Nutrition expert: How to stop feeding your child junk food | Rhiannon Lambert & Dr. Federica Amati (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) kids are being raised on Ultra processed (00:00:02) foods that are appealing they're visual (00:00:04) they're colorful that doesn't help (00:00:06) support their learning support how they (00:00:07) approach the day ahead so it becomes (00:00:09) tricky to crack but I do believe there (00:00:12) are basic changes you can make that will (00:00:14) improve your child's health Ranna (00:00:16) Lambert is one of the UK's leading (00:00:18) nutritionists she's known for her (00:00:20) evidence-based approach to food and her (00:00:22) latest book the science of plant-based (00:00:24) nutrition is a Sunday Times bestseller (00:00:26) if you're picking up a packet of cereal (00:00:28) for your child and it's full of the (00:00:30) claims high in protein high in fiber (00:00:33) it's really deceptive because high in (00:00:35) fiber can still be high in sugar and (00:00:36) high in salt ranan is joined by Dr (00:00:39) Federica Marti Federica is head (00:00:41) nutritionist here at Zoe and author of (00:00:43) the bestselling book everybody should (00:00:45) know this children are more used to (00:00:47) opening a packet of crisps than they are (00:00:50) peeling a banana up to 72% of the (00:00:52) caloric intake come from Ultra processed (00:00:54) foods and what is this Ultra processed (00:00:56) food doing to my daughter's body they (00:00:59) can potentially to a higher risk of (00:01:01) obesity type 2 diabetes and there's also (00:01:04) this clear relationship between ultr (00:01:06) processed food consumption and how (00:01:08) they're able to manage at school for (00:01:10) example can I give my child food that's (00:01:13) healthy and that they will eat yes let's (00:01:16) be honest most kids don't want to just (00:01:18) eat steamed broccoli at that age you (00:01:20) have to reshape your home if that (00:01:22) chocolate bar they always have isn't in (00:01:23) the drawer and it's replaced with a (00:01:25) healthier version that's one switch that (00:01:27) you've made they will then start eating (00:01:29) ran should I get my an ice cream when (00:01:31) we're (00:01:33) [Music] (00:01:35) out welcome to Zoe science and nutrition (00:01:38) where World leading scientists explain (00:01:40) how their research can improve your (00:01:42) [Music] (00:01:44) health Rihanna and federa thank you for (00:01:47) joining me today thank you for having us (00:01:48) Jonathan I'm so excited can't wait so we (00:01:52) have a tradition here Rihanna which we (00:01:54) always start with a quick fire round of (00:01:57) questions love it bring it on brilliant (00:02:00) so the rules are simple yes or no or if (00:02:03) you absolutely have to a one- sentence (00:02:05) answer but there's a lot of penalties so (00:02:07) we we like to see yes or no you for it I (00:02:10) am all right I'm G to start with (00:02:12) ranan can I give my child food that's (00:02:15) healthy and that they will eat yes for (00:02:19) my kids meals to be healthy do I need to (00:02:22) prepare everything from scratch no (00:02:25) fed are children eating more Ultra (00:02:28) processed food than adults yes (00:02:31) is there an age during childhood where (00:02:33) nutrition will have a larger impact yes (00:02:36) ages can I lower the risk of my child (00:02:39) developing obesity yes and Ranna you (00:02:42) have a whole sentence for this one (00:02:44) what's the biggest misconception about (00:02:47) healthy eating for children that it's (00:02:49) simple and that it's laid out for (00:02:51) parents to access that is a huge (00:02:53) misconception it's far from simple it's (00:02:55) become complicated because of the mass (00:02:58) media marketing around it the answer the (00:03:00) questions are both quite positive but (00:03:02) also a little scary and actually it's (00:03:04) interesting I was I was thinking about (00:03:05) this this podcast this morning so I have (00:03:07) a daughter who's 5 years old and I have (00:03:09) a son who's 16 and so a decade ago my (00:03:12) son was basically the same age as my (00:03:13) daughter I hadn't started Zoe I hadn't (00:03:17) met my co-founder Professor Tim Spectre (00:03:19) and as a result I didn't really know (00:03:21) anything about food and I definitely (00:03:22) wasn't spending any time thinking about (00:03:24) food and I now realize that I fed my son (00:03:28) total junk while thinking in general I (00:03:31) was doing quite a good job and giving (00:03:32) him a good diet so it's slightly (00:03:34) terrifying as I as I think about that (00:03:36) and now I take my daughter's St and her (00:03:38) health very seriously and I think about (00:03:40) this impact on her gut (00:03:42) microbiome and honestly I think it's a (00:03:44) mindfield I think it's (00:03:46) incredibly difficult I find to find this (00:03:48) right balance of trying to get her to (00:03:50) eat well but also not making her really (00:03:52) stressed about things and also just the (00:03:54) challenge of getting her to eat anything (00:03:56) that I think might be good to eat and (00:04:00) realizing that basically surrounded by (00:04:03) um all this delicious Ultra processed (00:04:05) food and so it's not surprising that (00:04:07) this is what she wants to eat so maybe (00:04:09) we could sort of start at the beginning (00:04:11) like what's the problem with children's (00:04:14) food well I think you've touched on a (00:04:16) few things there Jonathan the first (00:04:17) thing is that there is this Relentless (00:04:19) food advertising aimed at children that (00:04:22) is of unhealthy Foods so there was a (00:04:24) report that was recently published by (00:04:26) bite back 2030 who are this charity (00:04:28) trying to help reduce the amount of (00:04:31) adverts aimed at children for unhealthy (00:04:33) foods and they found that on average UK (00:04:35) children are exposed to 15 billion junk (00:04:38) food adverts per year and the US is (00:04:40) presumably even high yes and so the us (00:04:42) we haven't got the number but it's (00:04:44) presumably even higher and the issue (00:04:47) here is that we are surrounded by foods (00:04:49) that we know don't support Children's (00:04:51) Health so it's much easier to access (00:04:53) those but they're also being heavily (00:04:54) advertised and anyone who has kids if (00:04:57) you watch TV with adverts in it so they (00:05:00) will want the thing my kids the other (00:05:02) day happened to find a channel that had (00:05:04) a an advert for a chicken roasting pot (00:05:06) oh gosh which is not and they like Mommy (00:05:08) can we have one of those like that is (00:05:11) literally the example of advertising (00:05:12) working its magic right so the problem (00:05:15) is is that we're not protecting our kids (00:05:18) in the UK and the US and so they're (00:05:20) exposed to these adverts they're exposed (00:05:21) to a lot of ultr processed foods and (00:05:23) frankly junk food and it's actually a (00:05:25) really precious time in life as we'll (00:05:27) get into where we can have a massive (00:05:29) impact on that health and well-being and (00:05:31) happiness with their daily food choices (00:05:33) so it's just not set up for us to (00:05:35) succeed at the moment I mean it's also (00:05:37) where parents are going to for the (00:05:38) information because we're bombarded by (00:05:41) this media um storm of uh packaged Goods (00:05:45) really that are appealing they're visual (00:05:47) they're bright they're colorful it's (00:05:49) everything a child would want why would (00:05:50) they not want something with a cartoon (00:05:52) image and I know there's some (00:05:54) legislation now that's cracking down on (00:05:56) that sort of display and how you display (00:05:58) foods to children but let's be honest I (00:06:00) think there's a stat 24% of adults now (00:06:03) go to social media for health advice (00:06:05) they're going for their kids advice how (00:06:07) to build lunch boxes how to tackle (00:06:09) everything and less than 2% of nutrition (00:06:12) information on Tik Tok for example is (00:06:14) accurate less than 2% less than 2% (00:06:17) that's rather terrifying it is isn't it (00:06:19) and talk a little bit about ultr (00:06:21) processed food within this because I (00:06:22) think that's one of the things that (00:06:23) we've touched on on a lot of podcasts (00:06:26) here about this sort of General growth (00:06:28) in ultr processed food but we've always (00:06:29) been talking about adults what's been (00:06:31) happening with children well (00:06:32) unfortunately it's um the numbers are a (00:06:34) bit worse for children so we know that (00:06:36) over half of calories in the UK and us (00:06:38) come from Ultra processed foods it's (00:06:40) really crept up it's roughly about 65% (00:06:42) for most adults now and when we look at (00:06:44) children we see that it's up to 72% and (00:06:48) what's really quite scary is that it's (00:06:50) the very young infant so like under the (00:06:52) age of 2 three and then teens who are (00:06:55) bringing these numbers up so it's a (00:06:58) really scary statistic um but it's also (00:07:01) not hard to see why when you go to the (00:07:03) supermarket and the children's food RS (00:07:06) the shelves are stacked with these Ultra (00:07:07) process prepackaged snacks and foods (00:07:10) that as ran said they're marketed as (00:07:12) being ideal for weaning ideal for (00:07:15) learning how to feed yourself like (00:07:17) contains a piece of kale whatever the (00:07:19) way they advertised actually makes them (00:07:21) sound like they've been designed to help (00:07:24) parents on the weaning Journey with (00:07:26) their children to create like a healthy (00:07:28) relationship with food but they