You’re Watching the End of the World in Real Time – Eric Weinstein (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) Jeffrey Epstein was a product of at (00:00:02) least one element of the intelligence (00:00:04) community. I would bet money on it. (00:00:06) >> The CIA, FBI. (00:00:07) >> I don't know who ran him, but he knew a (00:00:09) tremendous amount about my scientific (00:00:10) work in ways that he wasn't supposed to. (00:00:12) Very powerful people told me I needed to (00:00:14) meet him. He certainly was not a (00:00:16) financeier in any standard sense. That (00:00:18) was a cover story. I need to know what (00:00:20) this thing was. And I want to know why (00:00:22) people don't investigate it. I want to (00:00:23) know why nobody asks for the filings. (00:00:26) But I think more than anything, we don't (00:00:28) trust our scientists because our (00:00:29) scientists are the most powerful people (00:00:32) in our society. (00:00:33) >> So, do you think science is being (00:00:34) controlled so that it can be used in a (00:00:36) way that's beneficial? (00:00:38) >> Let's put it this way. Eric Weinstein is (00:00:40) a renowned mathematician (00:00:41) >> and one of the most fearless and (00:00:42) provocative thinkers of our time. (00:00:44) >> He dissects the failures of science, (00:00:46) exposes elite networks, and proposes (00:00:48) bold new theories that could save (00:00:50) humanity. (00:00:50) >> So, top of mind for me at the moment is (00:00:52) the apocalypse and tropical fruit. I'm (00:00:55) not kidding. You're looking at the end, (00:00:56) man. (00:00:57) >> Do you really think this is the start of (00:00:58) the end? (00:00:59) >> Of course it is. Look at how much has (00:01:01) happened in the last month. And the big (00:01:03) problem is that we share one atmosphere. (00:01:05) All of humanity's eggs are in one (00:01:07) basket. (00:01:07) >> So, what needs to happen to get me a (00:01:09) future? (00:01:10) >> So, I think Elon is 100% right. Got to (00:01:12) get to another sphere. But he's being a (00:01:14) complete when it comes to science and (00:01:16) he's being a total hero when it comes to (00:01:17) engineering. But you can't engineer your (00:01:19) way to the stars with the science we (00:01:20) have. The physics opens the universe to (00:01:23) you. But we have a real problem. A new (00:01:25) idea in physics changes the balance of (00:01:27) power in the world. The desire of our (00:01:30) government is to get the science to give (00:01:32) us as much power as possible. But then (00:01:35) they castrate the scientists, belittle (00:01:37) them, destroy their families, their (00:01:39) lives, their ability to earn because our (00:01:41) government isn't good enough to keep its (00:01:43) own secrets. (00:01:44) >> Do you think (00:01:44) >> my employer was a special informant to (00:01:46) the FBI? There's a doctrine that says (00:01:48) physicists don't have free speech. (00:01:50) They're stopping the world's most (00:01:52) important group from making progress. (00:01:54) Physics is the only thing that's going (00:01:56) to get your future. So, let's talk about (00:01:58) this. (00:02:00) I see messages all the time in the (00:02:02) comments section that some of you didn't (00:02:03) realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you (00:02:05) could do me a favor and double check if (00:02:07) you're a subscriber to this channel, (00:02:08) that would be tremendously appreciated. (00:02:10) It's the simple, it's the free thing (00:02:12) that anybody that watches this show (00:02:13) frequently can do to help us here to (00:02:15) keep everything going in this show in (00:02:16) the trajectory it's on. So, please do (00:02:18) double check if you've subscribed and uh (00:02:20) thank you so much because in a strange (00:02:22) way you are you're part of our history (00:02:24) and you're on this journey with us and I (00:02:26) appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank (00:02:27) you. (00:02:29) [Music] (00:02:31) >> Eric, you are a particularly captivating (00:02:34) individual for the very fact that you (00:02:37) grace so many different intellectual (00:02:39) subjects. As we sit here now having this (00:02:42) conversation, I want to know what (00:02:46) subjects at this moment in in time are (00:02:48) occupying most of your thoughts and most (00:02:50) of your thinking. We have uh a strong (00:02:54) listenership here and I think the (00:02:57) responsibility that I have meeting (00:02:58) someone like you is to understand what (00:03:00) we should be talking about. (00:03:03) >> So top of mind for me at the moment is (00:03:05) tropical fruit and physics. (00:03:07) >> I'm not kidding. (00:03:08) >> Tropical fruit and physics. (00:03:10) >> Yeah. Yeah, but that's just because (00:03:11) you're catching me on a particular day. (00:03:13) >> Okay. (00:03:13) >> And uh my my local um 99 Ranch Market (00:03:17) ran out of Rambutan, which I'm addicted (00:03:19) to. (00:03:21) >> No, I have serious issues with tropical (00:03:23) fruit. I'm I'm completely obsessed by (00:03:24) it. (00:03:25) >> What about this week? What What's been (00:03:26) occupying most of your thoughts this (00:03:28) week? (00:03:28) >> Well, the apocalypse and physics. (00:03:32) >> Why' you say the apocalypse? (00:03:34) >> Um (00:03:35) >> and what do you mean by the apocalypse? (00:03:36) Well, we're we're becoming a nerd to to (00:03:40) the apocalypse. We just watched (00:03:41) hypersonic missiles flam into a modern (00:03:43) city on TV, and (00:03:47) we're watching one of the world's most (00:03:52) remarkable civilizations, the Persians, (00:03:54) take uh direct hits from both Israel and (00:04:00) the US. And I'm just beside myself. I (00:04:03) mean, this is incredibly dramatic (00:04:07) if if you think about, you know, just (00:04:09) the idea of the Jews and the Persians (00:04:10) are both still here. And, you know, one (00:04:14) of the things that I find really just (00:04:16) painful is that (00:04:19) I care about certain certain cultures (00:04:21) that I know well more than others. And (00:04:24) these are two of my absolute favorites. (00:04:27) >> What's what's going on at this moment in (00:04:29) time? because it feels like there's more (00:04:31) conflict than there's ever been. And I (00:04:33) don't know whether that's just a bias (00:04:35) that I have at this moment, but or (00:04:36) whether I'm looking at the wrong social (00:04:37) media algorithm, but it feels like the (00:04:39) world isn't is tense. (00:04:40) >> Well, you're too you're too young for (00:04:42) the Cold War. (00:04:43) >> So, I don't know how old you are. (00:04:46) >> 32. (00:04:47) >> Yeah. So, you you you really missed I (00:04:49) grew up in a different world where (00:04:50) things were tense because there were two (00:04:52) players and you know, it was more or (00:04:54) less the US and the Soviets. (00:04:57) And then we decided it one of the (00:04:59) dumbest things we ever came up with. A (00:05:01) very smart man came up with the dumbest (00:05:03) one of the dumbest ideas which was the (00:05:05) end of history. And you know the the (00:05:08) postworld war I order (00:05:11) is here to stop us from using the (00:05:14) technologies that came out of this. And (00:05:16) I you know I talk about this a lot. (00:05:18) There was a six-month period between (00:05:20) November of 52 and April of 53 where we (00:05:24) unlocked first the power of the nucleus (00:05:27) because we could fuse hydrogen and the (00:05:31) other thing we were able to do was uh (00:05:33) figure out the threedimensional (00:05:34) structure of nucleic acid in the form of (00:05:37) the double helix. And suddenly in in no (00:05:42) time flat we had access to the two most (00:05:44) powerful levers uh humanity has ever (00:05:47) had. perhaps ever will. And so we're (00:05:49) just not in a position to deal with (00:05:52) this. And the remarkable thing, (00:05:53) >> what does that mean, sorry, in terms of (00:05:56) you said we had access to the two most (00:05:57) remarkable things? (00:05:59) >> Well, the hydrogen bomb is not something (00:06:02) that has ever been used by anyone (00:06:04) against (00:06:06) an enemy. (00:06:07) >> This is the first full scale test of a (00:06:10) hydrogen device. If the reaction goes, (00:06:13) we're in the thermonuclear era. 3 2 1. (00:06:21) >> So we're we're awaiting its first use in (00:06:23) war. We we we did use fision devices, (00:06:26) but we didn't use fusion devices, and (00:06:28) they're completely different scales. (00:06:31) So the Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the (00:06:34) only two situations in which a nuke has (00:06:36) ever been used against a a population, (00:06:39) civilian or otherwise. (00:06:41) And we don't know for example whether or (00:06:44) not I don't know um at least co had its (00:06:47) origins in a bioweapons program. (00:06:51) So at some level we're playing with (00:06:53) levers and tools that are so powerful. (00:06:57) Do you realize that the the key (00:06:58) ingredient that made COVID so unique (00:07:02) was a four amino acid sequence inserted (00:07:05) into spike protein. So that's 12 (00:07:08) nucleotides coding for four amino acids (00:07:11) shut down planet earth for a couple of (00:07:13) years. That's how powerful this is, you (00:07:16) know, and the very few things that have (00:07:18) this kind of leverage. In 2017, we had a (00:07:22) discovery, a white paper called (00:07:25) attention is all you need. And oddly, (00:07:27) many of us dealing with AI and LLMs and (00:07:30) talking that language don't even realize (00:07:32) there's a paper that you can read that (00:07:34) changed everything. (00:07:36) uh it's eight authors out of Google I (00:07:38) think um and that opened up AI uh (00:07:41) Satoshi in 2008 2009 with the the (00:07:46) solution to the double distributed (00:07:47) double spend problem where you could (00:07:49) effectively port um conservation laws (00:07:52) from the physical world into the digital (00:07:54) world giving us digital gold. Uh but (00:07:57) just as a as a beginning, (00:07:59) >> these ideas that have such high leverage (00:08:03) are (00:08:04) making us powerful beyond (00:08:08) any previous world with no (00:08:12) attendant increase in our wisdom, in our (00:08:14) ability to use and wield these things. (00:08:17) And right now you're seeing the face (00:08:19) where we're unveiling what does drone (00:08:22) warfare look like in FPV? What is (00:08:24) >> FPV? first person (00:08:27) where you know where you're looking (00:08:29) through the lens of the drone as it (00:08:32) slams into a personnel carrier. You (00:08:35) know, maybe maybe you've seen this on (00:08:36) Telegram where you're just watching (00:08:38) individuals being menaced by mechanical (00:08:42) flying birds equipped to kill them. So, (00:08:46) we didn't know what drone warfare looked (00:08:48) like. This is the beginning of drone (00:08:50) warfare. We didn't know what hypersonic (00:08:53) missiles look like when they slam into a (00:08:55) population center. I was just in Tel (00:08:57) Aviv. (00:08:58) >> Yeah. (00:08:59) >> Couple months ago. And I was in, you (00:09:00) know, shelters because the Houthis and (00:09:03) some of the Palestinian Arabs in Gaza (00:09:06) were letting off missiles, but not like (00:09:08) this. (00:09:10) Persians really, you know, and by the (00:09:13) way, they're choosing, I think, to not (00:09:15) inflict maximal damage. I don't I don't (00:09:18) think that they they could have gotten (00:09:20) the body count uh a lot higher if they'd (00:09:22) wanted to. They're trying to speak (00:09:26) the language of violence in a very (00:09:29) measured fashion. (00:09:31) >> So, is this a particularly (00:09:34) tense moment or is it just the bias that (00:09:36) I have because I've not been through (00:09:37) these things before? Is there something (00:09:38) different? (00:09:38) >> You're look I can't even believe the (00:09:41) question. You're looking at the end, (00:09:43) man. (00:09:44) This is the beginning. This is a slow (00:09:47) roll out of a completely different (00:09:50) world. You've been in We've all been in (00:09:52) a completely artificially stagnant (00:09:54) bubble for decades. My entire life up (00:09:57) until now has been in a bubble. The only (00:10:01) people who have seen real life are (00:10:03) extremely old. (00:10:05) >> Who are those people that have seen real (00:10:06) life? Well, I would say people who went (00:10:09) through the depression, World War II, (00:10:12) you know, in China, people who went (00:10:13) through Ma's great leap forward, but (00:10:16) most of us have no idea of what like a (00:10:18) real pandemic like a Spanish flu or (00:10:21) black plague is like. We don't know what (00:10:24) uh Poland went through where they lost, (00:10:26) you know, I don't know, 20 25% of their (00:10:27) population to war. Look at the stat (00:10:30) statistics on the battle of Stalenrad. (00:10:34) We don't really understand. We've we (00:10:36) we've just our whole life has been in a (00:10:39) bubble. (00:10:41) >> You said I'm looking at the end. (00:10:42) >> Yeah. (00:10:44) Remember all the talk about the (00:10:45) singularity? Like Ray Curtzswhil, we're (00:10:47) heading to the singularity. What is the (00:10:48) singularity going to be like? (00:10:51) You're in it. (00:10:53) This is this is now (00:11:00) you're looking at the disintegration of (00:11:01) NATO. (00:11:03) You're looking at people who don't know (00:11:05) how to maintain the systems that were (00:11:06) engineered by their great-grandparents (00:11:08) after World War II. That order (00:11:12) that, you know, you're from the UK. (00:11:14) If you think about how how the UK woke (00:11:18) up to the idea that they had built into (00:11:21) their heads that we are the masters of (00:11:23) the world. So you you saw the beginning (00:11:26) of the end of this concept of the (00:11:29) British Empire. That moment is coming (00:11:32) for the US and it may be that it's (00:11:36) coming for Israel or it may be that it's (00:11:37) coming for Iran. See, in 1967, the (00:11:40) Israelis felt invincible in the Six-Day (00:11:43) War. And then in 1973, they had the Yom (00:11:46) Kipper war, and all the people that they (00:11:49) were, you know, priding themselves as (00:11:51) having beaten, these ferocious enemies (00:11:53) that were arrayed against them woke up (00:11:55) on Yom Kapor in 1973 and bloodied the (00:11:59) Israelis and they surprised them. So, (00:12:01) the Israelis underestimated their enemy (00:12:04) and that changed the entire character of (00:12:06) the country. It went from being a (00:12:08) triumphal state that felt that David (00:12:11) could defeat Goliath to realizing that (00:12:12) Goliath was quite powerful. And you (00:12:16) know, the same thing is going to happen (00:12:17) here. You you saw the celebration that (00:12:19) Trump, you know, had dealt this blow to (00:12:22) the Iranian nuclear facilities. You you (00:12:24) watch the Persians come back. It's going (00:12:25) to we're starting to realize what the (00:12:28) boundaries are as people are more bold (00:12:31) in trying things. Maybe Xi's going to (00:12:33) try to cross the Taiwan Strait. I don't (00:12:35) know. But the era of stasis where very (00:12:38) little happened over very long periods (00:12:39) of time is over. (00:12:42) >> So you think this is the start of (00:12:43) escalation? (00:12:45) >> This is the start of the undoing of the (00:12:47) postworld war II order. The idea that (00:12:50) the postworld war II order is still in (00:12:52) place is astounding. (00:12:55) >> So what happens next? (00:12:57) >> We either scare the crap out of (00:12:58) ourselves and come to our senses or we (00:13:00) don't. (00:13:00) >> We scare the crap out of ourselves and (00:13:02) come to our senses (00:13:03) >> or we don't. Hm. And what does that look (00:13:05) like? Scaring the crap out of ourselves. (00:13:07) >> Well, I don't know. How did you feel (00:13:08) about the hypersonic missiles? Like, and (00:13:10) we started this and I'm talking about (00:13:11) tropical fruit because I'm trying to (00:13:13) figure out whether I I should buy a (00:13:14) jackf fruit and stink up my wife's (00:13:16) kitchen, you know? And on the other (00:13:18) hand, I just saw hypersonic missiles (00:13:20) slam into the buildings I was just in (00:13:23) for meetings in Tel Aviv. (00:13:25) >> There's a a nuclear (00:13:28) threat that weirdly hangs over us. And I (00:13:31) almost feel at some deep level we all (00:13:33) understand and feel that threat that (00:13:35) there's these nine or 10 countries (00:13:37) around the world that have the ability (00:13:38) to basically wipe out all of us at any (00:13:41) moment. I feel like that's almost within (00:13:43) us all. That knowing is within us all. (00:13:46) >> I totally disagree. (00:13:47) >> Really? (00:13:47) >> Yeah. I think about nothing else (00:13:49) sometimes and I still don't believe I (00:13:51) don't believe it. (00:13:52) >> There's a difference between knowing (00:13:53) something in your head and knowing (00:13:54) something embodied. (00:13:55) >> Yeah. I don't know if we're able to (00:13:58) distinguish whether we know it in our (00:13:59) head or whether it's embodied (00:14:00) unconsciously to the point that it's (00:14:02) changing how we act. (00:14:04) Do you know what I mean? Because I'm I'm (00:14:05) now aware that there's nine country and (00:14:07) I'm also aware of that really it's one (00:14:09) individual's (00:14:10) decision as to whether those nuclear (00:14:13) bombs were to fly. So there's a part of (00:14:15) me that's I don't know maybe in (00:14:17) suspended disbelief or at a deeper level (00:14:19) feels an angst (00:14:21) >> but nobody knows what to do with it. And (00:14:23) this is part of what what Elon is all (00:14:25) about, which is that I am convinced that (00:14:27) everybody else needs to be talking about (00:14:29) this much more and I need to be talking (00:14:31) about this much less. (00:14:33) I talk about this all the time. (00:14:36) You know, people are always I want to (00:14:38) survive more than anything else. There's (00:14:41) so many things that I love about this (00:14:42) place and I don't like the idea that (00:14:44) we're all trapped here with one (00:14:47) atmosphere with nine individuals if you (00:14:49) like (00:14:51) who could all wake up on the wrong side (00:14:53) of the bed and say, "Uh, (00:14:56) today's the day." (00:14:58) Part of what I'm so exercised about with (00:15:00) respect to the apocalypse is how many (00:15:02) things I want to save. I mean, this city (00:15:05) just went up in flames. (00:15:07) It's very, it focuses the mind. How many (00:15:10) things can I save in one car load if I (00:15:13) know that the police are not going to (00:15:15) let me come back to my home? Do you save (00:15:17) photos? Do you save musical instruments? (00:15:20) Do you save financial records? What what (00:15:22) is it that you save? You know, it was a (00:15:24) very focusing question. We're already (00:15:26) over it. We can't even remember the (00:15:27) fires. (00:15:29) On that point of the things that give us (00:15:32) meaning, yeah, in our lives, (00:15:34) >> where do you think we're at as a society (00:15:36) in terms of our feelings of meaning and (00:15:40) purpose and connectedness to maybe (00:15:42) something transcendent or I was mulling (00:15:44) over this idea the other day. I actually (00:15:45) posted it on on my LinkedIn page of all (00:15:47) places. I said that um I think we need (00:15:50) to ladder up to things to feel like (00:15:52) anchored and content in life. like we (00:15:53) you know we lad we start with ourselves (00:15:54) and we ladder up to family then (00:15:56) community then maybe a mission or a (00:15:57) purpose and then maybe to something (00:15:59) transcendent and it feels like it (00:16:01) because of the design of our lives and (00:16:02) the optimization of it we we're (00:16:04) increasingly lading up to just (00:16:06) ourselves. (00:16:06) >> Yeah. (00:16:07) >> I think even in my life I'm wondering (00:16:08) whether there's like a layer missing (00:16:11) like which is the religious layer or a (00:16:13) spiritual layer. (00:16:14) >> Do you pray? (00:16:16) >> It's a good question. (00:16:18) >> You come over Friday night and pray with (00:16:19) us. I'd say I do pray. (00:16:22) >> That's pretty weak. (00:16:23) >> But it's not a it's not the way that I (00:16:25) see prayer on in movies and stuff. (00:16:27) >> So that's the thing, right? We have this (00:16:29) idea that somebody puts their hands (00:16:30) together (00:16:31) >> and they just believe. (00:16:33) >> Yeah. (00:16:33) >> But a lot of time when you're praying, (00:16:34) you don't really believe. You're not (00:16:36) sure that you're doing anything (00:16:37) sensible. You