:34:14) now by a guy called George Holden which (00:34:15) is one of the who is one of the world's (00:34:16) foremost authorities in in sping (00:34:18) spanking research uh showed that even (00:34:20) when we smack our kids in 73% of cases (00:34:24) within 10 minutes they're back at (00:34:26) challenging Behavior again so when I say (00:34:28) say short-term benefit we're talking (00:34:30) Mega shortterm what are we talking about (00:34:32) in terms of long-term yeah significant (00:34:34) so so we model poor relationship skills (00:34:37) uh there's problem solving problems with (00:34:38) violence yeah pretty much yeah and and (00:34:40) research shows that if you bully your (00:34:42) kids physically and that's what that's (00:34:44) what this really is uh then they're more (00:34:47) likely to be bullies themselves to their (00:34:49) siblings and to others in the playground (00:34:50) and and they grow up to smack you know (00:34:52) people say I was smacked as a child and (00:34:53) I turned out fine I grew up with respect (00:34:55) for authority but the research would (00:34:57) suggest that if we're smacked as (00:34:58) children we're much more likely to (00:34:59) endorse punitive methods ourselves you (00:35:01) know this is this is I'm going to go (00:35:02) Global for a second can't remember who (00:35:04) the researchers were but about 10 years (00:35:06) ago a paper was published that showed a (00:35:09) a significant correlation between a (00:35:12) country's endorsement of smacking and (00:35:15) you know physical violence towards (00:35:16) children and the likelihood of them (00:35:19) being involved in significant Global (00:35:22) Warfare no kidding so so if you grow up (00:35:25) in a country where harsh physical (00:35:27) punishment is the norm you are also (00:35:29) growing up in a country where that (00:35:30) you're more likely to go to war and you (00:35:33) look at the countries that don't go to (00:35:34) war so much look at those lovely (00:35:36) northern European countries they've (00:35:38) outlawed smacking for for decades now (00:35:40) they're peace loving countries in the (00:35:43) home which changes the culture at a (00:35:46) global level from the individual to the (00:35:48) global isn't that phenomenal no and it (00:35:50) makes perfect sense when we look at the (00:35:51) state of the world right now and now (00:35:52) that is a it's a correlation okay it's (00:35:54) not there's no way that you can (00:35:56) experimentally do this but it's a it's a (00:35:58) very interesting correlation interesting (00:36:00) correlation banking what else uh (00:36:01) withdrawal of privileges uh so this is (00:36:03) where we take take their device off them (00:36:05) or we uh take their ball off them I'm (00:36:07) I'm taking your trk Tonka trunk and I'm (00:36:09) going home because I don't like the way (00:36:10) you're playing with your sister or your (00:36:11) brother uh withdrawal of privileges (00:36:13) again the research would suggest that (00:36:15) this is a big Power Play and it doesn't (00:36:18) get us a long-term result it just makes (00:36:20) our kids hate us how do we teach kids (00:36:22) consequence in a healthy way well this (00:36:24) goes back to the whole Empower thing and (00:36:26) I'm so glad that you came back to that (00:36:28) let let me finish the other the other (00:36:29) the other ones very quickly and we'll (00:36:30) come back to that so there's timeout I (00:36:33) call timeout solitary confinement or (00:36:35) forceable isolation the United Nations a (00:36:37) half a dozen years ago actually mandated (00:36:40) that you know it was a violation of (00:36:41) Human Rights put people into solitary (00:36:43) confinement and yet we do it in our (00:36:44) homes every day we we got to stop doing (00:36:46) that time out not helpful time in (00:36:48) wonderful now now let me be clear every (00:36:51) now and again we might say to our child (00:36:54) this isn't working we need some space (00:36:56) and in fact I did this with my and play (00:36:58) for a moment yeah or or go somewhere and (00:37:01) my seven-year-old the other day this (00:37:02) this is actually why it was top of mind (00:37:04) she refused to talk to me she was so (00:37:06) rude and and I was like I won't have you (00:37:10) being be so rude to me I can understand (00:37:12) how upset you are but right now you're (00:37:14) you're being really really rude and I (00:37:16) said to her I want to be with you and I (00:37:19) want to resolve this with you because I (00:37:20) love you and so rather than giving her a (00:37:23) time out I invited her to be closer and (00:37:25) I explained how I feel about her I Tred (00:37:28) to draw her to me with my love you can (00:37:31) say again what's your energy and are you (00:37:33) trying to hurt or help I want to help (00:37:35) her and I said to her my my goal is to (00:37:37) help you through this but you're pushing (00:37:39) me away I said so I can leave you here (00:37:41) in your room until you've calmed down or (00:37:45) we can talk about it now and she (00:37:47) said and I said okay I get a really (00:37:50) strong sense from you that you don't (00:37:51) want me around right now let me be clear (00:37:53) that you're choosing to send me away (00:37:56) before I go would you like a hug (00:37:59) I said okay I