are (00:07:30) actually just Ultra processed foods that (00:07:32) have been nicely packaged for (00:07:33) convenience we're living in a world (00:07:36) right now where children are more used (00:07:39) to opening a pouch or a packet of crisps (00:07:42) than they are peeling a banana that's (00:07:44) where we are and it's been really recent (00:07:46) that this flood of ultr processed foods (00:07:48) has arrived for children it's been in (00:07:50) the past 5 to 10 years and we absolutely (00:07:53) need to reverse that and there's a lot (00:07:55) of nuance to add to even that (00:07:56) conversation because if you look at the (00:07:58) gender divide of roles in household if (00:08:01) you look at the way that uh the (00:08:03) workforce has changed child care support (00:08:04) systems the time you know parents are (00:08:06) time poor I've got a 2-year-old a (00:08:08) four-year-old I'm a nutritionist and (00:08:10) sometimes I struggle to find the time (00:08:12) and if I'm the educated person that (00:08:15) struggles how is somebody that does not (00:08:17) have access to what is nutritionally (00:08:19) correct doesn't have the time they're (00:08:22) struggling they're trying to work all (00:08:24) hours because women are expected now (00:08:27) that there's a huge huge conversation (00:08:30) and a almost overwhelming system that's (00:08:33) in place now that isn't helping people (00:08:35) make better choices I just wanted to say (00:08:38) thank you first and foremost for being (00:08:40) part of this community the team here at (00:08:43) Zoe science and nutrition has really big (00:08:45) dreams for this show and that's because (00:08:48) of you when you watch And subscribe and (00:08:51) leave comments and submit your questions (00:08:53) we reach more people and that enables us (00:08:56) on our mission to improve the health of (00:08:58) millions and we've got huge plans to (00:09:01) grow this show even more this year if (00:09:04) there's one thing you could do to help (00:09:05) us do that is just to hit the Subscribe (00:09:08) button it means the world to us okay (00:09:11) back to the (00:09:12) show and what is this Ultra processed (00:09:15) food doing to my daughter's body yeah so (00:09:19) well we know for example there's a lot (00:09:20) of interest at the moment around (00:09:22) research and emulsifiers right so we (00:09:24) know that about 95% of baked goods like (00:09:27) buns and quas and Breads in supermarkets (00:09:29) contain at least one emulsifier most of (00:09:31) them contain two or more and what we're (00:09:34) starting to see is that emulsifiers (00:09:36) eaten every day in various types of (00:09:39) foods actually do disrupt the gut (00:09:41) microbiome and they can potentially lead (00:09:43) to higher levels of inflammation and all (00:09:46) of these things contribute to a higher (00:09:48) risk of basically being unwell whether (00:09:50) that's from the gastric symptoms so (00:09:52) having IBS or suffering with symptoms of (00:09:55) indigestion things like this but further (00:09:57) down the line when you have increased (00:09:59) inflammation in the gut for a long time (00:10:01) that's when you run into a higher risk (00:10:03) of things like developing obesity type 2 (00:10:06) diabetes and of developing autoimmune (00:10:09) conditions right so we want to protect (00:10:11) our children's gut health ultrapress (00:10:13) foods don't help us to do that but also (00:10:15) what's really important and I think this (00:10:16) is a really big red flag for us ultr (00:10:19) processed foods especially for children (00:10:20) are very often very high in added sugars (00:10:23) and the classic example of this is (00:10:25) flavored children's yogurts some of them (00:10:28) contain like an unbelievable amount of (00:10:30) sugar when you look at the back of pack (00:10:32) these tiny pots contain like teaspoons (00:10:34) and teaspoons of sugar and what we can (00:10:37) see in the UK and the US is that there's (00:10:39) this really massive rise in cavities so (00:10:42) children under the age of seven are (00:10:44) having their teeth removed under general (00:10:45) anesthesia because of the added sugar in (00:10:47) their diets more now than ever before (00:10:50) that's interesting because I feel as (00:10:51) though I'm in my late 40s I feel like (00:10:54) one of the things that shifted actually (00:10:56) is you know we were all drinking full (00:10:58) fat Coca-Cola when I was you know eight (00:11:01) or something right like there was before (00:11:02) really that that shift was just starting (00:11:04) away from Full sugar drinks to sort of (00:11:07) all of these artificial sweeteners so (00:11:09) I'm rather shocked that sort of 40 years (00:11:11) later we're actually getting worse (00:11:12) cavity so the sugar is (00:11:14) just fiveyear olds as well in the UK (00:11:17) it's under five there's a quarter of (00:11:18) children that have problems with their (00:11:20) teeth under five from the food they're (00:11:21) eating from the food system and this is (00:11:23) the thing it's like it's a huge red flag (00:11:25) how can children this young have (00:11:27) cavities so early and it's exposure to (00:11:29) constant added sugar Coca-Cola at least (00:11:32) you know what you're getting with (00:11:32) Coca-Cola right but so many children's (00:11:34) foods have added sugar including pasta (00:11:37) sources including Savory snacks so (00:11:40) there's foods that have added sugar to (00:11:42) make them more palatable for children (00:11:43) because at the end of the day Ultra (00:11:45) processed food companies want us to buy (00:11:47) more and more of these snacks for our (00:11:48) kids so we're now in a place where (00:11:50) there's added sugar everywhere it's (00:11:52) directly affecting children's teeth like (00:11:54) oral health before before you see the (00:11:56) longer term impacts um on their health (00:11:59) later in life and there's also this (00:12:01) really clear relationship between Ultra (00:12:03) processed food consumption and high (00:12:05) sugar consumption and how they're able (00:12:08) to manage at school for example so (00:12:10) behavioral issues not being able to sit (00:12:12) still all these things are related (00:12:15) correlated with have a relationship with (00:12:17) the dietary quality that children have (00:12:19) and having a a diet that's really high (00:12:21) in Ultra processed food for children is (00:12:23) just not supporting what they're (00:12:26) supposed to be doing which is growing (00:12:27) and learning and socializing so it's a (00:12:30) dangerous spot to be in for the health (00:12:33) of our future what will be future adults (00:12:36) right um because another thing to note (00:12:38) is that ultr processed foods are a (00:12:40) metabolic challenge for our bodies now (00:12:42) in adulthood when we have these (00:12:44) metabolic challenges you know we we're (00:12:47) aware that we need to look after our (00:12:48) metabolic Health as adults we're aware (00:12:50) that we should really try not to become (00:12:52) overweight we're aware that we should (00:12:54) keep an eye on our Bloods go to the GP (00:12:57) and make sure our blood pressures are (00:12:58) not Rising things like this but for (00:13:00) children constant metabolic challenges (00:13:02) is also disrupting their metabolic (00:13:04) Health they also need us to feed them (00:13:06) with foods that will help them to have a (00:13:08) really healthy metabolism as they go (00:13:09) into adulthood just before we move on i' (00:13:12) I'd love to talk about labels for a (00:13:13) minute Ranna because you know I think (00:13:16) that we see this across everything in (00:13:18) the grocery store but I think we see it (00:13:21) even more for the kids food where it (00:13:23) says like low sugar or high protein or (00:13:26) all natural what should we make of these (00:13:29) labels claims are often very deceptive (00:13:31) you know they're put there to sell a (00:13:33) product we have to remember that and you (00:13:35) know if if you buy an Apple for instance (00:13:37) you don't need it to have a claim that (00:13:39) says hey this is great for you this is a (00:13:41) source of fiber but if you're picking up (00:13:43) a packet of cereal for your child and (00:13:45) it's full of these claims high in (00:13:47) protein seems to be the trendy thing as (00:13:48) well still at the moment um high in (00:13:51) fiber perhaps that product is high in (00:13:53) fiber but what type of fiber what type (00:13:55) of added protein a lot of the time (00:13:57) companies put extra soil lesser than in (00:13:59) and different binders and different (00:14:00) ingredients to increase the um (00:14:03) capability of making a claim and every (00:14:05) country has its own unique way of (00:14:08) displaying these claims so it be (00:14:11) different in the US you know you'll have (00:14:12) a different way of categorizing things (00:14:15) volunt labeling as well with the traffic (00:14:17) light system which we have over in the (00:14:19) UK and I think some other countries have (00:14:21) as well where it could be red that means (00:14:22) you know high and sugar and orange which (00:14:25) is just on the CP probably not great all (00:14:28) the time and then green which is (00:14:29) opposite good that's voluntary so you (00:14:32) don't have to put it on every item it's (00:14:35) really deceptive and I actually advise (00:14:37) clients in in my clinic and my line of (00:14:39) work not to just go by the claim on a (00:14:41) packet and always to read the ingredient (00:14:43) list on the back and check the so check (00:14:46) the sugar because high in fiber can (00:14:48) still be high in sugar and high in salt (00:14:50) yeah and I would add to that that (00:14:51) actually if a product has a health cream (00:14:53) on