you feel ridiculous. (00:16:39) >> Mhm. (00:16:39) >> And that's true. Even if you're a (00:16:40) believer. (00:16:42) >> Do you think we need religion? (00:16:44) >> Yeah. (00:16:46) Said the atheist. (00:16:48) >> Are you an atheist? (00:16:49) >> Yeah. (00:16:52) But I take religion super seriously. (00:16:55) I don't think we're meant to live (00:16:56) without it. (00:17:00) >> That's an interesting conundrum. (00:17:02) >> I don't think so. Everybody gets hung up (00:17:04) on it. I sort of wonder what their (00:17:06) problem is. (00:17:06) >> Please explain. So, you believe that we (00:17:09) aren't meant to live without religion. (00:17:10) We're meant to be orientated by (00:17:11) something transcendent, but you don't (00:17:14) believe that it's real. I think that, (00:17:20) you know, there's this great trick that (00:17:22) I learned when I was scuba diving, which (00:17:24) is that your your need to breathe is (00:17:28) triggered by the buildup of CO2 in your (00:17:30) lungs. And there are all sorts of things (00:17:32) you can do to decrease your need to (00:17:34) breathe. One is you can hyperventilate. (00:17:36) And you can get rid of all of the CO2 (00:17:38) that's residual. You can also inerture (00:17:41) your lungs to CO2 by smoking. You can (00:17:44) also breathe out the precious air that (00:17:46) your instincts tell you to hold in. You (00:17:49) can do all these things and then you can (00:17:50) go super deep. You can equal learn how (00:17:52) to equalize the pressure in your ears by (00:17:54) holding your nose and and these (00:17:56) techniques. And suddenly you're far (00:17:58) deeper than you've ever been. And you're (00:18:00) exploring the rocks and the fishes and (00:18:02) there's a turtle and there's an eel (00:18:05) and you get a message. You're out of (00:18:06) air. (00:18:09) And you look up and you see, I am really (00:18:11) far from the surface. This is (00:18:12) terrifying. (00:18:14) That's what happens when you unhook (00:18:17) the proximate which is air hunger (00:18:20) from the ultimate which is the need to (00:18:22) breathe. (00:18:24) So thirst is proximate to dehydration. (00:18:26) Hunger is proximate to the need for (00:18:30) nourishment. (00:18:31) In part, religion and prayer is there to (00:18:35) keep us from unhooking (00:18:38) all of these protective things and just (00:18:41) turning life into a hoot. You can have a (00:18:44) hoot without religion, but if everybody (00:18:46) has a hoot, the whole society collapses. (00:18:51) Some point I think a president of the (00:18:54) United States may have said that people (00:18:55) who defend this country were suckers. (00:18:58) Something like that. (00:19:01) And I thought, "God damn you." Maybe (00:19:03) it's true even, (00:19:06) but how many families have have received (00:19:09) a a flag draped coffin (00:19:12) and felt pride (00:19:16) like we lost something precious, but we (00:19:18) are part of the American tapestry in a (00:19:20) way that few families can be. And when (00:19:22) we outsmart ourselves, when we unhook (00:19:25) all of these things, (00:19:27) you know, every single young woman has (00:19:29) an idea about what the opportunity cost (00:19:33) of not going on only fans is (00:19:38) before. We didn't know what the (00:19:39) opportunity cost. There was no (00:19:41) measurement of it. (00:19:43) We're becoming too sophisticated. We've (00:19:45) got too much information. We're (00:19:47) deranging ourselves. We're having a (00:19:49) blast. (00:19:51) and we're completely undoing all of the (00:19:54) superructure of the world. (00:19:56) The number of people who don't have (00:19:58) children or want children or (00:20:03) my kids make fun of me. I just go around (00:20:05) telling people to make babies (00:20:09) and it's the most normal thing in the (00:20:11) world. (00:20:13) I meet parents who don't harass their (00:20:15) own children to get married and have (00:20:16) families. Like what are you doing? (00:20:20) the superructures of the world. (00:20:22) >> Yeah. (00:20:24) >> One being family family. (00:20:26) >> Yeah. Traditions. (00:20:28) >> Yeah. (00:20:28) >> Things that ground that connect you to. (00:20:32) >> And what are the symptoms of that (00:20:33) unhooking from the superructures of the (00:20:35) world? (00:20:35) >> How much do you care about things? How (00:20:38) much do you care about people saying (00:20:40) your name four generations out? (00:20:43) >> Me? (00:20:43) >> Yeah. You. (00:20:44) >> You're probably asking the wrong person (00:20:45) because I just don't think legacy (00:20:46) matters because I'm going to be dead. (00:20:48) >> That's right. But you're I'm asking all (00:20:50) of you who believe that. (00:20:52) >> Yeah. (00:20:53) >> That is so sad. (00:20:56) It is so weird that no one cares about (00:20:59) their legacy because they don't see a (00:21:00) future. So what I'm trying to say is (00:21:04) I'm desperate to get you a future so (00:21:06) that you care. (00:21:08) >> What needs to happen to get me a future? (00:21:11) >> Something remarkable. Something utterly (00:21:13) remarkable because it's not it's not (00:21:15) going that way. And that's what that's (00:21:17) what the physics part is. Like I talk (00:21:18) about physics constantly. Physics is the (00:21:21) only thing that's going to get to your (00:21:23) future. (00:21:24) >> And how how (00:21:25) >> well right now the big problem is that (00:21:27) we share one atmosphere. (00:21:29) >> Yeah. So everything that can (00:21:33) all the really bad things whether it's (00:21:35) pathogens like imagine something (00:21:37) coidlike but far worse (00:21:40) or climate or uh radiation. (00:21:46) All of these things don't know anything (00:21:49) about borders. To an extent there's a (00:21:52) southern and a northern hemisphere that (00:21:53) are separate but even that's not a great (00:21:56) border. So, we can draw all the borders (00:21:58) on land that we want, but we still have (00:21:59) basically one or two atmospheres. And I (00:22:02) would really say one. And we've now (00:22:05) gotten powerful enough to really screw (00:22:07) it up, (00:22:09) right? And so, (00:22:10) >> through nukes or through carbon (00:22:12) emissions, (00:22:13) >> all three of those things. Okay? Right? (00:22:15) >> Everything that you care about is on one (00:22:17) sphere with one one atmosphere. (00:22:20) And I think Elon is 100% right. We got (00:22:23) to get to another sphere. I can't (00:22:26) believe (00:22:28) that he's focused on Mars. I mean, by by (00:22:33) sure, focus on the moon, focus on Mars, (00:22:35) focus on chemical rockets, (00:22:37) but throw a couple billion towards (00:22:39) physics for God's sakes. So, let us get (00:22:41) it. Let us get serious about exploring (00:22:44) the cosmos. (00:22:46) This is our womb. This is not our home. (00:22:49) We're You know, you know that song, (00:22:50) Closing Time? (00:22:51) >> No, I don't. (00:22:52) >> Closing time. (00:22:54) Uh, you don't have to go home, but you (00:22:56) can't stay here. I think it's about (00:22:58) birth. (00:23:00) Yeah, it's time to be born. (00:23:02) You can't stay here. (00:23:04) This is completely obvious to me and I (00:23:07) am the only person who who talks this (00:23:08) way and so I sound like a lunatic and I (00:23:10) get tired of it. But the real reason it, (00:23:13) you know, it's about the mangoes, it's (00:23:15) about the rambutan, it's about the (00:23:16) music, (00:23:18) it's about all the things that I love. (00:23:22) So why would you want to leave? (00:23:24) >> I want to take it with us and I want to (00:23:25) see what else is out there and I want to (00:23:27) meet people. (00:23:28) >> Why don't you just stay here and fix (00:23:30) this planet? (00:23:31) >> Cuz you can't. (00:23:33) The odds of fixing one sphere for a (00:23:36) permanent future. You've already talked (00:23:37) about you don't care about the future. (00:23:39) >> I don't have children yet either. So I (00:23:41) don't Yeah, I don't have that. (00:23:42) >> But I My children don't have children (00:23:44) and their children don't have children (00:23:47) and I care about them and they're not (00:23:48) even here. (00:23:51) We've got some time left here though. (00:23:54) >> Well, we did. (00:23:56) If you looked what's happened in the (00:23:58) last month, (00:24:01) it's coming undone. Pakistan and India. (00:24:07) >> Do you really think this is the start of (00:24:08) the end? (00:24:11) >> I I have no idea where I am. (00:24:13) >> Of course it is. (00:24:16) The World War II order was keeping it. (00:24:19) It's like control rods keeping the world (00:24:21) from going super critical. (00:24:23) >> Can't we just put the rods back (00:24:24) together? (00:24:26) >> Have you looked at who we had an (00:24:28) election with Donald Trump versus Kla (00:24:31) Harris in the US? (00:24:34) Tell me what's going on in the UK. What (00:24:36) are we doing in the mayoral race for for (00:24:38) New York? I don't know if you're (00:24:41) watching what I'm watching. Look at the (00:24:43) mess (00:24:45) that's going on in Gaza. (00:24:48) Russia is nuclear. Israel is presumably (00:24:51) nuclear. Pakistan and India are nuclear. (00:24:54) The US is nuclear. Iran is almost (00:24:56) nuclear. China's pissed off about Iran (00:24:59) because it was trying to make a play (00:25:00) through the region. North Korea is (00:25:03) watching. (00:25:04) Oh, and look at the UK in turmoil. (00:25:09) UK is a very nuclear country. To say (00:25:12) nothing of France. (00:25:15) This is not going to go well. We just we (00:25:18) and by the way look at how much is (00:25:19) happening with AI, (00:25:22) right? (00:25:23) Everything was really stagnant. So I I (00:25:26) have this famous challenge that I give (00:25:27) people which is go into a room (00:25:31) and subtract the screens and forget (00:25:34) about style. How do you know you're not (00:25:35) in 1973? (00:25:40) Like drones are the beginning. (00:25:43) Imagine I needed a refill on my coffee (00:25:45) and you know you did something and a (00:25:47) drone brought me a coffee to not (00:25:48) interrupt the flow. That would we know (00:25:51) we weren't in 73 but in general drones (00:25:53) aren't a big part of our lives. (00:25:55) These robots I've never seen a human (00:25:58) robot actually doing anything other than (00:26:00) on YouTube where it's like doing the (00:26:01) mashed potato. (00:26:03) >> Mhm. (00:26:04) >> So in general yeah things were just (00:26:07) really stagnant for a really long time. (00:26:09) And during that period of stagnation, we (00:26:10) we had this crazy narrative which is (00:26:12) like the dizzying pace of change is (00:26:14) making it almost impossible to keep up (00:26:16) while things were incredibly stagnant. (00:26:18) And so it just shows you sort of this (00:26:20) weird way in which our our minds can be (00:26:23) programmed to completely ignore what (00:26:25) we're experiencing. (00:26:26) Is there not a chance that we'll just (00:26:29) continue to (00:26:32) >> Okay, if you want to go with chance, (00:26:34) look, until until you're worried about (00:26:37) your great great grandchildren. I don't (00:26:40) want to have this conversation with you. (00:26:43) I want you to start caring about that. I (00:26:45) want you to go to church. (00:26:48) You you're heir to a great tradition. (00:26:52) One of the most important traditions in (00:26:53) the world has to be Christianity because (00:26:56) both Judaism and Islam are screwed up (00:26:58) over the law. We're legal traditions. (00:27:01) Christianity, not so much. And I think I (00:27:04) first time somebody crystallized that (00:27:06) for me was Sam Harris. (00:27:08) It's a really important point, but (00:27:10) you're heir to an incredibly powerful (00:27:12) and important tradition. And if we don't (00:27:14) have a Christian substrate, we're in (00:27:16) real trouble because all of our society (00:27:18) is based on on an assumption of a (00:27:20) Christian substrate. (00:27:22) You're advising me to be (00:27:25) Christian in tradition but not in (00:27:28) necessarily in belief. (00:27:30) >> Well, this is the thing. You're (00:27:31) alienated because you think that you (00:27:32) have to be a believer in order to go in. (00:27:34) Otherwise, you're faking it. (00:27:36) >> Yeah. (00:27:37) >> Get over yourself. That's not how it (00:27:39) works. (00:27:39) >> That's true. That's me just me being (00:27:40) honest. I do think that if I went to a (00:27:41) church and I I sung and I I prayed and (00:27:43) stuff and I didn't believe I would that (00:27:46) I'd be like it'd be it'd be fake. (00:27:49) >> Okay. (00:27:52) Do do you imagine that all those people (00:27:53) who go to church are just sitting there (00:27:54) 100% sure that there's a there's a Jesus (00:27:57) to pray to? (00:27:59) >> Do you know any Christians? (00:28:00) >> Yeah. (00:28:01) >> Yeah. They're not like that. (00:28:04) They sneak off and do bad things. If (00:28:07) they were confident that Jesus was (00:28:08) watching everything that they were doing (00:28:10) and they were constantly talking about (00:28:11) how they sin, (00:28:13) I'm a sinner. Right? It's a very (00:28:16) complicated, interesting (00:28:18) piece of kit. And my claim is that, (00:28:24) you know, (00:28:26) I said the Lord's Prayer as part of (00:28:28) going to high school. (00:28:34) >> I sat in a church, a chapel at a high (00:28:37) school in LA that had a stained glass (00:28:39) window with an American soldier (00:28:41) trampling a Nazi flag into the stained (00:28:44) glass window. (00:28:46) was amazing. (00:28:48) >> How does this link to me? I was about to (00:28:51) say, can't don't you have faith that (00:28:53) we'll just be able to kind of keep this? (00:28:55) It feels like a bit of a standoff. (00:28:56) >> So, you're the one with the faith. I'm (00:28:58) the one who's nervous. You look, you're (00:29:01) the believer. (00:29:04) I'm not going to trust that. No, no. I'm (00:29:06) going to get my hands dirty and try to (00:29:07) do something about it. Do (00:29:08) >> you know what? I think in part it's (00:29:09) because as you said I've been alive for (00:29:11) 32 years and through that time has been (00:29:13) relative peace especially in the western (00:29:15) world. So it's all I've ever known. So I (00:29:17) I'm born with this assumption that this (00:29:18) is just kind of how it goes. That (00:29:19) there's always threat but we kind of (00:29:21) figure it out. (00:29:22) >> Come to the Pacific Palisades. It looks (00:29:24) like Gaza. (00:29:26) >> Yeah. (00:29:29) Yeah. I've got some friends that lost (00:29:30) their houses there. You know (00:29:32) >> checked out Lahina in uh West Maui (00:29:35) recently. (00:29:36) >> No. (00:29:37) It's an absolute disaster. (00:29:41) >> Is AI a protagonist in this story? Is (00:29:43) it? (00:29:43) >> Sure. (00:29:44) >> In what in what respect? (00:29:46) >> Well, what do you what do you think (00:29:47) about it? We're going through going (00:29:49) through a wild revolution at the moment (00:29:51) and I just hear people saying the (00:29:53) dumbest things about it. (00:29:56) What do I think about I'm scared I might (00:29:58) say something dumb now, but (00:29:59) >> Well, let's try because I'm going to say (00:30:00) something dumb. I think well I look at (00:30:02) both sides of the coin and I look at the (00:30:04) opportunity and the and the threat. My (00:30:07) concern when I hear about the CEOs of (00:30:09) the biggest aerial companies in the (00:30:10) world talking about this fast takeoff is (00:30:12) that the transition will be too quick (00:30:13) for us to adjust. And when they say fast (00:30:16) takeoff, they mean that AGI like arrives (00:30:19) and it the rate of its learning (00:30:22) accelerates so quickly that it really um (00:30:26) disrupts the need for human beings to do (00:30:29) a lot of the sort of jobs we're doing (00:30:31) today that are centered on intelligence. (00:30:33) >> Which jobs require intelligence? (00:30:35) >> Pretty much all of them these days (00:30:36) because we've had the industrial (00:30:37) revolution where we've outsourced a lot (00:30:40) of the labor to machines. But (00:30:41) >> I don't think so (00:30:42) >> really. Yeah, I think a large portion of (00:30:44) our conversation was actually an LLM. (00:30:49) We didn't actually get to the stuff (00:30:52) outside of the LLM. You and I are two (00:30:54) chat bots for the most part. You're a (00:30:56) good one. (00:30:57) >> Thank you. (00:30:58) >> I'm on a huge I'm on a huge platform (00:31:00) again, you know, but my claim is is that (00:31:02) that's the really disturbing part that (00:31:04) more or less we're LLMs. More or less we (00:31:06) don't do a single intelligent thing all (00:31:08) day long. And the reason that they're (00:31:10) able to mimic us is because we don't (00:31:12) realize that intelligence is a last (00:31:14) resort for us. We try to automate (00:31:18) like, you know, if you think about (00:31:20) greetings, (00:31:24) your assistant was very kind. I got out (00:31:26) of a black car that you guys sent around (00:31:29) and I was greeted with the phrase, (00:31:32) "There he is, the man, the myth." And I (00:31:34) knew what was coming next, the legend. (00:31:36) Right? because that is a sort of (00:31:39) humorous way of giving an intimate (00:31:41) greeting, but it's still an LLM. (00:31:44) And I'm not saying that your assistant (00:31:46) is an LLM. I'm saying that more or less (00:31:48) what we do all day long is LLM (00:31:50) interactions. (00:31:53) Hey buddy, how are you? Good. Good. (00:31:55) Things have been really busy. How about (00:31:57) you? Well, I got some travel coming up. (00:31:59) Kind of excited about it, but I have to (00:32:00) get through some work first. I (00:32:02) understand. That's an entirely scripted (00:32:04) conversation. (00:32:07) That's why I'm trying to say that I want (00:32:09) to do podcasting that is outside of the (00:32:12) LLM model. I don't want to do just (00:32:13) dangerous, stupid stuff, but I want to (00:32:15) talk about things that I've never (00:32:17) explored where I don't have something, (00:32:21) you know, ready. (00:32:23) >> Do you think AI will ever break out of (00:32:24) the (00:32:26) the LLM or will it expand? (00:32:28) >> I think the LLMs will. (00:32:31) I don't see I think that waiting for AGI (00:32:33) as the problem is a is a bad idea. I (00:32:36) think the problems are going to get here (00:32:37) far before AGI. I think even that the (00:32:40) AGI expectation is something we're (00:32:42) trained to do. Do you think AGI is (00:32:45) coming? Do you think we'll survive AGI? (00:32:47) Will AGBI be good or bad? All of that's (00:32:50) pre-programmed into you. Why do you Why (00:32:51) are you waiting for AGI? Did you not (00:32:55) alpha fold three? Did you Did you track (00:32:57) that? Do you know about this? (00:32:58) >> Is that Was that the chess game? the (00:33:00) well it's the chess game that became the (00:33:02) protein folding game. All right. (00:33:03) >> You want to talk about great games? (00:33:05) Protein folding. Now that's a game. (00:33:07) >> I have no no knowledge of this at all. (00:33:09) >> Okay. What do you know about proteins? (00:33:11) >> Very little. (00:33:13) >> Okay. Think about proteins as tiny (00:33:15) machines. (00:33:16) >> Yeah. (00:33:16) >> That there's copying machine. There's a (00:33:19) a scissors and a shearing machine. (00:33:21) There's a a light making machine. All (00:33:23) sorts of things. And all of those (00:33:26) machines are weirdly coded. (00:33:29) Imagine that you had like a a children's (00:33:31) show and uh a bunch of girl superheroes. (00:33:35) They all had necklaces with uh 20 (00:33:37) different kinds of beads around their (00:33:39) neck. And so when they needed a machine, (00:33:42) they'd take off the necklace, they'd (00:33:44) throw it into a thing called a ribosome, (00:33:46) the ribosome would take these 20 kinds (00:33:48) of pearls and suddenly it would build (00:33:49) you a car or a spaceship or a gun or who (00:33:52) knows what. Well, that's that's that's (00:33:53) the story of DNA, RNA, and uh and (00:33:58) protein. (00:33:59) The only thing is, isn't it weird that a (00:34:02) linear sequence suddenly crumples up (00:34:04) into a three-dimensional object that (00:34:06) does something? So, for example, I don't (00:34:08) have you ever seen um these Turkish (00:34:11) rabbits that glow in the dark? (00:34:13) >> No. (00:34:13) >> Okay. So, they took green fluorescent (00:34:15) protein out of jellyfish. (00:34:17) >> Yeah. and they uh spliced them into the (00:34:21) nucleic acids of rabbits and the Turks (00:34:25) bred all of these glow-in-the-dark (00:34:27) bunnies. And what that is is a (00:34:30) structure. So there's there's something (00:34:31) called secondary structure and