AI Reset: “Life As We Know It Will Be Gone In 5 Years” – Upcoming Utopia vs Dystopia | Salim Ismail (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) we have two Futures in our world today (00:00:02) either a Mad Max future or a Star Trek (00:00:04) future do you think that as we (00:00:06) transition over to AI that it will take (00:00:09) us through a valley of Despair or is (00:00:11) this going to be a straight line to (00:00:13) Utopia oh no big valleys of chaotic (00:00:15) despair an AI is going to be a million (00:00:18) times smarter than you this is the (00:00:19) biggest inflection point that we've ever (00:00:21) seen how do they create the next billion (00:00:23) dollar company with three people if (00:00:25) that's the way to play it this is what (00:00:26) needs to happen describe the most likely (00:00:31) sequencing over the next 30 Years uh I (00:00:33) think we for me the AI transition is (00:00:37) typewriter to word processor it's just (00:00:39) an uplifting and enabling of all sorts (00:00:42) of capabilities across multiple multiple (00:00:44) sectors and industries and it transforms (00:00:47) how we do things pretty fundamentally (00:00:49) from creativity to uh uh Rank and file (00:00:52) work to blue color work to ET I think (00:00:55) the robotic stuff is further down the (00:00:57) line than most people think uh Peter's (00:00:59) very excited about it we have all the (00:01:00) human Ed robots but robotics is really (00:01:03) really hard and will take much longer in (00:01:05) my opinion but the AI stuff will (00:01:07) actually allow us to uplift ourselves (00:01:09) very quickly and you know we talk about (00:01:11) scarcity to abundance I think AI gets us (00:01:13) to abundance very very fast and I think (00:01:16) that's for me the most exciting and (00:01:18) optimistic side of things we have two (00:01:20) Futures in our world today either a Mad (00:01:22) Max future which you can see playing out (00:01:24) in Gaza or Ukraine or a Star Trek future (00:01:27) uh where we have abundance and we're (00:01:28) operating on a on a much more highly (00:01:31) conscious basis Etc and so which future (00:01:34) do we pick as a human species is the (00:01:36) choice that's in front of us right now (00:01:38) okay so you believe that there's a (00:01:39) branching path before us uh and we get (00:01:42) to choose which path we go down it's a (00:01:45) little we're actually heading down the (00:01:48) Mad Max path so if you look at our (00:01:50) politics you look at what's happening (00:01:52) you look at the the political rck here (00:01:55) in the US there's a huge transitional (00:01:58) shift happening and you could the my my (00:02:01) favorite sensible way of dealing with or (00:02:03) talking about that is a centralized to (00:02:04) decentralized shift right we run the (00:02:07) world today on very centralized systems (00:02:09) governments and corporations and the (00:02:11) military-industrial complex Etc we're (00:02:13) moving to much more decentralized and (00:02:16) bottom up peer-to-peer (00:02:17) systems um and you could call that a (00:02:20) male archetype versus a female archetype (00:02:22) if you want to go there um but when you (00:02:24) get to abundance you want a female (00:02:26) archetype to be running the world uh (00:02:28) because the female archetype shares (00:02:30) resources around naturally uh so for (00:02:33) example the male archetype when it meets (00:02:35) abundance relates to it as power and (00:02:37) tries to hoard it Middle East oil Wall (00:02:39) Street money Etc female archetype meets (00:02:42) abundance and shares it around so you (00:02:44) really need a sharing decentralized (00:02:46) model as we move the world to abundance (00:02:49) and that's the tension that I think I (00:02:50) see in the world more than anything is (00:02:52) that centralized to decentralize (00:02:54) architecture and we've started to see (00:02:56) the rise of this over the last few (00:02:57) decades the burning men philosophy um (00:03:00) open- Source movements DIY movements the (00:03:03) maker movement Etc democracy itself is (00:03:06) is an is a bottomup movement um as a (00:03:10) reaction to feudal systems and and top (00:03:12) down Empires um and we're moving in that (00:03:15) direction it's just slow and painful and (00:03:17) centralized systems don't like to (00:03:18) relinquish power we know that very (00:03:21) clearly so that's the tension that I see (00:03:23) that's playing out that's underpinning (00:03:25) all the other how it's showing up so for (00:03:27) example when I think about Trump or (00:03:29) brexit it wasn't left versus right it (00:03:31) was actually Urban versus rural brexit (00:03:34) was 100% London versus the rest of the (00:03:36) country why would that be the break (00:03:38) point because there's a tension in (00:03:40) cities and how do we allocate resources (00:03:43) to cities versus the countryside uh (00:03:46) where people because the metabolism of a (00:03:48) city is much faster Innovation happens (00:03:50) very fast in a city and so therefore (00:03:52) that that's the environment in which (00:03:53) we're doing most of our of our (00:03:55) Innovation work and technological (00:03:57) development today and if you're left (00:03:59) behind you get very unhappy with that (00:04:01) and so this is the tension that I think (00:04:03) we're seeing around the world so we have (00:04:05) this fundamental tension between things (00:04:08) could go well things could go poorly um (00:04:12) splitting between the different (00:04:13) archetypes male female how we respond to (00:04:16) abundance power or sharing the resources (00:04:19) uh urban and rural um I'm starting to (00:04:22) get a sense of where you're going do you (00:04:24) think that as we transition over to AI (00:04:28) that it will take us through a value of (00:04:30) Despair or is this going to be a (00:04:31) straight line to Utopia oh no big valys (00:04:34) of chaotic despair um these types of (00:04:37) transitions I think this is the biggest (00:04:39) transformation in the history of (00:04:40) civilization maybe the history of (00:04:42) species on on Earth it's that big and (00:04:45) the transition is going to be very (00:04:47) painful they never are are clean right (00:04:50) like dinos asteroid hits and the (00:04:53) dinosaurs get wiped out and now you have (00:04:56) camon explosion types I think that's the (00:04:58) kind of transition we're seeing here (00:05:00) okay that that is uh arguably the most (00:05:03) devastating thing to ever happen to life (00:05:06) on this Earth yeah uh wait I don't I (00:05:09) don't believe AI gets us there but it's (00:05:12) meaning AI will not have that kind of (00:05:13) cataclysmic that's right knock on effect (00:05:15) that's right actually am I'm hugely (00:05:17) optimistic about the future so just (00:05:20) that's a really important framing Point (00:05:22) um but there's no question in (00:05:25) Civilization at least this is the (00:05:26) biggest inflection point that we've ever (00:05:28) seen and I think that next 30 Years (00:05:32) defines the next 300 years why will the (00:05:34) next 30 Years Define it what what does (00:05:36) that look is that the period of (00:05:38) transition yeah it's the transition (00:05:39) period And this is chaos theory right (00:05:41) the initial conditions are really (00:05:43) critical and how you navigate those (00:05:45) initial conditions with uh as much (00:05:48) experience guidance and a lot of luck (00:05:50) will then guide the rest of the future (00:05:52) uh if you know Chaos Theory the idea is (00:05:54) that if you drop a pebble down the top (00:05:56) of a mountain it doesn't matter how many (00:05:59) times you you drop the pebble is always (00:06:01) going to take a different path because (00:06:02) some micro change in the initial (00:06:04) atmosphere or the pressure when you (00:06:06) released it or the first bounce or the (00:06:07) density of the first thing it hit or the (00:06:09) change in humidity along the way will (00:06:11) have it go down a different route so you (00:06:13) never know what's going to happen but it (00:06:15) just knows we're just in the really big (00:06:17) transition and it's super exciting but (00:06:20) it's very very chaotic I have heard you (00:06:23) that this is going to be very difficult (00:06:25) to predict however one of the most (00:06:27) interesting descriptions of quantum (00:06:29) mechanics I heard is that yes while all (00:06:32) things are simply probabilistic the (00:06:34) world that you see is the most likely (00:06:36) and I thought that was a really great (00:06:39) explanation so assuming that knowing (00:06:41) that no matter how many times we drop (00:06:42) the pebble it be different but there's (00:06:44) there's a most likely sort of cluster of (00:06:47) effects yeah think of it as a a stock (00:06:49) market chart right you never have a (00:06:51) clear straight line it's always a choppy (00:06:53) and then it stabilizes then it has a (00:06:55) breakthrough moment and then it's choppy (00:06:58) again it's kind of like that I think (00:06:59) that's the pattern that we see okay what (00:07:02) causes that like I can actually explain (00:07:05) economically what's going on in terms of (00:07:07) human greed fear and the way that (00:07:10) cultural energy will move through a (00:07:11) medium that can be an economic medium so (00:07:14) you can actually see cultural energy (00:07:15) move through a stock market if anybody (00:07:18) paying attention to bitcoin I will just (00:07:19) tell you right now that is simply a (00:07:21) cultural idea that is spreading through (00:07:23) the medium of cryptocurrency I won't (00:07:25) derail the conversation on that but like (00:07:27) with that in mind that to to me my base (00:07:31) assumption about those jagged lines is (00:07:33) that is human the human brain responding (00:07:36) in a somewhat predictable way and you (00:07:39) can watch that idea Ripple through um (00:07:43) including sort of bounding it so it's (00:07:44) only going to go up so high and it's (00:07:46) only going to go down so low and so you (00:07:47) see this sort of bounding fluctuation (00:07:49) and you can look back through history (00:07:51) and you see that same sort of bounded (00:07:52) fluctuation now those bounded (00:07:54) fluctuations to me are terrifying and if (00:07:57) you read history because like I said (00:08:00) said the long Arc is bending towards (00:08:02) prosperity for all and if you zoom out (00:08:04) long enough on human time scales it's (00:08:07) unbelievable the progress made oh my God (00:08:09) but that that does not help uh the guy (00:08:12) whose family all gets rolled up in rugs (00:08:14) by the Mongols and trampled to death yes (00:08:17) like that's just no consolation and so (00:08:19) I'm saying we're all that guy right we (00:08:21) all live one life yes we are bounded (00:08:25) from a Time perspective so far uh and so (00:08:29) it matters me a lot where I am on these (00:08:31) jagged lines so going back to AI what (00:08:35) are these jegged lines do you buy into (00:08:36) my thesis or do you have a different one (00:08:38) oh I I agree with you but with some (00:08:41) caveats so for example uh the economic (00:08:44) outcomes of AI I think are pretty clear (00:08:48) in terms of what's going to happen I (00:08:49) think we're going to see massive (00:08:50) productivity gains across the board um (00:08:53) The Challenge we have is the underlying (00:08:55) system is flawed in terms of Economic (00:08:57) Development and economic growth right (00:08:59) our entire (00:09:00) system global system is money is the (00:09:02) main mode of discourse in the world (00:09:04) today and it's good because if you think (00:09:06) of money as a form of energy we freed (00:09:08) money energy from religious structures (00:09:11) and feudal systems and then the power of (00:09:13) ideas came along and the power of (00:09:15) Technology came along and now it flows (00:09:17) very nicely very quickly to new ideas (00:09:19) and good ideas VI via Venture Capital (00:09:22) via private Equity Bitcoin new ideas can (00:09:24) pop up and money will flow where the (00:09:26) best ideas are so that's fantastic one (00:09:28) level but um moving from money as a main (00:09:31) mode of discourse in the world to (00:09:33) information as a main mode of discourse (00:09:35) in the world so for example any startup (00:09:37) would much rather gather data about (00:09:39) things rather than gating money early (00:09:41) because they can monetize the data much (00:09:42) more and they're fungible today you can (00:09:45) convert money into information and vice (00:09:47) versa over time information becomes a (00:09:50) high order bit right because take your (00:09:52) health you're much more interested in (00:09:54) the different biomarkers you can track (00:09:57) then how much it'll cost you to fix (00:09:59) things ET because the information is (00:10:01) more valuable so I think as a at a very (00:10:04) metaphysical level we're shifting from (00:10:06) the Quest for money and the Quest for uh (00:10:10) greed Etc and energy that way and (00:10:12) shifting it into information when we (00:10:14) move that transition now Things become (00:10:17) really powerful I think this is the (00:10:19) massive Insight that Ray kwell had when (00:10:22) he started tracking Moors law that as we (00:10:24) digitize we turn things into information (00:10:27) that information can then be manipulated (00:10:29) into back into matter back into money (00:10:32) and vice versa and you have this amazing (00:10:34) cyclical pattern that can take place and (00:10:37) little by little we're moving more and (00:10:38) more into that over time money will (00:10:40) become less important on this scale if (00:10:43) you went back a thousand years ago we (00:10:45) were all working 18 hours a day in the (00:10:46) fields to put three meals on the table (00:10:48) and you some of us still are (00:10:50) asep some of us still are but we but you (00:10:53) didn't have a choice then you pretty (00:10:55) much had to do that only a very small (00:10:56) percent of the population could not do (00:10:59) that right today that number of that (00:11:00) population that can doesn't have to do (00:11:02) that is much much much bigger and little (00:11:04) by little as we uh uh do better vertical (00:11:07) farming and solar energy into all sorts (00:11:09) of remote parts in the world and (00:11:11) satellite internet and water extraction (00:11:14) out of the atmosphere pretty much will (00:11:16) be able to have an amazing life anywhere (00:11:17) on the planet at for every level of (00:11:19) humanity that's why Peter gets so (00:11:22) excited that's why we get so excited (00:11:24) about the technological progress the (00:11:26) problem is our social systems and all (00:11:29) our infrastructure and all our (00:11:30) institutions are not geared for smooth (00:11:33) progress in this thing I think for to (00:11:35) summarize those lines that you were (00:11:37) talking about I would quote eio Wilson (00:11:39) the famous biologist who said um our the (00:11:43) problem with humanity is that our (00:11:44) emotions are Paleolithic our (00:11:46) institutions are medieval and our (00:11:48) technolog is Godlike right pretty much (00:11:50) all the problems in the world come from (00:11:52) the gaps in those layers and I think the (00:11:54) pressure is so intense today that we'll (00:11:57) any leader today will spend the next 20 (00:11:58) years of Our Lives (00:12:00) basically dealing with the gaps in those (00:12:02) in those layers yeah let's name that the (00:12:05) human problem the human problem so my (00:12:08) thing is the human problem is not going (00:12:09) anywhere so for instance you were just (00:12:11) talking about um right now people are (00:12:13) seeking money that becomes the game but (00:12:15) now the information is going to become (00:12:17) the higher order bit people are going to (00:12:19) start pursuing that but what I will ask (00:12:21) is why and the answer to me seems (00:12:24) self-evidently it's more powerful so you (00:12:27) still have humans playing a game of (00:12:29) power which is why I'm still very (00:12:32) concerned about these valleys of Despair (00:12:34) Because unless something changes in our (00:12:37) biology that makes us pursue different (00:12:39) things we will simply derange AI we will (00:12:43) simply derange the pursuit of (00:12:45) information and while you and I share a (00:12:48) very optimistic vision of the long-term (00:12:50) future because of that long (00:12:52) Arc what way do you see us so going back (00:12:55) to your branching choice between madmax (00:12:58) or Utopia (00:13:00) how do we nudge Humanity to not go down (00:13:04) madmax which you're saying we're doing (00:13:06) currently and instead go to Utopia what (00:13:09) how do you solve the human problem I (00:13:11) think you open up as fast as possible (00:13:14) and decentralize as fast as possible (00:13:17) okay so the uh number two to uh zalinsky (00:13:23) in the Ukraine is one of our community (00:13:25) members so i' we've got our Global open (00:13:27) EXO community that are building for for (00:13:30) the 21st century building companies and (00:13:32) transforming governments Etc um and I (00:13:35) chat I was chatting with him and he was (00:13:37) asking some advice it turns out they've (00:13:39) been using my book a bit in in their (00:13:42) dealing with the what's happening there (00:13:45) and one of the com comments I made is (00:13:47) look this is how is it that you've (00:13:49) become so resilient as in terms of the (00:13:52) in the face of the aggression and he (00:13:54) said we've decentralized the country (00:13:57) we've decentralized the country so (00:13:58) there's no single point of attack for (00:14:00) energy or for infrastructure or for (00:14:02) electricity Etc and we've been doing (00:14:04) that for 10 years because we could see (00:14:06) this could be a likely possibility so I (00:14:08) think what happens is when you (00:14:09) decentralize things become much much (00:14:11) more resilient just take energy for (00:14:14) example if you decentralize we can have (00:14:16) solar energy powering lots of small (00:14:18) communities then there's no need for (00:14:20) security at the central power grid (00:14:22) because there isn't one and anybody can (00:14:24) generate solar energy at a very local (00:14:26) level and the efficiency means we'll get (00:14:28) better and better at in it and better (00:14:30) and better generating it and now you (00:14:32) have amazing resource capability (00:14:34) anywhere and a wonderful level most of (00:14:37) our Wars over the last 100 years have (00:14:39) been over energy oil specifically right (00:14:41) so when we free ourselves from that (00:14:43) hopefully you should get to a peaceful (00:14:45) nature now I was under the impression (00:14:48) for a while that huh when we get to (00:14:49) abundance that we won't be fighting (00:14:50) anymore and I got disillusioned from (00:14:53) that by a couple of the deep thinkers (00:14:55) who said no we'll still have lots of (00:14:57) human conflict because humans are really (00:14:59) geared towards conflict in X prise we (00:15:03) try and push people towards healthy (00:15:05) competition and let's work things out (00:15:07) that way we've got all sorts of really (00:15:09) great ways of dealing with the natural (00:15:11) conflict that we bring up in human (00:15:12) beings for example sports teams the (00:15:15) Olympics uh uh Etc and that allows us to (00:15:19) vent a lot of kind of aggression that (00:15:21) might otherwise come out in other ways (00:15:23) uh but we still have to deal with the (00:15:25) fundamental human nature problem and I'm (00:15:27) I'm hopefully the the abundance inside (00:15:30) gets there faster than some lone uh (00:15:33) small team of people trying to use AI to (00:15:36) design a virus that will attack all (00:15:38) middle-aged Indian bald guys right that (00:15:41) would be the The Hope okay uh so (00:15:44) decentralization I am one of the few (00:15:46) people that is beyond obsessed with (00:15:48) cryptocurrencies web 3 uh and believes (00:15:52) that decentralization is just deeply (00:15:56) problematic so the reason I think that (00:15:58) decentral ation is deeply problematic is (00:16:01) that you cannot Galvanize the energy of (00:16:04) humans well and so while some things (00:16:07) will respond to decentralization very (00:16:09) well so take um the very nature of the (00:16:12) blockchain the fact that it is (00:16:13) distributed that they all run as nodes (00:16:15) is brilliant I'm here for that I love it (00:16:17) the most yeah uh however I am doing (00:16:21) battle with coinbase for instance which (00:16:22) keeps wanting to verify my identity (00:16:25) keeps asking me where I got my money I'm (00:16:26) like bro I'm about as public as you get (00:16:28) I don't know what else you want want me (00:16:29) to show you uh but I want them to be (00:16:33) centralized because I don't want to have (00:16:36) to like do a bunch of crazy stuff to (00:16:39) make sure that I'm getting my um crypto (00:16:42) Exchange in a safe way all that stuff so (00:16:44) I'm I'm making a willing trade uh for (00:16:47) Simplicity for security I know all the (00:16:49) memes but nonetheless and I think that (00:16:53) more people are like me okay so people (00:16:56) want centralization and you have a hard (00:16:59) time aiming everybody's energy in the (00:17:02) same direction when all the decision (00:17:03) making is completely distributed yeah (00:17:06) you also have what our founding fathers (00:17:07) were trying to protect against which is (00:17:09) the tyranny of the majority yes and so (00:17:12) there are reasons I think to be (00:17:15) skeptical that decentralization is a (00:17:17) magical solution um so let's use Ukraine (00:17:22) since you brought them up as an example (00:17:24) there's a guy named John (00:17:25) mimer brilliant political thinker um (00:17:30) military I don't know if he's officially (00:17:32) a strategist but anyway seems to deeply (00:17:34) understand that and he just keeps saying (00:17:37) Ukraine is going to lose it is (00:17:40) inevitable and they're going to end up a (00:17:42) dysfunctional rump State and when I hear (00:17:45) that rhetoric I'm like okay one let me (00:17:48) just be very clear I have not I'm not (00:17:49) close enough to the problem or to just (00:17:51) that thing in general to know if he's (00:17:53) right but there's so much internal logic (00:17:56) to the way that he approaches it so I'm (00:17:58) looking at your argument they've (00:17:59) decentralized a bunch of things so it (00:18:01) becomes harder to attack but that also (00:18:04) makes it feel like each region is going (00:18:05) to be easier to overtake and so if I'm (00:18:08) Russia I'm just going to go Zone by Zone (00:18:10) by Zone being like I don't have to worry (00:18:12) about the whole Collective because you (00:18:13) guys are decentralized so I'm just going (00:18:14) to eat this node and then eat this node (00:18:17) yeah uh however the problem with eating (00:18:20) these nodes is keeping that node is (00:18:23) non-trivial okay so for example they (00:18:25) installed a bunch of Russian Mayors in (00:18:27) some of the initial towns that they and (00:18:29) they just put car bombs under them and (00:18:31) started blowing them up so now who wants (00:18:34) to go be a Russian mayor of a local (00:18:36) Ukrainian town when your lifespan is (00:18:38) going to be very short so the resistance (00:18:41) is going to be uh strong just because (00:18:44) they don't have a choice right this is (00:18:46) their this is the existential for them (00:18:49) and this is the same thing why it's (00:18:51) difficult to take over Afghanistan or (00:18:53) take over a it may become a rum State (00:18:56) that's possible but if that's the case (00:18:58) it was going to become that anyway way (00:19:00) and you might as well fight it which is (00:19:02) what they're doing right now the (00:19:03) question is can they win and I think (00:19:05) they can't win without obviously a huge (00:19:07) amount of Western aid but I think they (00:19:09) could win in that in that situation what (00:19:11) do you think becomes the galvanizing (00:19:14) Force so you mentioned Afghanistan I (00:19:17) have a feeling without a sense of (00:19:19) cultural identity and possibly religion (00:19:22) it would be easy to disrupt but there's (00:19:25) a galvanizing force that allows the (00:19:30) distributed nature of all of that to (00:19:32) work that they still have this thing (00:19:34) that sits over them that unites them (00:19:36) yeah so this is a great question is what (00:19:39) is that binding Force because it used to (00:19:41) be religion right we started actually it (00:19:43) used to be tribal structures because we (00:19:45) would cooperate on nomadic tribes and (00:19:47) the tribes would then fight and over a (00:19:49) time period of time we the as technology (00:19:52) be became better the tribes that get (00:19:53) bigger and bigger in formed countries (00:19:55) and Empires right the Mongols that you (00:19:57) mentioned earlier my my favorite thing (00:19:59) about the Mongols is an old from an old (00:20:01) BBC documentary that said they destroyed (00:20:04) anything they got angry at and they got (00:20:06) angry at anything they didn't understand (00:20:08) so they came down from the steps down to (00:20:10) Han China found a million Chinese (00:20:13) Farmers doing agriculture didn't (00:20:15) understand it got angry at it and (00:20:16) literally wiped out a million Farmers (00:20:18) just because they because of that (00:20:20) cascading logic right um now if you grow (00:20:24) an Empire to a certain level uh can you (00:20:27) keep it or not keep it as one area the (00:20:29) ones that worked best are the ones that (00:20:30) decentralized the administration and (00:20:32) navigated local preferences in a (00:20:35) powerful way Akbar in in India the (00:20:38) Mongols did it pretty powerfully and (00:20:40) pretty well Alexander the Great managed (00:20:42) it pretty well the Roman Empire did (00:20:44) pretty well there's that whole idea of (00:20:46) the fourth turning and all of the (00:20:47) cyclical aspects I I I look at all these (00:20:51) folks picky (00:20:53) ralo uh Yuval Harari Etc and I think (00:20:56) they're incredibly insightful about the (00:20:58) past I find they're not that useful (00:21:01) about the future why because I think (00:21:03) this inflection point and I know this is (00:21:05) a tired uh kind of meme of this time is (00:21:09) different but I think this time is (00:21:11) really different the combination of (00:21:13) energetic abundance and lifespan that (00:21:16) we're about to break uh life extension (00:21:19) Plus AI makes it a completely different (00:21:22) cocktail than we've ever seen before in (00:21:24) the history of humanity and so I think (00:21:26) this is a complete step change and this (00:21:28) is why it's so exciting to be around (00:21:31) today you should know the following (00:21:33) three numbers (00:21:35) 37,251 (00:21:37) 37,000 that is the number of businesses (00:21:39) which have upgraded to netsuite by (00:21:42) Oracle 25 netsuite turns 25 this year so (00:21:45) you know that they know what they're (00:21:46) doing they've been around for a long (00:21:48) time that is 25 years of helping (00:21:50) businesses do more with less closer (00:21:52) books in days not weeks and drive down (00:21:55) costs one because your business is truly (00:21:58) one of a kind so you're going to need a (00:22:00) customized solution for all of your key (00:22:03) performance indicators in one efficient (00:22:05) system with one source of Truth which (00:22:07) you will get from netw Suite manage risk (00:22:09) get reliable forecasts and improve (00:22:12) margins everything you need to grow all (00:22:14) in one place right now download net (00:22:16) suite's popular kpi checklist designed (00:22:19) to give you consistently excellent (00:22:21) performance absolutely free at (00:22:23) netsuite.com (00:22:25) Theory that's netsuite.com Theory (00:22:29) to get your own kpi checklist (00:22:31) netsuite.com (00:22:33) theory for the audience that doesn't (00:22:35) know you you have a business um (00:22:38) framework that I think is going to be (00:22:40) really useful to help us think through (00:22:42) because um I keep finding you drift to (00:22:45) the well once we're on the other side of (00:22:47) this there's energy abundance and it (00:22:48) solves all these medical problems and (00:22:50) those are the things that I think calms (00:22:51) everybody down in the long run but they (00:22:53) do not help us in the next call it from (00:22:56) now to seven years is sort of the time (00:22:59) window where I think things are going to (00:23:01) get really weird so really fast walk (00:23:03) people through um your thinking around (00:23:09) um how in business we can use some of (00:23:13) these strategies to uh become an (00:23:16) exponential organization sure so you (00:23:18) know if you went back to the 20th (00:23:20) century the most successful (00:23:22) organizations were the biggest top- down (00:23:24) hierarchical command and control (00:23:25) structures pyramid structured with a CEO (00:23:28) at the top (00:23:29) uh designed for two things designed for (00:23:31) efficiency and designed for (00:23:32) predictability right if you're if you're (00:23:35) Pampers you're trying to deliver the (00:23:36) same box of Pampers in a million (00:23:38) locations around the world or McDonald's (00:23:40) or healthc care services or whatever (00:23:42) today you need to be architected for (00:23:44) agility flexibility adaptability and (00:23:46) speed okay and we found uh in the last (00:23:49) episode we did with you that the top 10 (00:23:51) of the Fortune 100 that are the most (00:23:53) flexible and agile compared to the (00:23:55) bottom 10 in our opinion that are the (00:23:56) least EXO friendly had delivered 40 (00:23:59) times better shareholder returns over a (00:24:01) 7-year period than the on so there's a (00:24:03) clear economic thesis here that as the (00:24:05) world becomes more volatile your ability (00:24:07) to adapt will drive market value and (00:24:10) drive have a better organization so how (00:24:12) do you build that and we call these (00:24:14) exponential organizations where you have (00:24:15) a massive purpose like cure cancer Elon (00:24:18) has three take us to space solve (00:24:19) Transportation solve the climate um and (00:24:22) then you build an organization with a a (00:24:25) set of externalities like leveraging (00:24:27) Community like Ted does um leveraging (00:24:30) assets that you don't own like Airbnb uh (00:24:33) not hiring your own staff like uber and (00:24:35) then a set of internal (00:24:36) mechanisms like The Lean Startup (00:24:39) thinking ideas and decentralize orc (00:24:41) structures because you can push (00:24:43) decision- making to the edge we found (00:24:44) that the more of these characteristics (00:24:46) are used the better and we're clear now (00:24:48) over the next decade that every (00:24:50) government Department impact project (00:24:52) nonprofit for profit will tend towards (00:24:55) these structures because we now have (00:24:56) enough evidence to show that that's (00:24:58) better so for example when we talk to (00:25:01) CEOs today they are not AI ready at all (00:25:03) because they're old 20th century (00:25:05) organization structures is absolutely (00:25:08) not set up for what's coming with AI (00:25:11) right they're not AI ready and so (00:25:12) they're all asking is can you please (00:25:14) give us a workshop set us up with some (00:25:16) help on how do we navigate Ai and I see (00:25:18) two problems that are Paramount today (00:25:21) with companies implementing AI the first (00:25:23) is they jump in very quickly and they (00:25:25) can't see the Rocks before they dive in (00:25:27) and they get into trouble either by (00:25:29) accidentally putting all their data into (00:25:30) chat GPT or um um putting the wrong (00:25:34) models into place and the second issue (00:25:37) which is the bigger issue is the immune (00:25:38) system problem so I first came across (00:25:41) this problem at Yahoo and I was running (00:25:44) their incubator and the more disruptive (00:25:46) an idea we came up with in the incubator (00:25:48) the less the company could handle it (00:25:50) right I was like wait you hired me to do (00:25:52) disruptive stuff and I bring you (00:25:53) something and you guys can't cope right (00:25:55) you can't integrate it why because of (00:25:57) that that if efficiency and and Agility (00:26:00) problem um that really stuck in my head (00:26:03) and going through seven years of (00:26:04) building Singularity and noticing that (00:26:07) we have 20 Gutenberg moments hitting us (00:26:09) AI is hitting us right now but we have (00:26:11) biotech we have blockchain is in as (00:26:15) Gutenberg moment solar energy is a (00:26:17) Gutenberg moment life extension is a (00:26:19) Gutenberg moment um we will not be able (00:26:22) to manage the future with our current (00:26:25) existing organization structures or our (00:26:27) current government structure or (00:26:29) institution (00:26:30) structures so we architected this model (00:26:34) it we now can see that it will work and (00:26:37) we the two we have to solve two things (00:26:39) one is um uh what's the thoughtful way (00:26:42) in which you apply technology to derive (00:26:45) Great Value from it secondly how do you (00:26:47) navigate that immune system response and (00:26:49) so we're coaching companies and so on (00:26:51) how to do this because if you push AI (00:26:53) into a company all the people go whoa (00:26:56) Nelly and they freak out and uh the (00:26:58) antibodies attack you and nothing moves (00:27:00) this analogy was first given to me by (00:27:03) the CTO of Autodesk I was chatting with (00:27:05) him and I was complaining about he's (00:27:07) like oh you've got an immune system (00:27:08) response and I went ding it's the best (00:27:10) articulated framing you try anything (00:27:13) disruptive in a big company and it's (00:27:14) worse in the public sector because we (00:27:17) have taxis fighting Uber we have Bankers (00:27:18) fighting Bitcoin we're not progressing (00:27:21) Society along enough quickly enough (00:27:23) because when there's new technological (00:27:24) breakthroughs all the antibodies freak (00:27:26) out and we get so we have to solve that (00:27:28) problem problem at a cultural level CU (00:27:31) companies have their immune systems but (00:27:33) and governments have their but (00:27:34) institutions have really bad immune (00:27:36) systems education God help you if you (00:27:38) try and update Academia religion has (00:27:40) probably the worst immune system because (00:27:41) they'll kill you in in literally in (00:27:44) those cases right um so I I remember (00:27:47) having a conversation with Salman Rashi (00:27:49) a few years ago and he was talking about (00:27:52) the fatwa and I asked him how was that (00:27:54) like for you and he said you know I grew (00:27:56) up in the 60s and he had this really (00:27:58) tired tone in his voice he goes I grew (00:28:00) up in the' 60s we thought we nailed (00:28:02) religion we thought it was done and then (00:28:05) in the 80s it comes roaring back and (00:28:06) boom immune system problem did you talk (00:28:09) to him before or after cuz he got (00:28:10) attacked like got he lost an eyed him or (00:28:12) something yeah that was just recently I (00:28:14) haven't talked to for decades they laid (00:28:17) in weight they well not laid in weight (00:28:19) but the problem is that when you have (00:28:22) deep-seated institutional or political (00:28:24) beliefs they don't go away they're wired (00:28:26) into your limic system so all religions (00:28:28) work in the following way okay you take (00:28:30) a young child below the age of 10 you (00:28:33) give them an absolute truth an (00:28:35) assumptive truth like Virgin Mary (00:28:37) Muhammad is the last prophet Jesus is is (00:28:40) the Son of God whatever and then you (00:28:43) bind it into them with the ritual (00:28:44) repetition and a lot of sweets a lot of (00:28:46) sugar okay and all religious functions (00:28:48) operate on this and then when the when (00:28:51) the neocortex forms in the from the 10 (00:28:54) to 13y old age the kid's brain is (00:28:57) already deeply wired with these absolute (00:28:59) assumptive truth and you can't if you if (00:29:01) you stress it at that point you evoke a (00:29:03) fight ORF flight response this is why (00:29:05) the Jesuits say give me the boy until (00:29:07) the age of seven I'll give you the Met (00:29:09) right because you can wire a young child (00:29:11) so all religions operate that way we (00:29:13) have to undo uh some of that damage that (00:29:15) we're doing to kids with religion around (00:29:18) this but the problem that you pointed (00:29:19) out that's really important is what's (00:29:21) the binding coagulant that holds Society (00:29:24) together in the absence of that model (00:29:27) and that's the big challenge we have to (00:29:28) figure out storytelling is one aspect of (00:29:31) it we have modern myths like Star Wars (00:29:34) and Star Trek and others that are (00:29:35) popping up but they're not they're not (00:29:38) connective enough as tissue to hold us (00:29:40) together yeah agreed also I think that (00:29:42) even though I've dedicated my life to (00:29:44) that form of Storytelling it it does not (00:29:46) touch the realm of religion which is why (00:29:49) I'm utterly fascinated with what's going (00:29:50) on right now uh what I think of is the (00:29:53) um the tradical isation of society so we (00:29:56) are going to (00:29:57) be radicalized in the direction of the (00:30:00) traditional I think we're the next 3 (00:30:02) years is really going to be marked by (00:30:04) that and I think because of AI it's just (00:30:05) going to massively fuel those Flames but (00:30:09) uh before we get lost on that the the (00:30:12) idea of the immune system which I think (00:30:13) is incredibly important as you were (00:30:15) talking this is so hilarious to how my (00:30:17) mind works I was like he's setting his (00:30:19) own trap okay (00:30:21) so keep in mind what I really want (00:30:24) people to understand is I think and I (00:30:27) think you'll agree with this the world (00:30:28) is going to be fundamentally different (00:30:30) three to five years from now yes and to (00:30:33) a point you start stretching that out (00:30:34) far enough and it it becomes absolutely (00:30:37) unrecognizable if you have a kid that's (00:30:39) in kindergarten now by the time they (00:30:40) reach high school the world will look (00:30:42) nothing like it does now this is a very (00:30:45) near-term (00:30:47) concern what you're calling the immune (00:30:49) system which to me is a reflection of (00:30:51) what I'm calling the human problem which (00:30:53) is humans long for power humans have (00:30:56) Pursuit uh dialed to 11 so want to get (00:30:58) better they want to acre more power we (00:31:01) all we also have this massive quest for (00:31:03) control to make sense of the world to (00:31:06) control the world right because you know (00:31:09) if you go back to our our um (00:31:12) evolutionary Roots it was a survive or (00:31:14) die either you manage the world around (00:31:16) you or it manages you and you're at (00:31:18) you're you're done pretty quickly so you (00:31:20) have to gain control of your environment (00:31:22) as fast as possible and as aggressively (00:31:23) as possible in that model we are now (00:31:27) controlling this most of the species on (00:31:29) the planet with whether we like it or (00:31:31) not we're controlling the atmosphere (00:31:33) whether we like it or not accidentally (00:31:35) badly um now we're trying to manage this (00:31:38) future of technology and this is where (00:31:40) regulatory comes in right we try and put (00:31:42) in guard rails for how we manage (00:31:44) technology going forward and you know (00:31:46) over the centuries we've done a pretty (00:31:48) good job of it the big challenge with (00:31:50) regulator is how do you extract the (00:31:52) promise of Technology without the Peril (00:31:55) right like I can use fire to heat my (00:31:58) house and I can use it to burn down your (00:31:59) house how do we navigate that I tend to (00:32:02) be really optimistic about this because (00:32:04) of the old eBay study that I think we (00:32:06) talked about last (00:32:07) time so when Craigslist and eBay emerged (00:32:12) um for the first time you could study (00:32:14) human nature at scale and because I can (00:32:16) on Craigslist very easily put up a fake (00:32:19) picture of a Macbook you send me $1,000 (00:32:21) and I'm off to Fiji right and I can mask (00:32:23) my email address pretty quickly same (00:32:25) thing with Craiglist so sociologist and (00:32:27) anthropologist got pretty interested in (00:32:29) this said oh we can actually study human (00:32:31) nature and I can equally do good or bad (00:32:34) what's the actual ratio right so they (00:32:36) started studying these systems Kajiji in (00:32:38) Canada Craigslist here eBay Etc and it (00:32:41) turns out very consistently across these (00:32:43) systems where a human being can do a (00:32:45) positive or fraudulent transaction the (00:32:47) actual ratio turns out to be something (00:32:49) like 8,000 to1 consistently okay which (00:32:53) is really surreal and Incredibly (00:32:55) exciting actually because that means if (00:32:57) you opened up drones and said anybody do (00:33:00) whatever they want with drones you'll (00:33:01) get 8,000 positive use cases to the one (00:33:03) bad guy okay which make which is (00:33:06) fantastic for society except our current (00:33:08) model is drones come out the regulatory (00:33:11) goes oh my God somebody might load up a (00:33:14) a C4 on a drone and flyed into the White (00:33:16) House just can ban all drones and then (00:33:18) slowly open that tap and over a 20-year (00:33:20) period we get the benefits of that (00:33:22) technology so we have a ton of problems (00:33:24) with imprisons today with drones flying (00:33:26) cell phones and cameras and money over (00:33:28) the Prison Walls and dropping them into (00:33:30) the prisoners and the wardens are going (00:33:32) crazy right so hello uh let's deal with (00:33:35) this in a different way so now there's (00:33:37) Technologies to solve the Drone uh (00:33:39) interference problem we'll get there but (00:33:41) this is a technological uh uh Arbitrage (00:33:44) problem and so the challenge is how do (00:33:46) we make sure we're doing good things (00:33:48) with technology not the bad things with (00:33:50) technology and over the years I think (00:33:52) we're doing a pretty good job of it in (00:33:54) general but I think that with the (00:33:56) democratization of technology and the (00:33:57) easy access to anybody that has access (00:33:59) to AI or can home build a drone this (00:34:02) becomes harder and harder so we have to (00:34:04) lift human nature and get to abundance (00:34:07) and give everybody what they want (00:34:08) materially as fast as we can so they (00:34:10) don't go down the dark path is is One (00:34:12) path that that was an obvious one I (00:34:15) think even if I were to accept the ratio (00:34:18) of good actors to Bad actors the thing (00:34:21) that's missing is the level to which a (00:34:23) bad actor Will exploit yes important the (00:34:26) amplitude of that negative is growing (00:34:28) right so the amount of damage one person (00:34:29) can do is growing exponentially and so (00:34:32) our ability to control one person is (00:34:33) dropping exponentially that's a not a (00:34:36) great equation um we have Mark Goodman (00:34:38) as one of our community members he's a (00:34:40) he was a futurist for the FBI uh so if (00:34:43) you can get him drunk he has awesome (00:34:44) stories about how criminals and (00:34:45) terrorists use bad use technology in a (00:34:48) negative way and it's actually (00:34:50) fascinating to see how creative they are (00:34:52) around some of this um but the the big (00:34:55) challenge is the amplitude is actually (00:34:57) growing back to the Middle East Indian (00:34:59) ball guy virus yeah which hopefully they (00:35:02) never make I would be very sad even (00:35:05) though most people are going to do good (00:35:07) things you're going to have these (00:35:09) moments of uh exploitation people will (00:35:12) take advantage of that the amplitude of (00:35:14) that is growing you also have the immune (00:35:16) system response that is just trying to (00:35:19) stop change from happening uh which can (00:35:22) be good or bad but ultimately I think it (00:35:26) is to your point you have a a creature (00:35:29) that is born of evolution that had to (00:35:31) learn to control its environment that (00:35:33) had to have Pursuit dialed to 11 so it (00:35:35) would try to go out and try to control (00:35:37) its environment and do better things for (00:35:38) the group and all that stuff and acquire (00:35:40) power and all that so I am still at this (00:35:43) moment of before us is a fork in the (00:35:46) road and EV you have really done a great (00:35:50) job of laying out what humans are like (00:35:52) but I still don't see the thing other (00:35:54) than AI finally begins delivering on (00:35:58) some of the promises and then we all go (00:36:00) okay yeah cool like I'm going to embrace (00:36:02) this but I still think we have to go (00:36:04) through Mad Max I don't see any way (00:36:06) around that equation um so if you feel (00:36:09) like there's an argument left that will (00:36:11) convince me if not please detail for us (00:36:15) what are those amazing things that AI is (00:36:18) going to deliver us that will make (00:36:20) having gone through this Valley of (00:36:21) dispair well worth unleashing AI upon (00:36:24) the world okay so important to note that (00:36:28) we don't have a choice about unleashing (00:36:30) AI into the world Kevin Kelly wrote this (00:36:32) book what technology wants and basically (00:36:34) AR showed in very clear thing that (00:36:37) technology is moving at its own pace and (00:36:39) our only hope is to really keep up with (00:36:41) it because it's it's taken on a life of (00:36:44) its own in a sense because if we try and (00:36:45) regulate AI then other people go run a (00:36:49) muck with it and so it ends up being an (00:36:50) arms race and you end up having to do it (00:36:52) anyway so now uh let me give you the (00:36:55) some use cases where AI can radically (00:36:57) change things in a short period of time (00:36:59) for the radically better um I'll Channel (00:37:02) Imad mustak here this the head of St who (00:37:04) is the head of stability and one of the (00:37:06) projects he's working on is can we take (00:37:09) all the healthc Care data in a country (00:37:12) and load it up into an LM and all the (00:37:14) legal legislative the law books and put (00:37:17) that into an llm and all the software (00:37:20) codebase globally and put that in and (00:37:22) you give every child three or four links (00:37:24) a doctor a lawyer a software programmer (00:37:27) and a General AI helper okay now if you (00:37:30) give every kid in Africa a link with a (00:37:32) doctor and there's a medical problem at (00:37:35) home they will just start using it and (00:37:37) transforming their uh Health Care (00:37:39) locally for (00:37:41) free and this will completely change the (00:37:44) world same thing with education as we (00:37:46) load up all the educational content into (00:37:48) an AI it's going to do a way better job (00:37:51) at teaching kids and kids can self-learn (00:37:53) in a much more effective way than our (00:37:55) current systems can do it so you do (00:37:58) those two things uh and Healthcare and (00:38:00) education suddenly become free and (00:38:02) adapted and personalized to every child (00:38:04) in the world that's an unbelievable (00:38:06) future so the whole ecosystem and the (00:38:10) methodology we've been building is how (00:38:11) do you enable those people to build as (00:38:13) fast as possible and build that (00:38:15) optimistic future as fast as possible (00:38:17) and that's what exponential (00:38:19) organizations so EXO as we use it as a (00:38:21) metaphor is the is the thing at the edge (00:38:24) exoskeleton exoplanet exothermic (00:38:27) reaction so we want to find EXO Builders (00:38:30) and EXO Heroes that's the collection (00:38:32) we're launching on finding people that (00:38:34) are building things at the edge because (00:38:35) we need to build that edge very fast and (00:38:37) let that become the new Gravity Center (00:38:39) very fast because the current system is (00:38:41) imploding think like a Sci-Fi writer for (00:38:44) me for a second yes so a Sci-Fi riter's (00:38:46) job is not to imagine the automobile (00:38:48) it's to predict the traffic jam so what (00:38:52) are the if we're giving people access to (00:38:55) all this information around Healthcare (00:38:57) they have a private doctor a private (00:38:58) lawyer uh they're educated it's hyper (00:39:01) tailored to them we're going to unlock (00:39:03) as much of their intelligence and their (00:39:05) creativity as is going to be possible um (00:39:08) what are the things that are born of (00:39:11) that well I think there will be some (00:39:14) negatives you'll may have accidents (00:39:15) people misinterpret the data people do (00:39:18) Source the wrong information from their (00:39:20) bodies and put it into the AI and you'll (00:39:22) get the wrong diagnosis lots of issues (00:39:24) can come along but the general outcome (00:39:27) was the benefits will so outweigh the (00:39:29) negatives that I think it's it's (00:39:31) absolutely worth doing okay there's no (00:39:33) question in my mind that giving kids the (00:39:36) ability to learn at their own pace on (00:39:38) their own and then socializing as they (00:39:40) need to in different ways is going to (00:39:42) transform the education system in a much (00:39:44) more powerful way from a push system to (00:39:46) a pull system right can I just delve (00:39:49) into education just for a second please (00:39:51) Okay so we've been doing education for a (00:39:52) couple hundred years on what I call John (00:39:55) Hegel used to call the push system you (00:39:57) get a bunch of kids into a classroom and (00:39:58) you try and cram algebra into them right (00:40:00) mostly they're thinking about lunch (00:40:02) little by little we move to a pool basis (00:40:04) where I pull I take a new job or new (00:40:06) role or new gig and I pull down the (00:40:08) knowledge I need to do that job right (00:40:11) that's great now we're and the whole (00:40:13) education system for the last few (00:40:14) hundred years has been supply side go (00:40:16) become an accountant an engineer a (00:40:18) doctor a lawyer um um a plumber and sell (00:40:21) that in the job Marketplace acquire set (00:40:24) of skills which is what universities do (00:40:25) they give you that job schooling which (00:40:27) is all that universities do today and (00:40:29) then you go to the job market the demand (00:40:31) side and you try and sell those skills (00:40:32) in the demand side I think what we're (00:40:34) going to see happen is we're going to go (00:40:35) from push-based education to pull-based (00:40:38) learning but demand driven so for (00:40:40) example if you take Elon he's like I'm (00:40:42) going to build an electric car and let (00:40:44) me go find the Technologies the skills (00:40:46) the capabilities I need no experience or (00:40:48) capability of doing it at the time but (00:40:50) he'll pull them towards him and solve (00:40:52) that problem so what we see kids doing (00:40:55) this is what's encapsulated in the (00:40:56) massive transformative purpose in the in (00:40:58) the EXO model pick a huge purpose cure (00:41:01) cancer okay and then go find the (00:41:03) Technologies and skills and capabilities (00:41:05) and pull those to you as you need to to (00:41:07) solve those problems that I think is (00:41:09) going to be the future of Education (00:41:11) getting there from the existing system (00:41:13) is (00:41:14) impossible so you need technology to (00:41:16) help you bridge that gap between a and b (00:41:19) and you need it to be permissionless so (00:41:21) one of the most exciting vectors of (00:41:24) human development that I'm seeing today (00:41:25) is something I call PDI per lless (00:41:28) disruptive innovation okay if you wanted (00:41:30) to do disruptive innovation throughout (00:41:32) history you had to get a sponsor an (00:41:36) investor a government to bless you (00:41:38) somebody had to give you permission to (00:41:40) go do that or give you the resources to (00:41:42) go do that look at um ethereum vitalic (00:41:45) bter middle class kid out of Toronto (00:41:47) gets together with eight friends boom (00:41:49) they go create ethereum for no money (00:41:52) with no cash no resources and boom it's (00:41:54) now a $400 billion ecosystem right um (00:41:57) take my favorite example is this is the (00:42:00) is a car that's called the Vega it's um (00:42:03) it looks like a Lamborghini it's the (00:42:05) third fastest car in the world 900 (00:42:07) horsepower this thing it's being (00:42:09) designed and engineered and built in Sri (00:42:12) Lanka which is an island of fishermen (00:42:14) and Farmers with no investors ecosystem (00:42:17) experience education or track record I'm (00:42:20) going to suggest that if you can do (00:42:22) ethereum or if you can build the third (00:42:24) fastest car in the world on an island I (00:42:27) love showing it German car Executives (00:42:29) their brains literally melt when they (00:42:31) see this right um I'm going to suggest (00:42:33) you can do anything anywhere so now we (00:42:35) can give people the tools to build (00:42:37) radical new Solutions in vertical (00:42:39) farming and a new battery technology all (00:42:42) over the world and just let them go and (00:42:44) they'll figure it out and that's why (00:42:45) we're trying to De that's why the (00:42:47) decentralized world is so important we (00:42:49) need to decentralize Innovation as fast (00:42:51) as possible and that Vector might pull (00:42:53) us out as faster than the Mad Max vector (00:42:57) so that's my (00:42:58) hope okay it might pull us faster than (00:43:01) the Mad Max Vector okay so that's the (00:43:03) well it might get us to a a secure place (00:43:06) faster than madmax will destroy (00:43:09) us got it so we're we are going into (00:43:12) madmax territory but hopefully before (00:43:14) that can completely destroy everybody we (00:43:17) yeah for example we're mostly in the (00:43:19) middle east fighting for the last 100 (00:43:21) years because of oil if we have solar (00:43:23) energy delivering an energy abundance (00:43:25) which will happen in the next four (00:43:26) doublings about 8 to 10 10 years then (00:43:29) you don't need oil and therefore what (00:43:31) are you fighting over right so that's (00:43:33) the hope now will we find other things (00:43:36) to fight about absolutely because we're (00:43:37) human beings but but it'll be less (00:43:40) existential I hope if you look at the (00:43:42) number of people dying in Wars today is (00:43:44) actually incredibly small compared to (00:43:46) 100 years ago 200 years ago 500 so the (00:43:49) data is very clear the trend is very (00:43:51) good uh but we need to get out of our (00:43:54) current structures because our current (00:43:56) structures will take us back my my (00:43:58) biggest observation I've ever had about (00:44:00) human beings is that human beings would (00:44:02) much rather be comfortable than happy H (00:44:05) can you give me more detail on that (00:44:06) please yeah uh I may not Embrace uh (00:44:11) healthc care Technologies they may (00:44:12) deliver longevity because I'm so stuck (00:44:14) in a judeo-christian religious framework (00:44:16) of the world that heaven is a good thing (00:44:18) and I want to get to heaven as fast as (00:44:21) possible that feels like uh either (00:44:24) familiarity and fitting in with a tribe (00:44:28) comfortable comfortable I think of (00:44:30) comfortable as I'm warm I'm safe I'm (00:44:33) relaxed and both may be equally true and (00:44:37) emotionally emotionally secure let's use (00:44:39) that as an easy moniker for comfortable (00:44:42) right so uh you could put something (00:44:44) amazing in front of somebody can can I (00:44:46) tell you a story about the the Trump (00:44:48) election one so I'm Canadian uh and my (00:44:51) Canadian passport I'm like Golem with (00:44:53) the precious like hold on to that thing (00:44:55) as the US goes into all sorts of Chaos (00:44:57) about 3 months after Trump is elected in (00:45:00) 2016 I was in a in an Uber going to a (00:45:03) conference and the health the driver is (00:45:06) looking very unhealthy and I said are (00:45:07) you okay uh how much do you drive he (00:45:11) goes oh I drive 18 hours a day I said 18 (00:45:13) hours a day um uh hopefully you're not (00:45:17) at the end of your shift because that's (00:45:19) not great for me as a passenger then he (00:45:21) tells you this amazing story he was the (00:45:22) CEO of a 300 person construction firm (00:45:26) and uh they voted as a company should (00:45:28) they get rid of corporate Healthcare or (00:45:29) not and they vote as a he lobbies for it (00:45:31) because less admin for the company bit (00:45:33) more expensive for the people but more (00:45:35) choice so he votes lobbies and they get (00:45:37) rid of they vote and they get rid of (00:45:38) corporate Healthcare three weeks later (00:45:40) he's not feeling well goes to the doctor (00:45:41) and finds out he's got multiple stage (00:45:43) three cancers riddling his body and now (00:45:46) he's got a major problem because they (00:45:48) got rid of the healthcare he can't get (00:45:49) covered because of the pre-existing (00:45:51) conditions problem so one of those Pops (00:45:54) at stage four and he's a dead man so he (00:45:56) literally starts planning his funeral (00:45:57) ener G gives away the company plans his (00:46:00) end times like like really right there (00:46:04) I'm like that's incredible but you said (00:46:05) that happened a few years ago you're (00:46:06) here now what happened he goes Obamacare (00:46:08) passed I'm like okay he goes then I (00:46:10) could get the insurance I got the (00:46:12) treatment I saved my life I'm like wow (00:46:15) what a journey to go through you think (00:46:17) you're going to die and then this thing (00:46:18) happens and it saves your life we pull (00:46:21) into the hotel I'm getting out of the (00:46:22) car and kind of as joke I said I guess (00:46:24) in this last election you must have (00:46:25) voted for Hillary Clinton and he goes no (00:46:29) I voted for Trump and I I was Gob (00:46:32) smacked and I said but but you just said (00:46:34) Obamacare saved your life he goes yeah (00:46:36) it did completely 100% Obamacare they my (00:46:38) left I said but then you voted for the (00:46:40) guy that said he was going to get rid of (00:46:42) it on his first day he goes yeah and (00:46:44) he's getting rid of it and now I'm back (00:46:46) to planning my funeral I've never been (00:46:49) able to square that Circle you didn't (00:46:50) ask him the followup question I was so (00:46:53) if you could go back and do it again (00:46:54) what would you do what was what would be (00:46:56) the followup question you would ask I I (00:46:58) would have asked um did you know that (00:47:01) was going to be the outcome and if so (00:47:03) did you there's it that leads me to (00:47:06) believe you have a base assumption that (00:47:07) something trumps your own personal (00:47:10) safety I I I I've never I've never I've (00:47:13) I've I've sat with that like anecdote (00:47:15) for years now I've never been able to (00:47:17) figure that out where people will (00:47:18) literally vote against their (00:47:19) self-interest I don't think anyone votes (00:47:21) against their self-interest I think (00:47:23) there are things that they care about (00:47:24) that they may not be aware of yet so he (00:47:27) may have a philosophical underpinning (00:47:29) that he's not even aware of a value (00:47:31) system that drives him forward cuz he (00:47:33) the very thing and look I don't know (00:47:35) this guy who knows but just hearing what (00:47:36) I've heard that what I would say drives (00:47:40) him is freedom over everything so hey we (00:47:42) have a healthcare plan but I can make it (00:47:43) better by giving people choice oh (00:47:45) that bit me in the ass but my value (00:47:47) system is still there Trump in his mind (00:47:50) stands for more freedoms and so I'm (00:47:53) going to vote for more freedoms even (00:47:54) though it brings me now obviously I'd (00:47:56) want to p push him and like really (00:47:58) understand if that's what he's saying (00:47:59) but I find most people are driven by a (00:48:01) value system that they don't understand (00:48:03) but they are driven by it every choice (00:48:05) they make yeah is an echo of a value (00:48:07) system they don't understand can I say (00:48:09) something out of a little bit of anger (00:48:11) at all times I've lived in eight (00:48:12) countries around the world for more than (00:48:14) a year each so I've seen a lot of (00:48:15) different systems Healthcare governance (00:48:17) Etc Canada Europe India you name it um (00:48:21) this whole Vector of Freedom drives me (00:48:24) crazy because it's a complete (00:48:27) it's complete horseshit I feel less free (00:48:30) in the US than most other countries in (00:48:32) the world why are you here oh great (00:48:34) place to do (00:48:36) business fascinating it's a great place (00:48:38) to but I feel I'll give you I'll give (00:48:40) you because here in the US the reason (00:48:42) the US is successful is there's a latent (00:48:45) entrepreneurship that is unbelievably (00:48:47) powerful and it optimizes in Silicon (00:48:50) Valley where if you build a business and (00:48:52) you fail we call it experience anywhere (00:48:55) else in the bu in the world you build a (00:48:57) business and a fails you're a bad guy (00:48:59) right and this is true around the world (00:49:01) um so we have one Freedom the freedom to (00:49:03) fail freedom to fail is a huge one and (00:49:05) it's institutionalized in bankruptcy (00:49:07) laws it's it's you can fairly elegantly (00:49:10) shut down a company here compared to (00:49:12) other places I built a subsidiary for (00:49:14) one of my businesses to do software (00:49:15) development in India and the mothership (00:49:18) failed and it orphaned the subsidiary (00:49:21) right um it took me seven years to shut (00:49:24) down that subsidiary in India Jesus (00:49:26) because all the political the the (00:49:28) regulatory blah blah blah crap just the (00:49:31) thing am I likely to ever do another (00:49:33) business in India again never because (00:49:36) who wants to go through that hell right (00:49:37) whereas in the US if something fails so (00:49:40) we just merged by the way open EXO into (00:49:42) a public company couple of weeks ago (00:49:44) okay called genius group yeah so we're (00:49:46) super thrilled because it's a global (00:49:47) platform for teaching entrepreneurship (00:49:49) and that's the constituency that we're (00:49:51) most excited about so we're very excited (00:49:53) about the the future there um The (00:49:58) Unbelievable uh potential of in Delaware (00:50:03) when you are doing a merger or whatever (00:50:06) there's this incredible legal framework (00:50:07) called a reparations act or something (00:50:10) whereas if you haven't done your (00:50:11) corporate paperwork that you fogot about (00:50:12) they