AI is Ending the Social Media Era and What Comes Next | Gary Vee (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) I think we're at the beginning of the (00:00:02) end of the social media era. I think AI (00:00:05) cracks the current value proposition of (00:00:07) the social media platforms in their (00:00:09) current state. (00:00:10) >> This is already my favorite podcast (00:00:11) ever. Talking about a very smart thing. (00:00:13) When distribution changes, everything (00:00:15) changes. Augmented reality is a huge (00:00:18) winner. If we really do go to glasses (00:00:20) and we're really here, we could have a (00:00:21) third guest right now and she's here. (00:00:23) >> Some of the data that I'm [music] seeing (00:00:25) show that we're starting to show that we (00:00:27) want something new. A lot more people (00:00:29) are saying they're going to unplug than (00:00:31) actually people like Gary in the recent (00:00:33) poll I'm like stop from the wheel to AI (00:00:37) [music] we will go (00:00:38) >> AI will meet you where you are (00:00:40) >> and where you are at [music] all times. (00:00:42) I think video is a very big deal for (00:00:45) human beings. Videos have been the proof (00:00:46) of our society for 100 plus years and (00:00:49) we're 5 years away from no one believing (00:00:50) a video on the internet. That's the (00:00:52) dangerous part of this. [music] So let's (00:00:54) talk about it. (00:00:57) We're almost two decades into this era (00:01:00) of social media and we can feel like (00:01:02) it's a constant because we're so used to (00:01:05) waking up scrolling or talking about (00:01:07) social media. But the reality is the (00:01:09) industry is a variable. It's not a (00:01:11) constant as all industries that are born (00:01:14) of different technologies. So I'm trying (00:01:16) to understand are we at the beginning of (00:01:18) the end of the social media era and if (00:01:19) we are what's coming next? Today I'm (00:01:22) sitting down with Gary Vee, one of the (00:01:24) legendary earliest creators in the (00:01:26) social media economy. He was one of the (00:01:28) earliest people to write checks to (00:01:30) companies like Facebook and Twitter. He (00:01:32) has a notorious track record for (00:01:34) understanding what could be coming next (00:01:36) and where we're [music] going. I'm Shane (00:01:37) Bovel and this is I've got questions. (00:01:40) Okay, so I have a thesis. There's three (00:01:43) parts to it. I've teased it out on (00:01:45) social media a little bit. I've written (00:01:47) about it in my Substack, but I've never (00:01:49) put it together for anyone in its (00:01:50) entirety until now. And I think you're (00:01:52) the perfect person to run this through (00:01:54) it. (00:01:54) >> Well, I'm flattered. (00:01:56) >> So, I think we're at the beginning of (00:01:58) the end of the social media era. (00:02:00) >> Okay. (00:02:01) >> Part one of the thesis. So, I think and (00:02:03) they're all tied to AI. I think AI (00:02:07) cracks the current value proposition of (00:02:10) the social media platforms in their (00:02:12) current state. So, we post because (00:02:15) people watch us, right? Right? Whether (00:02:16) I'm signaling that I'm single or taken, (00:02:19) uh that I'm employable, that I was at (00:02:21) the beach the other day, (00:02:22) >> there's consumption on the other side. (00:02:23) >> We pose for human receipt. (00:02:25) >> Yes. (00:02:26) >> If we can't verify that I'm posting for (00:02:29) a bunch of R2-D2s or actual people, that (00:02:33) psychology of signaling starts to break. (00:02:35) So I post, but what is the incentive? (00:02:37) Because the feedback is not guaranteed. (00:02:39) >> Want to start? (00:02:40) >> Okay. I'm going to build them all and (00:02:42) then you can want to break them all (00:02:43) down. Okay. Part two. (00:02:46) The better AI gets and the more reliable (00:02:48) this technology gets, especially as it (00:02:50) transitions towards voice first, the (00:02:53) less I'm going to want to pull out my (00:02:54) phone and it's going to start to break (00:02:56) that habit that we formed of opening, (00:02:58) swiping, watching, viewing, and I'm just (00:03:00) going to say, "Alexa, Uber, order this (00:03:02) thing, do this thing, and I'm not going (00:03:04) to open and watch." And then the third, (00:03:09) AI, it's a general purpose technology (00:03:11) like the internet. And these (00:03:13) technologies don't mean that we do the (00:03:16) same thing just faster or more (00:03:17) automated. We do different things. (00:03:19) >> Yes. (00:03:19) >> So I think you know television YouTube (00:03:22) isn't automated TV. It was new people (00:03:25) that gained influence. So I feel like (00:03:27) we're on the beginning of something (00:03:29) entirely new that will have threads to (00:03:32) the social media economy, but it will be (00:03:34) unrecognizable as going from cable to (00:03:36) Tik Tok. (00:03:37) >> Couple things. So that's awesome. This (00:03:40) is so fun. This is already my favorite (00:03:41) podcast ever. Uh I would argue that (00:03:44) cable and Tik Tok are not wildly (00:03:47) different. (00:03:48) >> Okay. (00:03:48) >> So that's put on a shelf. Let's go back (00:03:50) to the beginning. (00:03:51) >> Yep. The value prop. (00:03:52) >> Yeah. (00:03:54) The reality is it will be and not or. If (00:03:57) you were if your numbers, let's just go (00:03:59) where I think you're going. Correct me (00:04:01) if I'm wrong. So I don't believe AI bots (00:04:04) or agents consuming content eliminates (00:04:08) the reality that humans could also (00:04:11) consume that content. So I view it as an (00:04:14) and environment versus or (00:04:17) >> to your point to many people's points in (00:04:19) fake fraud media world preocial like (00:04:23) bots in digital marketing. (00:04:26) you know, if I see 14 million views and (00:04:29) I know that that's actually only (00:04:30) 300,000, that creates a new, you know, (00:04:32) micro dynamic. (00:04:33) >> Sure. (00:04:34) >> But if the results of what I want to (00:04:37) happen happened from the 300,000 people (00:04:39) that actually saw it, (00:04:41) >> if I'm now posting and 99% is bots, but (00:04:44) 1% is human, and all my metrics are 99% (00:04:47) fake, but one is human or AI or bots or (00:04:50) agents or wherever we go. If the results (00:04:53) that I want (00:04:55) >> are still grounded in the 1% of human (00:04:58) instead of 100% human, I'm still going (00:05:00) to be incentivized to do it. If I say (00:05:03) I'm single and the only people that are (00:05:05) trying to date me is a is an AI agent (00:05:08) robot bad. (00:05:09) >> It's possible. But if it is also going (00:05:13) to be people just drowned out metrically (00:05:16) >> and maybe optically by data robots (00:05:20) agents, well then I'm still going to do (00:05:22) it. If I am going to sell wine or get (00:05:25) stopped by 500 people in the street and (00:05:26) say you changed my life, even though (00:05:29) yesterday year it was 100,000 views and (00:05:31) that's what resulted it and now it's 40 (00:05:33) million views, but it's really only a (00:05:34) 100,000 views. I'm still going to do it. (00:05:37) So the question becomes if there is (00:05:39) still human consumption no matter how (00:05:41) drowned out in an overall metric and the (00:05:44) actions are executed on by those humans (00:05:48) I don't think we walk away. So you're (00:05:50) saying, okay, if I'm selling makeup, and (00:05:52) sure, now I maybe have a a million (00:05:54) views, some of those are going to be (00:05:55) synthetic, but if I'm still growing my (00:05:57) sales because that information is (00:05:59) getting back to a human somehow, I know (00:06:02) that this is still working. Something's (00:06:04) happening, that it is actually working. (00:06:05) >> Correct. One of the cool things about (00:06:07) why I think we I built one of the (00:06:09) biggest marketing companies is I don't (00:06:11) care about marketing in a silo and I (00:06:14) think the marketing industry does. (00:06:16) >> I care about what marketing does for a (00:06:18) business. Right. (00:06:20) >> So, I've never worried about anything (00:06:22) other than I do this all the time like (00:06:24) trying to remind people like this is not (00:06:25) art class. This is we have to drive this (00:06:28) insurance company's business. (00:06:30) >> Right. Right. (00:06:30) >> So, that is a comp to what I'm saying. (00:06:33) >> But how does this happen on the same (00:06:35) platforms? Because what I'm envisioning (00:06:37) is cable and then Tik Tok on the same (00:06:39) channel. And that's (00:06:40) >> this is where I think you're wildly (00:06:41) right. So, I think one of the things you (00:06:43) said is like, you