Joe Calhoon Podcast with Tom Blasco (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) Tell Joe to shut up. (00:00:02) >> Tom, your zipper's down. (00:00:05) >> You're funny. (00:00:06) >> I know. I like I said, I like the funny. (00:00:09) >> Okay, so how do we kick this off? What (00:00:12) do we say? (00:00:13) >> Almost. What do we say at the beginning? (00:00:16) >> Hi, this is Joe Calhoun. Thank you for (00:00:17) joining us for our podcast today. Our (00:00:19) special guest is Tom Blasco. Tom, you (00:00:22) and I have known each other for 37 (00:00:23) years. You're still looking pretty good. (00:00:25) >> Yeah, well, you're not doing too bad (00:00:27) yourself, Joe. One thing you might do, (00:00:29) think of it in terms of maybe this is (00:00:32) the fir first episode that somebody (00:00:33) sees. So just introduce the name of the (00:00:35) podcast, you know, where we talk. (00:00:37) >> What is the name of the podcast? (00:00:38) >> Well, the name of the book, (00:00:40) >> right? (00:00:42) >> Okay. (00:00:43) >> Like you just told Tom. (00:00:44) >> Okay. (00:00:44) >> I would say that if it, you know, (00:00:47) >> God is speaking, are we listening? (00:00:49) >> Yeah. (00:00:49) >> Yeah. Okay. Good. (00:00:50) >> Yeah. So just set that up because (00:00:52) somebody this is the first time they, (00:00:54) you know, maybe Tom shares this at some (00:00:56) point. I think what we do is we put when (00:00:59) we do these I think we put God is (00:01:01) speaking our list presented by real (00:01:03) media. This I want this to promote real (00:01:05) media as much or more than it promotes (00:01:08) me (00:01:09) >> but not as much as we're promoting God (00:01:11) and his holy spirit and his word. (00:01:13) >> So that that'll be on the we can put (00:01:15) that on the open on that (00:01:16) >> and we got time to do that. Yeah. (00:01:18) >> These are two these are two rock stars. (00:01:20) Tom and Rod are two of my favorite guys (00:01:22) on the planet. I mean this is big time (00:01:24) today. (00:01:25) >> Such a small world. Let's just (00:01:27) >> Isn't it? Yeah. (00:01:28) >> Okay. Ready? Let's do it. Yeah. (00:01:29) >> All right. All right. You're rolling in (00:01:31) here, Carly. (00:01:32) >> Okay. Hang on a minute. (00:01:36) >> I'm going to pull something up real (00:01:37) quick if I can. (00:01:49) >> Well, I can't find it. Let me turn this (00:01:51) off. (00:01:52) >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Let me do the same with (00:01:54) mine. Good idea. (00:01:57) [Music] (00:02:00) I think I'm just going to turn this off, (00:02:02) too. (00:02:07) Let me mute this. (00:02:10) Power off. Power off. (00:02:13) Okay, (00:02:15) Tom, I'm going to roll. (00:02:19) Go. (00:02:19) >> Hi, this is Joe Callahoon. Welcome to (00:02:21) our podcast. God is speaking. Are we (00:02:24) listening? Our special guest today is (00:02:26) Tom Blasco. Tom, we've known each other (00:02:29) for 37 years. (00:02:30) >> Yes, sir. (00:02:31) >> You're still looking pretty good, my (00:02:32) friend. (00:02:33) >> Oh, you're you're you're you're right (00:02:34) there with me, buddy. I'm (00:02:36) >> hanging in there. (00:02:36) >> You are, man. (00:02:39) >> Oh gosh, Tom. So good to have you here. (00:02:41) >> Good to be here, Joe. (00:02:42) >> Um, so in the almost four decades that (00:02:46) we've known each other, I'm not sure I (00:02:47) know much about you before that. (00:02:51) >> You wouldn't want to know. (00:02:54) inquiring minds do want to know. (00:02:56) >> Okay. Okay. We'll go there then. (00:02:57) >> So, let's go there. You know, where were (00:02:59) you, you know, tell us about your (00:03:01) birthplace and and what it was like (00:03:03) growing up and some of those early (00:03:05) childhood, maybe some great memories or (00:03:08) even some struggles or adversities. Tell (00:03:09) us a little bit about yourself starting (00:03:11) at the beginning. (00:03:12) >> Okay. Well, um, man, there's all kinds (00:03:15) of things. I was, uh, I'm a lifelong (00:03:17) resident of Kansas City. (00:03:18) >> Born and raised here, lived here all my (00:03:20) life. uh love Kansas City and uh when