Scott Galloway: “78% Of Men Are In Crisis” How To Solve The Male Loneliness Epidemic (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) Men are struggling. Four times as likely (00:00:02) to kill themselves, three times [music] (00:00:03) as likely to be addicted or homeless, 12 (00:00:05) times as likely to be incarcerated. You (00:00:07) go into a morg and there's five people (00:00:08) died by suicide and four men. If it was (00:00:10) any other group, I think it'd weigh in (00:00:12) with programs and empathy. I think more (00:00:13) and more of them are going to be alone (00:00:15) in a room with a screen. (00:00:17) >> Scott's the host of the Profod [music] (00:00:18) and co-host the Pivot and Raging (00:00:20) Moderates podcast. He's a best-selling (00:00:22) author in his latest book, (00:00:23) >> Notes on Being a Man, is now the number (00:00:26) one bestseller [music] at Amazon. (00:00:28) >> Please welcome Scott Gallow. My biggest (00:00:30) fans are young men. My biggest (00:00:32) supporters are mothers [music] (00:00:33) >> cuz they see what's going on. The (00:00:35) greatest alliance in history is the (00:00:36) alliance between men and women. Why (00:00:38) would you go through the effort, the (00:00:39) expense, the potential rejection, (00:00:41) humiliation, effort when you have (00:00:43) synthetic lifelike porn at home? How do (00:00:46) they survive if you're not doing (00:00:48) anything except for consuming all day? (00:00:50) Just having men in your life that can (00:00:52) give you a little bit of advice and not (00:00:53) only that, just give you the sense you (00:00:55) have value. I've been investing in (00:00:56) stocks since I was 13 [music] because of (00:00:59) Sai Sarah. (00:01:00) >> Wow. (00:01:00) >> I've made tens of millions of dollars (00:01:02) investing in stocks. It taught me this (00:01:04) incredible life skill around investing. (00:01:06) What would you say are three things you (00:01:08) [music] would leave behind if this was (00:01:10) the last day on earth for you many years (00:01:12) away. The biggest unlock of my life was (00:01:14) the following. [music] (00:01:18) Welcome back everyone to the School of (00:01:20) Greatness. Very excited about our guest. (00:01:21) We have the inspiring Scott Galloway in (00:01:24) the house who is the number one New York (00:01:25) Times bestseller of Notes on Being a (00:01:28) Man. Welcome to the show, Scott. (00:01:30) >> Thanks. It's good to see you, man. (00:01:32) >> Excited that you're here. Congrats on (00:01:33) the book. (00:01:34) >> Thanks. (00:01:35) >> Uh we were talking beforehand about (00:01:37) that. I wrote a book called The Mask of (00:01:38) Masculinity (00:01:40) 7 years ago. Yeah. (00:01:41) >> That I think was ahead of its time, but (00:01:42) I think people really need to hear what (00:01:44) you're talking about today because (00:01:46) there's so much confusion (00:01:48) >> with men in society. And so I'm going to (00:01:50) give you a layup question. Okay. (00:01:52) >> To start, what is the role of men in (00:01:55) society today? (00:01:56) >> Well, I think that's the issue. I think (00:01:58) that the role was pretty clear. It was (00:02:00) sort of uh provider and procreator. And (00:02:04) now that a lot of the on-ramps into a (00:02:07) middle class lifestyle, a lot of the (00:02:08) traditional jobs, uh, we've basically (00:02:11) torn up the script for women and said (00:02:14) you can be anything. And women are (00:02:16) ascending. And that's fantastic. Twice (00:02:18) as many women have been elected to some (00:02:20) sort form of parliament globally in the (00:02:22) last 30 years. More women are now (00:02:23) seeking tertiary education globally than (00:02:25) men. Women in urban areas in the US are (00:02:28) making more money than men own more (00:02:30) single womenowned homes than men. And (00:02:33) these are all amazing. We should do (00:02:34) nothing to get in the way of that. But I (00:02:37) think sometimes the role of men is a (00:02:39) little bit confused now. Like what is my (00:02:42) role? And uh men, you know, there's just (00:02:44) no getting around it. men are (00:02:46) struggling. Four times as likely to kill (00:02:48) themselves, three times as likely to be (00:02:49) addicted or homeless, 12 times as likely (00:02:51) to be incarcerated. (00:02:52) So, I think the the question, what is a (00:02:56) man's role in this society is a little (00:02:58) bit up in the air right now. And uh I (00:03:01) think that's part of the issue is a lot (00:03:02) of men don't feel like they have a code. (00:03:04) They're not clear. (00:03:06) >> Yeah. They I think they some of them (00:03:07) lack purpose. And that is, you know, a (00:03:11) lot of the natural attributes they would (00:03:12) lean into, whether it's vocational work, (00:03:15) whether it's being the provider, whether (00:03:17) it's initiating romantic interest, I (00:03:20) don't want to say being the aggressor, (00:03:21) but the initiator, a lot of those things (00:03:23) are either not available, harder to (00:03:25) attain, or being frowned upon. So, what (00:03:28) is their role? And I mean, what happened (00:03:30) to auto, metal, and wood shop? Gone, (00:03:33) right? Mhm. (00:03:34) >> Um, if you think about what people are (00:03:37) looking for in terms of more women in (00:03:40) medical school, more women in law (00:03:41) school, and those are wonderful things, (00:03:43) but typically the job, remember that guy (00:03:45) in high school who was never going to go (00:03:47) to college or a lot of them, (00:03:48) >> but could fix your car? (00:03:49) >> Sure. (00:03:50) >> And would go on and actually make a (00:03:51) pretty decent living. (00:03:52) >> Yeah. (00:03:53) >> Uh, we have, we've essentially replaced (00:03:55) all those classes with computer science. (00:03:57) We've kind of gone all in on the guy who (00:04:00) goes to Harvard, drops out, and starts a (00:04:02) tech company. kind of the nation's been (00:04:03) optimized for that person and the (00:04:05) majority of men aren't aren't that (00:04:07) aren't that dude. In addition, fewer men (00:04:10) are going to religious institutions, (00:04:12) playing sports, connecting to work. (00:04:15) Remote work I think has been terrible. (00:04:17) Uh connecting to relationships and then (00:04:19) they're up against the deepest pocketed (00:04:22) companies with godlike technology really (00:04:24) trying to sequester them from the (00:04:27) offline world and relationships. And as (00:04:30) a result, I think you have a cohort of (00:04:33) young men who feel a little bit uh (00:04:36) untethered. (00:04:37) >> Their path is not as clear as it once (00:04:39) was. Don't have the same level of (00:04:42) opportunities that my generation had. (00:04:44) And some of it, to be clear, was (00:04:45) unearned advantage. I had too much (00:04:47) opportunity relative to other groups. (00:04:50) But if you know if any other group was (00:04:53) if you go into a morg and there's five (00:04:55) people that died by suicide and four men (00:04:57) if it was any other group I think weigh (00:04:59) in with programs and empathy but because (00:05:02) of the under advantage of my generation (00:05:05) there is a lack of empathy and the stat (00:05:06) that I remind people of I understand the (00:05:09) gag reflex when I talk about this and (00:05:11) that is (00:05:12) >> from 1945 to 2000 (00:05:15) a third of the world's economic growth (00:05:17) was registered by the 5% of the (00:05:19) population in America. So we had six (00:05:21) times the prosperity of the rest of the (00:05:22) world. So 6x. And then you take all that (00:05:25) prosperity and you cram it into the (00:05:26) one-third of the population that was (00:05:28) white male and heterosexual. (00:05:30) If you were I was kind of born on third (00:05:32) base. You know, my (00:05:34) >> rap till I was about your age was check (00:05:36) me out. I've overcome, (00:05:38) >> you know, I didn't have some of the same (00:05:40) advantages as my peers. But what I've (00:05:42) acknowledged now is that I really was (00:05:43) born on third base. My kind of identity, (00:05:45) demographics, and when and where I was (00:05:47) born. But unfortunately, I think society (00:05:50) is holding young men accountable for my (00:05:53) unfair advantage and they just don't (00:05:55) face the same opportunities. (00:05:56) >> They don't have the skills also, right? (00:05:58) It's like they don't have the skills to (00:06:00) face that unfair advantage, I guess, or (00:06:02) to manage it all (00:06:03) >> 100%. So, you know, I had to go into (00:06:06) work. (00:06:07) >> I had to put on a tie. Um, I had, you (00:06:10) know, I had guard rails set up for me. (00:06:13) And I think that I think remote work has (00:06:15) been an absolute disaster for young (00:06:17) people spec es especially men who quite (00:06:19) frankly mature later. And my first job (00:06:22) was in downtown LA at Morgan Stanley. If (00:06:24) I didn't have to get up at 7 a.m. put on (00:06:26) a tie, act a certain way, learn to (00:06:28) behave, I was constantly pulled out of (00:06:31) meetings by my boss who was a real (00:06:33) mentor and he would say just like don't (00:06:34) say that (00:06:36) >> like don't and I needed that. (00:06:38) >> And I learned how to interact with (00:06:39) people senior to me, more successful (00:06:41) than me. learned how to interact with a (00:06:43) boss, learned more about how to interact (00:06:45) with a w a woman in a professional (00:06:47) environment. You It was great seasoning (00:06:49) for me. And while I think remote work is (00:06:51) an unlock for people who are caregivers, (00:06:54) I think it's really a a negative for (00:06:56) young people and something we don't talk (00:06:58) about. One in three relationships begin (00:07:00) at work. So where do where do people (00:07:03) meet and develop friendships, (00:07:05) mentorships, and romantic relationships? (00:07:09) And the reality is men need young men (00:07:11) need romantic relationships or benefit (00:07:13) more from them than women. If a man (00:07:16) hasn't been in a hasn't been married or (00:07:18) cohabitated with a woman by the time (00:07:19) he's 30, there's a one in three chance (00:07:21) he's going to be a substance abuser. (00:07:23) There's this cartoon of a woman in her (00:07:24) Thursday 30s who never found romantic (00:07:27) love. The reality is she's okay. Women (00:07:30) when they don't have that rom a romantic (00:07:32) relationship often times pour that (00:07:34) energy back into friends and their (00:07:36) professional life. Men tend to pour it (00:07:39) back into more negative things or less (00:07:41) productive things. Online, (00:07:43) >> gaming, porn, oftentimes, unfortunately, (00:07:46) conspiracy theory, (00:07:48) >> so quite frankly, (00:07:49) >> gambling or something else, (00:07:50) >> gambling, drugs, whatever it might be, (00:07:52) >> that it takes on and manifests itself in (00:07:55) worse ways. So, a woman in a (00:07:57) relationship lives two to four years (00:07:59) longer than a man, I'm sorry, than a (00:08:01) woman not in a relationship, but a man (00:08:03) lives four to seven years longer. Widows (00:08:05) are happier after their husband dies. (00:08:07) Widows are less happy after their wife (00:08:09) dies. So, oddly enough, men benefit and (00:08:13) accrete more advantage in a relationship (00:08:16) than a woman does. Which isn't to say (00:08:18) women, nobody owes, you know, no, it's (00:08:21) no one's responsibility to service men (00:08:23) or provide them with romantic comfort (00:08:25) such that they don't become poor (00:08:27) citizens. But the reality is I do think (00:08:30) society and men of my generation have a (00:08:33) debt to pay. And that is to try and get (00:08:35) emotionally, logistically, and (00:08:37) economically involved in young people's (00:08:40) lives and level them up such that they (00:08:42) have some of the same opportunities that (00:08:44) my generation had. (00:08:45) >> Yeah. It's interesting because I saw (00:08:46) this um (00:08:48) this article on Vogue. The headline (00:08:51) says, "Is having a boyfriend (00:08:53) embarrassing now?" (00:08:55) >> Yeah. And you know, hearing these stats, (00:08:57) if I'm a woman, hearing these stats that (00:09:00) essentially I live longer without a man (00:09:02) in my life, you know, who knows the (00:09:04) context of all these things, but I also (00:09:06) I'm fine without a man in some ways. (00:09:09) >> Yeah. (00:09:10) >> Why should women get in a relationship (00:09:12) with a man if there's also benefit for (00:09:15) women being single? (00:09:17) >> Yeah. So there's unfortunately (00:09:20) I think that there's (00:09:21) >> besides having a family and raising (00:09:23) children and you know providing for (00:09:25) society in a different way obviously but (00:09:27) and not being alone your whole life (00:09:29) >> there's there's I think in online media (00:09:32) especially but all media there's a (00:09:33) romant romanticization of the (00:09:35) independent feminine strong woman and I (00:09:38) think a lot of that is really positive (00:09:40) but I also think it's created a culture (00:09:42) where it's sort of women are encouraged (00:09:45) to kind of be one striker out as a man. (00:09:48) Oh, he doesn't get along with his (00:09:50) parents. Red flag. Like every yellow or (00:09:52) magenta flag is a red flag. And you're (00:09:55) this strong, independent, beautiful (00:09:56) woman, and you don't need a man. (00:09:58) >> Mhm. (00:09:59) >> And whenever I ask for dating advice, (00:10:00) the advice I give to men is the first (00:10:03) thing I ask is, would you want to have (00:10:04) sex with you? (00:10:05) >> Are you in shape? Do you have a plan? (00:10:07) Are you kind? Are do you demonstrate (00:10:09) artisanship and interest in different (00:10:10) things? You know, how do you demonstrate (00:10:12) excellence? And the advice I would give (00:10:15) to women is what I call a second coffee. (00:10:16) And that is I think women are celebrated (00:10:19) for exiting relationships. You know, (00:10:21) inspiring Kylie Simon songs about (00:10:23) walking out on that man and you don't (00:10:25) need a man. And when surveys when men (00:10:28) are said when men are asked if a woman (00:10:31) had 80% of everything you want, would (00:10:34) that suffice for you? 75% of men say, (00:10:36) "Yeah, that'd be that'd be great." When (00:10:38) women presented with the same metric, (00:10:40) 80% of everything you want, 75% say (00:10:43) that's not enough. They need like 95% or (00:10:46) 100% of what they want. (00:10:47) >> Well, and again, I I think that (00:10:50) [clears throat] let me go straight to (00:10:51) the solve. The solve is for men to level (00:10:53) up. (00:10:53) >> Yes. (00:10:54) >> But if you look at kind of the content (00:10:56) of what algorithms like, it's a lot of (00:10:58) women saying like a basic standard (00:11:01) metric is because and I think it's (00:11:03) happened because of online dating where (00:11:04) the metrics get distilled down to some (00:11:05) very base crude things. Six feet six (00:11:08) figures. Like that's not a lot to ask, (00:11:10) right? Six feet, six figures. If you (00:11:13) take out married men, obese men, um, uh, (00:11:16) men under the age of over the age of 50, (00:11:18) it's 2% of the population. (00:11:20) >> Wow. (00:11:21) >> And if you talk to people who've been (00:11:23) married longer than 30 years, 80% of (00:11:26) them say one was much more interested in (00:11:28) the beginning than the other. And it was (00:11:31) almost always the man. The reality is, (00:11:33) listen, we're less choosy. If you have a (00:11:36) room with 100 people, 50 men and 50 (00:11:37) women, and there's alcohol involved, the (00:11:39) majority of the men would agree to have (00:11:41) sex with the majority of the women. The (00:11:42) majority of the women would sleep with (00:11:43) none of the men. (00:11:45) >> Women are choosier. And typically what's (00:11:47) happened in these relationships where (00:11:49) people end up together is the woman (00:11:51) says, "I wasn't initially that (00:11:53) interested, but I like the way he (00:11:55) treated his parents at church. (00:11:57) >> We hung out with the same friend group (00:11:59) and I found he was funny. I like the way (00:12:01) he danced. I like the way he smelt. I (00:12:03) found that he was really kind. I was so (00:12:05) impressed with him at work. He was (00:12:07) outstanding at what he does." Where does (00:12:09) a man, what venues now does a young man (00:12:11) have to demonstrate excellence? Right? (00:12:14) If they're not going to church, they're (00:12:16) not going to school, they're not going (00:12:17) to work, where do they have the (00:12:19) opportunity to develop the skills and (00:12:22) then demonstrate their strengths and (00:12:24) skills over time? And instead, it's kind (00:12:26) of been consolidated now to the one (00:12:28) medium where most people are mating or (00:12:31) finding dates, and that is um online. (00:12:34) And anytime you digitize any market, it (00:12:36) does become a winner take most (00:12:38) environment. (00:12:39) >> And then they're they're up against this (00:12:42) almost indomitable foe and that is 40% (00:12:46) of the S&P by market value now is (00:12:49) related to AI, the Magnificent 10. and (00:12:52) their objective. They're not malicious, (00:12:54) but unwittingly the algorithms have (00:12:56) figured out for every second we can take (00:12:58) someone out of the organic mamalia world (00:13:02) and put them on a screen, we can (00:13:04) monetize it. And the person who is most (00:13:07) susceptible to arbitrageing their real (00:13:10) life to an online life is a young man (00:13:13) because of a less mature prefrontal (00:13:15) cortex, the executive function, the (00:13:17) susceptibility to addiction around (00:13:19) constant dopa. (00:13:21) So ground zero for our economy right now (00:13:24) or monetizing our uh young people to (00:13:28) drive trillions of dollars in value is (00:13:32) essentially trying to sequester young (00:13:34) men from their relationships. So I worry (00:13:38) that at the hands of this godlike (00:13:39) technology regulated by paleolithic (00:13:42) instincts and medieval institutions that (00:13:45) we're evolving a new species of aso of (00:13:48) asocial asexual males. And my prediction (00:13:51) is [clears throat] unless we weigh in (00:13:53) with programs and regulate big tech, (00:13:55) when you go to malls, I'm doing a a live (00:13:59) podcast tonight with 2,000 people. I (00:14:02) think you are going to visibly see fewer (00:14:04) and fewer young men. I think they are (00:14:07) >> going out or going to events (00:14:09) >> going out in the real world. (00:14:10) >> Huh. (00:14:10) >> I think more and more of them are going (00:14:11) to be alone in a room with a screen. And (00:14:15) why go through the pecking order of (00:14:17) trying to establish friends when you (00:14:19) have Reddit and Discord? Why put on a (00:14:21) tie, show up, try and navigate the (00:14:23) difficulties and complexities of the (00:14:26) workplace when you think you can trade (00:14:27) stocks or crypto on Robin Hood or (00:14:29) Coinbase? And why would you go through (00:14:31) the effort, the expense, the potential (00:14:33) rejection, humiliation, effort, (00:14:35) perseverance, willingness to endure (00:14:38) rejection (00:14:39) >> involved in establishing a romantic or a (00:14:41) sexual relationship when you have (00:14:44) synthetic lifelike porn at home. (00:14:46) >> So I think we're going to have (00:14:49) essentially I mean there's now one out (00:14:51) of seven men are called needs. They're (00:14:52) neither in education (00:14:55) uh employment or in training. They're (00:14:57) literally doing nothing. And 63% of men (00:15:00) under the age of 30 aren't even trying (00:15:02) to date. (00:15:03) >> How do they survive if you're not doing (00:15:05) anything except for consuming all day (00:15:07) >> and you're not developing skills offline (00:15:10) or even online skills to create value in (00:15:13) the world? How are you surviving? Is it (00:15:15) just you're getting checks from the (00:15:16) government or your family or people (00:15:18) paying for them or how does this work? (00:15:20) >> It's a really good question. There are (00:15:21) government services, you know, (00:15:23) everything from SNAP to unemployment to (00:15:26) welfare to Medicaid. they, you know, (00:15:29) they got they, you know, had stimulus (00:15:31) checks during COVID. One out of three (00:15:33) men under the age of 25 is living at (00:15:34) their parents. (00:15:35) >> One out of five under the age of 30, at (00:15:38) 30, one in five men are still living at (00:15:39) home. (00:15:40) >> So, I think that some part-time work, (00:15:42) some government assistance, their (00:15:44) parents, but yeah, a lot of men and and (00:15:48) I wouldn't even say men because my kind (00:15:50) of my Yoda around all of this is Richard (00:15:51) Reeves. Have you had Richard on your (00:15:52) podcast? (00:15:53) >> So, Richard brings like the data and the (00:15:55) actual rigor. I'm just louder than him. (00:15:58) >> Yeah. (00:15:58) >> Um, but he has this great litmus test (00:16:02) for when a male becomes a man because I (00:16:04) do think a lot of males die never really (00:16:06) having become men. (00:16:08) >> When do when does a male become a man? (00:16:10) >> I love this term you use a surplus (00:16:12) value. When you approach relationships (00:16:14) from a generative [clears throat] uh (00:16:16) viewpoint. So, growing up, I say to my (00:16:20) boys, you're negative value right now. (00:16:22) You got a school spending a ton of time (00:16:24) and resources on you. Your parents are (00:16:25) giving you more love than you're giving (00:16:27) us. (00:16:27) >> Society is providing you with roads. If (00:16:29) you call 911, something's going to pick (00:16:31) up. You're not you're not generating any (00:16:32) tax revenue. You're just not adding (00:16:34) value. (00:16:34) >> You're negative value everywhere. (00:16:36) >> And at some point, I think when you (00:16:39) become a man, it's not when it's not (00:16:42) age. It's not some sort of religious (00:16:43) ceremony. It's when you are generating (00:16:46) more economic value than you're (00:16:47) absorbing. It's when you're noticing (00:16:49) people's lives and absorbing more (00:16:51) complaints than you're making. Quite (00:16:53) frankly, it's when you're giving more (00:16:55) love and more cloud cover for other (00:16:57) people than you have received. You're (00:17:00) adding surplus value is the term that (00:17:02) Richard uses, right? (00:17:03) >> Yes. (00:17:04) >> And I think a [clears throat] lot of a (00:17:06) lot of males never get there. Never get (00:17:08) I still have I still know people who (00:17:10) call their parents and complain when (00:17:12) their parents are 80. And it's like, (00:17:14) okay, at some point it needs to flip (00:17:17) where you're taking care of your (00:17:18) parents. And also I came to this (00:17:21) conclusion recognizing I I didn't really (00:17:24) by that standard become a man until I (00:17:26) was in my 40s because I used to be that (00:17:27) guy that approached every relationship (00:17:30) of if I wasn't getting more joy and (00:17:32) camaraderie from a friend than I was (00:17:34) giving. It was like I'm on the wrong (00:17:36) side of this capitalist trade and I'd (00:17:38) exit the friendship. (00:17:39) >> Interesting. If I spent time with my (00:17:41) girlfriend's parents when they were in (00:17:42) town, I would expect her to spend as (00:17:44) much or more time. If I was if I felt an (00:17:47) employee wasn't giving me a lot more (00:17:49) value than I was paying them, you know, (00:17:52) I'm think, okay, this isn't working and (00:17:53) I'd let them go. I was all about this (00:17:55) mindset of relationships as a (00:17:57) transaction. And then what I've come to (00:17:59) realize is like that's the opposite of (00:18:01) what it means to add surplus value and (00:18:03) be a man. That (00:18:04) >> the ultimate kind of limus test is first (00:18:07) you got to take care of yourself. You (00:18:08) got to fix your own g, you know, oxygen (00:18:09) mask. Then you take care of your family. (00:18:12) Then you take care of your community. (00:18:14) Ideally, take care of your country or (00:18:16) protect your country. And then the (00:18:17) ultimate expression, I think, of manhood (00:18:19) is you plant trees the shade of which, (00:18:22) you know, you'll never sit under. (00:18:24) >> Uh, so it's been a it's been a kind of a (00:18:27) journey for me. But I like the idea this (00:18:29) notion of surplus generative value in (00:18:31) relationships. (00:18:32) >> I love that. I used to think that you (00:18:35) become a a man and maybe it's more (00:18:37) emotionally or spiritually when you have (00:18:39) a child and when you lose your father (00:18:42) like you have to step into some type of (00:18:45) spiritual breakthrough and but then I (00:18:48) was like okay well anyone could have (00:18:49) kids they could just have lots of kids (00:18:50) but not really be there as a father as a (00:18:53) dad. So, uh, and when I lost my father a (00:18:57) few years ago, I really felt like, oh, (00:18:59) >> something shifted in me and I and I (00:19:01) almost I lost him mentally 20 years ago (00:19:04) when he went through a brain injury, he (00:19:06) had an accident and he he was alive (00:19:08) physically, but (00:19:09) >> emotionally he wasn't available. (00:19:11) >> He wasn't a provider anymore with (00:19:13) >> spiritual, emotional or financial (00:19:15) support. (00:19:16) >> Yeah. (00:19:17) >> So, it was more like I had to support (00:19:18) him and our family had to support him. (00:19:20) But then when he fully passed (00:19:22) physically, it's like something also (00:19:24) shifted at a whole another level of (00:19:25) like, oh, I really need to step into (00:19:28) this spiritual or psychological way of (00:19:31) being now because I can no longer rely (00:19:34) that my father's going to rescue me. (00:19:36) >> Yeah. (00:19:36) >> Even though he was here, (00:19:38) >> like maybe he could have bailed me out (00:19:39) some way, but no longer can my father (00:19:42) bail me out. (00:19:43) >> Yeah. And now having twins, it's like, (00:19:46) oh, I have to I get to continue to step (00:19:50) up as a man, continue to step up as a (00:19:53) >> a leader to myself, a leader to my (00:19:55) spouse, (00:19:56) >> a leader to our extended families (00:19:59) >> and provide (00:20:01) >> emotionally, spiritually, physically, (00:20:04) financially. (00:20:04) >> Yeah. (00:20:05) >> And continue to evolve. I can't be (00:20:09) >> I don't know. I I don't have the ability (00:20:11) anymore to act like a child. (00:20:14) >> Yeah. (00:20:14) >> You know what I mean? I can be childlike (00:20:16) energetically. (00:20:17) >> Yeah. (00:20:17) >> But I have to be able to provide a space (00:20:20) to serve and serve beyond me. (00:20:24) >> Obviously, I need to take care of me, (00:20:25) but the goal that I'm hearing you say is (00:20:28) how can we add way more value than we're (00:20:31) taking? And I think that is part of it. (00:20:34) So, I don't know what my, you know, (00:20:36) definition now is like or when you truly (00:20:38) become it. I don't know if you can truly (00:20:40) step into like manhood if your father's (00:20:43) still alive and if you don't have kids. (00:20:45) I don't know if there's still some like (00:20:46) childish boy energy until one of those (00:20:50) things happen, but (00:20:51) >> I don't know. What are your thoughts on (00:20:52) that? Today's show is brought to you by (00:20:54) Apple Watch. Knowing how you sleep is a (00:20:57) gamecher when it comes to overall (00:20:59) well-being, but for many, sleep and (00:21:01) sleep quality are a mystery. The new (00:21:04) Apple Watch Series 11 provides an easy (00:21:07) way to track and better understand the (00:21:09) quality of [music] your sleep. The sleep (00:21:11) score on Apple Watch helps you better (00:21:13) understand your sleep routine and help (00:21:15) to make it more restorative. [music] (00:21:17) Dive into factors like sleep duration, (00:21:20) bedtime consistency, how often you wake (00:21:23) up, and time spent in each sleep stage. (00:21:27) Apple Watch takes you from not knowing (00:21:30) to knowing. Find out more at (00:21:32) apple.com/applewatch (00:21:34) series 11 iPhone 11 or later required. (00:21:38) >> Yeah, I think there's a lot of people (00:21:39) become men who never have kids. So the (00:21:41) what you talked about kind of birth and (00:21:44) death are tremendous points of (00:21:46) inspiration to kind of grow up and start (00:21:48) behaving in a way that makes you men. (00:21:50) But I think a lot of people have kids (00:21:52) and never become men. (00:21:53) >> That's true. And a lot of people um you (00:21:56) know who have parents live well into (00:21:59) their 50s or 60s never never never (00:22:01) become a man. But what you say resonates (00:22:03) in the sense that I think of kind of the (00:22:04) two I would say what motivated me to be (00:22:07) a better man (00:22:08) >> and or get to manhood and they both (00:22:10) involve women and one's more (00:22:13) >> virtuous than the other and that is (00:22:15) >> when my mom I was kind of sleepwalking (00:22:17) through life didn't get my act together (00:22:19) till I was about 25 26 and my mom got (00:22:23) really sick and I didn't have the money (00:22:26) I uh she called me from graduate I was (00:22:28) in graduate school she'd had her second (00:22:31) mastctomy and discharged early from the (00:22:33) hospital, you know, because hospitals (00:22:35) are expensive. And she was at home and (00:22:37) she called me and said, "You need to (00:22:38) come home. I'm really in a bad way." My (00:22:40) mom was not dramatic. So, I got on a (00:22:42) flight back from Berkeley and I walked (00:22:45) into a situation, Louis, that I I just (00:22:47) didn't know how to deal with it. And I (00:22:48) and there's just certain things a a son (00:22:51) can't do for his mother. And I remember (00:22:53) think I need to get her a nurse. And I (00:22:55) called. The nurses were 35 bucks an hour (00:22:57) and I had about $700 in my name. And (00:22:59) just the shame. It's like, okay, I'm the (00:23:01) man. I'm I'm the only son, the only (00:23:04) child of a single immigrant mother (00:23:05) taking care of me my whole life. She's (00:23:08) really vulnerable right now, and I can't (00:23:10) live up to my expectations. (00:23:12) >> Yeah, that's tough. (00:23:13) >> That was really upsetting. And at that (00:23:15) moment, I decided, look, you can't (00:23:17) decide to be economically secure, but (00:23:19) you can decide to kind of go allin. (00:23:21) >> And that's when I really got my act (00:23:22) together and said, okay, you can't (00:23:24) control the the mark markets (00:23:26) individual dynamics. And there's some (00:23:28) exceptionally talented people that work (00:23:29) really hard their whole life and take (00:23:30) risks and never get there. (00:23:32) >> So you can't control that. But the (00:23:34) things you can control, I decided I was (00:23:35) going to work really hard. That was very (00:23:37) motivating for me. And then the other (00:23:40) thing is less virtuous. I noticed early (00:23:43) that (00:23:44) guys who had their together (00:23:46) professionally and economically, (00:23:48) >> they attracted more women, (00:23:49) >> seem to be attracting a broader (00:23:50) selection set of mates. (00:23:52) >> And I even saw it through UCLA. The (00:23:55) freshman were interested in guys that (00:23:57) were funny and cool and dressed well. (00:23:59) And by the time they were seniors, they (00:24:01) were very interested in that guy going (00:24:02) to medical school. (00:24:04) >> And we don't like to talk about this, (00:24:05) but women are attracted to men for three (00:24:07) reasons. The first is to signal (00:24:09) resources. And you don't have to show up (00:24:11) with a Range Rover or Panerai. You can (00:24:13) just be someone who has together. (00:24:14) It's like this guy's going to be a good (00:24:16) provider. Uh the second is humor. We (00:24:20) talked about this in the last one or (00:24:21) intellect. And then the third, and this (00:24:23) is I think is the most underleveraged (00:24:25) secret weapon in mating for a man is (00:24:28) kindness. And that is women (00:24:30) instinctively believe at some point (00:24:31) they'll be vulnerable because of (00:24:32) gestation or they're physically smaller. (00:24:34) So they're very drawn to men who (00:24:36) demonstrate kindness. And that is acts (00:24:38) of generosity with no reciprocal (00:24:40) expectation. (00:24:41) >> So and that's the most people most men (00:24:43) understand one and two, but what they (00:24:46) don't understand is they need a kindness (00:24:47) practice because I do think you can (00:24:48) learn kindness. It starts with manners. (00:24:50) But if you try to, you know, small acts (00:24:52) of generosity every day, I do think it (00:24:55) starts to become second second nature. (00:24:57) But I wanted to take care of my mom and (00:25:00) quite frankly, I wanted more dates. And (00:25:03) that was those both those things were (00:25:04) very motivating for me (00:25:06) >> to try and be a better man. And then (00:25:09) what you talked about having kids. (00:25:12) >> How old were you when you had kids? (00:25:13) >> I started late. I was 42. (00:25:15) >> Yeah. Me too. (00:25:16) >> You're (00:25:17) >> 42. (00:25:17) >> Oh, you're 42. (00:25:18) >> Just just had kids. (00:25:19) >> Yeah. you at 42 is a different look than (00:25:20) me at 42. [laughter] (00:25:22) Anyways, (00:25:24) um I but when my kid came marching or (00:25:28) had the poor judgment to come marching (00:25:29) out of my girlfriend, it was 2008 and I (00:25:32) had lost everything (00:25:33) >> right at the housing crisis. Yeah, (00:25:35) >> I had gone all gone all in. I I kind of (00:25:38) came at professional age in San (00:25:39) Francisco where you're supposed to go (00:25:40) allin, borrow money against your stocks. (00:25:44) >> And I you were kind of taught if you're (00:25:47) really talented, you're in it to win it (00:25:49) and you can, you know, I'm so awesome (00:25:51) that if I throw myself at something 100% (00:25:53) it's going to win. Not recognizing again (00:25:56) the power of diversity. So I've been (00:25:57) wealthy three times, which means I've (00:25:59) lost it twice. And I lost it in 2000. (00:26:03) Then I crawled my way back, had had a (00:26:06) kid and literally at that moment lost (00:26:08) everything because I was too stupid to (00:26:10) diversify. You book on money. I hadn't (00:26:12) learned the power of diversification. (00:26:14) And when my kid entered the world, it (00:26:17) wasn't bright lights and angels singing. (00:26:20) I literally felt anxiety and shame. I'm (00:26:22) like, not only have I screwed up for me, (00:26:25) but now I've screwed up for someone who (00:26:27) is totally dependent upon me. And (00:26:30) granted, I struggle with depression, so (00:26:31) I have a tendency to see dark things as (00:26:33) black. But I remember I was so nauseous (00:26:36) and so anxious that I had to sit down. (00:26:39) They were more worried about me, I (00:26:40) think, than the mother of the kid at (00:26:42) that point. And I couldn't say, "I feel (00:26:45) failure. I feel like I've already let (00:26:46) this thing down, you know, this." (00:26:48) >> So, for me, that was very motivating. I (00:26:51) think having kids is stressful. I'm not (00:26:53) saying it's for everybody, but it (00:26:55) definitely has made me a better man (00:26:56) because I want to model good behavior. (00:26:59) I take being a provider and a protector (00:27:01) much more seriously now. Uh, and so I I (00:27:05) do think, you know, this kind of the (00:27:07) three legs of the masculinity stool, (00:27:10) provider, protector, procreator, I do (00:27:12) think those are decent legs of the stool (00:27:14) and what you the skills and strengths (00:27:17) and attributes you want to develop to be (00:27:18) all three of those things are loosely (00:27:20) speaking uh what I believe it means to (00:27:23) be, you know, quite frankly masculine. (00:27:26) But the book is really more about where (00:27:29) I screwed up and what I learned from it (00:27:32) and tried to evolve around it. But yeah, (00:27:35) my um my first encounter I know you just (00:27:38) had twins. You're doing much better than (00:27:41) I was at that moment, but I felt a ton (00:27:44) of stress and anxiety, but it also was (00:27:46) very productive for me. And one of the (00:27:49) things I worry about with my kids is (00:27:50) that I didn't grow up with a lot, at (00:27:53) least not economically. And I always say (00:27:56) if I had what my kids have, I wouldn't (00:27:58) have what I have. And a lot of what I (00:28:00) think about is how do you instill that (00:28:02) sense of grit? And a little bit of fear (00:28:03) is probably good in kids. (00:28:06) >> Uh because the things that really (00:28:07) motivated me if I had what my kids have, (00:28:09) the only things I I know I would have (00:28:11) engaged in is like a Range Rover and a (00:28:12) cocaine habit. I'm a fundamentally lazy (00:28:14) person. When I was younger, I didn't (00:28:16) want to save the world. I wasn't kind. I (00:28:19) wasn't trying to add value. I wanted (00:28:21) economic security because an absence of (00:28:24) it had caused so much anxiety in my (00:28:26) life. And you know, I think that if you (00:28:30) if you grow up with money, did you grow (00:28:31) up with money? (00:28:32) >> No. (00:28:33) >> If people have money, I think they can (00:28:35) sympathize with people who don't. But I (00:28:39) don't really think they can fully (00:28:40) empathize cuz (00:28:43) it's as if like my mom and I had this (00:28:45) ghost following us around saying, (00:28:47) "You're not worthy. (00:28:49) >> Like you screwed up. you and your mom (00:28:50) screwed up. When I didn't get into UCLA (00:28:52) down the road, they had a 74% admissions (00:28:55) rate and I was one of the 26% that (00:28:56) didn't get in. I remember people I went (00:28:58) to my friend's parents and they knew I (00:29:01) hadn't gotten in. They're like, "You (00:29:02) should get on a plane tomorrow and go to (00:29:03) Michigan and show up at the admissions (00:29:04) office and you're so smart." And I'm (00:29:06) like, I'm like listening. I'm like, "Go (00:29:08) to Michigan. I don't have a credit card. (00:29:11) >> I don't I I've never I've been on a (00:29:13) plane like twice. We don't have that (00:29:16) kind of money. I can't afford to spend (00:29:17) $200 or $300 to go and show up. There's (00:29:20) just a lack of confidence, a lack of (00:29:24) contacts, a lack of quite frankly a (00:29:25) sophistication (00:29:27) >> that people with money can't even relate (00:29:30) to. (00:29:31) >> And the anxiety I remember like this I (00:29:34) don't call it trauma. People have worse (00:29:35) trauma. (00:29:36) >> I was one of I'm one of those people (00:29:37) that's always five minutes away from (00:29:39) losing your keys. I lose everything. And (00:29:42) my ex-wife used to say, "If my dick (00:29:44) wasn't attached, we'd find it on a card (00:29:46) table in Soho next to a Good Fellow (00:29:48) script and a Nirvana album." And (00:29:52) I lost two jackets in one week. And (00:29:55) jackets were 30 bucks for some reason. (00:29:56) It was like a Monopoly or a cartel and (00:29:58) jackets. And I remember just the fear (00:30:00) and anxiety. I purposely spent the night (00:30:02) at my friends two nights in a row (00:30:04) because I just couldn't face telling my (00:30:05) mom I'd lost another jacket, you know, (00:30:08) cuz I knew she was going to melt down. (00:30:10) My mom was in a very vulnerable place (00:30:12) and she would just lose her and that was (00:30:16) very distressing. So I've been so (00:30:19) focused and some of the critiques of the (00:30:22) book is that and it's actually an (00:30:23) accurate critique. It's that I'm too (00:30:25) focused on money and that I think money (00:30:27) will solve a man's problems. And that's (00:30:29) actually a really accurate (00:30:31) >> critique but that comes from a place of (00:30:33) not having it and things just got so (00:30:36) much easier and better for me once I had (00:30:37) economic security. Well, I think it's (00:30:39) part of it for sure, like you said, but (00:30:41) also if you're not kind and you have (00:30:43) money, you're going to just ruin (00:30:45) people's lives if you're just like mean. (00:30:47) Okay, I have all the money. I have (00:30:48) resources. I'm funny and I'm (00:30:50) intelligent, but I'm mean. That is a (00:30:52) disaster for any person coming into a (00:30:55) relationship with them, whether it be a (00:30:56) business partner or a team member if (00:30:58) they're running a business or (00:31:00) >> the president, (00:31:00) >> the president or a fin a fin uh (00:31:02) >> I say that I don't know the political (00:31:04) leanings of you or your audience, but (00:31:06) >> I find that some of the role models for (00:31:08) masculinity that we should naturally (00:31:09) look up to, the wealthiest man in the (00:31:11) world, he's won capitalism and the (00:31:13) president. And I don't think they're (00:31:14) very strong role models for young men. I (00:31:17) think they've conflated masculinity with (00:31:19) coarseness and cruelty. (00:31:21) You know, being sued concurrently by two (00:31:23) women for sole custody of your child (00:31:25) because you haven't seen that child. (00:31:26) That couldn't be any less masculine. (00:31:29) Cutting off aid to HIV positive mothers. (00:31:33) I just can't think of anything less (00:31:35) masculine than that. It's these guys (00:31:36) have recognized tremendous prosperity. (00:31:39) That's really impressive. But the whole (00:31:41) point of prosperity is you can move to (00:31:42) protection. (00:31:43) >> That's the whole shooting match, right? (00:31:45) What's the point of prosperity if you (00:31:47) can't get off your heels and onto your (00:31:50) toes and protect others after you've (00:31:52) protected yourself? And I think some of (00:31:54) the most powerful men in the United (00:31:55) States have just missed that whole part (00:31:58) of their journey towards manhood. I (00:31:59) think it's really disappointing. I even (00:32:01) if you look back at the guilded age, (00:32:03) some of these men who were just (00:32:04) rapacious (00:32:05) >> kind of once they got there, they did (00:32:07) feel a real obligation, a civic (00:32:09) obligation. And that's where I think (00:32:11) some of the individuals in big tech and (00:32:13) in our government right now, I feel as (00:32:15) if they've kind of skipped that whole (00:32:17) protection part of the masculinity (00:32:18) stool, if you will. (00:32:20) >> Procreation, protection, and providing. (00:32:22) Are those the three stools? (00:32:24) >> Provider, (00:32:24) >> provider, (00:32:25) >> uh, (00:32:25) >> and then move to protection. Operating (00:32:27) system around protecting, not just (00:32:29) physical, (00:32:30) >> you know, guys like your size break up (00:32:32) fights at bars. They don't start them, (00:32:34) right? (00:32:34) >> But emotional protection, psychological (00:32:37) protection, all these things, right? (00:32:38) When you hear someone talking about (00:32:40) someone behind their back, your default (00:32:41) your default operating system should be (00:32:43) to weigh in and minimum not participate (00:32:45) and ideally protect them. You may not (00:32:47) agree with the transgender community. (00:32:49) You may be like me and think it's (00:32:50) ridiculous that firms have to have (00:32:52) legally mandated third bathrooms. I (00:32:54) don't think that makes any sense. I (00:32:55) think it's ridiculous that we allowed a (00:32:58) transgender woman who's 6'5 to show up (00:33:00) to an NC2A swim meet. I think that's (00:33:02) just irrational. (00:33:04) >> Starts from It starts from a good place, (00:33:05) but I think that's irrational. But at (00:33:07) the same time, I'd like I I just don't (00:33:10) see any reason why people want to (00:33:12) demonize this community and start (00:33:14) kicking them out of the military when (00:33:15) they've served honorably. When uh we (00:33:18) start passing laws in states that say (00:33:21) there can't be any transgender athletes (00:33:23) in high school and then someone actually (00:33:24) says, "Are there any transgender (00:33:26) athletes in high school in South (00:33:28) Dakota?" And they can't find one. That's (00:33:30) just demonizing a community. That's like (00:33:33) this is less than 1% of the American (00:33:35) population. So yeah, have have a (00:33:38) Democrats or people on the left gone way (00:33:40) too far? Yeah. But then to weigh in with (00:33:42) just being mean and demonizing a (00:33:44) community. So women should be able to (00:33:47) cross the street because they see men on (00:33:49) that side of the street, not avoid them. (00:33:51) That's really that's heartbreaking that (00:33:52) women say they don't feel safe around (00:33:54) men, right? I think we have to teach our (00:33:55) young boys from a very early age. (00:33:57) >> Yes, (00:33:58) >> protection is really a key component. (00:34:00) And then the last one is more (00:34:01) controversial is procreation. And that (00:34:05) is I think men wanting romantic and (00:34:08) sexual relationships has been pathized (00:34:10) and demonized. And I think it's a (00:34:12) feature, not a bug. Because if men want (00:34:15) to have relationships and quite frankly (00:34:18) sex, I didn't see my partner at the pool (00:34:21) at the Raleigh Hotel in South Beach and (00:34:23) think I would like someday to have a (00:34:25) relationship with her to get lower rates (00:34:27) on auto insurance. (00:34:28) >> Right? (00:34:29) >> I saw her and thought quite frankly, I (00:34:31) would really like to have sex with that (00:34:32) woman. Mhm. (00:34:34) >> And that desire, that fire can be (00:34:36) destructive. (00:34:36) >> Yes. (00:34:37) >> But most of the time, it's fire that's (00:34:39) captured in an engine and creates (00:34:41) progress. Progress towards being fit, (00:34:44) being a better dresser, having a rep, (00:34:46) being a provider, having p perseverance, (00:34:48) and developing what I think is the key (00:34:50) skill in life across multiple (00:34:54) dimensions. And that is the ability to (00:34:56) endure rejection. (00:34:58) >> You know, all this you built here, this (00:35:00) didn't just happen. The only thing I (00:35:03) know that was involved in this was a lot (00:35:05) of nos (00:35:06) >> and the ability (00:35:08) >> the ability to get hit in the face, (00:35:10) beaned in the face, (00:35:12) >> get up, dust up, and get back to the (00:35:14) plate. (00:35:15) >> And I think a lot of the skills men (00:35:18) develop pursuing relationships are not (00:35:21) only informative and educational, but (00:35:24) really key to developing skills across (00:35:26) the rest of their lives. And if you ever (00:35:27) see someone, you think, "Oh, they're (00:35:29) talented, but they seem to have made (00:35:30) more money