walked to the door I (00:38:01) opened the door I said I'm giving you (00:38:03) another chance cuz I really do want to (00:38:05) be with you would you like a (00:38:07) hug I said okay when you're ready for a (00:38:09) hug you come get one because we need to (00:38:12) spend time together and we're going to (00:38:14) enjoy our time together more if we're (00:38:16) hugging and I stepped out of the room (00:38:17) and I waited about 30 seconds now she (00:38:20) was not punished she was not in trouble (00:38:22) but a consequence of her behavior was (00:38:24) that she was isolated from me but she (00:38:26) chose it I didn't put it on her and then (00:38:30) I stepped back in after about 30 seconds (00:38:31) I said have you calmed down enough for a (00:38:33) hug yet and she gave me the other H (00:38:36) again I said okay I'm going to go but I (00:38:39) really want that hug and I know that you (00:38:40) want to talk to me so when you're ready (00:38:42) for it let's do that it took about 5 (00:38:44) minutes and after about 5 minutes she (00:38:47) came to me and she said I think I'm (00:38:50) ready for a hug I said okay go back to (00:38:52) your room I'll be there in a sec I've (00:38:54) just got to finish what I'm doing so she (00:38:55) went to her room I walked back in about (00:38:57) 30 seconds later and I said are you sure (00:38:59) you're ready for a hug and she looked at (00:39:01) me funny and sort of half nodded and I (00:39:03) said if you're ready for a hug put your (00:39:06) hand on your nose and she put a hand on (00:39:09) her knee and and we turned it into a bit (00:39:11) of a game and I walked over and I gave (00:39:13) her a little tickle and I scratched her (00:39:14) back and I said it feels good when we (00:39:17) when we can talk nicely doesn't it and (00:39:19) she sort of snuggled into me and we had (00:39:21) a really nice chat (00:39:23) so forceable isolation it doesn't work (00:39:26) it makes kids hate us my mom sent me to (00:39:28) my room when I was 15 I remember the (00:39:30) incident quite clearly my my sister had (00:39:33) upset me and I said Karina you you're (00:39:34) just a stupid idiot and my mom said (00:39:37) Justin we don't speak like that in this (00:39:39) house you say sorry right away and I (00:39:41) said fine Karina I'm sorry you're a (00:39:43) stupid idiot and mom sent me to my room (00:39:46) think about what you've done I worked to (00:39:47) my room and I sat down at my desk and I (00:39:49) thought to myself I'm an impediment to (00:39:51) my family's happiness I need to be a (00:39:53) better brother and now that I've spent (00:39:54) some time in my room I'm resolving to be (00:39:56) a better human as soon as I leave this (00:39:58) room like no teenager ever no no kid (00:40:00) ever says that I was like my mom I I (00:40:02) hate my mom she doesn't understand I (00:40:03) hate my sister I'm going to get her back (00:40:04) I plotted my revenge so that's what (00:40:07) forcible isolation or timeout does so (00:40:09) they're the they're the standard ones (00:40:10) you know there's a handful of other (00:40:11) things but they're the standard ones (00:40:12) yelling threatening all that sort of (00:40:13) stuff um how do and threat's actually an (00:40:16) interesting one because it often becomes (00:40:17) like a real easy default in general (00:40:19) conversation whether you're getting them (00:40:21) out of the pool trying to get them ready (00:40:22) for and then you got to follow through (00:40:24) and you feel like scum yeah yeah so so (00:40:26) so how do we get the children to do what (00:40:28) we want without even using subtle threat (00:40:31) yeah cool so um this this ties back in (00:40:33) with your previous question about (00:40:35) consequences okay because the threaten (00:40:37) the consequence are the same so there (00:40:39) are consequences to actions okay and it (00:40:42) might be that if the kids let's use the (00:40:44) pool example get out of the pool you (00:40:46) know it's time to leave the beach just (00:40:48) one more swim and they go in I got to (00:40:49) get the sand off and then halfway up the (00:40:51) beach they fall on the sand and I got to (00:40:53) get the sand off again and they run back (00:40:54) down to the water um what we do is we (00:40:57) have that conversation we explain we (00:40:58) explore and we Empower but the Empower (00:41:01) conversation I only told you about the (00:41:03) good stuff earlier there's also the (00:41:05) consequence aspect to it as well well I (00:41:07) did Breeze across it and that is when (00:41:09) they come up with a an empowering (00:41:11) solution that doesn't actually work or (00:41:13) that fails to acknowledge that there (00:41:14) needs to be a consequence sometimes we (00:41:16) might say well that's not quite enough (00:41:19) um for example let's not use the beach (00:41:22) let's use uh you've broken something (00:41:23) that belongs to me or your brother or (00:41:26) your sister you've broken something that (00:41:27) was of value when we say so what are we (00:41:29) going to do to make sure this doesn't (00:41:30) happen again they might say well I've (00:41:31) got to be more careful and I shouldn't (00:41:32) throw balls in the house great that's (00:41:35) really important but what are we going (00:41:36) to do about the breakage