protein (00:34:34) where sometimes you get these spirals (00:34:36) called alpha helyses. And then sometimes (00:34:37) you get a two-dimensional sheet that's (00:34:39) made from taking uh a switchback in in (00:34:44) strings of amino acids. And then if you (00:34:46) wrap that around, you don't have a beta (00:34:47) sheet, you have a beta barrel. And these (00:34:49) beta barrels are the glow-in-the-dark (00:34:52) aspect of green fluorescent protein. (00:34:54) Okay? And (00:34:57) what we didn't know was how a series of (00:35:00) acts and G's could code for sequences of (00:35:03) amino acids could form three-dimensional (00:35:05) structures. So if you just read DNA, you (00:35:09) didn't know, well, that's going to be a (00:35:10) a sports car. (00:35:12) >> Yeah. (00:35:13) Alphold figured it out. For the most (00:35:16) part, like to a to an enormous extent, (00:35:19) humans were stuck there. (00:35:20) >> And what does that mean? (00:35:21) >> It means that you could uh I don't know, (00:35:23) you could target your enemies that have (00:35:25) particular regions uh on their cell (00:35:27) surfaces and you could come up with (00:35:29) proteins that only attach to them and (00:35:31) attack. It could mean anything. Could (00:35:33) mean nanoobots. (00:35:35) I don't know what it means, but my point (00:35:37) is is that that's already here and (00:35:40) you're not focused on it. (00:35:42) And you're thinking AGI. And the funny (00:35:45) part is is that's your LLM that got (00:35:47) programmed to wait for AGI. (00:35:50) >> Well, I heard, you know, people that I (00:35:51) think are very smart, much smarter than (00:35:52) me talk about the (00:35:54) >> Don't listen to them. (00:35:55) >> Elon, (00:35:56) >> sure. (00:35:57) >> I mean, he he says that it's our biggest (00:35:59) existential threat is a AI. (00:36:03) >> Elon (00:36:05) has become the outsourcing for much of (00:36:07) our intelligence. And if Elon means (00:36:09) anything to you, (00:36:12) he's really saying to you, "Don't listen (00:36:14) to me. Do something remarkable." (00:36:17) He's saying, "Where is everybody? Why is (00:36:20) there only one Elon? (00:36:23) There used to be lots of them?" (00:36:26) >> Why is there only one Elon? (00:36:29) >> Yeah, not the right question. Where (00:36:31) where did all the other Elons go? (00:36:34) >> Same question, is it not? (00:36:35) No, I think that the why is there only (00:36:37) one Elon makes Elon feel more singular. (00:36:40) You know, if you ever get a chance to go (00:36:42) to Capidokia or Bryce National Park in (00:36:45) Utah, you see what happens, which is (00:36:47) that you'll have a stone that was (00:36:49) resting on the soil and suddenly the (00:36:52) wind starts to erode everything except (00:36:54) the compactified soil right under that (00:36:56) stone and you get what's called a fairy (00:36:58) chimney or a hood. And so the claim is (00:37:01) is that sometimes you get these isolated (00:37:02) structures (00:37:05) And the key point is everything else (00:37:07) eroded away. (00:37:09) We're supposed to have tons of Elon (00:37:14) and everybody else got taken out. (00:37:19) What or who took them out? (00:37:22) Look at how much trouble Elon has being (00:37:24) Elon. (00:37:27) Look, we keep hearing about him. You (00:37:29) know, (00:37:31) he's on drugs. Great. take drugs. No, (00:37:34) I'm not kidding. Do you know how many (00:37:37) amazing people take drugs? (00:37:40) If you care about jazz, jazz is a whole, (00:37:42) you know, it's a history of drugs. (00:37:44) Whenever I'm listening to Ray Charles, (00:37:45) I'm hearing heroin. (00:37:48) Okay. What are they doing at Burning (00:37:50) Man? (00:37:52) They're trying to live luxuriously under (00:37:56) oppression simultaneously luxuriously (00:37:59) and as dirty and disgusting as you'll (00:38:01) ever be. Hopefully, they're having tons (00:38:04) of eye-opening, mind-bending experiences (00:38:08) chasing some way of getting out of the (00:38:10) LLM. (00:38:12) And you know, my feeling about this is (00:38:16) it's not even honest. I I I believe that (00:38:19) Elon, for example, does understand that (00:38:21) population and growth is really (00:38:23) important, but I also think he just (00:38:25) enjoys making babies. And in in a weird (00:38:28) way, this idea of I'm going to have an (00:38:31) empire of my children is a forbidden (00:38:34) concept. (00:38:35) Try explaining that to HR. (00:38:39) You know, it's like, what did you say at (00:38:40) work? So, the key point is Elon is (00:38:43) barely able to be Elon. (00:38:46) Do you think we're overestimating the (00:38:47) impact AI is going to have? (00:38:50) Because people, you know, a lot of (00:38:51) people see as this really fundamentally (00:38:53) transformative. (00:38:54) >> No. You don't think we're (00:38:56) underestimating it? (00:38:57) >> I think it's going to be (00:39:00) I I I think that what AI means to us is (00:39:03) is bizarre. We've we've come up with (00:39:05) this whole script about AGI and (00:39:09) it's going to take everything we do (00:39:11) that's repetitive is on the chopping (00:39:14) block. And since almost everything we do (00:39:17) is repetitive, (00:39:19) we don't need to get to AGI. We just (00:39:22) need to do things where lots of people (00:39:24) create lots of repetitive data and then (00:39:26) we tokenize it. We train the AI on the (00:39:29) tokens and then for the most part it (00:39:32) says, you know, it it doesn't matter. It (00:39:34) can be a photograph. It can be music. (00:39:36) Whatever it is, amino acids, just give (00:39:39) me a large enough data set and let me (00:39:41) add it and, you know, take a hike for (00:39:44) for a little while. I'll train on it and (00:39:45) then I'll know how to do that. You know (00:39:48) what? It's bad at things that where (00:39:50) there isn't much data. (00:39:53) So I I just I just found out about these (00:39:55) orphan proteins where like everybody's (00:39:58) got a different version of hemoglobin. (00:40:00) >> Mhm. (00:40:01) >> But you know the the quadinary structure (00:40:03) of he hemoglobin is these four hem (00:40:05) groups you know four different proteins (00:40:07) around a central element. What happens (00:40:10) when you have a protein that has no (00:40:12) analog anywhere else? The the system (00:40:14) doesn't have the ability to learn it. (00:40:18) If if I train you on the blues and you (00:40:20) find out what a 12 bar blues progression (00:40:22) is, then you find out that there's a (00:40:23) variation where this, you know, the (00:40:25) second bar goes to the fourth rather (00:40:27) than just staying on the one for four (00:40:29) bars. And then sometimes the fourth bar (00:40:30) has a seven in it to create tension. (00:40:32) Okay? So, it's going to learn every (00:40:34) single form of the blues like that. (00:40:38) And because there's a large corpus of (00:40:39) that stuff, it's going to get really (00:40:40) good at blues music, (00:40:43) you know, as a but if you take something (00:40:45) that basically (00:40:47) never happens, it's not going to have an (00:40:49) easy ability to train and give you more. (00:40:51) So I think that AI (00:40:55) is almost certainly going to transform (00:40:57) the economy because everything that we (00:40:59) we know how to do through education (00:41:02) creates repetitive behaviors. (00:41:04) We don't know how to educate for (00:41:06) creativity and genius. We know how to (00:41:08) educate for doing higher level things. (00:41:10) So radiology is a great example. (00:41:13) Radiologists are, you know, some of the (00:41:16) first uh in the crosshairs. (00:41:19) I'm going to stare at some imaging (00:41:22) and I'm going to say, I think that's a (00:41:23) tumor. I think that's benign. And it's (00:41:27) going to say, just give me give me give (00:41:28) me all of these tokens. Like, well, (00:41:31) they're x-rays. They're cats. No, no, (00:41:33) they're just tokens. (00:41:35) So, yeah. (00:41:37) It's going to start to automate away (00:41:39) every repetitive behavior and then (00:41:41) what's going to be left is the tiny (00:41:44) number of things that aren't really (00:41:45) highly repetitive or things where we (00:41:47) really care that a human does it. Very (00:41:49) interesting what's happened with chess. (00:41:52) I don't know if you've been following (00:41:53) chess. I loosely understand it mainly (00:41:57) because I've spoken to a lot of AI (00:41:58) experts and they often reference chess (00:42:00) as as an example where (00:42:01) >> it was one of the first things that (00:42:03) humans did that we really cared about (00:42:05) that fell. (00:42:07) So they've been longer (00:42:09) in the AI (00:42:12) tractor beam than any of the rest of us (00:42:13) in some sense. (00:42:16) >> How did it fall? (00:42:18) >> Through Deep Blue and IBM and Gary (00:42:21) Kasparov. (00:42:22) But does that mean that people people (00:42:23) aren't interested in chess anymore? What (00:42:25) are you saying? (00:42:25) >> No, no, no. That's the whole point. (00:42:28) So Magnus Carlson, the greatest chess (00:42:31) player of our time and perhaps of all (00:42:32) time, was on Joe Rogan and Joe asked him (00:42:36) the simple question, can your phone beat (00:42:37) you? He's like, yeah, easily. So the (00:42:40) point is, we can't compete (00:42:42) with, I don't know, Stockfish or what, (00:42:45) whatever the top chess programs of our (00:42:47) time. I don't know anymore. But nobody (00:42:48) cares about those programs except for AI (00:42:51) experts. (00:42:52) We care about the drama (00:42:56) of, (00:42:59) you know, Anan versus Carlson, (00:43:02) >> two humans, (00:43:03) >> two humans, because it's about us. We're (00:43:06) we're very narcissistic in this way. And (00:43:09) so there was a period, and you know, (00:43:11) this is something that my wife uh (00:43:14) tried to popularize. So she said this (00:43:16) thing about the golden age of AI (00:43:18) complimentarity (00:43:20) where the AIs aren't good enough to take (00:43:23) over from us but they're amazing tools (00:43:26) and so there's a period where we're (00:43:28) teamed up you know the prompt (00:43:30) engineering revolution they're not good (00:43:32) enough to come up with their own prompts (00:43:35) and a great example of this that she and (00:43:38) I have been talking about is the cyborg (00:43:40) chess era which is a period where humans (00:43:44) and the AI I could form teams that would (00:43:47) do better, but at some point the AI just (00:43:49) looks at the human and says, "You're (00:43:51) just holding me back." (00:43:54) >> You've got two children. (00:43:55) >> Yeah. (00:43:56) >> When they're thinking about their career (00:43:57) prospects with all that you think and (00:43:59) know and believe about the future that (00:44:01) we're heading towards, what what kind of (00:44:02) career advice would you be giving to (00:44:04) them? (00:44:05) >> Oh, I've given them terrible career (00:44:06) advice. I give I gave them somewhat (00:44:09) different career advice. So to my son, (00:44:12) my my advice was do the hardest most (00:44:15) technical thing you possibly can do and (00:44:18) be prepared to use that ability, that (00:44:21) facility in different ways than you're (00:44:24) you're honing it. But train yourself (00:44:27) with my daughter. Um I think she cares (00:44:31) deeply about people and you know there's (00:44:33) a typical male female divide. And I'm (00:44:36) not, by the way, I'm not going to talk (00:44:37) overly much about them because I try to (00:44:38) keep them out. (00:44:40) But she is uh you know somebody who is (00:44:44) taking the same level of analytic (00:44:46) ability but putting it in the service of (00:44:49) the law and trying to help people who (00:44:52) are you know really unfortunate. She's (00:44:54) very idealistic. And so at some level (00:44:56) the law is not going to allow us to have (00:44:59) AI lawyers for quite some time. It's not (00:45:01) going to trust anything. We we've got (00:45:03) jury uh trials and and judges and a (00:45:06) legal system that's written into our (00:45:08) founding documents. (00:45:11) To the average person, I would say get (00:45:14) your board in the water (00:45:17) and prepare to paddle like all get out. (00:45:20) The tsunami of a lifetime is coming and (00:45:23) nothing your elders have seen is going (00:45:24) to prepare. (00:45:28) There's no good advice to give that's (00:45:30) specific. Let's put it this way. But one (00:45:32) of the things when people tell me about (00:45:34) their moving from one city to another, I (00:45:36) have a phrase that nobody likes, which (00:45:38) is every place is over. (00:45:40) Oh, I'm moving to Austin. Yeah, it's (00:45:42) over. Miami, it's over. Nashville, over. (00:45:46) You know, all these places are over. And (00:45:49) every occupation that is named is over. (00:45:52) I'm going to be a dentist, (00:45:55) radiologist, accountant, (00:45:58) teacher. These are all over. (00:46:03) whatever is coming. Get flexible. Get (00:46:06) good. Get good on a bunch of different (00:46:09) stuff. (00:46:11) Learn how to think across disciplines. I (00:46:13) have no idea what what's going to be (00:46:15) left for us. (00:46:19) But, you know, somebody's going to come (00:46:20) out on top. (00:46:24) And I I hate to tell people that you (00:46:26) should try to come out on top. (00:46:29) I don't think it's healthy to have (00:46:30) everyone trying to be world class. (00:46:34) I think you should be able to just have (00:46:36) a life. (00:46:38) Now, I have a golden retriever. I don't (00:46:39) know that it's the greatest golden (00:46:40) retriever in the world. Sometimes I (00:46:43) think it is, but it does a lot of dumb (00:46:45) stuff. But he's my golden retriever. I (00:46:48) just don't think it I think that this (00:46:50) mania for optimization. Like if you look (00:46:53) at your own videos, you'll find some of (00:46:55) the best performing videos are this is (00:46:58) how to succeed. This is how to get (00:47:01) anyone you want. This is how to get out (00:47:03) of a bad situation. People just want (00:47:05) capacity. (00:47:07) But for what? (00:47:10) Okay, you've optimized your day. You've (00:47:11) optimized your health. Your social media (00:47:14) is optimized. (00:47:17) Now what? (00:47:20) >> Now what? I don't know (00:47:22) >> what should be then say you know is it (00:47:25) the is it time to just one would say (00:47:28) well now I one would incorrectly say (00:47:30) well now I can play with my golden (00:47:31) retriever and then one would say well (00:47:32) you should have been playing with your (00:47:33) golden retriever the whole time (00:47:37) let me put it a little differently (00:47:41) through some bizarre accident (00:47:45) I've gotten a chance to meet incredible (00:47:48) people that I don't even talk about who (00:47:49) I've met you You know, I've got a chance (00:47:52) to see the world. I haven't seen South (00:47:54) America, but I've seen most the other (00:47:56) continents other than the Antarctic. (00:48:00) I've had a really rich life. (00:48:05) Take somebody who hasn't had those (00:48:08) opportunities, (00:48:10) but they got a chance to have three (00:48:11) kids. (00:48:14) I'm not sure I wouldn't trade places. I (00:48:17) so enjoyed raising my children. (00:48:21) And it's available to everyone. (00:48:26) It's such a strange thing that we're (00:48:28) talking about optimization, all this (00:48:30) stuff. I I get to think about the the (00:48:32) substrate of the universe, theoretical (00:48:34) physics. I dream about visiting the (00:48:36) stars. I dream about multiple dimensions (00:48:38) of time, meeting aliens, all sorts of (00:48:40) things. (00:48:46) I still think having kids was like (00:48:49) unbeatable. (00:48:50) I'm so sad that it's over. I'm so sad (00:48:54) that they moved out. I cannot believe (00:48:56) that I was dumb enough to live in a (00:48:57) society that doesn't believe in having (00:49:00) your kids with you your whole life. (00:49:03) The idea that we look at places where (00:49:05) kids live at home as backwards is beyond (00:49:07) me. (00:49:10) And shout out to uh the entire Indian (00:49:12) subcontinent, (00:49:14) you know. It's just like family is (00:49:17) everything. They drive me crazy. (00:49:22) But it it's just meaning is available (00:49:25) for you. (00:49:27) And again, (00:49:30) you know, every time I get a chance to (00:49:33) eat a rambutan, it's one of my favorite (00:49:35) fruits. Mangoes, rambutans, jackf fruit, (00:49:38) sithafal if you can get custard apple. (00:49:41) The amount of pleasure I get. I've never (00:49:44) had a good custard apple in the entire (00:49:46) time I've lived in the US. Not one. I've (00:49:49) had a frozen one imported from Taiwan. (00:49:52) You get this cheramoya. Just get out of (00:49:54) here chairoya. You're not good. (00:49:59) Great custard apple. Great sith follow. (00:50:02) What a pleasure to be on this earth. and (00:50:04) it's available to almost anyone. I just (00:50:08) think that you can find meaning, (00:50:11) you know, for God's sakes, go to Spotify (00:50:14) if you have a a connection, if you can (00:50:15) afford a connection to Spotify and put (00:50:18) in Pablo Casal's version of the Boach (00:50:20) Cello Suites. (00:50:23) You're as rich as you need to be. I've (00:50:26) flown private. I'd much prefer to listen (00:50:29) to Pablo Casal playing the the jealous (00:50:31) suites in economy than to be to be to be (00:50:34) deprived of real luxury. (00:50:38) I don't know. I just to me meaning is (00:50:40) everywhere. (00:50:42) I can't swing a cat without hitting (00:50:44) meaning. (00:50:46) Have you always been like that or is (00:50:48) that something that you've cultivated? (00:50:50) the point about being able to swing a (00:50:51) cat and find meaning. So many people (00:50:53) that would be listening now could swing (00:50:55) a a 100 mile stick and wouldn't hit (00:50:58) meaning in their lives. But you seem to (00:51:00) be able to find it in the the purer (00:51:03) things, the more simple things. And I'm (00:51:05) wondering if that's something that we (00:51:06) can all cultivate with a change of (00:51:08) perspective or if it's just the way that (00:51:10) you've always been. (00:51:13) Why is Joe Rogan such a big deal? You (00:51:15) ever listen to Joe Rogan talk about (00:51:17) pugilism? Two gentlemen beating the crap (00:51:20) out of each other as poetry, (00:51:23) >> as chess. (00:51:28) I could listen to Joe talk about MMA for (00:51:31) days. (00:51:32) >> Yeah. (00:51:34) >> You know, the story of Mighty Mouse, the (00:51:37) guy trapped in some, I don't know, (00:51:39) flyweight division with unbelievable (00:51:42) skills who never gets to meet a (00:51:44) formidable enemy, you know? (00:51:48) Do you think that's a privilege? Do you (00:51:50) think that there's a privilege in being (00:51:51) able to craft a story? Because so much (00:51:53) of the meaning you're describing there (00:51:55) comes from these great stories. And not (00:51:58) everybody is able to craft the story (00:52:00) upon seeing something. You probably look (00:52:02) at this item in front of me, this glass, (00:52:04) and create a story about it that drives (00:52:06) meaning that makes you feel something. (00:52:08) >> I worry about its manufacturer. How is (00:52:10) it that we got a surface of revolution? (00:52:13) What is what is the industrial process? (00:52:15) How do I take a picture of this and get (00:52:16) a a photograph of the machine that made (00:52:18) it. You know that fly that has been (00:52:20) buzzing around us this entire interview? (00:52:22) Yeah. (00:52:23) >> Do you remember when Obama had a fly? (00:52:24) >> Yeah. And he caught it in (00:52:26) >> Wow. (00:52:26) >> Yeah. (00:52:28) >> The confidence of that man. (00:52:30) >> See, I'd try that and I'd miss and I'd (00:52:32) screw it up in front of millions of (00:52:33) people, (00:52:35) you know? It's like I I took so much (00:52:37) meaning away from that fly. (00:52:40) >> Were you trying to or is that just a (00:52:42) sort of pre (00:52:43) >> We all did. (00:52:44) >> Not everyone. Some people would have (00:52:45) gone. How was it that you knew exactly (00:52:49) what I was talking about? Because he (00:52:51) captured a moment. (00:52:55) He was the girl in the red dress. You (00:52:57) know, there's this thing that women say, (00:52:59) not every woman can wear red. Well, not (00:53:01) every man (00:53:04) can grab a fly with confidence. (00:53:07) I I think I think we all see this. I (00:53:11) think we all see beauty everywhere. You (00:53:13) remember that movie American Beauty with (00:53:15) the the plastic bag that gets in the air (00:53:18) funnel going up? (00:53:21) And the key point is the ability just to (00:53:24) see beauty wherever you find it. (00:53:27) You