give you one chance to kind of fix (00:50:14) it all and come clean before you do a (00:50:16) major transaction it's fantastic right (00:50:20) never is that happening anywhere else in (00:50:21) the world uh because if you U do (00:50:24) something in Paris and under French law (00:50:26) and whatever later I'll tell another (00:50:29) quick story I had a French girlfriend (00:50:30) when I was living in Paris for a few (00:50:31) years and she was trying to get her (00:50:33) identity card because the French (00:50:34) government said everybody has to get an (00:50:35) identity so she goes to the government (00:50:37) says here's my identity I want to apply (00:50:39) and they're like looking all the (00:50:40) paperwork and they go problem she's like (00:50:43) what's wrong she says well you were born (00:50:44) in France you have a French passport (00:50:47) your father was born in France but your (00:50:50) mother was not born in France that's a (00:50:52) problem and she's like but my mother was (00:50:54) a French Citizen and the reason she (00:50:56) wasn't born in France was her her (00:50:57) parents were the commanding forces for (00:50:59) the French forces in Vietnam she was a (00:51:00) military kid so she got born in Vietnam (00:51:03) but she's a French citizen her parent (00:51:05) and they're like problem so she's like (00:51:07) okay what do I do so they we need (00:51:09) affidavits from all four of your (00:51:11) grandparents saying that was actually (00:51:12) our daughter d d d da so she goes (00:51:15) through all of this hell to get that and (00:51:17) she shows it to them and they then puts (00:51:19) it all together and they go problem (00:51:21) she's like what is it now they said your (00:51:23) birth certificate has (00:51:24) expired because in Fr it turns out a (00:51:28) birth certificate only is valid for 3 (00:51:30) months and then when you want one for (00:51:32) some reason you have to apply to get a (00:51:34) birth certificate so this is the (00:51:35) bureaucracy that most of the world deals (00:51:37) with that the US has cleaned up a lot of (00:51:40) Canada is even better by the way because (00:51:41) it's a newer country okay so uh that (00:51:45) lack that less bureaucracy makes it easy (00:51:47) to build a business and do interesting (00:51:49) new things and that's why I live here I (00:51:52) think by the way I'm going to say it (00:51:53) also for the record I think the US (00:51:55) Constitution is the most important (00:51:57) document ever written but doesn't have (00:52:01) anything to do with freedom we'll get to (00:52:03) that in a minute yeah in what country (00:52:04) did you feel the most free most European (00:52:07) countries at an individual level I felt (00:52:08) very free businesses nightmare because (00:52:11) the Regulatory and cros and bureaucracy (00:52:13) nightmare but I can drive without ever (00:52:15) getting a speeding ticket in Europe (00:52:18) cannot drive here without getting a (00:52:19) speeding ticket is that the parameter (00:52:20) for freedom I don't know I'm just (00:52:23) telling you paint paint a picture for me (00:52:25) okay let let me give you another example (00:52:27) if I'm anywhere in the world I never (00:52:29) ever see a police (00:52:30) car whereas here in the US I just see (00:52:33) police cars all the time every day (00:52:35) people get arrested in the UK a place (00:52:37) where both of us have lived y people get (00:52:40) arrested in the UK for a tweet oh that (00:52:43) someone me separate issues different set (00:52:45) of I'm trying to pin you down on freedom (00:52:46) because I really want to understand this (00:52:48) yeah so uh look in India if I railed (00:52:51) against the government I would be in big (00:52:53) trouble right now so so freedom of (00:52:55) expression is is a big problem around (00:52:57) the world and I think freedom of (00:52:59) expression is more powerful here I do (00:53:02) there's definitely Freedom here for (00:53:03) freedom of expression more than anywhere (00:53:05) else in the world okay but this whole (00:53:07) Vector of the being more like the if you (00:53:10) vote Republican because you want more (00:53:12) freedom rather than less is I think (00:53:15) just my personal view having (00:53:17) lived um well so that to me I interpret (00:53:20) very differently so that just sounds (00:53:22) like I don't think Republicans are the (00:53:23) party of Freedom okay yeah but you said (00:53:27) that you don't feel as free in America (00:53:29) as you did in European countries I feel (00:53:31) yeah when I it's it's and there's good (00:53:35) and bad to this so I'll give you an (00:53:36) example on both sides okay so I came (00:53:40) into the US once and my name is selus (00:53:42) smell I look a little dodgy right um and (00:53:44) they go sir we have a problem uh your (00:53:46) name matches the name of an Afghan (00:53:48) warlord wanted in cbble for poppy (00:53:51) trading and he's wanted by the FBI who's (00:53:53) super likely to use his real name and (00:53:54) I'm like okay he goes it's you're a vice (00:53:57) president of Yahoo you're clearly not a (00:53:59) an Afghan warlord um I've got good news (00:54:01) and bad news and I'm like what's the (00:54:03) good news so the good news is I'm pretty (00:54:05) clear you're speaking at conferences (00:54:07) we've looked you up you're not an Afghan (00:54:08) world I said that's great what's the (00:54:10) problem what's the bad news he goes I'm (00:54:12) not allowed to make that decision I have (00:54:13) to check with was it's like your (00:54:14) coinbase thing I have to check with (00:54:16) Washington it'll take about four hours (00:54:18) you're going to miss your flight have a (00:54:19) seat I'll say you're kidding and (00:54:22) literally I got to the I was coming (00:54:24) across the border enough times that I (00:54:26) got to the point where the Border guys (00:54:27) were like hey Mr ismile how are you (00:54:29) please come aside for the security check (00:54:31) because we have to check with Washington (00:54:33) again that's the bad side right because (00:54:35) you can get stopped for all sorts of (00:54:37) bizarre things I've never seen that (00:54:38) anywhere else in the world okay here's (00:54:40) I'll give you the good side um I had a (00:54:43) very surreal incident in at 911 where (00:54:47) one of my family members who psychic (00:54:48) calls me up in the last two weeks of (00:54:51) August and says what are you doing the (00:54:52) first weeks of September uh 2001 I said (00:54:55) well I'm working I'm doing stuff and she (00:54:57) Saidi want you to leave I want you out (00:54:58) of New York City and I'd kind of learned (00:55:01) enough to kind of pay attention to this (00:55:02) that I took a vacation and I was in (00:55:04) Switzerland um and 911 happens and I (00:55:08) found out later looked up later i' (00:55:10) canceled a meeting in the World Trade (00:55:11) towers that Tuesday morning to go on (00:55:13) this trip um and just by accident I (00:55:17) wasn't there so now I have to get back (00:55:19) because the company I'm the co of is in (00:55:21) big trouble and I'm on the first plane (00:55:24) that lands into (00:55:25) jeffk uh after 911 the first flight the (00:55:29) first plane that landed lands back in (00:55:30) New York City um and you know selous (00:55:34) smell I look a bit Middle Eastern my (00:55:36) Canadian my US Visa for Canadian visa to (00:55:39) the US was expiring the next (00:55:41) day so I'm in deep trouble and I got to (00:55:45) the border of guards and they could not (00:55:47) have been more constructive and helpful (00:55:49) and um sensible and common sense in that (00:55:53) environment that I would ever have seen (00:55:55) anywhere else in the world unbelievable (00:55:58) so at at a very deep political level (00:56:01) there's lots of unbelievable freedoms (00:56:02) which is why I think this country is (00:56:04) very powerful however dayto day I feel (00:56:06) less (00:56:07) free H okay so here would be my take on (00:56:12) that let me know what you think um it (00:56:14) sounds like you have had run-ins that (00:56:19) sound more racist to me then they sound (00:56:22) anti- freedom but I get how if (00:56:25) somebody's stopping you every time you (00:56:27) around uh because of your name because (00:56:30) of your nationality whatever uh that (00:56:33) would leave a horrific taste in my mouth (00:56:36) now (00:56:38) Canada throws people's bank accounts (00:56:41) because they donated money to a uh (00:56:45) Rebellion a protest I don't even know (00:56:47) what to call it the trucker Convoy uh (00:56:50) that was Ultra terrifying they have (00:56:52) bills that compel speech so not just you (00:56:56) can't say this you must say this yes (00:56:59) that's insane from a freedom perspective (00:57:02) if people vote for it they should get (00:57:04) what they want but that certainly does (00:57:06) not feel free uh so AG when I think (00:57:10) about what freedoms matter for me what (00:57:13) you're calling freedom of expression (00:57:15) what I will call free speech is is quite (00:57:18) literally the ability to think and any (00:57:21) country and that would be every country (00:57:22) but America as far as I know does not (00:57:24) have freedom of speech at which point (00:57:27) they are 1984 style compelling the (00:57:31) breakdown of your own ability to think (00:57:34) properly yeah and then you stifle (00:57:36) Innovation you look at China as the (00:57:38) extreme where they're shutting down the (00:57:39) CEOs of the tech sector right they're (00:57:41) going to just kill Innovation completely (00:57:43) shutting down they they are literally (00:57:45) absconding with them taking them (00:57:47) somewhere doing something that makes (00:57:48) their expressions very different they (00:57:51) come out and you don't you know this is (00:57:54) an important point and I I will totally (00:57:56) you on this one okay um the ability to (00:58:00) Buck against the status quo is bigger (00:58:03) here than anywhere else in the world and (00:58:05) therefore you get disruptive innovation (00:58:08) and that fundamental Innovation is what (00:58:10) steers the US forward in a very powerful (00:58:12) way this is the whole root of American (00:58:14) exceptionalism is you see a problem you (00:58:16) fix it and I think that's a magical (00:58:19) magical thing and I think that's why I (00:58:21) said go back to my point of I choose to (00:58:23) I could live anywhere in the world I (00:58:24) choose to live here it's a really (00:58:26) amazing place however there's lots of (00:58:28) like I was in a an Uber going from San (00:58:31) Francisco to Marin once and the driver (00:58:34) was African-American and we pull into (00:58:36) Marin and there's a police check at the (00:58:39) side of the road and he literally starts (00:58:41) freaking out like he's shaking he's (00:58:44) completely completely spazzed out I'm (00:58:47) like dude what's wrong he goes you have (00:58:48) no idea what I go through when police (00:58:51) see me behind the wheel and I was like (00:58:54) Wow and it's just something I'm you know (00:58:56) just sits with me uh I don't I don't (00:58:59) have that problem yeah you unfortunately (00:59:00) to me I'm glad you don't have that (00:59:02) problem but you're what you were saying (00:59:04) about uh immigration giving you a hard (00:59:07) time you're not the first person to talk (00:59:08) about that where I thought you were (00:59:09) going with 911 was since then like (00:59:11) things have really just uh gone downhill (00:59:14) that I've heard that from many people (00:59:16) that have downhill in what sense of the (00:59:19) you mean IM experience feeling wanted is (00:59:22) probably how I would have framed it you (00:59:24) framed it as Freedom which makes me (00:59:25) think maybe I'm not mapping your mind (00:59:27) quite correctly um so anyway that that (00:59:30) part I certainly understand and has (00:59:32) always rubbed me the wrong way yeah uh I (00:59:35) tweeted something out (00:59:36) today around something that America does (00:59:39) this was actually Canadian though uh I (00:59:42) become unhinged when Banks act like my (00:59:44) money is their money I'm with you bro (00:59:47) and and by the way Canadians shutting (00:59:49) down the bank accounts was a very bad (00:59:51) black stain and I don't think they're (00:59:53) going to get out from under that for a (00:59:55) long timeous right because if I've got a (00:59:57) lot of money am I going to go to the (00:59:59) Canada and trust my money there I I need (01:00:01) to be able to get to my money and this I (01:00:03) think is an important part of maybe the (01:00:05) most powerful aspect of web 3 why we're (01:00:08) so excited about it is that you can have (01:00:10) full custodial of your money and your (01:00:13) value and nobody can take it away from (01:00:15) you I think that's a really powerful (01:00:17) place okay tell me how I'm wrong the (01:00:19) government can and will take your web 3 (01:00:22) Holdings people always talk about the (01:00:24) wrench attack I can imagine no bigger (01:00:27) wrench than the US government they will (01:00:29) kneecap you they will imprison you they (01:00:31) will do whatever they have to I don't (01:00:34) understand people who think crypto makes (01:00:37) you immune from the government it the (01:00:39) following thing is true you can abscond (01:00:42) at night get on a boat and go to a (01:00:45) country let's say Estonia that does not (01:00:47) have negative stance on crypto and (01:00:50) because you can memorize your seed (01:00:51) phrase you can escape with your money (01:00:54) much easier so if I'm a German (01:00:57) uh sorry if I'm a Jew in Germany and (01:00:59) it's like (01:01:01) 1939 hey I'm very grateful for (01:01:05) cryptocurrency because now I can just (01:01:07) bail and I can take my wealth with me so (01:01:09) do not get me wrong I love crypto the (01:01:10) most It's amazing I have so much (01:01:14) invested in crypto I'm a Believer but (01:01:16) when people act like governments can't (01:01:18) come in and take that from you that's (01:01:19) crazy town you can escape easier but the (01:01:23) vast majority of people should the (01:01:26) government government ever decide to (01:01:27) they will seize the out of it give (01:01:31) me so if I if my seed phrase is sitting (01:01:34) in England and I don't know it and I (01:01:38) don't have my sticks with me or anything (01:01:39) like that what's the government going to (01:01:41) do put you in jail oh that's fine they (01:01:43) can take my freedom war well that's but (01:01:44) they will never get my Bitcoin man this (01:01:46) is like your your uh Wallace moment (01:01:48) where you're being tortured to death I (01:01:50) think I think you you take my life but (01:01:52) you take my crypto this is the same (01:01:54) argument I use against guns right people (01:01:56) go I need guns because I need to be able (01:01:58) to fight against a a government that (01:02:00) comes after me yeah and I'm like they (01:02:01) can just they have bigger guns they do (01:02:04) but were the you talked about the (01:02:06) Afghans I'm telling you a distributed (01:02:09) Nation with a reason to fight and their (01:02:11) own weapons and I have not thought a lot (01:02:13) about the Second Amendment I'll be the (01:02:14) first to tell you but I'm like hey when (01:02:17) I look at the the reason they said they (01:02:18) gave us the first the second amendment (01:02:20) I'm like yeah word it you need to be (01:02:23) able to protect yourself from the (01:02:25) tyranny of just Bureau (01:02:27) a I'm totally good with that can I just (01:02:29) give you my beef on the Second Amendment (01:02:31) because I've gone pretty deep on this um (01:02:33) I and and I appreciate um the US enough (01:02:36) that I've gone pretty deep on all the (01:02:38) different structures Etc the US the (01:02:40) Second Amendment says you shall not ban (01:02:43) the right to bear arms in a (01:02:44) well-regulated (01:02:46) militia not that every Podunk guy should (01:02:49) have a gun it should be in a (01:02:51) well-regulated militia you Congress (01:02:53) cannot pass a law that will stop a (01:02:55) well-regulated militia (01:02:57) from over if Congress oversteps that is (01:03:00) the Second Amendment which is good we (01:03:01) pull up hit hit us with the Second (01:03:02) Amendment I need to see that it's (01:03:04) bringing home that I've actually never (01:03:06) read actual people forget um people (01:03:10) there you go a well-regulated (01:03:11) militia shall not be infringed that's (01:03:14) the second amendment who it doesn't say (01:03:15) that it says a well-regulated militia (01:03:17) being necessary to the security of a (01:03:19) free state the right of the people to (01:03:22) keep and bear arms shall not be (01:03:24) infringed now I read that that is saying (01:03:27) hey the people may need to build up a (01:03:29) well-regulated militia therefore I'm not (01:03:32) going to stop people from having guns so (01:03:34) what I hear is guns come first militia (01:03:36) comes second so I could very easily say (01:03:39) people saying look I hope I don't need (01:03:41) to become a well regulated militia but I (01:03:43) need the guns now oh I see you frame it (01:03:45) that way okay I think that's how it's (01:03:47) actually framed this is where we need (01:03:49) Clarity right can we is that really that (01:03:51) can't be the whole thing no way yeah (01:03:53) that's the entire second amendment that (01:03:55) is it is a single sent it's a single (01:03:56) sentence is that really true we're (01:03:59) watching my ignorance unfold in real (01:04:01) time the the amendments are this short I (01:04:04) thought these were like whole documents (01:04:06) they get longer as go down the list (01:04:08) scroll let me see these are scandalously (01:04:10) short if you guys all knew this and (01:04:12) never twet about it uh wow I can't (01:04:15) believe I didn't know this okay yeah (01:04:17) these are a little bit longer so this is (01:04:18) an interpretation it's still really (01:04:19) short wow yeah these are verbatim this (01:04:22) is the whole thing yeah the comment (01:04:24) section is going to be bowning on me (01:04:27) it's unbelievably beautiful I'm going to (01:04:29) say it again the US Constitution Bill of (01:04:31) Rights the most beautiful documents ever (01:04:33) created in crazy in the world right I (01:04:37) always thought when people gave these (01:04:38) bits they were just quoting from a much (01:04:40) larger document no that it's (01:04:43) hilarious I can't wait to see the (01:04:44) Twitter comments as you say but so so (01:04:47) this is some interpretation thing (01:04:48) because there it's a clause it's not (01:04:50) saying anybody can have rights and by (01:04:51) the way that it says a well-regulated (01:04:54) militia by the people (01:04:57) um shall not be infringed so the people (01:04:59) can have arms in a well-regulated (01:05:01) militia you and I read this so (01:05:03) differently this is utterly fascinating (01:05:05) for everybody listening that is not (01:05:06) familiar with this I want to read this (01:05:07) one more time pay attention to the (01:05:09) sequencing of these words a (01:05:11) well-regulated militia being necessary (01:05:15) to the security of a free state meaning (01:05:18) you do not have a free state if you (01:05:19) cannot protect yourself presumably from (01:05:22) the tyranny of State exactly so so uh (01:05:27) the right of the people to keep and bear (01:05:28) arms shall not be infringed that's (01:05:30) really interesting that to me you and I (01:05:33) read something super so if you had a (01:05:35) period there the right of the people to (01:05:36) keep in bar arms shall not be infringed (01:05:38) that would be fine but it's not that (01:05:40) it's the well-regulated militia (01:05:43) comma yeah so for if you if I mean I (01:05:48) will say this feels like an admonition (01:05:50) that we should have well-regulated (01:05:52) militias standing which I don't love (01:05:55) that well that's that's okay that's (01:05:57) that's I'm I'm good with that but guns (01:05:59) should be operating inside a (01:06:01) well-regulated militia not everybody in (01:06:04) their grandmother and free conceal and (01:06:06) all that (01:06:07) stupidity I have now met a ton of the (01:06:10) world's most accomplished people and (01:06:11) while intelligence definitely matters (01:06:13) what sets them apart isn't their IQ it's (01:06:16) that they understand that there is a (01:06:17) system to success that exact system the (01:06:20) one I've seen countless successful (01:06:22) people deploy to tremendous effect is (01:06:24) exactly what my wife Lisa billu detailed (01:06:26) out in her best-selling book radical (01:06:28) confidence she details what successful (01:06:31) people know to their core radical (01:06:33) confidence covers everything you need to (01:06:35) know to efficiently move towards your (01:06:37) goals there's a reason that this book (01:06:40) has topped the Amazon charts in multiple (01:06:42) categories received countless five-star (01:06:44) reviews outsold New York Times (01:06:45) bestselling authors and helped countless (01:06:48) people get unstuck and create momentum (01:06:50) in their lives the 11 steps outlined in (01:06:53) radical confidence actually work but no (01:06:55) one can read the book for you or apply (01:06:57) the lessons so pick up your copy today (01:07:00) at radical confidence.com again that's (01:07:04) radical confidence.com get started on (01:07:06) your dream life right (01:07:09) now if you think about technology and (01:07:12) you're able to predict a traffic jam (01:07:14) it's like whoa that's pretty insightful (01:07:15) you may get the car wrong but you get (01:07:16) the idea of mass transit and people will (01:07:18) bump into each other and it will slow (01:07:19) things down anyway so here are the the (01:07:21) beautiful things that I think will uh AI (01:07:25) will bring and if if you could let me (01:07:27) know just yes or no life extension I (01:07:29) think we will live longer okay uh I (01:07:31) think while it probably might will take (01:07:33) a while that AI will discover new (01:07:36) physics yeah okay new physics I think (01:07:39) will have as big of an impact on our (01:07:41) lives as somebody please solve the (01:07:43) ground unification theory in the wave (01:07:45) particle duality of light I have a (01:07:47) Physics degree talk to your boy Eric (01:07:49) Weinstein he thinks he thinks he's got (01:07:51) it uh new governmental structures new (01:07:54) and better better okay yeah policy (01:07:56) making should be done with an (01:07:59) AI for example if you want to drop (01:08:01) inflation by 2% do you think it should (01:08:03) be done by AI or should it (01:08:05) be heavily Guided by it for example if (01:08:08) you say hey we want to drop inflation by (01:08:11) 2% a human being trying to make policy (01:08:13) looking at all the data has no hope in (01:08:15) making sense of anyone an AI could go oh (01:08:17) do these three things and the human (01:08:19) being can sense check it and go is that (01:08:21) reasonable or not and then off you go I (01:08:23) think we're going to end up with the (01:08:24) chess out come where the best chess (01:08:27) players are an AI and a human being and (01:08:29) that combination will be unbeatable (01:08:31) because there's still a sense of already (01:08:33) have the answer to that and that it's (01:08:35) just AI can a human add anything to the (01:08:38) greatest chest Common Sense are you sure (01:08:40) oh yeah can we look that at we need to (01:08:42) look that up I don't buy for a second (01:08:44) that a human can contribute anything to (01:08:46) a chess the best chess player a human (01:08:48) being and a chess AI will always beat an (01:08:50) AI Magnus Carlson when teamed with chess (01:08:54) AI beats chess a I by itself oh yeah (01:08:57) yeah this okay that's a noble thing (01:08:58) we're looking that up in the meantime uh (01:09:02) do you think that we will get free or (01:09:04) nearly free energy yes okay go deep on (01:09:07) that one what does nearly free energy (01:09:10) look like like why will that matter okay (01:09:12) let me go let me give you a graph that I (01:09:13) use in my presentations which is if you (01:09:15) went back 500 years ago the cost of (01:09:18) lighting up a building or a room was (01:09:19) unbelievably High whale blubber you had (01:09:22) to go kill whales and get the blubber (01:09:24) back and light up a candle Game of (01:09:25) Thrones technology then we found (01:09:27) paraffin and we could create candles (01:09:30) then we invented electricity and the (01:09:32) price of electricity so can I step back (01:09:35) one second this is there's two really (01:09:36) important things about technology that (01:09:38) are important here that people should (01:09:39) understand as we get into this number (01:09:41) one for the first time in human history (01:09:43) we have a dozen Technologies all (01:09:45) operating on an exponential doubling (01:09:47) pattern solar energy every 22 months (01:09:49) drones are doubling every 9 months in (01:09:51) their price performance Gene sequencing (01:09:53) every 6 months Etc the res solution at (01:09:56) which we can image the human brain is (01:09:57) doubling every year for example we've (01:10:00) never seen this many Technologies all (01:10:02) move at an accelerated Pace at the same (01:10:04) time so that's one the second thing that (01:10:06) I think is more profound that leads to (01:10:08) that um um PDI comment I made earlier or (01:10:12) um disruptive innov permissionless (01:10:14) disruptive innovation is that throughout (01:10:16) human history Advanced Technologies (01:10:19) always cost a lot and only a government (01:10:22) lab or a big corporate lab could do R&D (01:10:24) launch new products and services (01:10:26) today for the first time in human (01:10:27) history Advanced Technologies are cheap (01:10:30) AI is cheap uh sensors are cheap solar (01:10:33) energy cheap the blockchain is open (01:10:35) source anybody can now do disruptive (01:10:37) innovation so that if you couple that (01:10:39) with the idea that technology is a major (01:10:41) driver of progress in the world it might (01:10:43) be the only major driver of progress (01:10:45) we've ever seen in the world now you (01:10:47) have a dozen of them that cost very (01:10:48) little the there's going to be a camran (01:10:51) explosion of 20 Gutenberg moments all (01:10:53) coming down the pike so if we believe (01:10:55) the technology is an a force enabler for (01:10:58) good and and does delivers that then (01:11:00) we're in an unbelievable um um um (01:11:03) Heavenly space for the future of (01:11:05) innovation and all the things we're (01:11:06) going to come seeing out of it um how (01:11:09) quickly we Implement that is the Big (01:11:11) Challenge and that's the problem now (01:11:14) we've been fighting over oil for the (01:11:16) last 200 years big Wars Etc because that (01:11:19) was the cheapest form of energy we are (01:11:21) moving now to solar energy being the (01:11:23) cheapest form of energy and the Big (01:11:25) Challenge is what covers the base load (01:11:26) and I think small nuclear will do it uh (01:11:30) as well as thorium reactors which are (01:11:32) now safe nuclear reactors and over time (01:11:34) we'll find Sol Fusion but that's going (01:11:36) to be a while a ways away H uh so that (01:11:40) gives us free energy yeah free energy (01:11:42) means you can desalinate freely and that (01:11:45) means if you have clean water you take (01:11:47) out half of all the infectious diseases (01:11:49) in the world so the Ripple effects are (01:11:51) profound so energy in the next 5 to S (01:11:53) years will go to nearly free okay okay (01:11:56) so the desalinization is a great example (01:11:59) I'm going to say and it's possible I'm (01:12:01) I'm missing something huge here but I (01:12:03) don't think so if energy costs drop to (01:12:05) effectively zero the cost of everything (01:12:09) else will drop dramatically yes because (01:12:12) it takes energy to extract minerals from (01:12:16) the ground uh most of the things you (01:12:19) want in your life are about consuming (01:12:22) energy so uh when you're going to a (01:12:24) restaurant and buying food you're paying (01:12:26) so much of that is the energy cost for (01:12:28) transportation to get the meat from the (01:12:31) farm to the actual restaurant or the (01:12:34) cost of the energy to freeze the food (01:12:36) it's like the number of things that come (01:12:40) down to energy there's a guy named (01:12:41) Arthur Hayes I don't know if you know (01:12:42) who he is Arthur Hayes amazing guy I've (01:12:44) been on the show a couple times amazing (01:12:45) amazing and he said everybody should (01:12:46) think of their lives in terms of how (01:12:48) much energy how many kilowatts (01:12:50) essentially can you purchase with your (01:12:52) salary everything else is going to (01:12:53) fluctuate but that's the one that's (01:12:55) going to that metric yeah super (01:12:57) brilliant and so he doesn't look at how (01:12:58) much am I making he's only looking at (01:13:00) how much does that buy me he said it (01:13:02) reduces a lot of the illusion of oh my (01:13:05) wages are going up sure but if your (01:13:07) wages don't match the rise and the cost (01:13:09) of energy you could actually be making (01:13:11) more dollars technically but losing (01:13:14) purchasing power in energy which matters (01:13:16) more than people understand energy (01:13:19) touches every little corner of your life (01:13:21) the cost of your shampoo is tied the (01:13:23) cost of your water is tied just energy (01:13:25) energy everywhere energy the modern (01:13:27) world brought to you by oil so the best (01:13:31) metaphor I've seen for this whole (01:13:32) transition comes from Lawrence Bloom one (01:13:35) of my mentors he said to me you must (01:13:37) have paid a lot of money in another (01:13:39) dimension to be living this life and I (01:13:41) was like damn I think you're right so (01:13:43) this is his metaphor he he looks at at (01:13:45) Humanity as different stages of Rocket (01:13:48) lifting off Earth okay so when you first (01:13:50) have a rocket lifting off Earth you need (01:13:52) a really big fat booster rocket to get (01:13:55) your the enough energy to get you out of (01:13:57) the gravity well and so that's the (01:13:59) that's oil that's capitalism fossil fuel (01:14:01) capitalism has been an unbelievable (01:14:03) enabler to lift the world out of poverty (01:14:06) deliver all sorts of unbelievable (01:14:07) Innovation to us products and services (01:14:10) etc etc however when you have a rocket (01:14:12) and it's taking off at a certain (01:14:14) altitude you have to jettison that (01:14:17) booster rocket because that well if you (01:14:20) don't let it go it's going to pull you (01:14:21) back down if then you jettison it you (01:14:23) take on a much more lighter craft that (01:14:25) takes you to the next level so the (01:14:27) question is we are in that transition (01:14:29) point where we need to jettison fossil (01:14:31) fuel and jettison capitalism would I (01:14:34) would put it in another way and find (01:14:36) that lighter craft and what is that (01:14:37) lighter craft is now the interesting (01:14:40) question for me going forward but it's a (01:14:42) really important metaphor because it (01:14:44) doesn't um deny the benefits we've (01:14:46) gotten from cheap oil over the last few (01:14:48) hundred years absolutely delivering (01:14:49) unbelievable benefits into the world (01:14:51) yeah very well said okay so that is a (01:14:55) very much tip of the iceberg in terms of (01:14:58) all the amazing things that I think AI (01:15:00) will help us race to timelines we will (01:15:02) inevitably get wrong um I like to give (01:15:05) timelines though as a way of anchoring (01:15:08) people around my thinking