than I would have guessed, or (00:35:32) they're with someone higher character (00:35:34) and more attractive than them," I can (00:35:36) almost guarantee you they have one skill (00:35:37) set, and that is the ability to get out (00:35:39) a spoon and eat. (00:35:40) >> Mhm. (00:35:41) >> And every great yes in your life, every (00:35:44) great yes in your life will involve one (00:35:46) thing, and that is a ridiculous number (00:35:48) of nos that come before it. Mhm. (00:35:50) >> And there's a scary stat that just came (00:35:52) out that 40% of America of men 18 to 24 (00:35:55) have never asked a woman out in person. (00:35:57) >> Wow. Really? (00:35:58) >> So, if you're a dude that's willing to (00:36:00) go up to a woman, figure out a way to (00:36:02) express romantic interest while making (00:36:04) her feel safe, you're almost already in (00:36:06) the top half of men. But men aren't (00:36:09) approaching women. And this is anecdotal (00:36:11) evidence. I don't have data on this, but (00:36:13) when I go out to places on a regular (00:36:16) basis, when I speak to single women, (00:36:18) they'll say, "I'm here. I'm single. I'm (00:36:20) ready to mingle. Look at me. I look (00:36:22) amazing. (00:36:22) >> They're signaling it. Yes. (00:36:24) >> And no men approach me. (00:36:25) >> And regardless of what the Atlantic or (00:36:27) the New York Times will say, 80% of (00:36:29) women still say they want the man to (00:36:32) make the approach. (00:36:33) >> Yes. (00:36:34) >> They don't want to be approaching men. (00:36:36) It just doesn't feel natural for four (00:36:38) out of five uh four out of five women. (00:36:40) And I worry that men are being tempted (00:36:43) have been getting mixed messages. No guy (00:36:47) wants to be that guy, right? makes an (00:36:49) approach in artful doesn't go well or (00:36:53) gets rejected (00:36:54) >> or she it ends up we both work at Google (00:36:59) and now I'm that guy (00:37:01) >> and there's actual professional (00:37:02) ramifications potent I mean the moment a (00:37:05) woman says at work fairly or unfairly (00:37:09) that oh yeah that guy he hit on me at a (00:37:10) bar he's a creep that is not so so I (00:37:14) think that men wanting to pursue (00:37:17) romantic and sexual relationships is a (00:37:19) feature, not a bug. And we've demonized (00:37:22) and pathized it. And I think we're now (00:37:25) getting to a point where people realize (00:37:27) that men being initiators, and I don't (00:37:30) want to say aggressive because that has (00:37:32) negative overtones. But you know, when I (00:37:36) coach young men, one of the things I (00:37:37) tell them is they need to put themselves (00:37:38) in the agency of strangers. And then we (00:37:40) have a practice called no, get to know, (00:37:42) express platonic friendship. Hey, do you (00:37:44) want to grab a beer and watch the game? (00:37:47) And then uh also maybe romantic (00:37:50) interest. Would you be interested in (00:37:51) grabbing coffee first? You got to open (00:37:53) establish some sort of rapport. Where (00:37:54) are you from? You know, etc. And I'm (00:37:56) like and then the key is no because what (00:37:58) you're going to do is you're going to (00:37:59) call me the next day and I'm going to (00:38:00) say how are you? And they're going to (00:38:01) say, "Oh, you know, I'm b I'm fine." (00:38:03) >> And that's the key is developing those (00:38:05) calluses. (00:38:06) >> I'm alive. (00:38:07) >> Yeah. I'm fine. (00:38:08) >> I'm alive. (00:38:08) >> And by the way, she's fine, too. (00:38:10) >> She's fine, too. And if you don't know (00:38:11) the difference between expressing (00:38:13) platonic and romantic interest and (00:38:14) harassing someone, you got much bigger (00:38:16) problems. Mhm. (00:38:17) >> But where do men even have the venues to (00:38:20) do that right now? (00:38:21) >> So provider, I think you got to be (00:38:23) economically viable in a capitalist (00:38:25) society. I think your own self-esteem, (00:38:27) the way society judges you is unfairly. (00:38:29) It's unfairly based on the economic (00:38:30) viability for men. It's unfairly based (00:38:32) on the aesthetic qualities of women. And (00:38:34) I'm not saying this is the way the world (00:38:36) should be, but it is the way the world (00:38:37) is. (00:38:38) >> Yeah. (00:38:38) >> And then two, immediate move to (00:38:40) protection. I think that's the most (00:38:42) rewarding thing about being having some (00:38:44) prosperity. That's when I feel most at (00:38:45) rest and most of purpose. When I feel (00:38:47) like my kids are safe, my partner feels (00:38:49) noticed. I feel I can get get involved (00:38:52) in great charities. You I'm doing a lot (00:38:53) of virtue signaling right now, but it's (00:38:55) true. But that gives me a sense of (00:38:56) purpose and makes me feel strong. And (00:38:58) then finally, I think we've got to (00:39:00) celebrate young men's desire to be in (00:39:03) relationships. I think it's a I think (00:39:05) it's a feature, not a bug. I think (00:39:07) societyy's better when men learn to (00:39:10) improve themselves so they can attract a (00:39:12) a female partner or a partner where they (00:39:15) can be a better human being. They can (00:39:17) provide to that partner. They're less (00:39:18) selfish. Hopefully, they're more, you (00:39:21) know, thoughtful about how they can (00:39:23) serve their friends, their family, their (00:39:25) community. (00:39:26) If you find a man like that who can (00:39:28) improve their life to attract a healthy, (00:39:30) conscious woman (00:39:31) >> that wants to be with them, you're going (00:39:33) to have less war, less suffering, less (00:39:35) pain, less aggression, less anger, and (00:39:39) less men hurting other people. And I (00:39:41) think that's what we need as society. (00:39:43) And I saw you go on the view and there (00:39:45) was a reaction video that someone said, (00:39:47) you know, okay, Scott, so you need women (00:39:49) to come rescue men (00:39:51) >> because, you know, unless men are with a (00:39:54) great woman, then they're going to be, (00:39:56) >> you know, going around the world hurting (00:39:57) people and just like causing a mess. (00:39:59) >> And now we have to go and save men, you (00:40:02) know, when they've been oppressing us or (00:40:03) hurting us for years and pushing us (00:40:05) down. Like (00:40:06) >> that doesn't work for me. So what what (00:40:08) are your thoughts around that where it's (00:40:10) like (00:40:10) >> women feel like they're already working (00:40:12) so hard. Why do they have to come rescue (00:40:14) the man now? (00:40:15) >> Yeah. (00:40:15) >> To be a better man. (00:40:17) >> Yeah. So it's not nobody has an (00:40:20) obligation to service or or save men. (00:40:23) Especially women. I don't you know men (00:40:26) have to level up. Women don't have I (00:40:27) don't think women need to lower their (00:40:28) standards. Uh, you know, I tell women to (00:40:30) agree to a second coffee because (00:40:32) traditionally, as we referenced before, (00:40:33) sometimes it takes time (00:40:35) >> to to find that you're interested in (00:40:37) this man. (00:40:38) >> But I've never ever in any way can (00:40:40) conoted or intimated. And I think feel (00:40:42) like some of these some of these (00:40:44) comments are unfair. They say these men (00:40:46) are just entitled and feel like and (00:40:48) women are, as you said, supposed to come (00:40:50) say them. I think unless men level up (00:40:52) and unless we put in place fiscal (00:40:54) programs that restore more economic (00:40:56) viability to all young people, (00:40:58) women, you can't tell women to lower (00:41:00) their standards and save men. I get it. (00:41:04) I 100% get it. So my I have three (00:41:07) parties that I think need to weigh in (00:41:08) here with health. One is a society I (00:41:10) think we need to stop the transfer of (00:41:11) economic power from young to old. We (00:41:14) transfer 1.22 True two trillion dollars (00:41:16) every year. The biggest transfer in (00:41:17) history of of money from working age (00:41:19) people to old people who are the (00:41:21) wealthiest generation in history. My (00:41:23) generation, people my age are 72% (00:41:26) wealthier than they were 40 years ago. (00:41:28) People under the age of 40 are 24% less (00:41:31) wealthy. (00:41:32) >> This has a disproportionately negative (00:41:34) impact on men who are falling behind (00:41:36) women because men are still (00:41:37) disproportionately evaluated based on (00:41:39) their economic viability. Beyonce could (00:41:41) still marry Jay-Z if she worked at (00:41:42) McDonald's. The opposite is not true. (00:41:45) And the reality is men are are evaluated (00:41:48) as romantic partners disproportionately (00:41:50) based on their economic viability. So (00:41:53) men need to we need fiscal policies that (00:41:55) put more money I don't think in men's (00:41:57) pockets but in young pockets. Uh (00:41:59) >> but is that women who are looking that (00:42:01) they don't they don't feel safe if a man (00:42:03) doesn't have money or is that women who (00:42:05) are attracted to men with money? Is that (00:42:07) >> I I don't know if it's they don't feel (00:42:08) safe but 75% of women say economic (00:42:10) viability is key to a partner. only 25% (00:42:13) of men. I mean, you've seen the state (00:42:15) this (00:42:16) >> men made socioeconomically horizontally (00:42:18) and down, women horizontally and up. And (00:42:21) when the pool of horizontal and up, (00:42:22) because women keep getting taller (00:42:24) economically, which is wonderful, don't (00:42:26) do anything get in the way of it. The (00:42:27) pool of horizontal and up keep (00:42:29) shrinking. And so, what do you do? I (00:42:32) don't think we want economic uh (00:42:34) affirmative action for men. I think what (00:42:36) we want is to stop the transfer of (00:42:39) wealth from young to old. The two (00:42:41) biggest tax deductions in America are (00:42:43) mortgage interest rate and capital (00:42:45) gains. Who owns homes and stocks? People (00:42:47) my age. Who makes their money from (00:42:49) working, current income, and rents? (00:42:51) Young people. And when a a young when a (00:42:54) young group of people does not have (00:42:56) money, you end up with a group with (00:42:59) women who are two and three women under (00:43:01) the age of 30 in a relationship, one in (00:43:03) three men. Now, why is that? You think (00:43:04) that's mathematically impossible? It's (00:43:06) not because women are dating older (00:43:08) because they want more emotionally and (00:43:09) economically viable men. (00:43:11) >> So, look, I I think that we need to (00:43:14) weigh in with policies that level up (00:43:16) young people. Again, raise minimum wage, (00:43:19) more progressive tax policy. (00:43:21) Corporations are paying the lowest tax (00:43:22) rate since 1939. The 25 wealthiest (00:43:24) families are paying about 6% tax rate. (00:43:27) We just transfer massive economics. (00:43:29) There's a sucking sound from young (00:43:30) people to old people. I think it's taken (00:43:32) an especially damaging toll on um young (00:43:36) men. And then the second group is I (00:43:39) think men my age really need to lean in (00:43:42) and get involved in a young man's life (00:43:44) or boy's life because we have a debt (00:43:47) >> to mentor young kids. Well, we we we had (00:43:50) unfair advantage. (00:43:51) >> And I understand the gag reflex cuz they (00:43:53) see a guy of my skin color, sexual (00:43:56) orientation, gender, and age, and think, (00:43:59) "Dude, you had a 3,000-y year head (00:44:01) start, and you're you're you're (00:44:02) complaining about men now." And I'm (00:44:04) like, "I get it, but should a (00:44:06) 19-year-old male pay the price for my (00:44:08) advantage?" (00:44:09) >> So, we have an obligation, especially (00:44:11) men of my generation, to get involved (00:44:13) and try and lift them up. And then I (00:44:16) also think women play a role because I (00:44:17) do think there's an an unhealthy (00:44:19) zeitgeist in our society where women and (00:44:23) progressives say to young men, you don't (00:44:25) have problems, you are the problem. (00:44:27) >> Mhm. (00:44:27) >> And the answer is you need to act more (00:44:29) like a woman. (00:44:30) >> And I don't think that's the answer (00:44:31) either. (00:44:32) >> I don't think it is. But I I feel like (00:44:34) sometimes, (00:44:35) and I hate this term, people take this (00:44:37) stuff out of context and say, "You're (00:44:39) expecting now women are after finally (00:44:42) getting some progress are responsible (00:44:44) for saving men." No, they're not. Our (00:44:47) society is responsible for creating a (00:44:48) healthy next generation, which means (00:44:51) continuing the progress of women and (00:44:54) also lifting up our young men who by any (00:44:56) standard are really struggling. And (00:44:58) empathy is not a zero- sum game. We can (00:45:00) still acknowledge the huge obstacles (00:45:03) women just face. Your wife just had (00:45:05) twins. When women have kids, they go to (00:45:07) 77 cents on the dollar. We have not (00:45:09) figured out a way to maintain a woman's (00:45:11) professional trajectory when she has (00:45:13) kids. That's a problem. (00:45:16) >> Black and Latino families have an (00:45:17) average household net worth of 22,000. (00:45:20) White families 160. There's still an (00:45:23) economic apartheid in the US. But we can (00:45:26) acknowledge those problems still exist (00:45:28) and work on them. But at the same time (00:45:29) also realize the country and women are (00:45:32) not going to continue to flourish if (00:45:34) young men are flailing. Full stop. (00:45:36) >> Yes. (00:45:36) >> So again, empathy is not a zero sum (00:45:39) game. Gay marriage didn't hurt. (00:45:40) Heteronormative marriage, civil rights (00:45:42) didn't hurt white people. Helping some (00:45:45) of our young men and specifically with (00:45:46) programs for young people economically, (00:45:50) that's not going to hurt women. It (00:45:52) doesn't come at the cost of women. And (00:45:54) one of the things I hate about the (00:45:55) manosphere, what people traditionally (00:45:56) think is the manosphere, (00:45:58) is they believe there is an inverse (00:46:02) correlation between women's ascent and (00:46:04) how men are doing. And the reality is (00:46:06) without women's ascent, we wouldn't have (00:46:08) won World War II. Hitler wouldn't let (00:46:11) women get into the factories. He thought (00:46:12) they needed to stay home. And we let (00:46:14) women build P-51 Mustangs and we sent a (00:46:17) lot of them overseas to be near the (00:46:19) front lines. that literally won the or (00:46:22) was a big contributor to the war. Women (00:46:25) entering the workforce in the 70s and (00:46:27) 80s in the United States is probably the (00:46:30) biggest driver of economic growth for (00:46:32) the United States and in a capitalist (00:46:34) society where our expectations keep (00:46:35) going up. You know, having dual income (00:46:38) households is really important. So, I (00:46:40) think women's ascent has been accreative (00:46:42) to men. I think it's been great. (00:46:44) >> Yeah. And we need our young men to (00:46:46) recognize that when they really lose the (00:46:49) script is when they start blaming women (00:46:51) for their romantic problems and (00:46:52) immigrants for their economic problems. (00:46:54) That women's success is great for them. (00:46:57) At the same time, I do think that we (00:47:00) need to stop this demonizing of there's (00:47:03) this thing online, this trend where (00:47:05) women talk say they're not dating any (00:47:07) longer because they could be unalived, (00:47:09) which I guess is a politically correct (00:47:10) term, killed, murdered. This episode is (00:47:13) brought to you by Facebook. Thanksgiving (00:47:16) is one of those times when everyone (00:47:19) comes home. It's busy. It's nostalgic (00:47:22) and full of moments that remind us of (00:47:24) the people that really matter to us. (00:47:27) Facebook is the platform built for real, (00:47:30) meaningful human connection, helping you (00:47:32) find your people, pursue your interests, (00:47:36) and create new memories together. It's (00:47:38) when old friends, neighbors, and (00:47:40) classmates come back into your life, (00:47:42) sparking new stories that feel both (00:47:45) familiar and fresh. And whether it's (00:47:47) reconnecting through a Facebook alumni (00:47:49) group, joining an event in your (00:47:51) hometown, or finding something special (00:47:53) on marketplace, Facebook helps bring (00:47:57) people closer both online and in real (00:48:00) life. It's a space for meaningful (00:48:02) connections that enrich our lives, (00:48:04) especially this time of year. and (00:48:06) actually have a Facebook group for (00:48:07) everyone who's ever attended my Summit (00:48:09) of a Greatness event. And it's one of my (00:48:12) favorite parts of our community because (00:48:14) people share photos, they celebrate (00:48:16) their wins, they ask for support, and (00:48:18) they keep that same energy alive long (00:48:21) after the event ends. And it's amazing (00:48:23) to see friendships and collaborations (00:48:25) that started at Summit of Greatness (00:48:27) continue to grow throughout the years (00:48:29) with the help of Facebook. Let's (00:48:32) reconnect this holiday season. Explore (00:48:34) more with Facebook today. They (00:48:37) >> unalived. (00:48:38) >> Unal alived. (00:48:39) >> Unal alived. Yeah. (00:48:40) >> If they were dating someone, they would (00:48:41) be killed. (00:48:42) >> Well, no. That one of the reasons (00:48:43) they're no longer dating is they feel (00:48:45) like they're taking physical risks being (00:48:46) in a man's company because men are (00:48:48) violent. (00:48:49) >> Okay. (00:48:49) >> And 2500 women every year are murdered. (00:48:52) That's a huge problem. 