know, everything behind you means (00:53:29) something to me. The letter B uh is (00:53:34) strange to me that there's only one (00:53:35) phonetic alphabet and that every (00:53:37) phonetic alphabet is descended from it, (00:53:40) you know. (00:53:42) I I I (00:53:44) basically view everything as a (00:53:46) hyperlink. I just want to click on the (00:53:47) world and see what it goes to. (00:53:49) >> Not everybody does though. (00:53:51) >> But we do. (00:53:53) >> They don't make the step is what I'm (00:53:55) saying. Because people would see the bee (00:53:56) and nothing would cross their, (00:53:57) >> you know, it's funny. (00:54:00) >> There's an absolutely horrible account (00:54:02) that has been just dogging me for years (00:54:05) trying to make my life miserable. (00:54:07) And (00:54:08) >> a social media account. (00:54:10) >> Yeah. Doesn't matter. Yeah. (00:54:13) >> And the person said, "You know, one (00:54:15) thing I just never understand is (00:54:18) he's not (00:54:21) he's not hawking a book. (00:54:24) He He's just talking. Why Why are his (00:54:28) numbers high?" (00:54:30) The answer is everybody cares about this (00:54:32) stuff. They want an invitation. (00:54:35) One of the funniest things that gets (00:54:37) said about me on social media is he goes (00:54:39) on forever and he never says anything (00:54:42) and then like I look at the word clouds (00:54:44) of things that I' I've talked about and (00:54:46) people are just googling everything (00:54:47) incessantly. (00:54:49) You know, if you didn't know who Pablo (00:54:50) Cassals was, now you do. Now you know (00:54:52) what a real chis sounds like. Um (00:54:56) I don't know. I just (00:55:00) I can't believe that I'm so far through (00:55:02) this life that there's so little left. (00:55:07) I can't believe this doesn't go on (00:55:09) forever. (00:55:15) >> My people just got hit and (00:55:22) you know you want to talk about the (00:55:23) river and the sea, (00:55:27) that river is not the Jordan River and (00:55:30) that sea is not the Mediterranean. (00:55:34) The Arab world stretches from the (00:55:36) Atlantic with Morocco (00:55:39) right up to the what is it Shhat Alabia (00:55:43) waterway that divides Iraq from Iran. (00:55:48) And I don't think (00:55:51) this is stable. (00:55:54) There is no way in which (00:55:57) we should be fighting like this. This is (00:56:00) ridiculous. (00:56:05) Trump Trump used the F-word. I mean, (00:56:09) he's getting taking a ton of crap. Why (00:56:11) would you use the F word? Well, isn't it (00:56:13) interesting that people view Trump as so (00:56:15) tacky? (00:56:17) You know, he's he's got this Queen's (00:56:19) sort of bluster. He doesn't doesn't of (00:56:22) uh (00:56:24) finalist clubs at Harvard or Skull and (00:56:28) Bones or whatever. (00:56:31) No, Trump doesn't use the F-word for a (00:56:34) reason. That he needs it once in a blue (00:56:36) moon and it better mean something. (00:56:40) And he said this to Iran and he said (00:56:42) this to Israel. These two two countries (00:56:44) have been fighting for so long. They (00:56:48) don't know what the [ __ ] they're doing. (00:56:53) He didn't make a mistake. The rest of (00:56:55) the world has just forgotten how to (00:56:56) calibrate. (00:56:58) What do you see Trump in? How is he (00:57:00) clothed? (00:57:01) He's almost always in a suit and tie and (00:57:04) he almost never says the f- word. (00:57:07) And it's carefully calibrated to get (00:57:09) everybody's attention. And we're so (00:57:11) asleep that we don't even hear it. (00:57:15) This is World War II and it's already (00:57:18) started. (00:57:21) Biden was there in the Oval Office. (00:57:28) non-compassment meant and I was being (00:57:31) told don't worry there's a a committee (00:57:32) that has replaced him (00:57:35) because I was talking about the fact (00:57:36) that he can't be president. (00:57:40) I I just don't know what we're doing. (00:57:41) I'm so mystified by everybody else. You (00:57:44) know, it's like Elon makes sense to me. (00:57:50) I'm not Elon. I'm very different person, (00:57:53) but at least Elon makes sense to me. (00:57:56) Not 100% but 98% Elon makes sense to me. (00:57:59) It's everybody else that I'm completely (00:58:00) confused about. (00:58:01) >> What part of what Elon is saying makes (00:58:03) so much sense to you? (00:58:05) >> Oh jeez. Everything. One, we have to (00:58:07) have babies. We have to keep going. Two, (00:58:11) we it can't all be about problems. (00:58:15) You have to be excited to be alive every (00:58:17) morning. (00:58:20) You have to work your ass off your whole (00:58:21) life. You want to know one of the most (00:58:23) beautiful things that ever happened? (00:58:24) Somebody telling Elon that he was the (00:58:26) world's richest human being. He said, (00:58:29) "Huh, it's interesting." (00:58:32) Okay, back to work. (00:58:36) Amazing, right? There's no reward (00:58:41) that he can't have (00:58:44) more of by stopping work and enjoying (00:58:46) his wealth except doing stuff. And (00:58:51) I was born in this country. My parents (00:58:55) were born in this country. My (00:58:57) grandparents on one side were not, but (00:59:00) my grandparents on the other side were. (00:59:02) Elon is so American. (00:59:07) That cowboy spirit (00:59:10) that it he does all sorts of stuff I (00:59:13) can't stand. I don't want to see one (00:59:14) more of those Pepe memes ever. I really (00:59:17) don't. What the [ __ ] is his problem? (00:59:20) Okay, I don't know him at all, (00:59:24) but Elon at his best is is the United (00:59:27) States. (00:59:30) You know, anything is possible here. And (00:59:34) we and we just waste our lives on (00:59:36) interpersonal drama. (00:59:39) He wastes his life to an enormous extent (00:59:42) as a troll. (00:59:45) I cannot. That's the part of him that I (00:59:47) don't understand is one why he's not (00:59:49) focused 100% on physics. I think he sees (00:59:52) it as going through grock and AI. He (00:59:54) doesn't want to trust humans. I think he (00:59:56) sees Mars as energizing to engineers and (00:59:59) the stars are innovating to engineers (01:00:01) because the science there's no amount of (01:00:03) engine you can't engineer your way to (01:00:05) the stars with the science we have. (01:00:08) But he's he's being a complete [ __ ] (01:00:11) when it comes to science and he's being (01:00:12) a total hero when it comes to (01:00:14) engineering. (01:00:16) Um, (01:00:18) but he is the quintessential American. 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It takes care of the heavy (01:00:56) lifting, sending you highly skilled (01:00:58) candidates that you wouldn't find (01:00:59) anywhere else. So when the time comes to (01:01:01) make your next hire, make it count and (01:01:03) promote your job on LinkedIn. Head to (01:01:05) linkedin.com/doac. (01:01:07) That's linkedin.com/doac (01:01:10) and terms and conditions apply. (01:01:12) >> A second ago you said you can't believe (01:01:14) it doesn't go on forever. (01:01:15) >> Yeah. (01:01:17) >> You or the universe or (01:01:19) >> I can't believe my story doesn't go on (01:01:21) forever. Look, I've never died before so (01:01:23) I have no experience with it. So as far (01:01:25) as I know, I've always been alive (01:01:29) and it'll always go on that way. But (01:01:30) there's another thing that, you know, I (01:01:32) I've talked about occasionally, (01:01:35) which is I'm not the most publicspirited (01:01:38) human being. (01:01:40) You know, I I am somebody who will take (01:01:42) the last the last rambutan, (01:01:45) you know, and I know that you're not (01:01:47) supposed to do that in almost any (01:01:48) culture on earth, but sometimes it just (01:01:49) sitting there bothers me. Okay? So, I'm (01:01:52) not the I'm not the classiest person on (01:01:54) earth, (01:01:56) but I'll tell you something. If you have (01:01:58) a kid and you have a choice about eating (01:02:00) the ramatan yourself or giving the (01:02:01) rambatan to your child, this it's a (01:02:03) no-brainer. You you're going to enjoy (01:02:04) the ramatan so much more if you give it (01:02:07) to your kid (01:02:09) and you'll see. (01:02:12) >> And that's the way in which this goes on (01:02:14) forever. (01:02:18) That's great. I mean, just how many (01:02:21) young people do I have to yell at? (01:02:25) I don't know if I want to have kids. I (01:02:26) don't want to bring anyone into this (01:02:28) horrible world. (01:02:31) >> Why do you (01:02:31) >> have kids? (01:02:32) >> It bothers you. I can see it personally (01:02:34) bothers you. (01:02:39) >> Do you have any idea how much hate there (01:02:41) is right now for Israel? (01:02:44) Do you have any idea how destabilizing (01:02:46) this action against Iran was? (01:02:50) Do you have any idea how many people (01:02:52) have suffered for how long under the (01:02:55) mullers? (01:02:59) We are being cheated of Persia. (01:03:03) I'm not talking about Iran for the (01:03:05) Persians. I'm talking about we are (01:03:08) cheated of Persia. The entire planet, (01:03:12) one of the greatest societies on earth (01:03:14) taken off the line. (01:03:17) I look (01:03:20) You're catching me on the wrong week. (01:03:26) I I don't want to dwell on it. (01:03:29) This is just incredibly irresponsible. (01:03:31) We're not going to survive this. (01:03:35) Israel is certainly not going to survive (01:03:36) this. (01:03:40) If the Abbramic world does not get its (01:03:42) head out of its ass, if the Christian (01:03:45) world does not start to stand up for (01:03:47) itself without becoming this Christ is (01:03:49) king nightmare. (01:03:52) You know, I was in Tel Aviv before this (01:03:54) all happened and I I just said it from (01:03:56) the stage. Make the Middle East (01:03:57) Christian again. (01:04:02) Does nobody understand their role is (01:04:03) sort of my question. (01:04:07) How can you have Bethlehem without a (01:04:09) strong Christian presence? (01:04:15) >> Have you ever been to the Church of the (01:04:16) Holy Supplr? (01:04:17) >> No. (01:04:18) >> Can I give you another assignment? (01:04:20) >> Yeah. (01:04:20) >> Get off your ass and go. You got the (01:04:22) money. Walk the stations of the cross. (01:04:28) And for God's sakes, stop with the issue (01:04:30) about belief. (01:04:34) You can pray like the rest of us. We're (01:04:36) not sure if we're praying. We're not (01:04:37) sure if the thing is hooked up and (01:04:38) anyone's listening. (01:04:44) You have the right to go back even with (01:04:46) doubt, even with knowledge. And you have (01:04:49) the right to believe about a tomorrow, (01:04:51) you know, where where you're not going (01:04:52) to be, but people are going to be (01:04:54) mentioning your name. (01:04:55) >> When you say that your your people are (01:04:58) under attack, who are you referencing as (01:05:00) your people? (01:05:03) I would in general there's several (01:05:06) groups of people that I would describe (01:05:07) as my people. The Jews would be one, (01:05:10) dyslexics would be another, Americans (01:05:12) would be another, (01:05:14) scientists would be another. It depends (01:05:17) on on what these things think. But right (01:05:19) now, I'm thinking about the Jews and I'm (01:05:21) thinking about the fact that the social (01:05:22) media businesses have lost complete (01:05:25) control of (01:05:28) uh the bot farms and we're just seeing (01:05:30) this unbel I I I feel like I'm living (01:05:33) through the 1930s again. I I we've seen (01:05:36) this movie before. (01:05:38) It doesn't end well. (01:05:41) You know what happened in Gaza is an (01:05:43) unbelievable tragedy. (01:05:47) And that tragedy was partially (01:05:49) architected by the United States of (01:05:51) America shoving a two-state solution (01:05:53) down the throats of Palestinian Arabs (01:05:56) who absolutely do not want a two-state (01:05:58) solution (01:06:05) and the creation in part of the (01:06:08) situation where Israel has a hand, the (01:06:10) US has a hand, the Palestinian Arabs (01:06:12) have a hand. the creation of Hamas (01:06:16) and and the promotion of this just (01:06:19) unbelievable genius Senoir, the leader (01:06:22) of Hamas, who is continuing to best BB (01:06:25) Netanyahu from the grave. (01:06:29) You know, it's just an amazing feat. (01:06:33) Nobody reads anymore, as you know. Um, (01:06:36) there's an old Sherlock Holmes story (01:06:38) called The Problem at Thor Bridge. You (01:06:39) ever heard of it? (01:06:40) >> No. (01:06:41) >> So, you're British. Um, (01:06:44) Sherlock Holmes gets called in on a case (01:06:46) in which (01:06:48) um (01:06:51) there's a murder (01:06:54) and the murder is traced the murder is (01:06:58) traced to this gentleman who still (01:07:00) exists. (01:07:03) Uh (01:07:05) what Sherlock Holmes figures out is that (01:07:08) it's not a murder, it's a suicide in (01:07:10) which the gun will (01:07:14) fall into the river at Thor Bridge (01:07:17) because it's tied to a weight and the (01:07:20) person uses the suicide (01:07:23) to frame someone else. You know, it's (01:07:26) just one of these genius little (01:07:28) vignettes. And that's what Senoir was. (01:07:30) He was a a genius. He he knew he was (01:07:33) going to die. (01:07:34) >> Who was Sinoir? Sinoir is the person who (01:07:36) who's committed suicide. Sinir's suicide (01:07:40) was an IDF assisted suicide. I wrote (01:07:43) about this almost instantly after the (01:07:45) October 7th invasion. It didn't make any (01:07:48) sense that Gaza would undertake such an (01:07:51) act against Israel given the asymmetry. (01:07:54) And what this mirrored was that before (01:07:56) the 1990s. So you think Sinoir committed (01:08:00) suicide to then cause the people of Gaza (01:08:03) to invade Israel on (01:08:05) >> No. (01:08:07) Senoir would be happy enough for all the (01:08:09) Gazins to die. (01:08:11) And so what he did was he architected a (01:08:15) situation in which Israel would be (01:08:17) compelled to respond using the wrong (01:08:20) tools. (01:08:22) He tricked Israel. And you know, I I'm (01:08:26) very confident to to talk about this (01:08:28) because if you check my old tweets, I (01:08:30) say IDF assisted suicide (01:08:33) and monken by proxy and zukwang, right? (01:08:36) And I said these are the concepts. (01:08:37) Familiarize yourself because Israel is (01:08:40) going to invade Gaza (01:08:43) and I knew what was going to happen (01:08:45) because took me like why would you do (01:08:47) this? It doesn't make sense from first (01:08:49) order logic, but third and fourth order (01:08:51) logic, you're like, "Oh, of course it (01:08:53) makes sense." This is hybrid war. The (01:08:55) most important thing for Senoir is (01:08:57) video. (01:09:00) >> Why? (01:09:01) >> Look at the effect of the video. The (01:09:04) video of Gaza (01:09:06) has turned the world to an extent (01:09:08) against Israel that's sort of (01:09:10) inconceivable. (01:09:19) There's a doctrine called hybrid warfare (01:09:22) and I think it came out of (01:09:25) the US in the early 2000s and it says (01:09:28) that the kinetic component of warfare, (01:09:30) the killing, the actual shooting and the (01:09:32) planes and the bombs and all this kind (01:09:34) of stuff (01:09:36) is (01:09:38) not the major component. (01:09:41) The social media is really important. (01:09:43) The video is important. The mimedic (01:09:46) complex is important. (01:09:49) And (01:09:50) Israel has an advantage over the Gazan (01:09:53) Arabs (01:09:56) in kinetic warfare. (01:09:59) And Senoir knew that. He was like, (01:10:00) "Brilliant. (01:10:03) All we need to do is force Israel to (01:10:05) come after us." And this is this thing I (01:10:06) was going to say before the 1990s we had (01:10:09) a spate of killings of policemen firing (01:10:12) on people who had pulled toy guns on (01:10:15) them. And we would we would say things (01:10:17) and I remember this like whatever you do (01:10:19) don't point a toy gun at a policeman. (01:10:21) You're it's don't you realize what's (01:10:23) going to happen? And then somebody (01:10:25) coined the phrase (01:10:28) police assisted suicide. (01:10:31) The policeman is the instrument. (01:10:35) That's what I knew was going to happen. (01:10:38) And for better or for worse, BB just (01:10:40) couldn't figure out where he was. And BB (01:10:44) was dumber and Senoir was smarter. (01:10:47) >> Is there any way back from here? Because (01:10:50) you said this is World War II. (01:10:51) >> Well, the the way there is, but it's (01:10:55) slim and it's evaporating. (01:10:57) >> I mean, almost everything depends on (01:10:59) Saudi Arabia and the and the Iranians, (01:11:02) the Persians. (01:11:04) If the Persians didn't take this (01:11:06) opportunity to rise up against their (01:11:08) oppressors, (01:11:10) I don't know what they're waiting for. (01:11:11) Yes, you're going to get killed in some (01:11:13) numbers, but you have to figure out (01:11:15) whether you're interested in tyranny or (01:11:17) not. So, the Persians are absolutely (01:11:19) falling down on the ground on the job, (01:11:23) not rising up against the mullers. This (01:11:25) is a coordinated moment. Like, you know, (01:11:27) there's there's a moment for a prison (01:11:29) break. This would be it. (01:11:30) >> Who are the mullers in this city? the (01:11:32) Ayatollas, the government. Yeah. The the (01:11:35) theocratic government of Iran. (01:11:37) >> So, the rulers of Iran, basically, the (01:11:38) people that are Okay. (01:11:40) >> So, I don't know if if if you know a ton (01:11:42) of Persians. They're varied in their (01:11:44) religiosity, (01:11:46) but there's a you know, there's an (01:11:47) underground gay scene in Thrron. There's (01:11:49) super hyperodern (01:11:51) people just like you and me who can't (01:11:54) stand these guys. (01:11:56) >> And so, you're saying that if they rise (01:11:57) up, (01:11:58) >> they would that would be one of the (01:11:59) parts of the solution. The other thing (01:12:01) is Saudi Arabia and and I have to be (01:12:04) very measured and careful here. Um, (01:12:07) you can't fantasize about the Middle (01:12:10) East becoming Western Europe overnight. (01:12:13) Every time we do this, we make a (01:12:15) terrible mistake. When you have a (01:12:17) modernizer like MBS in Saudi Arabia, (01:12:20) >> who's the ruler of Saudi Arabia, right? (01:12:22) >> Deacto. (01:12:25) He can't (01:12:27) suddenly become a modern person. So, you (01:12:29) know, if if we end up talking about (01:12:30) Kosogible and murders and murdered (01:12:32) journalists and all this stuff, the (01:12:34) whole conversation will derail. But he's (01:12:36) a modernizer. (01:12:38) And there was a moment where he needed (01:12:41) to not condemn Israel publicly and thank (01:12:44) it privately, (01:12:47) but to say, (01:12:49) "We've all been terrorized by this (01:12:51) country, and Israel did what everyone (01:12:54) needed. (01:12:57) We needed to rise up against the mullers (01:12:59) because you can't have a nuclear (01:13:00) theocracy. (01:13:02) You can't have a highly developed notion (01:13:04) of heaven (01:13:07) where this is the this is the anti- room (01:13:09) where you're waiting to get into the (01:13:11) real room. (01:13:14) that issue (01:13:16) of needing to be rid of an as aspiring (01:13:22) nuclear theocracy (01:13:25) something that in that Israel undertook (01:13:28) now something that I'm going to say (01:13:30) there are three words in Yiddish which (01:13:32) you may have heard or may not may not (01:13:35) and neb (01:13:38) so there are three unfortunate people (01:13:41) you don't want to be any one of those (01:13:42) three but the subtlety is that the (01:13:45) schlamile is a klutz and the schlamile (01:13:48) spills hot soup on the schlamazle. So (01:13:51) the schlamazle is the unfortunate person (01:13:53) to whom bad things happen and the neb is (01:13:57) the weak ineffectual person who decides (01:13:59) that it's his job to clean up the mess. (01:14:02) So the schmile spills the scalding hot (01:14:04) soup on the schlamasle and the neb (01:14:06) cleans it up. Now, in the US, we've got (01:14:10) this terrible sort of Christian (01:14:12) nationalist (01:14:14) uh problem that we've developed, which (01:14:15) is what sometimes people call the woke (01:14:17) right, where we have a bunch of people (01:14:20) who've been badly treated. (01:14:23) White Christian Americans have been (01:14:24) badly treated in the woke era. They've (01:14:27) been forced to salute everybody else's, (01:14:29) you know, yay for uh, you know, I don't (01:14:33) know, Honduran lesbians day. And and (01:14:36) it's like, okay, enough. we don't we (01:14:37) don't want to do that anymore. We've (01:14:38) also done great things and I absolutely (01:14:41) think that they've been mistreated. (01:14:42) Yeah. (01:14:45) And they've gone sort of