Parenting Expert: Tips to make motherhood easier (most of the time!) Zoe Blaskey | A Millennial Mind (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) We're actually told that motherhood is (00:00:02) natural, right? That your instincts, (00:00:03) they just kick in. Your body will (00:00:05) actually bounce back. But neuroscience (00:00:07) says otherwise. And so does my guest (00:00:09) today. After reading your book, I'm a (00:00:10) bit nervous. You can't say I'll have joy (00:00:12) and I'll have happiness. I won't have (00:00:14) confusion, sadness, anger. It does not (00:00:17) work like that. What is mress? It's (00:00:19) called a developmental transition. Your (00:00:22) hormones change, your body changes, your (00:00:24) identity changes. Why is it that we're (00:00:27) told that motherhood is something that's (00:00:28) very intuitive? you'll pick it up. (00:00:30) Motherhood is something that you will (00:00:32) never find two people with the same (00:00:33) lived experience or opinion on. I've (00:00:35) spoken to thousands of women through (00:00:37) this period and I've never heard the (00:00:39) same story or experience twice. Why do (00:00:41) you think people don't share how (00:00:43) difficult motherhood is? (00:00:54) We all know that adolescence changes (00:00:56) your brain, your mood, your hormones, (00:00:58) and just so much more. And what if (00:01:01) motherhood does too, but no one really (00:01:03) talks about it? We're actually told that (00:01:05) motherhood is natural, right? That your (00:01:07) instincts, they just kick in. You'll (00:01:08) know what to do. Your body will actually (00:01:10) bounce back. But neuroscience says (00:01:12) otherwise. And so does my guest today. (00:01:14) Cuz pregnancy actually remodels a (00:01:17) woman's brain more than puberty lasting (00:01:19) for years. But we treat it like an event (00:01:22) and not a transformation and something (00:01:24) that we really need to understand. Some (00:01:26) say giving it a name like mattress over (00:01:29) complicates things. But today my guest (00:01:31) Zoe shows us how understanding this (00:01:33) language, talking about it, and using (00:01:36) these tools can really help us get (00:01:38) through motherhood. I have conversations (00:01:40) like this every single week that help us (00:01:43) to challenge the things that we've been (00:01:45) told, help us to shift our mindset and (00:01:48) to change our lives by learning these (00:01:51) new tools. So, if you love this episode, (00:01:53) if you've loved any of my previous (00:01:55) episodes, please do me a favor and press (00:01:57) that subscribe button. It is totally (00:01:59) free, but it helps me get incredible (00:02:02) guests like Zoe on this podcast every (00:02:04) single week. So, I'm very excited for (00:02:06) this episode because Zoe changes my mind (00:02:08) on motherhood and I'm very excited to (00:02:10) see if she changes your mind, too. Zoe, (00:02:13) >> hello. (00:02:14) >> Hi. (00:02:14) >> Welcome to Millennial Mind. (00:02:15) >> I'm so excited to be here. (00:02:17) >> I'm excited, but I'm also really nervous (00:02:19) for this conversation because after (00:02:20) reading your book, after getting the (00:02:22) feedback from my audience about what (00:02:23) they want me to talk to you about, I'm a (00:02:25) bit nervous. (00:02:26) >> Okay. I'm I'm in my 30s and having a (00:02:29) child is in the picture. It's not (00:02:31) something that is, you know, years and (00:02:32) years and years away. So, I have to (00:02:33) think about it. Yeah. So, I'm a bit (00:02:35) nervous about this conversation because (00:02:36) um I I don't know if by the end of it (00:02:38) I'm going to have the same opinion that (00:02:39) I do now. (00:02:40) >> Well, let's see. I will bring my best (00:02:43) kind of insight, knowledge, and tools. (00:02:44) And let's see where we go. (00:02:46) >> I mean, you're here to really change my (00:02:48) mind on what motherhood really means. (00:02:50) And I just want to preface this by (00:02:52) saying that the whole point of my show (00:02:54) is that we understand new perspectives. (00:02:56) We change our own minds on perhaps (00:02:58) certain narratives that we have and (00:03:00) certain stigmas and biases. And so (00:03:02) throughout this conversation, I just (00:03:04) want to emphasize it's not that I (00:03:06) personally disagree with you. It's just (00:03:08) that I'm trying to give a different (00:03:09) perspective because I know there are (00:03:10) people at home who perhaps might (00:03:12) disagree on certain bits and I just (00:03:14) really want to give both sides of the (00:03:15) story. (00:03:16) >> 100%. And motherhood is something that (00:03:18) >> you will never find two people with the (00:03:20) same lived experience or opinion on. You (00:03:23) will never in the same way as you would (00:03:25) never about their teenage years or about (00:03:27) life in general. So you know the aim of (00:03:29) my work is not to convince anyone of how (00:03:31) to feel or do it a certain way. The aim (00:03:34) of my work is to give you a set of (00:03:35) coaching tools so that you can figure it (00:03:37) out for you. (00:03:38) >> So what is really the essence of your (00:03:40) work? Why did you write this book (00:03:41) motherhood and really what is your goal (00:03:43) with your work? (00:03:45) >> So I was always fascinated by personal (00:03:47) development and coaching. That was my (00:03:49) kind of never my career before (00:03:50) motherhood but absolutely my passion. (00:03:53) And because of that I was trained in (00:03:55) coaching. I'd done meditation training. (00:03:57) I'd done a yoga training. To be honest, (00:03:59) I thought that I would find motherhood (00:04:00) okay from that perspective, (00:04:02) >> from the emotional perspective. I (00:04:05) thought I've got a lot of tools here. (00:04:07) >> But the opposite was true. I really, (00:04:10) really, really struggled. And so my (00:04:11) natural inclination was to look for the (00:04:13) workshops, the books, the talks, not (00:04:15) about parenting. I didn't need to know. (00:04:18) I mean, I did, but I already had the (00:04:19) knowledge on how to change a nappy, how (00:04:21) to do feeding, (00:04:22) >> how to, you know, parent a toddler. (00:04:25) Yeah, (00:04:26) >> what I needed was support for me, the (00:04:28) woman behind the mother, the massive (00:04:31) shift in my identity, massive shift in (00:04:34) my relationships. I completely changed (00:04:36) my career in motherhood, which is really (00:04:38) common. And I couldn't find the (00:04:41) community or support that I wanted. So I (00:04:43) started a podcast mainly for completely (00:04:45) selfish reasons because I wanted to have (00:04:48) the the conversations and turns out (00:04:50) millions of other women wanted to have (00:04:51) that conversation and then it morphed (00:04:52) into the book (00:04:54) >> and yeah here we are today. (00:04:56) >> That is amazing. I mean what you just (00:04:57) said I think is really important to kind (00:04:59) of note you were somebody who thought (00:05:01) that motherhood would be easy and that (00:05:03) you would be okay. Right. (00:05:05) >> Why is it that we're told that (00:05:08) motherhood is something that's very (00:05:09) intuitive? You'll pick it up. it will (00:05:11) come naturally to you. But most people (00:05:13) go into it feeling really anxious and (00:05:15) nervous and scared, but they don't feel (00:05:17) comfortable to talk about it because of (00:05:18) that original narrative. (00:05:20) >> Yeah. I think for a long time (00:05:22) we've had very binary view of motherhood (00:05:25) that it's joyful and it's a huge (00:05:28) privilege and that is absolutely true. (00:05:30) Without a doubt is one of the best (00:05:32) things I've ever done in my life. But I (00:05:34) think what we've been missing for a long (00:05:36) time is is the other side of that is how (00:05:38) challenging it can be and how much (00:05:41) support you need. Yes, from people (00:05:43) around you but also from within (00:05:45) yourself. So I talk a lot about that we (00:05:47) need we need a new way which is what the (00:05:49) book is about. We need some tools. We (00:05:52) need some self-awareness so that we can (00:05:55) go through this period of matressence as (00:05:56) I call it which is the transformation (00:05:58) into motherhood feeling like we have you (00:06:02) know some our confidence and we know how (00:06:04) to navigate the identity shifts because (00:06:06) if we don't know that something's coming (00:06:08) before I discovered that word I really (00:06:10) thought I was just doing it wrong. (00:06:12) >> Yeah. (00:06:12) >> I really did. It was only when I (00:06:14) learned, okay, this is this is a this is (00:06:16) a word. Matresence, (00:06:18) >> yeah, (00:06:18) >> this transition into motherhood isn't (00:06:21) six weeks. You know, people think we go (00:06:23) for the six week checkup, you get signed (00:06:25) off, and that's it. Absolutely not. It (00:06:27) actually can last anywhere between 2 to (00:06:28) seven years. So, we need to push the (00:06:31) timelines out. We need to give ourselves (00:06:33) much more kind of grace and (00:06:34) understanding. And my absolute passion (00:06:36) is coaching tools. So, I'm a trained (00:06:38) transformational coach. And what I do is (00:06:40) I give women the tools that they need to (00:06:41) figure out their own answers because in (00:06:44) motherhood we're all in the same sea, (00:06:46) right? We're all we're all mothers or (00:06:48) thinking about it and but we're not all (00:06:50) in the same boat. Yes. (00:06:51) >> You know, if you're a mother who has a (00:06:54) disabled child or you're disabled (00:06:56) yourself or you have a neurody divergent (00:06:58) child or you're non- divergent or you (00:06:59) have huge financial challenges or (00:07:02) >> mental health challenges, it's going to (00:07:03) be such a vast different experience than (00:07:06) someone who doesn't have any of those. (00:07:07) So, you can't be prescriptive in (00:07:09) motherhood. And I actually really don't (00:07:11) like any kind of experts or books or (00:07:14) podcasts that tell you how to do it. My (00:07:16) work is all about here's a framework. Go (00:07:18) and reflect on what this means for you (00:07:20) and how you can apply it in your life. (00:07:22) >> Wow. I love that. I want to talk about (00:07:24) this word matressence. (00:07:25) >> Yes. (00:07:25) >> I can't even pronounce it. I don't even (00:07:28) heard of it in my entire life. (00:07:30) >> What is matressence? So the best way to (00:07:34) describe it is to compare it to (00:07:36) adolescence which we all know right it's (00:07:38) that period in your life when you go (00:07:40) from being a teen to an adult when you (00:07:43) your body changes a lot (00:07:45) >> your hormones change a lot (00:07:47) >> who you are changes a lot through that (00:07:49) time you try on different identities (00:07:51) don't you like do I like grunge music or (00:07:53) pop music do I like this kind of boy or (00:07:55) this kind of you know (00:07:57) >> true I really tried a lot of different (00:07:59) identities on through my since before at (00:08:01) sort of 22. I was probably like, "Okay, (00:08:03) I sort of know a little bit who I am as (00:08:06) an adult." Well, mressence is exactly (00:08:08) the same process. It's called a (00:08:11) developmental transition. (00:08:13) >> Exactly the same, but it's when you (00:08:15) become a mother. So, if you think about (00:08:17) it, it's lots of similarities. Your (00:08:19) hormones change, your body changes, (00:08:23) >> right? (00:08:24) >> Your identity changes. (00:08:25) >> Why? Why does your identity change? (00:08:27) because you are now responsible for (00:08:30) another human father. (00:08:33) >> Yeah, of course. And petence exists the (00:08:36) same. (00:08:36) >> Ah okay. Okay. Okay. Interesting. (00:08:38) >> So patence is the transition that men go (00:08:41) through less studied than matressence (00:08:42) and matressence is barely studied but (00:08:46) you know my work centers on on (00:08:48) matressence of course cuz that's my (00:08:50) lived experience but petressants yeah (00:08:52) just as significant. (00:08:53) >> Okay fine. (00:08:54) >> Absolutely. Someone needs to write the (00:08:55) Petresence book. which hasn't been there (00:08:57) market out there everyone sorry which (00:08:59) hasn't been written yet (00:09:01) >> there's there's your body changes (00:09:02) >> your identity changes your values change (00:09:05) so what what is very very common in (00:09:07) motherhood and what a lot of my audience (00:09:09) and this is my own lived experience as (00:09:10) well is they'll say for an example you (00:09:13) know before work before motherhood I was (00:09:15) just obsessed with my career all I (00:09:17) wanted to do was grow my business grow (00:09:20) my career get a promotion now I feel (00:09:22) really differently about that I feel way (00:09:25) more interested in how can I grow a (00:09:28) sustainable career so that I can be (00:09:30) there after school or the the inverse (00:09:33) sometimes happens actually which is also (00:09:35) kind of my experience too I've never (00:09:36) felt anything that I've felt (00:09:38) passionately about before motherhood (00:09:39) that's why so many businesses start get (00:09:42) started by mothers in motherhood right (00:09:44) because you spot gaps in the market that (00:09:45) you never spot and you feel really (00:09:47) passionately about helping to to fill (00:09:50) that gap so your relationship to work in (00:09:52) fact I don't think I've met a mother who (00:09:54) her relationship to work hasn't changed (00:09:57) often in a really amazing way. So we (00:10:02) know that as mothers we our efficiency (00:10:05) rises our output in limited number of (00:10:08) hours rises because suddenly you know if (00:10:09) I think about before motherhood I would (00:10:12) perfect a presentation till midnight (00:10:14) often be like I just want to get it (00:10:16) right you know I'd sit there there was (00:10:17) no consequences to that other than me (00:10:20) and my time now I'm like I have to get (00:10:23) this you know I have 15 minutes till (00:10:25) school pickup and I'm going to I'm going (00:10:27) to get this and I'm going to get out the (00:10:28) door because I've got this pull that I (00:10:30) want to hang out with my children after (00:10:33) school. So, the way that you manage your (00:10:34) time, your relationship to time (00:10:37) completely changes. I'm (00:10:40) >> so worried about all of this. (00:10:41) >> You don't need you don't need to be (00:10:42) worried about it. You need to you need (00:10:44) to have some tools for it, which is what (00:10:46) my work does. (00:10:47) >> But I think that it it scares me because (00:10:50) it seems that everything changes so (00:10:52) drastically. (00:10:53) >> But also, there's no empathy and (00:10:54) understanding because it was your (00:10:56) choice. (00:10:56) >> Mhm. (00:10:56) >> You chose to have children. (00:10:58) >> Yeah. (00:10:58) >> No one forced you to. Yeah. (00:11:00) >> And I think this is why we're seeing so (00:11:01) many people choose not to have children. (00:11:04) It's because we all now value (00:11:05) independence. (00:11:07) >> You know, for a lot of women, you know, (00:11:08) that I know, they're they didn't grow up (00:11:11) with an independent envir in an (00:11:13) independent environment. You know, they (00:11:15) didn't have the choice or the money or (00:11:17) the tools or anything to just be like, (00:11:19) I'm going to go do what I want. (00:11:20) >> Yeah. (00:11:20) >> And now that they have that, it's now (00:11:23) very scary to now go into the stage of (00:11:24) your life where that's going to be taken (00:11:26) away from you. That's how it feels. (00:11:28) >> Mhm. So, how how do we not feel nervous (00:11:32) around this? So, people who are watching (00:11:34) thinking, "Oh my god, this is like this (00:11:36) is how I'm feeling right now." I guess a (00:11:38) selfish question like how do I not feel (00:11:39) nervous around that? I think you (00:11:42) get self-awareness. (00:11:45) So, (00:11:47) fear (00:11:48) is kind of expectations that aren't real (00:11:51) yet. (00:11:51) >> Correct. (00:11:52) >> That's what fear is, right? We project (00:11:54) that we're not going to be able to cope (00:11:55) into the future. (00:11:56) >> Yes. (00:11:57) >> Okay. So the way to the way to get rid (00:12:00) of that fear is to think about okay I'm (00:12:04) guessing that you are someone who's (00:12:06) going to want to keep working. I am (00:12:07) guessing that you are someone who's (00:12:08) going to want to keep pushing for your (00:12:10) career. (00:12:11) >> Yeah. (00:12:11) >> So let's (00:12:12) >> I don't know. (00:12:13) >> You don't know but you can make (00:12:14) different plans, right? So okay so say (00:12:16) I'm in motherhood and you know I want to (00:12:18) go back after 3 months. I want to go (00:12:19) after back six months. I want want to go (00:12:21) back after one year. What would my plan (00:12:23) be? you need to be discussing with your (00:12:24) husband. (00:12:25) >> What's the child care cost of that going (00:12:27) to be? How are we going to share that (00:12:28) out? When are you going to go back? Are (00:12:30) you going to take shared leave with me? (00:12:32) >> You know, you these are the types of (00:12:34) conversations that will start to allay (00:12:37) your fears because when you you know, (00:12:40) fear is about the unknown. (00:12:42) >> Correct. (00:12:42) >> If you can make it more known, now (00:12:44) obviously there are unknowns, right? How (00:12:45) you're going to feel, the type of baby (00:12:47) that you're going to get, the type of (00:12:49) father that your husband's going to turn (00:12:50) into. But life is full of unknowns. It's (00:12:53) true. (00:12:54) >> We have to have both sides of it, right? (00:12:56) The logic. I'm going to make a plan. (00:12:58) I've got some tools from Zoe. I'm going (00:12:59) to work out what I'm doing and what I'm (00:13:02) going to need and how I'm going to (00:13:03) knowing myself currently (00:13:05) >> navigate this period. That's going to (00:13:07) feel really empowering. Okay. And then (00:13:10) there's the sort of trust part, right? (00:13:12) So, we have the logic and we have the (00:13:13) heart and the trust. And the trust is I (00:13:15) trust that I'm going to figure this out. (00:13:17) I've figured everything out up until my (00:13:19) life at this point and I've overcome (00:13:20) some really big challenges. I'm sure you (00:13:22) have. We all have, right? (00:13:24) >> And I will I will figure this out. (00:13:26) >> Yeah. (00:13:26) >> And you when you have those two, then (00:13:28) what you'll notice is the the (00:13:30) nervousness and the fear will start to (00:13:32) dissipate. And don't forget as well to (00:13:34) think about all the things that you're (00:13:36) looking forward to, how incredible it's (00:13:38) going to be. (00:13:39) >> Yeah. I mean, (00:13:39) >> and I think it's it's it's both. We have (00:13:41) to do true (00:13:42) >> all those things. (00:13:43) >> I mean, I've already had those (00:13:44) conversations. I've I've had them for (00:13:45) like the last three years. I know (00:13:46) exactly what I'm going to do in order to (00:13:47) prepare cuz I've always wanted to make (00:13:50) sure that I keep working. Like my (00:13:51) >> smart and I feel scared to say how long (00:13:54) after I want to start working because I (00:13:55) think the the whole point I want to (00:13:57) share in this podcast is with like (00:13:58) people are going to judge you either (00:13:59) way. (00:14:00) >> Yes. (00:14:00) >> If I go back to work the next day, okay, (00:14:03) not the next day. If I go back to work a (00:14:04) week later, right, people will be like, (00:14:06) "How the hell did you do that?" But I (00:14:08) might just be in a position where I'm (00:14:10) able to do that because my baby just (00:14:13) magically went to sleep. And also I also (00:14:16) I also want to ask you this question. (00:14:17) Does everybody go through matressins? (00:14:19) Because I personally believe and I might (00:14:21) be totally wrong here and totally (00:14:23) deluded and I have zero experience and I (00:14:26) have no no awareness on this. So I just (00:14:27) want to clarify that when people say (00:14:29) like you have no idea what you're (00:14:30) talking about. Correct. I have no idea (00:14:31) what I'm talking about. Hence I'm asking (00:14:32) the question. Does everybody go through (00:14:34) matressence? Because I look at it as a (00:14:35) very mindset thing in the sense that do (00:14:38) some people find it very very hard to (00:14:41) deal with no sleep, deal with the fact (00:14:44) that they have uh someone that they have (00:14:46) to look after and deal with this massive (00:14:48) change in their life or are some people (00:14:51) like I was born to do this. I wanted to (00:14:54) do it and it's my job like I wanted to (00:14:57) do this. So like I am equipped. I'm I'm (00:15:00) ready. it's going to be difficult and (00:15:02) I'm ready for it cuz I see challenges in (00:15:04) life and I do think that some people are (00:15:06) able to cope with stress and less sleep (00:15:09) and they're able to push through and (00:15:10) they're able to grind and some people (00:15:12) are not and I see this kind of attitude (00:15:15) as like some people can can do more (00:15:16) stuff than others and I do think that's (00:15:18) a fact by the way if you have a strong (00:15:20) mindset I do think you're able to push (00:15:21) through more that's just my personal (00:15:23) opinion (00:15:24) >> yeah so every single woman will and (00:15:28) father will have a different experience (00:15:30) of metrics and petressants based on (00:15:34) hundreds of factors, thousands of (00:15:36) factors. I've spoken to thousands of (00:15:39) women through this period and I've never (00:15:41) heard the same exact story or experience (00:15:44) twice (00:15:44) >> really. (00:15:45) >> Because if you think about it, think (00:15:48) about how many people had the exact same (00:15:49) experience through their adolescence. (00:15:51) Oh, I was supported. I wasn't supported. (00:15:53) My boyfriend dumped me. My best friend (00:15:55) dumped me. I was bullied. I hated maths (00:15:56) and I had to do maths a level or I (00:15:58) didn't know what uni you know there (00:16:00) there's no one (00:16:01) >> if we had and it's exactly the same with (00:16:04) matressence now the mindset thing is (00:16:06) really fascinating because (00:16:09) to some extent yes but I think it's less (00:16:12) about my experience (00:16:14) >> is that it's less about having a mindset (00:16:16) of hustle and grind and pushing through (00:16:19) that serves you through this period the (00:16:21) mindset that actually serves you best I (00:16:24) think is selfrust self-awareness and (00:16:26) self-compassion. (00:16:27) >> Why? That's so interesting. (00:16:29) >> Because if you try and push through (00:16:32) exhaustion, (00:16:33) >> yeah, you that you you you might burn (00:16:35) out. Okay, that's the the burnout (00:16:37) factors uh in early motherhood are (00:16:40) really really really high. And you know (00:16:43) there is a high risk that you might burn (00:16:46) out. Okay. (00:16:47) >> Tell me what burnout means cuz cuz one (00:16:49) thing I would say is that this term (00:16:50) burnout is very new, isn't it? So what (00:16:52) does this (00:16:53) >> Yeah. So it's interesting because (00:16:54) burnout is actually defined from a work (00:16:56) perspective. That was the pure (00:16:58) definition of it from a work perspective (00:17:01) if it's essentially when you lose your (00:17:03) kind of sense of purpose. What you used (00:17:05) to enjoy you don't enjoy anymore. You (00:17:06) feel extremely fatigued in that you (00:17:09) can't things. You know a night sleep (00:17:11) doesn't fix burnout. That's what burnout (00:17:13) is. But you get caregivers per burnout, (00:17:16) specifically maternal burnout where when (00:17:19) you give too much for too long (00:17:22) essentially without replenishing (00:17:23) yourself and in the book there's like (00:17:25) really specific short ways for how to do (00:17:27) thating, (00:17:28) >> that's when you can get to that point of (00:17:30) burnout. But the reason I say (00:17:31) self-awareness and self-compassion is (00:17:34) such a powerful mindset to take into (00:17:36) this is because every single day is new (00:17:39) and different when you're going through (00:17:41) this period. (00:17:42) And if you have that mindset of I'm just (00:17:45) going to push through and I'm going to (00:17:46) do it. I'm not sure that's going to (00:17:48) serve you. As well as a mindset of (00:17:52) however I handle this, I'm going to give (00:17:53) myself grace. A bad day, I'm going to (00:17:56) give myself grace. I'm everything feels (00:17:58) like it's out of control and I'm (00:18:00) struggling and I'm not doing as well at (00:18:01) work that I wanted and I I don't feel (00:18:03) like I'm the mother I thought I was (00:18:04) going to be, which is really common (00:18:06) experience. If you can have a mindset of (00:18:09) I'm figuring this out, (00:18:11) >> it's okay. I'm doing all right. (00:18:14) >> Self-compassion is incredibly powerful. (00:18:17) And we think that actually that (00:18:19) hustling, pushing through mindset is (00:18:21) what drives resilience. It's not. So (00:18:23) there's an incredible researcher called (00:18:25) Dr. Kristen Nef who's really the pioneer (00:18:27) of self-compassion. (00:18:29) And her studies show that actually the (00:18:31) more compassionate someone is, the more (00:18:32) resilient they are. (00:18:34) >> Wow. I wonder why. Because if you are (00:18:39) someone who is incredibly hard on (00:18:41) yourself so and you you know you try (00:18:45) something and you that inner critic (00:18:47) comes up you are going to be less (00:18:48) resilient, less able to keep going. If (00:18:51) you're someone who says it's okay, we (00:18:52) had a bad day. (00:18:53) >> Yeah, (00:18:53) >> let's go. (00:18:54) >> I do agree on that. (00:18:55) >> So let's go the next day. So you know (00:18:57) it's the same with feelings. We tend to (00:18:58) think that pushing down our feelings and (00:19:01) cracking on and having a strong mindset. (00:19:04) Absolutely not. Real resilience is being (00:19:06) able to feel our feelings. To be able to (00:19:08) have a sob, you know, when the baby's (00:19:10) feeding and you're like, "This is awful (00:19:12) and I'm exhausted." Letting that out, (00:19:15) not pushing through. That's what real (00:19:17) resilience is. There was a study that I (00:19:19) talk about in the book where they invite (00:19:21) two groups of participants to drop their (00:19:24) hands in absolutely freezing cold water. (00:19:27) One group had to be very stoic, not say (00:19:30) a word, not let any of that feeling out. (00:19:33) one group were allowed to scream and (00:19:35) shout and yell and let all the feelings (00:19:37) out as their hands are in this cold (00:19:38) water. And which group do you think (00:19:40) lasted longer? (00:19:41) >> Feelings of course. (00:19:42) >> Yeah, of course. (00:19:43) >> Of course. (00:19:44) >> So, I think the mindset to have is (00:19:47) >> this is going to be new. I've never done (00:19:49) this before. You've never met I'd never (00:19:51) met motherhood Zoe. I've never met Zoe (00:19:53) as a mother. So that self-awareness and (00:19:56) that