70%, by the way, (00:48:54) by people they've known for a while. But (00:48:56) if you look at the actual data, if you (00:48:58) go on a date with a man, he's 16 times (00:49:01) 16 times more likely to go home that (00:49:03) night and hurt himself than hurt you. (00:49:05) >> Why is that? (00:49:06) >> I think men sometimes get very Look, men (00:49:09) are engaging in a lot of self harm. You (00:49:11) go into a morg and there's five people (00:49:12) died by suicide. Four are men. And you (00:49:16) know, you're four times more likely to (00:49:17) get hurt on the drive over or choke (00:49:19) during dinner. So, we've decided, I (00:49:21) think the algorithms have decided, let's (00:49:23) portray young men as as quite frankly as (00:49:25) a danger to society. And the reality is (00:49:28) men who are dangerous, and the mo vast (00:49:30) majority aren't, but the the small (00:49:32) minority that are are dangerous towards (00:49:35) themselves. (00:49:36) >> They're much more likely. The majority (00:49:38) of gun deaths are suicides. (00:49:40) >> Yeah. (00:49:40) >> And so, I think that I think that we (00:49:42) also need (00:49:45) my biggest fans are young men. My (00:49:47) biggest supporters are mothers (00:49:49) >> because they see what's going on. They (00:49:51) see I have two daughters and one son. (00:49:53) One daughter a pen, one daughter in PR, (00:49:56) and my son's in the basement playing (00:49:57) video games and vaping. So I think that (00:50:01) recognizing (00:50:03) what I call restoring the alliance and (00:50:05) that is the greatest alliance in history (00:50:07) isn't NATO or between democracies. The (00:50:09) greatest alliance in history is the (00:50:10) alliance between men and women. I think (00:50:12) a combination of masculine and feminine (00:50:14) energy in a household makes the (00:50:15) happiest, most productive households. (00:50:17) >> And by the way, sometimes two women can (00:50:19) bring that chemistry or two men can (00:50:20) bring that alchemy, right? (00:50:22) >> But that combination of masculine and (00:50:24) feminine energy, I think, is a wonderful (00:50:26) mix. And what the genders have done a (00:50:28) great job of is convincing themselves (00:50:30) that it's the other gender's fault, (00:50:32) right? Men got to stop blaming women. (00:50:33) That just doesn't hunt, right? And at (00:50:35) the same time, I do think that some (00:50:37) women and feminists, it's actually not (00:50:40) feminist, I'll call it progressives, (00:50:42) liberal versus illiberal thoughts (00:50:44) just need to look at the data and think, (00:50:46) okay, lifting up our young men is going (00:50:48) to be good for everybody. (00:50:50) >> Yes, it is. Do you think, (00:50:52) [clears throat] you know, I'm here you (00:50:54) share that it's great that women are (00:50:56) earning more and are constantly (00:50:57) progressing in their careers and getting (00:50:59) more opportunities than ever and we want (00:51:02) to continue that thriving. We also want (00:51:04) to see men continue to improve, (00:51:06) especially young men who maybe don't (00:51:08) have the skills anymore, the tools to (00:51:09) become financially successful or they (00:51:11) haven't figured it out yet. (00:51:13) >> Do you think is there any data around (00:51:17) the majority of women being able to earn (00:51:21) more than men and still be attracted to (00:51:23) them in a long-term romantic (00:51:26) relationship? Or is there any data that (00:51:27) you've seen around that that women can (00:51:29) make more and still be attracted to the (00:51:32) man they're with long term? (00:51:34) So 17% of households now the woman is (00:51:37) the primary bread winner (00:51:39) >> and so I do think over time society is (00:51:41) becoming (00:51:42) >> but are they attracted to their partner (00:51:44) still (00:51:44) >> well okay so this is (00:51:45) >> just because they're together doesn't (00:51:46) mean it's happy and (00:51:48) >> like the data is not I'm going to (00:51:51) there's the way the world should be and (00:51:52) the way the world is [laughter] (00:51:54) >> the way the world is is the following is (00:51:56) that when the woman in the relationship (00:51:57) starts making more money than the man (00:52:00) the likelihood of divorce doubles (00:52:02) >> really (00:52:02) >> the use of erectile dysfunction drugs (00:52:05) triples because the man feels has less (00:52:07) self-esteem and has problems. (00:52:09) >> Wow. (00:52:10) >> So, (00:52:11) the honest answer is I don't know how to (00:52:13) get past We're going to we're going to (00:52:14) have to figure out things and we're (00:52:15) going to have to train our (00:52:17) >> is that biology? Is that like psychology (00:52:19) around that that causes these things to (00:52:22) these challenges to arise when women (00:52:24) earn more than the men they're with? I (00:52:25) think it's very anthropological in that (00:52:27) is women feel innately that their job or (00:52:31) one of the things they need to be (00:52:32) focused on is how to protect offspring (00:52:34) and they need to partner with someone (00:52:35) who's strong and can protect them in (00:52:37) their offspring and in a capitalist (00:52:39) society strength is conflated with (00:52:40) economic power. So there's just no doubt (00:52:44) about it. (00:52:44) >> So if a woman is stronger financially, (00:52:46) emotionally, physically, then it's like (00:52:48) why do you need the man then? Right. (00:52:49) Well, so 70% of divorce filings are by (00:52:52) women and and actually the increase in (00:52:55) divorce rates is probably a good thing (00:52:57) because women no longer feel (00:52:58) economically indentured or dependent (00:53:00) upon (00:53:01) >> trapped anymore. Yeah. From that, (00:53:02) >> but there's just no getting around it. (00:53:04) Um, (00:53:04) >> so men need to continue to figure out (00:53:06) how to earn more than the partners (00:53:08) they're with in order to have a happier (00:53:10) marriage. It sounds like based on the (00:53:11) data. But also at a minimum, if a woman (00:53:15) ascends economically, relationships at (00:53:17) the end of the day are somewhat of a (00:53:18) transaction. If a woman is ascending (00:53:21) economically, what you see is men aren't (00:53:23) stepping up logistically and emotionally (00:53:25) and domestically. They're not keeping (00:53:26) pace with that ascent. No. (00:53:28) >> And so at some point the woman in the (00:53:30) relationship does the math and says, (00:53:32) "Okay, I'm the provider. I'm the (00:53:33) procreator and you aren't stepping up at (00:53:35) home. Then I'm definitely out of here." (00:53:37) So there's a difference between, I (00:53:39) think, working on the relationship and (00:53:40) trying to evolve the relationship, which (00:53:42) I think a lot of couples where the woman (00:53:43) is the primary bread winner. I think (00:53:45) they can work through it. There's no (00:53:46) reason they can't have happy marriages. (00:53:48) >> But there's just no getting around it. (00:53:49) The data shows that innate sexual (00:53:51) attraction is at risk when the woman is (00:53:54) the provider. (00:53:55) >> Wow. And and I'm not saying that that (00:53:58) can't work, but there's just a lot of (00:54:00) data that that women lose sexual (00:54:04) interest in a man when he's when he (00:54:07) fails as a provider or diminishes as a (00:54:09) provider. The cocktail or the (00:54:11) afterburner, the fuel on top of that (00:54:14) division or disscent is that when men (00:54:17) don't step up in the other parts of the (00:54:18) life, (00:54:19) >> they don't own their role. If they're (00:54:20) not generous, if they're not kind, if (00:54:22) they're not contributing, whatever it (00:54:24) might be. Yeah. Sometime I think being (00:54:25) part of a provider is quite frankly (00:54:27) sometimes getting out of the way and (00:54:28) being more supportive of your partner (00:54:30) who might be better at that whole money (00:54:32) thing. And I think we're going to have (00:54:34) to figure this out and train our boys to (00:54:37) step up emotionally and logistically and (00:54:39) domestically because the reality is more (00:54:41) women are medical school, more women are (00:54:43) in law school. We're probably going to (00:54:44) have 2 to one female to male college (00:54:47) grads (00:54:49) >> in the next 5 years. And so women more (00:54:51) and more that 17% number is going to (00:54:53) grow. So we have to figure out a way to (00:54:55) train our voice to say okay wow (00:54:57) >> part of being a provider is is (00:54:59) contributing in a lot on a lot of you (00:55:02) know a lot of different dimensions but (00:55:04) also we need there are a ton of (00:55:06) mainstream mainstream jobs in vocational (00:55:09) programming (00:55:11) 13% 11% of LinkedIn profiles in the UK (00:55:15) and Germany say apprentice it's 3% in (00:55:18) the US we don't have an apprentice (00:55:19) culture and we have shame vocational (00:55:21) jobs I don't know if you've seen all (00:55:23) these articles But there's now a bunch (00:55:25) of uh juniors and 17-year-olds men in (00:55:28) high school uh who are learning like how (00:55:31) to install HVAC energy efficient heaters (00:55:34) and making 80 or $90,000 a year by their (00:55:36) senior year. (00:55:37) >> It's great for them. (00:55:38) >> There's actually a lot of vocational (00:55:39) jobs ready and we hate to admit this, (00:55:41) but men seem to enjoy and quite frankly (00:55:44) >> on average not always be better at these (00:55:47) types of this type of vocational work (00:55:49) that require sometimes strength or (00:55:50) working out men later outside. Yeah. (00:55:54) >> And so we need we need to help men level (00:55:57) up because I don't think it's what I (00:55:59) don't think it is I don't think the (00:56:01) disscent or the anxiety in or the lack (00:56:03) of sexual chemistry the the sexual (00:56:05) diffusion if you will necessarily (00:56:08) happens once the woman is making a (00:56:09) dollar more. It's quite frankly when the (00:56:12) guy okay economically maybe you're not (00:56:15) there with me but you're not (00:56:16) contributing. (00:56:17) >> You're not adding that surplus of value. (00:56:20) Yeah. you got to bring something to the (00:56:21) table, right? And traditionally the (00:56:23) roles were very defined. The the the (00:56:25) female offered kind of more empathetic, (00:56:28) understood how to create a healthy, (00:56:30) loving household better than the men. (00:56:32) Kind of what we call the emotional labor (00:56:34) that they that's been undervalued. (00:56:36) >> Yes, (00:56:37) >> men aren't stepping up around that. So, (00:56:39) it's a very honest conversation. It's (00:56:40) like, okay, your wife's doing great. You (00:56:43) want to be supportive of her because you (00:56:44) need money. You need economic household. (00:56:46) >> But quite frankly, boss, what are you (00:56:47) bringing to the table? Do you feel like (00:56:48) in some ways I'm going to give an (00:56:50) example and this is just one example but (00:56:52) do you feel in some ways that women have (00:56:55) been lied to around (00:56:58) the need to you know be careerdriven and (00:57:01) earn as much as possible and delay (00:57:03) having kids and delay getting married as (00:57:05) long as you can until you're financially (00:57:07) stable? And I'll give you context around (00:57:10) this uh and maybe it's just case by (00:57:12) case. There's someone I know, I'm not (00:57:14) going to call them out, but there's (00:57:15) someone I know who is very career (00:57:17) focused and driven on their career for (00:57:19) probably the last 12 or 13 years and (00:57:22) since college and just always seemed a (00:57:25) little frustrated, always seemed a (00:57:27) little unhappy, just always seemed like (00:57:29) a little, I don't know, something was (00:57:31) always off (00:57:33) >> around the energy of this person. And (00:57:35) they just had a child, you know, maybe (00:57:38) six months ago, and I've never seen them (00:57:40) happier every time around. It's like (00:57:42) something transformed. (00:57:44) >> Yeah. (00:57:44) >> And there's And it's like she loves (00:57:47) being a mother. She She's like (00:57:49) >> it is just changed her world in a (00:57:51) positive way energetically. It's like (00:57:54) it's like she's on purpose. (00:57:56) >> Mhm. (00:57:56) >> And she hasn't stopped working. She's (00:57:58) gone back kind of part-time, but it's (00:58:00) like I can just see her come alive. (00:58:03) >> Mhm. And do you think there's in any way (00:58:05) women have been lied to about delay (00:58:08) having kids as long as possible, make as (00:58:10) much as money as you can, be financially (00:58:12) stable first, develop yourself in your (00:58:14) career, don't rely on the man to to do (00:58:17) this, otherwise you get it screwed over (00:58:19) where I just saw someone have the most (00:58:21) joy in the last 6 months of like (00:58:23) stepping into this role as a mother. (00:58:26) Maybe that's just one case, but what are (00:58:28) your thoughts on that? (00:58:29) >> I think the sort of you've been lied to (00:58:33) you worked hard, you became a baller (00:58:35) professionally, now you're miserable (00:58:37) because you didn't take the time to find (00:58:38) a man or have a family. I think that's a (00:58:41) little bit of this trope or this myth (00:58:44) from the far right that wants to take (00:58:46) women back to the 50s and 60s because (00:58:51) okay, what if that woman also wasn't (00:58:55) able to find a romantic partnership? (00:58:58) >> Yeah. (00:58:58) >> And