the front and especially when it's (00:14:55) aimed at children great for finger food (00:14:57) great to start learning how to wean (00:14:59) ideal for ages 4 to 6 months don't buy (00:15:01) it because do you know what it's almost (00:15:04) 100% Going to Be an ultra processed food (00:15:06) that your child doesn't need because (00:15:08) that marketing is put there to encourage (00:15:10) people to buy something that they (00:15:12) essentially just don't need the best (00:15:14) example for this is things like baby (00:15:16) porridge these baby Rices that for some (00:15:18) reason are so pervasive oh we have to (00:15:20) start with that that's the first Sweeny (00:15:21) food like literally said who but do you (00:15:24) know why that I think it's because (00:15:25) parents are scared I think there's such (00:15:27) a vulnerability like when you just had a (00:15:29) baby I remember that feeling it was (00:15:31) lockedown and I can completely see why (00:15:33) people are pulled into that trap it (00:15:35) appears it scares people but I think (00:15:37) that it's a double-edged sword because (00:15:38) this kind of labeling makes parents (00:15:41) fearful of buying another product that (00:15:42) doesn't have that safety mark on it and (00:15:45) then they stick to the brand like if (00:15:46) it's got an organic in it or something (00:15:48) they then think it's Superior and then (00:15:49) they're loyal to that brand exactly the (00:15:51) other thing I'm struck by is how in the (00:15:54) states in the UK we sort of very a drift (00:15:58) from a food culture where we just know (00:16:00) what we're meant to do and I I've been (00:16:02) on holiday in Italy this summer and one (00:16:05) of the things you see there is like (00:16:06) there's a very strong food culture right (00:16:08) they're actually very intolerant to new (00:16:09) food because they're like they know (00:16:10) exactly how it's meant to be and that's (00:16:12) like how their grandparents grandparents (00:16:14) did it and they um fed with her Italian (00:16:17) Heritage is smiling and nodding with me (00:16:19) because she knows this is true but I'm (00:16:21) struck that you know as someone who um (00:16:24) both grew up in America and then here (00:16:26) you know generally we don't have any (00:16:28) confidence and I think as you quite (00:16:29) rightly said with our children we (00:16:31) particularly worry about this we (00:16:32) particularly worry about them when (00:16:33) they're younger because when they're (00:16:34) teenagers you don't have that much (00:16:35) control over what they do so you worry (00:16:37) but there's nothing you can do about it (00:16:39) and so I feel that you are particularly (00:16:40) vulnerable then to like I don't really (00:16:42) know what to do this is quite (00:16:44) complicated the first few years and then (00:16:46) there is this enormous amount of (00:16:48) commercial interest as you said with (00:16:49) people selling a lot of product which is (00:16:50) when the cycle starts that's when (00:16:52) parents get pulled into the ultra (00:16:53) processed food system because of that (00:16:55) reason go a step further and say that (00:16:56) the food companies know this and they (00:16:58) have targeted group because it's such a (00:17:00) vulnerable group like it's it's so (00:17:03) obvious how it's been machined when you (00:17:05) look at it when you really stand back (00:17:07) and look at that food aisle and for the (00:17:08) kids and it you know it literally says (00:17:10) ideal safe for finger feeding um ideal (00:17:14) for weaning 4 to 6 months 6 to8 months (00:17:16) 12 months plus mixture of vegetables now (00:17:18) I've worked with people oneon-one where (00:17:20) their children refuse to eat broccoli (00:17:22) for example um and it's because they've (00:17:24) never actually touched or felt or eaten (00:17:27) a whole broccoli and I've been at (00:17:28) restaurant where I've seen couples or (00:17:31) parents or caregivers who prefer to feed (00:17:34) their child from a pouch from their bag (00:17:35) then let them try what's on the plate at (00:17:37) the restaurant because they're just not (00:17:38) sure whether it's safe yeah it's fear of (00:17:41) choking there as well and different (00:17:42) things I think parents just with there's (00:17:44) no support for parents is there in the (00:17:47) states in the UK there's no one saying (00:17:49) right you've just had a baby you've come (00:17:51) out of hospital I'm going to show you (00:17:53) what happens at six months when you (00:17:55) start weaning I would go as far as to (00:17:56) say that we just all need to move back (00:17:58) in with our grandmas (00:18:00) like basically if n is around she will (00:18:02) say absolutely not just give the child (00:18:04) the ex but it is it's this like as (00:18:06) families now we do live in these you (00:18:08) know smaller households we often lose (00:18:11) touch with the rest of our family I (00:18:12) think you're right Jonathan it's the way (00:18:13) that we live socially culturally has (00:18:16) impacted a lot of food culture here and (00:18:18) in the US and it's like what we need to (00:18:20) do is actually start to rebuild our own (00:18:23) it doesn't have to be any particular (00:18:25) type I mean of course I'm Italian so for (00:18:27) me that's the best but it can be any (00:18:29) food culture it can be your own made up (00:18:31) food culture but it's really finding (00:18:34) what works for you and your household (00:18:36) and your family and letting you be the (00:18:39) decider you be the person who brings (00:18:40) this food into the household as opposed (00:18:42) to looking to advertising essentially (00:18:44) and food marketing to make those (00:18:46) decisions for you and I think if that's (00:18:48) a first step people take it's a very (00:18:50) powerful one and it will quickly change (00:18:52) your basket just one item a week if they (00:18:55) said it's small like small challenges (00:18:56) but we're talking weaning I mean if you (00:18:58) if you progress the conver a forwards (00:18:59) and if you're listening now and okay (00:19:01) you've already been there you've done (00:19:03) that you you've given your kids the (00:19:04) pouches because you believe they were (00:19:06) safe convenient options and I get it (00:19:08) sometimes they are great convenient (00:19:09) options but the majority of the time the (00:19:12) exposure is so key and it's not actually (00:19:14) too late it's more difficult but it's (00:19:16) not too late to start when they're four (00:19:19) five 6 7 with food exposure it's just (00:19:22) going to take longer and you have to (00:19:24) offer things alongside things they (00:19:26) already enjoy so an element of you (00:19:28) thinking right I'm a parent I did raise (00:19:30) my child in this way they go to school (00:19:32) with a lunchbox that is made up of (00:19:34) packeted items like left right and (00:19:36) Center I've got a Fruit Juicy drink in (00:19:39) there I've got one of those sugary (00:19:40) yogurts I've got a whole packet of chocy (00:19:43) items here I'm going to try and put in (00:19:45) every day even if it's rejected for a (00:19:47) certain amount of time I'm going to make (00:19:49) the effort to put in a homemade whole (00:19:51) meal pasta salad option instead of (00:19:53) buying the packeted version I was (00:19:54) putting in and it is going to be a bit (00:19:57) painful I'm not going to sugar coat (00:20:00) thatc the pun but you know I'm not going (00:20:02) to sugar coat it but it is possible but (00:20:04) it's going to take some grit and as the (00:20:05) parent and the caregiver it is actually (00:20:08) up to us because no one else is going to (00:20:09) help us do it yeah so I'd Love Actually (00:20:11) I think it's a brilliant transition (00:20:13) point and actually switch from this sort (00:20:16) of horror show that you're sharing with (00:20:18) us about this immense fraction like (00:20:20) three qus of all the food they're eating (00:20:22) is ultra processed food this sort of (00:20:23) food that didn't even exist 50 years ago (00:20:25) right so this profound change to okay (00:20:28) practically what can we do to improve (00:20:31) things could you start with like where (00:20:33) we are and what could people really do (00:20:36) to start to make a change so with two in (00:20:38) 100 lunch boxes being nutritionally (00:20:39) incomplete what that means with the (00:20:41) stats we've got is that they're not (00:20:43) hitting the first of all a protein a (00:20:46) carb a fat a vegetable you know the food (00:20:49) group so as a parent in your head (00:20:51) mentally every time you open that lunch (00:20:53) box you have got to think what is going (00:20:55) to fuel my child for the day ahead and (00:20:57) this is where fed's love of everything (00:20:59) fiber would come in but you want fiber (00:21:00) you want great quality carbs that (00:21:03) doesn't have to be expensive that just (00:21:05) means swapping your white pasta for your (00:21:06) brown pasta your white rice for your (00:21:08) brown rice and these are things that (00:21:10) don't need fancy equipment to cook shove (00:21:12) it in a sauce spin the night before cook (00:21:14) it put it in your lunch box for the next (00:21:16) day mix it in with a frozen sauce you've (00:21:18) made before the week before you know a (00:21:20) tomato sauce a Pasto sauce whatever it (00:21:22) may be sometimes that might be a shop (00:21:24) brought version but you know what whole (00:21:26) lot better to put it with the whole (00:21:27) grain pasta than the white pasta and (00:21:30) then you can work your way up to (00:21:31) swapping out the sources cuz as we said (00:21:33) that is a source of extra sugar and (00:21:34) hidden additives that often come in (00:21:36) bought