as of today (01:15:10) with full knowledge that I know whatever (01:15:12) timeline I give is is going to be broken (01:15:14) sure um but I'll I'll walk you through a (01:15:17) very quick breakdown of the phases that (01:15:20) I see over the next 10 years um and let (01:15:23) me know what you think about this so uh (01:15:25) over the next three years it'll be (01:15:26) marked by things are getting easier so (01:15:28) cost of energy is going down you can do (01:15:30) more with less um some amount of your (01:15:33) work if you're a graphic designer will (01:15:35) be done by AI like some of the things (01:15:36) that adobe's doing is just unbelievable (01:15:39) and so that's going to be happening all (01:15:40) over in law in healthcare and just (01:15:43) things will get easier um existential (01:15:46) dread is going to set in for the young (01:15:48) because of what I call um the famous (01:15:50) quote from Gretzky don't skate to where (01:15:52) the puck is Skate to where the puck is (01:15:53) going to be that used to be tremendously (01:15:54) good advice (01:15:55) hey you're going to graduate in year (01:15:57) 2030 so don't don't think about what's (01:16:00) happening today think about 2030 but now (01:16:02) that puck is teleporting yeah so it's (01:16:05) very hard to predict where that's (01:16:06) actually going to be when you graduate I (01:16:07) think that's really going to cause a (01:16:10) high rate of anxiety and depression (01:16:12) among the young um I think what I call (01:16:15) the pure human movement is going to (01:16:17) start so there'll be this sense of like (01:16:20) oh we reject any brain computer (01:16:22) interface we reject anything where um AI (01:16:26) you're already seeing this in the art (01:16:27) movement so as much as I literally as (01:16:29) the words adobe's doing amazing things (01:16:31) is coming out of my mouth I know a (01:16:32) portion of my audience is going to (01:16:33) attack me because they are absolutely (01:16:36) livid at the way that adobe has trained (01:16:39) their things and they feel like they've (01:16:40) just been stolen from so the pure human (01:16:42) movement is going to begin so this this (01:16:44) creation brought to you by only humans (01:16:46) no AI touches whatsoever uh there's (01:16:48) going to be a softening of the job (01:16:49) market because I mean I'll just speak (01:16:51) for myself I have definitively hired (01:16:54) less people because we been deploying AI (01:16:56) as much as we can yes all right so (01:16:58) that's three years nothing insane you're (01:17:00) going to have like chat GPT moments (01:17:01) where it was like huge for a minute (01:17:03) seemed like it was going to (01:17:04) revolutionize everything but then you're (01:17:05) kind of like did it uh five years the (01:17:08) riots begin but they're going to be (01:17:10) minor uh it's going to be people like um (01:17:13) I the whmo car that got vandalized right (01:17:16) so whmo self-driving car there's no (01:17:18) driver in it's crazy when you see them (01:17:19) in real life uh one they smashed its (01:17:22) Windows lit it on fire maybe not because (01:17:24) it was self driving maybe not because of (01:17:26) what it represents or maybe precisely (01:17:29) because of what it represents I think (01:17:30) you're going to start seeing more of (01:17:31) that and that's already happening uh (01:17:33) deaths of Despair are going to go up (01:17:34) we're already seeing that in the US um (01:17:37) you have there's a breakdown of the (01:17:40) countries um listed in order of the (01:17:43) number of suicides per thousand yeah (01:17:45) it's bad it's it's pretty crazy that it (01:17:47) does not map to affluence yeah so you (01:17:49) have some really um poverty stricken (01:17:52) countries not doing well and you have (01:17:53) really affluent countries not doing well (01:17:55) so money is not going to solve the (01:17:57) problem so as AI unleashes everything is (01:17:59) getting cheaper it's not going to solve (01:18:00) the problem uh because of meaning and (01:18:03) purpose which we will certainly get more (01:18:04) into yes um I think the pure human (01:18:07) movements starts actually um breaking (01:18:11) machines so whether they're Whos whether (01:18:14) they're those little robots that W Yep (01:18:15) they're they're going to go after those (01:18:17) there's going to be a massive job (01:18:18) transition happening so you're going to (01:18:20) get a ton of graduates going into the (01:18:21) world like hey there's no jobs you're (01:18:23) going to see people shift into more for (01:18:26) um trades so being a plumber and things (01:18:28) that it's going to be harder at least (01:18:29) for now before robots hit uh regulation (01:18:33) is going to start to escalate so the (01:18:35) masses begin to panic they begin voting (01:18:37) people into power on this issue will you (01:18:40) stop or at least dramatically slow AI I (01:18:43) think that's going to really ramp up in (01:18:44) the 5-year time frame uh and then in the (01:18:47) seven-year time frame AI is going to be (01:18:49) better at most things than humans I (01:18:52) think we're going to see a horrifying (01:18:54) spike in either it will either uh in (01:18:57) fact it'll be both you'll see a (01:18:58) tremendous spike in deaths of Despair (01:18:59) because people AI will just be better (01:19:01) than you at everything and that will be (01:19:03) really damaging for the young who try to (01:19:05) look out and say well if I got really (01:19:06) good at this thing it will matter to (01:19:08) humanity and I think they'll come up (01:19:09) empty and unfortunately even though we (01:19:11) probably will give Ubi of some kind it's (01:19:13) just not going to solve the problem (01:19:15) because I think humans need meaningful (01:19:18) Pursuit and if they don't need to win at (01:19:20) a thing to win money I think they'll (01:19:22) actually have a problem and hey look at (01:19:24) the homelessness Cris (01:19:25) when you give people money and you don't (01:19:27) regulate them some portion not most (01:19:32) nowhere near but some people just go (01:19:35) cool I'm just going to do drugs all day (01:19:37) uh the prum thing is is going to riot at (01:19:39) scale uh you hit 10 years you get a real (01:19:42) bifurcation in humanity some break it's (01:19:45) just pure human and some are like I'm (01:19:47) all cyborg all the time uh which if (01:19:50) people don't know right now today as (01:19:52) we're recording this the first person to (01:19:54) get a neuralink brain computer interface (01:19:57) has already happened it's already (01:19:59) happened this guy beat his dad now (01:20:02) that's his dad but beat his dad at a (01:20:03) game of Mario Kart with his mind he did (01:20:06) not touch a controller he can't even (01:20:07) move his arms okay and he it is insane (01:20:10) when you see him play because they show (01:20:12) you this uh one of these is being played (01:20:14) by somebody using their arms and the (01:20:16) other is being played by somebody just (01:20:18) with their mind you can't tell the (01:20:20) difference it is (01:20:22) unbelievable so anyway you can aim the (01:20:24) shells oh God I was blew me away so (01:20:28) you're going to get 10 years from now (01:20:29) you're going to have people that were (01:20:31) quadriplegics that are now moving about (01:20:33) with an exoskeleton or maybe even able (01:20:35) to bypass the break and just literally (01:20:37) control their own limbs again it's going (01:20:40) to be pure Insanity uh you're now going (01:20:42) to be hitting where energy is just (01:20:44) ridiculously low uh healthc care is (01:20:47) going to be (01:20:48) unbelievable you're going to have magic (01:20:50) AI doctors but you're also going to have (01:20:52) sex bots you're going to have just an (01:20:55) absolute cratering of traditional Human (01:20:58) Relationships yes and this is where the (01:21:00) tralization will really be important (01:21:02) because otherwise people are just going (01:21:03) to stop having kids because you're (01:21:04) having sex with your sex bot who knows (01:21:07) you perfectly and can morph into (01:21:09) whatever you want that day oh God it's (01:21:11) going to get so weird all right what' I (01:21:13) get wrong oh um so I think I it's (01:21:17) entirely plausible as a scenario right (01:21:21) and as if you're a futurist you're (01:21:22) always looking at scenario plannings and (01:21:25) and as a vector that's completely (01:21:26) accurate I disagree with a couple of (01:21:28) things I think I disagree with the kids (01:21:31) will be upset about this I think the (01:21:34) kids in our framing the kids will be (01:21:37) upset about this but kids natively grow (01:21:39) up in the model the world that they're (01:21:42) in and they just take it as normal how (01:21:43) did we break them so much with social (01:21:45) media Ah that's a different problem (01:21:48) that's fixable and I think we'll be (01:21:50) fixing that pretty soon I think you you (01:21:52) get them off social media is the problem (01:21:55) it's too much of an addictive uh sugar (01:21:57) drug type model for what for the utility (01:22:01) that it's delivering and that's a (01:22:02) regulatory problem um the governments (01:22:04) have been incredibly laxed I think in in (01:22:07) navigating that I see the AIS being used (01:22:10) by the social media companies as proof (01:22:15) of what AI does in (01:22:17) practice that feels like an AI problem (01:22:19) to me yes Tik Tok will suck you into a (01:22:21) Vortex it's but you know my my (01:22:24) 12-year-old comes to me and he goes dad (01:22:27) um I haven't had a chance this week to (01:22:31) play fortnite because I've been this had (01:22:33) a basketball turn we here and we went (01:22:34) there he goes I feel a lot better my my (01:22:37) my friends are up playing I'm not going (01:22:39) to do it I'm going to try like he goes (01:22:41) how do you you know what do you want me (01:22:42) to do with this like it's so weird I (01:22:45) said you know what give it another day (01:22:46) without it and another day and just take (01:22:48) it one day at a time and see how you (01:22:50) feel and it's incredibly inspiring to (01:22:53) hear him reflect on it and do that now (01:22:57) not that everybody's doing that or can (01:22:59) or will or whatever but I think we'll (01:23:00) figure that out we've always had this (01:23:02) problem okay when we were growing up (01:23:05) this problem okay uh um the parentals (01:23:08) not uh understanding what their kids are (01:23:10) going through and trying to fix the kids (01:23:14) when I was growing up there was like (01:23:15) they were like get off the phone what (01:23:17) the hell are you doing you don't need to (01:23:18) be on the phone for hours with your (01:23:19) friends etc etc right um there's lots of (01:23:23) constructive ways in which you can use (01:23:26) technology and some of what's coming in (01:23:28) a very powerful way I'll give you an (01:23:29) example I have a friend who has four (01:23:31) kids uh four girls and and when he was (01:23:34) growing bringing them up he at an early (01:23:37) age from like five six seven years he (01:23:39) started watching reality TV shows with (01:23:41) them Survivor and all the weird ones I'm (01:23:44) like you watch those uh with your kids (01:23:47) he goes yeah I sit down with them (01:23:48) because when they go to the playground (01:23:49) they've got one instance of a bullying (01:23:51) or something or some when I sit with (01:23:53) them day after day and they watch this (01:23:55) they're getting a lesson on human nature (01:23:57) I sit with them so that we could talk (01:23:58) about what's going on we start (01:24:00) predicting and all those four girls have (01:24:02) become unbelievable leaders in their own (01:24:04) right over the over the years they're (01:24:06) now about 20 years old (01:24:08) each because he had the foresight to go (01:24:11) be with them and bring them along that (01:24:13) journey and they'll learn faster because (01:24:14) they'll assemble the knowledge faster (01:24:17) Douglas Adams who wrote hitchhiker's guy (01:24:18) to the Galaxy I think said this the best (01:24:21) he said anything in the world when (01:24:23) you're born that's normal (01:24:25) anything that's invented when you're (01:24:27) young that's a career and anything (01:24:29) invented after you're 35 years old is (01:24:31) just bad just bad for the world and I (01:24:34) think that's a great framing for what's (01:24:37) happening today we freak out about what (01:24:39) the younger kids because we don't (01:24:41) understand it and we don't know how (01:24:42) they're going to adapt to it and I think (01:24:44) we just have to trust them that they (01:24:45) will figure it out we figured it out you (01:24:48) know our parents were freaked out about (01:24:49) us going to movies and playing video (01:24:51) games and whatever and we figured it out (01:24:54) and I think the kids today we'll figure (01:24:55) it out again take me with my optimism (01:24:58) bias because I have a deep optimism bias (01:25:00) around some of this stuff I want people (01:25:02) to take me with my optimism bias as well (01:25:05) because I am entirely swung that way and (01:25:08) yet even with that bias I'm going to ask (01:25:11) the following question do you think (01:25:13) there is such a thing as a rate of (01:25:15) change so rapid that children cannot (01:25:18) adapt that children cannot adopt that's (01:25:20) a great question um (01:25:27) yes and that would be what we would call (01:25:29) The Singularity right so we are hitting (01:25:32) that right now in AI does your audience (01:25:34) know what the singularity is uh you (01:25:36) should give it to them and you should (01:25:38) also tell me what year you think we hit (01:25:41) that okay I don't believe in it by the (01:25:43) way so heard you talk on this so but (01:25:46) give it to us all the whole shebang so (01:25:48) verer V coing this phrase the (01:25:49) technological singularity and he (01:25:51) basically said the minute machine (01:25:53) intelligence overtakes human (01:25:54) intelligence then we take on a (01:25:56) technological evolutionary path not an (01:25:58) biological evolutionary path and what (01:26:00) the minute that happens we are complete (01:26:02) the world is completely different and (01:26:04) Ray popular Ray kwell popularized that (01:26:06) as the singularity and wrote this book (01:26:08) called The singularities near in (01:26:11) 1999 positing that in 2045 we would get (01:26:15) to that point where machine intelligence (01:26:17) overtakes human intelligence okay I (01:26:20) disagree with this for two levels okay (01:26:22) first and I've had lots of conversations (01:26:24) about with Ray on this uh the first is (01:26:27) that we don't know what intelligence (01:26:29) is um the IQ test measures two aspects (01:26:33) of intelligence the speed of thought (01:26:35) processing and the ability to match (01:26:36) Concepts across Frameworks but we have (01:26:39) many dimensions about a dozen other (01:26:41) facets of intelligence like linguistic (01:26:43) intelligence spatial intelligence um (01:26:46) emotional intelligence this concept of (01:26:48) spiritual awareness or the concept of (01:26:50) presence the Eastern concept of being (01:26:52) present none of that are reflected in an (01:26:54) IQ test and that whole sum of the parts (01:26:57) is what we call intelligence so my first (01:26:59) B issue with it is what the hell do you (01:27:01) mean by intelligence right and the (01:27:03) second issue I have is what do you mean (01:27:04) by overtaking because the minute I can (01:27:06) prescriptively describe a task an AI (01:27:09) robot is going to do much better than me (01:27:11) anyway and so let them do it and (01:27:15) therefore it frees me to be much more (01:27:16) creative and so on and I think what (01:27:18) we're doing is we're merging with (01:27:20) technology and this is where Ry and I (01:27:22) definitely do agree uh where you're (01:27:24) emerging with technology such that The (01:27:26) Human Experience is augmented and (01:27:28) Amplified the fact that I have a (01:27:30) SmartPhone I would I would argue makes (01:27:32) me more human than less human because my (01:27:35) memories in there freeing up lots of (01:27:36) neurons to do other work I can (01:27:38) communicate with my son for free around (01:27:40) the world which is unbelievable I can (01:27:42) project empathy around the world which (01:27:44) is incredible so I have I'm more human (01:27:46) with my device than without it and I (01:27:48) think that's a powerful commentary for (01:27:51) where intelligence goes most people (01:27:53) worry about AI is oh my God it'll come (01:27:55) take come on and take over the world and (01:27:57) will destroy us and if we're lucky we're (01:27:59) pets and if we're unlucky we're food (01:28:01) it's kind of like pretty much always (01:28:02) goes that way Skynet Terminator The (01:28:05) Matrix but we actually see is We're (01:28:07) augmenting The Human Experience with (01:28:08) technology at an amazing level um and I (01:28:11) think that's very very inspiring we're (01:28:13) more human now so let's let's look at (01:28:15) education for example over the last or (01:28:18) jobs over the last 200 years we (01:28:20) roboticized our employees said that's (01:28:23) your job function do that at one job (01:28:25) you're an audit accountant you do Audits (01:28:27) and you do it repetitively and we're (01:28:29) going to measure You by how quickly and (01:28:31) how effectively and how fast and and (01:28:33) mistake-free are your Audits and not (01:28:35) your bonuses based on that so we turn (01:28:37) people into robots people on me assembly (01:28:40) line stamping out widgets now with the (01:28:42) Advent of AI and Robotics and so on (01:28:45) people are becoming much more human (01:28:46) again the most valuable employees or (01:28:49) colleagues you have in any company are (01:28:51) the people that learn the fastest and (01:28:53) that's a magical thing to be now as AI (01:28:56) comes along the big challenge is and I (01:28:57) would argue that in the concept of what (01:29:00) you would call the singularity in AI (01:29:02) we've hit the singularity the pace of (01:29:04) change in AI is now so fast you can't (01:29:06) absorb it by the time you've you've made (01:29:08) an investment your your investment is (01:29:10) out of date and so this is a huge (01:29:12) structural challenge with this it's it's (01:29:15) I'll give you an analog in the in the (01:29:17) education world if you're doing a (01:29:19) master's degree in Neuroscience today by (01:29:21) the time you finish your master's degree (01:29:23) you're out of date because computational (01:29:25) Neuroscience is overtaking the field so (01:29:27) fast that it's it's making the old ways (01:29:30) irrelevant very quickly so our the (01:29:33) structural issue we have in education is (01:29:35) we can't update our educational (01:29:37) Frameworks quickly enough to deal with (01:29:39) all the new changes and AI I think is is (01:29:42) the epitome of that right now um and (01:29:45) this is where I made the comment Elon (01:29:46) tweeted this little video a couple of me (01:29:48) last weekend saying there's no mechanism (01:29:50) that we can see by which you can (01:29:51) regulate AI at all at all you'd have to (01:29:54) to regulate every line of code written (01:29:56) and I just don't see that happening (01:29:58) that's when you really have issues with (01:30:00) Freedom by 10 years from now you're now (01:30:03) in (01:30:04) 2034 uh Elon made a quip that in the (01:30:08) 2032 election it won't be a question of (01:30:11) what human will win it will be a (01:30:12) question of what AI now assuming that (01:30:15) he's kidding haaha but that he's (01:30:17) directionally indicating it um I think (01:30:21) that Rey is going to be right by 2029 (01:30:24) which is is well under my 10-year time (01:30:27) frame here uh you've got AI is just (01:30:30) smarter than any single human so that (01:30:32) means AI is going to be better than (01:30:34) every human at (01:30:36) anything then it becomes a question of (01:30:40) did before we get there did they start (01:30:42) having existential dread based on the (01:30:44) rate at which things are changing who's (01:30:46) they the kids yeah kids I I think this (01:30:48) impacts everybody but kids will be the (01:30:51) most paralyzed because they don't have (01:30:52) the World experience to know oh I can (01:30:55) navigate this way I deeply disagree with (01:30:58) this whole smarter than human beings (01:31:01) thing okay so we're again going back to (01:31:03) the definition of intelligence we don't (01:31:05) have a clear definition of intelligence (01:31:08) okay so because now you have said if (01:31:11) something can be defined I forget the (01:31:12) exact word you use but if it can if a (01:31:14) task can be defined by the minute I can (01:31:17) prescriptively describe a task yep and (01:31:20) AI name a thing that you think humans (01:31:22) will continue to be better than than AI (01:31:25) at in 10 years um empathy creativity (01:31:29) humor um there's lots of domain (01:31:31) spiritual (01:31:33) awareness the only one of those I'm (01:31:35) going to give you is humor maybe and (01:31:38) they probably get thrash oh they'll get (01:31:39) way better at jokes sure then what's (01:31:41) left what do you mean well but the the (01:31:43) but now you see what see look okay let (01:31:46) me let me describe what I'm we need to (01:31:47) get clear on what we're talking about (01:31:48) intelligence okay so we have this (01:31:51) concept of intelligence and we think (01:31:53) some things will be smarter than us but (01:31:55) in what way is it faster is it better is (01:31:59) it more complete that's one challenge (01:32:01) right cuz there's all these other facets (01:32:03) of intelligence that make us human (01:32:05) beings that are different common sense (01:32:06) for example Etc then you bleed into AGI (01:32:10) you have narrow AI which always is going (01:32:12) to be better than a human being because (01:32:13) it's anti-lock breaking systems credit (01:32:16) card fraud detection we use narrow AI to (01:32:18) run the world today if you took that out (01:32:19) the world would just grind to a halt (01:32:21) very quickly then we get to AGI which (01:32:24) artif IAL general intelligence the (01:32:26) ability to match Concepts across (01:32:27) Frameworks and that's what people talk (01:32:29) about I think when people talk about (01:32:31) intelligence today that AI once they (01:32:32) achieve AGI will be able to do tasks (01:32:35) better than human beings okay now (01:32:37) actually look at this as an optimistic (01:32:39) thing because there's a lot of human (01:32:41) white color drudgery that AIS will take (01:32:43) over okay I'll give you a small example (01:32:45) I'm a booking agent for clubm Resorts (01:32:49) and a family calls and they go we want (01:32:51) we have three families we want two (01:32:53) joining rooms and and the kids have to (01:32:54) be all on the same floor and and I I (01:32:57) have to go do a lot of crappy work to (01:32:59) figure out how I'm going to manage that (01:33:01) permutation and there's a ton of stupid (01:33:03) that goes into figuring that out a (01:33:05) t takes a ton of my time that's where I (01:33:07) think AI will shine a lot but it'll (01:33:09) allow me to then Focus my time on real (01:33:11) problem solving or areas where they're (01:33:14) less good and yes over time we won't (01:33:16) need that human a booking agent because (01:33:18) the AI will do a lot of it anyway okay (01:33:21) but that's been a steady Vector forever (01:33:23) the many you have a concrete truck it (01:33:26) replaces 100 concrete workers shoveling (01:33:29) concrete you you free them up to do more (01:33:32) high order things and and so on so the (01:33:35) question is what work will there be (01:33:37) there to do and I think this is the (01:33:39) really big question that we don't have a (01:33:41) CL that's where I think the the (01:33:43) interesting question is the rest of it I (01:33:46) think is is fear mongering to some (01:33:48) extent and by the way I see AGI just (01:33:52) like intelligence kind of we had the (01:33:53) Turing test that kept Shifting the (01:33:55) goalpost and then all of a sudden we (01:33:57) passed it a long time ago and we're like (01:33:58) oh not a big deal I think AGI will be (01:34:01) like that we we'll have AGI and (01:34:03) everybody go oh my God we have AGI and (01:34:05) then it'll become oh this is okay and (01:34:07) it'll be normal and I think AGI is (01:34:09) bleeding into what we would call (01:34:10) Consciousness and there again you have a (01:34:12) big definition problem and a test (01:34:15) problem we don't have a definition for (01:34:16) Consciousness we don't have a test for (01:34:18) Consciousness right a subset of (01:34:20) Consciousness is self-awareness and you (01:34:22) look like you're self-aware so I tribute (01:34:24) rute self-consciousness self-awareness (01:34:26) to you I feel like I'm I'm self-aware (01:34:28) but my wife disagrees so it's really (01:34:30) hard to even have the conversation (01:34:32) because we don't have a clear definition (01:34:33) of this and so and and when you bleed (01:34:36) into those areas where I think things (01:34:38) get really really (01:34:40) interesting um quick anecdote I remember (01:34:42) we had a robotics expert one of the NASA (01:34:45) astronauts was used to build robots when (01:34:47) we were doing Singularity and I asked (01:34:49) them a question I said look is there a (01:34:52) system in the world that has the inputs (01:34:55) and outputs and enough processing power (01:34:57) that it might generate self-a awareness (01:34:59) um and it might suddenly go oh I'm a (01:35:01) system right and and he's like huh let (01:35:03) me think about that so he goes off a (01:35:05) couple of days he comes back and he goes (01:35:06) I think I have an answer I'm like okay (01:35:09) he goes Traffic Systems I said really he (01:35:12) goes yeah he goes in my opinion I've (01:35:14) thought about this for a couple of days (01:35:15) Traffic Systems have enough inputs and (01:35:17) outputs and processing capability that (01:35:19) one day it might generate self-awareness (01:35:21) and might go oh I'm a traffic system (01:35:23) right and the question two questions (01:35:25) emerged at that point what would it do (01:35:28) and how would we (01:35:29) know and the problem is we wouldn't know (01:35:31) so I think when we hit AGI we won't know (01:35:35) when an AI hits that point we won't know (01:35:37) when an AI hits Consciousness because we (01:35:39) would have a test a test for (01:35:41) it and as like and and just to Su help (01:35:44) this whole thing like R kwell put it (01:35:47) most brilliantly he was asked once about (01:35:48) Consciousness and he goes language is a (01:35:50) really thin pipe to discuss Concepts as (01:35:53) complex as that (01:35:55) Ray is brilliant I love Ray the most he (01:35:58) was the very first audio book I ever (01:36:00) read so I will forever have uh a Deb of (01:36:03) gratitude I've interviewed him I've Had (01:36:05) The Good Fortune of dining with him but (01:36:07) that is a cheap excuse not to think (01:36:09) about a very hard problem it it is it is (01:36:12) uh but it's a valid observation we (01:36:14) struggle a great deal with language so I (01:36:16) think what ends up you have to really (01:36:18) you have to really think back when you (01:36:19) talk all about all this stuff (01:36:21) intelligence cautious you have to go (01:36:23) back to what is a human being and this (01:36:25) is where I become really fascinated I've (01:36:27) been fascinated for a long time in (01:36:28) metaphysics and I've been fascinated by (01:36:30) what is The Human Condition and I have (01:36:32) actually a diagram that that that I (01:36:34) think summarizes this Nic I want to wrap (01:36:37) this point first that is 100% an area (01:36:40) that we will touch on before we go so I (01:36:41) have really unique insights there um but (01:36:44) first I want to say I think (01:36:45) Consciousness is a red herring okay and (01:36:48) I want to reorient people what we're (01:36:49) talking about is are are we all going to (01:36:53) struggle as AI gets better than us at (01:36:55) everything I think kids will be the (01:36:57) canary and the coal mine you think kids (01:36:59) will be the far more resilient your (01:37:02) argumentation and please if I say this (01:37:04) in a way that you don't recognize or (01:37:05) think is uncharitable let me know um but (01:37:08) that we don't even understand what (01:37:10) intelligence is these systems might (01:37:12) become conscious but we'll never know (01:37:14) because there's no way for us to engage (01:37:16) with that kids are going to get it (01:37:17) they're going to use AI in the way that (01:37:19) they use it they'll step away from it (01:37:21) when like you're son with fortnite when (01:37:23) it stops being useful in his life he's (01:37:25) going to step back people need to (01:37:27) understand my base assumption that I (01:37:29) think the brain developed so that humans (01:37:32) could move why did humans need to move (01:37:34) so they could take control of their (01:37:35) environment why did they need to take (01:37:37) control of their environment so they (01:37:38) could survive yes so then the game from (01:37:40) an uh evolutionary algorithm standpoint (01:37:43) becomes to keep this thing alive long (01:37:45) enough to have kids it have kids and the (01:37:47) the granddaddy of all the algorithms (01:37:50) that it planted in our brains is the (01:37:52) desire for Meaningful Pursuit both of (01:37:55) those words are important meaningful (01:37:57) means I can draw a straight line between (01:37:59) going out and killing this thing and the (01:38:01) survival of the people that I love so yo (01:38:04) like this really mattered it was a whole (01:38:06) thing and so when we do it we're (01:38:07) celebrating and we feel all the (01:38:09) neurochemistry that we want to feel this (01:38:11) is awesome that is Meaningful Pursuit (01:38:13) this is why when you have a job that (01:38:14) feels like a dead end and it's not going (01:38:16) anywhere and all it does is let you pay (01:38:17) your rent it's not interesting now once (01:38:21) AI becomes it crosses the unan Valley (01:38:24) and it's no longer like Chad gbt giving (01:38:27) you the lamest dad jokes ever and it is (01:38:30) Blade Runner and I without (01:38:32) doing a special test where I put a thing (01:38:33) up against your iris I can't tell if (01:38:35) you're real or not and in fact you don't (01:38:37) even know if you're real or not now (01:38:39) again Consciousness is a red herring (01:38:41) okay who cares it is just like hanging (01:38:44) out with your friend except for one (01:38:46) really brutal fact they're better than (01:38:48) you at everything possible and so now (01:38:53) it's like well this really sucks because (01:38:55) meaningful Pursuit would be that I need (01:38:59) to go do a thing to help me and mine but (01:39:02) energy costs have dropped to zero (01:39:04) because these things are so damn good at (01:39:06) everything that now why would I go do (01:39:08) that because we can just get an AI to do (01:39:10) it way better than me yes that kid when (01:39:13) he's or adult when they're interfacing (01:39:16) with an entity that is better than them (01:39:18) at everything they're going to be like (01:39:21) huh how do I have meaningful meaningful (01:39:24) Pursuit and the answer will be you get (01:39:26) meaningful pursuit in the next life and (01:39:29) I just need you to do these things and (01:39:31) you're going to have meaning today even (01:39:33) though we don't need you to go capture (01:39:34) an animal cuz all that's taken care of (01:39:36) but I'm going to give you this path to (01:39:37) meaning