was also economically insecure. (00:59:00) >> True. So, I don't I find sometimes (00:59:03) that's an excuse to try and take to (00:59:06) regress and repeal women's rights. (00:59:08) >> Now, (00:59:10) I think (00:59:12) now the reality is if a man focuses on (00:59:15) his career and is out of shape, not (00:59:18) especially nice, but a baller (00:59:20) professionally, he's still going to find (00:59:22) a mate. (00:59:24) >> And that's not as true for women, (00:59:26) >> right? (00:59:27) uh a a partner at a law firm who's a (00:59:31) male who's maybe just modestly (00:59:34) attractive and not that nice and not (00:59:35) that nurturing, (00:59:37) he's going to find a wife. I'm not sure. (00:59:40) I mean, it's just it's just a little bit (00:59:41) unfair, quite frankly, because we put (00:59:44) the same economic responsibilities on (00:59:46) women and the same expectations, but we (00:59:49) don't reward them romantically and (00:59:51) sexually with the same currency as we (00:59:53) reward a man for that focus. So quite (00:59:55) frank, but I don't think I I I think (00:59:58) women wanting to be economically (01:00:00) independent and enjoy having strangers (01:00:03) applaud for them on a stage financially (01:00:06) and professionally. I think we need more (01:00:09) of it. I do think that both men and (01:00:11) women need to make a real effort to be (01:00:16) appro to approach people, be (01:00:17) approachable, say yes, put yourself in (01:00:20) situations where you might meet (01:00:21) somebody. Maybe if there's not sparks on (01:00:24) the first date, give a second coffee a (01:00:26) chance. But this notion, I don't like (01:00:29) the rights trope or this narrative (01:00:31) around women have been lied to and they (01:00:33) should be home barefoot and pregnant. I (01:00:35) just think that's that's kind of (01:00:37) inadvertently saying, (01:00:39) >> this is not me politically saying these (01:00:41) things. I'm just curious about like (01:00:42) >> quite frankly, this is what Charlie Kirk (01:00:44) said, (01:00:44) >> that women are miserable. And here's the (01:00:47) data flies in the face of that because (01:00:50) you know who's really miserable is the (01:00:51) dude that wakes up in his 30s and isn't (01:00:53) in a relationship. (01:00:54) >> Yeah. (01:00:55) >> The data is pretty clear. Men need (01:00:57) relationships more than women. One of (01:00:59) the things I say in the book that's (01:01:00) gotten some push push back is (01:01:03) >> you I try to be very honest. I tell my (01:01:04) boys that if they're ever in the company (01:01:06) of women, they pay. (01:01:08) >> People say, "Well, that's sexist." (01:01:10) >> I think it's sexist. I think it's (01:01:12) generous. (01:01:13) >> It's adding value. It's being courteous. (01:01:14) It's being thoughtful. That's right. (01:01:16) >> It's like why is that sexist? (01:01:18) >> Well, the the what the way the land (01:01:20) >> offer to pay. If they say no, then okay, (01:01:22) you don't have to. I guess (01:01:23) >> you offer. I think you just pay. But (01:01:24) anyway, yeah. (01:01:26) >> And I'll give my land acknowledgement (01:01:27) now. So, the rationale that I try and (01:01:30) propose is that (01:01:33) men benefit more from relationships than (01:01:35) women. There's just, you know, widows (01:01:36) happier after their husband dies. (01:01:38) Widower is less happy. A woman's (01:01:40) fertility window is much shorter than a (01:01:42) man's. the downside of sex for a woman (01:01:44) is much greater than a man. (01:01:45) >> Bigger risk. Yeah. (01:01:46) >> So when you look at the fact that on (01:01:48) average a man's going to benefit more (01:01:49) from the relationship, that the woman is (01:01:51) taking more risk in terms of downside or (01:01:53) risk when her fertility window is (01:01:55) shorter and when you also acknowledge (01:01:57) that almost every mammal has some sort (01:01:59) of courtship ritual. (01:02:01) It makes sense for one way that you (01:02:03) recognize that asymmetry, one way you (01:02:05) step up and say, "I value your time. I (01:02:08) value this situation, if you will." One (01:02:11) easy way to recognize and acknowledge (01:02:13) that asymmetry is to pay. And also, (01:02:15) innately, regardless of what someone (01:02:17) might say, what I've told my 18-year-old (01:02:19) son is anytime you split the check with (01:02:21) anyone, it means they are never going to (01:02:23) kiss you and you are never going to kiss (01:02:24) them. That's the bottom line. And I (01:02:27) think those genes are wired into us for (01:02:30) thousands of years. And regardless of (01:02:31) what we say, well, it's who asked who (01:02:33) out. (01:02:34) >> I'm just saying to my boys in my view (01:02:36) that if you're in the company of women, (01:02:38) you pay. Yeah. to guys like you with who (01:02:40) are in great shape is not necessarily (01:02:42) because of the aesthetics of being in (01:02:44) great shape. (01:02:45) >> The discipline (01:02:46) >> it says you show up. It says you can (01:02:48) commit to something. (01:02:49) >> It says that you're on your game. It (01:02:51) says you're not up every night. (01:02:53) It says that you know how to show up (01:02:54) every day and do something and commit to (01:02:56) something. (01:02:57) >> So, but anyways, my point is that going (01:03:00) back to the I don't think I think (01:03:03) women's professional ascent is great for (01:03:06) them. I think over the long term it's (01:03:08) great for society and great for men. (01:03:10) >> But we also have to recognize there's (01:03:12) just some externalities and some (01:03:14) knock-on effects when we're in a society (01:03:16) where men are falling behind women (01:03:19) economically. Don't get in the way of (01:03:21) this, right? Fix this. (01:03:24) >> Get men back on track. And I don't even (01:03:26) like any program that specifically (01:03:28) targets men economically other than (01:03:30) investing more in vocational (01:03:32) programming, expanding freshman seats. (01:03:33) What I'm suggesting is a series of (01:03:35) public policy programs that would lift (01:03:37) all young people up. (01:03:39) >> Cuz it's not about it's not about the (01:03:41) guy making if the woman's in the (01:03:44) relationship is making 80,000. It's not (01:03:46) about the guy needing to make 81, (01:03:48) >> but the guy needs to be sort of in a (01:03:50) weight contributing. He needs to be in (01:03:52) that weight class where he's (01:03:53) contributing. Uh, and I think a lot of (01:03:56) unfortunately a lot of men right now, (01:03:58) young men are seduced by having a (01:04:00) reasonable fact some of life online and (01:04:02) then show up with no skills and no (01:04:04) ability to contribute to a relationship. (01:04:06) And I think that's and again when a (01:04:10) woman doesn't have a romantic (01:04:11) relationship, she pours that energy into (01:04:12) her friends and her professional life. (01:04:14) When a man doesn't have a relationship, (01:04:16) not always, but often, he pours that (01:04:17) energy (01:04:18) >> destructive things, right? (01:04:19) >> Into Yeah. uh you know into conspiracy (01:04:22) theory online goes extremely online (01:04:25) >> um you know all these mass shooters I (01:04:28) did some research on political violence (01:04:31) and the far left wants to bring the far (01:04:33) right far right wants to blame the far (01:04:35) left and it's a totally hollow argument (01:04:37) 98.6% 6% of mass shooters are men. (01:04:39) Almost all political violence is (01:04:41) committed not only by men, but young (01:04:43) men. And these guys are less politically (01:04:45) engaged than probably you or me. What do (01:04:47) they have in common? They're young men, (01:04:49) not attaching to work, not attaching to (01:04:51) school, no relationships, economically (01:04:53) strained. They go extremely online, find (01:04:56) these conspiracy theories, they get (01:04:58) radicalized online, and then they have (01:05:00) access then they have access to guns. (01:05:02) And again, I feel I have to do another (01:05:04) land acknowledgement. I'm not suggesting (01:05:06) that it's women's responsibility to (01:05:08) solve this problem. I'm suggesting as a (01:05:10) society, if one group is struggling, we (01:05:13) can focus on lifting them up. (01:05:14) >> Yeah. And that's why I love that you (01:05:16) wrote this book, Notes on Being a Man. (01:05:17) And it's one of the reasons why, you (01:05:19) know, eight years ago I wrote The Mask (01:05:20) of Masculinity because I went down my (01:05:23) own path of (01:05:26) realizing and coming to the awareness (01:05:28) that all of these, you know, shootings, (01:05:31) the domest most of the domestic violence (01:05:33) in the USA, in the world, um, and just (01:05:36) any destruction happening in the world (01:05:38) is typically from men who haven't healed (01:05:41) their traumas or haven't created a (01:05:44) healthy, conscious (01:05:46) respect about themselves. and having (01:05:48) more tools on how to navigate society (01:05:50) and the world better. And the mass (01:05:52) shooters that you're talking about, they (01:05:53) have a lot of traumas that they haven't (01:05:55) healed yet. They haven't processed the (01:05:57) wounds of whatever they've gone through. (01:05:59) They don't have good relationships. (01:06:01) They're isolated. They're alone, or at (01:06:03) least that's how probably they're (01:06:04) feeling. And they don't have the tools (01:06:07) on how to navigate their mind or their (01:06:08) emotions on how to get beyond those (01:06:10) things that are destructive. (01:06:12) >> Yeah. And I think that's what you've (01:06:13) been talking about in notes on being a (01:06:15) man is how to overcome the loneliness (01:06:18) feeling, the sadness, the lack of (01:06:20) resourcefulness, and having the courage (01:06:22) to be in the world dealing with failure (01:06:26) over and over and over again and not (01:06:28) going back into a a cave in your your (01:06:31) parents' basement saying, "This girl (01:06:33) rejected me," or "This guy made fun of (01:06:35) me. I'm worthless now. I'm traumatized (01:06:38) and I'm going to go destroy the world (01:06:40) around me." And I think when men, (01:06:43) especially younger boys, cuz I was very (01:06:45) internally destructive most of my life. (01:06:48) I said a lot of mean things to myself. (01:06:50) >> I'd physically hurt myself. I was never (01:06:52) like cutting myself or like going into (01:06:54) alcohol, (01:06:55) >> but it was more like how can I get into (01:06:57) as many fights as possible to be (01:06:59) destructive, (01:07:00) >> to inflict pain on myself and other (01:07:02) people. Thankfully, sports gave me a (01:07:05) safe outlet to do that where I could do (01:07:06) it in a constructive way, but I was (01:07:08) still destructive in the process of (01:07:11) wanting to inflict as much pain on (01:07:13) myself and others cuz I just felt like I (01:07:15) was bad and wrong. I felt shameful (01:07:18) >> growing up dealing with sexual abuse (01:07:20) from a man that I didn't know. I felt (01:07:21) like I was worthless. (01:07:22) >> Y (01:07:23) >> my brother was in prison for four years (01:07:25) when I was eight. So, just the stress of (01:07:27) that on the family dynamics, my parents (01:07:29) going through divorce. Listen, I was a (01:07:31) white man born in in Ohio in America. (01:07:34) So, I was born on third base in some (01:07:36) ways, but that doesn't hold back the (01:07:38) psychological (01:07:40) stress and mess that I had to deal with (01:07:42) and a lot of people have to deal with. (01:07:44) So I could have been completely (01:07:46) destructive, but there was different (01:07:48) moments in my life and different mentors (01:07:50) like like you mentioned there's a lack (01:07:51) of now (01:07:53) that that came to me and gave me a high (01:07:56) five that put their arm around me (01:07:57) emotionally, spiritually, physically (01:08:00) >> and said, "Why are you so destructive? (01:08:02) Why are you trying to hurt yourself so (01:08:03) much? Why you why are you reacting this (01:08:05) way? Like why are you getting so angry (01:08:08) >> of the littlest things?" (01:08:09) >> Yeah. (01:08:09) >> Like come over here. (01:08:11) >> Yeah. And I had mentor and I and I (01:08:13) allowed myself to be coached by mentors. (01:08:16) I didn't push them away. I I see it out (01:08:18) as well. And there were different (01:08:20) seasons in life and stages that I had to (01:08:23) fail over and over again and realize, (01:08:25) oh, this behavior is not supportive to (01:08:28) me or other people. It's hurting people (01:08:30) around me, friends, family, girlfriends, (01:08:32) whatever it might be. And I never (01:08:34) physically hurt anyone, but just like my (01:08:36) behavior, my reactions when I was (01:08:38) younger, it wasn't conscious. It wasn't (01:08:41) healthy and it was based on a wound or (01:08:43) multiple wounds that I didn't know how (01:08:45) to navigate. I didn't know how to heal. (01:08:47) And it wasn't until I was 30 when I (01:08:50) opened up about sexual abuse for the (01:08:52) first time to anyone. (01:08:53) >> Yeah. (01:08:54) >> And I finally was able to release some (01:08:57) of the shame. (01:08:58) >> Yeah. (01:08:59) >> And then I went down the rabbit hole of (01:09:00) studying why I was behaving this way (01:09:03) most of my life. Yeah. (01:09:04) >> How I could start the healing process (01:09:07) and how I could be a better person in (01:09:09) the world. It's the same time when I (01:09:10) launched the school of greatness because (01:09:11) I was like, I need to humble myself. I (01:09:13) need to learn from great men like (01:09:15) yourself who have mastered this or (01:09:17) understand the science of this and how (01:09:20) can I start to apply this to myself? How (01:09:21) can I be a student of life? And I feel (01:09:24) like that's where a lot of young men are (01:09:27) struggling. They don't know how to (01:09:28) manage the emotional, psychological, (01:09:30) spiritual, physical traumas that they've (01:09:32) been through. (01:09:33) >> Yeah. And listen, it may not be as (01:09:35) traumatic as what a lot of people are (01:09:37) going through in the world, but still, (01:09:38) you've got to learn how to overcome it. (01:09:40) >> And when we have the tools like your (01:09:42) book on how to navigate (01:09:45) the wounds that we've all been through, (01:09:47) men and women, I feel like we can become (01:09:50) more peaceful internally. And when we're (01:09:52) peaceful internally, we're usually (01:09:54) better externally. But most men don't (01:09:56) know how to have peace in their heart. (01:09:59) >> Yeah. A lot there. So, (01:10:00) >> what are you hearing me? What opened up (01:10:02) for you there? Well, no, there there's a (01:10:03) lot of I I like a lot of that. Um the (01:10:07) >> So, I would I would reverse engineer a (01:10:10) lot of the world's problems to old men (01:10:12) who won't leave (01:10:13) >> really (01:10:14) >> and they're clinging to power and they (01:10:16) move to autocracy and then they (01:10:18) weaponize young men who have a lack of (01:10:20) economic or romantic possibilities. The (01:10:23) middle class in America, which I think (01:10:24) is the greatest innovation in history, (01:10:26) is an accident. The natural state of a (01:10:29) of being in our species is that a small (01:10:32) number of men through luck, inheritance, (01:10:34) brute strength accrete a (01:10:36) disproportionate amount of power (01:10:38) uh and then get a disproportionate (01:10:40) amount of the economics and the mating (01:10:42) opportunities. 