know, so a I could not (00:06:46) agree with you more about voice. In (00:06:48) fact, we started talking about this. (00:06:50) I've got some good ass receipts in 1617 (00:06:53) because I became infatuated. I started (00:06:55) seeing early AI. I I'm like, "Oh [ __ ] (00:06:57) Alexa's a beast." You know, like I (00:06:59) really voice (00:07:00) >> a worst voice technology will ever be. (00:07:03) >> Oh my god. (00:07:04) >> And it's the most conversation for us. (00:07:06) >> I only prompt and voice. (00:07:07) >> Me, (00:07:08) >> I only prompt and voice. (00:07:10) >> And there are entire businesses that are (00:07:12) now voiced first. So you go into their (00:07:13) offices, there are startups, they're not (00:07:15) typing, they're talking. And it's much (00:07:17) more. (00:07:18) >> I'm so pumped about that. As someone who (00:07:19) can't write for [ __ ] somebody's ass. (00:07:22) I'm pumped. (00:07:24) >> Anyway, so I'm a buyer. I've got another (00:07:25) build on yours. (00:07:26) >> Okay. (00:07:27) >> Because you're talking about a very (00:07:28) smart thing. When distribution changes, (00:07:30) everything changes. (00:07:31) >> I also believe, forget about voice, and (00:07:33) I'm with you on that. That's one thing. (00:07:35) >> Where is it? (00:07:36) >> So, you do agree that voice could break (00:07:38) that loop of open phone and watch (00:07:40) something (00:07:41) >> for sure. and open phone and watch (00:07:44) something is being battled on not just (00:07:46) by the voice devices (00:07:48) >> but this is coming (00:07:50) >> glasses (00:07:50) >> glasses I would argue that voice would (00:07:54) be an and because we still want to (00:07:56) consume visually (00:07:57) >> I think it's glasses I think voice to (00:08:00) your point may be a dent (00:08:02) >> sure (00:08:02) >> in consumption but I think if glasses (00:08:05) pulls off its mission y (00:08:06) >> whether it's meta whether it's Google (00:08:09) >> Apple who knows who's coming (00:08:10) >> and you know this could be some secret (00:08:11) Right now there's a Chinese based (00:08:13) company (00:08:16) >> that when glasses comes that I believe (00:08:20) glasses is the most obvious thing (00:08:22) brewing that is going to do to phone (00:08:25) what phone did to television (00:08:27) >> and what television did to radio. I (00:08:28) fully agree (00:08:29) >> and so okay so let's paint this new (00:08:31) economy. So maybe you throw on your (00:08:32) glasses and or you have AirPods. So when (00:08:35) Apple dropped AI translation in their (00:08:37) AirPods a couple months ago and it is (00:08:38) amazing that you can do translate (00:08:39) anything anytime. I saw an AI in your (00:08:42) ear. That is the beginning of that (00:08:44) behavior. AI and ear talking to AI. I (00:08:47) mean, social media companies are now (00:08:49) actually competing with people talking (00:08:50) to Chad GBT versus going on those (00:08:52) platforms. So, we're already seeing (00:08:53) that. (00:08:54) >> Every, you know, I wrote a book. Oh, (00:08:56) there it is. I wrote a book, Day Trading (00:08:58) Attention. (00:08:59) >> I think it's the only asset, and I think (00:09:00) you're touching on this. They're all (00:09:02) competing. (00:09:02) >> They're all competing. (00:09:03) >> I mean, they're competing with sleep. (00:09:06) >> They're competing with competing with (00:09:08) working out. They're competing with us (00:09:10) doing what we're doing right now. (00:09:12) Netflix versus Tik Tok, Tik Tok versus (00:09:14) the New York Times, (00:09:15) >> soon the live experiences, which we can (00:09:16) get into. But let's paint this (00:09:18) ecosystem, right? So you maybe throw (00:09:19) someone's going to throw on glasses when (00:09:21) they need to see something, but it can't (00:09:23) look the same way, right? You can't be (00:09:24) scrolling TikTok with your eyes, the (00:09:26) format has to change. So I think (00:09:29) >> that 90second video clip, we are at the (00:09:32) beginning of the end of that as the (00:09:33) center of gravity. (00:09:34) >> I think video is a very big deal for (00:09:37) human beings. (00:09:38) >> Mhm. So, I think that's the dangerous (00:09:40) part of this. So, let's talk about it. (00:09:44) Couple things. I believe, and I have a (00:09:46) feeling as I'm starting to get in here (00:09:48) with you that you'll see this as well. I (00:09:51) think augmented reality is a huge (00:09:53) winner. You know, AR is going to be very (00:09:56) big. (00:09:57) >> If we really do go to glasses and we're (00:09:59) really here, we could have a third guest (00:10:01) right now and she's here. Mhm. (00:10:04) >> So I think I think video starts to get (00:10:07) very three-dimensional (00:10:09) >> and interactive. (00:10:10) >> Correct. It gets really powerful. (00:10:12) >> So to your point like watching a 30-se (00:10:15) secondond video in a box on your phone (00:10:18) is absolutely going to feel as mundane (00:10:20) as like the old motion pictures. Totally (00:10:22) like you know like you see like they (00:10:24) used to move manually like no doubt. (00:10:26) >> Y (00:10:27) >> I think that again I'm just looking at (00:10:29) everything I can see with my eyes right (00:10:31) now. If it goes back to the sphere in (00:10:33) Las Vegas, (00:10:35) >> that venue (00:10:36) >> like do I watch Star Wars 67 (00:10:39) >> in 20 years where everything is (00:10:42) activated? I think so. (00:10:45) >> That's right. Like it's not limited, but (00:10:47) it will be in video form. (00:10:49) >> It might be in AR three-dimensional form (00:10:53) as the technology grows. I'm in the (00:10:54) movie. Like it gets really immersive. (00:10:56) Like I don't see how we are not robots (00:10:59) at some point, you know? probably not in (00:11:01) my lifetime. Maybe in my lifetime. This (00:11:02) stuff sometimes goes pretty fast, but (00:11:04) hopefully I live long. Um, but yes, I (00:11:08) think I think that is the case. Um, I (00:11:10) think it's the glasses and AR content (00:11:14) becoming the winner in that decade. What (00:11:18) video in this device? I think this is (00:11:20) the distribution. Like for example, the (00:11:23) LLM, you know, AEO GEO thing that you (00:11:25) brought up about Uber or utility. When (00:11:28) I'm going into Uber, I'm going into (00:11:29) Uber. I'm not on Instagram anyway. I (00:11:31) don't think that's taking away. (00:11:33) >> You know what I mean? I'm in Uber (00:11:34) anyway. I'm in Uber for 13 seconds and I (00:11:36) go back to Instagram now. It's (00:11:38) frictionless to your point. It's so (00:11:39) easy. But I'm not worried about that (00:11:42) part that you brought up. (00:11:43) >> I I think voice pluses (00:11:46) is bad for phone (00:11:48) >> and we reset. And I agree. I think in (00:11:51) the beginning just like this is such I'm (00:11:53) going to make a prediction. I'm very (00:11:55) passionate about I believe a lot of the (00:11:56) early executions will be silly. They (00:11:59) will be one minute videos that just show (00:12:02) up in your glasses because a lot of (00:12:03) people won't be used to the new (00:12:05) distribution. (00:12:07) >> The first commercials on television were (00:12:09) radios. (00:12:10) >> Yeah. (00:12:10) >> It was a photo and a man read it just as (00:12:12) if he was on radio. And it took time for (00:12:15) us to understand the power. Correct. (00:12:17) >> So totally new operating system, voice (00:12:20) interface and AR interface in a world (00:12:23) where we're wearing this predominantly. (00:12:26) I think it's going to get so good 10 (00:12:27) years after it comes out that people (00:12:29) will struggle to take their glasses off (00:12:31) because you won't even be able to live (00:12:32) in the world because you'll be missing (00:12:34) too much, (00:12:35) >> right? (00:12:36) >> 20 years after it, just like the iPhone, (00:12:38) you know, the, you know, you may know (00:12:39) this, the original big app on the iPhone (00:12:41) was drinking a beer. Like silly, we (00:12:44) didn't know yet. That's a long cry from (00:12:46) Uber or, you know, Instagram or what (00:12:49) have you. And so, (00:12:50) >> yeah, I think that those are the themes (00:12:52) I agree with. So it's either the current (00:12:54) players and they're probably planning (00:12:55) for this because you do see meta step (00:12:57) into our glasses, but the future it's (00:12:59) not a continuation, right? You don't (00:13:01) just pile on the new thing. There is an (00:13:04) app or a some kind of experience waiting (00:13:08) to be born that combines either the (00:13:10) glasses and or AirPods and or some form (00:13:13) of a pendant that's a new type of (00:13:16) interaction that's just not this. (00:13:19) >> This has no shot. (00:13:21) >> It's (00:13:22) Yeah. I mean (00:13:23) >> it will take time. This isn't tomorrow. (00:13:25) >> Correct. I think it's you know I think (00:13:27) it's still I think this has got a decade (00:13:29) for real. (00:13:30) >> Do you think I do because I think the (00:13:32) glasses that I'm talking about and the (00:13:34) voice interface (00:13:36) universal everywhere we turn (00:13:38) >> has more work to be done. Meta's project (00:13:41) Orion I think is hoping for six years (00:13:43) from now and that's like they're (00:13:45) ambitious and hopeful. So, and then even (00:13:48) when it comes out, I mean, this was my (00:13:50) thing back then. Like, I was like, when (00:13:51) the iPhone came out, I'm like, "All of (00:13:52) you are going to have an iPhone." They (00:13:54) all laughed at me because they all loved (00:13:55) their Black. (00:13:56) >> So, did TechCrunch. Everybody slammed (00:13:57) the iPhone. It was going to bomb, fail (00:14:00) miserably. (00:14:00) >> People don't understand people's like (00:14:02) people don't understand what people (00:14:03) value. Like, at the time, for me, it was (00:14:05) an easy read. I'm like, the internet's (00:14:07) on this and not like the Blackberry, (00:14:08) like the real internet. This is a (00:14:10) computer. So, you know, I think that um (00:14:13) I think that it will be that kind of (00:14:16) window, but this (00:14:20) will be replaced by a more extreme (00:14:22) version of this, just so you know. (00:14:24) >> Do you Okay, so I think I mean some of (00:14:26) the data that I'm seeing show that we're (00:14:28) starting to show that we want something (00:14:30) new or we're ready for what's next. (00:14:32) Whether that's people spending less time (00:14:34) on social media, especially Gen Alpha, (00:14:35) and I know that that's something that (00:14:36) you've talked about. People want to live (00:14:37) in the world now. (00:14:38) >> I love that. I agree. (00:14:39) >> I love that too. I think it's barbells. (00:14:41) My I think we're going to go into (00:14:43) extremism on both. Look, the techn is (00:14:46) too intoxicating to the human being. (00:14:49) >> Like we only go one direction. (00:14:51) >> It's always extreme. (00:14:52) >> Yeah. Like it's always the new (00:14:54) technologies win. Like people held on to (00:14:56) candles and lanterns, but electricity (00:14:58) won. (00:14:59) >> People stuck with their horses for a (00:15:00) like (00:15:01) >> Yeah. Yeah. We go to the next. (00:15:02) >> We're going to because it's just too (00:15:04) it's just it's too obvious. It's the (00:15:06) most historical truth of man. From the (00:15:09) wheel to AI, we will go (00:15:12) >> move forward. Yeah. (00:15:13) >> And we will have pockets of adjusting (00:15:15) like everyone smoked. Then no one (00:15:18) smoked. And by the way, smoking starting (00:15:19) to come back. (00:15:20) >> Like not vapes, (00:15:21) >> right? (00:15:22) >> Cigarettes. The cool kids in Brooklyn (00:15:24) are starting to do it again. You could (00:15:26) see it. It's starting to happen. (00:15:28) >> Alcohol. No. Yes. No. Yeah. Like it. (00:15:31) >> Yeah. It cannabis. Most people don't (00:15:34) know the history. like they don't (00:15:35) understand like go back 150 years and we (00:15:37) were good. It's medicine. Yeah. Like (00:15:39) canceled and then it's back. (00:15:40) >> Correct. So, so we eb and flow in the (00:15:43) micro we're tired of all this for sure. (00:15:46) >> Uh and then there's kids always want to (00:15:48) be cool so I'm going to get a CD player. (00:15:51) Just like there's all that (00:15:53) >> but in the macro the tech will win. The (00:15:56) tech could be getting so extreme. The (00:15:58) fun thing to think about is that's how (00:16:00) he's always gone. Is this so extreme (00:16:03) that it does create this counter on the (00:16:05) barbell? (00:16:06) >> Do we start understanding the weekends (00:16:09) more? Do we go in hyper acceleration of (00:16:12) AI to a three-day, two-day work week? (00:16:15) What the [ __ ] does that mean? 5 days of (00:16:17) leisure. It now you are yogaing and (00:16:20) climbing a mountain. You know, like (00:16:22) extreme capitalism might look like (00:16:23) socialism. Like who, you know, this gets (00:16:25) really fascinating. What I meant by that (00:16:27) everyone is you know if seven companies (00:16:29) become trillions because of this (00:16:31) technology and they have all the moes (00:16:33) well they might you know and and jobs (00:16:35) are just getting rat government's going (00:16:36) to get involved and make them subsidize (00:16:39) the carnage. So I don't know these are (00:16:41) all the fun questions I think about (00:16:42) constantly. Yeah, and I think we do eb (00:16:44) and flow. I think we're going to go (00:16:45) through a dip where people are going to (00:16:47) go offline and we see a bit of a a (00:16:49) renaissance. And I think marketing (00:16:52) companies are going to figure out how do (00:16:53) I leverage technology because it's not (00:16:54) that you're getting now a telegram to (00:16:56) tell you where the new thing is in in in (00:16:58) the park. Companies are going to figure (00:17:00) out how do we use technology to get (00:17:02) people into offline experiences that are (00:17:04) worth attending. And that's coming. (00:17:06) >> That's happening. (00:17:07) >> And we're seeing it. I (00:17:08) >> I would argue that's been happening. I (00:17:09) would argue that technology has been the (00:17:11) gateway drug to in real life. (00:17:14) >> Like like I'll give you an example. Do (00:17:15) you know how many people are going to go (00:17:16) out on a date tonight that it started in (00:17:18) their phone (00:17:20) >> tonight? Most people Yeah. (00:17:21) >> Do you know how insane that is? I would (00:17:23) argue that's been happening. (00:17:25) >> Like literally in New York, we're in New (00:17:27) York City right now. (00:17:27) >> Yeah. (00:17:28) >> Tonight. Is tonight Wednesday or (00:17:29) Thursday? (00:17:30) >> Wednesday. (00:17:30) >> Okay. Tomorrow night. I'm just going to (00:17:32) go with Thursday. Tomorrow night. Do you (00:17:34) know how many people are about to go on (00:17:35) a date tomorrow night in New York City (00:17:38) where that started with a DM on (00:17:40) Instagram or Tinder or something else (00:17:43) like (00:17:43) >> LinkedIn apparently? (00:17:44) >> Yeah. Substack writers are get on fire (00:17:48) like you know like (00:17:49) >> that happened digital to then go (00:17:52) >> to have a meal or a drink or a coffee. (00:17:55) It's been happening. I think we in (00:17:58) society (00:18:00) >> are tackling a lot of anxiety around a (00:18:02) lot of issues. Geopolitics is not chill. (00:18:05) It's not 2002. (00:18:06) >> No. (00:18:07) >> Um (00:18:08) >> I think modern parenting had a tough (00:18:11) chapter the last 30 years. So we have a (00:18:12) lot of insecurity (00:18:14) >> in the early 20s and 30s in society in (00:18:17) in Western first world countries. (00:18:19) >> Um (00:18:20) >> I think we've become dramatically (00:18:21) materialistic. Unfortunately they (00:18:24) materialism has really had a good run. I (00:18:27) think we're really overly (00:18:28) >> we're ready to unsubscribe from that. I (00:18:30) mean, I've been on my whole life's been (00:18:31) unsubscribed for that. And I think so (00:18:32) much of my happiness comes from (00:18:33) >> 30-y old tea. (00:18:34) >> Yeah, I love that. Well, that's cool. (00:18:35) You know, that's ironic. Cool. The other (00:18:36) way. I'm like, "Oh, she's cool." So, I (00:18:38) think there's a lot going on that makes (00:18:40) it easy for us to not be accountable of (00:18:42) our own shortcomings and say, "Oo, it's (00:18:44) you." (00:18:46) >> And so, that's what I'm spending a lot (00:18:48) of time thinking about, which is why (00:18:50) we're, for example, you know this with (00:18:52) data, a lot more people are saying (00:18:54) they're going to unplug than actually (00:18:56) unplug. Right? (00:18:57) >> We talk big. That's what people are like (00:18:59) Gary in the recent poll I'm like not (00:19:01) interested stop (00:19:03) >> we think it's less people are talking (00:19:06) about moving offline but hardly anyone's (00:19:08) going we're seeing it in some of the (00:19:09) data with Gen Alpha they're physically (00:19:10) not getting the same phones and they're (00:19:12) not signing up in the same or they're in (00:19:14) DMs (00:19:14) >> I agree they're not in the feed that's (00:19:16) right I see that (00:19:18) >> um (00:19:19) >> there's a lot to watch with them you (00:19:20) know I have a 16 and 13year-old and I (00:19:23) spend so much time on youth culture (00:19:25) there's a lot to see how it all plays (00:19:26) out I think there's a lot of