because you (00:41:39) need to be accountable for that uh what (00:41:42) what's going to happen there so we (00:41:43) Empower them to come up with a solution (00:41:45) and the consequence is part of that (00:41:47) empowering so they might have to (00:41:50) empowering them we're not just (00:41:51) empowering them to come up with good (00:41:53) solutions to make sure stuff doesn't (00:41:54) happen in future we're empowering them (00:41:56) to use their or O A their ownership (00:42:01) their accountability and their (00:42:02) responsibility you're not truly (00:42:04) empowered unless you're being (00:42:05) responsible and so if they won't get out (00:42:07) of the pool or if they won't repair the (00:42:10) damage or if they won't do this or do (00:42:12) that we need to hold them accable so we (00:42:14) bring them back into that empowering (00:42:15) conversation we say I want to help you (00:42:16) to be responsible this will help you to (00:42:18) be a better human being as you take (00:42:20) responsibility for your behavior you'll (00:42:23) become a better person you'll be more (00:42:24) trustworthy you'll be more reliable (00:42:26) you'll become the of person that people (00:42:28) want to be with because they know they (00:42:29) can count on you so we need you to use (00:42:32) your awe ownership accountability (00:42:34) responsibility you've made a mistake (00:42:36) here you haven't done as you were asked (00:42:38) and it was a reasonable request I gave (00:42:39) you a 10-minute warning we're done at (00:42:40) the beach in 10 minutes you stayed for (00:42:43) another 20 you kept going in the water (00:42:44) you wouldn't get in the car you kept (00:42:46) getting (00:42:46) Sandy how can we fix this so that this (00:42:49) doesn't happen again what responsibility (00:42:51) can you take you hurt your sister now (00:42:53) it's great that you've said that you're (00:42:54) not going to get in that situation again (00:42:56) but what else do you need to do that's (00:42:57) right you need to say sorry now I'm not (00:43:00) going to tell you that you've got to do (00:43:02) it right this second but I want to find (00:43:04) out by the end of the day that you've (00:43:05) done it you've done it properly by the (00:43:06) way quick aside a good apology for (00:43:08) anyone whether you're a child or an (00:43:10) adult should have four elements I'm (00:43:12) sorry for what I did State what you did (00:43:15) I'm sorry that I hurt (00:43:17) you and then State the effect that it (00:43:20) had on them I'm sorry that I hurt you I (00:43:23) know that it made you feel like you (00:43:25) can't trust me and it it made you cry (00:43:29) and the last part which I think is the (00:43:31) most important of all is will you (00:43:32) forgive me will you forgive me matters (00:43:35) because it says what I did you know when (00:43:38) someone says I'm sorry and everyone says (00:43:39) yeah that's okay sometimes it's not okay (00:43:42) and I want my kids to know that (00:43:44) sometimes it's not okay so you ask for (00:43:46) forgiveness that's that's that's the (00:43:48) humility that's really making making it (00:43:50) right will you forgive me and so we go (00:43:53) through these empowering conversations (00:43:54) with our children and with our employees (00:43:55) and we say this is what's happened (00:43:58) there there may need to be a consequence (00:43:59) to this isn't it great if you sit down (00:44:01) with an employee and say you failed (00:44:04) something that I asked you to do I've (00:44:07) explored where you're coming from I can (00:44:08) see why it all happened but ultimately (00:44:10) this is a this is an HR issue we've got (00:44:12) a clear policy and you've failed this (00:44:14) policy in a significant way what do you (00:44:16) think is the the the right way forward (00:44:18) from here isn't it amazing when you've (00:44:20) got an employee who says well I don't (00:44:22) really want you to but I I suppose I (00:44:23) probably deserve a written warning for (00:44:25) this and some coun over it and you can (00:44:28) say yeah okay job done you give them the (00:44:32) they've already told you what the (00:44:33) consequence should be yeah and so that's (00:44:35) what we're working towards now it's (00:44:36) really interesting because there's a (00:44:38) difference between consequences and (00:44:39) punishments punishments is when somebody (00:44:42) with power does something horrible to (00:44:44) another person to make them pay a price (00:44:46) a consequence in this context at least (00:44:49) is when the person recognizes that (00:44:51) they've done wrong and acknowledges that (00:44:54) there is going to be a they actually (00:44:56) they're choosing their their price in a (00:44:58) sense they're saying yeah I messed up (00:45:00) and this is what I know needs to happen (00:45:02) now and I I accept it it's such it (00:45:05) changes the dynamic the relationship (00:45:07) remains positive and helpful and healing (00:45:11) rather than punitive and punishing and (00:45:14) horrible nice one of the things that (00:45:16) I've leared being a parent also a leader (00:45:19) in business but especially as a parent (00:45:21) you know I'm I'm talking as someone (00:45:22) who's experienced an unusual amount of (00:45:24) trauma in my in my childhood and