sources you've got your carb hope (00:21:38) everyone's visualizing their (00:21:39) carbohydrate then you move over to a (00:21:41) palm siiz portion so for a child (00:21:43) obviously slightly smaller of protein (00:21:45) that could be chicken strips it could be (00:21:47) canned well fish is going to smell in (00:21:48) your child's lunchbox but you know what (00:21:50) some kids don't mind that and if you do (00:21:51) boil an egg please don't do what I did (00:21:54) and literally do it that morning because (00:21:56) it stinks and you do your child is not (00:21:58) going to be wanting to open up their (00:21:59) lunch box and have that eggy smell come (00:22:01) out so prep it at least a few hours in (00:22:03) advance let it cool and then package it (00:22:06) up protein can be tofu it can be a can (00:22:08) of beans you can roast beans the night (00:22:10) before turn them into crisps with olive (00:22:12) oil or something I know what I'm saying (00:22:14) everyone's thinking wow this sounds a (00:22:16) bit fancy but once you get into the (00:22:19) habit of visualizing the protein the (00:22:21) carb the vegetables which let's be (00:22:24) honest most kids don't want to just eat (00:22:25) steamed broccoli at that age in the (00:22:27) lunch box when they're at school hey (00:22:29) don't blame you try and Chuck that stuff (00:22:31) into the pasta add the peas into the (00:22:33) pasta add the sweet corn add the carrots (00:22:36) into that main bit or do some veggie (00:22:38) sticks with hummus it's a classic people (00:22:40) can't you can't go wrong and then the (00:22:42) yogurts try and go for the less sugary (00:22:44) options go for the original state and (00:22:46) then give them a pot of something to add (00:22:48) in even if it was an extra little bit of (00:22:51) honey you put in a lunch box maple syrup (00:22:53) or a jam that's less sugary to add that (00:22:56) to the yogurt than to buy a yogurt (00:22:59) that's already sweetened let's go back (00:23:01) to that 50 years ago we used to make (00:23:03) things with minimally processed stuff we (00:23:05) used to use butter sugar eggs mix it in (00:23:07) a bowl you know make something nice (00:23:09) nowadays we've skipped that process and (00:23:11) we've gone straight to the finished item (00:23:13) straight to this emulsified artificially (00:23:16) sweetened version of everything in a pot (00:23:19) whereas if you just added I think (00:23:20) parents are scared of sugar yet they (00:23:22) don't realize they're buying it but if (00:23:24) you actually put a bit of honey in and (00:23:25) then mix it into the yogurt a child (00:23:27) would love that or a few dark chocolate (00:23:28) like (00:23:29) um chip Chips dark chocolate chips dark (00:23:31) chocolate buttons I'd rather your kid (00:23:34) have a small handful of those to add in (00:23:36) which is still better and then they're (00:23:38) still going to go wow I love my lunchbox (00:23:40) and not everyone's got time to make (00:23:41) fancy homemade bars and energy balls I I (00:23:43) love that kind of stuff but that's an (00:23:46) example of a lunchbox that doesn't take (00:23:48) as much time to prep and it's a lot of (00:23:49) it's frozen frozen peas you add in (00:23:51) Frozen carrots sweet corn into the pasta (00:23:54) so it can be done I hope that visual (00:23:55) image has stayed with everyone of your (00:23:57) lunch box it sounds (00:23:59) beautiful it sounds like quite a lot (00:24:02) more work than I bought a bunch of stuff (00:24:05) from the grocery store and I threw it (00:24:07) all in the in the Box I can I can (00:24:09) imagine people listening and saying yeah (00:24:11) yeah yeah that's part of like the dream (00:24:12) life that I'd like to have but I'm (00:24:15) running around I've got a full-time job (00:24:17) I'm looking after the house and I'm (00:24:18) trying desperately to feed my children (00:24:21) well I don't know I've just come out of (00:24:22) some holidays when we're recording this (00:24:24) right so I have been packing packed (00:24:25) lunches a lot for all the various clubs (00:24:28) things you know all the things the kids (00:24:30) do in the summer holidays and honestly (00:24:32) it takes such little time to put this (00:24:35) lunch box together I actually timed (00:24:37) myself doing it one day CU I was like (00:24:39) this is feels really good like I got (00:24:40) into a groove right it took me seven (00:24:43) minutes children do get to have (00:24:45) favorites right so I find that for (00:24:47) example for my kids like my little (00:24:50) little one she loves apples so packing a (00:24:52) whole Apple in her lunch box is always (00:24:54) going to go I mean they love pasta (00:24:56) they're Italian of course they do but (00:24:58) they also love (00:24:59) you can get these really lovely flat (00:25:01) breads from the supermarket that aren't (00:25:03) Ultra processed or you can make them (00:25:05) yourself at home in a pan very quickly (00:25:07) by just whizzing a bass up together (00:25:09) honestly like smoked salmon bit of (00:25:12) avocado they love that some sometimes (00:25:15) it's cheese with a bit of tomato so (00:25:17) quick and easy just toast it in the pan (00:25:19) so these things are often once you get (00:25:21) into the the groove of it and you have (00:25:22) your natural yogurt I couldn't agree (00:25:24) more it's so so easy to make natural (00:25:26) yogurt delicious for kids however they (00:25:28) prefer it and dairy Alternatives you (00:25:31) know sore yogurt doesn't have to (00:25:32) obviously people with lactose (00:25:33) intolerance so you're not EA natur sure (00:25:35) it's it's just really a focus on buying (00:25:37) the natural version of the yogurt not (00:25:39) the flavored version and then just (00:25:41) building these lunch boxes up put (00:25:43) something that they will love in there (00:25:45) give variety of fruits and vegetables as (00:25:47) well like I always put veggie sticks (00:25:49) because they inevitably love them and (00:25:51) sometimes they'll eat all the cucumber (00:25:53) and no carrot sometimes it's all the (00:25:54) carrot all the cucumber and the celery (00:25:55) it depends but if you give children (00:25:57) variety and you Expos them to foods and (00:26:00) they have a choice then that day when (00:26:03) they're at school depending on how (00:26:04) hungry they feel or on what they fancy (00:26:07) they then have a choice to eat from but (00:26:08) you know that what they're choosing from (00:26:11) is good for them I've always said to (00:26:12) parents do you know exactly what's in (00:26:15) your freezer or in your cupboards (00:26:16) because if they have one designated (00:26:18) drawer at the top of their freezer I (00:26:19) think it's a quite useful hack for (00:26:20) parents and they fill it with those (00:26:23) flatbreads they brought in the (00:26:24) supermarket at the top so basically all (00:26:26) the carbs in one shelf the bases you (00:26:28) know all the meals they're about to (00:26:29) Chuck in the night before to save time (00:26:32) and then they can say well they can have (00:26:33) a pit of bread that day or a flatbread (00:26:35) that day then rice then a pasta and that (00:26:37) kind of builds the foundation of (00:26:38) everything they're going to Chuck in yes (00:26:40) and I think another really good tip is I (00:26:42) love that freezer hack I love freezers (00:26:44) um is actually sometimes children will (00:26:46) eat really well if you just invest in a (00:26:48) thermos so this changed again for my (00:26:51) eldest because she's not a huge fan of (00:26:52) cold food fair enough inter and so a (00:26:55) little thermos and in that is where I (00:26:57) would put the past with the greens uh (00:27:00) with the peas she just absolutely is so (00:27:03) happy with a little bit of thermos food (00:27:05) because it's warm and so actually that's (00:27:07) you hear about ice packs you don't hear (00:27:09) about putting that in right no and it's (00:27:10) like fair enough actually you know um so (00:27:13) that's another thing that for some (00:27:14) children and and for parents who just (00:27:17) run out of ideas for things that taste (00:27:18) nice when they're cold I think we should (00:27:19) T definitely touch on the ham sandwich (00:27:22) equation cuz I don't know what it's like (00:27:23) in the states is it is it is that a (00:27:26) classic over there a ham sandwich cooked (00:27:28) meat (00:27:29) various variety is a really important (00:27:31) part of the staple and I just think (00:27:34) that's where so many parents don't (00:27:35) realize the extra salt comes in they (00:27:37) don't realize that that type of meat in (00:27:40) particular is completely ultr processed (00:27:42) it's gone through so many stages to get (00:27:44) to where it's at and there are other (00:27:46) options that don't cost as much money (00:27:48) Superior options to put in in (00:27:50) replacement of that particular meat what (00:27:52) would you be suggesting um you can get (00:27:53) slices of chicken as well instead or (00:27:55) turkey if you're a meat eater if not (00:27:58) then think outside the box for your (00:27:59) lunch box so this is what I and it's (00:28:02) also cheaper if you smash up um (00:28:05) chickpeas into a base on a sandwich and (00:28:07) you could add red pepper if your kid (00:28:08) loves that or some cheese it can be (00:28:10) dairy free options as well of course and (00:28:13) it's really just thinking not every (00:28:15) sandwich has to just be ham and cheese (00:28:16) cuz that's what they're used to and they (00:28:18) probably won't notice the difference of (00:28:20) taste but we have to be honest about the (00:28:22) fact that consumption of that particular (00:28:25) item of food and that food group (00:28:27) processed Meats basically is just not (00:28:28) healthy