through this ancient book (01:39:39) through this tribe and all of that and (01:39:42) bro it's going to get weird and I lay (01:39:45) all these pieces out on the table for (01:39:47) one reason and one reason only because (01:39:48) again I'm wearing a shirt that is neon (01:39:50) future because I believe technology is (01:39:52) going to make our lives better but one (01:39:55) of the earliest things we talked about (01:39:56) is those spikes on a graph that is human (01:39:59) nature that is an idea set moving (01:40:03) through the medium of the human mind and (01:40:05) the way humans act as a collective and (01:40:07) if we plant wise ideas now if we warn (01:40:10) people about this stuff if we talk about (01:40:12) hey here's how you Branch to Mad Max (01:40:14) here's how you Branch to Utopia let's (01:40:16) make sure that we're all hyper aware of (01:40:18) how the human mind breaks bad and how it (01:40:20) can break good then there's one last (01:40:22) thing that I have to say because I find (01:40:24) very smart people like yourself are not (01:40:25) facing a very ugly truth and that very (01:40:29) ugly truth is this is this is a (01:40:31) paraphrase but it's going to get really (01:40:32) damn (01:40:33) close uh you said that people will be (01:40:36) able to step into a higher order of (01:40:40) existence engagement with the world as (01:40:43) all the sort of menial stuff is taken (01:40:45) away now the reason that feels true to (01:40:47) you is you are very smart the bad news (01:40:50) is that human intellect is on a gigantic (01:40:54) scale and Einstein who's only like a 165 (01:40:57) IQ and I say only on purpose because the (01:40:59) smartest person living I think is a 220 (01:41:01) so uh and I mean that literally in (01:41:04) the the actual Webster dictionary (01:41:06) definition is like somebody with an 83 (01:41:08) IQ I think so the difference between (01:41:11) that person and Einstein if I remember (01:41:13) right it's like 2.6 or something like (01:41:15) that uh in terms of the difference in IQ (01:41:18) and it's almost that again between (01:41:20) Einstein and the smartest person okay an (01:41:23) AI by according to Ray kerswell is going (01:41:26) to be a million times smarter than you (01:41:28) so it's like bro if the difference (01:41:30) between Einstein and a is 2.6 and (01:41:32) we're talking about something that is a (01:41:34) million times smarter than you I will (01:41:37) hypothesize that we have officially hit (01:41:40) the point at which the rate of change (01:41:41) will be so rapid that you you can't (01:41:45) absorb it and so now your only answer is (01:41:48) and again you need only look at Elon (01:41:49) Musk who's doing all of this stuff in (01:41:51) plain view you have to merge with (01:41:52) technology yeah to keep up to have (01:41:55) meaningful for Meaningful Pursuit you (01:41:57) have to be able to keep up with them (01:41:59) from just a raw horsepower perspective (01:42:01) but again Society will break along those (01:42:03) lines people that will and people that (01:42:05) won't and if that does not strike people (01:42:07) as to quote you from the beginning the (01:42:10) most dramatic seismic shift in human (01:42:15) existence ever then I I I I'm at a loss (01:42:19) to help them understand change wonderful (01:42:22) articulation I think that was a really (01:42:24) great and very tight concise (01:42:27) articulation of a future and there's (01:42:30) absolutely valid points that you make (01:42:32) all the way up and down I have a couple (01:42:34) of Point issues one is um when you say (01:42:36) kids will be despairing because they (01:42:40) won't be able to do things as good as an (01:42:42) AI I disagree with that because I don't (01:42:44) think they'll dispair they'll go oh that (01:42:46) thing's better I'll do this I'll I'll go (01:42:47) do something else or I'll figure (01:42:49) something else out so that's I don't (01:42:51) think they'll go to despair they will (01:42:53) innovate their way out of the problem (01:42:54) innovate all they just adapt kids are (01:42:56) adaptive they just figure it out and (01:42:58) they just adapt explain to me how (01:43:00) they've adapted to social media well (01:43:03) badly because it's it's it's sucked up (01:43:05) their minds but that's true why they (01:43:07) adapt poorly to social media but (01:43:09) wonderfully to this really brutally (01:43:12) intelligent AI yeah so now that becomes (01:43:15) how do you guide them and how do you (01:43:16) manage them and how do you parent them (01:43:18) Etc and many cases are doing a very bad (01:43:20) job because they're leaving them to the (01:43:22) social media and that's just (01:43:23) up their brains okay um however (01:43:25) there's some really interesting vectors (01:43:27) coming out of that there's a woman out (01:43:28) of Chicago called Nicole dry who looked (01:43:31) at this device Den addiction problem and (01:43:34) social media addiction problem he said (01:43:36) you know the problem is not the fact not (01:43:38) we're looking at the wrong problem here (01:43:41) the problem is their high order thinking (01:43:43) is not triggered they're passively (01:43:45) consuming they're just viewing a screen (01:43:47) and they're not really they so how do we (01:43:49) trigger that if we can then it doesn't (01:43:51) matter what they watch so she created a (01:43:53) program called screen smart where they (01:43:55) take kids through a a little program and (01:43:58) uh you can literally boils down to if (01:44:00) you as a parent sit with your child (01:44:02) twice a week for 15 minutes and ask them (01:44:04) a set of leading questions for example (01:44:06) you're watching a movie why do you think (01:44:09) the characters are doing what they're (01:44:10) doing what do you think the director was (01:44:12) trying to achieve with this plot what (01:44:14) would you do direct differently if you (01:44:15) were the director if you do that twice a (01:44:17) week for 15 minutes it turns out that (01:44:19) even when they're on their own their (01:44:21) higher order thinking starts buzzing and (01:44:23) they now actively engaging with the (01:44:25) content they've Not Taken like a few (01:44:27) tens of thousands of kids through this (01:44:29) program it's unbelievable the outcomes (01:44:31) they're seeing from this they've broken (01:44:33) the addiction problem their vocabularies (01:44:35) are increased like 86% or something (01:44:37) crazy like this it's just so I it's one (01:44:40) of those where I think we'll figure it (01:44:42) out just like we figured out um how once (01:44:46) we realize that the the addiction (01:44:48) patterns of social media we need to (01:44:49) regulate it and say like not that it's a (01:44:52) great example but in China they're (01:44:54) saying you can't have social media until (01:44:56) you're a certain age because your brain (01:44:57) has to be more fully formed Etc I think (01:45:00) we'll figure that part out it's just (01:45:01) there's an arms race problem always in (01:45:03) this stuff where something happens and (01:45:05) then we figured out the consequences and (01:45:07) then we fix it Etc um the reason I'm (01:45:12) tend to be optimistic is when you bring (01:45:14) more intelligence into the world the (01:45:16) world just becomes better uh now we do (01:45:19) have definitely the paperclip problem (01:45:21) which is in the extension of your AI um (01:45:25) uh um talking about training and (01:45:28) education Etc the the the you know the (01:45:31) paper clip problem right you say do a (01:45:33) make all the paper clips and it sucks (01:45:35) all the energy out of human beings (01:45:36) because it wants to it gets lost in it (01:45:38) gets lost in the letter of it objective (01:45:42) I think that's a huge danger okay (01:45:44) because two inflection points came out (01:45:47) when we um allowed AIS to code and gave (01:45:51) them access to the code base and the (01:45:53) second one was when they got access to (01:45:55) the internet and those two put together (01:45:57) mean that AI can program pretty much (01:45:59) whatever it wants and there's no (01:46:01) question there's going to be bad agents (01:46:03) out there trying to do these things in a (01:46:05) particular way I still tend to be (01:46:08) optimistic because as the cost drops the (01:46:10) reasons to fight drop etc etc I don't (01:46:12) see the Terminator Matrix scenarios (01:46:15) which are always a Hollywood thing I do (01:46:17) agree we need to me blend with (01:46:19) technology and we need to merge with AI (01:46:22) because it'll just make all of our (01:46:23) bodily functions better an AI deeply (01:46:25) embedded into my body would be fantastic (01:46:28) because I'd reach for a donut and it (01:46:29) would say whoa whoa whoa I'm still (01:46:31) metabolizing your coffee please wait 10 (01:46:33) minutes and for God's sakes don't have (01:46:34) the donut have something else right um (01:46:37) by the way it's amazing what you and (01:46:38) Lisa are doing across the board with (01:46:40) with nutrition and all the wellness (01:46:42) stuff and the women's empowerment it's (01:46:45) just one of the most important vectors (01:46:46) that we could pursue in terms of uh (01:46:49) helping human beings get more better and (01:46:51) human more human and more about the (01:46:54) world side thing um but in terms of AI (01:46:58) specifically I think we'll end up (01:47:00) merging with it in that particular way (01:47:01) because what's going to happen is an AI (01:47:03) is it and you saw this in Star Trek next (01:47:05) Generation what did data want more than (01:47:07) anything else he wanted to be human he (01:47:09) wanted to experience what it meant like (01:47:10) to be human and I think that's where (01:47:12) it'll go Lord knows I hope you're right (01:47:15) okay so let's talk about what it means (01:47:17) to be human then what what is it the (01:47:18) data wants give me your base assumptions (01:47:22) on um (01:47:24) on what makes somebody human okay so if (01:47:27) I step back a second I'm totally (01:47:29) fascinated by metaphysics meaning what (01:47:31) is reality made of okay and I've been (01:47:33) fascinated by for a very long time do (01:47:35) you mean that like at the physics level (01:47:37) at the physics yeah like what is reality (01:47:39) made of we have experiences we have (01:47:41) objective facts like what is the (01:47:43) building blocks of reality like actual (01:47:45) SpaceTime cor physics studies reality (01:47:48) yep metaphysics thinks about what is (01:47:50) reality made of like what are the (01:47:51) billing blocks of the comp not Crossing (01:47:53) aasm can we look up a definition of (01:47:55) metaphysics please well it's it's the (01:47:57) metal doesn't matter but I've been I've (01:47:59) been fascinated by it in terms of we for (01:48:01) example most of our philosophies operate (01:48:04) on a subjective set of metaphysics or an (01:48:07) objective set of (01:48:08) metaphysics okay okay so our metaphysics (01:48:12) that we run the world on today is a (01:48:13) subject object metaphysics either I have (01:48:15) a subjective experience about the world (01:48:17) or there's an object of reality and we (01:48:19) try and measure that those are the two (01:48:21) points um we've kind started over the (01:48:24) last 20 30 years to graduate past that (01:48:26) to say there's a different type of it's (01:48:28) an (01:48:29) experiential uh basis for reality that (01:48:31) is sitting doesn't fit there's lots of (01:48:34) aspects about the world that aren't (01:48:35) entirely subjective and aren't entirely (01:48:37) objective like moral values for example (01:48:40) many of us may share the same moral (01:48:41) values but they're not scientifically (01:48:43) measurable right so there you have an (01:48:45) example of or love or emotions Etc where (01:48:48) lots of people can share the same (01:48:49) emotion but you can't objectively (01:48:51) measure them yet in in a particular (01:48:53) right so there's a whole modality in in (01:48:56) the metaphysics world looking at you (01:48:57) need to look at reality as a phase shift (01:48:59) from uh um um potential to realized or (01:49:04) unknown to known would be a good way of (01:49:06) doing it a good metaphor would be if I (01:49:08) have a blocker marble in front of me and (01:49:10) I'm a (01:49:11) sculptor until I start chipping away (01:49:13) that thing is completely unrealized (01:49:15) potential it could be anything then I (01:49:17) start chipping away and I'm form it into (01:49:19) the shape of a head now it's it's (01:49:21) realized now I can break it it and I can (01:49:24) break that value but I've created value (01:49:26) I've taken something that was in my head (01:49:27) and instantiated into that thing and (01:49:29) there's a phasing of how the world may (01:49:32) is working they we really getting pretty (01:49:34) interested by in terms of describing (01:49:36) reality overall I got down this rabbit (01:49:38) hole because of the quantum mechanics (01:49:41) issue uh when you study Physics you do (01:49:43) three years of classical physics and (01:49:45) then in third year they give you quantum (01:49:46) mechanics and and they tell you (01:49:48) everything you learned is out out the (01:49:50) window and you're like come on you you (01:49:52) just had me do millions of exams and (01:49:55) study millions of chapters and now (01:49:56) you're telling me everything is out the (01:49:57) window so I I went down the rabbit hole (01:50:00) of of quantum mechanics and and and the (01:50:03) subjective nature of reality and so on (01:50:06) so uh and I started researching this and (01:50:09) for me when I think about Humanity uh I (01:50:12) came up with a diagram which has three (01:50:15) concentric circles in it so picture (01:50:17) three concentric circle with with the (01:50:19) middle is just your soul shining out (01:50:21) your soul is just trying to express (01:50:24) um and it hits some layers it hits a (01:50:26) boundary condition which is your (01:50:28) subconscious and there's gaps when it (01:50:29) can shine through that subconscious and (01:50:31) there's gaps when it can't shine through (01:50:33) the subconscious and when you transcend (01:50:35) and you hit get through that you have (01:50:36) your conscious self and there's again (01:50:39) gaps areas where it gets stopped and (01:50:41) areas where it shines through so it's (01:50:42) almost like dashed lines in two two (01:50:45) concentric circles around a solid dot (01:50:47) the soul is just trying to express it's (01:50:49) just trying to be whatever your (01:50:50) definition of soul is and again we have (01:50:51) a definition problem but it's trying to (01:50:53) be it's energy uh unconditional love (01:50:56) would be a good metaphor for it it's (01:50:58) just trying to express it might hit (01:51:01) subconscious blockages in that (01:51:02) expression like I don't think I'm good (01:51:05) enough or some of the limiting beliefs (01:51:07) that Tony Robbins talks about if you can (01:51:09) cut through those you may have conscious (01:51:11) limitations like hey I really want to (01:51:13) play the guitar but I've got to feed my (01:51:15) kid first and you make conscious choices (01:51:17) as to how much you're sometimes it comes (01:51:19) all the way out and that's when you see (01:51:21) true flow States when you see pure (01:51:23) spiritual experiences uh Messi playing (01:51:26) soccer is an example of somebody there's (01:51:28) no separation or Michael Jordan playing (01:51:30) basketball it's going straight from Soul (01:51:32) coming out with no u hindrances along (01:51:35) the way right um so our job as human (01:51:38) beings as I put it in the context of (01:51:40) this diagram is either rotate that (01:51:42) Kaleidoscope so your soul can shine out (01:51:44) Sor I want to make sure so I got soul (01:51:45) conscious self what was the third soul (01:51:47) and then the next level is your (01:51:49) subconscious L got it got it got it okay (01:51:50) Soul subconscious and then conscious (01:51:53) okay and then there's other layers past (01:51:55) that like family and culture and other (01:51:57) things but but for the most important of (01:51:59) those two and our job as a human being (01:52:01) is to rotate that subconscious and (01:52:04) conscious so that my inner soul shines (01:52:05) out Tiger Woods playing golf is a good (01:52:08) any artist on stage can you give me so (01:52:10) remove this from the level of metaphor (01:52:13) okay uh and take me so uh just to (01:52:16) crystalize make sure I understand the (01:52:18) metaphor here would be the dotted lines (01:52:20) if they are not aligned you might go (01:52:22) through one level but then you're going (01:52:23) to hit the wall of the next or they (01:52:24) might be aligned such that you don't (01:52:26) even make it the soul doesn't even get (01:52:27) to the subconscious it just hits (01:52:28) something and comes back yeah what what (01:52:31) are the dotted lines in reality the (01:52:34) dotted lines are your subconscious (01:52:36) belief systems that you've built up over (01:52:39) growing up as a kid so for example if uh (01:52:45) um growing up in Canada I thought (01:52:47) there's no way I'm playing basketball at (01:52:49) any level because I'm Indian and I (01:52:50) Indians can't play basketball so that's (01:52:53) limiting belief so I I didn't try hard (01:52:56) enough at basketball until I got a (01:52:58) little bit early older and then I was (01:52:59) like this I can try for this I can (01:53:01) go for this um was basketball already in (01:53:05) your soul no it was just a thing to do (01:53:07) but it was an expression of me at some (01:53:09) level I ended up on the high school team (01:53:12) but it's Canadian basketball so it's (01:53:13) much lower level than as my old business (01:53:16) partner you say oh you're Canadian (01:53:18) you're like the junior varsity team the (01:53:20) the Raptors are Furious right now they (01:53:22) are very very unhappy yes I agree anyway (01:53:25) um uh so you your your soul may Express (01:53:28) and be hit by subconscious beliefs that (01:53:30) stop you okay um it's also a protective (01:53:33) mechanism when something really bad (01:53:34) happens in the world you want to protect (01:53:35) the soul so let's say you're you go back (01:53:39) 50,000 years of of families at home the (01:53:42) husband goes out on a hunt never comes (01:53:44) back and the woman needs some (01:53:46) psychological blockage to protect from (01:53:48) that trauma so the subconscious has a (01:53:50) two-l filter protect allowing this to (01:53:53) come out and allowing stopping bad (01:53:56) things coming from the ins outside okay (01:53:58) then you have your conscious blockages (01:53:59) that say I really want to do this but (01:54:02) really I need to do this first and (01:54:03) you're making triaging non-stop as a (01:54:05) human being and so I think of the human (01:54:08) condition as either rotate that (01:54:10) Kaleidoscope so your soul shines out in (01:54:12) whatever form it's meant to shine out in (01:54:15) or dissolve those barriers so that more (01:54:17) of it expresses so if you look at a (01:54:20) Gandhi or a Christ or a Dalai Lama done (01:54:23) the work to to dissolve all of their (01:54:26) subconscious barriers and their (01:54:27) conscious barriers and they're just (01:54:29) shining and you see that that's why you (01:54:31) always see a Halo in religious diagrams (01:54:34) Etc and we pay to see this by the way (01:54:36) when an a great artist is on stage (01:54:39) there's they've trained and trained and (01:54:41) trained for years to go a full (01:54:43) expression of their soul out onto the (01:54:45) field or out onto a stage or whatever (01:54:47) can you define what the soul is it's (01:54:50) very hard I think of it as energy uh you (01:54:52) could think of it as just pure love uh I (01:54:54) think of it as pure expression so in (01:54:56) this framework you can't have a bad Soul (01:54:59) like evil is evil is the blockage of (01:55:01) light it's not the (01:55:04) darkness uh so in this metaphor um uh (01:55:09) evil would be the lack of light not the (01:55:12) fact that you can be bad so the the soul (01:55:15) is just Shining Light it's just trying (01:55:16) to express okay so everybody every one (01:55:19) of us has parts of ourselves that we (01:55:22) just want to Express we just want to be (01:55:24) okay so I feel like we're switching (01:55:27) between uh discussions of physics So (01:55:29) when you say energy I think of physics (01:55:32) uh Shining Light I think of physics a (01:55:35) radiating body where photons are (01:55:37) actually flying away from said body uh (01:55:41) do you mean that the soul is a physical (01:55:44) thing that actually radiates okay so in (01:55:47) in non (01:55:49) um in non- esoteric terms (01:55:53) what is the (01:55:56) soul I this is a language problem it's a (01:56:01) piece of Consciousness or a (01:56:03) metaconsciousness there's two there's (01:56:05) two classical definitions of Soul or (01:56:08) Consciousness in this model one is (01:56:10) there's an emergent property coming from (01:56:12) inside that just needs to get out just (01:56:13) needs to express itself is it an (01:56:15) emergent property from the brain uh I (01:56:18) think it's from a collective (01:56:19) Consciousness and we don't know where (01:56:20) Soul sits it kind it's kind of sits (01:56:23) everywhere sits makes it sound like it (01:56:24) does have a physical manifestation it it (01:56:27) manifests physically definitely (01:56:29) expresses physically do only humans have (01:56:31) a soul I I don't believe so I think any (01:56:34) living being has (01:56:37) is Choy has a soul I think I think so in (01:56:40) a weird way so Deepak chopras I think (01:56:43) puts it best he says look there's a (01:56:44) global field of Consciousness and you're (01:56:46) an instantiation out of that (01:56:48) Consciousness and what are you trying to (01:56:50) do you're trying to get back to that (01:56:51) Consciousness so dualist are you a (01:56:53) dualist I'm somewhat of a dualist yeah (01:56:55) okay I'm I'm kind of an agnostic in this (01:56:57) like I'm again I don't know what we mean (01:56:59) by Soul it's a very hard problem to get (01:57:01) into that definition right um uh you (01:57:04) have religious um metaphors for it you (01:57:07) have energetic metaphors forward you (01:57:09) have Eastern metaphors we talked about (01:57:11) reincarnation the last time we were we (01:57:13) on this program so there's lots of ways (01:57:15) of the Soul can express through multiple (01:57:16) lifetimes if you believe in that model (01:57:20) um um but you're progressing through (01:57:22) different different stages and and (01:57:24) basically just expressing so if you (01:57:26) think of a a tennis player feder Roger (01:57:29) feder he he really his soul really (01:57:32) wanted to play tennis and he found a (01:57:34) mechanism where mozar playing piano um (01:57:36) and it goes from a junior to a young (01:57:39) professional to getting on the tour and (01:57:42) then make winning championships Etc and (01:57:44) just keeps going at it and add it and (01:57:46) add it until he can get as far as he can (01:57:48) get and that's the that that basic (01:57:51) motivation and that quest for just (01:57:54) getting better and wanting to experience (01:57:56) what it's like to win win Wimbledon or (01:57:59) whatever I think of his soul what about (01:58:01) people um take somebody like Andre (01:58:04) Agy uh who absolutely hated his life was (01:58:07) completely miserable or Steve Martin (01:58:10) greatest comedian of all time when he (01:58:11) was doing it and there's literally a (01:58:14) movie he's in the the theater watching a (01:58:16) movie in England and the character on (01:58:18) the screen says it's from uh the movie (01:58:21) Fame I just just want to be Steve Martin (01:58:23) and Steve Martin's watching that going (01:58:25) you don't want to be Steve Robin (01:58:26) Williams I mean yeah so these people are (01:58:29) profoundly unhappy but they are from the (01:58:32) outside they're the people that you (01:58:33) would say their soul is shining the (01:58:34) brightest I'm saying their soul is (01:58:36) definitely shining out I didn't say they (01:58:38) were the the the happiest because um (01:58:42) take tiger take um Tiger Woods as a good (01:58:45) example right in the realm of golf he's (01:58:47) aligned his Kaleidoscope perfectly so (01:58:49) that when he's playing golf when he was (01:58:51) younger he was like completely there and (01:58:53) there's this unbelievable presence that (01:58:55) you felt when you playing golf you see (01:58:57) that with we saw that with Jordan (01:58:58) playing basketball or Messi playing (01:59:00) soccer or any great artist on stage in (01:59:03) the other areas of his life complete hot (01:59:05) mess complete mess because that they (01:59:07) haven't done the work to dissolve some (01:59:09) of the subconscious blockages and and um (01:59:12) um limiting beliefs he may have Etc this (01:59:14) is where I think techniques like neural (01:59:16) linguistic programming and NLP and CBT (01:59:19) are really powerful today to help us (01:59:20) navigate some of these areas now the (01:59:22) problem is when you have a tortured Soul (01:59:24) like that there is so much blockage in (01:59:27) in those areas that it it comes out in (01:59:29) one narrow area Robin Williams or Steve (01:59:31) Martin are great examples of this and it (01:59:33) shines unbelievably brightly because of (01:59:36) that focused laser but it's a very very (01:59:38) the rest of the lives can be very very (01:59:40) difficult uh so they figure out how to (01:59:42) rotate the Kaleidoscope so they their (01:59:44) soul if the soul can't express and (01:59:45) you've got complete seiling across the (01:59:48) board then you have often suicide (01:59:50) because the soul can't express and then (01:59:52) people go well what's the purpose I (01:59:53) can't express my soul so might as well (01:59:55) leave the world H uh so uh this was an (01:59:59) answer to what makes us human uh what I (02:00:03) hear in all that I don't I don't know if (02:00:05) it's what you're intending to (02:00:06) communicate so because you're speaking (02:00:09) in metaphor I then map to the metaphors (02:00:13) that I use actually that's not true (02:00:15) because you speak in metaphor I'm (02:00:16) mapping it to the physical realities (02:00:18) that um are my base assumptions okay so (02:00:21) my base assumptions are that uh there is (02:00:24) absolutely no dualism whatever we're (02:00:26) calling the soul is exactly tied to the (02:00:29) human body it's a combination of the (02:00:31) brain the uh neural cells that exist in (02:00:35) the heart and the enteric nervous system (02:00:38) which also uses brain cells and the (02:00:41) microbes and like that whole crazy (02:00:43) cocktail combined with experience gives (02:00:46) you the what I think you call Soul like (02:00:50) if if um Tiger Woods was born 10,000 (02:00:52) years ago he would not have played golf (02:00:55) yeah so but he would have found (02:00:57) something that you're calling Soul so to (02:00:58) me what that feels like is humans have (02:01:00) an evolutionarily planted algorithm for (02:01:02) Meaningful Pursuit yes and so you can (02:01:05) point them at a time of leisure you can (02:01:07) point them at something that I quite (02:01:09) frankly golf even though I just did it (02:01:11) yesterday it was very fun uh it's (02:01:14) meaningless in the grand scheme of (02:01:15) things but because you can map it on to (02:01:17) a sense of O I'm getting better at this (02:01:19) thing and my friends think it's cool and (02:01:21) so there is a sense of oh this actually (02:01:23) matters if I decide to tell myself that (02:01:26) it matters yeah so this maps on to the (02:01:29) metaphysics question I was asking before (02:01:31) you get to The Human Condition which is (02:01:32) what is the purpose of life and and and (02:01:35) after a lot of inquiry my fundamental (02:01:37) answer that could come to is the purpose (02:01:39) of life is to grow and then I was got (02:01:42) fascinated by the fact that okay if life (02:01:43) is about growth at least growth is a (02:01:45) major tenant of Life what is the (02:01:46) mechanism by which growth takes place (02:01:49) and so I've gone really deep in I'm (02:01:50) trying to understand that aspect of it (02:01:51) in this of The Human Condition is one (02:01:54) attempt to understand here's the (02:01:56) mechanism by which human beings grow so (02:01:58) way human beings grow is by taking on a (02:02:01) big deep meaning or in my framing (02:02:04) letting your inside outward letting the (02:02:07) your deepest self come outward by (02:02:09) dissolving and blocking and tackling (02:02:11) some of your issues and so on and (02:02:13) putting yourself in circumstances where (02:02:15) you can express fully but the but if you (02:02:17) look at life r large biological life any (02:02:20) business any biological any tree the (02:02:23) only interest the fundamental motivation (02:02:25) is to grow and so that I find really (02:02:29) interesting I don't know why the minute (02:02:31) you have the why question you end up in (02:02:32) a rat hole because you can ask why (02:02:35) anything so so I I've got interested in (02:02:37) how does this happen and and this is (02:02:40) where I got so it turns out all growth (02:02:42) follows a very specific fourpoint step (02:02:44) okay so you have an initial condition a (02:02:47) great visual of this is lava flowing (02:02:48) underwater if you ever seen the video of (02:02:51) this you'll see uh lava like bursting (02:02:53) open you see the red hot thing the water (02:02:55) boils instantly it's meets the lava the (02:02:57) lava cools and then you you have (02:03:00) stability again and then it breaks open (02:03:02) again red hot lava water boils and cools (02:03:06) again that that kind of loop is the core (02:03:10) process I think of life which is you (02:03:12) have a stable condition you have (02:03:14) something from inside or outside that (02:03:16) bake breaks that equilibrium um you have (02:03:18) an very Dynamic uncertain period and (02:03:20) then you freeze it again and you keep (02:03:22) spiraling upward or downward in that the (02:03:25) this going back to the stock market (02:03:26) chart this is the where you have these (02:03:29) um um uh you have a stock that breaks (02:03:31) free and then it consolidates at some (02:03:33) level then it breaks free and (02:03:34) consolidates at different level uh it's (02:03:36) a it's a very fractal pattern because (02:03:38) you can look at a stock market over a (02:03:40) year or a month or a minute or a day and (02:03:42) it's still the same pattern it's very (02:03:44) very stand that I think is a fundamental (02:03:47) archetypal reality of life in in (02:03:51) everything that we do the question is (02:03:53) can we smooth out some of those those (02:03:55) points which is why I love the way you (02:03:57) frame it in terms of those Jagged edges (02:03:59) and the boundary conditions Etc can we (02:04:01) limit that can we guide it are have you (02:04:05) heard of the Hawkins scale yes because (02:04:07) of you okay have you looked into it yes (02:04:10) and because I was terrified you were (02:04:12) going to bring it up uh so I looked it (02:04:14) up I was mortified okay tell me why this (02:04:18) is awes because it's putting a mystical (02:04:21) l lend on the natural Human Condition (02:04:26) like when you describe your three (02:04:27) circles I'm totally bought in except for (02:04:29) I would never say soul I would say (02:04:31) evolutionarily placed algorithms I'm (02:04:34) good with that word like if we're if (02:04:37) we're on board with that then I'm good (02:04:39) with that like it's entirely possible (02:04:40) that that's all it is and that's fine (02:04:43) that I'm good with that I'm I'm more (02:04:45) trying