self-compassion, you know, I didn't (00:19:58) have it back then, (00:19:59) >> but I know now that's by far the (00:20:02) strongest mindset to to take into (00:20:04) Matressants. That's really interesting. (00:20:06) I I definitely think I have a little bit (00:20:08) of a combination of both. (00:20:09) >> Yeah. (00:20:10) >> And you know, yesterday was one of those (00:20:12) days where I just sobbed the whole (00:20:14) evening. I cried for like 3 hours in a (00:20:17) public place as well. I had to tell the (00:20:18) owner like, "Sorry about that. Meltdown. (00:20:20) See you later." He was like, "Okay, (00:20:22) bye." Um, and I do feel better, but I (00:20:25) definitely feel like I want to come down (00:20:28) today. (00:20:30) >> You cried so much (00:20:32) >> because sometimes I think, you know, for (00:20:33) me, I am someone who just pushes (00:20:34) through. (00:20:35) >> I can really sense that about you. (00:20:37) >> Yeah, I do. I really push through and I (00:20:39) I just really I love my work so much (00:20:41) that I want to do it 24/7 all day long. (00:20:43) And sometimes I go through these phases (00:20:45) where I just have ideas constantly. (00:20:48) >> Same. (00:20:48) >> And then sometimes I have none. But like (00:20:50) I'm in a phase right now. I wake up in (00:20:51) the middle of the night, the first thing (00:20:52) I think of in the morning, like I'm (00:20:53) keeping a notepad by my bed, you know, (00:20:54) that's the that's the phase I'm going (00:20:56) through, but it's really challenging (00:20:57) because I have to learn to rein it in (00:21:00) and to focus on those key kind of (00:21:01) metrics. (00:21:02) >> Y (00:21:02) >> I want to talk about the study that you (00:21:03) just actually mentioned. The one where (00:21:05) people explain their feelings and the (00:21:07) people who didn't say anything. (00:21:08) >> I think there's two types of mothers in (00:21:10) this world. The ones that when you meet (00:21:12) them, they'll be like, "Oh my god, it is (00:21:15) like I'm going through it. It is so (00:21:17) hard. I'm dying. It's like so difficult. (00:21:20) I love it. I love my baby. Don't wish (00:21:22) anything else. Like I'm very grateful. (00:21:23) They always caveat it by saying that. (00:21:25) Then you have the other other mothers (00:21:26) who you meet and they're just like, (00:21:27) "Yeah, everything's fine." Like it's (00:21:29) okay. Mhm. Why do you think people don't (00:21:32) share how difficult motherhood is? Cuz (00:21:35) there are a lot of people that say to me (00:21:38) that they really enjoy it and that it's (00:21:40) and that it is great. And when I tell a (00:21:42) mother who is in the other category, (00:21:44) she's like, "They're lying." They are (00:21:46) 100% lying. Every mother is going (00:21:49) through it. (00:21:50) >> Is that true? (00:21:51) >> Well, well, there's not just two types (00:21:52) of mothers. I I hate to be honest (00:21:55) reductive. There's two types of No, (00:21:57) there's there's thousands of (00:21:59) >> types of mothers if we want to use that (00:22:01) phrase. (00:22:02) >> Trigger in this episode. Sorry. (00:22:03) >> Yeah. Not triggered, but just (00:22:05) challenging you back. (00:22:06) >> I love it. I think that, you know, the (00:22:09) reality is (00:22:11) is that on any given day, on any given (00:22:15) week, on any given month, that same (00:22:18) woman might be having an unbelievable (00:22:21) day with her baby. She might have met (00:22:24) some friends, gone for a walk in the (00:22:26) park. She might have breastfed on a (00:22:27) bench. The sun might have been on her (00:22:29) face. She might have felt more peace and (00:22:32) connection (00:22:33) >> with that baby in that moment than she's (00:22:35) ever felt in her life. (00:22:37) >> She might feel like this doesn't get (00:22:40) better than this. (00:22:42) >> The next month, she might have been (00:22:45) unwell. The baby might have had a cold. (00:22:47) The baby might not have slept for hours. (00:22:49) She might have had an argument with her (00:22:50) husband about the mental load, about, (00:22:52) you know, he's not done the washing up (00:22:54) or cooked dinner for the week. She might (00:22:57) have had an argument with her best (00:22:58) friend. She might have been had some (00:23:00) financial stress. She might just be (00:23:03) feeling overwhelmed. You know, her (00:23:05) breast might be engaged. She might be (00:23:06) coming down with mastitis. I don't know. (00:23:08) And on that day, she might say, "This is (00:23:10) the hardest thing that I've ever done." (00:23:12) >> Like you yesterday, right? In that (00:23:14) moment, if I'd have taken a moment and (00:23:16) gone, Shiovani's having a meltdown. She (00:23:20) And then look at you this morning. (00:23:22) You're like, I'm I'm experiencing you as (00:23:25) smart, intelligent, passionate, (00:23:27) challenging, brilliant podcast host. (00:23:30) >> Thank you. I'm going to (00:23:32) >> So we we can never say that there's (00:23:35) there's two types of anything. What (00:23:37) there is is is a broad spectrum of (00:23:39) experiences that every single one of us (00:23:41) will go through in in every single day, (00:23:44) week, month, and season of motherhoods. (00:23:46) Like I found motherhood really difficult (00:23:49) when my children were preverbal. Well, (00:23:51) obviously because I'm a communicator. (00:23:53) That is my job. Now that we communicate, (00:23:56) I am like (00:23:57) >> in my amazing mom era. Like I am such a (00:24:01) good mother now that I can use words and (00:24:03) we can discuss ideas and I can teach (00:24:05) them things and I absolutely (00:24:08) genuinely love it. (00:24:10) >> Wow. (00:24:11) >> When they were little and preverbal, I (00:24:13) found that much more challenging. (00:24:16) Equally, you know, many shades of that. (00:24:17) And there are people who the other way (00:24:18) around. They loved it when they were (00:24:20) little daughtery toddlers and you know (00:24:22) going to the messy play and I didn't (00:24:24) connect with any of that experience. (00:24:26) That's why I'm saying self-compassion is (00:24:28) absolutely vital. (00:24:29) >> You will find your season. You will find (00:24:32) your you will find your pace. You will (00:24:34) find your joy. But you have to be very (00:24:35) very graceful and gentle (00:24:37) >> with yourself as you go through it. (00:24:40) That's why it's called matressence. (00:24:41) That's why it's a process. (00:24:43) >> I really love that you just shared that (00:24:45) because yeah, I think you're totally (00:24:46) right. If you if you'd spoken to me (00:24:48) yesterday, I would have said it's the (00:24:48) hardest thing in the world. And actually (00:24:50) yesterday when I was crying so much and (00:24:52) I was like, I just can't do it anymore. (00:24:53) I've remembered I said on a podcast, (00:24:56) it's so great to do this job. It's just (00:24:58) amazing. And I remember saying it (00:25:00) >> and I remember the next day being like, (00:25:02) oh my god, I shouldn't have said that. (00:25:04) But it was in on that day, you're so (00:25:05) right. I was just having the best day. (00:25:07) And I was thinking, this is easy (00:25:08) motherhood. This is fun. (00:25:10) >> Is exactly the same. God says you're (00:25:13) going to say this is the human (00:25:15) experience, right? The human experience (00:25:17) is that we get to feel our range of (00:25:20) feelings. That's how we are designed to (00:25:22) be. We can't selectively (00:25:25) >> numb. Right? Breny Brown teaches this. (00:25:26) You can't you can't take, oh, you can't (00:25:28) say, I'll have joy and I'll have (00:25:30) happiness and I'll have passion and (00:25:32) purpose, but I won't have (00:25:34) >> confusion, sadness, anger. It does not (00:25:37) work like that. You're connected to your (00:25:38) feelings or you're not. So the fact the (00:25:41) fact that you have these highs where you (00:25:43) go I love my job is because you're (00:25:45) willing to go to the lows (00:25:47) >> that is how that is how it works. And (00:25:50) I'm a cancerian, so I like really really (00:25:51) really feel it, you know, like (00:25:53) >> and motherhood's the same, right? So on (00:25:55) some days, if if say you had a baby with (00:25:57) you yesterday, you would have gone, (00:25:58) "This is the hardest thing. I can't do (00:25:59) it." Today, you'd be like, "I love it." (00:26:01) >> Yeah, it's so true. (00:26:02) >> So when those mothers who say she's (00:26:05) lying (00:26:06) >> to that woman, she's not lying. She's (00:26:08) just in a season where she is enjoying (00:26:10) it. (00:26:10) >> I love that. I love that you just said (00:26:12) that cuz I think that it's also really (00:26:14) relevant to life. Of course, (00:26:16) >> you know, there's going to be times like (00:26:17) even with your own business, there's (00:26:18) times where I just think like everything (00:26:20) is doing amazing. You know, sometimes (00:26:22) I'm like, "Wow, everything's going well. (00:26:24) My my other days is disaster. My (00:26:26) relationship's amazing. My work is (00:26:28) amazing. The weather is amazing." (00:26:31) >> And like days like yesterday, I'm like, (00:26:33) I I hate it all. Like, and you feel (00:26:36) you're at this pit, you know? But I (00:26:38) think what you're trying to say which is (00:26:39) I think it's really really important (00:26:41) here is give yourself the grace to know (00:26:43) that it's temporary which is just you (00:26:45) know like your coaching is coming out (00:26:46) here because I think that's also you (00:26:48) know what a life coach will tell you as (00:26:49) well in life everything is temporary and (00:26:52) we've got to remember that in order to (00:26:54) feel the good we've got to also (00:26:56) experience the bad or else we won't (00:26:57) appreciate it. (00:26:58) >> Exactly. And you you asked me, you know, (00:26:59) at the front of the conversation, you (00:27:01) know, why is, you know, why are we so (00:27:03) used to talking about the joy and we're (00:27:05) not used to talking about this is and (00:27:07) this is what I'm trying to bring to this (00:27:09) this conversation here and in the book (00:27:11) and in all my work in that (00:27:13) >> life is feeling amazing some days, (00:27:16) feeling horrific other days. And so is (00:27:19) motherhood. And we're allowed to talk (00:27:21) about both without feeling shame, (00:27:24) >> without having to say, "But I love my (00:27:25) kids." because it is part of the (00:27:29) experience of you know owning a business (00:27:32) of being in a marriage of living in a (00:27:35) human body you know some days you love (00:27:37) your body some days you hate it's (00:27:38) everything everything is nuanced and up (00:27:41) and down motherhood included so if you (00:27:44) can go into motherhood with the idea (00:27:46) that (00:27:47) >> big picture I think that I'm going to (00:27:48) love this I think it's going to be the (00:27:50) best thing that I will ever do I also (00:27:52) know dayto day (00:27:54) >> week to week month to month I'm going to (00:27:57) experience the full range of human (00:27:59) emotions just like I have growing my (00:28:01) business or in my marriage or in my (00:28:04) whatever it is. (00:28:04) >> Yes. (00:28:05) >> I think if you can go in with that, you (00:28:07) are really really well prepared. (00:28:09) >> I think a lot of us are fearful to say (00:28:11) that we're struggling with something cuz (00:28:13) people will say that we don't appreciate (00:28:15) it or that it's not good. So if I was to (00:28:17) go on the internet and say I had an (00:28:18) argument with my husband today, right, (00:28:20) people would be like, "Well, we hate (00:28:21) him." And I think that my family and my (00:28:23) friends who follow me on Instagram, his (00:28:25) family and friends who follow me on (00:28:26) Instagram would be mortified because (00:28:29) they would say, "Why would you put that (00:28:30) online?" There is not one couple in the (00:28:33) world who doesn't argue. (00:28:34) >> Yeah. Not one. There is not one couple (00:28:36) in the world who doesn't feel frustrated (00:28:38) at each other or angry. (00:28:40) >> Of course, (00:28:40) >> it's part of love. (00:28:42) >> And I think when you have children, I (00:28:43) think it's so important to remember like (00:28:45) you can feel so frustrated and angry and (00:28:47) annoyed at your child, but also really (00:28:50) love them. Of course, but people are (00:28:51) scared to say that. And I think the (00:28:53) reason people are scared to say that is (00:28:55) because as women, we are trained I I (00:28:58) 100% think this about myself is I'm (00:29:00) trained to have it all. I want to have (00:29:02) it all. And I know I coach people too. I (00:29:04) know my logical brain. I cannot have it (00:29:07) all. There is never a time that I can be (00:29:09) the best wife, the best daughter, the (00:29:12) best daughter-in-law, the best (00:29:13) businesswoman, the best friend, and the (00:29:16) best of every other thing. Like I can't (00:29:17) do it. There's not enough hours in the (00:29:19) day. (00:29:19) >> Exactly. Right. But I want to be and I (00:29:21) think that it's because we're told that (00:29:24) women can have it all. Right. How do you (00:29:28) think this pressure for us came around? (00:29:31) Well, having the the concept of having (00:29:33) it all is absolutely fascinating because (00:29:35) in my world, in the motherhood world, it (00:29:37) was never meant to apply to women (00:29:39) having, you know, a hot marriage and an (00:29:42) amazing career and, you know, these (00:29:45) three children running around and (00:29:46) they're ever present. Having it all was (00:29:48) coined by the editor of Cosmopolitan (00:29:50) magazine in the 