it's (00:45:26) it's affected me in a range of different (00:45:27) way (00:45:28) um and I'm I'm I'm not here to lay blame (00:45:31) on any experience that I've had to put (00:45:33) me in any of the situations that I'm in (00:45:35) but I'm certainly now more aware of how (00:45:36) I got to where I am especially when (00:45:38) we're talking about addiction right so (00:45:39) I'm an addict I'm very open about this (00:45:41) conversation uh and I was always very (00:45:43) curious about how is it that I developed (00:45:44) this desire to to want to numb myself (00:45:46) and desire to want to relieve pain very (00:45:49) quickly and when I started to become a (00:45:50) parent when I started to you know really (00:45:52) research the latest information and (00:45:54) around how a child's brain develops and (00:45:57) what a child really needs in order for a (00:45:59) healthy brain to form so that they learn (00:46:01) how to regulate emotion in healthy ways (00:46:03) so they learn how to regulate stress in (00:46:05) healthy ways so that their brain (00:46:06) develops in a way that show that (00:46:08) literally in almost an automatic nature (00:46:11) it it does it for them so to speak and (00:46:14) so one of the things that I've learned (00:46:15) about is the importance of safety of (00:46:17) children feeling safe of children (00:46:19) trusting us uh and again when we start (00:46:22) looking at the way that we discipline (00:46:23) people or the way that we discipline our (00:46:25) children specifically we really start (00:46:27) looking at okay there's a level of (00:46:29) threat there there's a level of you know (00:46:31) broken potential to break trust but (00:46:33) there's also a level of fear that is (00:46:35) inspired that makes these children (00:46:37) experience high levels of stress which (00:46:39) has a biochemical response high levels (00:46:40) of emotion that in many cases they (00:46:42) haven't got the tools to regulate but (00:46:44) when we look at children in some cases (00:46:45) we go oh my God they're they're in a (00:46:47) state they're having a complete that (00:46:48) meltdown we look go the last because the (00:46:50) logical conclusion is the last thing (00:46:51) this kids right needs right now is a hug (00:46:54) because all the the assumption is you (00:46:56) know stimulus response well if I hug (00:46:58) this child all I'm doing is reinforcing (00:47:00) that this behavior is okay is this still (00:47:03) the way that we should be approaching (00:47:04) like children's having meltdowns and ey (00:47:06) fall yeah parents say this all the time (00:47:07) if I hug them I'm just reinforcing the (00:47:09) negative behavior it's baloney just it (00:47:12) it doesn't Stack Up you let's put this (00:47:14) into an adult (00:47:16) context you are stressed out you you've (00:47:19) gone through something traumatic you've (00:47:20) just had a phone call you've gone you (00:47:22) know something's just happened right (00:47:23) here in front of you it's traumatic it's (00:47:26) frightened you it's messed up whatever (00:47:27) it is and you're you're in a really (00:47:29) significant emotional state maybe you've (00:47:31) just had a ma major conflict with (00:47:33) somebody what do you need right in that (00:47:35) moment do you need somebody to say cut (00:47:38) it out stop being so silly that's enough (00:47:40) go to your room and calm down or do you (00:47:42) need somebody to (00:47:43) say you feel awful you've just been (00:47:46) through you're really struggling with (00:47:47) this just come here and let me let me (00:47:49) hold you let me make you feel (00:47:52) safe I think that that's the answer you (00:47:54) know as adults We crave it let's let's (00:47:56) choose a a much simpler example you're (00:47:58) driving home you're stuck in traffic you (00:48:00) get home half an hour late you got a (00:48:01) speeding fine on the way home cuz you (00:48:03) were rushing when the traffic finally (00:48:04) broke you walk in the door you've you've (00:48:06) had a blow up with the boss that day and (00:48:08) your spouse or significant other your (00:48:09) partner says to you if you're going to (00:48:11) walk in here looking like that you know (00:48:14) you're going to bring that attitude that (00:48:15) negative energy in here you just go to (00:48:17) your room I I don't want to see (00:48:20) that it doesn't work does it as an adult (00:48:23) you walk in and and you want them to say (00:48:25) wow it looks like you've had a Rotten (00:48:26) Day (00:48:28) what can I do to help do you need a hug (00:48:30) do you just want some time do you want (00:48:31) to sit down can I get you anything and (00:48:33) all of a sudden you feel that burden (00:48:35) that stress start to start to disappear (00:48:39) and and you feel safe and you feel like (00:48:41) you can fall into their arms and have a (00:48:43) little cry or laugh and say you wouldn't (00:48:45) believe what happened today and that's (00:48:48) what our kids need that Safety and (00:48:50) Security is exactly what they want so (00:48:52) when they're having a meltdown an aisle (00:48:54) four what we do is we leave the trolley (00:48:57) and we get out on the floor with our (00:48:58) child and we say you feel really awful (00:49:00) right now we you know I mean look rule (00:49:02) number one don't take kids shopping you (00:49:05) know just just don't kids and shopping (00:49:06) centers are not a good mix but if you (00:49:08) don't have a choice if you have got to (00:49:10) take them shopping then then set (00:49:14) yourself up for Success don't take them (00:49:15) when they're tired give them a treat as (00:49:17) soon as they get there you know buy them (00:49:18) a pet of strawberries as soon as you (00:49:20) walk in the door let them know no (00:49:22) lollies today kids but you can choose (00:49:23) anything from the fruit aisle we'll pay (00:49:25) for it straight away I mean a lot of (00:49:26) supermarkets giving away free fruit for (00:49:28) kids now anyway um and give them a a (00:49:30) treat make it special for them engage (00:49:32) them let them pull things off the (00:49:34) shelves you know don't stare at your (00:49:36) phone stare at your child and and spend (00:49:39) that time with them if they do have the (00:49:40) Meltdown because they want to have that (00:49:41) treat that's on you know the Shelf there (00:49:44) move away leave the trolley at the (00:49:47) service desk take them for a walk get (00:49:49) outside let them know that you you love (00:49:51) them if they want to lay on the floor (00:49:52) and kick and scream the you punch the (00:49:54) ground let them do that and say as soon (00:49:56) as you're ready for a hug I'm right here (00:49:58) invite them in invite them in invite (00:50:00) them in give them their space and then (00:50:01) they'll come to you and they'll calm (00:50:03) down and that's been transformational (00:50:04) especially for myself and Noah uh (00:50:06) because you know I come from background (00:50:07) training animals you know I've worked (00:50:09) with dogs and horses and again it's what (00:50:11) Behavior reinforcing by reward the and (00:50:14) again the difference being is dogs don't (00:50:16) have a free prefrontal cortex children (00:50:18) do and so their brains develop in (00:50:19) different ways and it's been profound (00:50:21) and I just want to really endorse this (00:50:23) the level of transformation that I see (00:50:25) in Noah when he is having those moments (00:50:27) where he is overwhelmed he and you (00:50:29) literally look at him you go okay now I (00:50:30) can look at you and go I can see you (00:50:32) don't actually have the mental (00:50:33) capabilities to deal with the level of (00:50:35) emotion you've got running through your (00:50:36) brain right now so I'm just going to get (00:50:38) down to your level I'm going to hold you (00:50:40) nice and tight and just whisper the (00:50:42) words buddy it's okay you're safe you're (00:50:44) all right everything's going to be okay (00:50:46) and then slow down and look at him go (00:50:48) look at me buddy look at me you must be (00:50:50) frustrated right now you must be (00:50:52) experiencing see that you're (00:50:54) experiencing high levels of emotion (00:50:55) right now and I want you to know it's (00:50:56) okay okay buddy it's okay and we'll get (00:50:59) through this together and we'll get and (00:51:00) I say and I've taught him now we'll take (00:51:01) a deep breath come on and he's the only (00:51:03) child that I've met that's four that (00:51:05) when he starts getting a little bit (00:51:06) hyped up or when he's getting upset I (00:51:07) can say to him from across the room Noah (00:51:09) take a breath and (00:51:11) he'll you're beautiful incredible but (00:51:14) then the transformation that takes and (00:51:16) again you know parents are looking at (00:51:17) you [ __ ] teach your child well I (00:51:18) shouldn't say that you should be (00:51:19) teaching your child you know you receive (00:51:21) the Judgment you see the Judgment but (00:51:22) the power in the process you're talking (00:51:24) about it's just phenomenal but look (00:51:26) there's a lot of you know parents out (00:51:28) there that are dealing with you know (00:51:29) high stress situations and one of the (00:51:30) things that I've learned about now is (00:51:31) the importance of teaching our kids how (00:51:33) to deal with stress by showing them how (00:51:35) to deal with it you teaching kids how to (00:51:37) deal with pain by showing them how to (00:51:38) deal with it because what I've learned (00:51:40) from my own experience is I wasn't (00:51:41) taught how to deal with pain in a very (00:51:43) in a in a very healthy way and I wasn't (00:51:44) taught how to regulate pain in a very (00:51:46) healthy way because you know my parents (00:51:48) or one of my parents wasn't necessarily (00:51:49) able to do that uh which when the moment (00:51:52) a quick fix was introduced it made it (00:51:54) very easy because oh that just makes it (00:51:56) easy and again I don't want to be saying (00:51:58) to parents that we do there's a great (00:51:59) book and maybe you've heard of it it's (00:52:00) called written by a guy called James (00:52:02) Oliver it's called they [ __ ] you up it's (00:52:03) actually a book on parenting called they (00:52:05) [ __ ] you up and it literally talks about (00:52:06) how parental induced trauma dramatically (00:52:09) increases you the risk of addiction the (00:52:12) risk of ADHD the risk of you know (00:52:14) juvenile criminal behavior and all these (00:52:16) other attributes which is really quite (00:52:17) fascinating but one of the most (00:52:19) devastating things that can happen to a (00:52:20) family unit or perceived to be which I'm (00:52:23) finding out isn't necessarily the truth (00:52:25) right now but what's interesting is um (00:52:27) both my wife uh and myself we come from (00:52:29) families that you know experien divorce (00:52:31) at very young Ages which also transfers (00:52:34) into generationally all the research (00:52:36) shows much higher risk if you come from (00:52:38) that family but what's interesting is (00:52:40) the level of dedication that both my (00:52:41) wife and I have to demonstrating you (00:52:44) know um and it's interesting because (00:52:46) Vanessa is talking about this the title (00:52:47) of her next book divorce without damage (00:52:49) you know where it can it is possible to (00:52:53) go through separation and to go through (00:52:55) you know a divorce without actually (00:52:57) creating an any additional trauma you (00:52:59) know that can create long lasting (00:53:02) impacts that can affect the trajectory (00:53:03) of that child's entire life and you've (00:53:05) only got to look at the data of you know (00:53:06) what happens to a child what are the (00:53:07) increased probabilities and variables of (00:53:09) a child that goes through divorce it's (00:53:10) not necessarily a good-look scenario (00:53:12) it's not a pretty picture at all but (00:53:14) there is a way that we can approach it (00:53:15) in a healthy way I'm in the middle of (00:53:17) this myself and I'm not saying it's it's (00:53:18) easy it's not it's very difficult (00:53:20) because we have to put our [ __ ] our (00:53:21) beliefs our control to the side but what (00:53:24) are some of the things that we can do as (00:53:25) parents perhaps are in the early stages (00:53:27) of a separation or in the midst of a (00:53:29) divorce that might be a little bit messy (00:53:30) because I think one of the things that (00:53:31) parents do is they put themselves first (00:53:33) not the kids and that's that to me is (00:53:34) the mistake right how do we as parents (00:53:38) get our head around the potential of and (00:53:41) I'm going to say it bluntly that if we (00:53:43) don't deal with separation well if we (00:53:45) don't deal with divorce well we are (00:53:46) going to potentially [ __ ] this kid up (00:53:48) for life in ways that we will never in (00:53:50) some cases truly understand because we (00:53:52) don't understand you know the (00:53:53) development of a child's brain at that (00:53:55) level how do we first of all understand (00:53:58) the importance but secondly how do we go (00:53:59) through a separation how do we go (00:54:01) through a divorce and put the kids first (00:54:03) and actually do it in a healthy way that (00:54:05) will enable them to live you know the (00:54:06) increase the probability of them living (00:54:08) healthier lives you need to be a pretty (00:54:09) enlightened individual that's that's the (00:54:11) reality of it because there's so much (00:54:12) emotion there's so much baggage aligned (00:54:15) with it a couple of things first of all (00:54:18) you want to treat your (00:54:21) ex as a business partner or or as a (00:54:26) business client (00:54:28) and the reason for that is you're very (00:54:30) very rarely going to send your business (00:54:32) clients text messages at 1:00 a.m. (00:54:36) calling them names and telling them what (00:54:37) you really think no matter how you feel (00:54:40) about that business client they're (00:54:41) keeping your business afloat and you're (00:54:43) going to treat them respectfully you're (00:54:44) going to bend over backwards to make (00:54:46) sure that they feel satisfied now if (00:54:48) both parties can do that we're already (00:54:50) off to a really really really good (00:54:53) start I'm going to say but if we can't (00:54:55) have both parties doing that (00:54:57) at least one party needs at least yeah (00:55:00) ideally both but if if both for whatever (00:55:02) reason because of their own stuff yeah (00:55:05) can't and and and by the way can't means (00:55:07) don't want to uh you know if one of them (00:55:09) doesn't want to because they've got too (00:55:11) much pride too much anger too much (00:55:12) bitterness too much (00:55:13) resentment we we really do need to bend (00:55:16) over backwards to see this person as a a (00:55:20) business partner a business client so (00:55:22) that's the first thing the second thing (00:55:24) just don't speak badly about your ex to (00:55:27) your kids just just don't so destructive (00:55:30) it really is it's so damaging and anyone (00:55:33) who's been in the situation I've talked (00:55:34) to so many people who have been through (00:55:36) this the the damage that's done and (00:55:40) somebody's always going to do it but (00:55:41) don't be the one because once the kids (00:55:43) do get older and they do become adult (00:55:45) one day they're going to be like you (00:55:48) know I'm I'm being gendered here purely (00:55:51) I'm I'm not picking on anyone I'm just (00:55:52) going to say Mom uh mom you you always (00:55:57) uh gave dad the benefit of the doubt you (00:55:59) never said anything bad about him dad's (00:56:00) constantly been saying horrible things (00:56:02) about you you know and and and over