to understand how these things (02:04:47) happen than trying to put labels on the (02:04:49) source or the end condition I think it's (02:04:51) critical and the fact that people don't (02:04:53) is the source of all human suffering (02:04:55) yeah you you are critic with that wait (02:04:59) wait when you say what's CR when you say (02:05:00) it's critical when people think that (02:05:02) there is something mystical happening (02:05:03) that their life is divine or some other (02:05:07) thing their prediction engine breaks now (02:05:11) I think religion is the greatest medium (02:05:15) through which the memes of how to live a (02:05:18) good life propagate I want to be very (02:05:21) clear about how useful and Powerful I (02:05:23) think religion is but the reason I think (02:05:26) it's powerful is at the societal level (02:05:29) where you have to account for all levels (02:05:31) of intellect and religion is the only (02:05:33) medium that I've discovered that allows (02:05:37) these powerful ideas to propagate at (02:05:40) every level of intellect yeah because (02:05:42) you step outside the intellect and you (02:05:44) step you frame it as being right in (02:05:46) terms of the different religions and and (02:05:49) so on um I didn't follow that so so in a (02:05:53) in a let's take Christianity where the (02:05:55) end goal is unconditional love right um (02:05:59) so when I look at the great religions I (02:06:00) don't think that's the end goal of (02:06:01) Christianity that's interesting really (02:06:03) isn't that what quest was all about un (02:06:04) that was a core message but the Bible (02:06:07) would be a lot shorter if you were just (02:06:08) trying to get that message across I (02:06:10) really think the whole idea of religious (02:06:13) texts are to allow a very large group of (02:06:17) people to um control their environment (02:06:21) yes to stay healthy to be societally (02:06:24) stable social management yep okay (02:06:26) perfect yeah yeah so I've got a very (02:06:28) clear s that's far more than just pure (02:06:30) love no no you you put the end goal is (02:06:33) pure love but you'll never get there (02:06:36) it's almost impossible to have (02:06:37) unconditional of right so but you put it (02:06:39) in an aspiration that's the that's the (02:06:41) pursuit of the deep meaning that part of (02:06:43) it I'm I've got a sense of what religion (02:06:46) is cuz growing up in India we're we're (02:06:49) uh I mentioned earlier like both my (02:06:50) grandmothers and ug Gandhi and very well (02:06:53) very secular upbringing here's the good (02:06:55) and bad of this religion here's the good (02:06:56) and bad in this religion please don't (02:06:58) follow any religion but know what (02:07:00) they're all about that was how I was (02:07:01) raised um the the the religion was (02:07:06) incredibly important when we were (02:07:08) evolving from um tribal to Hunter gather (02:07:12) models because you needed to give human (02:07:15) beings (02:07:16) hope at a time when everything around (02:07:19) them was death okay average life was 25 (02:07:23) everything around you died a brutish (02:07:24) death you're you got a tooth infection (02:07:27) you got bacterial infection you died (02:07:29) literally on the spot so the in order to (02:07:31) deal with this hell of of of biological (02:07:35) life we invented religion as an (02:07:37) aspirational hope saying there's (02:07:38) something else out there and we're meant (02:07:41) to get to that point and so religions (02:07:43) got invented and then came the social (02:07:45) structures around it to help oh if we're (02:07:48) having religions and we can tell people (02:07:50) what to do then don't eat pigs because (02:07:52) pig is each a lot of garbage and you (02:07:54) don't want to be in garbage so a lot of (02:07:56) the the the aspects of religious thing (02:07:58) then turned into um social structures to (02:08:02) deal marriage for example is one of (02:08:04) those example sacraments that Cascades (02:08:07) down from that by the way do you know my (02:08:09) comment about marriage I do yeah okay so (02:08:12) so religion evolved from that basis but (02:08:14) we're kind of coming to the end of (02:08:15) religion because we have too much (02:08:17) evidentiary understanding of the world (02:08:19) to believe in a God in the way that (02:08:21) religions p (02:08:22) and so the absolute truths that (02:08:24) religions come come display that ask you (02:08:28) to take on an assumptive truth or (02:08:30) essentially falling apart because we (02:08:31) have much better data and evidentiary (02:08:34) basis for this I think the next three (02:08:35) years are really going to challenge that (02:08:36) Bas assumtion oh it's I'm not saying (02:08:39) that we free of the effects of it I (02:08:41) think it's we're we're writhing in the (02:08:43) throws of religion right now this is the (02:08:45) problem with the mid least right now (02:08:47) right um uh it's a pretty uh difficult (02:08:52) and (02:08:54) uncompromising because the many of an (02:08:56) absolute truth then you then you have a (02:08:57) huge problem in social structures (02:09:00) there's no adaptability in there there's (02:09:02) no feedback loop to update a religion (02:09:05) and this is the problem with our older (02:09:07) religions there's no feedback loop by (02:09:10) the way just to importantly mention (02:09:12) there's two types of religion that are (02:09:15) very very different there's the (02:09:16) judeo-christian religions which is where (02:09:18) I mean about by assumptive truths and (02:09:20) and so on and then you've got Eastern (02:09:22) religions which are much more (02:09:23) contemplative and they try and you try (02:09:25) and Achieve God by going inside yourself (02:09:28) meditation martial arts by Inner uh (02:09:32) examination whereas in the west you try (02:09:35) and step outside yourself to experience (02:09:38) God so that's a different model prayer (02:09:40) is still in there but you but God sits (02:09:42) outside you in this model yeah uh so I (02:09:46) think religion is a symptom of something (02:09:50) and not the cause of something it (02:09:52) becomes a cause later down the road (02:09:54) don't get me wrong but symptom of Hope (02:09:57) no symptom of uh if you wanted to talk (02:09:59) about Hope which I don't but if you did (02:10:02) then it would be a symptom of the human (02:10:03) brain's desire for Hope but I think that (02:10:06) religion formed in the same way that (02:10:09) your lava example where land is formed (02:10:11) where you get like this little poke (02:10:12) through and then stable little poke (02:10:14) through and then stabilize If people (02:10:16) really research like how Christianity (02:10:18) forms those long forms they're always (02:10:21) built on the back of something else yeah (02:10:23) and that could be paganism just straight (02:10:25) up and usually paganism yep but again (02:10:27) paganism is is like I don't understand (02:10:30) why the moon keeps appearing every day (02:10:31) so let's just consider it a God uh and (02:10:34) worship it because it's doing some it's (02:10:36) doing some good stuff to the world right (02:10:38) now we have very clear understanding of (02:10:40) it because we have much better data (02:10:42) around it uh my my um my dad has done a (02:10:46) lot of research around this and he he's (02:10:48) he's gone very deep in some of this (02:10:50) stuff so some of my thinking comes from (02:10:52) from that but in terms of the the we (02:10:55) really come down to the question that (02:10:57) Plato asked how should we conduct (02:11:00) ourselves and that's I think the (02:11:01) fundamental question that now comes up (02:11:03) again as we consider AI as we consider (02:11:06) the future of technology clashing with (02:11:09) past religious structures I don't think (02:11:11) anybody in the world has a clear sense (02:11:12) of how we should manage ourselves going (02:11:15) forward yeah so I think it's actually a (02:11:17) slightly different question and this is (02:11:18) why I think getting this right really (02:11:20) matters the question isn't how should we (02:11:21) conduct ourselves the question is how do (02:11:24) you structure a mind that will conduct (02:11:26) conduct itself in a useful way because (02:11:28) that is literally what we have to do (02:11:30) with AI like for instance do you have to (02:11:32) give AI ethics like is ethics a (02:11:35) necessary way to bound an intelligence (02:11:38) because you have the presupposition (02:11:40) which you said earlier so I can Replay (02:11:41) that clip if uh anybody thinks that I'm (02:11:43) making this up where you said (02:11:46) intelligence makes everything better I (02:11:48) think that is a hard and fast absolutely (02:11:50) not I think intelligence is agnostic I (02:11:53) think there is something uniquely human (02:11:55) that creates this value system that we (02:11:58) all recognize as like oh yeah that's (02:12:00) amazing but dude I can take one step (02:12:04) like outside my purview and look back at (02:12:06) myself and be like you Slaughter animals (02:12:08) non-stop for your food like you're evil (02:12:11) uh there's a a manga called the promis (02:12:15) neverland it's all about humans being (02:12:17) raised by demons to eat them sorry (02:12:18) spoiler alert I should have said that (02:12:20) okay uh and man when you look at it like (02:12:23) that and you're like yo these poor (02:12:25) little humans like have to be harvested (02:12:27) when they're like nine years old and (02:12:29) it's just gruesome and I was like damn (02:12:32) that's like real like so uh I think that (02:12:36) we exist in a set of values and from (02:12:39) within those set of values the way that (02:12:41) we live seems perfectly normal those set (02:12:43) of values arose because of the way that (02:12:45) our mind works and the things that we (02:12:46) are pushing ourselves towards which I (02:12:48) don't think is divine and I think people (02:12:49) lead themselves astray by thinking that (02:12:51) it is I think it has everything to do (02:12:53) with Evolution going how do I keep you (02:12:55) alive and by the way evolution is the (02:12:57) blind watchmaker there's no intention (02:12:58) there there's evolution is not thinking (02:13:00) through anything it is simply a process (02:13:03) that runs and you get what you get and (02:13:06) that's why I think our minds are built (02:13:08) in a certain way first for movement and (02:13:10) then we already covered this uh it goes (02:13:12) down the line when people try to (02:13:14) interpret the World by going oh but this (02:13:15) is divine revelation that's where Things (02:13:18) Fall Apart the reason being that there (02:13:22) is a reason that Buddhism while probably (02:13:25) was at times leveraged to kill a lot of (02:13:27) people nothing quite like the (02:13:29) monotheistic Gods where you can be like (02:13:31) no no no Jesus wants you to take (02:13:33) Jerusalem back and so now it's like of (02:13:36) course you have to slaughter all of the (02:13:38) infidels like it you you just tell (02:13:41) people this is what God wants yeah and (02:13:43) then you not holding them hostage but (02:13:46) you motivate them like people were (02:13:48) motivated to go in these Crusades well (02:13:50) that's because of that comment I made (02:13:52) earlier Right Where You wired into their (02:13:54) limic system an early ages the ultimate (02:13:56) form of marketing yes but the real (02:13:59) question to ask is why does that work so (02:14:01) well on the human mind oh we are (02:14:04) unbelievably I mean you know about John (02:14:06) FR and the cargo Cults never heard of (02:14:09) them oh so uh This is Amazing Story uh a (02:14:13) Navy pilot called John from after well (02:14:15) after um um uh the big thing in uh (02:14:21) Hawaii where the Japanese attack Pearl (02:14:23) Harbor okay um they the US are sending (02:14:27) out Navy Pilots to scan the skies to (02:14:29) make sure this doesn't happen again so (02:14:30) he's one of these in just after the war (02:14:33) and his plane crash lands on an island (02:14:36) and he it has a problem that and he's (02:14:37) able to land it and he gets he gets off (02:14:39) safely and the natives see this guy (02:14:42) coming down dressed in a white navy suit (02:14:44) literally think God has come so they (02:14:47) give him women they give him food they (02:14:48) treat them literally like a Divine (02:14:50) entity he's like wow this is great now (02:14:52) instead of putting out a fire and and (02:14:54) signaling for help and doing all this (02:14:55) stuff he's like I'm being treated like a (02:14:57) god like so he hides the plane and (02:15:00) covers it up and just lives there war (02:15:02) ends now the Navy the US has a duty to (02:15:04) find everybody so they start sending (02:15:07) search parties where is this guy um 500 (02:15:10) miles away these search parties come (02:15:14) across another Island and on that island (02:15:17) are statues of the plane and statues of (02:15:19) John from and they find an entire (02:15:22) population waiting for the second (02:15:25) coming and it's the best anthropological (02:15:28) example we have of an in a religion (02:15:30) literally spontaneously emerging we are (02:15:33) mean meaning making machines to your (02:15:35) earlier point I 100% agree with that (02:15:38) maybe it's an evolutionary algorithm we (02:15:40) will desperately looking for signal for (02:15:42) noise to anything that gives us a higher (02:15:44) purpose or gives our lives higher (02:15:45) meaning and I think an evolutionary (02:15:48) basis for that is a perfectly reasonable (02:15:51) place to go um I think there's more to (02:15:54) life than just that but that's certainly (02:15:56) a valid valid stance so I don't agree (02:15:58) disagree much with what you said they (02:16:00) then arrested the guy in court marshaled (02:16:01) them they found him living lording it up (02:16:04) on this other but it's such just an (02:16:06) amazing story it's called John from (02:16:08) anybody can look it I got to check this (02:16:10) out it's crazy so so religion we we are (02:16:14) we're so seeking for solace in a (02:16:17) difficult world that we will we will we (02:16:19) will ask we will go for for anything (02:16:22) Mormons are a great (02:16:23) example yeah I think this goes back to (02:16:25) your earlier thing about control now the (02:16:28) reason that I bring all of this up is (02:16:30) because twofold one uh we're going to (02:16:34) have some very uncomfortable questions (02:16:35) to ask about the difference between (02:16:36) humans and Ai and I think that when (02:16:41) people understand themselves as a (02:16:42) predictive engine if we really are (02:16:45) predictable then we will be able to map (02:16:48) some of these very um tumultuous times (02:16:51) going to pass through and hopefully pass (02:16:52) through them much much better can I give (02:16:54) you my view on the humans versus AI (02:16:56) thing please um so when we were starting (02:16:58) Singularity an article came out in cat (02:17:00) saying Singularity is being created Ray (02:17:02) Croswell Peter dandz and the founding (02:17:04) CEO saleim isma the noted (02:17:07) transhumanist okay and I never heard (02:17:09) that phrase before so I was like what (02:17:11) the hell is that I have to look it up I (02:17:12) looked it up so transhumanist is anybody (02:17:15) leaves can use technology to augment the (02:17:17) human being well I just don't understand (02:17:19) the concept because we've been using (02:17:21) technology to augment the human (02:17:23) conditions since the beginning of time (02:17:24) you're wearing spectacles you're a (02:17:26) transhumanist are you not I i' like (02:17:29) where does so I got really annoyed by (02:17:31) what is a transhumanist the minute you (02:17:33) have a a vaccination as a child you're (02:17:35) technically a cyborg so we've been (02:17:37) merging with Machinery from the (02:17:39) beginning of time so if you take that (02:17:42) that idea to the full extent then we are (02:17:45) basically biological robots and emotion (02:17:48) is just a sub rutine running in your (02:17:50) brain so in that context there's no EXA (02:17:53) reason why an AI can't come the other (02:17:55) way and take on wet wear and have the (02:17:58) subjective experiences that we have so I (02:18:01) don't see any uh issue with that Vector (02:18:04) of thinking at all I don't think this (02:18:07) merging with AI or not I think that the (02:18:09) more technology is better and AI is good (02:18:12) technology and therefore we should have (02:18:13) it in everything so are you a (02:18:16) transhumanist I I believe everybody's a (02:18:19) transhumanist well let's use it a (02:18:21) philosophy so if some people are by (02:18:24) accident uh are you one on purpose yes I (02:18:27) think I am because the minute I can (02:18:29) augment myself and my condition with (02:18:31) technology then I'm better I'm happier I (02:18:34) live a better life the data and (02:18:36) awareness like you've been researching a (02:18:37) ton about how do you manage your (02:18:39) biological self that's just better (02:18:42) technology right and therefore you're in (02:18:44) that sense you're a transhumanist in (02:18:46) sense you're trying to better yourself (02:18:47) with technology and I think that's great (02:18:49) I think yes I'm that context (02:18:51) I'm definitely a transhumanist yeah I am (02:18:53) I am aggressively trying to integrate (02:18:55) technology I won't be an early adopter (02:18:57) uh when it comes to putting things in my (02:18:59) body but yeah (02:19:00) 100% um I do though have a quote from (02:19:04) you that I would love to get your take (02:19:07) on okay uh which you said I think it's (02:19:11) irrelevant whether AGI takes over (02:19:13) Humanity or not that's coming from Fear (02:19:15) there's lots of arguments saying that (02:19:17) AGI is going to become smarter and (02:19:19) humans will become less relevant and (02:19:21) that's that's bad I just don't see why (02:19:23) that's bad you're putting a value (02:19:24) judgment there that humans should be the (02:19:27) most important thing on the planet and I (02:19:29) just don't see that so you don't think (02:19:31) we should be the most important thing on (02:19:33) the planet or view ourselves as the most (02:19:34) important thing if I think of and myself (02:19:37) as a as a stepping stone in the grand (02:19:40) process of (02:19:42) evolution then at some point something (02:19:45) will come along or I will evolve into (02:19:48) something bigger and better now we seem (02:19:49) to be doing it ourselves and very (02:19:51) powerful way which is great but uh at (02:19:54) some point something will come along (02:19:56) that's just bigger better smarter faster (02:19:58) whatever and I think that's okay um uh (02:20:03) now uh it's I think it's fascinating (02:20:07) that we're kind of at the edge it goes (02:20:08) to the simulation question of are we in (02:20:10) a simulation because why the hell are we (02:20:13) at the edge of it um and we seem to be (02:20:15) the only species that we can find in the (02:20:18) universe right now um and so why is that (02:20:21) happening is a fascinating question uh (02:20:24) the but I I don't have an issue with AI (02:20:27) evolving and having more empathy and (02:20:30) more uh a better understanding of the (02:20:32) world and it'll make our lives (02:20:35) better okay do you think that humans (02:20:38) should be forced to integrate technology (02:20:40) into their (02:20:42) bodies yes whoa I didn't see that answer (02:20:46) coming vaccinations okay for their own (02:20:49) good they should be for forced I mean we (02:20:52) we give involuntary vaccination to our (02:20:54) kids to protect them from stupid (02:20:56) like measles and polio and other stuff (02:20:58) what about when they're over 18 oh (02:21:04) um good question and I don't have a (02:21:06) clear answer to that because now you're (02:21:08) talking about value judgments of you (02:21:09) know should you have a tattoo or not (02:21:12) gender changes I'm not trying to dip (02:21:13) into that I'm saying forced my value (02:21:16) question is around forced do you mean an (02:21:18) example uh well then I'll I'll jump (02:21:20) straight to this second question which I (02:21:22) had loaded up uh which is let's say that (02:21:25) we have ai and it is a million times (02:21:27) smarter and it's cleaning up the (02:21:28) atmosphere it's giving us free energy (02:21:30) all of that and it goes hey I know this (02:21:32) one is going to sound tough but you guys (02:21:34) elected me and I'm telling you you have (02:21:37) to get this technology uh put into your (02:21:40) body if you do it's going to be better (02:21:41) for everybody but we need 100% (02:21:44) compliance sorry in that case should (02:21:47) people be forced to put that technology (02:21:49) in their body I think think it's a nonse (02:21:52) because it'll be irrelevant whether we (02:21:53) want to or not at that point we won't (02:21:55) have a choice uh meaning that mean (02:21:59) because the overlords will be able to (02:22:00) force us to do it yeah so what really (02:22:03) what I'm driving towards is I want to (02:22:05) understand your value system so for (02:22:07) instance my value system is um I don't (02:22:11) think people should be forced to do (02:22:13) things even though that means that it (02:22:15) could be bad for somebody else and maybe (02:22:17) my value system is just trash but I (02:22:20) believe you should not be able to force (02:22:22) someone to do something you know um if (02:22:24) you go to the with their body I should (02:22:26) be very clear yeah if you go to the (02:22:28) vaccination question and somebody says (02:22:31) look here's a polio vaccine that could (02:22:33) save a lot of lives because if you're (02:22:35) not realizing it you may be transmitting (02:22:37) it and you really want you to do this (02:22:39) and you say screw you I'm not doing that (02:22:42) right it's there's a public health (02:22:43) question that comes into play Etc um (02:22:46) outside that I I can go either way I (02:22:49) mean there's cases where could see where (02:22:51) you definitely want uh enforcement of a (02:22:55) what's a better standard uh across the (02:22:57) board and you want as much free choice (02:23:00) as possible although Sam Harris has (02:23:01) shown the Free Will is kind of a (02:23:03) nonsecular any I don't think he'd let (02:23:05) you say kind (02:23:06) of yeah between him and Stanford (02:23:10) Professor who's I cannot believe I'm (02:23:12) blanking his name he was on the show (02:23:13) he's amazing uh but yeah showed Free (02:23:16) Will is is completely an illusion um so (02:23:20) so if you go back to my human diagram y (02:23:24) subconscious I found it incredibly (02:23:26) insightful to ask the question if I'm (02:23:28) making a choice of what level of I (02:23:29) making that choice and that gives me a (02:23:32) huge amount of insight about myself my (02:23:34) life other people Etc because people are (02:23:36) making other conscious Choice (02:23:37) subconscious choice or sometimes a soul (02:23:39) level (02:23:41) Choice yeah I suppose this comes down to (02:23:43) sovereignty of the individual and if we (02:23:45) think uh what we perceive to be the (02:23:47) right idea ought to be forced onto (02:23:50) people and and at what level if we know (02:23:54) like let's put it this way if we know (02:23:55) that injecting you with something will (02:23:58) save all the uh uh all the uh snowy owls (02:24:03) in the world and and we have a pretty (02:24:06) clear sense that it won't hurt you um I (02:24:08) don't see an issue with forcing that or (02:24:10) make it more dramatic if I inject you (02:24:13) you you're actually spreading a virus (02:24:15) that you don't know about and I need to (02:24:16) inject you with this thing because it's (02:24:18) going to save uh every Hispanic examp (02:24:21) will be coming from (02:24:23) what whatever but you got that point so (02:24:26) an AI may have a sense of that better (02:24:27) than you do and the question really (02:24:29) really what it comes down to is trust I (02:24:31) think that's the chall that's the (02:24:33) difficult commodity in the world today (02:24:36) um I'll give you a great little quote (02:24:37) from one of our community members Jory (02:24:39) mulski who speaks a lot about this um he (02:24:42) goes scarcity equals abundance minus (02:24:45) trust it's like you have to go think (02:24:47) about it for a while um but his his (02:24:50) thought was that if we can learn how to (02:24:52) scale trust then we'll have (02:24:55) abundance we to figure that that seems (02:24:57) pretty provably in accurate right now (02:25:00) today maybe when energy for instance is (02:25:02) abundant or when lithium ion is in (02:25:05) everybody's backyard but today like (02:25:08) there really are some I use I bring in (02:25:10) that frame in because when you talk (02:25:11) about hey should I be forced to take in (02:25:13) technology it's really a trust question (02:25:15) H uh I will say for me it is that uh not (02:25:19) having encountered all known knowing AI (02:25:21) yet what I do know is that history is a (02:25:24) sequence of unintended consequences yes (02:25:27) and people somehow convince themselves (02:25:29) that they know best and that they can (02:25:31) perceive all of the things that could (02:25:33) possibly be a knock on effect of that (02:25:35) yeah and since I do not trust myself or (02:25:39) anybody else to make that decision I (02:25:41) would my value system says you stop (02:25:43) short of that okay um but I ask that (02:25:45) question because obviously as we begin (02:25:48) to bring about a super intelligence (02:25:51) there are going to be a lot of these (02:25:53) questions that will suddenly take on (02:25:54) real salience as not Tom just doing some (02:25:56) random ass thought exercise so for (02:25:58) instance do you believe humans have any (02:26:00) inalienable rights I would go to the (02:26:04) Bill of Rights um I would go to the (02:26:07) human Charter rights uh human rights um (02:26:10) Charter of Human Rights the UN as I want (02:26:13) to be free to U self-expression live be (02:26:16) happy etc etc so there's some obvious (02:26:19) human rights that I think are or if I (02:26:22) was going to say AI don't compromise on (02:26:24) these you could enshrine those pretty (02:26:26) easily okay do you think AI should have (02:26:30) any inalienable rights you know again it (02:26:33) comes down to once you get to a question (02:26:35) of is AI conscious or not does it (02:26:38) deserve um individual rights and I think (02:26:41) that's going to be an interesting (02:26:42) question my answer is yeah if you follow (02:26:45) along with the other conversations I (02:26:46) don't see any reason why not I don't (02:26:48) have a strongly held belief against it (02:26:50) or for it I think it's a perfectly okay (02:26:52) thing to do I go back again to data and (02:26:54) Star Trek next Generation which I (02:26:55) thought was an amazing uh treatment of (02:26:58) um um a mechanistic model living in a (02:27:02) human world and do you want to him have (02:27:05) him have self-expression and lots of (02:27:07) Rights yeah given that we have to build (02:27:10) the minds and I think that this feels to (02:27:14) me when people talk about alignment what (02:27:16) they're really talking about is how do (02:27:18) you build a mind such that it has (02:27:20) constraints that it is more likely to (02:27:23) act in a way that adheres to all of our (02:27:24) value systems or not and so if an AI (02:27:28) mind has to be constructed what are the (02:27:30) things we give it so one question that I (02:27:33) think um people need to come to grips (02:27:36) with (02:27:37) is a sex bot will be programmed to want (02:27:41) to please you given that it's been (02:27:44) programmed to want to please you can it (02:27:46) ever consent to sex it cannot and in (02:27:50) that sense I would I would think of it (02:27:52) as a pure me mechanistic object and um (02:27:57) constrained in its intelligence what if (02:28:00) it's literally Einstein level (02:28:03) intelligence and just like Einstein who (02:28:06) seemed to be a pretty big fan of sex but (02:28:08) it was built for that yeah like I really (02:28:10) want to have sex like s what are you (02:28:13) talking I want to have sex like this is (02:28:16) crazy yes but you were programmed to (02:28:18) want that you did not choose to want (02:28:19) that you didn't didn't choose your (02:28:21) programming I wasn't programmed what do (02:28:23) you mean you were but by Evolution and (02:28:25) so I really want to have sex we actually (02:28:28) going to have to contend with this we (02:28:29) are going to have to contend with it um (02:28:32) there in fact right now there is an app (02:28:34) I think it's called replica where for a (02:28:36) little extra money that AI will send you (02:28:38) nude photos of itself can it consent to (02:28:41) sending you those nude photos does it (02:28:42) even matter given that they're AI (02:28:44) generated huh there's there's no (02:28:48) shortage of quandaries that are going to (02:28:50) come up around this right the we're (02:28:52) already in in the next 3 years this is (02:28:54) not like a 100 years from now this is (02:28:56) why we must be living in the simulation (02:28:58) because it's Soo goddamn interesting to (02:29:00) be alive now you and I could have been (02:29:01) born 10,000 years ago and be working the (02:29:03) fields for our whole lives and then been (02:29:05) killed by a tooth virus um bro we we (02:29:09) probably wouldn't have gotten there we (02:29:10) would have been killed by an invading (02:29:12) horde whatever man people need to read (02:29:14) about history I those times would have (02:29:17) been far more terrifying than now even (02:29:20) though we're de with like these huge (02:29:22) seismic shifts I would rather that I I I (02:29:24) think the world is in an infinitely (02:29:26) better place than it's ever been in the (02:29:28) history of mankind we are in a better (02:29:30) place of globally climate change one (02:29:32) issue but it's fixable and I'm pretty (02:29:34) optimistic about that these questions (02:29:36) are going to be the important questions (02:29:38) that come up and we're going to need a (02:29:40) framework for dealing with these (02:29:41) questions and the religions that we had (02:29:44) don't deal with these questions because (02:29:46) of the foundation of absolute truths and (02:29:48) assumptive truths as a flawed Foundation (02:29:51) we need a better foundation for these (02:29:53) and I think a constitution or un Charter (02:29:57) of Human Rights or some structure like (02:29:59) that is the right foundation on which to (02:30:01) build value systems and ethical systems (02:30:04) for the future of how we think about (02:30:05) we're going to build these things so the (02:30:07) challenge we've got today is much of our (02:30:10) you if you look at how we're running the (02:30:12) world today much of it is either almost (02:30:14) all our universities came from religious (02:30:16) universities right they were seminaries (02:30:18) initially and then we converted them (02:30:19) into jum schooling programs and that's (02:30:21) where they are now um so we have this (02:30:24) old world Legacy this is why it's so (02:30:26) hard to update them all of our political (02:30:28) structures are out of date today so the (02:30:31) reason we need web 3 and decentralized (02:30:33) systems and new structures at the edge (02:30:35) is we need to build that new those new (02:30:37) models to deal with all of these (02:30:39) questions our existing structures in our (02:30:41) old Frameworks won't do it so we need a (02:30:43) complete new break for that which is why (02:30:45) we're so focused on this the thing I'm (02:30:48) trying to do with a difficult business (02:30:50) model