I (00:03:23) was about uh one one and a half years (00:03:26) old, my father passed from cancer (00:03:28) >> and uh you know I I didn't know anything (00:03:31) about that. Um and so um again, you (00:03:36) don't miss what you don't have. So I (00:03:37) grew up my mom was a a single mom, but (00:03:39) she loved God. And uh kind of a story (00:03:42) behind that a little bit too is my mom (00:03:44) had numerous miscarriages. I had a older (00:03:47) brother that was a baby that died and (00:03:50) and so um when I was born I was a preeie (00:03:53) and I wouldn't eat. Uh I've made up for (00:03:55) it now though, Joe. Made up for it now. (00:03:58) But uh she prayed to God and said, "God, (00:04:01) if you let this one live, I'll give him (00:04:03) to you." (00:04:04) >> Which again, she's telling me the story (00:04:05) on my life. Anyway, so that we'll go (00:04:07) back to that. But bottom line is I was (00:04:09) raised in Kansas City and um I I always (00:04:12) felt a sense of you know uh calling on (00:04:16) my life and didn't know quite what that (00:04:18) meant. But um any rate so I I was raised (00:04:21) a Christian. I I accepted Christ at an (00:04:23) early age but uh I really didn't know (00:04:26) much about him or the Bible or lived (00:04:28) with him. Went to a lurggical church and (00:04:29) they don't really teach a whole lot (00:04:31) about a personal relationship with God. (00:04:33) >> But somehow my mom had one. At any rate, (00:04:36) bottom line is um I uh uh grew up uh and (00:04:42) there came a point in my life when you (00:04:44) know the the hippie movement came (00:04:45) through and I kind of looked at that and (00:04:48) my brother was always in bands. Uh we (00:04:50) came from a musical family. My mom wrote (00:04:53) the lyrics to a song called My (00:04:54) Happiness. It's interesting thing. It (00:04:56) was a hit for over 300 people recorded (00:04:59) it. But uh interesting nuance about that (00:05:02) uh in it was the first song Elvis (00:05:04) Presley ever recorded. His mom is that (00:05:07) crazy? His mom loved that song. So he (00:05:10) recorded it uh when he was a truck (00:05:11) driver. Went into Sun Studios there and (00:05:14) uh did this kind of a demo thing to see (00:05:17) if he, you know, could be a singer. So (00:05:21) bottom line is, uh he recorded that and (00:05:24) nobody knew about it because it was just (00:05:25) a personal gift to Elvis's mother. So (00:05:28) after he died, they had an assetate of (00:05:30) it. They they you know published it (00:05:32) posthumously and all this stuff. So my (00:05:35) mom actually met Elvis. He came to town (00:05:37) and uh he hugged (00:05:39) >> was that where Sun Studios was that (00:05:41) Mexico somewhere or (00:05:42) >> I think No, I think it's Tennessee (00:05:43) there. Yeah, Memphis. It's called Sun (00:05:45) Studios and a lot of (00:05:46) >> Right in Memphis's hometown. Yeah. (00:05:49) So, you know, that was kind of I think I (00:05:52) don't think it was kind of it was (00:05:53) providential because that uh the she (00:05:55) owned the publishing rights to that and (00:05:57) that's what raised me, you know, and so (00:05:59) uh (00:05:59) >> she got a check now and then from that. (00:06:02) >> Yes, sir. (00:06:03) >> And it sounds like she also had a (00:06:04) relationship with God and her (00:06:06) relationship with you made your (00:06:09) relationship with God possible. (00:06:11) >> Well said. Well said, Joe. You have just (00:06:14) have such a good way of summarizing (00:06:16) things. Correct. (00:06:18) Well, uh, musical family, brother in (00:06:20) bands, I was in garage bands. My brother (00:06:22) went on to be a professional musician, (00:06:24) but so that's kind of the culture of the (00:06:25) home I was in. And, um, so then the (00:06:28) hippie movement came with all the great (00:06:30) music of 60s7s. Oh man, the music, you (00:06:33) know, we went to concerts back then for (00:06:34) the music. But any rate, not for the (00:06:36) lights or anything. It's just, but any (00:06:37) rate, bottom line is, um, I kind of (00:06:40) looked at the whole hippie movement. Um, (00:06:43) it just it just left