and Toes smash chickpeas is (00:28:30) something you find that kids often are (00:28:32) willing I haven't tried that you haven't (00:28:33) tried it you have to it's almost like (00:28:35) essentially putting hummus in a sandwich (00:28:37) right I think that's where you should (00:28:38) start and it saves you money cuz it's (00:28:40) more cost effective than buying meat in (00:28:42) the first place and if they love it why (00:28:43) not try it give it a few days give or (00:28:46) take they might not like the texture (00:28:47) that's okay but we've got to try these (00:28:49) things you could try it at dinner one (00:28:51) night test if they like it or not and (00:28:52) you could do like a hot toasty sandwich (00:28:54) instead let me tell you about a product (00:28:57) I use each morning at breakfast to set (00:28:59) my day up for success I think it's (00:29:02) essential when I'm tired stressed and (00:29:05) need to feel my best which is pretty (00:29:08) much every 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(00:30:06) results were staggering and proved it (00:30:09) works you can try it now on zoe.com (00:30:13) da30 for our listeners we're offering a (00:30:16) free Zoe tin and dosing scoop with every (00:30:19) purchase order yours today at zoe.com (00:30:23) da30 I suspect both of you have very (00:30:26) well-trained children who are used to (00:30:27) eating really good diet and have been (00:30:30) through this and lots of people will be (00:30:31) listening and I feel it's a bit similar (00:30:33) to the situation with my son a few years (00:30:35) ago who'd been you know fed an excellent (00:30:38) diet of ultra processed food for a (00:30:39) decade and then I started to realize (00:30:41) actually this food thing apparently is (00:30:42) really important and not only that but I (00:30:44) think I was thinking about the fact that (00:30:47) actually even five years ago I wasn't (00:30:49) really thinking about Ultra processed (00:30:50) food so that's sort of been more quite (00:30:52) recently in in the zoia journey so if if (00:30:55) someone's listening to say well that's (00:30:56) fine but like my children basically are (00:30:58) used to only these packeted food they're (00:31:00) used to like white bread with a piece of (00:31:02) processed meat that's the only thing (00:31:03) they're willing to eat and if I give (00:31:05) them any of this they're just going to (00:31:07) starve and they won't be able to (00:31:09) function at school so I can't do this (00:31:12) are there Solutions I think this is a (00:31:13) good place to say that it it's different (00:31:15) with different age groups you're totally (00:31:17) right Jonathan so I think it's I've (00:31:19) worked with um teenagers as well and (00:31:21) it's it's trickier when it's been a (00:31:24) longer time and also when obviously (00:31:26) teenagers have way more autonomy me than (00:31:29) children who are younger so how do we (00:31:32) help this change I think Rihanna's (00:31:34) example of starting with one thing at (00:31:35) the time is really good but I like to (00:31:37) take uh a different approach in the home (00:31:40) so the way I think about it is if we (00:31:42) could be our own health Architects right (00:31:45) we could we can't really do anything (00:31:48) quickly about our food environment the (00:31:50) UK and the us both need to have massive (00:31:53) overhaul of policy of political will (00:31:55) there's a lot to do and that will take (00:31:57) time but let's keep doing it in the (00:31:59) meantime what we do have control over is (00:32:02) what we bring into our homes so in at a (00:32:04) very simple level children at some point (00:32:07) will spend time in the in the home (00:32:09) before school after school on the (00:32:11) weekends in the evenings so I always (00:32:14) encourage people to make their home like (00:32:16) the best possible food environment that (00:32:18) it can be but that includes a healthy (00:32:21) relationship with food so this does not (00:32:23) mean that you'll catch me making my own (00:32:25) homemade butter and banning all Ultra (00:32:28) food in my that is not healthy yeah the (00:32:30) other side of this coin is that I've (00:32:33) seen some influences online really (00:32:34) create fear amongst children you know (00:32:37) you will never eat that because it (00:32:38) contains XYZ and some there's one (00:32:40) influencer who actually gets his child (00:32:42) involved in the videos to say why she (00:32:44) doesn't buy I me it's awful to be honest (00:32:46) that is a very fast track to disordered (00:32:48) eating we have to create a healthy food (00:32:51) environment in the home including (00:32:53) understanding the difference between (00:32:54) certain foods and why we eat some foods (00:32:56) more often and why we eat some less (00:32:58) often often this is more about adding in (00:33:00) more good things rather than demonizing (00:33:02) the idea of any amount say what feeds (00:33:04) the belly bugs that's the yes my kids (00:33:06) love it so you know they'll say it's (00:33:09) yeah that's such a good book so they (00:33:10) literally they'll know Mommy I'm going (00:33:12) to have my chicken and that's going to (00:33:14) make me strong my muscles are going to (00:33:15) be strong and then they'll they'll like (00:33:18) eat I don't know I'll give them some ice (00:33:19) cream and they'll be like this ice cream (00:33:21) is giving me energy and it tastes good (00:33:22) you know so it's but they know no more (00:33:24) than maybe one or one a day or what (00:33:26) because they know it's a lot of sugar (00:33:28) you told them you've told them that (00:33:29) there's for the food the most important (00:33:31) food is there for their belly bugs their (00:33:32) muscles their growth their happiness (00:33:35) children understand from a very young (00:33:37) age what food can do for them so for (00:33:40) example my my youngest does love (00:33:42) chocolate like in a way it's hilarious (00:33:44) cuz my eldest doesn't touch it and so I (00:33:46) was like wow I've really got away with (00:33:47) that and then the second one arrived and (00:33:48) she was literally like (00:33:49) Tate so she will sometimes say to me (00:33:52) first thing in the morning Mommy can I (00:33:53) have some chocolate I'm like darling no (00:33:55) what do we need to have first she's like (00:33:57) breakfast first and she's only four (00:33:59) right they do understand if you explain (00:34:01) it to them with love and you don't (00:34:02) demonize food and say it's bad they (00:34:04) understand but build that home (00:34:06) environment where the majority of the (00:34:07) food is especially at eye level children (00:34:10) will open the fridge teenagers (00:34:11) definitely teenagers will see everything (00:34:13) they will open cupboards they will open (00:34:15) drawers what is the easiest food to find (00:34:17) in your home is it nuts and seeds is it (00:34:20) fresh fruit is it a fruit bowl is it (00:34:22) yogurt is it eggs or do you have I've (00:34:25) seen drawers of snacks the street (00:34:27) cupboards yeah always a treat draw it's (00:34:29) a huge psychological thing people grew (00:34:31) up with it every Friday night was their (00:34:33) takeaway night or every Saturday these (00:34:35) habitual habits you have to reshape your (00:34:37) home to combat those habitual habits and (00:34:40) you could try half half like if you've (00:34:41) got a particularly difficult child that (00:34:43) will only have that white bread sandwich (00:34:45) one side is the brown bread one side is (00:34:47) the white bread this is what you're (00:34:49) getting today this is what I've made (00:34:51) just look at the wh side when you eat it (00:34:53) and do you know what it's going to take (00:34:55) a little bit of tough love but like you (00:34:58) say if there's nothing to grab that (00:35:00) chocolate bar they always have isn't in (00:35:01) the drawer and it's replaced with a (00:35:03) healthier well still high in sugar but (00:35:05) cereal bar version that's one switch (00:35:08) that you've made they will then start (00:35:09) eating cuz you've B it my personal (00:35:11) experience has been it's this (00:35:13) understanding about their microbiome (00:35:15) that has been by far the most (00:35:17) transformational and that's true you (00:35:19) know for both my kids Al my son is very (00:35:21) grown up he's you know he really (00:35:24) controls what his diet is he's got much (00:35:26) more interested in his own physique he's (00:35:28) now bigger than me like he's going to (00:35:30) the gym and so I think he is now much (00:35:32) more interested in food as a way that it (00:35:33) supports him getting stronger and all (00:35:36) the rest of it what's interesting is (00:35:39) that you know both he and my little girl (00:35:42) have really bought into this idea that I (00:35:43) need to eat this food that is for my (00:35:45) good bugs and I think that is something (00:35:47) that is totally different from the way (00:35:49) that I thought about food as a child CU (00:35:52) it has this idea that it's like it's not (00:35:54) just like what my parents are bothering (00:35:56) me about it's this idea I've got all of (00:35:57) these like little things inside me and (00:35:59) it's a bit like having a dog or (00:36:00) something right like I've got to feed it (00:36:02) that's been by far the sort of (00:36:05) strongest argument for eating things (00:36:07) that sort of matches up and that they (00:36:09) seem to buy into rather than just it's (00:36:11) yet another thing where your parents are (00:36:12) forcing you to do something and you just (00:36:14) want to resist and I think that when we (00:36:16) think about meal times Jonathan so (00:36:17) creating that space to share a family (00:36:19) meal I know that now it's