ironic (00:19:28) Cool. (00:19:28) >> Mhm. (00:19:29) >> I think Gen Alpha is doing its thing (00:19:31) against Gen Z, which is like so fun to (00:19:33) watch cuz I got to really watch Gen Z do (00:19:36) it to millennials. (00:19:37) >> Created a whole new dynamic. (00:19:39) >> Um, when I was growing up, I'm Gen X. (00:19:41) Like, we didn't even know that we were (00:19:43) in Gen X or I didn't know what a boomer (00:19:44) was. Like it, you know, we found another (00:19:46) thing to separate us. (00:19:47) >> Yeah. Yeah. (00:19:48) >> I I always I hate it. I hate the whole (00:19:51) generational thing. As if religion, (00:19:53) race, gender wasn't enough things to (00:19:55) divide us, we added another thing. You (00:19:57) know, there's a lot of tension and I (00:19:59) think that seeps into how we view (00:20:01) technology. I think we're blaming (00:20:03) technology and I also think we're (00:20:04) posturing. (00:20:05) >> I think we say something in a poll or a (00:20:08) survey and we act a different way. (00:20:09) >> We are aspirational. So your dating (00:20:11) profile, your LinkedIn, your resume is (00:20:13) who you hope to present yourself. And (00:20:15) you probably answer a poll in that way, (00:20:17) too. (00:20:17) >> You're very sweet. I would argue that (00:20:19) we're full of [ __ ] and we're hypocrites. (00:20:22) [laughter] You know, you know, I think (00:20:24) we we I think we're audacious. I think (00:20:25) we I think people think they can trick (00:20:27) people. (00:20:28) >> You know, one of the great things that (00:20:29) happened in my life, luck of the draw, (00:20:31) DNA wise, parenting circumstance was my (00:20:34) intuition's really on. (00:20:36) >> And it's really hard to trick me. (00:20:39) >> And I think that scared me because I was (00:20:41) like, "Wait a minute. I don't want to (00:20:43) trick the 99%. I want the 1%, you know, (00:20:47) intellectual, successful, optimistic, (00:20:49) good to like me. I'm not going to (00:20:51) trick." Mhm. (00:20:52) >> I think a lot of people get away with (00:20:54) tricking people or think it's they can (00:20:56) trick people cuz they're trickable. (00:20:58) >> So it brings me to an interesting point (00:21:00) because we've been hearing a lot about (00:21:01) the word authenticity (00:21:04) especially as it relates to AI. (00:21:06) >> Yes. (00:21:06) >> So people saying okay AI is coming. (00:21:08) There's going to be AI influencers or (00:21:11) and I mean um I think Adam Mazeri did a (00:21:13) big mini essay on Instagram talking (00:21:15) about the rise of AI in the platform and (00:21:17) we know we see what you're seeing and (00:21:18) we're going to try to figure this out. (00:21:19) Instagram's gonna have to figure (00:21:20) something out. But for the meantime, try (00:21:22) to be authent authentic because (00:21:24) authenticity is going to win. (00:21:26) [snorts] (00:21:27) I feel like we're off to shaky ground. (00:21:30) If we're thinking about authenticity in (00:21:32) relationship to a machine, I feel like (00:21:34) that's already out. I think authenticity (00:21:36) should have nothing to do with the AI or (00:21:38) anything else. I I don't even know where (00:21:40) we're going with that with authenticity. (00:21:42) >> That's a great I love how you think. (00:21:43) Couple things. Let's go backwards. (00:21:46) Is it authentic to make art on a canvas? (00:21:51) It's one of my favorite historical (00:21:52) events. When the canvas was invented, (00:21:55) all the artists said (00:21:56) >> it was radical. (00:21:57) >> They said it wasn't real. They said, "If (00:21:59) you make art on a canvas, it's not real. (00:22:02) You must make it on a building." (00:22:04) The amount of people that just heard (00:22:05) that that had never knew that and they (00:22:07) think that's real art. And like an NFT, (00:22:10) no way. Digital art, right? M. (00:22:12) >> So machines, was it authentic for people (00:22:15) to show up on radio and television? Cuz (00:22:18) that was a machine. (00:22:20) >> Mhm. (00:22:20) >> So like those are machines. Did that (00:22:23) require did that require like did you (00:22:26) have to (00:22:26) >> did Martin Luther King have to just be (00:22:28) was he only authentic to the people that (00:22:30) were on that lawn? Because [ __ ] I (00:22:32) surely felt something as a I went to MLK (00:22:34) elementary school and it was a big deal (00:22:36) for me as a kid. that speech, you know, (00:22:40) you know, I get where you're coming (00:22:42) from, but I think it goes further back. (00:22:44) Like, was it authentic to to write down (00:22:47) words on a piece of paper with an ink (00:22:49) pen versus saying it to someone? I don't (00:22:52) know. It depends on my point of view is (00:22:55) the intent (00:22:57) and the actions are the authentic part, (00:23:00) not what's distributing it. (00:23:02) >> Yeah, totally. the intention because we (00:23:04) quickly go to authenticity just being (00:23:06) don't put effort in. I mean, but if (00:23:08) you're looking at someone like Wes (00:23:09) Anderson, I'm sure his movies aren't (00:23:11) cheap to make, but they're authentic to (00:23:12) him. (00:23:13) >> Well, that's right. (00:23:14) >> So, authenticity, it's like we shouldn't (00:23:15) it shouldn't even be in comparison to (00:23:16) others or machines. It's what is (00:23:18) interesting to you. (00:23:19) >> Plus, what can you do? Like you earlier (00:23:21) said my substack like I'm so not jealous (00:23:24) or envious, but like I'm like, man, I'm (00:23:27) I'm so capable of communicating with my (00:23:29) words. And thank God that can translate (00:23:31) into written, (00:23:32) >> but to write God, I've got nothing. (00:23:35) >> And like sometimes authenticity is (00:23:37) incredibly insular and solo. (00:23:39) >> Totally. It's not a It shouldn't be a (00:23:41) performance. Authent like the fact that (00:23:43) we immediately went to how you present (00:23:45) yourself to the world and it comes down (00:23:47) to how you it's missing the point. (00:23:49) >> I I've never by the way my way actually (00:23:52) back to the original creator. I am one (00:23:54) month away. In a month will be the 20th (00:23:57) anniversary of me making my first (00:23:58) YouTube video. YouTube wasn't even six (00:24:01) months old. (00:24:01) >> Congratulations. That's (00:24:03) >> no lighting, no audio. (00:24:05) >> And I did that for five years. (00:24:08) >> And by that time, everybody did have (00:24:09) lighting and audio. (00:24:11) >> And I don't know, it just like it felt (00:24:13) just fine. And guess what? It did great (00:24:16) >> and it worked (00:24:17) >> because I knew what I was talking about (00:24:18) with wine. I was knowledgeable about (00:24:20) wine. I was passionate about wine. And I (00:24:22) really wanted people to learn about wine (00:24:24) that were under 40 from a nonp (00:24:27) pretentious person so they could enjoy (00:24:29) it instead of thinking it was some (00:24:31) academic test. (00:24:32) >> Yeah, (00:24:32) >> I feel like I can do that with an AI (00:24:34) movie right now too and it will be (00:24:37) authentic. (00:24:37) >> Well, it's whatever is interesting to (00:24:39) you. If you are someone too that likes (00:24:40) the frills and likes the perfection just (00:24:42) because people are saying AI can maybe (00:24:44) do that. If that was where you that's (00:24:46) what inspires you, keep doing that (00:24:48) because we don't want to adapt away from (00:24:50) ourselves because of a machine. And I (00:24:52) think we're running in circles around (00:24:54) it. (00:24:54) >> There's a really funny saying that (00:24:56) modern parenting has for little kids (00:24:58) that says it it this is the saying (00:25:01) they'll say to a kid, don't yuck, (00:25:02) they're yum. (00:25:05) >> And my kid, my kids are 16 and 13, and I (00:25:08) heard that 10 years ago, and I was like, (00:25:10) that's awesome. That's how I see that's (00:25:12) how I see life. This was more about like (00:25:14) don't say that snacks are not nice (00:25:17) >> because that they love them. That's (00:25:18) interesting to them. (00:25:19) >> But that's where you're going. And (00:25:20) that's just like I'll be honest with (00:25:21) you, that's like in fact it's my number (00:25:24) one thing to h I don't understand (00:25:26) people's audacity to think that people (00:25:29) should see the world the way they see (00:25:31) it. I'm passionate about sharing my (00:25:33) observations, (00:25:34) >> but I'm in the business of conviction, (00:25:37) not convincing. (00:25:38) >> And I think we are all spending way too (00:25:41) much time on convincing. I agree. Okay. (00:25:44) I want to step into the agentic economy (00:25:47) because I think we we see it quite (00:25:49) similarly and we talked about it a (00:25:50) little bit. You and you had painted an (00:25:52) example at an event. You were doing a (00:25:54) fireside chat and just in case anyone's (00:25:55) listening that isn't familiar with what (00:25:57) is going to happen in a voice first (00:25:59) agentic economy. Can you give us an (00:26:01) example of where we could be going and (00:26:03) then we'll talk about what that could (00:26:04) mean for people who think they have a (00:26:05) message to say and how does the agent (00:26:07) find you or a brand? Yeah, I think what (00:26:09) you're setting me down a path of is this (00:26:11) concept where you just walk in and (00:26:12) you're just like, "Hey, Alexa, you know, (00:26:15) I have six boys coming over for dinner (00:26:17) tonight and I want, you know, pizza and (00:26:21) one of them's, you know, lactose (00:26:23) intolerant. Enter." That's like, you're (00:26:25) done. You don't even say enter. I'm I'm (00:26:26) like laughing that I'm saying enter. You (00:26:28) know, we're in a place where you're (00:26:30) going to talk this out and if you do not (00:26:32) name the brand or you're not specific, (00:26:34) the Agentic is going to make the (00:26:36) decision for you. (00:26:38) It's a very big deal. We're also going (00:26:40) to set our preferences. There is a day (00:26:41) of reckoning coming where I can tell you (00:26:43) for me, I'm going to set the deodorant I (00:26:46) buy and it will be set and repeat and (00:26:49) the agent's going to buy it for me and (00:26:51) I'm not going to be seduced by an endcap (00:26:53) at Walmart and like will an ad on social (00:26:57) media compel me enough to change my (00:26:59) settings? Maybe. Actually, possibly. In (00:27:03) fact, that could be the biggest of them (00:27:04) all. you can really prove advertising in (00:27:07) a world where imagine if Amazon buys (00:27:10) Snapchat, has a feed during that (00:27:12) short-term era as we're changing (00:27:13) platforms and I see an ad for something (00:27:16) and I'm not liking it. I'm actually (00:27:18) resetting my preferences on the (00:27:20) reordering of my shampoo to this (00:27:23) shampoo, you're going to find out how (00:27:24) valuable advertising is fast. (00:27:26) >> It is about to change so much. I think (00:27:28) if you're buying a wedding dress, sure, (00:27:30) you're going to be in the mix. you're (00:27:30) going to be watching looking at (00:27:32) >> or or check this out or for some people (00:27:35) pickles. You're right about wedding (00:27:36) dress. (00:27:37) >> Sure. These high ticket items. (00:27:38) >> Correct. I'm actually really fascinated (00:27:40) by pickles. (00:27:42) >> Do you like pickles? (00:27:43) >> I do. (00:27:43) >> Good. Me too. Do we like pickles enough (00:27:47) that we're really going to be deliberate (00:27:49) about it? (00:27:49) >> No. (00:27:50) >> I don't I don't think so either for me, (00:27:53) but let me give you one that I will be (00:27:54) just because this is fun. Wine. (00:27:56) >> Okay. I'm not going to be like, "Hey, (00:27:58) agent, just $20 wine, whatever you (00:28:00) think. Best deals, go." Uh-uh. I like (00:28:03) wine too much. I'm going to be in there (00:28:05) with It's going to be and (00:28:07) >> 90% is going to be you. Price, (00:28:09) convenience, set, reorder for me. (00:28:12) Reorder like the product's going to be (00:28:13) Internet of Things. When it's down to a (00:28:14) little bit, it'll reorder itself. All (00:28:16) that. (00:28:17) >> But it'll be fun to see who cares enough (00:28:19) about pickles to set pickles. Will you (00:28:21) do per toothpaste? How do you feel about (00:28:24) toothpaste? I'm I'm I'm (00:28:26) >> chill. (00:28:26) >> I'm chill on it. I'm chill. (00:28:28) >> What? Give me something mundane that (00:28:29) you're not chill about. (00:28:31) >> Perfumements. Beautiful. There you go. (00:28:33) So, let me say me could give a [ __ ] (00:28:35) >> Okay. (00:28:36) >> I'll be like whatever. Actually, back to (00:28:37) like where the world's really going. (00:28:39) I'll go to Atria, my bougie place here (00:28:40) in the city. They're going to do blood (00:28:41) work and whatever the right math is, (00:28:43) like I don't Right. So, like, but like (00:28:46) for you, (00:28:46) >> I'm comparing it. I'm running it through (00:28:47) an AI. I'm just (00:28:48) >> That's right. And you're going to not (00:28:50) let a You're not going to be like, (00:28:52) "Order supplements, just keep me good." (00:28:54) No. (00:28:54) we're going to converse about. And so (00:28:55) that I'm painting the picture that I (00:28:57) think we're all going to, which is we're (00:28:58) going to all learn that everyone has (00:29:00) things that they really care about. I (00:29:02) mean, there are people listening right (00:29:03) now that be like, I'm not letting my AI (00:29:05) order my beer. I'm going to be specific. (00:29:07) >> Sure. And there's a place for you. (00:29:08) >> That's what's going to be so awesome. (00:29:10) We're all going to be in a place of and (00:29:11) it's going to be so cool. We're going to (00:29:13) figure out what we actually care about (00:29:14) and things will change. I may have my (00:29:16) beer set and forget just so I have beers (00:29:19) for company and then I might go on a (00:29:21) trip and I'm like, "Oh, I'm into micro (00:29:23) bruise now." And then I might reset it. (00:29:24) And that whole interface of like (00:29:27) watching your life of like what you care (00:29:29) about, what you don't care about. Some (00:29:30) people think you should really, you (00:29:32) know, I'm going to blow you away. You (00:29:33) said car. I don't give a [ __ ] (00:29:35) >> That's crazy cuz I know car is like big (00:29:38) ticket. People really care. The logo, (00:29:40) the color, the leather. I don't. So Gary (00:29:43) will be like car, best price, best deal, (00:29:45) like whatever the arbitrage is that I (00:29:47) care about. Time, convenience, you know. (00:29:49) >> Yeah. Yeah. AI will meet you where you (00:29:51) are and and for me (00:29:54) >> and where you are at all times (00:29:56) >> and also you're going to set your (00:29:57) intention. So for me with the with food, (00:29:59) I would be like, "Okay, I'm I have (00:30:00) people coming over to pizza party (00:30:02) organic. Try to go low on the (00:30:04) microplastics if you can. Otherwise, (00:30:06) this is my budget. I'm good. I don't (00:30:07) need to see what it looks like, and I (00:30:09) don't want to I don't need to pick (00:30:11) things. Somebody else might not." (00:30:12) >> My wife spends 15 hours trying to make (00:30:15) sure every single part of the food she (00:30:17) puts in her body is clean. (00:30:20) Now, AI will do that for her in a real (00:30:22) way, too. But then how does the pizza (00:30:24) parlor, the skinare, the supplement (00:30:26) person, the somebody who has something (00:30:28) to say break? Where are you in that (00:30:30) stack? (00:30:31) >> I don't know. And I kind of know here's (00:30:33) what (00:30:33) >> I have some ideas too. Okay, go. (00:30:35) [laughter] (00:30:35) >> So first, (00:30:38) what Google did as being a toll booth (00:30:40) for the world for 25 years is wildly (00:30:42) misunderstood. (00:30:44) Open Table, you know, uh, Kayak, uh, you (00:30:49) know, Priceel Line, like the amount of (00:30:51) companies that were built on top of (00:30:52) Google search (00:30:54) >> to become massive companies on the (00:30:56) arbitrage of Google ads, bookings.com, (00:30:59) travel. I mean, it's insane. (00:31:02) That's about to happen with LLMs, (00:31:04) agents, and what have you. there's going (00:31:05) to be but the question becomes (00:31:08) do the companies that have the control (00:31:10) of our attention want to get into the (00:31:12) businesses (00:31:14) so will Google with Gemini during this (00:31:17) era because there's so little friction (00:31:19) will they decide instead of sending (00:31:21) people to H&R Block do they want to (00:31:24) become H&R Block (00:31:26) >> does open Aai want to get the ad revenue (00:31:29) from Geico (00:31:30) >> or do they want to compete with GEICO (00:31:32) because everyone's going to go through (00:31:33) their funnel So to your point, how do (00:31:36) you break through? One, this is going to (00:31:39) send the world into a frenzy of (00:31:40) understanding why brand is so important. (00:31:43) >> You know, there is like this goes back (00:31:46) to religion. (00:31:47) >> Like things are going to have to really (00:31:49) matter or it's just going to all happen (00:31:50) in the backdrop. (00:31:52) >> How you get something to matter will (00:31:53) come in a million ways. Back to your (00:31:54) point, I'm actually massively bullish on (00:31:57) experiential