a deep hole in my (00:06:45) heart, you know. So, what rocked my (00:06:47) world is there's this guy at work and um (00:06:50) his name was Danny Taylor and he cut his (00:06:52) hair, quit smoking weed and his life was (00:06:54) changed. I thought, what happened to (00:06:56) Danny? (00:06:58) We used to have fun together. What (00:06:59) what's going on with you? (00:07:02) So, he was still fun, but at the end of (00:07:03) the day is he uh accepted Christ in his (00:07:06) heart and life. So, we start getting (00:07:07) these religious arguments (00:07:09) and uh but he would challenge me on my (00:07:12) beliefs and I'd argue with him, but in (00:07:14) the my personal time, I think, well, (00:07:15) he's got a point there. Bottom line is (00:07:17) went down to this Bible study and um I (00:07:21) it's what I'd been looking for. There (00:07:22) were these people that loved God. (00:07:24) January youth is a and they were praying (00:07:28) and I in sincerity and I felt God's (00:07:31) presence not in an emotional way but (00:07:33) there's just this how can you describe (00:07:35) God's presence when you walk in a room (00:07:37) and this guy anyway bottom line is they (00:07:39) prayed for me for this um (00:07:42) experience called what the Bible calls (00:07:43) the baptism in the Holy Spirit being (00:07:45) filled with the Holy Spirit. And so I (00:07:48) had no idea how that would rock my (00:07:51) world. I just wanted God. I wanted I (00:07:54) didn't know all the I just lay hands on (00:07:55) me, pray, sure guys, have at it. You (00:07:57) know, I need So, uh, end of the day, I (00:08:00) remember walking out. This is where my (00:08:01) head was at and just out of the lit up a (00:08:04) cigarette thought, man, that was really (00:08:06) cool. (00:08:08) And, you know, anyway, bottom line is (00:08:10) God just began to rock my world and I (00:08:12) grew in faith with him and I without (00:08:14) taking a lot of time pursued a call that (00:08:16) God had on my life. uh went to this (00:08:18) church then that um was kind of like (00:08:21) that movie. What's that movie, Joe? (00:08:23) Where that uh guy in California um it (00:08:26) was Chuck Smith's church and Oh, yeah. (00:08:28) >> You know what I'm talking about. (00:08:30) >> It was the uh story of the early days of (00:08:32) the Jesus movement, which you and I both (00:08:35) brought up at the same time. We're born (00:08:36) in the same year. (00:08:38) >> U peace and love sounded really good. (00:08:41) Yes. (00:08:41) >> The hippie movement left it shallow. (00:08:44) Pursuing Jesus made it full and (00:08:48) lifegiving. Yes. And and obviously the (00:08:51) Holy Spirit's in us when we accept (00:08:53) Christ. But you are being filled with (00:08:55) the Holy Spirit with a greater passion. (00:08:57) And that's interesting the way that (00:08:58) goes. You start developing some habits (00:09:01) getting closer and then you get closer (00:09:03) and then you get closer and pretty soon (00:09:04) it's this snowball effect. Yes, sir. (00:09:07) that created I got goosebumps thinking (00:09:09) about what that was like for you and me (00:09:11) and so many people that are listening to (00:09:13) this have had that same experience. (00:09:16) >> Yes, sir. (00:09:16) >> And um so then Danny Danny (00:09:21) Danny's the guy. (00:09:22) >> Danny's the guy. (00:09:24) >> Danny Danny brought you across the the (00:09:26) finish line and said, "Okay, I'm giving (00:09:29) up that old life and there's a new (00:09:31) life." And I'm sure that there were (00:09:33) moments of peaks and valleys in that. (00:09:36) >> Can you kind of help us out understand (00:09:38) what was that like in the early days of (00:09:40) being a Christian? (00:09:42) >> First it was glorious. I um and it's all (00:09:47) along it was I found something I was (00:09:49) deeply searching for. Um and that was it (00:09:53) really was it sounds corny now but love (00:09:55) and peace, you know. (00:09:57) uh don't want to go into all of this, (00:09:59) but um you know, my dad died, my mom had (00:10:02) this gal come in as a distant cousin, (00:10:04) and she was basically cruel and abusive. (00:10:06) >> And