metastatic and (01:14:47) their attitude is no more wars for (01:14:50) Israel. America first. What I was (01:14:52) getting to with the Schlam Schlamas and (01:14:54) Nebbeck is that most Americans don't (01:14:57) have any idea who Kermit Roosevelt was. (01:14:59) Do you have any idea of who? (01:15:02) So the US and the UK jointly overthrew a (01:15:07) democratically elector in Iran through (01:15:09) something called Operation Ajax. (01:15:12) We installed the Shaw and then there's (01:15:14) this period where everybody stupidly (01:15:16) celebrates the miniskirts and the jazz (01:15:18) that was going through Tyrron (01:15:21) which was a bridge too far. In other (01:15:23) words, the miniskirts were a really bad (01:15:24) idea because they weren't they were (01:15:27) ready for some amount of modernization (01:15:29) and they weren't ready for that. And so (01:15:31) we pushed it too far and so we got the (01:15:33) mullers for 40 years and now we chop off (01:15:36) people's fingers and we pluck out (01:15:38) people's eyes and we put homosexuals on (01:15:41) ropes and dangle them from from cranes. (01:15:43) They're barbaric bar they're horrible (01:15:46) human beings. Okay, these are really bad (01:15:48) men, the mullers. (01:15:51) And we did that. So the scalding hot (01:15:54) soup is revolutionary (01:15:59) theocratic Iran. And we spilled it all (01:16:02) over the Middle East, which is the (01:16:04) schlamazle. (01:16:06) We spilled it on Saudi Arabia. We (01:16:07) spilled it on Iraq. We spilled it on (01:16:10) Israel. Everybody suffers from having (01:16:13) these people installed because of the US (01:16:16) and the UK instituting a problem back in (01:16:19) the 50s. And who's the ne (01:16:23) who cleans this up? Israel volunteers (01:16:26) for this job. (01:16:29) And then Saudi Arabia pretends, "Oh my (01:16:31) god, this is terrible. (01:16:33) Our our Muslim brother is being attacked (01:16:35) by our Jewish uh barbarian. I I I just (01:16:39) can't believe anybody's dumb enough to (01:16:41) fall for all of this. (01:16:45) Like, we're involved in a story where (01:16:47) nobody can sort things out. There's no (01:16:49) talking heads anyone believes in. And if (01:16:51) I didn't understand this, then how is it (01:16:53) that I have a tweet from, you know, 10 (01:16:57) days after October 7th or I appeared on (01:16:59) trigonometry. I'm telling you, Israel (01:17:01) hasn't even walked into Gaza yet. And I (01:17:03) know what the strategy is. (01:17:07) Iran sent hypersonic missiles into the (01:17:10) ground in Israel as a message. (01:17:14) Violence is a language. And they spoke (01:17:17) it well. the the mullers may be crazy, (01:17:19) but they're still Persians. They're (01:17:21) they're extraordinarily skilled. And so (01:17:24) what they did is they wasted some of (01:17:26) their arsenal saying, "You have no Iron (01:17:28) Dome. (01:17:31) And we're not going to kill you. We're (01:17:33) going to put our missiles, we're going (01:17:35) to waste our missiles by sending them (01:17:36) into your Earth and try to kill no one." (01:17:39) And the Israelis, these brilliant, (01:17:42) genius Israelis who pull off all sorts (01:17:44) of things that the world can't believe, (01:17:47) are dumb enough, some of them, to say, (01:17:49) "Huh, they sent all these missiles and (01:17:51) they couldn't even hit anyone." And I'm (01:17:53) just thinking, (01:17:55) do do none of you understand anything? I (01:17:58) I just don't even know where I am. (01:18:03) And I'm looking at, you know, I I know (01:18:05) Tulsi. (01:18:07) >> Tulsi got it. Yeah, Tulsi is amazing. (01:18:10) >> She's the head of the intelligence (01:18:11) program for the United States. (01:18:14) >> Director of national intelligence, (01:18:16) right? (01:18:18) Tulsi has seen the devastation not of (01:18:21) war, but of US action abroad. Like we (01:18:25) haven't really had full wars, but we get (01:18:27) involved in Afghanistan or Iraq or (01:18:29) wherever. And and you know, people die (01:18:31) and there are firefights. It's not like (01:18:33) it has nothing to do with war, but (01:18:34) full-on war is is a very different (01:18:36) thing. We we say the Iraq war, but I I I (01:18:39) want to be very careful about the (01:18:41) language. You know, war usually involves (01:18:44) you getting rocked at home, not just (01:18:47) your your troops abroad. (01:18:51) I don't think she (01:18:55) I don't think she appreciates the (01:18:56) gravity of the situation that somehow (01:18:58) what we need to do is we need to (01:19:00) stabilize this thing for 50 to 100 years (01:19:04) while we desperately try to figure out a (01:19:06) long-term solution. (01:19:09) This idea of like just (01:19:14) we're not taking responsibility for the (01:19:16) world we already screwed up. (01:19:19) I don't want to send Americans I, you (01:19:21) know, I'm not an Israeli, I'm an (01:19:23) American. I don't want to send my fellow (01:19:25) Americans to die in foreign battles that (01:19:28) we have no business being in. But we (01:19:31) have to take ownership of our history (01:19:33) with oil and energy in the Middle East. (01:19:35) And (01:19:36) >> what does that look like? Taking (01:19:37) ownership? (01:19:38) >> Recognizing that we created the mullas (01:19:41) >> and doing what about it? (01:19:42) >> And wait, wait a second, not just that. (01:19:43) and that we also created a lot of the (01:19:45) heartache along with Sinoir and to a (01:19:49) much lesser extent Israel by forcing (01:19:52) this two-state solution (01:19:55) on people who would never put up with (01:19:57) it. Like I I lived in in Israel for two (01:20:00) years, and you would have conversations (01:20:02) with Arabs, (01:20:04) some of whom are Israelis, (01:20:07) you know, and they would say, "Look, you (01:20:08) know, you just don't understand the West (01:20:10) Bank, and you don't understand the (01:20:11) difference between the West Bank and (01:20:12) Gaza, (01:20:14) and they would tell me straight up, (01:20:17) you're going to get us all killed with (01:20:18) this two-state solution. Stop it." (01:20:23) And I, you know, it's very hard for me (01:20:25) to hear, (01:20:27) but we're just having a child's (01:20:29) conversation about the Middle East. (01:20:33) And I will say this about the UK. (01:20:37) The British Foreign Service had a (01:20:39) different failure mode than the US. They (01:20:41) really learned the regions. (01:20:44) They learned the dialects of the (01:20:46) languages of the countries that they (01:20:48) were involved in. The British Empire (01:20:50) took many places that they were involved (01:20:54) in seriously and they have a very (01:20:55) complicated legacy. You know, I'm I (01:20:58) spent a lot of time in Bombay and (01:21:00) there's a lot of debate among very (01:21:02) educated Indians (01:21:05) about figuring out how to think about (01:21:07) the the British legacy, all of the great (01:21:09) institutional structures that were (01:21:11) built, all of the prejudice and bigotry. (01:21:14) Why was such a small country able to (01:21:17) colonize such a large land? Basically (01:21:19) working with the locals. You know, it's (01:21:21) a rich conversation. We're having (01:21:23) childlike conversations about all of (01:21:25) this. (01:21:27) I'm sorry if I'm going on about this, (01:21:28) but (01:21:31) it's just a very weird thing that we're (01:21:33) we can't get anybody's attention. (01:21:37) You can't even get my attention. You (01:21:38) know, I'm watching hypersonic missiles (01:21:41) slam into the places I just was (01:21:47) and then I'm watching a cat video (01:21:52) and then I'm trying to figure out what (01:21:53) to order through Uber Eats and it's just (01:21:55) like I can't stay focused. (01:21:59) It's really important to put this um to (01:22:02) put this right. And the US screwed up (01:22:04) the Middle East along with the UK really (01:22:07) good. And we have a lot of (01:22:08) responsibility. And if we want to go (01:22:10) isolationist, I understand that. But you (01:22:13) first have to put back the chicken soup (01:22:15) that you spilled. (01:22:16) >> And how'd you do that? (01:22:18) >> I'm not sure. I'm not the director of (01:22:20) national intelligence. I'm not I'm not (01:22:23) the secretary of defense. I'm not in the (01:22:25) Oval Office. I mean, you know, it's very (01:22:27) weird. I was workmates with JD Vance, (01:22:31) you know. (01:22:33) These these are people who are, (01:22:36) you know, Bobby Kennedy lives one canyon (01:22:38) over from me in Los Angeles. (01:22:41) The people around (01:22:44) power in the US, (01:22:50) Godspeed, you know, just just wish them (01:22:52) well. I don't care what party you're in, (01:22:55) but to to try to sabotage Trump or (01:22:58) sabotage Tulsi or sabotage Pete Hex, I (01:23:02) these guys need to figure this out and (01:23:04) they need to be at a totally different (01:23:05) level. (01:23:06) >> And is figuring it out peace in the (01:23:08) region, (01:23:10) >> you know, the peace with between Egypt (01:23:13) and Israel is a shitty, crappy, horrible (01:23:15) peace, but it's peace. (01:23:19) It's not a loving relationship. (01:23:22) It's not a question of everybody going (01:23:24) back and forth between the two countries (01:23:25) saying, you know, we used to be enemies, (01:23:28) now we're friends. It's a lousy, cold (01:23:30) peace. I'll take it. (01:23:34) We need to have peace between Israel and (01:23:36) the Palestinian Arabs who can live in (01:23:38) peace. And we need the people who cannot (01:23:41) live in peace. We need to find someplace (01:23:43) else for them to be. (01:23:46) It is absolutely imperative. And by the (01:23:48) way, this goes for the Israelis. there (01:23:50) are small number of hardcore Israeli (01:23:52) settlers who cannot live uh you know in (01:23:55) peace with their neighbors and it's very (01:23:58) important that the people who cannot (01:23:59) live in peace not be there. (01:24:01) >> Do we need to go to are are you (01:24:03) suggesting that we (01:24:06) focus on regime change in Iran? (01:24:10) >> That is really the responsibility of the (01:24:12) Persians. (01:24:13) >> So I want to I want to get clear on what (01:24:16) you see as a solution because you're (01:24:17) saying the Persian people have to rise (01:24:19) up. the US need to care but not get (01:24:21) involved in that regime change. (01:24:24) >> I'm saying that a bunch of things need (01:24:27) to happen if we're to have a long-term (01:24:29) solution. (01:24:29) >> I make you president tomorrow. (01:24:31) >> I hate when people do this. (01:24:33) >> But I it's the clearest way of (01:24:34) understanding the actions you would (01:24:36) >> First of all, if I was president (01:24:37) tomorrow, I sure as hell wouldn't be on (01:24:38) a podcast discussing strategy with you. (01:24:41) >> Trump does it. (01:24:43) >> Yeah. I decline to answer all sorts of (01:24:45) questions on camera. (01:24:46) >> Fair. (01:24:46) >> Yeah. So my feeling is is that you do a (01:24:49) lot more behind closed doors and this (01:24:51) idea of just handing people you're the (01:24:54) king of the world. What do you do (01:24:55) tomorrow to stop you? It's like don't do (01:24:57) that to me because it's just it's a (01:24:59) no-win question. If I was going to I I (01:25:01) do a lot of Straussian communication. (01:25:03) I'd meet with people in private. I'd use (01:25:06) lots of carrots and sticks. I try to use (01:25:08) long range thinking and I wouldn't tell (01:25:10) you what my plan is. And by the way, I (01:25:13) very much respect Donald Trump in (01:25:15) certain ways. One of which is is that (01:25:17) and this confuses our friend Sam Harris (01:25:19) no end. Sam is always like, "Well, he's (01:25:22) not being truthful. He's not making (01:25:23) sense." He's a negotiator. (01:25:25) You don't sit down to a negotiation with (01:25:27) an open book saying, "Let me make sense (01:25:30) to you." (01:25:32) You sit there saying, "You don't know (01:25:33) what I'm going to do next. You don't (01:25:34) know how big the stick is. You don't (01:25:36) know how much carrot there is. Maybe I'm (01:25:39) prepared to give you more. Maybe my (01:25:41) stick isn't as big as you think. Or (01:25:42) maybe it's twice as big." Do you think (01:25:44) anyone has good answers? (01:25:47) >> I'll be honest. I think that Trump is in (01:25:50) part respected because he has some (01:25:52) intuitions about this stuff. (01:25:56) His intuition is not to say everything. (01:25:59) His intuition is that negotiation is (01:26:01) more important than transparency. (01:26:04) And at a time when everybody's craving (01:26:07) transparency, tell me everything. (01:26:10) No, I'm not going to tell you (01:26:12) everything. (01:26:13) I'm going to try to save some children (01:26:15) today. (01:26:16) I'm going to threaten. I'm going to (01:26:18) cajol. (01:26:21) I'm going to do all sorts of things. And (01:26:23) and you know, that's what I'd do. I (01:26:26) would I would assemble the best people (01:26:27) around me. I would stop giving so many (01:26:30) press conferences. I wouldn't tweet (01:26:32) every 4 seconds. I'd be extremely (01:26:34) strategic about it. (01:26:37) But (01:26:39) you know, the situation in Tel Aviv and (01:26:42) in Gaza makes me sick to my stomach. (01:26:47) And and in Ukraine, (01:26:50) almost all of my DNA comes from Ukraine. (01:26:54) At least passed through it. (01:26:57) I've been there. (01:27:00) And you know, (01:27:04) Russians in Ukraine, Ukraine used to be (01:27:06) known as little Russia. (01:27:10) This is a How are we sitting here (01:27:12) watching this? (01:27:15) What [ __ ] decided in 2004 (01:27:19) that we were just going to hand full (01:27:21) Article 5 status (01:27:24) to former Soviet (01:27:26) republics without consequence. (01:27:32) It is not the case that I don't I would (01:27:35) love to have Estonia, Latvia, and (01:27:38) Lithuania in NATO. (01:27:41) Not at this cost. (01:27:47) Look, (01:27:51) the world is a brutal, brutal place. (01:27:56) We've gotten really bad at at (01:27:58) international (01:28:00) understandings. (01:28:04) I can't stand what's happened to Europe. (01:28:06) Europe has been completely denatured. (01:28:12) We're we're playing with fire (01:28:13) everywhere. And I just I don't know how (01:28:15) to talk about it because every time I (01:28:18) talk about things where I'm the only (01:28:19) person who sounds like this, (01:28:23) it's bad for my life. (01:28:27) Look, if if you're in general a Ukraine (01:28:29) hawk and you say, you know, we need to (01:28:32) make sure that Ukraine is completely (01:28:34) supported so that they don't give an (01:28:35) inch of territory. Yeah, you'll take a (01:28:37) lot of crap, but you'll be in a large (01:28:38) group. (01:28:40) And if you basically have the idea that (01:28:42) Russia, you know, was minding its own (01:28:44) business and the US was encircling it (01:28:47) and good Russia, bad US, (01:28:50) you'll have a lot of company for that (01:28:52) perspective. (01:28:54) I don't sound like any of that. (01:28:57) The most important thing is to stabilize (01:28:59) the world again. And we're not going to (01:29:00) get another chance like World War II if (01:29:02) we're not smart. We're crazy to give up (01:29:05) this order that we have. And again, you (01:29:08) know, one more time I'm talking about (01:29:09) this stuff. And I don't want to be (01:29:11) talking about this stuff. Elon is 100% (01:29:13) right. We can't talk about problems all (01:29:15) the time. It's cheap meaning. (01:29:20) There's an entire universe to explore (01:29:24) and we're sitting here focused on our (01:29:26) own drama always and I'm getting sucked (01:29:29) into it. I don't want (01:29:32) I want to be talking about traveling (01:29:35) through time and space (01:29:38) using (01:29:39) Easter eggs and hidden features of what (01:29:42) we thought was the space-time continuum. (01:29:44) Because I talked about ketosis on this (01:29:46) podcast and ketones, a brand called (01:29:48) Ketone IQ sent me their little product (01:29:50) here and it was on my desk when I got to (01:29:52) the office. I picked it up. It sat on my (01:29:54) desk for a couple of weeks. Then one day (01:29:56) I tried it and honestly I have not (01:29:59) looked back ever since. I now have this (01:30:02) everywhere I go. When I travel all (01:30:04) around the world, it's in my hotel room. (01:30:05) My team will put it there. Before I did (01:30:06) the podcast recording today that I've (01:30:08) just finished, I had a shot of Ketone (01:30:11) IQ. 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And (01:30:49) that means you have value. Stand, the (01:30:52) platform I co-own, who are one of the (01:30:53) sponsors of this podcast, turns your (01:30:55) knowledge into a business through one (01:30:57) single click. You can sell digital (01:30:59) products, coaching, communities, and you (01:31:01) don't need any coding experience either, (01:31:03) just the drive to start. This is a (01:31:06) business I really believe in. And (01:31:07) already $300 million has been earned by (01:31:10) creators, coaches, and entrepreneurs (01:31:12) just like you have the potential to be (01:31:13) on Stan's store. These are people who (01:31:15) didn't wait, who heard me saying things (01:31:16) like this, and instead of (01:31:17) procrastinating, started building, then (01:31:19) launched something, and now they're (01:31:21) getting paid to do it. Stan is (01:31:22) incredibly simple and incredibly easy. (01:31:24) And you can link it with a Shopify store (01:31:26) that you're already using if you want (01:31:27) to. I'm on it, and so is my girlfriend (01:31:29) and many of my team. So, if you want to (01:31:31) join, start by launching your own (01:31:32) business with a free 30-day trial. Visit (01:31:35) stephvenbartlet.stan.store (01:31:37) and get yours set up within minutes. (01:31:39) I've got this uh (01:31:41) this picture that I came across. (01:31:44) >> Tell me. (01:31:45) >> Um well, I'd love you to tell me. This (01:31:47) is the flower of life geometric model. (01:31:50) And I was I was reading through some of (01:31:53) your work and I came across this (01:31:54) sentence that said you'd kept a secret (01:31:56) for 30 years (01:31:59) in terms of your belief about the nature (01:32:01) of the reality that we live in and that (01:32:02) you thought maybe it was more than just (01:32:04) the dimensions we experience. Maybe (01:32:06) there was 14 dimensions. (01:32:09) I've always I wonder this a lot, you (01:32:10) know, because we we're fixated on (01:32:12) problems. We're fixated on what we see (01:32:14) and what we hear and what we feel. But I (01:32:16) wonder sometimes if if even that is an (01:32:18) illusion. I I've spent a lot of time (01:32:20) actually thinking recently about the (01:32:21) simulation theory and is this whole (01:32:23) reality just some simulation on some (01:32:25) kid's video game in another dimension. (01:32:28) Um so I thought you know you're a (01:32:29) physicist. (01:32:30) >> Do me a favor. Put that in a triangle (01:32:32) pattern here. Okay. So we have three (01:32:33) mugs. (01:32:35) Think of those as vertices of a (01:32:37) tetrahedrin and think of this coaster (01:32:39) floating here as the fourth vertex. (01:32:42) >> Mhm. (01:32:43) >> For every two vertices. So the number of (01:32:47) vertices we would agree is four. (01:32:49) >> Yeah. What's what does verticy mean? (01:32:51) >> Points. (01:32:52) >> Yeah. 1 2 3 four. (01:32:53) >> Idealize these three things and this as (01:32:56) points. (01:32:56) >> Mhm. (01:32:57) >> Draw a line segment between all of these (01:33:00) four vertices. How many line segments (01:33:03) are there? (01:33:04) >> One, two, three, four, five, six. Six. (01:33:11) >> Yep. So there's six edges, four (01:33:14) vertices. How many triangular faces that (01:33:17) have three vertices on them? (01:33:20) >> Oh, four. (01:33:21) >> Yeah. This is how to think about the (01:33:22) actual dimensions that we have open to (01:33:24) us. The four faces we know about. (01:33:28) The key point that I was trying to get (01:33:29) at is I don't believe that you just have (01:33:32) the four dimensions. I believe that you (01:33:35) have all six edges are dimensions (01:33:39) and all four vertices are also (01:33:43) dimensions. (01:33:45) I'm talking about a hidden world. (01:33:49) It's very interesting. Physics has gone (01:33:51) stagnant in terms of how we usually (01:33:54) measure progress. The the way we measure (01:33:56) progress is the change in something (01:33:58) called the action or the lrangeian the (01:34:01) specialized device and that used to (01:34:03) change a lot and then in 1973 it stopped (01:34:06) changing. (01:34:08) The major thing that we have is we have (01:34:10) no new ideas about how to change the (01:34:13) lrangeian that anybody finds that (01:34:16) exciting or interesting. So there's been (01:34:18) no progress. Nobody goes to Stockholm to (01:34:20) get a Nobel Prize because they changed (01:34:22) the lrangeian of the world. (01:34:24) >> What's the langrian? (01:34:25) >> The lrangeian. (01:34:27) So you probably think about physics in (01:34:30) terms of equations like Maxwell's (01:34:32) equations or the Einstein equations or (01:34:34) whatever. (01:34:36) Think about an equation (01:34:39) as being not the primary thing that (01:34:42) physicists think about. So I give this (01:34:45) example. The Beatles had four basically (01:34:48) different configurations. (01:34:50) When Ringo was the front man, he was (01:34:53) singing Octopus's Garden. George (01:34:55) Harrison is singing While My Guitar (01:34:58) Gently Weeps. You know, uh Paul is (01:35:01) singing about Penny Lane and John is (01:35:02) singing about Strawberry Fields Forever. (01:35:05) Those four equations, (01:35:07) those would be those different (01:35:09) configurations of the Beatles with one (01:35:11) of them front and everybody else backing (01:35:13) the front man (01:35:15) would be the equations. But the Beatles (01:35:17) would be the Lrangeian. It's the thing (01:35:19) that generates the four different (01:35:21) configurations. (01:35:22) >> Okay? And there's this bizarre force (01:35:24) field that anybody who wants to talk (01:35:26) about physics and doing something new in (01:35:30) particular leaving or traversing time (01:35:34) or multiple dimensions of time. Anything (01:35:37) that's really close to what might be (01:35:40) possible gets slammed. (01:35:44) We don't know why (01:35:47) because it's very cheap to explore ideas (01:35:50) and we have no new ideas. (01:35:54) But the only thing about a new idea in (01:35:55) physics is that a new idea changes the (01:35:58) balance of power in the world. Do you (01:36:00) remember the thing I was saying about (01:36:01) Alpha Fold 3? (01:36:03) >> Yeah. (01:36:03) >> Alpha Fold 3 changed the balance of (01:36:05) power in the world. Bitcoin changed the (01:36:07) balance of power in the world. The (01:36:09) diffuse proposal (01:36:12) from the ecoalth alliance (01:36:14) changed the balance of power in the (01:36:16) world if that was the source of the co (01:36:18) virus. (01:36:20) Anytime somebody has a really big idea (01:36:23) and the biggest idea and you know I talk (01:36:26) about this people don't grasp it (01:36:28) probably the most dangerous thought (01:36:30) anyone has ever had (01:36:33) was Rutherford in 1911 saying I wonder (01:36:37) whether (01:36:39) there's a neutral version of the proton. (01:36:44) It doesn't sound dangerous, (01:36:48) but it's hard to send a proton into a (01:36:51) bunch of protons because it's positively (01:36:52) charged and a massive nucleus is really (01:36:55) positively charged. And so there's a (01:36:56) repulsion. (01:36:58) If there's a neutral version of the (01:37:00) proton, and these things are barely (01:37:01) stuck together with a strong force, even (01:37:04) though they're trying to scream away (01:37:05) from each other because they want (01:37:06) they're all positively charged, you can (01:37:08) send a neutral version of the proton (01:37:10) right into the center. (01:37:12) tap and just imagine you have a bunch of (01:37:14) magnets that are trying to flee from (01:37:15) each other and the velcro around them is (01:37:17) barely holding it together. So now you (01:37:20) you have a bullet in the form of a (01:37:22) neutral proton, a neutron, and it hits (01:37:24) this thing where the magnets want to (01:37:25) come apart and the velcro is barely (01:37:27) holding it together. Well, that idea (01:37:30) led to the chain reaction (01:37:34) >> and the nuclear bomb. (01:37:35) >> Well, that that was the fision bomb and (01:37:37) then a geometer. So I'm a geometer and (01:37:41) not a physicist. And a physicist named (01:37:44) Edward Teller and the geometer is named (01:37:45) Stannis Loss Ulong (01:37:49) said, "I wonder if there's a way to take (01:37:52) the chemical bomb that creates the (01:37:55) fision bomb and use the fision bomb as (01:37:58) the detonator for a fusion bomb." (01:38:02) So bomb number one, bomb number two, (01:38:04) bomb number three. And what they figured (01:38:07) out was is that the only way to create (01:38:10) that (01:38:12) is to reflect light (01:38:14) in a particular way to compress (01:38:18) hydrogen into helium and release (01:38:21) energy (01:38:22) because anything other than light (01:38:24) wouldn't get to this the tertiary stage (01:38:28) fast enough before the atomic bomb like (01:38:31) you're using a Hiroshima Nagasaki as a (01:38:33) detonator. That's how crazy it is. (01:38:36) So that chain of ideas, which is maybe (01:38:39) there's a neutral version of the proton, (01:38:42) maybe I can send that into the middle of (01:38:44) an atom that's very heavy that was built (01:38:45) in a stellar collision. (01:38:48) Maybe if I have a bunch of those uranium (01:38:50) or plutonium type things, each one when (01:38:52) they break apart will have more neutrons (01:38:54) inside. That is more neutral protons (01:38:56) that will hit more nuclei that will (01:38:59) release more energy. And maybe that can (01:39:01) then focus the light, the gamma (01:39:03) radiation that comes off of this thing (01:39:05) or who knows what (01:39:07) to compress a narrow rod to create (01:39:11) fusion which only occurs on the sun in (01:39:13) the sun but but do it on Earth. So we're (01:39:16) going to take a little bit of the sun on (01:39:18) Earth. That chain of ideas (01:39:22) was the most dangerous thing anybody's (01:39:24) ever thought. (01:39:27) And that's why when you try to do (01:39:28) physics, you don't know. Why are people (01:39:31) making fun of me? Why are they being (01:39:33) mean? Why are they dissuading me from (01:39:35) talking? I don't know. (01:39:37) >> You have a suspicion. (01:39:39) >> Well, there was a guy named Jack Raper, (01:39:42) the unfortunately named Mr. Jack Raper, (01:39:44) who was a reporter in Cleveland (01:39:47) who for some reason during the war in (01:39:49) 1944 decided to vacation in New Mexico. (01:39:53) So he goes to New Mexico and he comes (01:39:55) back and he says, "I've got a crazy (01:39:56) story. (01:39:58) There's a city that nobody knows about (01:40:00) with a mayor who's supposed to be the (01:40:03) second Einstein (01:40:05) and it's the most secretive city in the (01:40:07) world. And the mayor is working on a (01:40:09) doomsday weapon and even the people who (01:40:11) live in the city don't know what it is." (01:40:14) And he writes the story of Los Alamos (01:40:16) and publishes it in 1944. (01:40:18) The scoop of the millennium to say (01:40:21) nothing of the century. Nobody knows (01:40:22) about this article and it's called (01:40:24) Forbidden City. (01:40:28) >> We pretended that it never happened. (01:40:31) >> For those that don't know, Los Alamos is (01:40:33) where the atomic the nuclear bomb was, I (01:40:36) guess, conceived and brought to life and (01:40:39) tested. (01:40:40) >> Well, it was really it was really (01:40:42) designed there and most of the nuclear (01:40:47) processing took place at other sites, (01:40:49) whether Hanford or Oakidge, I'm not (01:40:51) sure. (01:40:52) And it was tested a short distance away (01:40:56) uh at the Trinity site. So go watch the (01:40:59) movie Oenheimer if you will. But this is (01:41:01) why physics physicists are the only (01:41:04) occupation in the country that doesn't (01:41:06) have full free speech. (01:41:08) So, are you suggesting that there's (01:41:10) dangers in believing in more dimensions (01:41:13) that maybe some people might not want to (01:41:17) be known in the same way that we didn't (01:41:19) want the (01:41:20) >> My point is I don't think our government (01:41:24) knows the real secrets of physics. If I (01:41:27) had to make a bet tomorrow, I don't (01:41:29) think there's a secret government office (01:41:31) that knows physics. (01:41:34) >> Okay. Mhm. (01:41:36) >> I think that there were a bunch of very (01:41:38) smart people who knew how dangerous (01:41:40) physics was and that the idea that we (01:41:42) would continue to do it in public struck (01:41:45) them as insane (01:41:48) >> because it could lead to destruction. (01:41:50) >> When I tell you that the most dangerous (01:41:52) idea in human history is maybe there's a (01:41:54) neutral version of the proton, that's (01:41:55) supposed to sound insane. (01:41:58) But the entire chain of ideas results (01:42:03) in nuclear fusion happening on Earth at (01:42:07) the direction of the president of the (01:42:08) United States. And that's what I'm (01:42:10) trying to get at which people don't (01:42:12) understand which is you probably don't (01:42:14) even realize that the department of (01:42:16) energy is really the department of (01:42:17) physics (01:42:19) because we we we pretend that it's the (01:42:22) department of energy. Like we had a war (01:42:24) department that became the department of (01:42:25) defense. We're scared of the possibility (01:42:27) of physics. (01:42:28) >> We don't even want to talk about it. (01:42:32) The the literally no other occupation (01:42:38) has lost free speech like physics. (01:42:42) There's a special doctrine called (01:42:44) restricted data that says you cannot (01:42:51) write physics on a napkin (01:42:55) even if you have nothing to do with the (01:42:56) government. I think even if you're not (01:42:58) an American (01:43:01) if it has anything that could possibly (01:43:03) have to do with nuclear weapons. In (01:43:05) other words, any advance (01:43:08) that might have to do with nuclear (01:43:09) weapons, (01:43:11) you have to recognize that the instant (01:43:14) you put pen to paper or you start (01:43:15) talking to somebody, you're committing (01:43:19) a violation of the 1917 Espionage Act. (01:43:22) And if you think that's crazy, start (01:43:24) exploring the words restricted data, (01:43:26) 1917 Espionage Act, 1946 and 1954 Atomic (01:43:30) Energy Acts, the doctrine of born (01:43:33) secret. (01:43:36) It is illegal to pursue Q clearance data (01:43:39) if you don't have a Q clearance. But if (01:43:41) you're creating Q clearance data out of (01:43:43) your own head as a byproduct of trying (01:43:46) to do physics, (01:43:48) you are actually potentially committing (01:43:50) a capital offense. (01:43:52) >> And your theory of everything, your (01:43:54) theory, the theory you just talked to me (01:43:55) about there, what does that mean for the (01:43:57) for the average person that's listening (01:43:58) to this in terms of that they should (01:44:01) >> Well, this is my point. Did Rutherford (01:44:04) know what he was doing? (01:44:06) >> No. (01:44:07) >> So, I talk about this a lot, but I do (01:44:09) think it's probably one of the greatest (01:44:10) lyrics ever in any song. And (01:44:14) unfortunately, it occurs in a song that (01:44:17) got way too popular. Um, (01:44:20) the baffled king composing Hallelujah. (01:44:23) That line, (01:44:25) a baffled king does not realize what he (01:44:28) is doing when he composes. Rutherford (01:44:31) was a baffled king. (01:44:33) Maybe there is a neutral version of the (01:44:35) proton. (01:44:37) He was composing the end of the human (01:44:39) race. (01:44:40) >> And your ideas about the nature of (01:44:42) reality. (01:44:42) >> I'm a baffled person. (01:44:44) >> And your proposal. (01:44:46) >> I am baffled. I don't know what it leads (01:44:49) to is what I'm trying to tell you. (01:44:50) >> But your assertion is that there's more (01:44:52) than this dimension that we understand (01:44:53) and more than (01:44:54) >> I'm telling you that I can name for you (01:44:56) what particles there are left to be (01:44:58) found. (01:44:59) >> Mhm. And the what comes back to me (01:45:04) is you don't have any predictions. And (01:45:06) I'm thinking (01:45:09) this doesn't even make sense. (01:45:11) Literally, I'm telling you there are (01:45:14) maybe there's a neutral version of the (01:45:15) proton doesn't begin to talk about all (01:45:17) the things that I'm talking about. (01:45:20) So many new forces, so many new (01:45:22) particles, ways to go in. There's no (01:45:25) longer an arrow of time in my theory. (01:45:29) So you could live forever theoretically. (01:45:31) >> What does it mean (01:45:35) if if you think about a final theory? (01:45:38) And again, by the way, I just want to (01:45:39) say something. I say my theory sometimes (01:45:42) when I'm having to defend it, but it (01:45:44) isn't mine. It it it just is. (01:45:50) You know, Everest didn't belong (01:45:54) to Sir Edmund Hillary or to Mallerie or (01:45:57) even to the surveyor for whom the (01:45:59) mountain is named. (01:46:01) When you chose to make the first descent (01:46:04) on Everest, (01:46:07) you just chose a route and then you e (01:46:09) either did or did not traverse the (01:46:11) route. We don't know whether Mallalerie (01:46:12) may have succeeded, but my point is that (01:46:16) this isn't my theory. (01:46:19) There is a theory that's there. It might (01:46:22) be wrong. It's possible. I may have (01:46:25) screwed it up, (01:46:27) but (01:46:30) it's got so much in it that I have no (01:46:33) idea what it means. (01:46:34) >> And the simple way to understand this (01:46:36) theory is that there's dimensions that (01:46:37) exist beyond the ones that we know. (01:46:39) >> We already know from Einstein that these (01:46:42) dimensions are implicitly in Einstein's (01:46:45) theory. Every single dimension that I'm (01:46:48) talking about is being constructed out (01:46:52) of the four that we began with. When I (01:46:54) put the cups here and the coaster, (01:46:58) the edges were calculated from the (01:47:01) vertices and the faces were calculated (01:47:03) from the edges. (01:47:04) >> My point being these dimensions are (01:47:06) already here. (01:47:09) And because the dimensions are already (01:47:11) here, they were already present in (01:47:13) Einstein's theory all along. When you (01:47:15) ask for what Einstein's real equation (01:47:18) is, we actually don't think about it (01:47:20) that way. We call it the Einstein field (01:47:22) equations plural. How many of them are (01:47:25) there? 10. Why are there 10? (01:47:30) Because there are (01:47:32) six edges (01:47:35) and four vertices that weren't accounted (01:47:38) for. They're already in Einstein's (01:47:40) theory. (01:47:44) We just didn't take them seriously as (01:47:46) directions you could go in. (01:47:48) >> You've heard about this simulation (01:47:49) theory, haven't you? (01:47:51) >> Well, I don't want to talk about it (01:47:52) >> really. (01:47:53) >> Well, again, it's the LLM problem. The (01:47:56) really interesting thing comes from I (01:47:59) don't know. And maybe the maybe the (01:48:01) cosmos is traversible. (01:48:04) Maybe times travel replaces time travel. (01:48:12) You see, if I flip all of the dimensions (01:48:15) of time and space, so I have one of (01:48:19) time, three of space in Einstein's (01:48:20) theory. Okay, the time dimension gets a (01:48:22) minus sign. The three spatial dimensions (01:48:24) get a plus sign. (01:48:25) >> And the three spatial dimensions are (01:48:26) >> X, Y, and Z. (01:48:27) >> Yeah, (01:48:28) >> zed, forgive me. (01:48:29) >> Which is for for a simple person, (01:48:32) >> depth, width, and height. (01:48:33) >> Yeah, you can go like forward, (01:48:34) backwards, up, down. (01:48:35) >> Right. (01:48:36) >> Okay. So, we have three dimensions (01:48:37) there. And then we have one of time (01:48:38) because the conversation takes place (01:48:40) over time. You're moving around. (01:48:43) Now flip (01:48:46) the time dimension to being plus when it (01:48:48) was minus before and all the plus (01:48:50) dimensions to being minus. So I have now (01:48:52) I have three time dimensions and one (01:48:54) space dimension. It would look exactly (01:48:57) the same. (01:49:01) The one space dimension would take the (01:49:03) function of time and the three time (01:49:05) dimensions would have the function of (01:49:06) space. We don't even teach people the (01:49:09) idea (01:49:11) that there is not necessarily an arrow (01:49:13) of time if time is not one-dimensional. (01:49:18) The only dimension that has an arrow is (01:49:22) one. If something has one dimension, you (01:49:25) can say, (01:49:27) and you know, I tried to do this on (01:49:28) Rogan. I said, "If you have a cassette (01:49:29) tape and you want to go back to an (01:49:32) earlier song, again, your younger (01:49:34) listeners will have no idea what we're (01:49:36) talking about." Um, you have to go back (01:49:39) through all of the songs before, but if (01:49:42) you have a stylus on a turntable, some (01:49:45) of them will be hipsters with vinyl in (01:49:46) their own homes. You can lift the stylus (01:49:49) up and it doesn't need to go back and (01:49:52) unplay each song in reverse. (01:49:55) >> Mhm. (01:49:56) >> Okay. You may be able to go back in time (01:49:58) without going back through time. (01:50:04) I don't know what this means, but it's a (01:50:06) lot like saying maybe there's a neutral (01:50:08) version of the proton. Now, what I'm (01:50:10) concerned about is that essentially none (01:50:13) of my physics friends know that there is (01:50:15) a doctrine of restricted data. They've (01:50:17) never heard of the 1946 and 54 atomic (01:50:19) energy acts. They don't know that the (01:50:22) department of energy that funds them is (01:50:24) really the the department of physics. (01:50:26) They don't know the extent to which we (01:50:28) went to hide all of this stuff. They (01:50:30) don't know that they're not allowed to (01:50:31) talk to foreign nationals from hostile (01:50:35) nations on our own soil because of a (01:50:37) doctrine called deemed exports. There's (01:50:40) an entire hidden world of national (01:50:42) security. And the penalty for talking (01:50:44) about national security with people who (01:50:47) don't live that is that you're a (01:50:50) conspiracy theorist. It's like, do you (01:50:53) have this terminology? Do you know the (01:50:54) axe? Do you want to Google it? Well, (01:50:56) you're This is also just something (01:50:58) that's really interesting about the UFO (01:51:00) UAP world. We had this admission (01:51:02) recently (01:51:05) that the government knew that at a (01:51:07) minimum, and again, I don't think this (01:51:09) is by anywhere close to the full story. (01:51:11) At a minimum there were secret fake (01:51:14) special access programs. Do you know (01:51:16) about special access programs? Su super (01:51:18) secret programs are called special (01:51:19) access programs. (01:51:22) Then there's a further category called (01:51:24) unagnowledged special access programs or (01:51:27) USPS which is you can know that a (01:51:29) special access program exists (01:51:32) like you know maybe warhead recovery is (01:51:35) a might be a known one but then like (01:51:38) there might be an uncknowledged special (01:51:40) access program which is like theft of (01:51:43) foreign nuclear warheads which we it's (01:51:45) not even on the books only only the (01:51:47) super secret lawmakers uh you know in (01:51:49) the gang of eight or whatever it can (01:51:51) know that that exists. And then there (01:51:53) are further designations of secretness. (01:51:57) There's waved and bigoted. So you can (01:52:00) have like a waved bigoted unagnowledged (01:52:02) special access program and you don't (01:52:05) know any of this language. (01:52:07) And then there's this chorus of morons (01:52:10) who the instant you start to educate (01:52:12) people about the existence of the sup (01:52:15) super secret squirrel club (01:52:17) rise up and say (01:52:20) this is all conspiracy theory (01:52:24) and you're saying wait a second we just (01:52:26) admitted in UFO UAP land that we have a (01:52:31) fake special access program which I (01:52:34) predicted on Joe Rogan. And I said, "We (01:52:36) may be faking a UFO situation." (01:52:41) The cost and the penalty at a personal (01:52:43) level for letting people know how the (01:52:45) government keeps secrets is personal (01:52:48) destruction. (01:52:49) >> The US faked UFO program. (01:52:51) >> Yes, correct. You don't know about this. (01:52:54) I think the Wall Street Journal had an (01:52:56) article about it. So these guys knew (01:52:58) when they filed their reports on the UFO (01:53:00) UAP that there actually is at a minimum (01:53:05) a fake UFO UAP program. (01:53:08) >> Why would they want to fake UFOs? (01:53:12) >> This is so weird. (01:53:14) Did you did you happen to watch Joe (01:53:16) Rogan episode 1945 where I talked about (01:53:19) the whole history of the golden age of (01:53:21) general relativity and its relationship (01:53:23) to UFO UAP anti-gravity research and the (01:53:26) atomic bomb? (01:53:27) >> I didn't know. (01:53:28) >> Okay. (01:53:29) When we invaded (01:53:32) the beaches of Normandy on D-Day, (01:53:35) that was called Operation Overlord. (01:53:39) We had an entirely fake invasion planned (01:53:42) of Norway called Operation Fortitude (01:53:44) that was part of Operation Bodyguard, (01:53:46) which is part of just total deception. (01:53:49) And why? Because we were building up (01:53:50) troops to do something huge. So we tried (01:53:53) to convince, we like planted plans for (01:53:56) the invasion of Norway on dead bodies to (01:53:58) wash up on beaches so Germans would find (01:54:01) them. We fake stuff all the time. That's (01:54:05) what we do. (01:54:09) And you can't talk about what we do that (01:54:13) is deceptive without being ruined by (01:54:16) what are called covert influence (01:54:18) operations. (01:54:20) Like if you'll you watch my Twitter (01:54:22) account, you'll see all sorts of (01:54:23) accounts descend on it. Fraud Charlotte (01:54:26) and Grifter blah blah blah blah blah (01:54:27) blah. (01:54:29) Some of that is just people being mean. (01:54:33) But you'll notice that like if I really (01:54:35) start talking about physics and I start (01:54:37) talking about security and I start (01:54:39) talking about things that anyone can (01:54:41) Google and most of us don't think to do (01:54:42) it, (01:54:44) suddenly it gets really really intense. (01:54:49) And the whole point is it's supposed to (01:54:50) be untraceable. (01:54:53) It's supposed to be a way in which like (01:54:56) almost certainly we know a ton about (01:54:59) what happened in the Wuhan Institute of (01:55:01) Viology (01:55:03) because of two bioweapons conventions (01:55:06) that we were signitaries to and which we (01:55:09) ratified the Geneva Convention and a (01:55:11) bioweapons convention in the 1970s. But (01:55:14) that's not top of mind for ordinary (01:55:16) people. They just watched, you know, (01:55:19) their great grandma die and they watched (01:55:22) their children get sick and they watched (01:55:24) their own brain fog. (01:55:27) They can't know whether that was a (01:55:28) bioweapon that we were working on coming (01:55:30) out of the University of North Carolina (01:55:32) Chapel Hill with Ralph Bareric's lab. (01:55:37) You know, we're we're up to constant (01:55:39) secret stuff. Why would they fake the (01:55:42) UFOs, though? What was the what was that (01:55:45) distraction? Have you ever seen the B2 (01:55:46) bomber? (01:55:46) >> Yeah. (01:55:47) >> What if you saw that before we were (01:55:49) ready to say it existed? (01:55:50) >> Yeah. You'd think it was a UFO or (01:55:52) something. (01:55:52) >> So, wouldn't it be better if we had a (01:55:53) UFO story ready to go when we had cool (01:55:56) aerospace? (01:55:57) >> Oh, okay. So, you're saying they're (01:55:59) working on something which they didn't (01:56:00) want you to know. (01:56:01) >> What's more, what if we convinced China (01:56:04) or Russia or Iran (01:56:07) that we had incredible powers that they (01:56:09) don't have? (01:56:11) >> Then they might be very reluctant to (01:56:13) strike us. (01:56:15) or they might waste a tremendous amount (01:56:18) of money developing anti-gravity (01:56:21) technology when there's no such thing. (01:56:23) There are plenty of good reasons to fake (01:56:25) such thing. Why would we fake an why (01:56:27) would we plan an invasion of Norway if (01:56:30) we weren't going to invade? (01:56:31) >> But if that's a distraction technique, (01:56:33) do you have any hypothesis as to what (01:56:35) was going on there? (01:56:36) >> But that's not my job. (01:56:38) >> Okay. (01:56:39) Because as soon as you do that, I know (01:56:41) that my the quality of my guessing is (01:56:44) not going to be at the quality of my (01:56:45) detecting when we're up to [ __ ] (01:56:47) >> Okay? (01:56:48) >> So, in other words, if you ask me (01:56:51) why is physics stagnant, (01:56:55) I can say I don't know, but there's a (01:56:57) decent chance that we know how dangerous (01:56:59) physics is and that it's crazy to do it (01:57:01) in an open university environment. We've (01:57:04) taken precautions. We have a system of (01:57:05) national laboratories which are (01:57:08) effectively our secret university system (01:57:10) uh where you have to be an American. So (01:57:12) we we're using our regular universities (01:57:14) and the whole world comes through it. (01:57:16) You know we have Chinese people learning (01:57:18) physics side by side our own people. (01:57:20) >> And I guess you're saying that you don't (01:57:21) know if UFOs exist but you you're you're (01:57:24) sure now that they were faking this. I (01:57:26) am absolutely positive that we have (01:57:29) unagnowledged programs (01:57:32) that have UFO written on the side of (01:57:34) them. (01:57:36) >> Okay. (01:57:36) >> In other words, the number of people who (01:57:38) repeat who repeat strikingly similar (01:57:41) things (01:57:43) who appear to be completely sober in (01:57:45) every other respect with no known acting (01:57:47) ability. There is no way in the world (01:57:49) that these people just spontaneously (01:57:52) have decided to destroy their sanity, (01:57:54) their career, and their reputation. (01:57:56) >> I've got you. (01:57:56) >> At a minimum, we're faking. (01:58:00) I think we are doing a lot more than (01:58:02) faking a UFO program. (01:58:06) I don't know what it is and I also would (01:58:08) not be talking about this on a large (01:58:11) podcast, but for one thing, (01:58:14) I have a particular hatred for one (01:58:17) aspect of our intelligence community. (01:58:19) And I I don't mean that I dis disagree (01:58:22) or don't like or I'm not uncomfortable (01:58:26) when our secret squirrel club inside the (01:58:30) intelligence world and inside in (01:58:32) particular covert operations targets our (01:58:34) own people who are not read into these (01:58:36) programs for personal destruction, (01:58:40) reputational destruction, mental (01:58:42) destruction, economic destruction. We (01:58:44) take our best people and we make fun of (01:58:46) them and we belittle them and we destroy (01:58:49) their families, their lives, their (01:58:50) ability to earn. (01:58:53) I have a very strong sense that you (01:58:55) never destroy your best people. (01:58:58) >> Do you think you're under attack? (01:59:00) >> Let me talk about Leo Zillard instead. (01:59:03) Leo Zillard is the father of the (01:59:05) Manhattan Project, (01:59:07) >> which was the where the nuclear bomb was (01:59:08) created. (01:59:09) >> That's right. He was not allowed to go (01:59:11) inside the Manhattan Project because (01:59:14) they didn't trust him. He was a genius. (01:59:18) He was the idea for the Manhattan (01:59:19) Project. He and Einstein made sure that (01:59:21) it happened. (01:59:24) The government barely trusted (01:59:25) Oppenheimer. If you saw the film, (01:59:30) what they did with Leo Zillard was they (01:59:32) minded him. They knew how good he was. (01:59:35) They knew how important he was. They (01:59:37) listened to him and they didn't destroy (01:59:39) him. He undoubtedly knew that the (01:59:40) program was going on, (01:59:43) but he wasn't allowed inside the (01:59:45) program. (01:59:48) I think that's okay. (01:59:50) I think it's okay that our security (01:59:52) state (01:59:55) recognizes that some people are not cut (01:59:57) out to keep secrets. Some people are not (01:59:59) cut out (02:00:01) to die with certain facts that have to (02:00:03) be kept hidden. That's fine. (02:00:06) the desire of our government to destroy (02:00:09) people who have no idea what they've (02:00:10) tripped over because our government (02:00:13) isn't good enough to keep its own (02:00:14) secrets. (02:00:18) This is an abomination. (02:00:20) You cannot destroy your a team. (02:00:23) >> Who are you referring to when you say (02:00:25) people are being destroyed? Are you (02:00:27) referring to people like yourself? (02:00:29) You know, if you look at, for example, (02:00:33) Jeffrey Epstein, (02:00:35) Jeffrey Epstein conducted a conference (02:00:37) called Confronting Gravity. (02:00:41) I don't know who Jeffrey Epstein was, (02:00:43) but I'll I would certainly bet money (02:00:45) that he was a product of at least one (02:00:48) uh or more elements of the intelligence (02:00:51) community. (02:00:51) >> The CIA, the FBI, (02:00:54) >> that those are ours, right? Department (02:00:56) of Homeland Security has some of the (02:00:58) stuff. Geospatial Intelligence has some (02:01:01) of this. You know, it's a it's a large (02:01:02) network. Um, I'm talking about people (02:01:05) like David Grush. (02:01:09) I'm talking about people potentially (02:01:10) like David Fraver. (02:01:13) I'm talking about people like Jake (02:01:14) Barber. (02:01:16) I'm talking about scientists (02:01:20) like Leo Zillard. Imagine if Leo Ziller (02:01:23) didn't know that the Manhattan Project (02:01:25) was going on or Jack Raper, a journalist (02:01:27) who broke a story. These people all (02:01:29) think that they're doing their jobs. (02:01:36) I desperately want to know why Jeffrey (02:01:38) Epstein knew so much about my work (02:01:43) and I want to know why he was connected (02:01:44) to my graduate program. (02:01:48) I was I was in the Harvard mathematics (02:01:50) department. Jeffrey Epstein was (02:01:52) absolutely connected to the Harvard math (02:01:54) department. I want to know why. (02:01:56) >> How was he connected to the math (02:01:57) department? (02:01:57) >> You're pushing me to say things I'm not (02:01:59) going to say. (02:02:01) >> I'm curious. I'm not trying to push you. (02:02:03) >> I understand, but I'm just not going to (02:02:04) do it. I'm saying that anybody who wants (02:02:08) >> You say he was connected to the math (02:02:09) department (02:02:09) >> to the Harvard mathematics department. (02:02:11) >> How did you know he was connected? (02:02:13) >> You can Google it. You could Google it (02:02:15) right now. (02:02:18) This is not I I can point at all sorts (02:02:21) of stuff that's hidden in plain sight. (02:02:24) >> So, I'll take your word for it. And the (02:02:25) assertion that I'm picking up on is that (02:02:27) Jeffrey Epstein was planted in your (02:02:29) world to keep (02:02:31) >> I'm not saying he's planted. I don't (02:02:32) know who he was. I don't know who ran (02:02:34) him. He certainly was not a financeier (02:02:36) in any standard sense. (02:02:38) >> Really, (02:02:38) >> that was a cover story. Yes. The way (02:02:40) that we know Jeffrey Epstein in the UK (02:02:42) especially is just this guy who was this (02:02:44) rich guy who had this island who brought (02:02:46) people there and then did these (02:02:48) despicable things that (02:02:49) >> disgraced financeier Jeffrey Epstein. (02:02:51) >> Yeah, that's what we that's the story. (02:02:52) >> Disgraced financier Jeffrey Epste. It's (02:02:54) called proveration. He was a disgraced (02:02:55) financeier. What kind of a finance year (02:02:57) or disgraced one? What was his name? Oh, (02:02:59) he was disgraced financier Jeffrey (02:03:01) Epstein. (02:03:02) >> They proceverate that into your mind so (02:03:04) that you autocomplete that in your LLM (02:03:06) life. (02:03:08) Do you believe that that's what Jeffrey (02:03:10) Epstein was? (02:03:11) >> You met him? You (02:03:14) >> Yeah, I can tell that finance finance (02:03:17) year. (02:03:17) >> He wasn't a finance year the day I met (02:03:19) him. (02:03:19) >> What was he? (02:03:21) >> He was a weird guy who didn't seem to (02:03:23) know a lot about currency trading, (02:03:28) claiming to run a multi-billion dollar (02:03:30) FX hedge fund. (02:03:33) >> When you say a weird guy, what made him (02:03:35) weird? (02:03:36) >> Same stuff I've said on Chris William. (02:03:37) I'm not going to go back through that. (02:03:38) Just my my point is you're getting a (02:03:41) different interview, right? (02:03:43) >> So, what I'm trying to get at is Jeffrey (02:03:46) Epstein knew a tremendous amount about (02:03:48) my work when nobody knew anything about (02:03:50) my work and he had a pipeline into me (02:03:52) that I didn't understand which is that (02:03:54) he was connected to my graduate program. (02:03:57) And you can check out the conference (02:03:59) called Exploring Gravity uh (02:04:02) >> and hosted physical workshop called (02:04:03) Confronting Gravity. (02:04:04) >> Confronting gravity. That's right. in (02:04:06) March 2006. (02:04:07) >> Yeah. What is Jeffrey Epste? Jeffrey (02:04:08) Epstein is very focused on gravity. (02:04:11) >> Was it a gravity conference? It was (02:04:13) about gravity. (02:04:14) >> Yeah. (02:04:14) >> What the [ __ ] was he doing talking about (02:04:15) bloody gravity if he's a finance year? (02:04:17) >> It was very important to get Nobel (02:04:19) laureates and some of the smartest (02:04:20) people on earth to come to the Virgin (02:04:22) Islands and talk about gravity. Steven (02:04:23) Hawkins was there. David Gross was (02:04:25) there. Lawrence Krauss was there. Lisa (02:04:26) Randall was there right before his (02:04:29) conviction. (02:04:31) And I'm telling you, he was very focused (02:04:33) on the Harvard math department. (02:04:35) and he knew all about me in ways that he (02:04:37) wasn't supposed to. (02:04:43) >> I have to I have to be clear. I have to (02:04:45) be clear on my understanding of what (02:04:47) you're saying. From what I understood (02:04:48) and you can say, Steve, I'm not going to (02:04:50) answer that. Whatever. But I just have (02:04:51) to because you've opened up a curiosity (02:04:52) hole in my mind. So, let me try and fill (02:04:54) it. Even if it's the conversation you (02:04:55) had with Chris, (02:04:56) >> um (02:04:57) >> I'll just evade you if (02:04:59) >> fine. you're within the right to evade (02:05:00) me and I hold the right to ask which is (02:05:02) um (02:05:03) >> so is what I'm hearing is you believe (02:05:06) and I'm just going to say it how I think (02:05:08) it is what I'm hearing is you believe (02:05:09) that Jeffrey Jeffrey Epstein was not a (02:05:12) financier he was planted in some way to (02:05:15) >> he was a construct is what I said (02:05:17) >> he was a construct in some way to (02:05:21) mess with the (02:05:24) progression of physics (02:05:26) >> Jeffrey Epstein (02:05:28) Apparently, I think some I'll tell you (02:05:30) what I said when I met him. When the (02:05:33) meeting was over, I immediately called (02:05:35) my wife and I said, "I have just met a (02:05:38) construct." She said, "What do you (02:05:39) mean?" I said, "This person is not who (02:05:40) they claim to be. Somebody has (02:05:42) constructed this human being to be (02:05:44) something that they are not." Which is a (02:05:46) hedge fund genius. Somebody who could (02:05:49) understand the euro and the yen like (02:05:51) nobody else. [ __ ] Not true. (02:05:59) I believe that whoever constructed (02:06:01) Jeffrey Epstein was running multiple (02:06:03) different programs through the same (02:06:05) thing, having put in a large initial (02:06:08) investment. (02:06:10) It wasn't about one thing. If you build (02:06:12) a mall, you don't just have clothing (02:06:13) stores in the mall. You have a food (02:06:14) court in the mall, right? You have (02:06:17) jewelry in the mall. You you you have (02:06:19) all sorts of different things in the (02:06:20) mall. (02:06:22) Jeffrey Epstein was a construct of (02:06:25) something (02:06:26) that was running multiple things. One of (02:06:29) those things was science. And I don't (02:06:30) think that the science and the (02:06:31) pedophilia were necessarily in the same (02:06:33) bucket. He was funding all sorts of (02:06:36) people. I don't think everybody at that, (02:06:39) you know, part of the problem with (02:06:40) calling his plane the Lolita Express and (02:06:43) calling his island pedophile island is (02:06:46) that you just can't see all the (02:06:49) different things that were going through (02:06:50) this guy. (02:06:53) I don't think almost any of those (02:06:55) scientists are exposed, you know, maybe (02:06:57) a few of them, but very few of them to (02:07:00) anything really horrible. I think he was (02:07:02) trying to keep a periscope on everything (02:07:04) that was interesting. (02:07:07) And I think that his girlfriend's (02:07:09) father, Robert Maxwell, was all through (02:07:12) scientific publishing. (02:07:15) And I think Pergamont Press was in part (02:07:18) a control mechanism (02:07:20) for making sure that revolutionary (02:07:24) discoveries were taking place within a (02:07:26) framework. (02:07:28) Anybody can look, (02:07:31) you can write a Substack article and you (02:07:34) can hit post and suddenly the world has (02:07:36) access to your Substack article. That is (02:07:39) a nightmare. What if somebody posts, you (02:07:42) know, weaponized anthrax? (02:07:46) What if they do the equivalent of (02:07:47) saying, "What if there's a neutral (02:07:48) proton?" (02:07:50) >> So, you think he was controlling (02:07:51) science? (02:07:52) >> I think that Robert Maxwell was in part (02:07:54) trying to control science. I think (02:07:56) Jeffrey Epstein was in part trying to (02:07:58) fund science, trying to control it. I (02:08:00) don't really know. (02:08:02) Again, you know, part of the problem (02:08:04) with why conspiracy theorists have a bad (02:08:06) name is that they're not content to live (02:08:09) in ignorance, and I mean, I am (02:08:14) I know something is really off with this (02:08:17) story. (02:08:20) If if you look at me saying things like, (02:08:22) "You don't know whether Biden is going (02:08:23) to make it to November." Haha, Eric, you (02:08:26) know what an idiot. Blah blah blah. (02:08:27) Okay, then he has a debate. He doesn't (02:08:29) make it to November. (02:08:31) You know, I'm not Nostradamus. I'm just (02:08:33) dumb enough to say something in public (02:08:36) that that makes sense. Let me say (02:08:37) something in public that makes sense. (02:08:41) Our national security people suck at (02:08:43) their jobs. (02:08:46) the people who are in charge of the (02:08:49) department of energy which is masking (02:08:50) the department of physics which is m (02:08:52) masking the department of nuclear (02:08:54) weapons right the atomic energy acts (02:08:57) which are really about atomic weaponry (02:09:00) recast as atoms for peace or who knows (02:09:02) what Jeffrey Epstein who is not a (02:09:04) disgraced finance seere (02:09:06) the newspapers that have always had a (02:09:08) national interest component and have (02:09:10) liaison so that they can work with the (02:09:12) CIA and the state department and they do (02:09:14) each other's bidding and scratch each (02:09:15) other. This whole network (02:09:19) is the is what I've called managed (02:09:21) reality. We live in managed reality. (02:09:24) We are all in some version of The Truman (02:09:27) Show. (02:09:29) And you can look at it. You can Google (02:09:30) it. I can give you a million search (02:09:32) terms. And every time I give a million (02:09:34) search terms, you'll watch my reputation (02:09:35) get torn apart. (02:09:38) Are you are you going to blame me that (02:09:40) you didn't know what the whole of (02:09:41) society approach is because you didn't (02:09:42) know the Daniel Inaway Center for (02:09:44) Security in the Pacific came up with an (02:09:46) idea for soft fascism to fight hybrid (02:09:48) wars? You didn't know what hybrid (02:09:49) warfare? Look, look at my talk at ARC, (02:09:52) Jordan Peterson's group, the Alliance (02:09:54) for Responsible Citizenship. It's almost (02:09:56) two million views. And why is it? (02:09:58) Because people are saying, "I didn't (02:10:00) know these terms. (02:10:02) Did you know what the Human Terrain (02:10:03) Project is? You know, do you know about (02:10:05) human terrain? You're a mountain. I'm a (02:10:07) valley and instead of war uh planners (02:10:11) figuring out how do we use that valley (02:10:13) to capture that mountain top because it (02:10:14) gives us a an eagle's nest, you know, to (02:10:17) snipe from or whatever. They say, "Okay, (02:10:20) this is the second most powerful podcast (02:10:22) in the in the world, second to Joe (02:10:24) Rogan. How do we capture him?" (02:10:26) >> [ __ ] Leave me alone, please. (02:10:28) >> No, but that's what I'm trying to say. (02:10:29) You're human terrain. (02:10:31) >> Yeah. (02:10:32) >> When the human terrain wakes up and (02:10:33) says, "Wait a minute. I'm human terrain. (02:10:37) Well, my feeling is if you don't want me (02:10:39) to talk about this on a podcast, then (02:10:41) keep your terms separate. Nobody knew (02:10:45) the term pre-bunked malinformation. Do (02:10:47) you know what pre-bunked malinformation (02:10:48) is? (02:10:50) >> Malinformation is information we don't (02:10:52) want to get out. (02:10:54) Technically, people try to pretend that (02:10:56) it's information that will be (02:10:58) misinterpreted, but really it's real (02:11:01) stuff that is delotterious to the (02:11:03) narratives that we're trying to push (02:11:05) forward and what we're trying to do. And (02:11:06) prebunked means discredited. (02:11:10) So, we know what debunked. We have to (02:11:12) debunk disinformation. We get that. But (02:11:15) you didn't know that we had to prebunk (02:11:16) malinformation, which is we have to (02:11:18) destroy truth tellers. (02:11:21) >> What do you think that means for people (02:11:22) like me as podcasters? you know, because (02:11:24) we're doing these long form (02:11:25) conversations. I take (02:11:27) >> you'll snap back, you'll say, "That was (02:11:29) a really interesting talk." (02:11:33) And then you'll have somebody else on (02:11:35) who'll be talking about the importance (02:11:37) of melatonin and how we don't understand (02:11:40) uh the role of sleep. And you'll have (02:11:43) somebody else, you know, on who will be (02:11:46) talking about how do you do a uh a (02:11:48) clothing brand from scratch uh and turn (02:11:50) it into a billion-dollar unicorn. (02:11:54) You're not going to stay here on this (02:11:55) topic. (02:11:57) This is your time with me and it'll have (02:12:00) some effect and it'll start to fade. (02:12:04) And and and that's what this is. (02:12:08) I'd love to be doing my podcast. (02:12:12) I just don't know how to do it safely. (02:12:15) I want to talk about taking our lives (02:12:17) back from the intelligence community. I (02:12:19) want to talk about taking our lives back (02:12:20) from Silicon Valley. Even though those (02:12:22) people are my friends, I want to talk (02:12:25) about taking my life back from the (02:12:27) phone, (02:12:29) from despair, from not having a future. (02:12:32) I want to talk about having a glorious (02:12:34) existence that is not mediated by morons (02:12:37) who sit inside the beltway and play with (02:12:40) large budgets and hurt people. (02:12:42) Particularly really good people who are (02:12:44) good at their job, who are trying to (02:12:46) figure out how to advance (02:12:48) humankind, their family, the national (02:12:51) interest, and get fouled. (02:12:54) I I did not ask for Jeffrey Epstein to (02:12:56) fall into my life. (02:12:58) I met him once, (02:13:01) but it was enough to know, "Holy cow, (02:13:03) the Harvard math department can't be (02:13:04) what I think it is." Why was he there? I (02:13:07) didn't even know. I never heard his name (02:13:09) when I was there. (02:13:11) >> Is that where you met him in in Harvard? (02:13:14) >> No, no, no. (02:13:16) I think what very powerful people at JP (02:13:19) JP Morgan told me I needed to meet him. (02:13:24) He didn't want to talk about finance. (02:13:27) He wanted to talk about science. (02:13:30) >> You can't do your podcast safely. (02:13:33) Do you (02:13:33) >> My employer was a special informant to (02:13:36) the FBI. (02:13:38) He's like one of my closest friends. I'm (02:13:39) not going to say who it is. (02:13:42) >> Your employer? (02:13:43) >> Yeah. And one of my closest friends. (02:13:49) I I live under a periscope. (02:13:53) practice scope is really what I meant. (02:13:55) But (02:13:57) yeah, I I don't I want to do physics, (02:13:59) man. (02:14:02) I'm really really good at it, (02:14:06) you know. (02:14:08) And if we have an idea that we shouldn't (02:14:09) do physics in public, I would like to (02:14:11) have a call from somebody inside. (02:14:15) Hey, Eric, we we need you to come in. (02:14:17) Okay, great. What's up? (02:14:21) But I didn't use your resources. cuz I (02:14:22) didn't use your grants. (02:14:25) Nobody ever informed me. My god, nobody (02:14:27) ever informed me about restricted data. (02:14:31) How many people on earth know that (02:14:33) there's a doctrine that says physicists (02:14:35) don't have free speech? (02:14:38) We can execute you for doing your job. (02:14:41) It's never been tested in the courts, (02:14:42) and I hope that the Supreme Court will (02:14:44) not allow that. But, you know, if we (02:14:46) have a problem that is so serious in (02:14:48) theoretical physics (02:14:50) that it needs the the world's largest (02:14:54) exemption from free speech, we need to (02:14:56) amend the Constitution. You can't just (02:14:58) do this as a sneak attack where you (02:15:01) reserve the right casually to hook the (02:15:03) 1917 Espionage Act up against the 1946 (02:15:07) and 54 Atomic Energy Acts. (02:15:10) I I've canvased my physics colleagues (02:15:15) You know, like one of the memes against (02:15:16) me, which is very funny, is that no (02:15:19) physicists take me seriously when I'm in (02:15:21) their offices all the time. (02:15:25) I I just don't know what my life is. (02:15:28) And And with this latest advent of war (02:15:30) in the Middle East, (02:15:33) are you really going to pretend that if (02:15:34) you can Google all of these things that (02:15:36) I have no idea what I'm talking about? (02:15:41) I'm looking to have a conversation with (02:15:43) my own government. (02:15:45) I'm looking to have a conversation about (02:15:47) theoretical physics. (02:15:50) And I can do it quietly, but I have (02:15:52) rights. And I do not believe that the (02:15:54) 1946 and 1954 Atomic Energy Acts are (02:15:57) constitutional. (02:15:59) Try me. (02:16:02) There is no restricted data. You can't (02:16:04) do that to an American. (02:16:07) And you can't just keep mounting covert (02:16:10) influence campaigns. You know, (02:16:15) I just spent five days in the physics (02:16:17) department. I'm not allowed to say that (02:16:19) it was five days in the physics (02:16:20) department as a visitor. I gave a talk. (02:16:23) I'm not allowed to say that I gave a (02:16:24) talk. (02:16:27) I don't know what this is. (02:16:32) And I'm tired of it, you know? It's just (02:16:34) like (02:16:41) if you're managing the Middle East this (02:16:43) badly, if you're managing physics this (02:16:45) badly, if you're managing the national (02:16:47) economy this badly, if you screwed up (02:16:50) COVID this badly by getting inside of (02:16:53) the Lancet and nature, (02:16:56) you know, peer review is this fake thing (02:16:59) that supposedly stretches back to the (02:17:01) founding of the Royal Society. And it's (02:17:03) very clear from the scholarship around (02:17:04) it that it comes out of n period between (02:17:08) 1965 and 1975 initiated by the Medicare (02:17:11) act predicated on the need for uh (02:17:15) editors for the journal expansion (02:17:17) founded by Pergamont Press and Robert (02:17:20) Maxwell. By 1975, (02:17:23) there's a giant battle between the NSF (02:17:25) and both fiscal and cultural (02:17:28) conservatives (02:17:30) against something called man a course of (02:17:32) study or makos where peerreview (02:17:36) was born in a Utah clinic. Uh came out (02:17:40) of the medical literature because the (02:17:42) federal government in 1965 with the (02:17:43) Medicare act picked up the need to pay (02:17:46) for so many medical procedures. They (02:17:48) wanted to say why are we assigning this (02:17:50) many medical procedures? The doctors (02:17:52) circled the wagons and said we will (02:17:54) peerreview each other. Then in by 1975 (02:17:58) the NSF was under the um microscope and (02:18:01) they used peer review as a self-defense (02:18:04) of of last resort to say we will be (02:18:06) reviewing each other. Right? Peer review (02:18:08) is a myth. (02:18:13) The scholarship is clear as day. (02:18:17) I I can't keep going on the world's (02:18:19) largest podcasts saying everything that (02:18:22) can be googled and figured out and just (02:18:24) constantly have as my reward that the (02:18:27) government refuses to have a (02:18:28) conversation with me and sends its its (02:18:31) gaggle of uh of idiots to harass me. (02:18:35) >> You think it's doing that? It's sending (02:18:37) a gaggle of (02:18:39) >> Yes, I do. I do think I think that some (02:18:41) of them are actual idiots who just enjoy (02:18:44) having causing problems. But I think (02:18:46) more than anything, we have a real (02:18:48) problem. Science is too powerful. (02:18:52) The real, if you wanted to just cut to (02:18:54) the ultimate core of this. (02:18:59) If four amino acids can shut down planet (02:19:01) Earth. (02:19:04) If, what is it, a nine-page paper (02:19:07) solving the double spend problem can (02:19:09) create a new currency not backed by (02:19:11) violence, but backed by mathematics. (02:19:16) If the concept of an inner product in a (02:19:18) large vector space (02:19:21) generates something you can't tell isn't (02:19:23) a human being (02:19:25) in 2017. (02:19:27) Do you have any idea what the power of (02:19:29) the human mind is at this point? Linear (02:19:33) algebra (02:19:35) can create something that you would fall (02:19:37) in love with. (02:19:39) It can create the most beautiful music (02:19:41) you can imagine, or it can animate a (02:19:44) photo of a dead relative so that you can (02:19:46) actually have the experience of having (02:19:48) some video of you with a great (02:19:49) grandparent you can't even remember. (02:19:53) Science is the most amazing, powerful, (02:19:55) crazy stuff possible. And we spend a (02:19:59) fortune trying to convince people that (02:20:01) scientists are worthless, that (02:20:04) scientists are incapable. (02:20:07) And in large measure, they've convinced (02:20:08) the scientists themselves, my my (02:20:10) colleagues, the supposed physicists (02:20:14) will spend their entire lives pretending (02:20:17) to do physics and retire without ever (02:20:19) having actually done any. I was in this (02:20:22) physics department I was just in. It's (02:20:23) been a long time since I since I've (02:20:25) spent that long as a visitor. (02:20:28) The top people in this physics (02:20:30) department (02:20:32) professed that they had no interest in (02:20:34) the physical world. (02:20:37) that they only cared about the (02:20:38) mathematics that they were doing. And I (02:20:40) just thought, you're in a theoretical (02:20:43) physics (02:20:44) group (02:20:46) and you profess openly that you have no (02:20:49) interest whatsoever in the physical (02:20:51) world. Well done. I don't know who you (02:20:54) were. I don't know how you did it, but (02:20:57) it took you four decades to get the (02:20:59) physicists to stop caring about the phys (02:21:01) physical world. (02:21:03) Somehow what we did (02:21:06) is we stopped the world's most powerful (02:21:09) and the world's most important group (02:21:11) from making progress. And why Elon Musk (02:21:15) is not out here (02:21:17) saving this by just throwing a few (02:21:19) billion at it. You know, Elon, if you're (02:21:22) out there, it's at Astra. Yes or no? (02:21:25) Mars is a stop gap message. Do you want (02:21:27) to go to the stars? Is there something (02:21:29) we don't know? To the Department of (02:21:31) Energy. Do you want to have (02:21:32) conversations? (02:21:34) Is there anyone at all out here? That's (02:21:36) my question. That's why I do the (02:21:38) podcasts. And it's, by the way, I'm (02:21:40) repeating myself. I've said this before. (02:21:41) Send lawyers, guns, and money. There's (02:21:43) no one out here. (02:21:47) But I will say this, if we could get out (02:21:50) of here, (02:21:52) you know, in terms of transcendence, in (02:21:54) terms of things that are really (02:21:55) exciting, there's nothing that I had (02:21:57) greater pleasure at as a father than (02:21:59) taking my children for meteor showers. (02:22:01) We take the dog, go to a secret location (02:22:04) outside of Los Angeles that's quite (02:22:05) dark. We just lie under the sky and (02:22:10) watch for hours, you know, and look up (02:22:13) at the heavens and think, "My god, (02:22:14) that's a destination. That's some place (02:22:16) I could go." (02:22:19) I don't think that there's a more (02:22:20) inspiring thing than to figure out the (02:22:23) infinity of space. all of these galaxies (02:22:26) and the deep field photographs of these (02:22:28) space telescopes (02:22:30) filled with worlds and we're stuck here. (02:22:34) It's like it's enough already. Time to (02:22:36) go. Let's have some fun. That's that's (02:22:38) really what I'm excited about. (02:22:42) Been great. Great to be here. (02:22:45) >> Thank you for being here. Super (02:22:47) fascinating and it spun my brain in (02:22:49) several different directions at the same (02:22:51) time. (02:22:57) I want to I want to bring it um back to (02:22:59) the person who's who's got to the end of (02:23:01) this conversation and they're sat at (02:23:02) home in their box of shorts, maybe (02:23:04) listening on their iPhone as they fall (02:23:06) asleep, wherever they are in the world (02:23:07) or on a train or plane or whatever, and (02:23:09) allow you to offer them some kind of (02:23:11) closing message that might make their (02:23:14) life better in some way. It's a broad (02:23:17) brief, but I think it's the most (02:23:18) important brief, which is, you know, can (02:23:21) having heard everything we've talked (02:23:22) about today. (02:23:24) What advice would you give the listener, (02:23:27) an actionable piece of advice so that (02:23:28) they could live a subjectively better (02:23:31) life? (02:23:37) The songs of Tom Ler are pretty (02:23:39) terrific, as are the operetas of Gilbert (02:23:42) and Sullivan. You might want to explore (02:23:43) the Azors as well as the Indonesian (02:23:47) archipelago. Indonesian is one of the (02:23:49) easiest languages to learn because it's (02:23:51) been denuted of most of the complexity (02:23:54) that screw up people who have a hard (02:23:55) time learning other languages. Buy a (02:23:58) poster of tropical fruit and make sure (02:24:00) that you visit every single one on that (02:24:01) poster before it's time for lights out. (02:24:04) Consider box B minor mass and the cello (02:24:06) suites particularly by Pablo Casal and (02:24:09) take a serious listen to Eva Cassidy (02:24:12) uh singing Stormy Monday in an album (02:24:15) called Live from Blues Alley to see if (02:24:18) uh you really know how to feel things. I (02:24:20) think Professor Longair's Big Chief is (02:24:23) one of the most brilliant pieces of (02:24:25) piano music. It's absolutely inspiring. (02:24:27) And if you really like that, James Carol (02:24:29) Booker III has an album called The (02:24:31) Resurrection of the Bayou Maharaja. (02:24:34) Seriously, think about visiting the (02:24:38) island of St. Helena in the South (02:24:40) Atlantic. (02:24:42) Take a look at Kurt Jiongal's channel. (02:24:44) He's doing amazing stuff being done by (02:24:46) no one else on Earth. I think that Chris (02:24:48) Buck is really amazing. And if you think (02:24:50) that Crossroads is good, have a listen (02:24:52) to his version of Miss You by the (02:24:54) Rolling Stones. an incredible groove and (02:24:57) I didn't really appreciate it the first (02:24:59) time I heard it. I think that the people (02:25:01) making Spark amps at Positive Grid and (02:25:05) the my friends at Neural DSP (02:25:08) uh with the Quad Cortex will blow your (02:25:12) mind with how much great audio equipment (02:25:14) you can make. You can get a good (02:25:16) electric guitar for a few hundred bucks (02:25:18) thanks to advances in China. put it into (02:25:20) an open tuning and buy yourself a slide (02:25:23) or just slide a glass along it and (02:25:25) you'll be able to play most songs that (02:25:27) you'd care about within a minute or two, (02:25:30) maybe three, because you only need three (02:25:31) chords. (02:25:34) Get married. It may not work out. It may (02:25:37) be miserable. Have some kids. There's (02:25:39) nothing else great to do on this planet. (02:25:41) At least give it a try. And if your (02:25:42) parents won't pressure you to do it, I'm (02:25:44) happy to do it. (02:25:46) Try to keep this thing going. (02:25:49) Try to keep this thing going. Try to (02:25:50) dream big about legacy. Don't feel (02:25:53) embarrassed about wanting to conquer the (02:25:56) world or leave a permanent stain. Get (02:25:58) out of this moment where everybody's (02:26:00) worried about narcissism and drama. (02:26:03) Listen for meteor showers. They're (02:26:04) announced regularly. Nobody actually (02:26:06) does anything about them. And it's worth (02:26:08) inconveniencing yourself with people you (02:26:10) love and take the dog. (02:26:13) really seriously think about you whether (02:26:15) you want to pile on when you see what is (02:26:18) almost certainly a federal or other (02:26:22) campaign targeting people who are (02:26:24) standing up for you. Whether they're (02:26:26) trying to figure out where COVID came (02:26:27) from, trying to figure out who was (02:26:30) behind Jeffrey Epstein, recognize that (02:26:33) almost everything you've been taught to (02:26:35) do in terms of hating Israel as part of (02:26:37) somebody's campaign out ofQatar. The (02:26:40) situation in Gaza is incredibly dire. (02:26:43) Don't stop caring about the people who (02:26:44) are living under that. Recognize that (02:26:46) the Persians are not the Mullers. Get (02:26:49) involved. (02:26:51) Wish your wish your country's leadership (02:26:54) well. Even if you didn't vote for them (02:26:55) and you think that they're horrible (02:26:56) people, they've got very hard work to (02:26:58) do. Be good to each other. Try. It's a (02:27:02) grand adventure. (02:27:04) And um make sure you have some fun (02:27:06) before it lights out. (02:27:09) That's it. (02:27:12) We have a closing tradition where the (02:27:13) last guest leaves a question for the (02:27:15) next guest, not knowing who they're (02:27:16) leaving it for. And the question that (02:27:18) was left for you (02:27:25) I love this question. What is the (02:27:27) problem that you are doing the most (02:27:29) mental gymnastics to avoid? (02:27:34) Pass. (02:27:40) No, I know the answer. It's not (02:27:42) appropriate for your audience. (02:27:48) One of the things about being in the hot (02:27:51) seat on podcasts (02:27:53) is that it is not right to force anyone (02:27:56) to respond to a question. I know how to (02:27:57) falsify an answer to that and I'm not (02:27:59) going to do that and I'm not going to (02:28:00) share the answer to that question (02:28:02) because it's not appropriate. But it's a (02:28:04) great question. Feel free to leave it (02:28:06) for someone else. This doesn't seem (02:28:07) fair. Whoever you were, thank you for (02:28:10) the question. Obviously, my reaction was (02:28:13) just tremendous curiosity, which would (02:28:14) be a natural reaction to what you just (02:28:16) said. (02:28:18) >> Thank you for a great interview. (02:28:19) >> Thank you so much for being here. I (02:28:20) really appreciate you. No, it's so (02:28:22) unbelievably fascinating and uh you've (02:28:24) given me so much. Unfortunately, you've (02:28:26) given me a lot of answers, but you've (02:28:27) given me even more questions and maybe (02:28:29) that's the product of a good (02:28:30) >> You live in LA. (02:28:31) >> Yeah, (02:28:32) >> we'll do it again. (02:28:33) >> Thank you so much for your time. I (02:28:34) really appreciate you. (02:28:35) >> We appreciate you. (02:28:35) >> Thank you. Thanks. (02:28:38) We launched these conversation cards and (02:28:39) they sold out. And we launched them (02:28:40) again and they sold out again. We (02:28:41) launched them again and they sold out (02:28:42) again because people love playing these (02:28:44) with colleagues at work, with friends at (02:28:46) home, and also with family. And we've (02:28:48) also got a big audience that use them as (02:28:50) journal prompts. Every single time a (02:28:52) guest comes on the diary of a CEO, they (02:28:54) leave a question for the next guest in (02:28:56) the diary. And I've sat here with some (02:28:58) of the most incredible people in the (02:28:59) world. And they've left all of these (02:29:01) questions in the diary. And I've ranked (02:29:03) them from one to three in terms of the (02:29:05) depth. one being a starter question. And (02:29:08) level three, if you look on the back (02:29:10) here, this is a level three, becomes a (02:29:12) much deeper question that builds even (02:29:14) more connection. If you turn the cards (02:29:16) over and you scan that QR code, you can (02:29:20) see who answered the card and watch the (02:29:22) video of them answering it in real time. (02:29:24) So, if you would like to get your hands (02:29:26) on some of these conversation cards, go (02:29:27) to the diary.com or look at the link in (02:29:30) the description below. (02:29:33) Heat. Heat. N. (02:29:35) [Music] (02:29:43) I see. (02:29:46) Hey (02:29:51) [Music]