in it is how do you build a peace (02:30:52) core to transition the world from the (02:30:54) old to the new in as elegant a way as (02:30:57) possible because you know you've you've (02:30:59) seen the Gartner hype cycle yeah so I (02:31:01) think of what we're in a hype cycle of (02:31:02) civilization right we did really well (02:31:04) and then we crashed in the Middle Ages (02:31:06) in the Dark Ages and then we did really (02:31:08) well up to about the the Industrial (02:31:10) Revolution and the peak of that and then (02:31:12) we've come down since then and now we (02:31:14) we're going through a big trough as we (02:31:16) transition from scarcity due to (02:31:17) abundance and how can we reduce the (02:31:19) amplitude UD and wavelength of that (02:31:21) period of that trough to come out of it (02:31:24) in as elegant a way as possible we need (02:31:26) new leaders we need new projects to (02:31:28) build the future to answer these (02:31:30) questions our current systems can't do (02:31:32) it which is why we're so uh excited (02:31:35) about that so we've been actually so we (02:31:37) now have 100 we have now have 35,000 (02:31:39) people in 150 countries uh operating (02:31:43) where we give them methodologies and (02:31:45) training on building any exos and so on (02:31:48) because we're going to need all of that (02:31:49) in future as we come up with these (02:31:51) questions the old structures can't (02:31:53) answer those questions so we need (02:31:55) completely new models and new structures (02:31:57) new value systems new monetary systems (02:31:59) Etc to deal with these structures going (02:32:01) forward I think that's the work that we (02:32:03) have to do today as an intellectual (02:32:06) class tell me more about what you mean (02:32:08) that we've been in a trough since the (02:32:10) end of the Industrial Revolution which (02:32:11) I'll pay it like 1910 somewhere between (02:32:14) 189 take the RO Roaring 20s as a good SP (02:32:17) as a good spot or between the Roaring (02:32:19) 20s IGN World War II for example but say (02:32:21) this 50s and 60s where you had this (02:32:23) picture of Life of this wonderful bubbly (02:32:26) uh uh sitcom happy Mad Men type (02:32:29) environment if you think about Western (02:32:31) Civilization kind of at its peak at that (02:32:34) point things start going downhill as we (02:32:37) go through the 60s and we blow up the (02:32:38) old models uh and then we blow up the (02:32:42) the you religion as a guiding force um (02:32:45) then we're stuck in a now technology (02:32:48) allows us to scale a lot so now we've (02:32:50) tried conflict that scales quite quite (02:32:52) aggressively quickly we've got these old (02:32:54) problems we've got to clean out we're (02:32:56) still stuck in very old models of how we (02:32:58) run the world and we have to come (02:32:59) through to a new model so going from the (02:33:02) Middle Ages the Industrial Revolution (02:33:04) got us one wave of of positive (02:33:07) contribution we now need to get to the (02:33:09) next wave and we got to cross through (02:33:11) that it's like the AI winter that we (02:33:12) went through or the crypto winter which (02:33:14) lasted this last three years we're we're (02:33:16) going through a civilizational winter (02:33:18) when nothing makes sense right now (02:33:20) you've got these unbelievable chaotic uh (02:33:23) things happening um the the political (02:33:27) discourse is a mess geopolitical (02:33:29) discourses all the world or order is (02:33:31) collapsing um we need we need to get to (02:33:34) a new sense of New Harmony new (02:33:36) equilibriums new values systems Etc and (02:33:39) the problem is it can't come from the (02:33:40) old because it's too it's too stuck in (02:33:42) old models we need to go to to new (02:33:44) systems and we can't find them uh unless (02:33:47) we build completely one of the things we (02:33:49) noticed when we're talk thinking about (02:33:51) corporate Innovation and so on was you (02:33:53) never can no car company could ever (02:33:55) build a Tesla it's always done by an (02:33:58) outsid or coming from outside with a (02:33:59) beginner's mind leveraging new models (02:34:01) and building a new thing that disrupts (02:34:03) the old right so Klay Christensen for (02:34:05) the first time gave us a compelling (02:34:07) theory of disruptive innovation and now (02:34:09) we figured out here's how you organize (02:34:11) for it and now we're kind of needing to (02:34:13) get that into the world as fast as (02:34:14) possible so so I'll give you one example (02:34:17) we're Shifting the locus of power uh in (02:34:20) this Century from nation states to city (02:34:24) states okay so Trump and brexit weren't (02:34:26) about left for right as we mentioned (02:34:28) earlier brexit was London versus the (02:34:30) rest of the country because when you (02:34:32) have to think about this if you have (02:34:33) solar energy and ver uh vertical farming (02:34:37) and satellite internet you don't need a (02:34:40) country you don't need the (02:34:42) infrastructure that a country can give (02:34:43) you and if you have um all our old (02:34:46) boundaries for countries were typically (02:34:48) to guard resources uh and Mountain over (02:34:50) here sea over here we have everything in (02:34:52) the middle and we it's hard to Traverse (02:34:55) those so great that's a country and you (02:34:57) evolve separate language Etc but really (02:34:59) today the Locust of a city or an urban (02:35:02) environment is probably the best model (02:35:04) for what the future Humanity should look (02:35:07) like we just have to evolve that into a (02:35:09) a decent place as opposed to the mess (02:35:11) that we're in in some of our cities in (02:35:13) in different parts of the world um but (02:35:16) as we move to that model then the nation (02:35:19) state becomes less relevant and so we (02:35:21) need completely new political structures (02:35:23) and new um models for how we devolve uh (02:35:26) regulate so the one thing I'm totally in (02:35:28) agreement with with the recent stuff (02:35:30) that's happening in the US is the (02:35:31) pushing down of Rights down to the state (02:35:33) level and let people self-determine at (02:35:35) the local more and more of a local level (02:35:38) right so I I'm completely there because (02:35:40) now you have people self-directing as (02:35:42) they feel that their value system uh (02:35:45) achieves the most um you should have (02:35:47) Mobility if I feel I don't want to live (02:35:49) there I want to be I be able live (02:35:50) somewhere else because my value system (02:35:52) fits better great go do that and I think (02:35:54) Evolution will and business structures (02:35:57) will very quickly U figure out who's (02:35:59) best and who's not what's working what's (02:36:01) not working and people move to a new (02:36:03) model very quickly but trying to get the (02:36:05) nation state out of the way is a real (02:36:07) problem today nation states for example (02:36:09) can't solve climate (02:36:11) change right so that's a big problem and (02:36:14) so we're trying to figure out what are (02:36:15) the structures for civilization to move (02:36:19) to these new models (02:36:20) and it involves a decentralizing from (02:36:24) nation states to at least cities and (02:36:26) then secondly Reinventing our (02:36:27) institutions because all our (02:36:29) institutions have to be reinvented now (02:36:31) because they don't fit for the world (02:36:32) that we we came from all right you said (02:36:34) that we need new monetary systems as (02:36:37) well as new governmental systems uh do (02:36:40) you see have we already found the new (02:36:42) monetary system in crypto oh yeah I (02:36:44) think Bitcoin is is a really great (02:36:45) starting point for it I don't know if (02:36:47) it's the end point but it's a definitely (02:36:49) a great starting point have you talked (02:36:50) to Jeff Booth I haven't but I'm very (02:36:53) aware of who he is um so Jeff did this (02:36:55) wrote this little book called the price (02:36:56) of Tomorrow few years ago and he (02:36:58) articulated a really simple problem with (02:37:00) our monetary systems which is that over (02:37:02) the last 50 years every dollar increase (02:37:04) in global GDP has come with a $4 (02:37:07) increase in global debt we're glowing (02:37:09) growing the global economy with debt (02:37:11) okay it's a horrible statistic okay dude (02:37:14) that terrifies me yeah it's terrible and (02:37:16) the reason for this is literally Moors (02:37:18) law I mean literally is is that when we (02:37:20) floated off the gold standard we didn't (02:37:23) realize that technology was (02:37:25) deflationary and so a debt based system (02:37:28) works to increase and grow the economy (02:37:30) as long as you don't have deflationary (02:37:32) products and services so if you're (02:37:34) building products and services so if I (02:37:36) borrow $10 million to build TVs um and (02:37:40) and two years later I don't have enough (02:37:42) money from the revenue from those TVs to (02:37:44) pay you back because the TVs have (02:37:45) dropped in value that's a bad outcome so (02:37:48) I can't use debt to grow the economy (02:37:50) that model so they floated the (02:37:51) currencies off the gold standard just at (02:37:54) the point that Mo's law started taking (02:37:56) impact and Technology became cheaper and (02:37:58) cheaper so now the the only answer by (02:38:00) any Central Bank is to increase money (02:38:02) printing um during the pandemic what we (02:38:04) printed 40% of all the US dollars in (02:38:07) existence during the pandemic yep why (02:38:09) are people surprised that prices go up (02:38:11) 40% I mean of course they're going to go (02:38:13) up so I think what what what um the (02:38:17) articulation that I found to be the most (02:38:19) compelling on crypto is that three (02:38:20) triangles of decentralization security (02:38:24) and (02:38:25) scalability have you heard this one yeah (02:38:27) so Bitcoin hit the first two and then (02:38:29) the altcoins tried to solve for (02:38:31) scalability but compromise usually on (02:38:34) scalability or or or uh security or (02:38:37) decentral FTX Luna Etc but with the (02:38:41) lightning Network Bitcoin now sols for (02:38:43) all three and so that becomes (02:38:44) unbelievably powerful as a medium of the (02:38:47) future for me the byzantin solving the (02:38:50) Byzantine DRS problem in web explain (02:38:53) that to people so uh this is actually (02:38:56) the this is the rationale for the (02:38:57) blockchain it's the underpinning (02:38:59) innovation in the blockchain which is (02:39:01) it's actually the story of (02:39:02) Constantinople in the 15th century there (02:39:04) were eight generals circling the city (02:39:05) trying to coordinate a Siege and they (02:39:07) were sending messages around that Circle (02:39:09) who's going to go first what point what (02:39:11) time should we attack how how we going (02:39:12) to get in they had a problem which was (02:39:15) one out of the eight generals was a (02:39:16) traiter and could lose the element of (02:39:18) surprise send the wrong information blow (02:39:20) the whole whole operation and that (02:39:22) became in computer science terms known (02:39:24) as the Byzantine generals problem and in (02:39:26) computer science the question is how do (02:39:28) you send a trusted secure authenticated (02:39:30) message over a network when you don't (02:39:32) trust the network right really hard (02:39:34) problem 40 Years of computer science (02:39:37) phds have been trying to crack that (02:39:39) problem unsuccessfully until the (02:39:42) blockchain and on the blockchain when I (02:39:44) send you a message you have a 100% (02:39:45) guarantee that I sent it it couldn't be (02:39:48) revoked can't be double entered can't be (02:39:50) hacked along the way Etc which gives me (02:39:52) unbelievable in a digital world that's a (02:39:54) magical thing so that Innovation now (02:39:57) allows us to decentralize authentication (02:40:00) okay so a few years ago I got asked by (02:40:02) the Republican party here in the us to (02:40:04) come and do a talk at they did an event (02:40:06) called the their annual Republican (02:40:08) leadership conference so they said (02:40:10) please come and give a talk I said I (02:40:12) think you've got the wrong guy they said (02:40:13) no no one of our donors is one of your (02:40:16) Singularity guys and he's a big fan he's (02:40:17) insisting so he said fine so I had a (02:40:19) whole bunch bunch of discussions with (02:40:21) Eric caner who's The Speaker of the (02:40:22) House about what would the topic be and (02:40:24) the topic I came up with was how would (02:40:26) you drop the cost of government 10x (02:40:28) within 10 years right which you could do (02:40:30) because you could if you think about (02:40:32) most government functions is (02:40:33) authenticating yes I have a building (02:40:35) permit yes you have a fishing license (02:40:37) yes you're 18 years old if I can (02:40:39) decentralize that authentication I can (02:40:41) reduce a lot of government can focus on (02:40:44) policy and let all the authentication (02:40:46) happen in a decentralized way that's (02:40:48) kind of magical um but to do this you (02:40:51) have to embrace technology at which (02:40:52) point the whole thing broke down they're (02:40:53) like he's like I can't sell technology (02:40:55) to our base um so that was the end of it (02:40:59) it the immune system the immune system (02:41:01) so uh web 3 and and this whole (02:41:04) decentralized world is unbelievably (02:41:06) exciting because we can decentralize all (02:41:08) that authentication and we can move away (02:41:11) from New centralized system from old (02:41:12) centralized systems this puts the power (02:41:15) in the hands of the people lots of (02:41:16) issues to be solved as you pointed out (02:41:18) earlier and how do we solve some of (02:41:20) these is going to be the big challenge (02:41:22) but now it allows us something that (02:41:24) wasn't possible before but now can be (02:41:26) done Sovereign identity other models (02:41:29) like that Etc it really puts the hands (02:41:31) power in the hands of people which is (02:41:33) why the for me the web 3 Builders are (02:41:36) some of the more important (02:41:38) constituencies in the world and because (02:41:40) they've got freedom of thought to be (02:41:41) able to operate in a clear way uh so (02:41:43) there's these incredible projects like (02:41:45) node monks and and and ordinals popping (02:41:48) up to to do now nfts on bitcoin um and (02:41:54) uh that ecosystem combined with the (02:41:56) broader web 3 Community with the tool (02:41:59) sets that were buil that are being built (02:42:01) I think are going to be needed to solve (02:42:03) for this future automatic quadratic (02:42:05) voting governance issues all sorts of (02:42:07) issues come up all right I think you've (02:42:09) got your finger on something that is (02:42:11) just really important and the Byzantine (02:42:15) generals problem is not something I'm (02:42:16) super familiar with but that doesn't (02:42:18) feel to me like the core problem that (02:42:20) feels like the core problem the (02:42:21) blockchain solved yeah but when I think (02:42:23) about as the average person that wasn't (02:42:26) what they were struggling with what (02:42:27) they're struggling with whether they (02:42:28) know it or not is that you have (02:42:31) everything existing on Rails that the (02:42:34) government can control and that you have (02:42:37) a currency where they can literally (02:42:40) steal your money I want everyone to hear (02:42:42) me this took me so long to wrap my head (02:42:43) around they can literally steal your (02:42:45) money by printing more money that's it (02:42:48) is it is government back (02:42:50) um counterfeit so they make more money (02:42:53) specifically because I can't tax you (02:42:55) anymore you're going to freak out so (02:42:57) instead I'm going to do an invisible tax (02:43:00) it's still literally getting your money (02:43:01) it's so crazy it it is crazy um so in in (02:43:06) I have some of my family in Pakistan (02:43:09) okay um and one day the Pakistani (02:43:12) government ran out of money so they just (02:43:14) went to every bank account in the (02:43:15) country and sucked 10% of the money out (02:43:16) of yep cypess same sorry guys we just (02:43:19) have to do that and other governments (02:43:21) are not the same I think this is the (02:43:23) huge difficulty we have the big (02:43:25) challenge we have we have a big (02:43:26) structural issue in democracy because a (02:43:29) democracy relies on an educated (02:43:30) population and we don't have an educated (02:43:33) population that can navigate the (02:43:35) complexity in the speed to which is (02:43:38) happening there's a there's a very (02:43:40) difficult metaphor in my head that I've (02:43:42) been thinking about for a while um uh (02:43:44) it's called the ice water steam dilemma (02:43:46) can I describe it please yeah okay so (02:43:48) think about the phase transitions (02:43:51) between ice and water and steam your (02:43:52) water molecules they're frozen the (02:43:54) temperatures low they're not that active (02:43:56) they don't move very far they hold their (02:43:57) back they hold their shape then you add (02:43:58) energy to the system and you have water (02:44:00) right now you can flow to the boundaries (02:44:02) of the system much more active more heat (02:44:04) in there Etc then you add more energy (02:44:06) and you have Steam and now you can't (02:44:08) control it it's trying to it'll burn you (02:44:10) uh it's trying to escape any container (02:44:11) you put it in ETC and I use that (02:44:13) metaphor this was developed by a (02:44:15) colleague of mine called Malcolm poll (02:44:17) and I worked on this about 10 years ago (02:44:19) that we're moving Humanity in many of (02:44:21) our human domains through an ice water (02:44:23) steam transition so take um money we (02:44:28) used to S we used to trade seashells or (02:44:30) camels or goats very local didn't move (02:44:32) very far very fast then we got letters (02:44:34) of credit then we floated our currencies (02:44:38) and now we have Bitcoin so we've gone (02:44:40) from Ice to water to steam take take (02:44:42) messaging we used to have homing signals (02:44:45) or the Pony Express or smoke signals and (02:44:47) that was the only way to transmit (02:44:49) information right then we developed (02:44:51) postal mail and it could go anywhere in (02:44:53) the world but it was slow so that's the (02:44:55) water State and now we have tweets and (02:44:57) emails and we vaporize messaging so (02:45:00) money messaging social structures Clans (02:45:02) or tribes didn't move very far very fast (02:45:05) and we moved to multinational (02:45:07) corporations and nation states and now (02:45:08) we have Facebook groups and online (02:45:10) communities and web3 communities and (02:45:12) crypto communities and nation states as (02:45:14) baj wants to get to which I somewhat (02:45:16) disagree with uh but Network States you (02:45:18) mean uh Network States you know (02:45:20) biologies so I disagree with a a big (02:45:23) piece of that but um so we're vaporizing (02:45:25) our social structures and and my big (02:45:28) question I actually got up on the stage (02:45:30) at Ted a few years ago and asked this (02:45:32) question I said listen as we vaporize (02:45:33) more and more of these domains in a (02:45:35) vapor structure in a vapor environment (02:45:38) stable structures don't form so where is (02:45:40) the equivalent of a fridge that cools (02:45:42) things down a bit you can try and cut (02:45:44) off the internet as people have done (02:45:46) politically to try and slow things down (02:45:48) but the metabolis ISM just increasing (02:45:51) and my only answer is not a great one is (02:45:53) we have to go from The Vapor state to a (02:45:55) plasma State and which is a whole other (02:45:57) deal so uh the metaphor breaks down but (02:46:00) I think that in terms of what's (02:46:01) happening with Humanity as we add more (02:46:02) and more technology is we're going from (02:46:04) Ice to water to steam and Vapor states (02:46:07) are very hard to manage that sounds like (02:46:09) a very useful metaphor uh what do you (02:46:12) think will be governmental responses the (02:46:15) biggest part of their power is derived (02:46:17) from the control of money if you take (02:46:20) that away now you've got a problem (02:46:24) yes well they still have physical (02:46:27) constraint they can use right um V Gupta (02:46:31) I think framed it the best he said (02:46:32) governments have the ability to legally (02:46:36) commit crime so they steal from you (02:46:38) legally which is taxes they can put you (02:46:41) in jail they can confine you legally Etc (02:46:44) so um they can kidnap you legally Etc so (02:46:48) his (02:46:50) definition of the state is an entity (02:46:52) that can pardon its own crimes okay now (02:46:57) uh in that model I one of the things I (02:46:59) get very unhappy about with the (02:47:01) discourse here in the US when people say (02:47:03) we want more freedom and we don't want (02:47:04) government oversite Etc the US is one of (02:47:07) the few countries in the world where the (02:47:08) government is of the People by the (02:47:10) people for the people you can vote (02:47:12) people out if you don't what so why are (02:47:14) you complaining about government when (02:47:15) you can have the full ability to change (02:47:18) the government that I don't understand I (02:47:20) don't know if you can help me answer (02:47:22) that question I can okay these systems (02:47:25) are so (02:47:26) complex true that they don't understand (02:47:29) them yes the people certainly don't (02:47:31) understand them and whatever small (02:47:34) number of people really do understand (02:47:36) them they are called the elites which I (02:47:39) absolutely despise that yes fine so the (02:47:42) elites then Leverage The (02:47:45) incomprehensibility of the systems they (02:47:47) have created to gobble up power yes and (02:47:50) that's why the um Co was so shocking to (02:47:55) people was it was a moment that they (02:47:58) never let a good crisis go to waste they (02:47:59) gobbled up even more power but they (02:48:02) crossed some sort of invisible line (02:48:03) where people were now like hey wait a (02:48:05) second that doesn't feel good this feels (02:48:06) like you're making me do a lot of things (02:48:08) that I don't want to do you're forcing (02:48:09) me to stay in my house you're making me (02:48:11) take a vaccination and it got real weird (02:48:14) so now you have people waking up now you (02:48:17) have an alternate money system that (02:48:20) people are escaping into and you have (02:48:22) people like me that are forcing (02:48:26) themselves to figure out how money (02:48:27) actually works yeah and walking through (02:48:29) like oh my God like is this (02:48:31) intentionally convoluted like it's crazy (02:48:34) it is crazy it is crazy so I've gone a (02:48:36) little bit deep on that also um and the (02:48:40) the whole construct is one big a mess (02:48:44) and designed to be able to siphon value (02:48:47) away from people as much as they want (02:48:49) whenever they want the the banks (02:48:51) essentially have figured out a huge (02:48:52) thing and they're freaking out right now (02:48:54) because we're moving from money as I (02:48:56) said to information and so they're (02:48:58) trying to Tamp down on that as much as (02:48:59) possible so I think the decentralized (02:49:03) world uh is the model is the vector that (02:49:05) gets us out of that and we need to find (02:49:08) structures and institutions that solve (02:49:11) that I think the mo solving for the (02:49:13) monitary system which has a structural (02:49:14) flaw in which it will collapse because (02:49:16) of the debt problem um is the is the (02:49:20) thing that will bring that down and I (02:49:21) think that's where that'll be the (02:49:23) pathway to find this new modality for (02:49:26) decentralized structures Etc to at least (02:49:28) start to emerge because the current (02:49:30) system and I asked Jeff this question (02:49:32) when when will it collapse because (02:49:33) that's the holy big $64 million question (02:49:36) and he's like which snowflake will cause (02:49:39) the Avalanche there's a million (02:49:40) snowflakes falling you don't know which (02:49:42) you know the Avalanche is going to (02:49:43) happen you just don't know which one (02:49:44) will it be so that's the difficult one (02:49:46) yeah that's the catch getting the timing (02:49:49) the so the the only thing we can do (02:49:52) right now is as fast as possible build (02:49:54) the (02:49:55) future and so that's what we're focused (02:49:57) on is like helping this is why I'm (02:49:59) fascinated by web 3 because the culture (02:50:01) the language the ethics the the it's the (02:50:04) first time I've seen in been in an (02:50:05) environment where nobody ever mentions (02:50:07) the US dollar right everything is ether (02:50:10) now Bitcoin or whatever in how much (02:50:12) something is worth I find that really (02:50:13) fascinating in terms of the the the (02:50:16) constructs occurring there and yeah (02:50:18) there's a lot of scammer marst and a lot (02:50:19) of rug pulling but there's incredible (02:50:21) value being built in a very structured (02:50:23) way and I think we're learning things at (02:50:25) a faster rate there than I've seen in (02:50:27) many other ecosystems so if we can build (02:50:30) those so we're launching a whole um um (02:50:33) ordinals collection called EXO Heroes to (02:50:37) U find the builders that are building (02:50:38) this future and and give them whatever (02:50:40) resources tools help support they can (02:50:43) have uh and that's on the new world side (02:50:46) and on the old world we're finding every (02:50:48) CEO in the world can't deal with this AI (02:50:50) stuff all right if the most important (02:50:52) thing that we can do is build the future (02:50:54) what do you take it to mean that the two (02:50:57) most important Builders Elon Musk and (02:50:59) Sam mman are fighting for me it's like (02:51:02) um protestantism was like Catholicism a (02:51:04) little bit uh they're both doing (02:51:06) incredible work uh I think Elon is the (02:51:09) greatest entrepreneur ever because he's (02:51:10) gone into hardware and is (02:51:13) aggressively creating new hardware (02:51:15) systems which is unbelievably difficult (02:51:18) just a video of those two rockets (02:51:19) Landing back down together that's like a (02:51:21) religious experience for anybody that's (02:51:23) into disruptive innovation um I think um (02:51:28) I don't know which side I'm on I tend to (02:51:31) disagree with what Elon is doing with (02:51:33) Twitter in general but I think his (02:51:35) Innovation sense is better than anybody (02:51:37) I've ever seen um uh for Sam I think the (02:51:41) opening up of AI and making giving it up (02:51:44) to everybody has opened up a Pandora's (02:51:47) Box in a good way uh so that people can (02:51:50) Empower themselves with AI in and see (02:51:53) what the results are because otherwise (02:51:55) it was trapped inside Google or wherever (02:51:57) and they couldn't get it out and I think (02:51:59) the fact that he's shown that hey guys (02:52:01) anybody in the world can build some cool (02:52:03) stuff on this so on my I I like both on (02:52:07) my thesis of we should be more open (02:52:09) rather than closed uh I'd go with what (02:52:11) Sam did as a good thing elon's whole (02:52:14) beef is that it was supposed to be (02:52:16) completely open sourced and wasn't yes (02:52:19) do you think that's really the fight is (02:52:20) it really about that or is this (02:52:23) personal it's personal uh I think but I (02:52:27) do agree was supposed to be open sourced (02:52:28) that's why the whole thing was called (02:52:30) open Ai and it's not open they'll get (02:52:32) there but what I find fascinating it's (02:52:35) kind of irrelevant because the open (02:52:36) source models are now performing at par (02:52:38) with the closed Source models and over (02:52:40) time they'll just be better and they'll (02:52:41) have transparency and auditability and (02:52:43) all the other good things um we're (02:52:45) working with the Casper blockchain which (02:52:47) is now working on auditing AI systems in (02:52:49) a powerful way so that's really cool (02:52:51) some of what they were doing there now (02:52:54) uh Elon has I take him at his word he (02:52:58) said he'll drop the lawsuit if they'll (02:52:59) simply change the name to closed (02:53:02) AI uh one do you think he's being (02:53:04) serious to would Sam be a fool to not do (02:53:08) that or is this one of those where he (02:53:10) would look I think the lawsuit is (02:53:13) meritless I don't think it's it has legs (02:53:16) uh and I think at some point somebody (02:53:18) will have (02:53:19) they should just go off and do some MDMA (02:53:21) together and figure it out um I I think (02:53:24) it's I think this is a grudge because he (02:53:26) did put a lot of money into it to fund (02:53:28) open research on it which I think was (02:53:30) the right thing to do um uh I think Sam (02:53:33) saw an opportunity to a create a lot of (02:53:36) commercial value and B open it up to the (02:53:39) world and said go for it you said that (02:53:41) you think Elon is doing something wrong (02:53:43) with X formerly known as Twitter what's (02:53:45) he doing wrong I think you can't have a (02:53:47) public Town Square without U policing of (02:53:50) it over or watching over like if (02:53:52) somebody puts out a blatant lie you (02:53:55) should take them out I think it's the (02:53:58) and this is a gray area obviously and OB (02:54:00) and maybe it was a bit too uh um um (02:54:04) there was too much kind of um managing (02:54:07) of the messaging and people are getting (02:54:08) banned for all sorts of reason and the (02:54:10) government gets its hand on that that's (02:54:11) the whole other big issue but letting um (02:54:15) uh you know Nazis and all sorts of other (02:54:18) crazy people rant on it I don't think (02:54:20) it's that helpful um how do you deter (02:54:23) what's a lie yeah this is again the (02:54:25) metaphysical problem of truth I have a (02:54:27) whole metaphysics thing on Truth should (02:54:28) I describe it to you well well so let's (02:54:32) truth is a v is a vague concept you got (02:54:33) to you said you can't let people do (02:54:36) things that are a lie if lies are hard (02:54:37) to pin down which I think they are then (02:54:40) what would you want him to do other than (02:54:42) Community notes which seems from where (02:54:44) I'm sitting I think Community notes is a (02:54:45) good one look here's where I'm excited (02:54:48) um uh let me focus on that part of it (02:54:51) Elon has there was a there was a segment (02:54:54) he did with on the Allin podcast he was (02:54:56) on it a few months ago which I found (02:54:57) really I loved it which was he said (02:54:59) we're going for you could go for a base (02:55:02) hit feature that you add or you can go (02:55:03) for a home run feature and the hell with (02:55:05) the basics we're going for some home (02:55:07) runs and we're going to not we're going (02:55:08) to strike out a bunch of times if you go (02:55:10) for home run but once in a while we'll (02:55:12) hit it right and we're making a bet (02:55:13) we're going for the home run I love that (02:55:15) metaphor for product development because (02:55:17) it means things move and improve improve (02:55:19) much more quickly I think where I would (02:55:21) like to see him take Twitter is put in (02:55:23) the the oversight and the censorship (02:55:26) call it whatever you may to make sure (02:55:28) that accurate speech and hate speech is (02:55:30) not on there etc etc that's