1980s which was about (00:29:53) her having this incredible career and a (00:29:56) partner. Wow. It has come been morphed (00:29:59) into the sort of conversation about (00:30:01) motherhood. So that's the first thing. (00:30:03) It was never meant to be even a conver (00:30:06) because obviously you cannot have you (00:30:09) cannot you cannot have your agame in all (00:30:11) of those areas at the same time. Can you (00:30:14) have them over a long season? (00:30:15) Absolutely. Can you have them over even (00:30:17) weeks? Absolutely. Can you have them (00:30:19) even over days? Absolutely. But you (00:30:22) cannot have them constantly at the same (00:30:25) >> time. So I think you know what I teach (00:30:27) and I coach I have the privilege of (00:30:29) coaching just some really high achieving (00:30:32) >> women across you know such a range of (00:30:34) industries and I think it's really about (00:30:36) understanding you know what is your (00:30:38) priority in this season and how are you (00:30:41) going to design your life and your (00:30:43) boundaries around that. It's life (00:30:45) coaching 101. It's just that before I (00:30:48) came along, no one had applied this sort (00:30:50) of thinking into early motherhood when (00:30:54) you have never felt more pressure, less (00:30:57) time and more exhausted. I think one of (00:30:59) the reasons I personally feel like I (00:31:01) have to do it all is cuz I grew up in a (00:31:03) joint family and a lot of Indian (00:31:05) families grow up in joint families which (00:31:07) means for me, you know, I grew up with (00:31:09) my parents but also my dad's brother and (00:31:11) his wife and then with my grandma. There (00:31:13) was nine of us living in a house. And (00:31:14) that's not uncommon, by the way. (00:31:16) >> But what comes with that, by the way, is (00:31:17) seeing your mom's do it all. My mom (00:31:21) worked. My mom looked after us. She did (00:31:23) the laundry. She did the cooking. She (00:31:25) did the driving. She did everything, you (00:31:27) know, and she never complained. I've (00:31:29) never heard my mom when I was growing up (00:31:32) ever complain about it. I mean, now we (00:31:33) have conversations and she's like, "Oh (00:31:34) my god, it was so hard." And I think (00:31:36) it's very normal for her to say that now (00:31:38) because she's looking on reflection and (00:31:40) looking at she always says how did I do (00:31:42) it? (00:31:43) >> You know cuz she said that she went back (00:31:44) she was breastfeeding me I think 2 weeks (00:31:47) and she was working like in in in a shop (00:31:50) that my dad owned (00:31:51) >> you know she was like I remember still (00:31:53) breastfeeding you and just starting to (00:31:55) breastfeed you and I was like in the van (00:31:57) >> on the way you know or she would be like (00:31:59) I would do it at the back when the (00:32:00) customers would be at the front. So her (00:32:02) telling me all these stories she was (00:32:03) always like I don't know how I did it (00:32:04) but (00:32:06) I've never seen my mom complain. And so (00:32:09) I feel really guilty when I'm not able (00:32:11) to do it all. And I mean, I'm not a (00:32:13) mother yet, but I'm now a wife. And I (00:32:17) personally find it difficult to (00:32:22) do all the things that I think a good (00:32:24) wife does (00:32:26) and also be a good business woman. And (00:32:29) that's like really scary for me to share (00:32:31) this on this podcast, by the I feel like (00:32:32) really nervous to say that (00:32:34) >> because I know there's people that are (00:32:35) going to say like what does that even (00:32:37) mean? You know, I think if I asked you (00:32:38) to define what does a good mother mean, (00:32:40) would you be able to tell me? Because (00:32:41) every opinion is so subjective and you (00:32:44) know what I think is a good wife maybe (00:32:46) like you might think oh my god that's (00:32:48) just crazy or you might think that's not (00:32:49) good enough at all. I think it's about (00:32:52) our own definitions and I think our own (00:32:53) definitions comes from our own (00:32:55) experiences. (00:32:57) What do you say to women who have had (00:32:59) experiences of their own mothers that (00:33:01) have done so much for them? They worked (00:33:04) their ass off, but they also dropped (00:33:06) them to school every single day and said (00:33:08) a lullaby before bed and read them 100 (00:33:10) toys and then bought them loads of gifts (00:33:11) and, you know, perhaps never had the (00:33:13) chance to tell them how hard they found (00:33:15) it. So, they've now got that expectation (00:33:19) on themselves to say, "I must do this." (00:33:22) And it's not even conscious, it's (00:33:23) subconscious. (00:33:24) >> Yeah. I love this cuz this is this is (00:33:26) the core of my work is that you know as (00:33:29) you know as a as a coach the the the (00:33:32) beliefs that we have in the world get (00:33:33) set up when we're really young typically (00:33:35) before seven. So what we saw our mothers (00:33:38) doing when we were young is the (00:33:39) blueprint that we've absorbed (00:33:40) subconsciously of what we think a good (00:33:43) mother does. (00:33:44) >> Yeah. (00:33:44) >> One of the most important things and I (00:33:46) would really I'd be happy to do this (00:33:48) with you offline but one of the most (00:33:49) important things to do is to think about (00:33:52) what have I absorbed? What are my (00:33:54) beliefs about what a good mother does? (00:33:56) You could even do it for your role as a (00:33:57) wife. Like what are my beliefs? Get them (00:33:59) all written down. Cuz when I did this, I (00:34:02) was shocked. I was like, wow. (00:34:06) >> Because it didn't feel like it fit like (00:34:08) who I am now. And I could see, okay, (00:34:10) this is just cultural. (00:34:12) >> This is what I saw my mother doing. This (00:34:14) is what I saw my mother's mother doing. (00:34:15) This is what I saw around me. So once (00:34:18) you've got that list of you've got those (00:34:20) subconscious beliefs written out, that (00:34:23) is super powerful in itself because it's (00:34:25) our subconscious beliefs that drive our (00:34:28) behavior and our actions, our decisions. (00:34:30) So if you don't do this, you might find (00:34:32) yourself doing motherhood in a way where (00:34:34) you just feel like this doesn't really (00:34:35) feel like me. That will be why because (00:34:38) you're being driven by subconscious (00:34:39) beliefs. (00:34:40) >> So you get them all written out. This is (00:34:42) what I think a good mother should do. (00:34:43) And then you think about the next super (00:34:46) empowering step which is what feels true (00:34:49) for me. (00:34:50) >> What do I want to do? (00:34:51) >> What do I want to do? (00:34:53) >> Mhm. (00:34:53) >> And then you know some of that might not (00:34:55) be realistic in your circumstances in (00:34:57) your culture. That's okay too. You think (00:34:58) what would 50% of this look like? What (00:35:00) would even if I nudged 10% closer (00:35:03) towards this? What would that what would (00:35:04) that look like? So that's a super (00:35:07) powerful exercise that everyone should (00:35:10) do regardless of their sort of culture (00:35:12) or because every single person's culture (00:35:14) would have been different would have (00:35:16) seen had a different experience of their (00:35:17) mother. There's also another super (00:35:19) powerful tool that I love in the book uh (00:35:21) around breaking cycles and thinking (00:35:24) really consciously around what do I want (00:35:26) to do differently. (00:35:27) >> Yes. So there's a tool that I created (00:35:30) called debits and credits because (00:35:31) everything in my work is super quick and (00:35:33) it's super practical because we haven't (00:35:34) got time to read (00:35:36) >> exactly (00:35:36) >> big tones of books about you know cycle (00:35:39) breaking. So it's like a 10-minute (00:35:41) exercise and I've done all the thousands (00:35:42) of hours of reading to get to this (00:35:45) point. (00:35:46) So you think about debits, okay, which (00:35:48) is what did I experience growing up, you (00:35:51) know, with my mom, my dad, my extended (00:35:53) family, you know, my environment. What (00:35:55) messages did I get? How was I parented (00:35:57) that didn't feel great that actually I (00:36:00) might want to change. That's your debit (00:36:03) list. And then it's really important to (00:36:05) do your credit list, right? which is (00:36:08) what are the things that actually were (00:36:10) incredible that my parents, caregivers, (00:36:13) extended family, teachers, you know, (00:36:15) what were the things that were amazing (00:36:18) and I absolutely consciously want to (00:36:21) repeat and that's why I said at the (00:36:23) start the most important thing is (00:36:24) self-compassion and self-awareness and (00:36:26) both these tools fall into that (00:36:28) self-awareness category because when you (00:36:30) can think about actually I really you (00:36:32) know feelings weren't a thing this is my (00:36:34) example in debits right we never really (00:36:36) talked about feelings As a result, when (00:36:39) I'd gone through my adolescence, I (00:36:40) really didn't know how to connect to my (00:36:42) emotional self. I was very sort of (00:36:45) disconnected from knowing how to just (00:36:48) connect with feelings. I didn't really (00:36:50) understand my own emotional landscape. (00:36:52) So, that went into my debits list (00:36:54) through no fault of my parents. (00:36:55) Absolutely not about blame or (00:36:57) fingerpointing. I get it. It wasn't a (00:37:00) discussion in the 80s about emotional (00:37:01) health. No one was talking about it. And (00:37:04) then on my credits list, I'm think so (00:37:06) on. So once I've got that debit list, (00:37:08) you know, I want to talk about that. (00:37:09) Okay, is there anything that I need to (00:37:11) learn in order to break that cycle? (00:37:13) Okay, I'm going to need to learn a bit (00:37:14) about my own emotional health. How can I (00:37:16) do that? I'm going to listen to these (00:37:17) podcasts. (00:37:18) >> Okay. And what am I going to do with my (00:37:19) children? I'm going to make sure I'm (00:37:20) talking about feelings. When they come (00:37:22) to me with a problem, I'm not going to (00:37:23) fix it or tell them not to cry or be (00:37:25) quiet. I'm going to let them cry. I'm (00:37:27) going to ask them how they might be (00:37:28) feeling. (00:37:30) >> Super simple, but so powerful. Cuz what (00:37:33) you're suddenly doing is that you're (00:37:35) parenting with intention. You're (00:37:36) creating a family with intention and (00:37:39) awareness, not just knee-jerk, of how it (00:37:42) was done to you. (00:37:43) >> Because if we don't do this piece in the (00:37:46) middle, you will just typically do one (00:37:48) of two things called the pendulum (00:37:50) effect. You will go completely the (00:37:52) opposite way of two extremes. (00:37:54) >> Wow. (00:37:55) >> So you you want to be thinking really (00:37:57) consciously, what do I want to repeat? (00:37:59) Because I loved it. My parents were (00:38:00) amazing at this. All the traditions What (00:38:02) traditions do I repeat? You want to do (00:38:04) this with your partner if you have one, (00:38:05) co-parent, other involved caregivers. (00:38:07) And what do we want to do differently? (00:38:09) And this is 10 minutes. I'm not talking (00:38:10) about you people thinking I've got no (00:38:12) time. This woman's mad. This is this is (00:38:15) kind of 10minute exercise. It's not I'll (00:38:18) tell you why. Whilst this activity I I (00:38:20) absolutely love it, by the way. I think (00:38:21) it's amazing. But whilst you're saying (00:38:23) it only takes 10 minutes, what I think (00:38:25) people struggle with is let's say in (00:38:26) this 10 minutes I write down my parents (00:38:29) were really shouty, right? always used (00:38:31) to shout at me and I want to be a gentle (00:38:33) parent. When my child slaps spaghetti in (00:38:36) my face, I want to say, "No, honey, we (00:38:38) don't do that." But I need to go to (00:38:40) therapy to change my ways because right (00:38:43) now what I'm doing is I'm getting (00:38:45) spaghetti and I'm splashing it back in (00:38:46) my kid's face cuz I've grown up with (00:38:48) this temper and this anger. So whilst (00:38:51) the exercise is 10 minutes for (00:38:52) awareness, I think solving the issue (00:38:55) sometimes can take longer, which is what (00:38:56) is scary for moms, right? Cuz sometimes (00:38:58) if you're not aware of it, if you're not (00:39:00) intentional about it, at least you (00:39:01) didn't think about it. (00:39:02) >> Yeah. (00:39:02) >> So at least you weren't intentional. So (00:39:04) you being the same parent that your (00:39:06) parent was being, it wasn't something (00:39:08) that was in your conscious brain. It's (00:39:09) just in your subconscious. (00:39:10) >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you'll know (00:39:13) this. We don't do personal growth (00:39:16) because it's a fun thing to do. I mean, (00:39:18) I think it is a fun thing to do, (00:39:20) >> but most people get to personal growth (00:39:24) because they're fed up of their own (00:39:25) (00:39:26) >> Yes. Exactly. They're like, I need to (00:39:28) change something. So, if that mom is (00:39:30) like, I'm shouting a bit more than I (00:39:31) want to, but actually I can handle it. (00:39:35) >> Amazing. Absolutely fair. There will (00:39:38) maybe that maybe there won't come a (00:39:40) point. Maybe there will come a point (00:39:41) where she goes, "This is I I really need (00:39:44) to look at this." Like, I feel really (00:39:46) And I've come to loads of those moments (00:39:49) in big and small ways in