marketing. popping up at (00:31:59) Coachella and the Super Bowl, doing your (00:32:01) own stuff, having a running club, hiking (00:32:04) club, fishing club. I'm very into it. (00:32:06) Again, I think the way the world's going (00:32:08) to work (00:32:09) >> is whether it's we're still going to (00:32:12) live, right? You know, Ready Player One (00:32:14) is going to come at some point, some (00:32:15) version of it, but we're still going to (00:32:16) live for a little while, especially us (00:32:18) who are listening right now. (00:32:20) >> I'm I'm going to the Super Bowl in a (00:32:21) couple weeks. (00:32:22) >> That's Saturday. I'm going to walk (00:32:24) around before the game and do events and (00:32:26) go to parties. By the way, I really did (00:32:28) take note of your t-shirt. It's funny (00:32:29) you brought it up. (00:32:31) >> I take note. I'm like, that's cool. I (00:32:32) want that. Like, maybe I don't want my (00:32:35) AI to keep ordering me blank (00:32:38) >> black shirts. Maybe I want that one. I'm (00:32:41) going to be able to in two like in two (00:32:43) seconds be like, I want that. (00:32:45) >> And it's going to go cook. (00:32:47) >> And so, like, in a lot of ways, (00:32:49) >> it might be more extreme. See what I (00:32:52) just might be more we no friction. And (00:32:54) you can have what you want all the way. (00:32:55) And what makes us want something is word (00:32:58) of mouth, a conversation, walking down (00:33:00) the, you know, it's kind of like (00:33:02) >> real life influence. (00:33:04) >> Real life influence, right? But by the (00:33:06) way, there's going to be something that (00:33:08) we consume. (00:33:09) >> Sure. We'll be digitally connected. No (00:33:11) one's going Yeah. (00:33:13) Whatever the, you know, whatever the (00:33:15) YouTube or the Instagram or the Tik Tok (00:33:18) of the day is, whether it's an AR app, I (00:33:20) mean, look at if Meta wins, I promise (00:33:22) you, Instagram's going to have a place. (00:33:24) If Meta wins this, they're not going to (00:33:27) be like, you like, it's going to be (00:33:29) something. And by the way, it may be as (00:33:31) mundane. I'm looking at you right now. (00:33:33) There's a blank wall here. It is (00:33:35) potentially as mundane, and this will (00:33:37) break your heart maybe, depending on on (00:33:39) your vibes right now. Like it might be (00:33:41) that scrolling. I don't think so. I do (00:33:44) think in the short term it will be. (00:33:45) >> I think sure. There's in between times (00:33:46) >> like I said about the radio ad. Exactly. (00:33:49) >> Long term definitely. (00:33:50) >> It's going to be unrecognizable. (00:33:51) >> Oh yeah. Of of course because history (00:33:53) has told us that. (00:33:54) >> Yeah. Okay. So how does if you are an (00:33:57) economist that has some course to sell (00:33:59) or whatever it is that you're doing in (00:34:00) the future (00:34:02) understanding yes how how brand how (00:34:05) things resonate with people how you sell (00:34:07) a mission that you bring someone on on (00:34:09) board. That's I feel like we're now in a (00:34:11) time where it's really easy that Tik Tok (00:34:14) finds you because of algorithms and (00:34:16) that's the selling part. I think you're (00:34:17) gonna have to make your brand so (00:34:19) resonant and so because everything can (00:34:22) be instant and everything is going to be (00:34:24) much more I don't know. I I think it's (00:34:26) going to be trickier but maybe easier. (00:34:28) Yes, I think depends on where you are in (00:34:29) the thinking about it. So, right. And (00:34:31) notice I said the same thing. (00:34:33) >> Yeah. (00:34:33) >> Here's what you and I don't know (00:34:35) >> which is why I don't even think about (00:34:36) this [ __ ] I think about it in the (00:34:38) macro, but I do not try to go further. (00:34:41) >> It goes back to discovering Pearl Jam in (00:34:43) a bar. (00:34:45) >> I will know when I see it. (00:34:47) >> That's it. That That's it. (00:34:48) >> You got it. You and I agree. I'm sure (00:34:50) people are like, "Oh, wow." (00:34:51) >> Yep. (00:34:52) >> And I'm saying the next part that you're (00:34:54) trying to do, you know, in your world (00:34:57) that that is meaningful and you need to (00:34:58) do you do you. I can tell you for me (00:35:00) what's going to happen is when it's (00:35:02) here, (00:35:02) >> you'll see a signal and you'll be like, (00:35:04) "This is (00:35:04) >> that's it." Yeah. Like when Vine was 5 (00:35:06) seconds in, I'm like this. (00:35:08) >> Mhm. (00:35:09) >> And then you know Jerome Jar and Logan (00:35:11) Paul and King Batch and like I (00:35:12) understood it and I also knew I'm like (00:35:15) uh-oh short form. Remember 6 seconds (00:35:17) only. (00:35:18) >> Yeah. (00:35:18) >> And I was like uhoh this is a new (00:35:20) paradigm, right? (00:35:21) >> And now here we are, right? Like we're (00:35:23) in a shorter form snackable, (00:35:26) >> you know, not some people think it's (00:35:28) slop. (00:35:29) >> I'm like, okay, like one man's slop is (00:35:31) another man's dinner, right? Yeah. So, (00:35:33) you know, I think that I think the (00:35:35) principles are the same. I think you're (00:35:37) right. I think I I'll tell you what I (00:35:39) like about your vibe. I think you're (00:35:41) right that we're in the very early (00:35:43) pre-do. Yes. I think I think you're (00:35:46) right. I in fact I know Let me phrase. I (00:35:48) really think you're right that we're in (00:35:50) the beginnings of the crack. I think (00:35:53) that you're young. I I can tell you what (00:35:55) mistakes I made. I thought they were (00:35:57) going to happen faster. (00:35:58) >> Yeah. I'll never forget when I launched (00:36:00) wine library.com in July of 1997. (00:36:03) >> Thank god I wasn't making prediction (00:36:05) videos. I was like by the year 2000, (00:36:08) right? (00:36:08) >> Everybody will buy everything on the (00:36:10) internet. Yeah. Yeah. So you you know (00:36:11) these gray hairs come in handy. (00:36:13) >> Notice how I said some things you're (00:36:14) like oh wow when I said 10 year you know (00:36:16) >> it takes time because look at what's (00:36:18) happening with AI. (00:36:20) >> There's so many dynamics you can't (00:36:21) predict. (00:36:22) >> Several years ago I was like oh [ __ ] (00:36:24) because I have some nerdy ass friends. (00:36:26) Oh, [ __ ] AI is getting close, (00:36:29) >> right? (00:36:29) >> Yeah. Yeah. (00:36:30) >> I I don't think I could have even (00:36:31) understood how profound it really was, (00:36:33) but I was like, "Oh, it's coming close." (00:36:37) I could have never predicted then, even (00:36:39) though I was I knew it was close, that (00:36:41) there would be such a backlash (00:36:44) >> because I couldn't have predicted that (00:36:45) everyone was going to be so scared (00:36:47) shitless that they were going to lose (00:36:48) their job, that they're going to be mad (00:36:50) at AI in any form. M (00:36:52) >> do you know that most people's negative (00:36:53) opinions of AI in a commercial in (00:36:56) content is all actually predicated on (00:36:59) their own fear that they're going to (00:37:01) lose their job because of AI. (00:37:04) As you know, they're not even going to (00:37:05) know if it was AI generated or not. The (00:37:07) technology is too profound. (00:37:09) >> We're all going to consume unlimited (00:37:11) content in 24 months and have no [ __ ] (00:37:14) clue if it's real or not. Now the girl's (00:37:15) blurry and you're like, "Oh, that's an (00:37:17) AI model." We're dangerously close for (00:37:21) no one having any chance of guessing. (00:37:24) >> I think we're already here. I agree. I (00:37:25) think we're I can tell. I don't think (00:37:28) anyone can tell. (00:37:29) >> I think we're in an era where Let me say (00:37:31) it a different way. I agree that every (00:37:33) person listening has consumed an AI (00:37:35) person and did not (00:37:37) >> But I think you know what I'm about to (00:37:38) say. Many are consuming AI people in (00:37:40) their feeds right now and they can tell (00:37:42) it's AI. Got it. So that's going to go (00:37:44) away. (00:37:44) >> Yeah. (00:37:45) >> So I'm with you on the on the first (00:37:47) part. I know that. Yeah, (00:37:48) >> it's the second part that's going to get (00:37:50) them. (00:37:51) >> And where AI gets really interesting to (00:37:52) me because the the pressure that I think (00:37:55) we know we're at the beginning of (00:37:56) whatever is going to come next in (00:37:57) social, we're seeing the cracks. It's (00:37:59) not even unique to social media as an (00:38:01) industry. Any tech company that was any (00:38:03) tech incumbent born of the internet era (00:38:06) is feeling the pressure. We're