time (00:56:04) I've started to see that the person (00:56:06) who's doing the horrible stuff is (00:56:07) actually the horrible one uh you need to (00:56:10) stand on Higher Ground in addition to (00:56:12) that there's there's a handful of things (00:56:13) that I think we can do to really help (00:56:15) things to to to go well number one stay (00:56:17) close (00:56:19) geographically once you got parents are (00:56:21) living into state or even a few hours (00:56:22) away from each other it's just so hard (00:56:24) for the kids you you ideally want the (00:56:26) kids to be able to go to the same school (00:56:27) regardless of whose house they're living (00:56:28) in uh you want them to have access to (00:56:30) the same resources the same friends the (00:56:32) same opportunities regardless of whether (00:56:34) they're living in Mom's house or Dad's (00:56:36) house or you know partner one partner (00:56:37) two how important is it for children to (00:56:38) have that level of consistency like and (00:56:40) at what age does it not become an issue (00:56:43) when changing schools for example (00:56:44) because maybe one parent moves across to (00:56:45) the other side of the city like is is (00:56:47) there a level of importance placed on (00:56:49) you know something as simple as what (00:56:51) school that they go to yeah I think that (00:56:52) I think that it really matters uh and as (00:56:54) as a couple as a business client to (00:56:56) business client kind of relationship you (00:56:59) you sit down and you (00:57:00) say you know how I feel about this I (00:57:02) know how you feel about this but can we (00:57:04) just pause and work out what's going to (00:57:05) be in the best interest of our child (00:57:06) let's let's check the ego at the door (00:57:08) please no egos we're just in here we're (00:57:11) having a conversation together about the (00:57:13) child's best interest and and that's (00:57:16) really where we've got to focus you know (00:57:17) my job here is not to hurt you or not to (00:57:19) hurt the child my job here is to help (00:57:20) it's a question that pervades all of our (00:57:22) relationships so we want to make sure (00:57:24) that um we're we're close geographically (00:57:26) we want to make sure that financial (00:57:27) resources are somewhat Equitable um that (00:57:31) can be really challenging but one of the (00:57:34) one of the biggest issues that parents (00:57:35) will say is that uh when I go to Dad's (00:57:39) it feels like I'm on holidays I've got (00:57:40) the big screen TV I've got the modern (00:57:42) house yeah Disneyland Dad when I'm at (00:57:44) Mom's well Mom's just mom hasn't got the (00:57:46) money she hasn't got the resources and (00:57:48) and the other thing aligned with that is (00:57:50) we don't want to just give Dad weekends (00:57:52) and holidays Dad should be to the extent (00:57:55) that it's possible involved in the (00:57:56) day-to-day care because otherwise dad is (00:58:00) just the fun guy and mom does have to do (00:58:01) all of the stuff and it gets really hard (00:58:04) um so there there are a couple of things (00:58:06) to bear in mind uh there's there's a lot (00:58:08) more and I think that rather than me (00:58:10) waffling on about it Vanessa's book (00:58:11) about divorce without damage it' (00:58:12) probably be a really nice place to be (00:58:14) well she's still she's only still in the (00:58:15) early stage she's putting it together (00:58:17) she's putting it together right now she (00:58:18) she said it's it's a work in process (00:58:21) which is fantastic mate uh last but not (00:58:23) least if there was one incredible piece (00:58:25) of advice You' give every single parent (00:58:27) out there that is tried true tested and (00:58:30) guaranteed to give them an effective (00:58:32) outcome every time what would that be oh (00:58:34) wow um no pressure no pressure at all (00:58:36) look I'm going to I'm going to shift the (00:58:39) question a little bit because ultimately (00:58:40) so long as the okay the the short answer (00:58:43) is let your kids know that they matter (00:58:45) in everything that you do and say (00:58:47) everything that you do and say but I'm (00:58:48) going to pick up this book that I've (00:58:49) left on the desk here for a sec so my (00:58:51) new books called 10 things every parent (00:58:52) needs to know uh and and in the book I (00:58:56) dedicated the book to every parent who (00:58:58) wanted to be better so you're not going (00:58:59) to read the book unless you want to be (00:59:00) better anyway but in the book I I give (00:59:03) this I guess (00:59:05) advice I guess you'd call it advice and (00:59:08) I think that this is the the most (00:59:10) important thing that any parent can (00:59:12) know and it's probably more about you (00:59:14) than it is about the (00:59:18) kids and I I've said this I'm going to (00:59:20) read it do you mind if I we're going to (00:59:22) have a book reading right now okay into (00:59:25) the big in addition to the ideas that (00:59:27) I've shared in this book there's one (00:59:28) more thing that I believe every parent (00:59:30) needs to know when it comes to child (00:59:32) rearing you are good enough as a parent (00:59:37) who is intentional and devoted you will (00:59:41) feel like a failure a lot it's (00:59:43) inescapable you will be your own worst (00:59:46) critic now and then others might (00:59:48) criticize you as well even if they're (00:59:50) well-meaning your partner might point (00:59:52) out a parenting failure your parents or (00:59:53) in-laws or your own children may also (00:59:56) highlight a hypocrisy or inconsistency (00:59:59) you'll say you don't care but it still (01:00:02) hurts some days will be worse than (01:00:04) others but that feeling of inadequacy (01:00:07) The Never Ending question of am I enough (01:00:10) will be present (01:00:13) persistently now I'm going to skip (01:00:15) through a little bit here and and I just (01:00:17) want to be clear you you are enough you (01:00:19) need to believe that I've said (01:00:22) this in the novel 93 French vict (01:00:27) H sorry French writer Victor Hugo wrote (01:00:30) she broke the bread into two fragments (01:00:33) and gave them to her children who ate (01:00:35) with eagerness sheath kept none for (01:00:38) herself grumbled the (01:00:40) sergeant because she's not hungry said a (01:00:43) soldier no said the sergeant because she (01:00:47) is a (01:00:48) mother it's almost impossible to put (01:00:50) into words the depth of love that we (01:00:52) feel as parents towards our children as (01:00:55) cordel explained in Shakespeare's King (01:00:57) Le when speaking of her love for her (01:00:59) parent my love's richer than my tongue I (01:01:02) cannot (01:01:03) heave got a bit emotional my my my my (01:01:07) love is richer than my tongue I cannot (01:01:09) heave my heart into my mouth I love that (01:01:14) when when we think about our kids the (01:01:16) feelings in our heart we just can't (01:01:17) possibly put into words if you feel that (01:01:20) way towards your children then you are (01:01:22) enough the endless laundry the thankless (01:01:25) tasks related to m maintaining your home (01:01:27) the challenges children provide each (01:01:30) compounds to make us feel like it all (01:01:31) might be too much and Instagram makes it (01:01:34) look like everyone else is doing it so (01:01:35) well they get their pre-baby body back (01:01:37) in 5 weeks their meals all look like (01:01:39) they've come from a hated restaurant (01:01:40) kitchen and they seem to have so much (01:01:41) more time to spend doing meaningful (01:01:43) activities with their children the shest (01:01:46) way to feel poorly about your parenting (01:01:47) is to compare yourself with others (01:01:49) especially when you mostly only get to (01:01:50) see their highlights real let me let me (01:01:53) be really clear about this parenting is (01:01:56) as much about the good times on (01:01:58) Instagram as it is about those moments (01:02:01) you would never want anyone to (01:02:04) see it's about how we respond to the (01:02:08) runny noses the fussy eating the wet (01:02:10) beds the soiled underwear or the puddle (01:02:12) on the carpet that provides evidence (01:02:14) that the toilet training still has a way (01:02:15) to go it's about how we respond to the (01:02:17) complaints that my legs are sore and I (01:02:19) can't walk on tired mornings the Lost (01:02:22) School jumpers and the never- ending (01:02:24) sibling challenges that confront every (01:02:26) parent of more than one child our (01:02:28) responses to those micro moments that (01:02:30) occur endlessly day in and day out set (01:02:34) the foundation for our children's lives (01:02:37) right back to what you were talking (01:02:38) about Ken it's our response to that (01:02:40) little stuff that actually sets the (01:02:41) foundation last couple of lines as you (01:02:44) respond with patience (01:02:47) kindness understanding compassion and a (01:02:51) desire to help rather than hurt you're (01:02:54) doing enough you're doing (01:02:56) all that's required you're growing (01:02:59) you're (01:03:00) loving and you are enough as a (01:03:04) parent you're doing work that will never (01:03:07) be seen by anyone beyond your family but (01:03:09) the value of that Foundation that you (01:03:11) lay will last for Generations beautiful (01:03:14) beautiful beautiful summary so Dr Jon (01:03:16) Coulson if people want to find out more (01:03:18) about the book The 10 things every (01:03:19) parent needs to know are Positive (01:03:20) Solutions for everyday parenting (01:03:21) challenges where can they find out more (01:03:23) look it's it's all online happy (01:03:25) families.com (01:03:26) is where you find everything about me I (01:03:28) love to speak I love to work I love to (01:03:29) write I love to make a difference in (01:03:30) people's lives so and you're very very (01:03:33) passionate very invested man Dr Justin (01:03:35) Coulson thanks for being good on you (01:03:36) thanks K cheers mate there you have it (01:03:39) guys thanks for tuning in to Unstoppable (01:03:40) with me your host kwin Ray and do me a (01:03:43) favor don't forget to drop me a review (01:03:44) on iTunes we' love to hear what you (01:03:46) think I love reading what you guys have (01:03:48) to say and your reviews make sure we (01:03:50) keep creating killer content just like (01:03:52) this if you want to stay out to date (01:03:53) with me and all my movements please jump (01:03:55) onto the website C ray.com and also (01:03:57) check us out on social media at kinray (01:04:01) [Music]