my motherhood (00:39:52) journey where I'm like, I really need to (00:39:53) look at this. Now, sometimes that has (00:39:55) looked like going to therapy. More often (00:39:58) than not, it's looked like coaching (00:39:59) tools. I'm I'm a coach. I'm absolutely (00:40:02) evangelical about the power of of (00:40:04) coaching (00:40:05) >> and co- coaching as well. You know, (00:40:07) sitting with a friend who's also into (00:40:08) personal development. Can we just chat (00:40:10) through this thing? (00:40:11) >> Yes. (00:40:11) >> You know, there's so there's so many (00:40:14) there's so many different ways to work (00:40:16) through this. I'm not saying any of this (00:40:18) is easy, but what I am saying is that (00:40:21) when you get to that point when you're (00:40:22) like, I I don't know what to do. I've (00:40:26) got some tools that can that can help (00:40:28) you. And of course, like we've been (00:40:29) saying the theme of the episode, right? (00:40:31) Correct. Every single person's (00:40:33) experience is going to be difficult (00:40:34) different. Some are going to be more (00:40:36) difficult. Some people, yes, if you've (00:40:38) got significant trauma in your (00:40:40) childhood, of course, a 10-minute (00:40:42) exercise is not going to fix that. That (00:40:44) would be insane to suggest otherwise. (00:40:46) You might need to go to some specialist (00:40:50) therapy, of course, (00:40:52) >> but you're going to be able to get that (00:40:54) self-awareness through through a simple (00:40:57) tool and then make that decision like (00:40:58) how important does this feel right now (00:41:00) for me to (00:41:02) >> look at this or do I need to just push (00:41:04) on? Am I a season where I actually can't (00:41:06) focus on that? (00:41:07) >> And I think change is hard, you know? I (00:41:08) think it's really hard. (00:41:09) >> It's really difficult. And when you do (00:41:12) want to change something like I've had a (00:41:14) terrible childhood and I want to have a (00:41:15) child and I want to change that, we have (00:41:17) to take personal responsibility for that (00:41:19) also. (00:41:20) >> Yeah. (00:41:20) >> Right. Like no one else is going to come (00:41:21) in and tell you, oh this is what you (00:41:23) need to do and I'll just take this load (00:41:24) off you. Unfortunately, it is a choice. (00:41:27) The reason why I wanted to ask you about (00:41:29) these exercises is nearly seven in 10 (00:41:31) millennial moms agree to feel guilty (00:41:33) about taking time out for themselves. (00:41:35) >> Yes. There was amazing study done in (00:41:37) 2014 and they asked you know a (00:41:39) significant number of moms to rank the (00:41:41) importance of things in their life (00:41:43) >> right first was children then was work (00:41:49) then was partner then was pets then was (00:41:52) self. (00:41:54) So the dog or the cat probably gets a (00:41:58) walk and some attention and some food (00:42:02) but the mother puts herself last. And (00:42:04) that's really one of the core messages (00:42:05) of mankind is that we have to break this (00:42:10) narrative that motherhood and to be a (00:42:12) good mother means being a martyr (00:42:15) >> because actually it it it doesn't and we (00:42:18) have to. It's not about me first. It's (00:42:20) not about putting yourself at the top of (00:42:21) the triangle at all times. Of course, (00:42:23) there are moments when we have to put (00:42:24) our children, our work, our partner, our (00:42:26) pet even before us. But if we do that (00:42:28) habitually and unconsciously which is (00:42:31) what we were talking about then you know (00:42:34) that that has a real impact on your (00:42:36) physical health your emotional health (00:42:37) and your and your mental health. So I (00:42:39) think it's about thinking I've got a (00:42:40) tool in the book for women and you know (00:42:42) many mothers in my community really (00:42:45) struggle with this. So, I developed a (00:42:47) tool called um one for me, one for you. (00:42:50) Because what I saw was that it was so (00:42:52) easy for mothers to organize a playd (00:42:55) date for their child, to make sure their (00:42:57) child eats nutritionally balanced meals, (00:42:59) to have a glass of water, to have some (00:43:01) play, to have some stimulation, to have (00:43:02) some fun. The list is endless. So, (00:43:05) instead of trying to think about what do (00:43:06) I need to do, I thought about this tool, (00:43:08) which was one for me, one for you. So, (00:43:10) as you give your child a fresh glass of (00:43:12) water cuz you realize they're thirsty, (00:43:14) drink one for yourself. This sounds (00:43:16) basic. (00:43:17) >> So many mothers are completely (00:43:19) dehydrated because they'll rush through (00:43:20) the day. As you make your child a fresh (00:43:23) balanced meal or whatever you're doing, (00:43:24) microwaving something, whatever you are (00:43:26) doing to feed your child, make sure that (00:43:28) you are also feeding yourself. As you (00:43:30) organize a play date for your children, (00:43:32) maybe you could organize to meet your (00:43:33) friends in a couple of weeks, a coffee (00:43:35) date for you. As you organize for them (00:43:37) to have some play, maybe think about (00:43:38) what could I do? What does my play mean (00:43:41) now in that 10 minutes that I've got? (00:43:43) You know, do I want to sit and do a (00:43:44) little bit of drawing? I always love (00:43:45) that or whatever it might be. So, one (00:43:48) for me, one for you is a really (00:43:50) practical way to start to push ourselves (00:43:53) up. (00:43:54) >> Yes. That triangle. And I think so much (00:43:56) of why we habitually do this comes down (00:44:00) to I mean there's so many reasons, but (00:44:02) essentially I think a lot of us have (00:44:03) absorbed this idea of the selfless (00:44:05) mother that we we become a mother and (00:44:08) you know we put ourselves last that (00:44:11) everyone is more important than than us. (00:44:13) And also I think you know practically it (00:44:16) can feel like that because our demands (00:44:19) feel the easiest to push aside. Children (00:44:22) are screaming for dinner. You're not (00:44:23) going to ignore them. You know your boss (00:44:25) is kicking off on Slack about something (00:44:27) that you need. It's really difficult to (00:44:29) ignore that. Your partner is saying to (00:44:30) you, "I don't see enough of you. I need (00:44:32) to see you. What are you doing?" (00:44:34) Difficult to ignore that. The easiest (00:44:35) person to ignore (00:44:37) >> is (00:44:37) >> yourself. So it really connects with (00:44:39) selfworth as well and selfrespect. And (00:44:41) it's really hard, but you have to (00:44:44) encourage yourself to think, I really (00:44:47) want to model (00:44:49) that motherhood doesn't mean martyrdom. (00:44:52) >> Motherhood can mean that we all get our (00:44:55) needs met. It's okay for me to book an (00:44:58) extra bit of child care, to go and do (00:45:00) something that isn't work related. It's (00:45:02) okay for me to have a night off, to (00:45:05) leave some of the jobs, to ask for help. (00:45:08) It's okay for me to do that because (00:45:10) actually that is how I am going to be (00:45:12) the best woman, mother, businesswoman, (00:45:16) partner, all the roles that we we play. (00:45:18) We're at the center of all of those (00:45:20) roles. So, it's definitely a shift. It's (00:45:23) a challenge as that stat shows for many (00:45:25) of us. But in the book, I really try and (00:45:27) be super practical. Yes. (00:45:29) >> I don't just say, "Well, you need to (00:45:31) look after your needs, too." What does (00:45:32) that even mean? I get people to think (00:45:34) about another tool called minimum viable (00:45:36) needs. Okay, (00:45:37) >> which I got from the business world, (00:45:38) right? I borrowed minimum viable product (00:45:40) which is like what's the easiest (00:45:42) quickest way we can do this minimum (00:45:43) viable needs. So you might need eight (00:45:45) hours sleep that might be your need. You (00:45:47) might need to reset but that's not (00:45:48) possible. How could you get something (00:45:51) the minimum viable? How could you get an (00:45:53) extra hour? (00:45:54) >> Wow. (00:45:54) >> What would that look like? So I think we (00:45:56) have to we have to have this sort of (00:45:58) philosophy of mother kind and h how I (00:46:01) really think that mothers can support (00:46:03) themselves through motherhood which is (00:46:05) looking after their needs too. But we (00:46:06) also have to make it super practical and (00:46:09) realistic because the reality is you (00:46:11) know mothers have less than an hour to (00:46:12) themselves (00:46:13) >> a day from studies (00:46:16) >> as as you're talking about this the term (00:46:19) that comes to me is superm mom (00:46:21) >> and why have I not heard this term super (00:46:22) dad? Why do I never hear people being (00:46:24) like you're such a super dad that you're (00:46:26) doing it? Because they I mean I mean I (00:46:27) don't want to speak on behalf of all (00:46:28) men, but I just hear the term (00:46:30) >> supermom a lot more. And the reason why (00:46:33) I think this is because we are wired to (00:46:35) believe that we can do multiple things. (00:46:37) >> Women can do like women are (00:46:39) multitaskers, men are not. Women can do (00:46:41) the cooking and the cleaning. Like for (00:46:42) example, when I'm at home, there are (00:46:44) times I'm on the phone, I'm also writing (00:46:47) an email, and I'm chopping the carrots (00:46:49) at the same time. And Nichl comes in and (00:46:51) he's like, "What's wrong with you?" And (00:46:53) I'm like, "What do you mean? I've got a (00:46:55) million things to do. I've got to get (00:46:56) things done." (00:46:56) >> Yeah. (00:46:57) >> Right. We've got this obsession with (00:46:58) doing multiple things at the same time. (00:47:00) But I do think it's because we're taught (00:47:02) that. We're taught that you can be a (00:47:04) multitasker. We're taught that you can (00:47:05) do multiple things. And we're also (00:47:07) expected to think about the multiple (00:47:09) things. (00:47:10) >> Yeah. So that's that's called the mental (00:47:12) >> the mental load. Well, you've got this (00:47:14) thing in this book which I really (00:47:16) actually loved if I'm honest and it's (00:47:17) basically the mother kind toolkit (00:47:19) identifying the pressure source. Now, I (00:47:22) I really love this because what you've (00:47:23) said is one is no pressure at all, five (00:47:25) is healthy pressure that feels good to (00:47:26) you, which I like, and 10 is extreme (00:47:29) pressure. But what you've written here (00:47:30) is having a tidy organized home, food (00:47:32) and meal times, work success, financial (00:47:34) security, education and schooling, (00:47:36) health and fitness, self-development and (00:47:38) cycle breaking, maintaining friendships, (00:47:40) maintaining family relationships, (00:47:41) managing the mental load, materialism, (00:47:44) opportunities, advocating for your (00:47:46) child's needs, raising happy children, (00:47:47) keeping your children safe, other other (00:47:50) >> I mean there could be 50 more others. (00:47:52) Yeah, (00:47:53) >> it's crazy. (00:47:54) >> Yeah. And you know the other thing that (00:47:56) you that I mean this comes under (00:47:57) maintaining family relationships. Why is (00:47:59) it on the woman to always remember the (00:48:01) family's birthdays and get them a (00:48:02) present and get them a card and when (00:48:04) they don't it's always like well she (00:48:06) doesn't like us. She obviously hasn't (00:48:08) made the effort with us. She's a (00:48:09) terrible daughter-in-law. She's a (00:48:10) terrible wife. She's a terrible cousin. (00:48:13) Yeah. There's a phrase for that called (00:48:14) kinkeeping which is the idea that women (00:48:19) have typically taken this role of (00:48:20) holding those communities and families (00:48:23) together. And I think when you do that (00:48:25) exercise with your husband which is you (00:48:28) know how we going to do this that's one (00:48:29) of the things to think about you know (00:48:30) are you how are we going to manage our (00:48:32) family relationships through this are (00:48:34) you going to be responsible for the (00:48:36) relationship with our child with your (00:48:38) family okay so that means you're going (00:48:39) to be organizing the visits you're going (00:48:41) to be suggesting what they might like to (00:48:43) buy or do with the child are you going (00:48:45) to be buying presents for your (00:48:47) >> family you know get all this out on the (00:48:49) table that's absolutely the sort of (00:48:51) thing that you want to be (00:48:52) >> to be discussing and and that exercise (00:48:54) is so powerful. I absolutely love it too (00:48:57) because I think once we're clear about (00:48:59) where is that pressure coming from then (00:49:01) we can get more intentional about our (00:49:03) choices because otherwise the world will (00:49:06) tell us we have to do all those things (00:49:08) perfectly. (00:49:09) >> Yes. (00:49:10) >> And you can't you really have to to to (00:49:12) make some choices. Okay, my number one (00:49:14) priority in raising my children is X. (00:49:16) I'm going to have to dep prioritize. I (00:49:18) can't do these things perfectly then. (00:49:21) I'm just going to have to do those at 60 (00:49:23) 70%. And you know, organizations have (00:49:25) known this forever. It's called (00:49:26) constraints theory, right? Where you (00:49:28) have constraints on your time and your (00:49:30) budget and your people and you have to (00:49:31) make strategic choices. That is how (00:49:33) businesses are run. Well, we can think (00:49:35) about our homes and parenthood and (00:49:36) motherhood in exactly the same way. I (00:49:39) borrowed a lot from the from the (00:49:41) business world when I wrote this because (00:49:43) because you know those limits on time (00:49:45) and energy and resources is correct (00:49:48) >> so well known in that world. I think we (00:49:49) just have this model in motherhood, (00:49:52) particularly modern motherhood, that we (00:49:53) can just do it all and be it all and (00:49:56) have it all and take all the pressure (00:49:57) and juggle all the plates. (00:49:59) >> Absolutely. Absolutely not. And just (00:50:01) like businesses know, you know, it's (00:50:03) that focus that moves the needle. (00:50:05) >> So if you know, you know, I really want (00:50:06) to focus on X with my children or Y in (00:50:09) my home or zed with my partner, (00:50:11) >> you know, you focus on those key things, (00:50:14) >> take the pressure off the other things. (00:50:15) Is it difficult? Really difficult. Well, (00:50:18) you have to fight against some societal (00:50:20) internal and external expectations. Of (00:50:22) course, you will. Yes. (00:50:23) >> But it's difficult to to thrive through (00:50:25) anything, right? So true. (00:50:27) >> I think it's definitely worth, you know, (00:50:30) I'd really encourage people to to grab a (00:50:32) copy and do that exercise or if you (00:50:33) don't want to buy the book, just, you (00:50:34) know, write down where am I putting (00:50:36) myself under the most amount of pressure (00:50:38) and why does it work for me or not? (00:50:40) >> Once you've got that exercise and in (00:50:42) order to support this exercise, you need (00:50:44) to learn to ask for help. (00:50:45) >> Yes. which is something that a lot of (00:50:47) people struggle with. (00:50:47) >> Yes. (00:50:48) >> Asking for help can come with (00:50:53) conditions. (00:50:54) >> Yes. (00:50:55) >> A lot of difficulty that people have is (00:50:57) they'll leave their children with their (00:50:58) parents. So the children's grandparents, (00:51:00) but they're full scared to tell them (00:51:02) that their boundaries are X, Y, and Zed. (00:51:04) >> Yeah. (00:51:04) >> Right. So they're scared to say because (00:51:07) their parents are the only source of (00:51:09) child care that they have. (00:51:10) >> Yeah. What advice would you give to (00:51:12) someone who is worried around their (00:51:14) parent being very explosive or not (00:51:17) reacting well to the boundaries that (00:51:19) they want to set because they did not (00:51:22) set that boundary (00:51:23) >> with their parent. Does that make sense? (00:51:25) >> Yes, it makes a lot of sense. And what (00:51:26) you've touched on is one of the in my (00:51:29) experience one of the most complex (00:51:31) things to navigate is that (00:51:33) multi-generational (00:51:36) how is this going to work? Because just (00:51:37) in that you've never met your mother (00:51:39) self, your your mother has never seen (00:51:41) you as a mother, right? So it brings up (00:51:44) an awful amount of joy in lots of (00:51:47) people's experiences and also a lot of (00:51:49) pain and conflict. So I think the most (00:51:53) important thing with your boundaries and (00:51:54) once you've sort of figured out with (00:51:56) your partner or co-parent or however (00:51:57) you're raising your family or your child (00:51:59) is to think about (00:52:01) what are my absolute non-negotiables? (00:52:04) absolute non-negotiables (00:52:07) and every single person will have a (00:52:10) different list. Some people might not (00:52:11) have anything in that list. They might (00:52:13) be like, "Do you know what? There's (00:52:14) nothing that I feel that passionately (00:52:17) about." (00:52:17) >> Right? (00:52:18) >> Very common one might be um watching (00:52:21) YouTube. I don't want my child to watch (00:52:22) YouTube before 2. Okay, that might be a (00:52:24) really common non-negotiable that I hear (00:52:27) about or the TV or you know, I don't (00:52:29) want them picking up a phone before (00:52:30) that, too. This is in my non-negotiable (00:52:32) column. I feel incredibly passionate (00:52:35) about it. I've done lots of research or (00:52:37) I just I know I know then my partner and (00:52:39) I on the same page. This is something we (00:52:41) do not want to happen. If you then have (00:52:43) your grandparents as your child care (00:52:45) option, you're going to have to have a (00:52:46) conversation with them about that. That (00:52:49) doesn't mean walking in and saying we've (00:52:52) got our boundaries. Never use the word (00:52:54) boundary when you are setting a boundary (00:52:56) by the way ever. It's extremely (00:52:59) triggering. It feels superior. It's kind (00:53:01) of therapeutic speak. Never use the word (00:53:03) boundary. You want to think about how (00:53:05) can you communicate that in a way that (00:53:07) feels really compassionate and (00:53:08) understanding to the people rightly so (00:53:11) that are going to be looking after your (00:53:14) >> child. So it might look like something (00:53:16) like hey we've done a lot of research (00:53:18) the the impact on brain development (00:53:21) whatever it is blah blah blah blah blah (00:53:23) we've decided we don't want our child to (00:53:25) be looking at a screen before they're (00:53:27) >> so it's like you're so or high mighty (00:53:29) you looked at a screen before you were (00:53:30) two (00:53:31) >> yeah you could say yeah I did but (00:53:32) actually you know that was however many (00:53:35) years ago 30 years ago and you know (00:53:37) we've got a lot more research now would (00:53:38) you like to have a look at the research (00:53:40) you know you could you can you can (00:53:42) >> just role playing with you here (00:53:43) >> yeah So, you know, then you can say, (00:53:45) "So, what we'd love is that while (00:53:47) they're in your care, while they're in (00:53:48) our care, they're not having any screen. (00:53:49) While they're in your care, not having (00:53:50) any screen, but here are some things, (00:53:52) and you might want to bring some (00:53:54) activities. You know, they'll happily (00:53:55) sit and play with this for some time. (00:53:58) Here it is." What if they say, "So, (00:53:59) you're telling me (00:54:00) >> that when you go to work, you're (00:54:02) dropping your kid off at my house and I (00:54:05) can't watch my Good Morning Britain (00:54:07) whilst drinking my cup of tea in the (00:54:09) morning because I've got to look after (00:54:10) your kid cuz you've got to go to work." (00:54:11) So now what you're doing actually is (00:54:12) controlling my life. Not only are you (00:54:14) setting like telling me that you don't (00:54:16) want your kid to watch TV, fine, (00:54:17) whatever that's in your house. But when (00:54:19) if you want them to come and stay with (00:54:20) me, I want to have my morning cup of tea (00:54:22) and watch TV. (00:54:23) >> Yeah. And this is this is really common. (00:54:26) What will what will come up? And that's (00:54:27) where you had to decide how (00:54:29) non-negotiable is this for you. And are (00:54:31) there shades of negotiability? That's (00:54:34) not even a word, but (00:54:35) >> difficult, isn't it? (00:54:36) >> That's what that's what being a parent (00:54:37) is. Being a parent is about deciding (00:54:41) what are my values, my rules, my (00:54:43) boundaries. This is what you have to do (00:54:44) with your children, by the way. It's no (00:54:46) different than a teenager saying, "I (00:54:47) want a phone." You know, it's the same. (00:54:49) This is what happens as a parent. You (00:54:51) take the heat. (00:54:52) >> So, you need to decide, okay, well, if (00:54:55) you can't get on board with that rule, (00:54:56) we're going to have to figure out other (00:54:57) child care options. Absolutely. We can (00:54:59) have family visits. We can have really, (00:55:01) but we're not going to drop them off if (00:55:03) I can't be clear that you're going to (00:55:04) stick to that rule or not because you're (00:55:07) the parent. You get to decide what that (00:55:10) rule is. And of course, it's so nuanced (00:55:12) depending on that relationship. If (00:55:14) someone is going to react like that, I (00:55:16) suspect there'd be a lot of a lot of (00:55:18) other instances in that relationship (00:55:20) where those boundaries have been (00:55:21) crossed, ignored, disrespected. So, that (00:55:23) might be something part of your cycle (00:55:25) breaking, right? I want to, you know, (00:55:27) stand up for myself here. (00:55:29) I'm the parent now. (00:55:30) >> I've got an interesting one I want to (00:55:32) challenge you on. Okay. (00:55:32) >> Yeah. (00:55:33) >> I'm vegetarian. (00:55:34) >> Yeah. (00:55:34) >> My non-negotiable was that I want to (00:55:36) raise my children vegetarian. That is my (00:55:38) non-negotiable. Okay. (00:55:39) >> Right. (00:55:41) >> My family seem to think that I'm being (00:55:44) too restrictive. (00:55:45) >> Even though I grew up vegetarian. (00:55:48) >> Okay. (00:55:48) >> Right. It's bizarre this one. My dad (00:55:51) eats meat. My brother eats meat. My (00:55:52) husband eats meat. (00:55:53) >> Yeah. (00:55:54) >> Me and my mom don't eat meat. (00:55:55) >> Are you and your husband agreed on the (00:55:56) vegetarian? (00:55:57) >> Yeah. I said I wouldn't marry him if if (00:55:59) that was the case. (00:56:00) >> Okay, nice. (00:56:00) >> No, but it was very important to me. I (00:56:02) was like, I really don't real (00:56:05) important that I don't think I really (00:56:06) don't want my children to grow up eating (00:56:08) me. And then when they get to 10 or 11 (00:56:10) and I think they're in right like right (00:56:11) mind, they can then decide, (00:56:13) >> right? But I want them to grow up with (00:56:14) those values where they say, "I don't (00:56:16) want to eat me." That's just my personal (00:56:17) choice. (00:56:18) >> My dad then said to me, "So when they (00:56:20) come over here and let's say you have a (00:56:23) boy, yeah, here we go. Sexism in its (00:56:25) finest. I mean, Ashray, my brother, are (00:56:27) eating chicken wings. What do you want (00:56:29) me to tell them? (00:56:29) >> Mhm. (00:56:30) >> What did you say? (00:56:31) >> Well, I said, I don't bloody know yet (00:56:32) cuz I have kids, but I would presume (00:56:34) that you say to them, "It's spicy." I (00:56:36) don't know if that's the right answer. (00:56:37) Okay. (00:56:37) >> Just say it's spicy cuz then if it's (00:56:39) spicy, they can't eat it. (00:56:40) >> Yeah. (00:56:40) >> And then my dad goes, "All right, what (00:56:42) if I'm eating?" And he just gave me all (00:56:44) these stupid examples. And his basically (00:56:46) his theory was, "What are you going to (00:56:47) teach your children?" And I said, "I (00:56:48) don't want them to grow up with the (00:56:49) values that it's normal to kill an (00:56:50) animal to eat." That's just my personal (00:56:52) opinion. (00:56:53) >> Yeah. And my dad said, "So are you going (00:56:55) to tell them that I'm a bad person (00:56:56) then?" (00:56:57) >> No, that's (00:56:58) >> And I said, "What? Why would he go?" (00:57:00) Well, I'm eating meat, so am I bad then (00:57:02) for eating meat? I said in my personal (00:57:03) opinion, "Yeah, you are." But I I just (00:57:05) think that the I was like, "You don't (00:57:07) need to tell the kids that you're eating (00:57:08) meat. You can just eat different (00:57:09) things." Anyway, we got very flustered (00:57:11) because his concern was that I will be (00:57:14) teaching my children that eating meat is (00:57:16) bad. Yeah. (00:57:17) >> And and he feels that they will then see (00:57:19) him as bad. I'm not pregnant. I don't (00:57:22) have a child. But do you see how I'm (00:57:23) already having these conversations? (00:57:24) >> I think that's good you're having these (00:57:25) conversations because if this came up in (00:57:27) the moment, this would be really tricky (00:57:30) because you're stood there with your (00:57:30) child and you're like, what do I do? So, (00:57:32) it's great that you're thinking about it (00:57:34) beforehand. And I actually think this is (00:57:35) like an amazing opportunity to teach a (00:57:39) to stand up for what you believe and (00:57:41) this is your non-negotiable, right? So, (00:57:43) that's very clear. It's also an (00:57:45) opportunity to teach your children that (00:57:48) you know a saying that I have in my (00:57:49) house is every family and every person (00:57:52) has different rules and we respect (00:57:53) different rules but these are the rules (00:57:54) in our home. (00:57:55) >> Yeah. (00:57:56) >> So in our family (00:57:57) >> you know mom dad mommy daddy me or (00:58:00) siblings whatever we choose we don't eat (00:58:03) meat other families do eat meat. It's (00:58:05) not wrong it's not wrong to eat meat. My (00:58:07) my choice is that that we don't other (00:58:11) people choose that they do just like we (00:58:14) what it might be you know we look at (00:58:16) screens other families don't look at (00:58:18) screens you give them examples and you (00:58:19) can start to teach them them about (00:58:21) compassion about understanding different (00:58:24) points of view I talk about this all the (00:58:25) time with my children why is so and so (00:58:28) allowed to do X why can't I do Y or so (00:58:30) so and so's mommy said that it's fine to (00:58:32) do this you say it's not fine to do that (00:58:34) it's such an amazing moment I love it (00:58:36) when they come to me with something like (00:58:38) that because it's like I get to teach (00:58:39) them. I get to help them be (00:58:41) compassionate and empathetic and (00:58:43) understanding. And we are growing up, (00:58:45) they are growing up in such a divisive (00:58:47) world. We get a chance in our little (00:58:50) microcosm family to teach