seeing it (00:38:08) with dating apps. Netflix. Okay, so (00:38:10) Netflix stepping into the creator (00:38:12) economy. They're going to be putting (00:38:13) some YouTube videos on Netflix podcasts. (00:38:15) Great. Everybody was really excited. the (00:38:17) headlines where this is amazing. Amazing (00:38:18) if you're a creator or podcaster. I (00:38:20) didn't see this as a good signal for (00:38:21) Netflix. To me, this is an incumbent (00:38:24) under stress. They're stepping into a (00:38:26) mature industry. Podcasting and the (00:38:29) creator economy is it's a mature (00:38:30) industry. We're going on almost two (00:38:31) decades. Netflix is a tech company. Yes, (00:38:34) they're in the business of Hollywood, (00:38:35) but they are first and foremost an (00:38:37) innovator. And for them to not be (00:38:39) reinventing and instead stepping to me, (00:38:42) this is consolidation. (00:38:43) >> Let me tell you how my Let me tell you (00:38:45) what my I Let me tell you how I process (00:38:48) that. Yes. And and Okay. (00:38:50) >> That's it. I think you're you're right. (00:38:52) It's abs. It's the classic H. It's the (00:38:55) last 80 years of media. (00:38:56) >> Consolidation, fragmentation, pendulum (00:38:59) swings. Consolidate, break up, new (00:39:01) things come up. Consolidate, break up. I (00:39:03) mean, it's the same old [ __ ] (00:39:04) >> Summer Redstone was trying to do this 25 (00:39:06) years ago with Viacom. Like in cable, (00:39:08) it's all the same thing. (00:39:10) >> Um, (00:39:11) >> but we don't know what they're doing. (00:39:13) That's one thing for you and I that like (00:39:15) you know (00:39:15) >> to look at the market signals but we (00:39:17) don't know what they're actually working (00:39:18) on (00:39:19) >> especially in the game that they're all (00:39:20) playing now which is the secrets of what (00:39:22) they're working on have too much value (00:39:24) >> and no one and that's even with AI (00:39:25) companies no one's talking anymore (00:39:26) because everyone's copying what I'm (00:39:28) waiting for in entertainment and I'm I'm (00:39:30) actually not interested in watching a (00:39:32) movie with digital twins of Leo and Brad (00:39:34) Pitt to me that's not interesting and (00:39:36) that again isn't what the future is just (00:39:37) an automated present I think no one's (00:39:39) doing that or hopefully not what's (00:39:41) interesting to me is the kid that's in (00:39:43) their basement right now working with AI (00:39:46) to bring in a new type of entertainment (00:39:48) that we can't even imagine. And it seems (00:39:50) so radical as going from Broadway to (00:39:53) movies, it's a different type of (00:39:55) entertainment experiment. (00:39:56) >> And I think when the distribution is (00:39:58) more voice and glasses and not phone and (00:40:01) it's going to all make sense. (00:40:02) >> Correct. To your point, I could not (00:40:03) agree more. There's a seven-year-old (00:40:04) girl right now in her basement in (00:40:06) Toronto. (00:40:07) >> Yeah, of course. who is working on (00:40:08) something and she will be our Scorsesei (00:40:11) and our Spielberg and it's going to be (00:40:13) an immersive AR environment and we're (00:40:15) going to be like, "Holy fuck." It's (00:40:18) >> and it's totally obvious. That's right. (00:40:20) >> And it's great. (00:40:21) >> Mhm. (00:40:21) >> And it's great. (00:40:22) >> Yeah. (00:40:22) >> But I also think in the same way that (00:40:25) from an ironic lens, people want to read (00:40:28) a newspaper. (00:40:30) >> Totally. They'll want to sit down and (00:40:31) watch a movie (00:40:32) >> or reboot their old iPhone from 2026. (00:40:35) >> Nostalgic. and go through like I think (00:40:38) social in feed. (00:40:40) >> You're so young. You're going to see the (00:40:41) whole thing. You're going to see people (00:40:43) doing it in 40 years as a counter to (00:40:45) full immersive. This is going to seem (00:40:47) like the simple day. (00:40:48) >> Yeah. Yeah. And when you power this with (00:40:50) AI, and this gets interesting, when you (00:40:51) you have all your photos, you have all (00:40:53) of your calendar, everything that you've (00:40:54) done on your phone, you could one day (00:40:56) theoretically pass this to AI and say, (00:40:58) "Make me a documentary of my life." (00:41:00) >> I mean, and by the way, I mean, that's (00:41:03) why I filmed myself every day. (00:41:04) >> Oh, you're going to have Yeah. like for (00:41:06) five and a for seven years. (00:41:07) >> You're passing that down to your kids. (00:41:08) >> Oh my god. The I mean there's we are so (00:41:11) aligned. You're right. Like the early (00:41:13) videos is like I know this is weird. I'm (00:41:14) having a man follow me in a camera back (00:41:16) in 2015 when I did Daily V. (00:41:18) >> I'm like but do you understand that I (00:41:20) didn't know either of my grandfathers? (00:41:22) Do you know how cool this is that my (00:41:23) grandchildren are going to be able to (00:41:25) like really know who I was? Not all like (00:41:28) me. Holy cow. Only famous people used to (00:41:30) have a glimpse. This is way deeper. (00:41:32) >> Yeah. Footage of your life. Okay. Okay. (00:41:34) So, if people are listening though and (00:41:35) they're they hear us talking about the (00:41:37) creator economy is going to look like (00:41:38) something different. We're going (00:41:40) eventually somewhere else and you're on (00:41:41) a maybe a 5 10 year time frame even (00:41:44) though things are starting to change (00:41:45) now. I mean, I'm a creator so I benefit (00:41:48) from this world and I know it's (00:41:50) changing. (00:41:51) What should creators be doing today to (00:41:54) start positioning themselves for what's (00:41:56) coming? Going more a agent first. How (00:41:58) should we what should we be posting (00:42:00) doing? Showing up (00:42:01) >> not getting over crippled by tomorrow. (00:42:03) Yep. (00:42:04) >> So, it's flying two planes at once. (00:42:08) >> So, step one in all this noise, keep (00:42:11) doing what you're doing if it's working. (00:42:13) >> Yeah. (00:42:13) >> The more people know who you are, no (00:42:16) matter what happens in technology, that (00:42:19) is going to matter. So, I actually would (00:42:21) argue the number one thing a creator can (00:42:22) do right now is squeeze the living [ __ ] (00:42:25) out of the discoverability that is Tik (00:42:27) Tok. (00:42:30) >> I have transformed to every platform. (00:42:32) Mhm. (00:42:32) >> I'm one of the few humans on earth that (00:42:34) has millions of followers from LinkedIn (00:42:36) to Snap. (00:42:37) >> Yeah. (00:42:37) >> YouTube to Facebook, right? I've done it (00:42:40) in real time. (00:42:41) >> In fact, it's one of my biggest pet (00:42:42) peeves of creators that they're too (00:42:44) onedimensional. (00:42:46) >> That they're they're only on one or two (00:42:47) platforms. So, I go vertical. This is (00:42:50) going to go horizontal. And so, that's (00:42:51) got a whole different thing to it. (00:42:53) >> But the amount of brand and awareness (00:42:56) they create right now will service them (00:42:58) incredibly well, (00:43:01) >> right? Yeah. (00:43:02) >> Now, the transition, here's where you're (00:43:04) going. The transition of like we're all (00:43:06) here and now we're all over here. (00:43:08) >> They have to make sure they make that (00:43:09) transition, (00:43:10) >> right? (00:43:10) >> Yeah. (00:43:11) >> Cuz the MySpace friends I had did not. (00:43:14) >> Dane Cook could be the biggest. I mean, (00:43:16) he had whatever his wants and needs are, (00:43:18) Tila Tequila, whatever her wants and (00:43:20) needs are, their personalities, but they (00:43:22) didn't take their MySpace fame and (00:43:24) attack Facebook and Twitter the way I (00:43:27) thought they should or could have. Yeah. (00:43:28) >> Right. So, I think it's extracting, (00:43:32) >> but this other plane has to start to be (00:43:34) built where you have to start (00:43:35) challenging yourself to know what's (00:43:37) coming (00:43:38) >> you need to know what lovable is and (00:43:39) vibe coding. Maybe it works for you. You (00:43:42) need to know what's going on with live (00:43:43) shopping because you might be better at (00:43:45) the QVC part than the content stuff. You (00:43:47) need to start trying to use an agent or (00:43:50) AI or for research. Like, you have to (00:43:53) start getting on the treadmill because (00:43:54) the marathon's coming. (00:43:55) >> Yeah, it's (00:43:56) >> right. So, you got to get on the (00:43:57) treadmill. You don't have to become you (00:43:58) in a [ __ ] savant or technically deep, (00:44:01) >> but you have to start flirting. (00:44:03) >> You have to start flirting while (00:44:05) extracting. Yeah. (00:44:06) >> I can tell you for myself, I plan on (00:44:08) going nowhere. (00:44:09) >> Yeah. (00:44:09) >> And I'm trying to extract the [ __ ] out (00:44:11) of the current. (00:44:12) >> And I'm dangerous and I'm knowledgeable (00:44:14) about tomorrow. (00:44:14) >> And what it seems like you've done, and (00:44:16) I think every creator needs to be able (00:44:18) to do is what is your value proposition? (00:44:20) You have to be able to answer the (00:44:21) question. What is your value proposition (00:44:23) decoupled from the medium of the moment? (00:44:25) So it doesn't matter what the platform (00:44:27) is is of this moment. Maybe it's (00:44:28) YouTube, maybe it's Tik Tok, maybe it's (00:44:29) whatever comes next, but what your value (00:44:31) proposition is, you can translate it on (00:44:33) all the platforms. (00:44:34) >> Well, this is why I've told so many (00:44:35) people through the years like don't (00:44:36) trade on looks, they go away. Don't (00:44:38) trade on, you know, like like what are (00:44:40) you trading on? (00:44:42) >> Yeah. What's your mission? And what's (00:44:43) your value? (00:44:44) >> It's it's whatever the medium of the (00:44:46) moment is, it should be independent of (00:44:47) that. It's above that. (00:44:48) >> Well, that's why everything's worked for (00:44:49) me. Like I'm audience. What's in it for (00:44:52) them? Mhm. (00:44:53) >> I'm in a full 5149 mindset with the (00:44:56) world. (00:44:56) >> I want to give it more than I'm asking (00:44:58) for in return. (00:44:59) >> Yeah. (00:44:59) >> Makes me feel like I can never lose (00:45:01) agree. (00:45:01) >> This podcast, what am I doing here? (00:45:03) >> I'm desperately trying to say something (00:45:06) >> that brings value to your audience. I (00:45:08) have context for your audience. It (00:45:11) allows me to deliver content that has a (00:45:13) higher propensity to do well. (00:45:16) >> I'm not worried about like who's going (00:45:18) to discover me. I'll take it. (00:45:20) >> I'm I'm a human. I'd like it. Yeah, (00:45:22) >> I'm deaf. I'll tell you one thing cuz I (00:45:24) know how I roll. I really hope that (00:45:26) somebody who used to think I was a bozo (00:45:28) cuz I was yelling in 13 videos like, (00:45:30) "Wait a minute, there's a little more (00:45:31) depth to that Gary Vee than I, of (00:45:33) course, I'm a human, (00:45:35) >> but my main intent is I need to respect (00:45:38) this distribution. (00:45:39) >> We're here now. your context and how do (00:45:42) I as a human being say things that might (00:45:45) bring value that might be a complement (00:45:48) to the things they're hearing from you (00:45:50) which gives them two data cents that (00:45:51) allows oh (00:45:53) >> it wasn't me siloed it was you prepping (00:45:55) them three episodes ago saying something (00:45:57) that's been in their head I have a (00:45:59) little spin on it a different voice on (00:46:01) it and all of a sudden (00:46:03) >> Yep. Yep. And okay, and this would be (00:46:06) more of a personal question. You're over (00:46:09) under on live. I know you're saying live (00:46:11) shopping is the future and I think it's (00:46:13) the present. (00:46:14) >> It's the present. Do you think that (00:46:16) that's also the on-ramp to where we're (00:46:17) going next in terms of a social (00:46:19) ecosystem? (00:46:19) >> Well, it's happening too. In fact, I (00:46:21) would argue Twitch and Kick and these (00:46:24) live streamers, Kais and like, you know, (00:46:26) Aiden, I would say that's even further (00:46:28) along than live shopping. (00:46:30) >> I would say live is very obvious. (00:46:33) >> Massive. Yeah, (00:46:34) >> I think you would slay. It's a huge (00:46:37) commitment. It's a crazy thing. It's not (00:46:39) for most because it's a level of like (00:46:41) always on that is intense and but like (00:46:44) >> I would say what's going on on Twitch (00:46:46) and kick right now YouTube live is (00:46:48) massive and I think in doses like you (00:46:51) know a 24hour aathon with you answering (00:46:54) hey everybody on the podcast I'm sure (00:46:56) all of you would love her to commit from (00:46:58) a 9 to9 12-h hour available to you come (00:47:01) to this Twitch answer I'll answer (00:47:03) questions because right now you're (00:47:04) getting her brilliance through the (00:47:05) podcast they want to be able to (00:47:06) interact. Yeah, (00:47:08) >> that's the digital version of what (00:47:09) you're talking about in analog. That's (00:47:10) the halfway point. (00:47:12) >> Yeah. Live. And it's really interesting (00:47:14) because it's participatory. Everybody's (00:47:15) there together. So, it's not just (00:47:16) asynchronous like social. Yeah. It's (00:47:18) sports. It's real. And you It's only in (00:47:20) this moment and it never happens again. (00:47:22) >> It's awesome. (00:47:22) >> And to me, I don't know if it's (00:47:24) >> But not only does But it's actually (00:47:25) double good (00:47:26) >> because then you can share it after. (00:47:27) >> Of course, they clip the [ __ ] out of it, (00:47:29) put it everywhere, build more when it's (00:47:30) right. (00:47:30) >> I just want to say something to you that (00:47:32) I also think um is going to really land (00:47:34) for everyone else. (00:47:36) You strike me as dangerously close to a (00:47:40) next level. (00:47:41) >> And I'm going to say something right now (00:47:43) that I desperately hope brings you value (00:47:45) because it's wildly intended for that. (00:47:49) If as I'm recapping this last hour, (00:47:52) the more you think about the not what's (00:47:57) not working, (00:47:59) but what's about to work, (00:48:02) >> I feel like that's going to really (00:48:04) service you well. (00:48:06) Thank you. (00:48:07) >> My ability to not dwell or get myself (00:48:10) overconerned about the many things that (00:48:13) are not working (00:48:15) >> because in a macro I have incredible (00:48:17) belief in the human race (00:48:19) >> because we've proven it (00:48:22) will actually create a different energy (00:48:24) in you that I think will extract your (00:48:26) brilliance even more. (00:48:28) >> I genuinely believe that. (00:48:29) >> Thank you. It's on the record so we'll (00:48:32) take note. (00:48:32) >> You know what I mean? (00:48:33) >> Yeah. Do you see where I'm going? (00:48:34) >> Yeah. I think you're just a conscious (00:48:36) person, you know. I think that helps you (00:48:38) a lot. And I think, you know, man, for (00:48:41) you know, there's so many things that (00:48:43) are challenges and there's so much going (00:48:45) on. But I think the reason I got into (00:48:47) root causes, self-esteem, parent, like (00:48:49) real [ __ ] (00:48:50) >> is all these are just byproducts, (00:48:52) >> you know? (00:48:53) >> Like I don't know. I think we're we're (00:48:55) in an incredible place. And don't (00:48:56) forget, I'm part of the era 2008 Obama, (00:48:59) all the like this this stuff was (00:49:02) changing the world. It was nirvana. (00:49:04) We're on the other side now where a lot (00:49:06) of the we're getting exposed (00:49:09) >> to, you know, our shortcomings are (00:49:10) coming out, our angst is coming out. (00:49:12) >> They definitely are. (00:49:13) >> I think technology is wildly (00:49:17) historically obvious that it has been (00:49:19) net good for humans. (00:49:21) >> Penicellin was a good invention. (00:49:23) >> Electricity was a good invention. The (00:49:25) automobile was a good invention. And (00:49:27) unfortunately, someone today will you (00:49:30) will drive drunk and hit someone. You (00:49:32) know, (00:49:33) >> I think we focus on the 0.001% of bad (00:49:37) >> and don't see the 99% that's good. I (00:49:40) really believe that, by the way. (00:49:41) >> And I think for you specifically, the (00:49:43) way you're thinking and the way you're (00:49:44) rolling, (00:49:45) >> I felt very compelled to share that. (00:49:47) >> Thank you. I'll take it. (00:49:49) >> Thank you. (00:49:49) >> This is a pleasure. (00:49:50) >> For me, too. (00:49:51) >> That's a wrap. What impact do you think (00:49:52) AI will have on the workforce? And do (00:49:54) you think we're headed for an identity (00:49:56) crisis? (00:49:57) >> And this is the question that's (00:49:58) fascinating about AI. What else can I (00:50:00) become? Very few people have the courage (00:50:01) to ask that question. Why? Because they (00:50:03) look in the mirror in the morning and (00:50:04) they see an engineer or a doctor. They (00:50:06) don't see a person. (00:50:07) >> If they're not looking at artificial (00:50:08) intelligence and asking, "What are we (00:50:10) going to become with this technology?" (00:50:11) Would you say it's the beginning of the (00:50:13) end for