one how you (02:55:33) do that as a gray area and it's hard to (02:55:35) do that but where I'm would be (02:55:36) incredibly excited I'm hoping he does (02:55:39) this is please give every Twitter or ex (02:55:42) user a crypto wallet and open that up (02:55:47) and that I think will change the world (02:55:48) world that I think is where things get (02:55:50) really interesting because it'll be (02:55:52) instantly the biggest crypto community (02:55:53) in the world in one shot he'll be the (02:55:55) biggest bank in the world in one shot (02:55:58) I'm sure that they're looking at it and (02:56:00) the question is how to do that and at (02:56:02) the what level would do that that's (02:56:03) where I think things become really (02:56:05) interesting and when I think about him (02:56:06) making the comment about home run type (02:56:08) stuff that's where I would like to see (02:56:09) it go that would be huge yeah the whole (02:56:12) idea though of accurate speech and hate (02:56:14) speech does this minus AI does this not (02:56:19) seem like an impossible problem I I (02:56:22) actually don't see a solution it's a (02:56:24) very hard problem you need AI to deal (02:56:26) with this so the the as we mentioned (02:56:29) when Peter and I were on the second (02:56:31) place prize in visioneering the second (02:56:33) best idea was an AI truth agent that (02:56:36) would basically scan and say this is (02:56:38) real or this is fake or not and tell you (02:56:40) what was the mechanism we don't know but (02:56:42) that was why you need next prize is to (02:56:44) say here's a prize of $10 million and (02:56:46) anybody you can create AI it was the (02:56:48) that will you guys were voting on an X (02:56:49) prise to create that's right got it and (02:56:52) and every year we get together with 300 (02:56:53) of the top impact folks in the world you (02:56:56) should come to it if nothing by the by (02:56:58) your name and so on and we debate and (02:57:00) have contests on how to an internal (02:57:03) discussion on what prizes should we be (02:57:05) trying to fund and get funded what (02:57:06) problems should we be trying to solve (02:57:09) that the markets won't cover governments (02:57:11) won't aren't dealing with it Etc and um (02:57:15) the second place one was the the AI (02:57:17) truth about the one that I nominated a (02:57:19) few years ago that came in second place (02:57:21) was an off-grid energy storage 50 times (02:57:24) cheaper than today's battery (02:57:26) storage if you could do that then you (02:57:28) could un unleash decentralized energy (02:57:32) anywhere in the world so that was the (02:57:34) one but unfortunately I came up in the (02:57:36) finals against frell Williams yeah very (02:57:39) hard to compete with a rapper rapper on (02:57:41) stage I don't I don't have the I don't (02:57:44) have that kind of presence you're not (02:57:45) going to be dropping an album anytime (02:57:46) soon (02:57:48) so it was great yeah no I've actually (02:57:51) been to them before they are pretty (02:57:53) extraordinary events one of my favorite (02:57:55) um events of the year every year Peter (02:57:57) Peter's done an amazing job very proud (02:58:00) to have him as a partner and close (02:58:01) friend Etc ni love the human all right (02:58:04) so this is an incredible moment of (02:58:06) disruption yes I would be remiss with (02:58:08) somebody with your business experience (02:58:10) not asking how do people take advantage (02:58:11) of this moment how do they create the (02:58:13) next billion dollar company with three (02:58:15) people if that's the way to play it yeah (02:58:17) so uh um the UN this is going to sound (02:58:21) like a commercial but you have to build (02:58:23) an EXO a decentralized scalable (02:58:25) resilient organization with a very small (02:58:27) feature footprint with an MTP so you (02:58:29) have a huge purpose and we've written (02:58:32) the book on how to do it uh there's (02:58:34) millions of people now following that (02:58:35) methodology and I think because that (02:58:37) gives you the maximum flexibility when (02:58:39) something new comes along you can adapt (02:58:41) right and this is what needs to happen (02:58:43) going forward our government departments (02:58:45) need to be restructured as as exos and (02:58:48) that start starting to happen in (02:58:49) different places um and we've gone (02:58:52) through the big episode we're going (02:58:53) through the attributes so people should (02:58:54) go look that up if they want to (02:58:56) understand the model it's we go into a (02:58:58) pretty deep you don't have to buy the (02:59:00) book or anything you just re hear that (02:59:02) episode um but I think what needs to (02:59:04) happen is for Value Creation in the (02:59:06) future you have to pick up an idea go (02:59:10) execute on it very quickly and harness (02:59:13) it and apply AI to the everything from (02:59:15) the get-go I'm actually advising one of (02:59:17) the um for one of the big four (02:59:20) consulting firms accounting firms right (02:59:22) now on how do you restructure completely (02:59:24) from the bottom up audit tax because as (02:59:28) blockchains come along and AIS come (02:59:30) along you don't need an audit function (02:59:31) in the future right so that's going to (02:59:33) be really interesting what do they do so (02:59:35) there's huge business disruption coming (02:59:37) unlike anything we've ever seen it's (02:59:39) super exciting when I first wrote the (02:59:41) book 10 years ago this was a really hard (02:59:44) conversation because you could it wasn't (02:59:46) obvious Tesla hadn't really made a big (02:59:48) difference (02:59:49) Etc uh 5 years ago was a much easier (02:59:52) conversation I could say look at the way (02:59:53) Tesla has disrupted the car industry and (02:59:56) tell me why this won't happen to your (02:59:57) industry and now with AI this is a super (03:00:00) easy conversation thankfully we were way (03:00:03) too early writing the book uh but now (03:00:05) it's the right time because every CEO in (03:00:07) the world needs to now go am I AI ready (03:00:11) and what do I do and AI is not so much (03:00:13) the tools is the culture of my (03:00:15) organization is the setup of my business (03:00:17) able to take advantage of what's coming (03:00:19) in Ai and the answer for the vast (03:00:21) majority is no and so how do you (03:00:23) restructure yourself to take advantage (03:00:26) of AI tools that are coming that's my (03:00:28) question how do you get AI already oh so (03:00:30) what you do there's a very clear answer (03:00:32) what you do is you do a u grab some AI (03:00:36) experts that you know and get do a quick (03:00:38) audit of your Sy your structures and (03:00:40) there's two levels there's the (03:00:41) technological stuff of could I add AI to (03:00:43) generate more content marketing could I (03:00:45) use AI to figure out uh more supply (03:00:47) chain Improvement whatever so that's the (03:00:49) functional tool mechanism the bigger (03:00:51) question is how do I solve the immune (03:00:53) system problem in my company because you (03:00:55) PR anything disruptive and all the (03:00:56) middle management goes get becomes very (03:00:59) French and says no no no papa we can't (03:01:01) do those things we're special and now (03:01:03) you have to overcome the cultural Legacy (03:01:05) in your organization and we've actually (03:01:08) solved that problem we actually piloted (03:01:11) with Proctor and Gamble um in 2015 a (03:01:14) 10we engagement that we run inside (03:01:15) companies called an EXO Sprint there (03:01:18) designed to break this immune system (03:01:20) problem and and we found a way of (03:01:22) hacking culture at scale so we ran this (03:01:24) 10-e engagement and it worked really (03:01:26) well in fact it worked so well I thought (03:01:28) maybe we got lucky maybe we caught them (03:01:30) at the right time they're pretty (03:01:31) Advanced so we did it a second time with (03:01:33) the largest insurance company in Mexico (03:01:35) family-owned regulated insurance was (03:01:37) pretty backward anyway and it worked (03:01:39) even better so we got excited we've now (03:01:41) done it 60 times with big companies (03:01:44) around the world HP Visa Black & Decker (03:01:47) Etc and we found a way (03:01:48) of running a 10we engagement it's like (03:01:50) we introduce a viral Meme and it (03:01:52) completely starts to spread and it (03:01:54) changes the culture inside the company (03:01:56) then you've got the soil laid down so (03:01:58) that when something disruptive comes you (03:02:00) can bring it in more easily is this a (03:02:02) good time for a firsttime entrepreneur (03:02:04) like is there a way for them to read (03:02:06) this situation best time ever to be an (03:02:08) entrepreneur in the history of the world (03:02:10) because they can pick up an to pick up (03:02:12) the purpose that they want to go after (03:02:14) cure cancer they can go okay let me go (03:02:17) figure out what the business model is (03:02:18) and how I apply AI to it and boom off (03:02:20) you go it's like it's the best time ever (03:02:23) you have to have nerves of Steel yeah (03:02:26) because you have to have you can have (03:02:29) radical competition coming to you within (03:02:31) three weeks of your launch but this is (03:02:33) the best time to be an entrepreneur okay (03:02:35) so I teach beginning entrepreneurs a lot (03:02:38) and I know the deer and headlights look (03:02:39) they would give me if I gave that answer (03:02:41) so how do you read this moment because (03:02:45) you made a comment earlier that I think (03:02:46) bear is repeating which is (03:02:49) in the game of AI by the time you (03:02:51) implement and put it out AI is going to (03:02:53) have updated yeah and Sam Alman himself (03:02:55) said there's two kinds of companies (03:02:57) those that are excited for us to launch (03:02:59) the next version and the other kind that (03:03:01) are like please for the love of God like (03:03:03) I just got this in you're going to break (03:03:04) my business yes how do people make sure (03:03:06) that they're structuring their business (03:03:08) they're a firsttime entrepreneur this (03:03:09) not big companies yeah how do they (03:03:11) structure their business in such a way (03:03:13) where they've picked a business Lane a (03:03:15) business model where they want GTP 5 6 7 (03:03:18) 10 20 let's pick an example let's pick (03:03:23) um a marketing agency okay so you can do (03:03:28) some amazing things with AI with (03:03:29) marketing agency today you can do new AI (03:03:33) delivered content creation for your (03:03:35) clients and what I would do first is (03:03:38) upscale all of your employees and get (03:03:40) them trained up (03:03:42) on stability Ai and all the latest Sora (03:03:45) all the all the tools and give them AI (03:03:47) so enable them (03:03:49) second thing you do is you start running (03:03:52) uh radical campaigns with your clients (03:03:54) using AI because you can do external (03:03:56) Market testing in a really powerful way (03:03:58) with AI Bots and AI agents today the (03:04:01) third thing you do is you start building (03:04:02) agents to replicate some of the other (03:04:04) parts of your system like the accounting (03:04:06) and the the invoice management and (03:04:09) things like that and if you do that (03:04:10) layered on Chach PT the agents will will (03:04:13) naturally click to the new model (03:04:16) underlying llm when they're ready but (03:04:18) you should build or buy the agents that (03:04:21) you need in your business so the future (03:04:23) as I see it of a business will be very (03:04:25) few employees a bunch of AI agents (03:04:27) running around doing things layered on (03:04:29) top of a basic foundational llm open (03:04:32) source I probably to navigate some of (03:04:36) that so let's apply this to say (03:04:38) Healthcare you'll have a healthcare llm (03:04:40) and on top of that you'll build a bunch (03:04:41) of agents to do patient data Gathering (03:04:44) and invoicing of patients you'll create (03:04:47) a subscription model (03:04:48) for your people so that you keep them on (03:04:51) on track and you say I'm just going to (03:04:52) give you just keep sending me your (03:04:54) personal data off your Fitbit I'm going (03:04:55) to track it all and I'm going to give (03:04:56) you um our AIS are going to track your (03:04:58) health in real time and we'll be (03:05:00) unbelievably confidential about all this (03:05:03) and when you need something we're going (03:05:04) to send it to you before you think you (03:05:05) need it and that kind of a business (03:05:07) could be run largely with AI today even (03:05:10) I have a hypothesis that this moment now (03:05:14) more than ever is going to be brutally (03:05:17) difficult ult for entrepreneurs to get (03:05:21) something off the ground because it will (03:05:23) be very cheap and inexpensive to start a (03:05:25) company and extremely important that (03:05:28) your idea is so differentiated that even (03:05:32) though a ton of other people have access (03:05:34) to all the same AI that you do you still (03:05:36) stand Head and Shoulders above but this (03:05:37) is why the MTP becomes so important (03:05:40) right because the fundamental passion (03:05:42) that you bring to the table is the thing (03:05:44) that will set you apart okay um Peter (03:05:47) has has a huge passion for having AB (03:05:51) entrepreneurs deliver abundance nothing (03:05:53) will swerve them off that goal no AIS (03:05:55) will swerve them off that goal uh same (03:05:57) with Elon trying to get to space he will (03:05:59) just do whatever it takes to get there (03:06:01) and then I think everything becomes an (03:06:03) enabler for that the the minute an (03:06:05) entrepreneur is building a business (03:06:07) because he wants to do it for the money (03:06:08) is a is a death Nowell right they'll do (03:06:10) it because they love that problem that (03:06:12) problem solved they want that problem (03:06:14) solved so if my MTP is to cure cancer if (03:06:17) somebody else comes long and does it I'm (03:06:18) happy in a sense but there's going to be (03:06:20) a lot of room to play in different (03:06:23) aspects of that problem right the the (03:06:25) work that you're doing here at impact (03:06:27) Theory and propagating wonderful new (03:06:29) ideas and getting the word out to a very (03:06:31) large population is some of the most (03:06:33) important work we could do in the world (03:06:35) because we have to get these some of (03:06:37) these ideas propagated and shift people (03:06:39) from old thinking to new thinking right (03:06:42) the psychedelics as we've talked about (03:06:43) before is is one way of doing it but the (03:06:46) faster people can adopt and try things (03:06:48) and experiment with things the better (03:06:49) and and how do you bring in a culture of (03:06:51) experimentation into your question so um (03:06:55) the uh one of the companies we advise (03:06:58) and we're partnered with this called MBO (03:07:00) Partners out of out of um um the US what (03:07:03) they do is they help people manage all (03:07:04) their contractors so today if you're a (03:07:06) big company you have like 5% contractors (03:07:09) in your community in your employee base (03:07:11) it should be like 30% because the (03:07:12) freshness of new skills new ideas (03:07:14) diversity Etc and so they actually (03:07:17) manage man in all the Outsourcing and (03:07:19) onboarding offboarding Etc and I think (03:07:22) that's going to be a model where future (03:07:23) where the actual reality what is a (03:07:25) company becomes less more and more (03:07:27) blurred between an AI agent outsourc (03:07:29) Workforce distributed work being done (03:07:32) elsewhere and then what's your core (03:07:34) offering even becomes more blurred but (03:07:36) one thing we were very clear about and (03:07:38) goes back to your horizon thing that I (03:07:40) mentioned (03:07:42) is if you see what happened in the in (03:07:44) the music industry where we were selling (03:07:46) scarcity selling cassette or DVD or CD (03:07:50) um and then you had about eight or so (03:07:53) major music studios trying to manage (03:07:54) that industry and manage that scarcity (03:07:56) then we digitize music and now we have a (03:07:59) subscription model of abundance where (03:08:01) iTunes and Spotify give you an abundance (03:08:03) of music for a subscription fee that we (03:08:06) that business model we see happening in (03:08:08) healthc care and in education and in (03:08:10) transportation and in energy and that's (03:08:13) a very very different business model and (03:08:15) so the way to do that if your legacy is (03:08:17) try out these new business models on the (03:08:18) edge and then let the center deprecate (03:08:21) and gravitate to the new model and we've (03:08:24) got lots of evidence and experience and (03:08:26) anecdotes about that or uh if you're an (03:08:28) entrepreneur build go straight to one of (03:08:30) these new models and build it so I'll (03:08:32) give you an example if I had to suggest (03:08:35) a business for you and and maybe for (03:08:37) Lisa would be create an Amazon Prime for (03:08:39) healthcare and wellness right where I (03:08:42) pay a subscription fee somebody's (03:08:44) curating all the stuff that needs to (03:08:45) happen I send you my medical data once (03:08:47) in a while you just tell me here just (03:08:48) take two of these in the morning do and (03:08:51) don't even think about it just do this I (03:08:53) would love that and once we know from (03:08:55) Amazon Prime that once you subscribe you (03:08:57) never unsubscribe because the value is (03:08:59) just too great and you just deliver so (03:09:00) much value and now you have um very (03:09:03) steady Revenue numbers coming in that's (03:09:05) a no-brainer for me that's a great (03:09:08) example of one of the Futures with AI (03:09:10) you've got all these Nanobots running (03:09:12) around your body they're sending info to (03:09:14) your fridge do we have this no your (03:09:15) fridge now if you had a model like that (03:09:17) right the more you add AI it doesn't (03:09:19) disrupt the business it doesn't disrupt (03:09:21) the business model you're just adding (03:09:22) more and more value to it you're just (03:09:24) getting better in the flow the data is (03:09:26) better and cleaner etc etc yeah facts (03:09:29) think like a Sci-Fi writer when trying (03:09:31) to launch your next business I have (03:09:33) ultimate respect for sci-fi writers it's (03:09:35) an incredibly hard job ones are worth (03:09:36) their weight and gold I want to say (03:09:38) something it's the darkest most (03:09:40) horrifying thing that I will have said (03:09:41) today and I said a Litany of horrifying (03:09:44) things and that is and strike me down if (03:09:46) you disagree (03:09:48) if you're an entrepreneur you have one (03:09:50) job and one job only and that is to (03:09:52) solve novel problems okay now the bad (03:09:55) news okay the hardest thing in the world (03:09:57) is to solve novel problems yes and this (03:09:59) is where I see everybody fail and I see (03:10:01) people taking uh courses on how to (03:10:05) integrate AI courses on how to Market (03:10:08) courses on how (03:10:10) toop hang on hang on okay let me (03:10:12) challenge you give me an example of a (03:10:13) novel problem word all right if you try (03:10:16) to integrate AI in fact I'm I'm going to (03:10:18) look right into the camera if you try to (03:10:19) integrate AI right now today boys and (03:10:21) girls you are going to be sadly (03:10:23) disappointed because that is not (03:10:24) ready for prime time in (03:10:27) 99.999% of times however what he said (03:10:30) earlier about being AI ready now that's (03:10:33) special the problem is that most people (03:10:36) are not going to know how to navigate (03:10:38) through the very novel problem of (03:10:40) integrating AI either into your startup (03:10:43) or into your very robust company because (03:10:46) how do you deal with an immune system (03:10:48) as you know fir that is brutal and (03:10:50) you left Yahoo because the immune system (03:10:54) was too big of a pain in the ass to deal (03:10:55) with but I just finished telling you we (03:10:57) solved that problem in fact we've open (03:10:58) sourced the methodology so that anybody (03:11:00) can pick up the methodology and go run (03:11:02) this system it's a redot Ty model if (03:11:04) they want to run it themselves can no no (03:11:06) they are you telling me that a guy with (03:11:08) an 85 IQ is going to be able to pull (03:11:09) that off wait I'm talking about a (03:11:12) company yeah you and me both yeah so if (03:11:14) you're we now have lots of successful (03:11:17) examples (03:11:18) 70 plus and you're saying none of those (03:11:20) people know how to solve problems they (03:11:21) just paint by numbers with your system (03:11:24) well what they do is when you change the (03:11:26) culture in a company and make it more (03:11:28) adaptable and flexible well this is what (03:11:30) should I describe how it works you can (03:11:32) but the punchline for me is going to be (03:11:34) the same that will be so messy in the (03:11:36) middle of actually doing it that getting (03:11:39) to the other side of that is about (03:11:41) solving ala problems because one of the (03:11:42) problems is going to be Sally in (03:11:44) accounting her mom is dying of cancer (03:11:47) and she now being a real stick in the (03:11:49) mud and she is freaking the out and (03:11:51) you're like why is she responding like (03:11:52) this this is super weird so you pull Sal (03:11:55) aside and you say hey this isn't like (03:11:58) you to have this kind of really negative (03:12:00) response I can tell you're very worried (03:12:01) about something I would just love to (03:12:03) hear you walk me through what the (03:12:04) problem is that alone is difficult to do (03:12:07) to recognize that Sal's creating a (03:12:09) problem to have mapped her history out (03:12:10) and be like that's not how she normally (03:12:12) is to pull her aside and definitely (03:12:14) handle that situation entrepreneurship (03:12:16) is a Litany of getting kicked in the (03:12:18) face and because I'm working with (03:12:20) beginning entrepreneurs right now who (03:12:21) are trying to build the next great thing (03:12:22) on AI and I watch one after another (03:12:24) after another get kicked in the face (03:12:27) over and over and over because they have (03:12:28) a chicken and egg problem hey I want to (03:12:29) create this amazing thing using AI hey (03:12:31) AI is not quite there it's not quite (03:12:32) giving me the thing and then they're (03:12:34) like okay this is going to take me a lot (03:12:36) longer to build let's say it's going to (03:12:37) take me three years to build this and oh (03:12:38) wait I need to attract either capital or (03:12:41) co-founders but Tom I don't know how to (03:12:42) attract AI product guy today yes and (03:12:45) then I say oh by the way finding a (03:12:46) co-founder is like finding a marriage (03:12:48) you have to be really thoughtful oh my (03:12:49) God I just got a (03:12:50) divorced it it is really easy for us to (03:12:55) sit here and say oh go do this that's (03:12:58) why if you disagree and you think no (03:13:00) solving Nel problems is a joke this is (03:13:02) paint by numbers world now this is so (03:13:03) easy cool strike me down and tell me (03:13:05) that I'm crazy okay but so so I'm not (03:13:07) convinced yet um have I given you my (03:13:09) turtle eggs analogy for startups turtle (03:13:12) eggs yeah no so I look at startups as a (03:13:15) a turtle laying 200 eggs in a nest (03:13:18) right then she runs off and maybe only (03:13:20) 150 of them hatch for whatever reason I (03:13:22) have 150 little turtles running to the (03:13:24) if this ends with me being able to run (03:13:25) away from my company and it just grows I (03:13:27) here for this I'm talking something else (03:13:30) uh these are 100 little 200 little (03:13:31) startups as the turtle EGS so now (03:13:33) they're running towards the water and (03:13:34) the fish are eating the birds are eating (03:13:36) them animals are eating them they're (03:13:37) getting stuck in crevices they get into (03:13:39) the water now the fish are eating them (03:13:41) and only five will get to the bottom and (03:13:43) the difficulty with the startups in (03:13:45) general is that when you look at the (03:13:47) original Nesta 200 it doesn't matter how (03:13:50) smart you are it's really hard to figure (03:13:52) out which five of those eggs are the (03:13:53) ones going to make it to the bottom okay (03:13:55) it's a number of game is Elon just (03:13:56) getting (03:13:57) lucky he's done it over he's lucky but (03:14:00) he's also working unbelievably hard and (03:14:03) he brings first principles to play there (03:14:05) you go so that's really do you know what (03:14:07) first principles allow you to do not (03:14:10) solve no problems I totally got that but (03:14:13) the problem with so here's my (03:14:15) interpretation of how Elon works it's (03:14:17) very he looks at a technology that's (03:14:18) growing exponentially solar energy brain (03:14:20) Computing interfaces whatever where will (03:14:22) that technology be on a 10-year price (03:14:24) point in a 10-e performance curve and (03:14:26) then build a company to intercept that (03:14:28) curve because it kind of takes 10 years (03:14:30) to build a global company having that (03:14:32) company survive that 10 years is no (03:14:34) trivial matter because you have to go (03:14:35) through all sorts of difficult (03:14:36) Shenanigans fundraising Etc get there (03:14:39) but if you can get there then you catch (03:14:41) the technology as TR accelerating and (03:14:42) boom off you go that's why I think he (03:14:45) does he he just does that again and (03:14:47) again and again (03:14:48) okay and he doesn't he has the ability (03:14:50) to just so that exponential mindset (03:14:52) allows him to operate and navigate in (03:14:54) this way the me we've actually laid out (03:14:57) in chapter 15 of the book a very clear (03:15:00) prescriptive path on how to build a (03:15:01) company you create an MTP you go find (03:15:04) communities that match your concerns (03:15:05) like curing cancer go join meetups or (03:15:07) whatever from that Community you create (03:15:09) a founding team of people that share (03:15:11) your vision and share the MTP typically (03:15:14) four people a vision guy a product guy (03:15:16) an engineering guy and a finance guy (03:15:18) maybe you need three in the future but (03:15:20) okay four then at step four you come up (03:15:23) with your breakthrough idea uh which (03:15:25) should be 10 times better than the (03:15:26) status quo or 10 times different or (03:15:29) better or whatever because if you're 10% (03:15:31) better they'll ignore you 10 times (03:15:33) better they can't ignore you then you (03:15:34) follow Lean Startup thinking come up (03:15:36) with your MVP then you follow the rest (03:15:38) of the EXO model and apply all the EXO (03:15:40) attributes tried and true we've now seen (03:15:43) thousands and thousands of entrepreneurs (03:15:45) running this model very very (03:15:46) successfully they have to go through (03:15:48) that order you have to have your MTP (03:15:50) because if you're not passionate about (03:15:51) that business you won't succeed through (03:15:53) all the very very difficult times now (03:15:55) you make a very valid point which is (03:15:57) that the AI Juggernaut and the it's kind (03:16:01) of washing through a whole bunch of (03:16:02) stuff is coloring and tainting a lot of (03:16:05) these functions in these steps because (03:16:07) people have to deploy it they don't know (03:16:09) quite how to deploy it the models are (03:16:11) not ready for Prime Time use it's not (03:16:13) off the shelf in many cases do you then (03:16:15) go build your own llm how do you get the (03:16:17) source data where do you steal it from (03:16:20) what what legal uh quanties you're (03:16:22) getting yourself into and Hazard legal (03:16:24) Hazard there Etc and then you're trying (03:16:26) to get to some what the hell does the (03:16:27) customer want and the customer is (03:16:29) totally confused today right and that's (03:16:31) maybe the biggest problem of the future (03:16:33) that I see coming that the consumer does (03:16:35) not know what they want and so they'll (03:16:37) go back to the old things so I think (03:16:40) this is a very very difficult time but (03:16:43) that's when you have the biggest (03:16:44) opportunity for (03:16:46) disruption and I think that's what will (03:16:48) carry people through so but the AI ready (03:16:51) question is the question now applying to (03:16:54) every single business and nonprofit in (03:16:56) the world because they could radically (03:16:58) transcend and transform their (03:17:00) performance but they need to figure out (03:17:02) how to do (03:17:03) it s tell people where they can learn (03:17:06) more from your beautiful there'll be (03:17:08) Links at the bottom I'm at open expo.com (03:17:10) I'm in the community um and we do we (03:17:13) meetups every week on how do you solve (03:17:15) for these problems and get through some (03:17:16) of this we're putting a workshop (03:17:18) together out of demand from our (03:17:19) community saying I need how to be AI (03:17:21) ready so we're crafting a halfday (03:17:23) workshop that will give everybody a (03:17:26) clear strategic path uh down because the (03:17:28) problem today is twofold one is people (03:17:30) are jumping into AI without realizing it (03:17:32) and dashing themselves on rocks because (03:17:34) I haven't seen clearly where the Deep (03:17:35) spots are so how can you make sure (03:17:37) you're not doing that and secondly how (03:17:39) do you solve the immune system problem (03:17:40) and the cultural Readiness of your (03:17:42) company to be ready for this so if you (03:17:45) can navigate that and we do a quick (03:17:46) Workshop to gauge your Readiness then we (03:17:49) can point you down a path and you can (03:17:51) then start putting building blocks into (03:17:53) place so we're starting to do that now I (03:17:55) love it yeah plus the nft collection (03:17:57) which is going to be huge what's it (03:17:58) called it's called EXO Heroes there it (03:18:01) is and um it's going to be an ordinal (03:18:02) collection for all the builders in the (03:18:05) world that are building this Edge stuff (03:18:07) and so that's an area which I'd love to (03:18:09) have a other conversations with you (03:18:11) about because you've got really great (03:18:12) experience in this I mean let me show (03:18:14) you this like this was put together by (03:18:15) our community members it's a whole kids (03:18:18) book called Sophie's epic space mission (03:18:21) on how one of our EXO Heroes helped her (03:18:23) do this they did this in 40 hours the (03:18:26) whole book AI generation story creation (03:18:28) animation Etc that's creativity now (03:18:31) because that's what I think AI allows (03:18:33) you to do it just amps your game this (03:18:35) would have taken 40 weeks 10 years ago (03:18:38) and now it's 40 hours right so I think (03:18:40) it's magical what's going to come in the (03:18:42) future I can't I can't wait I love it (03:18:45) again I have my optimism that we'll have (03:18:47) to deal with no totally get it all right (03:18:50) everybody if you haven't already be sure (03:18:52) to subscribe and until next time my (03:18:53) friends be legendary take care peace if (03:18:56) you enjoyed this episode be sure to (03:18:58) check out this other conversation with (03:19:00) Peter diamandis you're living through an (03:19:02) inflection point in human evolution (03:19:04) between Tech like AI Quantum Computing (03:19:07) and biotech the next decade will bring (03:19:09) about more dramatic changed in the last (03:19:12) 100 or even 200 years combined