the opposite (00:58:52) of that, to teach understanding, to (00:58:54) teach compassion. And my daughter now (00:58:56) says it back to me. She'll be like, "Oh, (00:58:58) that mommy's not doing what you would (00:58:59) do. (00:59:00) >> I bet she dot dot dot." and she'll make (00:59:02) up a story about, you know, I bet that (00:59:04) that's that's her value mommy or that's (00:59:06) whatever it is. (00:59:07) >> But how do you me talk about that for (00:59:09) forever? (00:59:09) >> How do I say though my husband eats meat (00:59:11) though? (00:59:12) >> Yeah, you can say every individual has a (00:59:16) different choice. Mommy mommy doesn't (00:59:18) eat meat and mommy and daddy have (00:59:19) agreed. (00:59:20) >> Yeah. Well, we don't eat meat in the (00:59:21) house. So, (00:59:21) >> okay, fine. Mommy and daddy have agreed (00:59:23) that you two are not going to eat meat (00:59:25) until you're until you're 10 and then (00:59:27) you get to make a choice. We have agreed (00:59:29) that. (00:59:30) >> True. That's just rules. Every family (00:59:32) has rules. If you if you don't have (00:59:34) rules in your family, (00:59:36) >> what are you doing? Like, you know, you (00:59:37) need to have rules. That's what keeps (00:59:40) children feeling safe actually is (00:59:42) knowing where the boundaries are, (00:59:43) knowing where the rules are. (00:59:44) >> One of the questions my audience asked (00:59:46) me because I asked them that about you (00:59:48) because I was interviewing you. (00:59:49) >> Yeah. (00:59:50) >> They said to me, it's very difficult (00:59:52) when you want to change but your parents (00:59:54) don't want to change. Right. So in (00:59:57) Indian culture you have something called (00:59:59) a chuty which is on the sixth day after (01:00:02) you give birth there is a ceremony (01:00:05) >> right? (01:00:06) >> Yeah. (01:00:06) >> A lot of women I know have opted to not (01:00:10) do that ceremony. (01:00:11) >> Yes. Makes sense. (01:00:13) >> And a lot of women I know have done the (01:00:15) ceremony 6 days after having a cesarian (01:00:17) section or pushing a baby out which both (01:00:20) of them just blow my mind. You know it's (01:00:22) just crazy to me. And also, it's not (01:00:24) just like five people there, FYI. (01:00:27) There's like 50, (01:00:28) >> right? Wow. (01:00:29) >> You're in an Indian outfit. I look at (01:00:31) the pictures of my Chuty with my mom. (01:00:32) It's in her bedroom. She's in a full-on (01:00:35) Indian outfit. But (01:00:35) >> is she in Is she in bed? (01:00:37) >> She's not in bed. No, no, no. You're (01:00:38) dressed up. It's like It's like how I (01:00:40) would look today, but with an Indian (01:00:42) outfit on like a wedding. It's not a (01:00:43) wedding. Sorry, I don't mean to say. (01:00:45) Like, it's not a wedding, but it's (01:00:46) You're dressed up basically (01:00:47) >> and you do the ceremony. for somebody (01:00:50) who feels like they don't want to let go (01:00:52) of their tradition. Yeah. (01:00:54) >> Because you'll never get the chance to (01:00:55) do that ever again. By the way, it's the (01:00:56) sixth day. You'll never get a chance to (01:00:57) do it. I think it's actually like (01:00:59) there's a significant reason why it's on (01:01:00) the sixth day. (01:01:01) >> Yeah. (01:01:02) >> For somebody who feels that they don't (01:01:03) want to let go of their tradition. (01:01:05) >> Yes. Yes. But but for somebody who feels (01:01:06) that they want to also honor themselves (01:01:10) and give themselves the time to heal, a (01:01:12) lot of the time we're in that conflict. (01:01:14) You know, I find myself in the conflict (01:01:16) all the time thinking, well, this is my (01:01:18) traditional role, but this is how I (01:01:19) really feel about her. What do I do? (01:01:21) >> So, if there's a mother at home who's in (01:01:23) this position right now who feels like (01:01:25) her parents want her to do the ceremony, (01:01:27) >> they don't understand why she doesn't (01:01:29) want to do it because they did it. (01:01:30) >> Their mothers did it, their sisters did (01:01:32) it, they themselves did it. How do they (01:01:34) approach that conversation with their (01:01:36) parent to say, "Listen, I respect the (01:01:38) tradition, but I also don't feel like (01:01:40) it's right for me." (01:01:41) >> Well, just just like that. I think I (01:01:43) think the first thing is you have to (01:01:44) think about what does feel right for me. (01:01:48) Is it that, you know, we do it on the (01:01:50) sixth day, but we do it with just close (01:01:52) family. Maybe there's 10 people. I don't (01:01:54) I don't understand. This isn't my (01:01:56) culture, right? So these are just some (01:01:58) of the things that possible I would be (01:02:00) encouraging someone to think about and (01:02:02) to coach through is what would feel good (01:02:06) for me. That's where to start. That (01:02:08) doesn't mean that's going to be end up (01:02:09) what you're going to do because of (01:02:11) course culture family all has will yeah (01:02:15) all will have an impact on what you do. (01:02:16) We're not selfish. We don't think I'm (01:02:18) going to do this and that's that and sod (01:02:20) the rest of you. Absolutely not. It's (01:02:21) more thinking about what would feel good (01:02:23) for me. (01:02:24) >> Okay. and how do I work from how do I (01:02:26) work from there? What are the (01:02:28) possibilities? But I think you know I I (01:02:31) don't know the culture. I don't know how (01:02:34) kind of important and significant a (01:02:36) thing that might be to change it to have (01:02:38) less people to do it on a different day (01:02:40) to do it differently to get the essence (01:02:42) of that ceremony in a new or different (01:02:45) >> way because traditions (01:02:47) >> you know they they they change don't (01:02:49) they through the generations. So I I (01:02:50) really have no idea, but that's what I (01:02:52) would be encouraging someone to think (01:02:53) about is what would feel good for me and (01:02:57) how can I, you know, yes, respect and (01:03:00) yes, honor that tradition, but also make (01:03:03) sure that I don't put myself in a (01:03:04) position where I'm feeling kind of (01:03:07) completely disconnected from what I (01:03:09) wanted. (01:03:10) >> I think it's difficult because it takes (01:03:12) a village to raise a kid, but then (01:03:14) people in villages also have different (01:03:16) opinions. (01:03:17) >> Yes. And it can be really challenging if (01:03:19) you are relying on that village to not (01:03:22) feel as if you have to rely on their (01:03:24) opinions cuz for a lot of the time when (01:03:27) you're asking somebody to look after (01:03:28) your child, you feel like you have to (01:03:30) listen to them. You feel like you have (01:03:31) to take what they say as gospel and that (01:03:33) can be really challenging (01:03:35) >> as a mother because now you feel they (01:03:38) owe you one. (01:03:39) >> Yeah. And I think this is the part of (01:03:41) that non-negoti is back to that (01:03:43) non-negotiables. have to know like your (01:03:45) example is a brilliant one you know what (01:03:48) are my non-negotiables and what are my (01:03:51) negotiables like where am I like that's (01:03:53) fine actually the benefit of having this (01:03:56) village (01:03:57) >> outweighs how I feel about this thing (01:03:59) there'll be lots (01:04:00) >> you have to give in to some stuff you (01:04:02) can't have everything your way you can't (01:04:04) you can't (01:04:04) >> of course you can't that's not real life (01:04:06) >> it's so true (01:04:07) >> you know we're we're we're (01:04:08) interconnected we are meant to live in (01:04:10) community that's why we you know that's (01:04:12) why we we have compromise And we have, (01:04:14) you know, all these amazing other skills (01:04:16) that we get to use. But I think once you (01:04:18) know what are your non-negotiables, you (01:04:19) can then work, you can work from there. (01:04:21) >> In-laws are a big question that people (01:04:23) ask me about. (01:04:24) >> Yep. (01:04:25) >> And they can be a lot of the time quite (01:04:28) what's the word disruptive (01:04:30) >> when it comes to having kids because (01:04:33) they have their own opinions and they're (01:04:35) set. One mother wanted me to ask you, (01:04:37) "How do I deal with my mother-in-law who (01:04:39) refuses to listen to how I feel about a (01:04:41) situation and keep saying,"Well, I (01:04:44) raised my son just fine." (01:04:46) >> Yeah. So, I've actually got a tool in (01:04:48) the book for this because it is so (01:04:51) common. (01:04:52) >> The the number one thing is to get on (01:04:55) the page with your partner because (01:04:57) ultimately it's your partner's parents, (01:04:59) right? It's not it's not your parents. (01:05:02) So that is the most important thing (01:05:05) >> that you and your partner are aligned on (01:05:08) the issue. And if you're not aligned on (01:05:09) the issue, do not take it to the in-laws (01:05:11) because then it's just going to seem (01:05:12) like, you know, well, it it's just going (01:05:15) to seem so misaligned. It's going to be (01:05:18) really difficult for you to feel like (01:05:20) you're in a partnership and on a team. (01:05:22) And there's a there's a tool in the book (01:05:23) where it asks you to rank how important (01:05:26) this is, your partner to rank how (01:05:27) important this is, and you start to work (01:05:29) out, okay, this is really important to (01:05:31) them. (01:05:32) >> Yes. (01:05:32) >> Really important to their family. Is (01:05:34) this going to be one of those things I'm (01:05:35) going to have to compromise on? Or is (01:05:37) this really important to me? And (01:05:39) actually, it's not as important to them. (01:05:41) We're going to have to get on the same (01:05:42) page and do exactly what we talked about (01:05:44) with the vegetarianism. (01:05:46) >> Yes. (01:05:46) >> Work this through with the in-laws. But (01:05:49) these kind of challenges, they come up (01:05:52) constantly. I mean (01:05:54) >> in different variations, right? You (01:05:56) might be lucky and you might have (01:05:56) in-laws. I'm super lucky with mine. You (01:05:59) know, we we we raised our children very (01:06:01) very differently, but my mother-in-law (01:06:03) completely respects, you know, how how (01:06:06) we do it and I respect, you know, how (01:06:08) she did it with my with my husband. So, (01:06:10) I think you can be super lucky and get (01:06:12) that situation and all shades thereof. I (01:06:15) think the number one thing is to be on (01:06:17) the same page as your partner. (01:06:19) >> I don't think that's the issue. I think (01:06:21) for a lot of people, they're on the same (01:06:23) page. (01:06:23) >> It's just that their husband has never (01:06:25) set a boundary with their parents. (01:06:27) >> Well, that's why that's that's the (01:06:29) exactly it. That's that's the tool in (01:06:31) the book that I'm talking about is that (01:06:32) you decide, you know, how important is (01:06:34) this issue? And if it's super important, (01:06:36) you're that is a big challenge in your (01:06:38) partnership or your marriage where (01:06:39) you're going to have to act as if this (01:06:42) actually isn't important to me, but it's (01:06:43) very important to my partner. (01:06:45) >> Yes. (01:06:45) >> So, I am going to have to (01:06:48) >> set this boundary. And you either want (01:06:50) your partner to set that with his or her (01:06:52) parents. (01:06:54) >> It's not your job. You shouldn't be sent (01:06:56) out to go and set that boundary because (01:06:58) you are a team and it is (01:07:00) >> their parents. But, you know, giving (01:07:02) this advice is difficult because (01:07:04) >> every situation is difficult. There's so (01:07:05) many nuances. But my my sort of general (01:07:08) advice would be to to to make sure that (01:07:10) you and your partner are on the same the (01:07:12) same page and that you understand how (01:07:14) important this issue is. (01:07:16) >> Yes. Because if you don't know that, if (01:07:18) it's tiny and you just want to go to war (01:07:21) over it, I'm not sure that's the best (01:07:23) that's the best strategy. And think (01:07:24) about how you communicate that. Always (01:07:26) communicate a boundary when emotions are (01:07:28) really low. (01:07:29) Never communicate a boundary or a limit (01:07:31) in the heat of an argument. Always think (01:07:33) about what can I compromise here. You (01:07:36) need to be very clear. This all in the (01:07:38) book the sort of six the three C's of (01:07:40) boundary setting and think about is (01:07:42) there a compromise here? What would I be (01:07:43) willing to compromise? What wouldn't I (01:07:44) be willing to compromise? (01:07:46) >> I think it's really important here as (01:07:47) well to understand that it's that we (01:07:49) have to share the emotional load. (01:07:50) >> Yes. And a lot of people do struggle (01:07:52) with that because if we think about the (01:07:54) things that women have to do a lot of (01:07:57) the time it's not just the physical load (01:07:58) that falls on them. It's also the (01:08:00) emotional hole. (01:08:01) >> 100%. (01:08:02) >> How can they ask their partner for more (01:08:04) help? Cuz a lot of people are not in (01:08:06) relationships where they can say to (01:08:08) their partner, "Hey, can you help me (01:08:09) around the house?" Because their partner (01:08:10) will turn around and say to them, "I pay (01:08:12) for everything. I've got to go to work." (01:08:15) We I think we look at roles very very (01:08:17) simply. Some people do. I'll go to work (01:08:19) and I'll fend for our family. You stay (01:08:21) at home and look after the family. Which (01:08:23) means when I come home, the food should (01:08:25) be ready. The cleaning should be done. (01:08:28) Everything I need to go out and make a (01:08:30) wage to support our family should be (01:08:33) done. So, a lot of women struggle to (01:08:34) actually say to their partner, "Hey, I (01:08:37) need some help here." And do you think (01:08:40) it's fair for them to ask for help if (01:08:42) their partner is making all the money (01:08:44) and going out to work for them? (01:08:46) >> Yes. because because we've undervalued (01:08:49) caregiving, right? So, there was an (01:08:51) unbelievable study done (01:08:54) about 5 years ago that showed that the (01:08:56) cost of being a full-time parent, it's (01:08:58) not gendered, (01:08:59) >> is that the salary would be equivalent (01:09:01) to about £186,000 (01:09:05) a year if you add it up. Yeah. Because (01:09:07) you think about it, how much is a nanny (01:09:09) a year? How much is a chef a year? How (01:09:10) much is a taxi driver? How much is a (01:09:12) full-time cleaner? How much is a (01:09:13) full-time person doing the ironing, the (01:09:16) laundry, the admin, the personal admin, (01:09:18) personal PA work? You know, it all adds (01:09:20) up these hours and hours and hours and (01:09:22) hours. (01:09:22) >> True. (01:09:23) >> So, that's the first thing is that we (01:09:25) have massive de massively devalued (01:09:28) caregiving. Now, if you're in a what now (01:09:30) in these days in 2025 is quite a (01:09:32) traditional setup, right? Where you (01:09:34) know, one partner, let's call it let's (01:09:36) call it the father because we're talking (01:09:37) about this sort of traditional divide, (01:09:39) is going out and earning the money and (01:09:40) the and the mother is is staying home. (01:09:42) Those are their jobs, correct? Those are (01:09:44) their jobs. So when that person comes (01:09:46) home from their paid work (01:09:48) >> and this person has finished their paid (01:09:50) work, think about it in that way. It (01:09:52) then becomes shared work. And that's (01:09:54) where it's really important to think (01:09:55) about and have these conversations up (01:09:58) front. (01:09:59) >> Wait, hold on. What? Why does it become (01:10:00) shared work? I lost you there. Because (01:10:03) if we think about that person is going (01:10:05) out let's say from 9 to 5 to keep it (01:10:08) simple and they're the money that they (01:10:10) are earning is monetary physical money (01:10:14) that enables the household to keep (01:10:16) running. Between 9 and five this person (01:10:19) is keeping the household running. Also (01:10:22) has a a cost. It's just not salaried. (01:10:25) It's invisible free caregiving labor. (01:10:29) You went out for a coffee with your (01:10:30) friend while the kid was at soft (01:10:33) playing. You had a coffee. I didn't. (01:10:34) >> I think if you if you are in a (01:10:36) relationship where you are getting that (01:10:38) nitpicky with time, (01:10:40) >> then I think you've got a you've got (01:10:42) you've got a relationship problem. You (01:10:44) haven't got a how are we dividing up our (01:10:46) household problem. (01:10:48) >> It's so true. (01:10:48) >> Because what that person is then saying (01:10:50) is (01:10:51) you are only here to serve my needs and (01:10:54) the needs of this family. You are not (01:10:56) here to also look after yourself. And (01:10:59) that's that's a problem. So you want to (01:11:01) have those sorts of conversations (01:11:03) early. (01:11:04) >> But that is huge in Indian families. (01:11:06) Like in a lot that I know. I'm not (01:11:07) saying in every Indian family before (01:11:09) someone executes me. I'm saying like in (01:11:11) a lot of people that reply to my (01:11:13) comments and tell me they tell me that (01:11:15) their husband does say that to them (01:11:16) because these traditional roles are this (01:11:18) is what I was told. (01:11:19) >> They're entrenched. That's (01:11:20) >> you're at home all day. Like this is (01:11:23) this the phrase you're at home all day (01:11:25) is you should be doing the cooking, the (01:11:27) cleaning, the ironing my shirt, the (01:11:28) preparing my pack lunch, the golden (01:11:30) carpet when I arrive when I get home (01:11:32) because you have been chilling and I (01:11:35) have been working for us and I deserve a (01:11:38) reward whilst you are just at home. (01:11:39) You're not earning any money. You have (01:11:41) no value. And this is the thing that (01:11:43) makes me so sad is that so many men have (01:11:46) told women that they have no value when (01:11:48) they have said to them, you stay at home (01:11:50) and look after the kids because they (01:11:52) don't want to. And a child is made by (01:11:56) two people. Two people's responsibility. (01:11:58) So why on earth have we said that is (01:12:01) only the responsibility of the woman? (01:12:03) >> Exactly. This is it. And this is what I (01:12:04) mean when I say we have undervalued (01:12:06) caregiving. I had an amazing (01:12:08) psychologist on the podcast who's just (01:12:10) phenomenal and he's he's Dr. Rick Hansen (01:12:14) and he had done a study or unearthed a (01:12:16) study about 20 years ago that showed (01:12:18) that being at home with young children (01:12:20) is more stressful than 98% of paid jobs. (01:12:26) Of course it is. Think about what makes (01:12:28) something stressful. High cortisol. (01:12:31) >> Unexpected things happen in every given (01:12:34) moment. You can't focus on any one given (01:12:37) task. Your priorities switch second to (01:12:40) second. That is what it is like being at (01:12:42) home with young children. It is (01:12:43) extremely stressful. We know that from (01:12:46) cortisol markers. It's not gendered. (01:12:47) It's whatever gender. If you're around (01:12:49) young children, (01:12:50) >> it's extremely stressful. And I think (01:12:52) that's a big narrative shift that we (01:12:55) need to we need to have to really value (01:12:58) caregiving and how hard it is and how (01:13:01) valuable it is so that when they both (01:13:04) finish their roles they're then into (01:13:06) okay I've gone out and earned the money (01:13:09) you've been raising our children (01:13:11) extremely stressful. (01:13:12) >> Yes. (01:13:13) >> Now let's what can we share? It's never (01:13:16) going to be 5050 course because that's (01:13:18) not real life either. But it's about (01:13:19) having that conversation. Okay. So when (01:13:21) you get home, I need to tidy up from (01:13:24) dinner. Can you start putting the the (01:13:26) children into bath and can you start the (01:13:28) bedtime routine? For example, that might (01:13:30) be an agreement that you have. Or your (01:13:32) partner might say, I need half an hour (01:13:33) when I get in to decompress. Like work (01:13:35) is super stressful. You might say, (01:13:36) "Okay, you get in, (01:13:38) >> you go and have half an hour to (01:13:39) decompress. I will start the bed and (01:13:41) bath time routine and then we're going (01:13:42) to switch over and I'm going to have (01:13:44) half an hour to just decompress and you (01:13:46) are going to get to do their stories (01:13:48) because it's not a it's I shouldn't have (01:13:50) said get to you know it's like you get (01:13:52) the privilege of being able to (01:13:54) >> you know be with your children and and (01:13:57) connect with them after paid work which (01:13:58) you know lots of fathers through their (01:14:00) petressants will say that my you know my (01:14:02) work takes on a new meaning earning (01:14:04) money for the family takes on a new (01:14:06) meaning I I have a deeper purpose now (01:14:08) >> yes I'm willing to do more because of (01:14:10) that. (01:14:10) >> Exactly. So, I think it's just having (01:14:12) these conversations. There's no right (01:14:13) way. There's no wrong way. There's just (01:14:16) what feels right for each person. But if (01:14:18) someone in that experience is feeling (01:14:20) completely devalued, unseen, (01:14:22) misunderstood, nitpicked about time and (01:14:25) money, that isn't a parenting issue. (01:14:27) That is a relationship. That is a (01:14:29) relationship (01:14:30) >> issue. With mressants, you said that (01:14:32) your body really changes. (01:14:34) >> Yeah. Talk to me about like the (01:14:35) physiological like in adolescence how (01:14:38) your body completely changes your (01:14:39) hormones change. Yes. (01:14:40) >> Tell me more about what happens with (01:14:42) matressins. (01:14:43) >> Yes. So it takes two years for your (01:14:45) hormone levels to go back to where they (01:14:47) were pre pregnancy which is phenomenal (01:14:50) amount of time. And your brain actually (01:14:51) changes. This is absolutely fascinating. (01:14:54) So the part of your brain the gray (01:14:55) matter responsible for compassion and (01:14:58) empathy and understanding actually gets (01:15:00) bigger. makes a lot of sense, right? (01:15:02) Because (01:15:03) >> you have to connect and attune to a (01:15:05) non-verbal being that needs you for (01:15:07) everything. And this isn't just metrics, (01:15:09) this is petressence, too. It's whoever (01:15:11) spends more time with that baby will (01:15:13) experience these (01:15:14) >> these brain changes. So, essentially, (01:15:16) when you go through it, you go from me (01:15:18) to we, which is why a lot of mothers (01:15:21) will say, you know, I used to be able to (01:15:23) watch a sad advert and it just wasn't an (01:15:25) issue. Now, I remember, you know, when (01:15:28) my baby was little, you know, I would be (01:15:31) sobbing a charity advert on TV that (01:15:34) before I could, of course, feel some (01:15:36) empathy, but it felt like my skin had (01:15:38) been taken off. I couldn't walk past a (01:15:40) homeless person. I it it really (01:15:42) increases the empathy and the compassion (01:15:44) part of your brain. What I think is (01:15:46) phenomenal about this is how much sense (01:15:48) it it makes (01:15:50) >> but also that is why I think so many (01:15:52) amazing charities, purpose-led (01:15:55) businesses, leaders get born out of (01:15:59) parenthood (01:16:00) >> because you suddenly see things (01:16:03) >> differently. Your brain also goes into (01:16:05) so the amydala the fear center in the (01:16:07) brain also gets slightly heightened (01:16:08) which is where you get this sense of (01:16:10) hypervigilance. Sounds might feel (01:16:12) louder. you can hear, you know, your (01:16:14) babies cry when you're in a deep sleep. (01:16:18) Things like that happen. So, it's really (01:16:19) phenomenal the rewiring that that (01:16:21) happens. I like to think of it and I (01:16:23) reposition it in my community for as (01:16:25) kind of super skills. Like, you really (01:16:27) do get these super skills. Yes. (01:16:30) >> When you go through and when you become (01:16:32) a parent that I think we need to do more (01:16:34) work of communicating that into industry (01:16:37) and employees and organizations that (01:16:38) it's not seen as, (01:16:40) >> oh, you're a parent now, you don't care (01:16:41) about your work. No, you're bringing in (01:16:43) these new leadership skills. You know, (01:16:45) give me a boardroom any day over a (01:16:47) tantruming 2-year-old. And a lot of (01:16:49) parents would would agree with that. So, (01:16:52) I think I think thinking about I'm going (01:16:54) through this transition as we talked (01:16:55) about expansion. (01:16:57) >> It's an expansion. I'm a different (01:16:59) person. There's no going back. I'm not (01:17:00) going to try and get back to the old (01:17:02) Zoe, the old Shiovani. I'm not going to (01:17:04) try and get back. That person's gone. (01:17:06) What I'm going to do now is move forward (01:17:08) from this place with clarity, (01:17:10) self-awareness, self-compassion, and (01:17:12) expansion. (01:17:12) >> I mean, it's crazy if I'm honest. I (01:17:14) really never I never knew how much you (01:17:16) change as a person. I've never really (01:17:18) understood it if I'm completely honest (01:17:19) because I think all we are told is does (01:17:22) your body go back? Do you look the same? (01:17:23) >> Bounce back. (01:17:24) >> If you bounce back and you look the (01:17:25) same, your life is the same. you know, (01:17:27) you just and we didn't even get a chance (01:17:28) to actually talk about help um and paid (01:17:32) help, which is a conversation I really (01:17:33) want to have because I think a lot of (01:17:35) people struggle with getting paid help (01:17:36) and there's so much judgment on it, (01:17:38) which I really, really feel passionately (01:17:40) about that there shouldn't be because (01:17:41) you cannot have it all. (01:17:42) >> Same. (01:17:42) >> But for people who have just watched (01:17:43) this conversation who are on the other (01:17:45) side thinking, I feel really empowered, (01:17:46) but what do I do now? What's one thing (01:17:49) that you think any mother can do today (01:17:52) that will help them feel a little bit (01:17:54) better with managing metrics? (01:17:56) >> Self-compassion. Hands down. You want to (01:18:00) put your hand on your heart and you want (01:18:02) to say this is a really wild season of (01:18:05) my life and I am handling this so well. (01:18:10) Look at everything that I've done. Look (01:18:12) at everything that I've handled. Look at (01:18:13) the woman that I'm becoming. That (01:18:15) self-compassion will hold you through (01:18:18) the darkest of days. (01:18:20) >> Amazing. Well, thank you so much. I feel (01:18:23) I have learned so much from you and I'm (01:18:25) really really excited to start putting (01:18:27) these into, you know, practice the day (01:18:29) that that happens for me cuz I think (01:18:31) it'll be really really helpful. So, (01:18:32) thank you so much. Really appreciate you (01:18:34) coming on. (01:18:34) >> You're welcome.