much rarer so (00:36:21) when we look at research of how often (00:36:23) people share for meals it's like (00:36:24) slightly falling off a cliff I can't do (00:36:26) it during the week you know no way with (00:36:28) my husband's job my job and my family (00:36:30) Dynamic we can do it in the week so we (00:36:32) have to we make time at the weekend (00:36:33) weekend so it's nice to create that time (00:36:35) if it's once a week that's still better (00:36:37) than nothing but in that family meal (00:36:39) setting giving children the choice to (00:36:42) pick what they want to put on their (00:36:43) plate so actually just saying like (00:36:45) here's some vegetables here's some (00:36:46) chicken or some whatever meat you're (00:36:49) having or fish so my household is a big (00:36:51) um salmon household they love salmon my (00:36:53) kids so do I so put put it out and let (00:36:56) them serve themselves and just see what (00:36:57) happen happens because quite often what (00:37:00) they do is dictated by us you're wearing (00:37:02) this you're going to school you're (00:37:04) seeing this friend today this is you (00:37:06) know they don't have much choice in life (00:37:08) and so often their want for Independence (00:37:11) comes through their choices with their (00:37:13) food you know I work with people they (00:37:15) say oh my child would never eat broccoli (00:37:17) or they would never eat sweet corn or (00:37:19) I've never seen them eat a bowl of pasta (00:37:22) with tomato sauce before but then you (00:37:24) put them in a setting where they're (00:37:25) sharing a meal with their friends (00:37:26) they've got a choice of what to eat eat (00:37:28) and they have a variety of foods to (00:37:29) choose from and they're eating (00:37:30) everything pimp them up right like (00:37:32) pizzas if you put them on the table you (00:37:34) can add extra toppings to a piz eating (00:37:36) food together is wonderful that's layer (00:37:39) yeah I think if you've you've listed (00:37:40) chocolate as a good example but crisps (00:37:42) or um potato chips or you know however (00:37:45) you address it you cannot say to a child (00:37:48) we're just not going to have those again (00:37:50) you know some the psychology like you (00:37:52) said of those particular items but there (00:37:54) are lesser of two evils in those camps (00:37:57) when you look at the ingredient list on (00:37:58) the back and actually you should say (00:38:00) right well we're going to have this (00:38:01) particular brand your favorite one maybe (00:38:03) once every week instead of having it in (00:38:05) the house every day so you don't need to (00:38:07) go cold turkey and be like I'm never (00:38:08) going to have this in the house ever (00:38:10) again just be strategic it's the weekend (00:38:12) you can have this but actually for the (00:38:15) rest of the week this isn't going to be (00:38:16) in our cupboards now this week this is (00:38:18) the option instead and slowly you are (00:38:21) the I think it's really empowering (00:38:22) parents and giving them confidence you (00:38:25) know really holding their hand and just (00:38:26) saying like you just said (00:38:28) put put it down on the table Yeah they (00:38:31) will come back because they will be (00:38:32) hungry I mean our job is to provide the (00:38:34) best food environment we can and their (00:38:37) job is to exercise their freedom to (00:38:39) choose what to eat but if we're creating (00:38:41) a healthy food environment then the (00:38:43) choices they have are healthier as (00:38:45) simple as that can I move us on to (00:38:47) breakfast now yes um and I I I was just (00:38:51) thinking about an experience I had so I (00:38:54) um took my kids away to something called (00:38:56) Center Parks so it's sort of place you (00:38:58) go away it's very kids oriented you sort (00:39:00) of stay in a and some accommodation and (00:39:04) I went to like the little food shop it (00:39:06) was quite eye openening to me because (00:39:07) I'm in a different like grocery store (00:39:08) from the normal one so you sort of you (00:39:09) don't know where you're going and you (00:39:11) pay attention it's quite small and what (00:39:13) I struck by it's about half this store (00:39:14) is basically full of breakfast cereal (00:39:16) and it's completely shocking so (00:39:18) basically it's almost all for kids in (00:39:19) this store all these row after row of (00:39:23) cereals that have massive Health claims (00:39:27) across all of them about how um you know (00:39:29) there's like Cheerios telling you about (00:39:32) um you know the whole grains it has and (00:39:34) like these Kellogg things with like all (00:39:36) the vitamins it had and just (00:39:38) generally they look like health foods (00:39:40) that I should be giving my kids and I (00:39:42) have listened to enough of these (00:39:43) podcasts about Ultra processed foods to (00:39:45) know that they are not the fortification (00:39:48) thing is like a double-edged sword (00:39:51) because it is so important for kids that (00:39:55) aren't getting those homecooked meals (00:39:57) that aren't getting parents that are (00:39:59) nourishing or thinking because they just (00:40:00) haven't had the opportunity or they're (00:40:02) not educated to to get a source of (00:40:04) calcium in or iron in particular is so (00:40:06) important if you're looking at iron (00:40:08) requirements so when you see those on (00:40:10) the packets I wouldn't say that's the (00:40:12) worst thing in the world I actually I'm (00:40:14) pro- fortifying foods that I think (00:40:16) children consume for a beneficial you (00:40:18) know growth and development but like you (00:40:22) said which one you pick you can have a (00:40:24) fortified Frosty cereal that's full of (00:40:27) so much sugar but it doesn't it (00:40:29) disguises it kind of detracts from the (00:40:32) actual problem with the packet which is (00:40:34) the sugar and the salt and the additive (00:40:36) so it's so deceptive it tricks you it (00:40:38) tricks the consumer into thinking oh (00:40:40) iron or calcium whereas there's actually (00:40:42) a blander version of that cereal (00:40:44) probably further down the aisle it still (00:40:45) has that fortification that's one point (00:40:48) to discuss yeah and I think you know it (00:40:50) is a bit of a shocker when you look at (00:40:52) Children's breakfast generally quite a (00:40:55) lot of people find that giving children (00:40:57) cereal first thing in the morning and (00:40:58) then going to school it's quick it's (00:41:00) easy you don't have to cook um but (00:41:03) there's a really a few things to (00:41:04) consider I think first of all it's very (00:41:06) unlikely that your child will be (00:41:07) satiated and actually have enough (00:41:10) nutrition from that bowl it's (00:41:11) interesting if you look at the packets (00:41:14) themselves the cereal companies have to (00:41:16) put on that it's part of a breakfast (00:41:18) they'll have like a bowl of cereal plus (00:41:20) an egg plus a piece of fruit then you're (00:41:23) looking at something that's a bit more (00:41:24) like a meal so I think the first thing (00:41:26) to say is I don't think demonizing (00:41:28) breakfast cereals is necessarily the way (00:41:29) to go but certainly don't consider them (00:41:32) a full meal also you know choose one (00:41:35) that is blander choose one that doesn't (00:41:37) have the Golden Honey Nut crunchy crisp (00:41:40) because and the Caron on the front (00:41:43) honestly like not helping at all so (00:41:45) things like wheater bcks so these are (00:41:47) like the shredded Wheats things like BR (00:41:49) flakes brand flak they're much more (00:41:51) boring 100% um but they actually when (00:41:54) you look at the ingredients system when (00:41:56) you think about them in terms of what (00:41:57) they're offering very nutritionally it's (00:41:58) a much better picture than your honey (00:42:01) loops and your fruit loops and your (00:42:03) frosties I was brought up to believe (00:42:05) that you are meant to eat cereal for (00:42:07) breakfast you know I think growing up in (00:42:08) the states it's almost like it's like a (00:42:11) nutritional law that you have to eat (00:42:14) milk and (00:42:15) cereal breakfast cereal should not be (00:42:18) your breakfast every day so even on the (00:42:20) days where shreddy do feature on your (00:42:22) breakfast it's that plus a piece of (00:42:25) fruit some yogurt or an egg it cannot be (00:42:27) just that and it really shouldn't be (00:42:28) every day so there is breakfast Jonathan (00:42:31) as you know I'm very passionate about (00:42:32) breakfast because it's the meal of the (00:42:34) day where we have usually have the most (00:42:35) control and it's definitely one of the (00:42:37) meals where our children yeah you see (00:42:40) them before they go off so why not make (00:42:42) them something that you can both enjoy (00:42:44) together whether that is like a yogurt (00:42:46) bowl with fruits with nuts with seeds (00:42:48) maybe sprinkle some Cheerios as a Topper (00:42:50) to that if you really have to but wraps (00:42:52) what about Savory things at sandwiches (00:42:53) wraps think outside the box we're just (00:42:56) as well are a wonderful for breakfast (00:42:58) like dip your eggs in an apple you're (00:42:59) good to go but also I love making (00:43:02) especially on the weekends my children (00:43:03) love pancakes yeah me too children do (00:43:06) there is so many ways that you can make (00:43:07) pancakes absolute nutritional (00:43:09) powerhouses so like we I know we have (00:43:12) one on our Zoe Instagram there's a (00:43:14) really great recipe for pancakes but I (00:43:16) personally just love putting banana some (00:43:18) oats some eggs blend them together (00:43:22) sometimes I'll put in a bit