80% of women have (01:10:44) reproduced through modern history, only (01:10:45) 40% of men. And what happens to the 60% (01:10:49) of men who can reproduce is that the (01:10:51) older men who won't leave weaponize (01:10:53) their anger for war or for nationalism. (01:10:57) Right? The most unstable violent (01:10:58) societies in the world have a (01:11:00) disproportionate amount of one thing and (01:11:02) that is young men with a lack of (01:11:03) romantic or economic opportunities. (01:11:05) They're very easily weaponized. (01:11:07) >> Interesting. (01:11:08) >> And we're producing way too many of them (01:11:09) in the United States. (01:11:11) So you have and then going back to your (01:11:15) experience, (01:11:17) you've been I think very brave and (01:11:19) really helpful to a lot of men because (01:11:22) you've been very open about your own (01:11:23) abuse. (01:11:24) But so two 15year-olds, both abused, (01:11:28) right? Both sexually abused, a girl and (01:11:30) a boy. Neither crime is any less or more (01:11:32) heinous. But the studies I've read is (01:11:34) that the boy when he gets older is 7 to (01:11:36) 10 times more likely to engage in self (01:11:39) harm than the girl. Mhm. (01:11:41) >> Yeah. (01:11:42) >> Cuz men those men don't usually have a a (01:11:44) forum of sharing. You know, it's one in (01:11:46) six (01:11:47) >> um men have been sexually abused, one in (01:11:49) four women, I believe, unless I'm (01:11:51) reversing the stat. But um but just (01:11:53) going back to (01:11:56) So what it ends up is that while boys (01:11:59) are physically stronger, they're (01:12:01) emotionally and neurologically much (01:12:03) weaker than girls. Mhm. (01:12:04) >> The moment a boy loses a male role model (01:12:07) at that moment through death, divorce, (01:12:09) abandonment, he becomes more likely to (01:12:11) be incarcerated than graduate from (01:12:13) college. (01:12:13) >> Wow. (01:12:14) >> What's interesting is that in single (01:12:15) parent homes, girls have the same (01:12:17) outcomes as dual parent homes. They're a (01:12:20) little bit more promiscuous because (01:12:21) they're looking for male attention in (01:12:22) the wrong areas. (01:12:23) >> Same rates of college attendance, same (01:12:25) income. A boy, wham. So we just have to (01:12:29) acknowledge that boys are weaker and we (01:12:32) need to create a societal norm where the (01:12:35) moment a boy clearly doesn't have a lot (01:12:37) of male mentorship in his life. Even (01:12:39) saying that boys needed men was (01:12:40) triggering 5 years ago. This (01:12:42) >> they do need men. (01:12:43) >> Those this dialogue has gotten so much (01:12:45) more productive and it's mostly been led (01:12:47) by women who recognize (01:12:50) >> well single single mothers without a man (01:12:52) in the in the home. It's they can (01:12:54) probably see their young boys (01:12:55) struggling. they struggle. But also men (01:12:58) aren't stepping up because in New York (01:13:02) uh and I think at the same approximately (01:13:03) the same numbers in LA, there are three (01:13:05) times as many women applying to be big (01:13:07) sisters as men applying to be big (01:13:08) brothers. (01:13:09) >> Why is that? Just men more selfish and (01:13:11) just don't want to be as generous with (01:13:13) mentorship. (01:13:14) >> I think naturally they're not as (01:13:15) nurturing. And two, (01:13:17) >> I think there's a taboo that say you're (01:13:20) a guy in your 30s and you like the idea (01:13:21) of hanging out and helping a young boy, (01:13:23) you could provide paternal and fraternal (01:13:25) care. You're worried that people are (01:13:27) going to suspect you of being a (01:13:28) pedophile. (01:13:29) >> That's true. That's interesting. (01:13:31) >> So when I was on Bill Maher, I said, you (01:13:34) know, we have an obligation to get (01:13:36) involved in teen's life. And Bill said, (01:13:37) oh, if I get involved in a 15-y old (01:13:38) boy's life, you know, no, no, no. And (01:13:40) the whole audience laughed. I'm like, (01:13:42) that's exactly the problem. Because (01:13:45) there are a lot of men out there that (01:13:47) think, well, one, I don't want anyone to (01:13:49) be suspicious of me, and two, I'm not an (01:13:51) adolescent psychiatrist. I'm not a (01:13:53) baller. (01:13:54) >> That I I can tell you as someone who b (01:13:56) men mentors young men, it is so easy to (01:13:58) add value. (01:13:59) >> Just showing up and playing basketball (01:14:01) at the recck club like for an hour, (01:14:03) >> you have value. (01:14:04) >> Yeah. (01:14:04) >> No, no, no. You can't survive on (01:14:06) pineapple juice and creatine, you know. (01:14:08) No, you you got to you got to spend less (01:14:11) time gaming. No, your mom is not your (01:14:13) enemy. Come on, man. She's on your side. (01:14:16) She may not She may not get it right all (01:14:17) the time, but she's on your side. Like, (01:14:19) oh, you feel like, "What did you eat (01:14:21) today?" Right. Are you exercising? (01:14:23) >> Yeah. You're up till 4 a.m. on the (01:14:25) >> right. Oh, you're really upset you're (01:14:26) not going to to your prom. Did you ask (01:14:28) anybody? (01:14:29) >> Did you ask anybody? All right. Well, (01:14:31) then you're choosing not to go. This is (01:14:34) your choice, right? So, it's so I have (01:14:37) found the easiest job I've ever had was (01:14:40) mentoring young men. They make so many (01:14:43) stupid decisions, Louis. (01:14:44) >> I made a lot of stupid decisions. (01:14:46) >> I mean, just you just start asking them (01:14:48) questions. Why? (01:14:50) >> You got a good job. You just got a job. (01:14:52) Your mom is sick, but you're going to (01:14:54) move to Alaska. Why? I saw this amazing (01:14:57) documentary on Alaska. I'm like, have (01:14:59) you ever been? (01:15:00) >> Why don't we do this? Why don't you save (01:15:02) a little bit of money, take a trip (01:15:03) there, and then decide if you really (01:15:05) want to move to Alaska from Maryland (01:15:07) right now. Is that a good idea? (01:15:09) >> Just a couple questions. And not only (01:15:10) that, (01:15:11) >> they will listen to you. (01:15:13) >> They don't listen to their mom. And (01:15:15) what's weird is sometimes or a lot of (01:15:17) times a boy who's a teenager will listen (01:15:19) more to his dad's friends than to him. (01:15:20) >> Yeah. (01:15:21) >> So, I I just think we need we as men (01:15:24) need to get involved in a boy's life. (01:15:27) That's the single point of failure is (01:15:29) when a boy loses a male role model. And (01:15:32) there's a lot of really wonderful men (01:15:34) out there who maybe don't have their own (01:15:36) families yet, who have a little bit of (01:15:38) spare time and think, you know what, I'd (01:15:39) be pretty good at this and I would enjoy (01:15:41) it. (01:15:42) >> And it's really easy. Big Brothers, (01:15:43) there's a ton of mentorship programs, (01:15:45) but for some reason, (01:15:47) >> men aren't stepping up. (01:15:49) >> I've got a few final questions for you (01:15:51) before we get you out on Bill's show (01:15:52) here today. Um, but what was your (01:15:55) relationship like with your father and (01:15:57) what was the biggest lesson he taught (01:15:59) you that you still apply today? (01:16:03) Generous question. Look, my dad my dad (01:16:06) wasn't very sophisticated. He he got (01:16:08) pulled out of school at the age of 13. I (01:16:09) think he got a lot of validation from (01:16:12) attention and affirmation from women. (01:16:14) And I jokingly say, and it but there's (01:16:16) some truth in it, that being a handsome (01:16:19) man with a Scottish accent in 70s (01:16:21) California meant that he could not only (01:16:23) think with his dick, he could listen to (01:16:24) it. My dad was married and divorced four (01:16:26) times. (01:16:27) >> Wow. (01:16:27) >> He started his that we know of. He (01:16:29) started his third marriage while he was (01:16:30) still with my mom. (01:16:32) >> So my dad quite frankly was just really (01:16:36) had a really tough time with monogamy. (01:16:38) And that wasn't the worst of it. The (01:16:40) thing that really strained my (01:16:42) relationship with my father is that he (01:16:45) was not kind to my mom. (01:16:47) >> And when my parents got divorced, my dad (01:16:52) >> How old were you then? (01:16:52) >> I was nine. (01:16:53) >> Okay. (01:16:54) >> My dad could have made mine and my (01:16:57) mother's life much easier with a little (01:16:59) bit of money. And he didn't. and and not (01:17:02) having your dad around was bad. But a (01:17:04) mom who was financially insecure and (01:17:06) felt emotionally very damaged was just (01:17:09) created a household of constant sort of (01:17:12) you it was like you always had high (01:17:13) blood pressure. You were wondering (01:17:14) >> fight or flight always. (01:17:16) >> Yeah. And she was just very easily (01:17:17) upset. She was a strong woman but she (01:17:19) was dealing with a lot. So I resented my (01:17:23) father for a long time. I used to go for (01:17:25) long periods without speaking to him. (01:17:27) And then the big unlock for me and what (01:17:31) I would recommend for anybody, the (01:17:32) biggest unlock of my life was the (01:17:34) following. (01:17:36) I was constantly keeping score. My dad (01:17:38) wasn't a very wasn't we was an okay dad, (01:17:40) not a very good dad, but I'm not so I'm (01:17:42) not going to be a good son. And then (01:17:44) what I realized is (01:17:45) >> I would get a lot of joy and reward from (01:17:48) having a good relationship with my (01:17:49) father. So the unlock is the following. (01:17:51) Look at your relationships and rather (01:17:53) than having a scorecard, put it away and (01:17:55) say, "What kind of partner do I want to (01:17:57) be? What kind of boss do I want to be? (01:17:59) What kind of son do I want to be? What (01:18:01) kind of brother do I want to be?" And (01:18:03) maybe your sister didn't show up when (01:18:05) your dad was sick. But do I want to be a (01:18:08) loving, generous brother? Yeah, I do. (01:18:12) So, put away the scorecard and just hold (01:18:14) yourself to that standard. And I decided (01:18:16) about 20 or 30 years ago to put away the (01:18:18) resentment of my dad (01:18:20) >> and say I really want to be a loving (01:18:22) generous son. And I have been for the (01:18:23) last 20 or 30 years. My father passed (01:18:25) about four months ago. (01:18:27) >> And my dad mellowed as he got older. He (01:18:29) got more generous. Couldn't couldn't get (01:18:31) off the phone without saying a couple (01:18:33) times that he loved me. Wow. (01:18:34) >> And the first time I heard that when I (01:18:36) was 40, I'm like, (01:18:37) >> "Wow." (01:18:38) >> I'm like, "Dad, I don't need that now. I (01:18:40) could have used it when I was eight, but (01:18:42) then I leaned into it." And so what I (01:18:44) would say is the big learning is people (01:18:46) are flawed. Put away the scorecard. (01:18:49) Decide what kind of what kind of person (01:18:51) you want to be in that relationship. And (01:18:53) the other big learning was my dad (01:18:54) evolved. My dad was a better dad to my (01:18:56) halfsister as daughter by his third (01:18:58) marriage than he was to me. And that's (01:18:59) evolution. (01:19:00) >> That's cool. (01:19:00) >> He got much more loving and kinder as he (01:19:03) got older. Uh so and you know I also (01:19:07) just little things. I've gone entirely (01:19:08) the other way. My dad was so traumatized (01:19:10) by money. He was so cheap. I've gone the (01:19:12) other way. I don't go out unless I can (01:19:14) pay for everybody. Not that I do. (01:19:15) >> Yeah. (01:19:16) >> Because, you know, I'm at a point now (01:19:17) where all my male friends are trying to (01:19:19) show how big their dick is, and we're (01:19:20) all fighting over the check, (01:19:22) >> but [laughter] (01:19:23) but I also am very affectionate with my (01:19:26) boys. My father wasn't very affectionate (01:19:27) with me. I decided I'm taking affection (01:19:29) back. You know, I kissed my boys on the (01:19:31) lips, which they stopped doing when I (01:19:32) was 15. But my best friend, Lee, his (01:19:35) father was this guy, Lee Lotus Jr., who (01:19:37) was this the guy looked like Bert (01:19:38) Reynolds. And when he'd come pick up Lee (01:19:40) at college, UCLA, he'd walk in to the (01:19:43) fraternity or to Leah's apartment and (01:19:45) he'd roll up this big handsome guy and (01:19:48) Lee was a big handsome guy and they'd (01:19:50) kiss and it just seemed so natural. I (01:19:52) guess that's Italian. So yeah, just real (01:19:54) real quick. I kiss (01:19:56) >> and I'm like, "Wow, I like whoa." And I (01:20:00) remember thinking if Bertr Reynolds can (01:20:01) kiss his kid, his son, so can I. So, I'm (01:20:05) I'm really one thing I got going the (01:20:08) other way was I got a lot of affection. (01:20:11) I decided to be very affectionate with (01:20:12) my boys. And two, (01:20:13) >> that's cool. (01:20:14) >> Um I make my living like you telling (01:20:17) stories and a lot of that is not my (01:20:19) fault. I got a lot of that DNA from my (01:20:21) father. My father can hold a room like (01:20:23) nobody. And so there's no reason not to (01:20:25) be grateful. Like you're big and huge (01:20:27) and good-looking. Like there's no reason (01:20:29) not to be grateful to your parents. Even (01:20:31) though they didn't go out of their way (01:20:32) to give it to you, they did. And so (01:20:35) there's no reason not to be grateful. (01:20:37) Like, God, I got I got this skill from (01:20:39) my father. So (01:20:40) >> you're alive because of him. (01:20:41) >> There you go. (01:20:42) >> You want to be here. (01:20:43) >> Life helps. But the big unlock for me (01:20:46) >> was put away the scorecard. Just be the (01:20:49) man in the relationship you want to be (01:20:50) and hold yourself to that standard. (01:20:52) >> Is there anything you wish you would (01:20:54) have said or he would have said or any (01:20:56) interactions you wish you would have had (01:20:57) with your father? (01:20:58) >> No. (01:21:00) The nice thing about my relationship (01:21:02) with my father, my father lived to be (01:21:03) 95. Nothing nothing went unsaid. That's (01:21:06) beautiful. We were (01:21:08) >> very emotional with each other, very (01:21:10) emotive. (01:21:11) >> He was constantly couldn't stop telling (01:21:13) me how proud he was of me. (01:21:15) >> That's nice. (01:21:15) >> Yeah, it was really nice. Um, (01:21:17) >> it may have been a rough childhood (01:21:19) seeing, you know, him go with different (01:21:21) women and abandon your mom in that way, (01:21:23) but (01:21:23) >> Were your parents together or were they (01:21:24) divorced? (01:21:25) >> They were together. They got divorced (01:21:26) when I was a teenager. So, (01:21:28) >> but they were they never showed each (01:21:29) other love. So, they were there. They (01:21:32) showed us kids love. I was the youngest (01:21:33) of four, (01:21:34) >> but they were constantly fighting and it (01:21:36) was very emotionally it didn't feel safe (01:21:38) at home. I left home at 13. I begged (01:21:40) them to send me away to a boarding (01:21:42) school. They didn't want me to leave. (01:21:43) >> Right. You want (01:21:44) >> My brother just got out of prison from (01:21:46) four years. It was very traumatic going (01:21:47) to a visiting room of a prison every (01:21:49) weekend. I didn't have any friends for (01:21:52) four years because you're in a small (01:21:53) town in Ohio. Everyone knew in the (01:21:55) neighborhood that my brother had been to (01:21:56) prison. So the parents wouldn't let (01:21:58) their kids hang out with me. (01:22:00) >> Yeah. (01:22:00) >> My parents were financially struggling, (01:22:02) stressed. They weren't showing, you (01:22:04) know, affection or love. It was just (01:22:05) anger. It was sadness. (01:22:07) >> That's