of cinnamon (00:43:24) sometimes I'll put a bit of pear in I do (00:43:26) the green veg cuz I can get away with it (00:43:28) I'm just saying parents listening that (00:43:29) mine are only four and two so I can (00:43:31) still hide vegetables and pancakes you (00:43:33) probably can't do that but I make green (00:43:35) ones well I've made pink with beetroot (00:43:37) that went down an absolute storm and (00:43:39) also this is the age where smoothies (00:43:41) actually can offer a real solution (00:43:44) especially for parents if you're really (00:43:45) struggling to get your child to have a (00:43:46) diversity of fruits at this age or (00:43:49) vegetables smoothies can offer really (00:43:52) good addition to a breakfast but the (00:43:54) real important thing with smoothies is (00:43:55) to remember what you're putting in so (00:43:58) have some CFE have some yogurt as a base (00:43:59) in there carbohydrate have some nuts in (00:44:02) there and it can't just all be super (00:44:04) sweet fruits because then you're just (00:44:05) making fruit juice so really think of it (00:44:07) exactly as you mentioned earlier when (00:44:08) you're building a meal are there (00:44:10) carbohydrates are there healthy fats in (00:44:12) there putting avocado in your smoothie (00:44:14) is one of the simplest hacks ever it's (00:44:15) creamy it doesn't it's quite Bland it (00:44:17) doesn't change your taste so there's (00:44:19) lots of other foods for breakfast for (00:44:22) children parents don't need to fear (00:44:24) carbs either I think there's two (00:44:25) messages out there like they're like (00:44:26) well I want to give cereal but I've (00:44:28) heard that now I shouldn't give my (00:44:30) children any carbohydrates in the (00:44:32) morning to start the day but actually (00:44:33) it's our it's our brain's preferred (00:44:34) source of fuel and if it's the correct (00:44:36) type of carb I always say Quantity and (00:44:38) quality the two cues that's what you (00:44:41) need to think of every time you go in (00:44:42) the shop and you see bread or you see (00:44:43) cereal quality quantity that means whole (00:44:46) grain how much porage also we haven't (00:44:48) talked about por por is wonderful as (00:44:50) breast it's the best thing in the world (00:44:52) so easy and children are growing (00:44:53) Jonathan so when when parents are like (00:44:55) oh I'm really worried about giving my (00:44:56) child too much carbohydrate right now (00:44:58) unless there of course are children and (00:45:00) more children nowadays struggling with (00:45:02) overweight and obesity or they have a (00:45:04) condition where they can't have as where (00:45:05) they can't have as much but where your (00:45:07) child is you know growing normally and (00:45:10) actually you don't have any cause for (00:45:11) concern at the moment it's absolutely (00:45:13) important for them to have enough (00:45:14) carbohydrate to fuel their growth and (00:45:16) their activity children are way more (00:45:17) active than than we are their energy (00:45:19) requirements they burn more than we do (00:45:21) as adults at a certain stage of life so (00:45:24) we actually have to give them so much (00:45:26) they do need eat carbohydrates funny I (00:45:28) see this with my my son over the last (00:45:30) year who's basically grown about 6 in (00:45:33) and he basically eats twice as much as (00:45:35) me enormous am of carbs there's like not (00:45:38) an ounce of body fat on him at this (00:45:39) point because he's just like burning (00:45:41) this and growing so fast so I totally (00:45:42) see what you're talking about right type (00:45:44) he clearly needs but it's so important (00:45:46) Jonathan because there are voices online (00:45:48) that are telling people to not feed (00:45:50) their children carbs in the morning and (00:45:51) give them bacon please awful don't give (00:45:53) your children processed meat ands (00:45:55) saturated fats first thing in the (00:45:56) morning instead of (00:45:58) it's wild I would love to switch now to (00:46:01) trying to answer some more of our (00:46:03) audience questions we had a very long (00:46:05) list and this has been so fascinating (00:46:07) that I feel bad that I've let it run on (00:46:08) longer than I should we're not going to (00:46:09) answer all of them so let's try and see (00:46:11) if we can be quite Punchy because (00:46:14) otherwise I'm going to be in trou with (00:46:15) all the listeners whose questions we (00:46:16) don't answer maybe something with ranan (00:46:20) if my child needs to lose weight should (00:46:22) I put them on a diet not a diet no but (00:46:26) you should start looking at the quality (00:46:27) of their nutrition really you started (00:46:30) with a really complex question with so (00:46:32) much Nuance um relationships of food are (00:46:35) everything for children growing up and (00:46:37) you do not want to impact that but (00:46:39) equally if you've noticed your child (00:46:40) needs to be looking at their weight (00:46:42) start looking at the quality of their (00:46:43) diet the fiber (00:46:45) content look at that and seek advice and (00:46:48) help and support one to one from a (00:46:50) nutrition professional yes from someone (00:46:51) that's registered the answer is no but (00:46:53) think about the quality of the food (00:46:55) because you do need to address it flip (00:46:57) side (00:46:58) if my child tells me she's not hungry (00:47:00) should I force her to eat and maybe I (00:47:02) can just extend that I mean I definitely (00:47:04) remember you know grandparents where I (00:47:06) was like well you need to finish what's (00:47:07) on your plate and you're not allowed to (00:47:08) get down unless it's all finished no (00:47:12) learning to honor your child's cues for (00:47:14) hunger and for satiety is really (00:47:16) important when we deny that child's (00:47:18) hunger or satiety they learn that their (00:47:21) body signaling isn't correct so if a (00:47:24) child says they are hungry believe that (00:47:27) they are hungry and offer them a healthy (00:47:29) food if they say they're full up believe (00:47:31) them and tell them that's fine if you (00:47:33) are hungry again this is the food that (00:47:35) is going to be available for you so that (00:47:38) way we know that they are not using that (00:47:40) signaling to try and switch the food (00:47:42) necessarily it's really important that (00:47:44) we honor those signals because children (00:47:46) are very honest and transparent with how (00:47:49) they feel so recognize it but don't just (00:47:51) rush in and say okay here's this other (00:47:52) meal here's this other meal Ranna should (00:47:54) my child have a cup of milk every day no (00:47:58) over the age of two no no need and (00:48:00) actually um marketing was a huge role (00:48:03) with this and in the dairy industry dare (00:48:06) I say um no there's plenty of other (00:48:08) nutrition sources of calcium and things (00:48:10) that you think you'd be getting just (00:48:11) from that food item alone my child (00:48:15) craves sweet Ultra processed food should (00:48:19) I try to curb their craving how so I (00:48:23) think what we mentioned so really (00:48:25) building a home environment where the (00:48:26) choice of food for them is as healthy as (00:48:29) possible knowing that they'll probably (00:48:31) be be able to access the sweeter Ultra (00:48:33) processed foods outside the home start (00:48:34) at home give them lots of variety this (00:48:36) is where baking at home could really (00:48:38) come in handy as well make some cupcakes (00:48:40) in 10 minutes at home and see how they (00:48:42) prefer those um so try and find ways to (00:48:45) offer foods that are enjoyable but that (00:48:49) don't that aren't harmful for their (00:48:51) health basically and I think I've got a (00:48:53) related one which I definitely feel and (00:48:56) think about and should I get my child an (00:48:58) ice cream when we're (00:49:00) out um so it depends how frequently you (00:49:04) go to this one place where the ice cream (00:49:05) van is let's say if you're going to this (00:49:08) same park every single day or every (00:49:10) weekend it becomes a habit and therefore (00:49:12) you need to embrace hey that's where (00:49:14) they're getting their ice cream that (00:49:15) week and you go with it and you let them (00:49:17) enjoy that moment however if you go to (00:49:19) this park every day in this ice cream (00:49:21) van is there every single day that's a (00:49:23) problem and that's going to be a really (00:49:25) difficult one for your child because (00:49:26) they won't understand why am I not (00:49:28) allowed it on this day but I can have it (00:49:30) on this day so you need to be very (00:49:33) careful where your boundaries Lie from (00:49:35) the outset having an ice cream a week is (00:49:37) totally fine one or two but daily ice (00:49:39) cream not a good idea I think this is a (00:49:42) very live one I think one of the things (00:49:43) anyone who has children knows is like as (00:49:45) soon as you do something like twice it's (00:49:47) basically routine and three times it's (00:49:49) like well now that has to happen forever (00:49:50) more right and you've got the music on (00:49:52) the ice cream I mean come on they're (00:49:54) very smart enticing actually I'm make (00:49:57) ice cream at home but not like (00:49:58) complicated freeze bananas I do Nana (00:50:01) what's it called banana ice free bananas (00:50:04) then blend them up with some peanut (00:50:05) butter no but it tastes like it tastes (00:50:07) great and also make ice lollies just by (00:50:09) putting the Smoothie into a mold and (00:50:11) then that way it's not about ice cream (00:50:13) isn't allowed it's the quality of this (00:50:15) ice cream isn't as good as the quality (00:50:16) of the one we have at home so we're (00:50:18) going to have it at home so again the (00:50:20) conversation spins to ice cream isn't (00:50:22) this like golden food that you can never (00:50:24) have and it's more about quality I think (00:50:26) teaching children quality is really (00:50:27) important it is cuz they'll know the (00:50:29) difference what about Grandparents does (00:50:32) it matter if they indulge my kids and (00:50:34) break all the rules that I set at my (00:50:36) house there's a theory that grandmothers (00:50:38) hold massive power I would highly (00:50:41) recommend laying the ground rules with (00:50:44) grandparents early on so it's going to (00:50:47) happen that your mother-in-law or your (00:50:49) mother or grandparent will come in with (00:50:51) like a tray of ultra processed something (00:50:54) like I my I love my mother-in-law I (00:50:56) she's amazing my mother-in-law does the (00:50:57) same though she won't mind me saying (00:50:59) she's like why haven't you given him (00:51:00) chocolate yet why haven't you g this (00:51:01) these too came in with this tray of the (00:51:04) most Ultra process cupcakes I have ever (00:51:06) seen in my life I know the on and I was (00:51:09) like thank you so much and then not in (00:51:11) front of the children not like in (00:51:14) private just be like thank you so much (00:51:15) it's really thoughtful in the future oh (00:51:17) it would be great if you could bring XYZ (00:51:19) and listen some people don't have a (00:51:20) great relationship with their the (00:51:21) grandparents and the family some people (00:51:23) do so if you have a good relationship (00:51:25) talk to them with love and just explain (00:51:28) this is what I'm trying to do with a (00:51:29) nutrition I've heard this isn't great so (00:51:30) I would love if you could do this next (00:51:32) time could you bring XYZ and actually (00:51:34) know since then she's been bringing (00:51:35) berries my kids love berries so there (00:51:37) you go that's a nice conversation what (00:51:39) if you don't get on with the (00:51:40) grandparents and I hear this all the (00:51:42) time and it is a dreaded thing isn't it (00:51:44) where your friend's kids go to the (00:51:45) grandparents house and they plow them (00:51:47) with harabo yes yes or with like you (00:51:49) know barbecue flavored crisps so when if (00:51:52) that's the case remember that once in a (00:51:54) while isn't going to be problematic if (00:51:56) that grandpar is looking after your (00:51:58) child regularly then there's going to (00:52:00) have to be a conversation about (00:52:02) providing food and in some cases with (00:52:03) some of my clients they end up sending (00:52:05) the food in for the child to take to the (00:52:07) grandparent so that there's at least a (00:52:08) good nutritional base but really talking (00:52:11) communication's key here so if you can (00:52:14) just establish some ground rules about (00:52:16) the kinds of foods that you're feeding (00:52:18) your child and why not putting any shame (00:52:20) on their choices or on their knowledge (00:52:22) and education but just bring that with (00:52:24) love and most of the time grandparents (00:52:27) also want the best for the children it's (00:52:28) the same as Nursery settings though we (00:52:30) have I know we don't have time but Child (00:52:31) Care settings it's so hard because the (00:52:35) kids are exposed at ages not to three (00:52:37) tons of sugar when other parents bring (00:52:39) it in and anyway that's or whe where (00:52:42) there are regulations for primary for (00:52:43) nurseries for food so it's a wild west (00:52:46) out there yeah thank you both so much (00:52:47) I'm going to try and do a quick uh (00:52:49) summary and um and keep me (00:52:52) honest I think we started with just this (00:52:55) shocking statistic the three4 of the (00:52:58) food that our children are eating is (00:52:59) ultra processed food and this is (00:53:01) completely different from the food that (00:53:03) any of us were eating 50 years ago that (00:53:06) not just is it Ultra processed but (00:53:08) there's an enormous amount of sugar that (00:53:10) is hiding in all of this food and I I (00:53:12) think I heard you say there are like 12 (00:53:14) teaspoons of sugar in a lunch box which (00:53:17) is sort of terrifying right you would (00:53:19) never add that if you're making it (00:53:20) yourself and it's all hidden and the (00:53:22) other thing you said is it tends to be (00:53:24) hidden in the food that makes the (00:53:25) biggest Health claims so you're saying (00:53:27) you're walking down the aisle of the (00:53:28) grocery store you've seen all this food (00:53:29) that says you know high in protein or (00:53:32) added sugar this thing that's great for (00:53:34) you know 5year olds whatever and those (00:53:36) are the things that have the most sugar (00:53:38) added into it as opposed to the food (00:53:41) where we know about it but it's okay (00:53:44) there are things you can do and we (00:53:45) talked a bit about at lunch I think this (00:53:47) idea that you can make one change at a (00:53:49) time to steadily improve it I think is (00:53:50) wonderful rather than saying you got to (00:53:51) fix it all at once some very practical (00:53:54) advice like sort of swapping into Brown (00:53:56) Pastor or brown rice was quite easy (00:53:58) shifts mixing the veg into the main meal (00:54:00) I thought it was really smart you it's (00:54:02) like hiding it in the pasta it's a bit (00:54:03) like what I used to do at school to hide (00:54:05) the food before you threw it away but (00:54:06) you're saying I actually get it to eat (00:54:07) them and I thought this brilliant hack (00:54:09) that I had her before which is give them (00:54:11) natural yogurt so like with no Ultra (00:54:13) processed food in it and then just allow (00:54:15) them to put something really sweet and (00:54:16) sugary in it's actually going to be much (00:54:18) better than the yogurt you were probably (00:54:20) buying last week that you thought was (00:54:22) really good for them and was healthy but (00:54:25) actually wasn't and this is as R just (00:54:27) adds L fun as well for breakfast your (00:54:30) children do not need to eat cereal it is (00:54:33) okay for them to eat something else and (00:54:35) indeed I think fascinating federi was (00:54:37) saying they may well not be getting (00:54:39) enough energy just from the cereal and (00:54:41) the milk so think about what else you (00:54:43) can put around that is actually going to (00:54:44) be more like a regular meal and and fill (00:54:47) them up and then we talked about just (00:54:49) the challenges I think of getting your (00:54:52) children to end up with a healthy (00:54:55) relationship with food and be able to (00:54:57) manage these challenges around us and (00:54:59) therefore you shouldn't be trying to ban (00:55:01) the things that are fun right absolutely (00:55:03) it's totally fine to have ice cream but (00:55:05) you don't want to be in a situation (00:55:06) where they're having ice cream every (00:55:08) single day and you definitely don't want (00:55:09) them to be having like their terrible (00:55:10) Ultra processed ice cream every day (00:55:12) because you created this habit so you're (00:55:14) trying to find that um middle ground and (00:55:17) I think you know last thing that stuck (00:55:18) on my mind was trying to give your (00:55:21) children choices about what to eat it (00:55:23) feels like that's come up in lots of (00:55:24) things you said that they have so little (00:55:25) control in life life and actually this (00:55:27) pushing against food is partly just (00:55:29) trying to have more control and so if (00:55:30) you can give them more choices that's a (00:55:32) bit I'm thinking about like it's almost (00:55:33) like getting to pick at the buffet isn't (00:55:35) it it's like okay like I get actually (00:55:38) maybe I'm quite happy to eat some of (00:55:39) these things rather than saying you've (00:55:41) only got this one thing this is all you (00:55:42) can have and making it into a huge fight (00:55:45) y yeah brilliant summary wow very good (00:55:48) wonderful thank you so much I think that (00:55:50) was fascinating I know we will have many (00:55:52) follow-up questions so I hope we can (00:55:54) tempt you back for for a follow-up part (00:55:56) two can't wait teenagers next yeah I (00:55:58) can't wait for that actually we haven't (00:55:59) even talked about menstruation no we (00:56:01) haven't we didn't do iron enough as well (00:56:02) so many things thank you so much (00:56:05) thanks I really enjoyed having Ranna and (00:56:08) Federica on the podcast today I hope you (00:56:11) learned something new my biggest (00:56:13) takeaway is that school lunch can really (00:56:15) Empower my children to grow their own (00:56:17) relationship to (00:56:19) food now if you listen to the show (00:56:21) regularly you already believe that (00:56:22) changing how you eat can transform your (00:56:25) health but you can only do so much with (00:56:28) general advice from a weekly (00:56:30) podcast if you want to feel much better (00:56:32) now and be on the path to live many more (00:56:34) healthy years you need something more (00:56:38) and that's why more than a 100,000 (00:56:39) members trust Zoe each day to help them (00:56:42) make the smartest food (00:56:44) choices combining our world leading (00:56:46) science with your Zoe test results Zoe (00:56:48) is your daily companion to Better Health (00:56:50) for life so how does it work Zoe (00:56:53) membership starts with at home testing (00:56:55) to understand your unique body then (00:56:58) Zoe's app is your health coach using (00:57:00) weekly check-ins and daily guidance to (00:57:02) help you 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