right. (01:22:07) >> So, we had a home. It's not like I was (01:22:09) homeless. Um, I was going to school, but (01:22:12) it was like (01:22:13) >> it was just not emotionally (01:22:16) safe feeling. I didn't feel physically (01:22:20) like I wasn't under harm, but (01:22:21) emotionally it just didn't feel safe. (01:22:24) >> Yeah. Look, (01:22:26) >> they were doing their best, you know? (01:22:27) It's like they only had the tools they (01:22:29) had. So, (01:22:29) >> yeah. And it's good that at some point (01:22:32) you just forgive them, right? If they (01:22:33) tried. I think the box every parent (01:22:35) needs to check is to be a better dad or (01:22:38) mom to you than your father or your (01:22:39) mother was to you. And my dad checked (01:22:41) that box. (01:22:42) >> And you know, there's a lot, (01:22:46) you know, that I took from that (01:22:49) relationship. And also when your parents (01:22:51) get divorced as mine did, you have a (01:22:52) tendency to sanctify once and demonize (01:22:55) the other. You have a tendency to go one (01:22:57) was wrong, one was right. (01:22:59) >> And what you realize is neither is (01:23:01) perfect. (01:23:02) >> But the reality is Lewis is that my dad (01:23:04) and it was a different age. My dad kind (01:23:06) of left it when I was nine. He moved to (01:23:08) Ohio. I didn't see him a lot and that (01:23:11) was not ideal. Uh fortunately, I had a (01:23:15) lot of men. I'm doing this live thing (01:23:16) tonight downtown in LA and I've invited (01:23:18) two of my mentor two men who got (01:23:21) involved in my life randomly when I was (01:23:22) a kid and I reached out to him. They're (01:23:24) in their 70s and 80s and said will you (01:23:26) come to this thing tonight? (01:23:27) >> That's cool. Um, you know, one was a (01:23:29) stock bro. I I I my mom's boyfriend gave (01:23:32) me 200 bucks and said, "Go to one of (01:23:35) those fancy." I started asking about (01:23:36) stocks and he said, "Here's $200. Go to (01:23:38) those fancy brokerages in Westwood." And (01:23:40) I walked him with $200 at the age of 13. (01:23:42) >> Like, what do I do? (01:23:42) >> Into Dean Witter. And I said, "Hi, I (01:23:44) have $200." And they said, "Wait here." (01:23:46) And this guy with this Jewro came out (01:23:48) named Sci. And he goes, "I'm Scarero." (01:23:50) And he took me back to his cubicle and (01:23:51) he gave me my first lesson in the stock (01:23:53) market. And he said, "When there's more (01:23:55) buyers and sellers, the sellers raise (01:23:57) the price until there's fewer buyers." (01:24:00) He gave me the first lesson. And then I (01:24:01) came back the next day and he said, "All (01:24:03) right, let's look at some stocks." He's (01:24:04) like, "What are you interested in?" I'm (01:24:05) like, "Well, I love the movies." And (01:24:07) Close Encounters is the third kind of (01:24:09) just come out. And he said, "Okay, (01:24:10) Columbia Pictures is the company that (01:24:12) made it. It's a stock." We bought 16 (01:24:14) shares of Columbia Pictures for like 12 (01:24:17) bucks a pop. And every day for two (01:24:19) years, I used to go into the pay phone (01:24:22) booth in Emerson, put in my two dimes (01:24:24) and call to check in on my stocks. And (01:24:26) once or twice a week, I'd go into the (01:24:28) Dean Witter Reynolds office in Westwood (01:24:30) and he'd give me another lesson on (01:24:32) stocks. And he used to call my mom and (01:24:35) he wasn't trying to sell her. We had no (01:24:36) money. And he would just say nice things (01:24:38) about me to my mom. And I used to hang (01:24:39) out with this guy at his office for a (01:24:42) couple years until I went to high (01:24:43) school. And this is a flex, but I'll (01:24:46) make it. I've made a lot of money (01:24:48) starting and selling companies. I've (01:24:50) made (01:24:52) tens of millions of dollars investing in (01:24:54) stocks. I've been investing in stocks (01:24:56) since I was 13 because of size Sarah. (01:24:58) >> Wow. (01:24:59) >> So, in addition to giving me like some (01:25:01) confidence that this nice impressive man (01:25:04) liked me, uh, you know, it taught me (01:25:07) this incredible life skill around (01:25:09) investing. So, (01:25:11) >> is he coming tonight? Is he coming (01:25:12) tonight? (01:25:12) >> Yeah, he's coming tonight. (01:25:13) >> That's cool. (01:25:13) >> Yeah. First time I've seen him in (01:25:16) 45 years. (01:25:17) >> No way. (01:25:18) >> Yeah, we stay in contact over text. (01:25:20) >> You haven't seen him? (01:25:21) >> I haven't seen him in 45 years. (01:25:22) >> That's incredible. You see him tonight? (01:25:24) >> Nice. I'm gonna see him tonight. Yeah, (01:25:25) >> that is cool. Send me a photo of it. (01:25:28) >> But I was really lucky. I had I had this (01:25:32) this guy and his girlfriend noticed that (01:25:34) my mom and I, you know, it was just my (01:25:35) mom and I one day knocked on our door (01:25:37) and he said, "Does your son want to come (01:25:38) horseback riding with us?" And he and (01:25:40) his girlfriend used to take me horseback (01:25:42) riding. And just having men in your life (01:25:45) that can give you a little bit of (01:25:46) advice. And not only that, just give you (01:25:48) the sense you have value. (01:25:50) >> Yes. (01:25:51) >> Uh I think is is huge. But anyways, back (01:25:54) to you know, it sound it sounds like (01:25:56) when did your dad pass? (01:25:58) >> Three years ago. Yeah. (01:25:59) >> Yeah. So look, you you I think as you (01:26:02) get older, you try and focus on the good (01:26:04) things. (01:26:05) >> Yes. You try and forgive your dad and (01:26:07) whatever you think he got wrong, you try (01:26:10) and course correct around for your own (01:26:12) boys. I think that's the basis of trying (01:26:15) to be more human, evolve, (01:26:17) >> but the one thing (01:26:20) >> the one thing I would (01:26:22) >> I mean there I've had five one things, (01:26:24) but the thing I really took away from my (01:26:26) father, his real flaw that quite frankly (01:26:29) was not great for me and took some time (01:26:32) to repair. I think the best thing you (01:26:34) can do for boys is just treat their (01:26:36) mother really well. They just see it. I (01:26:39) really I really go out of my way. I take (01:26:42) some real arrows from my wife sometimes (01:26:44) in front of the boys. (01:26:46) >> I really try to demonstrate (01:26:49) emotional and emotion and affection (01:26:51) around her. I defer to her judgment in (01:26:53) front of the boys. (01:26:54) >> I just try to make sure the boys know (01:26:57) that their mother is really valuable and (01:26:59) they see it by the way I treat her. I (01:27:01) think that's going to create much more (01:27:04) healthy relationships for them. I think (01:27:06) that's the best thing you can do for (01:27:07) your boys is just treat your even if (01:27:09) you're divorced, (01:27:10) >> just be really good to the mother. Uh uh (01:27:14) cuz my dad wasn't and I think it really (01:27:16) quite frankly damaged my relationship (01:27:19) probably with women or maybe maybe I'm (01:27:22) just like a lot of people looking for (01:27:23) trauma from my parents and I'm just a (01:27:24) selfish person. But I think I could have (01:27:26) been kinder to women when I was a young (01:27:28) man. I don't think my dad was a great (01:27:29) role model for that. (01:27:30) >> Yeah. You mentioned earlier and we got (01:27:32) to wrap it up here in a few minutes for (01:27:33) you, but you mentioned earlier (01:27:35) >> that your dad used to watch Bill Bill (01:27:37) Maher all the time. All the time, (01:27:39) favorite show. And you're going to go on (01:27:41) there here in a couple hours, you know, (01:27:42) right down the street. (01:27:44) >> Um, and you said every time you go on (01:27:46) there, you get a little nervous but also (01:27:47) excited because you feel like he's (01:27:49) watching. (01:27:50) >> I almost get a panic attack every I do a (01:27:52) lot of TV. I do a lot of speaking in (01:27:55) front of, you know, I'm flexing (01:27:57) thousands of people. I freaked the out (01:28:00) on that show, Lewis, because I think my (01:28:02) dad's watching. (01:28:03) >> Wow. (01:28:03) >> And my dad watched Premier League (01:28:05) football and Bill Maher. That's it. (01:28:08) >> What is the What is the message? You (01:28:10) know, you're about to go in there, so (01:28:12) I'm going to ground you for a moment. (01:28:14) What's the message (01:28:15) >> that you really want to make sure you (01:28:17) land no matter where Bill takes you all (01:28:19) over the place. What would you really (01:28:21) like to land that if your dad's watching (01:28:24) you feel like will be really special (01:28:26) that you get to share a specific (01:28:27) message? (01:28:29) >> Well, the message I would want if I (01:28:31) could wrap my arms around all young men (01:28:33) and just just give them a mission and (01:28:38) and just trust me on this. Trust me, you (01:28:41) know, search your feelings. You know (01:28:42) this to be true. it would be really try (01:28:45) to resist the temptation (01:28:48) to live your life on a screen with an (01:28:49) algorithm and that at the end of your (01:28:53) life or even in your 20s and 30s (01:28:56) >> Mhm. The anxiety and loneliness (01:29:00) you're going to you're going to feel (01:29:03) without establishing relationships and (01:29:05) taking those risks (01:29:07) is going to be so much greater than any (01:29:10) fear you might have around what lays (01:29:14) beyond that room. And that is there is a (01:29:17) there is an enormous correlation between (01:29:20) the amount of the ratio of time you (01:29:22) spend in the presence of other people (01:29:24) versus the time you spend on a screen. (01:29:27) >> I don't think we've really come to grips (01:29:28) with the fact that young men are up (01:29:31) against an indomitable foe, a big tech (01:29:34) that literally makes billions for every (01:29:37) additional minute they can get you on (01:29:39) your phone and away from friends, (01:29:41) mentors, and mates. Get out of the (01:29:44) house. Take risks. Express friendship. (01:29:47) Express romantic relationship. Apply for (01:29:49) jobs you're not qualified for. (01:29:52) >> You know, take as many shots as you can, (01:29:55) >> but get, for God's sakes, get out of the (01:29:57) house. (01:29:58) >> Yeah. Get out. Notes on being a man. (01:30:00) Number one New York Times bestseller. (01:30:02) Make sure you guys grab a copy right (01:30:03) now. Uh follow you on all of your (01:30:06) podcasts. You're all over the place, but (01:30:08) you've got podcasts on money, on (01:30:10) everything, life, politics, all these (01:30:13) different places. What's the best place (01:30:14) to follow you specifically? (01:30:16) >> I'm like AOL in the 90s. I'm I'm You put (01:30:18) your hand into a cereal box, you're (01:30:19) going to grab me. So, um, to resist is (01:30:22) feudal. I am overexposed at this point. (01:30:24) I have, as you mentioned, I have (01:30:26) podcasts. I have a newsletter called No (01:30:27) Mercy No Malice. ProphetGalloway.com. (01:30:29) You'll see if you're interested, a ton (01:30:30) of ways to get my content. (01:30:32) >> Awesome. This is an awesome book and you (01:30:34) got a great show and great content. I (01:30:36) want to acknowledge you, Scott, for (01:30:37) taking on this subject because I know (01:30:39) it's not easy and there's a lot of push (01:30:40) back on talking about vulnerability and (01:30:43) masculinity and all these things. I felt (01:30:45) it for years when I started to open up (01:30:47) about this stuff. So, I acknowledge you (01:30:48) for doing it because (01:30:49) >> I think we're even more at risk now than (01:30:51) we were seven, eight years ago with (01:30:53) younger boys not having the tools to be (01:30:57) out in the world (01:30:58) >> to develop relationships, to look other (01:31:00) people in the eye and just have a (01:31:02) conversation, let alone build a (01:31:04) relationship. (01:31:05) >> And so, I acknowledge you for speaking (01:31:07) up, for taking on the criticism you take (01:31:09) for sharing these things as well, (01:31:12) because we need more great male leaders (01:31:15) sharing this information. so younger men (01:31:18) can be inspired and hopefully take (01:31:20) action. And I hope everyone gets a copy (01:31:22) of this book and and gives it to a young (01:31:24) man in their life as well or an old man (01:31:26) who needs some lessons and learning as (01:31:27) well. Um, I asked you these two (01:31:29) questions before. I'm just going to ask (01:31:30) one of them. I asked you before the (01:31:32) definition of greatness. So, I'll have (01:31:34) people go back and watch that (01:31:35) >> from our previous episode. But this is (01:31:37) uh a question I asked you as well called (01:31:39) the three truths. (01:31:40) >> Mhm. (01:31:40) >> After writing this book now and being at (01:31:42) this stage of life (01:31:44) >> where your father has recently passed. (01:31:46) Mhm. (01:31:46) >> What would you say are three things you (01:31:49) would leave behind if this was the last (01:31:51) day on earth for you many years away and (01:31:54) we would not have access to any of your (01:31:56) content, but you got to leave behind (01:31:59) three lessons to the world. What would (01:32:00) those three lessons be that you would (01:32:03) leave behind? (01:32:05) >> Well, I I I it's it's sort of an (01:32:08) indirect way of answering, but I think (01:32:09) of the tombstone test. What three words (01:32:11) would you want on your tombstone? (01:32:13) Uh, I'd want to be known as a generous (01:32:15) person who created more value than I (01:32:17) absorbed. That's the whole point. Like, (01:32:20) if you leave the world having provided (01:32:21) more love, more economic opportunity, (01:32:24) noticing people more than maybe you (01:32:26) absorb through your life, that's the (01:32:27) whole point. You've won. So, I'd want to (01:32:29) be known as generous. (01:32:30) >> I'd want to be known as patriotic. You (01:32:32) know, smartest thing I ever did, Lewis, (01:32:34) was to be born in America. M (01:32:36) >> I want to reinvest in America and help (01:32:39) make sure that many of the amazing (01:32:40) things that helped me, state sponsored (01:32:42) education, PEL grants, I got assisted (01:32:45) lunch, uh you know, America loved (01:32:48) unremarkable people when I was growing (01:32:50) up and I worry it's falling out of love (01:32:51) with the unremarkable. So I I would like (01:32:53) to be hopefully seen as someone who's (01:32:54) patriotic. And then the final thing I (01:32:57) just want to be seen as, you know, a (01:32:58) dad. I was that I was really into my (01:33:01) sons (01:33:03) >> and and that it was clear that later in (01:33:05) life I saw my purpose as raising (01:33:08) patriotic loving men. That that was, you (01:33:10) know, so (01:33:11) >> generous, patriotic dad. That's what I (01:33:13) aspire to. (01:33:14) >> Love it. (01:33:14) >> I still got some work to do. (01:33:15) >> No, man. Thanks. (01:33:16) >> Thanks, brother. Congratulations on (01:33:17) everything. (01:33:18) >> Thank you, brother. Appreciate it, man. (01:33:19) >> I had this mentor, [music] John. One of (01:33:21) the things he did to me that was really (01:33:23) strange. He says to me, "Dan, you're (01:33:24) going to be on my sales team. [music] (01:33:26) you need to be making a h 100red grand a (01:33:28) year or I'm going to fire you. So I had (01:33:29) this kind of like weird [music] look on (01:33:31) my face. He goes, "You're not going to (01:33:32) make 100 grand a year. You're not going (01:33:33) to succeed. You think 50 grand is out of (01:33:35) your reach. So 100 grand's like you (01:33:37) haven't even considered that. You've