so I was really looking for family, (00:10:09) for love, for and all a sudden there's (00:10:11) all these people you feel loves God and (00:10:13) the love of God. So anyway, but uh my (00:10:16) mom was in in a strict lurggical church (00:10:19) and felt it was the only way. So she (00:10:22) wasn't real excited about my newfound (00:10:24) religion is what she called. Yeah. And (00:10:26) so uh she began to just you know I was (00:10:28) living at home at that time I was what (00:10:29) 18 19 you know so that was kind of hard (00:10:33) you know because there was you know (00:10:35) there's just some real friction there (00:10:37) >> which was disheartening (00:10:39) >> and so u I I I know that kind of I went (00:10:42) through and then um so I moved out and (00:10:44) I'm trying to find what I'm supposed to (00:10:45) do in life and (00:10:48) you know uh trying to seek God's (00:10:50) guidance in all of that and I thought (00:10:51) man I want to do something with the Lord (00:10:53) and but I don't know what maybe I should (00:10:54) finish I had two years of college. Maybe (00:10:56) I should get a sociology degree. I just (00:10:57) didn't know. And you know, my family was (00:11:00) kind of saying you're an idiot for, you (00:11:02) know, being a Christian basically. And (00:11:05) you know, so there's a lot of pressure (00:11:06) there, Joe. Um uh and uh you know, but (00:11:09) you those things kind of make you (00:11:11) stronger. (00:11:12) >> It's just kind of like, you know, if you (00:11:13) want strong muscles, you do push-ups. (00:11:15) There's resistance, there's resistance. (00:11:16) So (00:11:17) >> sometimes the things we think that um (00:11:20) you know, are hurtful are actually (00:11:22) helping us grow character. such an (00:11:25) important message, (00:11:27) >> but that had to be hard for you. Here I (00:11:29) have the most exhilarating relationship (00:11:31) with my in my life. My mom was that (00:11:35) relationship and now I'm have it with (00:11:38) Jesus and his Holy Spirit. (00:11:40) >> Yes. And yet I'm being separated in a (00:11:42) way because the two different types of (00:11:46) um service that you were attending and (00:11:50) the expressions (00:11:52) >> of of of your more charismatic if you (00:11:55) will. (00:11:55) >> Yes. (00:11:56) >> And your mom a little more buttoned up (00:11:58) and a little more (00:12:00) >> conservative if I could use that word. (00:12:03) You both knew Jesus and and and then it (00:12:07) when did you and your mom get back (00:12:09) together again and and strengthen that (00:12:12) relationship? (00:12:13) >> Well, (00:12:15) am I sorry I asked that question? (00:12:17) >> Yeah, that's a long story. I don't got (00:12:18) time if I can bottom line you. Um it got (00:12:21) to where I thought and God works (00:12:23) everything. It's like I at one point she (00:12:25) says you can't have your Christian (00:12:26) friends over here and you know I'm 19 20 (00:12:28) years old and I thought well wait a (00:12:30) minute you know this no it's time it's (00:12:33) time to fly the nest you know so went (00:12:36) and uh lived with about three other (00:12:38) Christian we call it brothers we had (00:12:39) this thing called the Jesus house back (00:12:41) then we had Bible studies there and it's (00:12:43) kind of a disciplehip thing you move in (00:12:44) with a married couple and you know uh (00:12:47) there's a married couple that was kind (00:12:48) of over the house and two or three other (00:12:49) single guys and we all kind of so any (00:12:51) rate um basically got married. My mom (00:12:54) wasn't excited about that because she (00:12:56) thought the answer to her prayer was (00:12:58) this is kind of interesting in guidance (00:12:59) is you know that um she prayed and in (00:13:03) her mind I'm supposed to be a priest. (00:13:05) I'm giving this one to God. So when I (00:13:08) started dating and I'm interested in (00:13:10) girls you know all of a sudden you know (00:13:13) she's shields up. He's supposed to be a (00:13:15) priest. But so then when I started (00:13:18) dating Megan, my wife um who we (00:13:21) celebrated 50 years of marriage, but uh (00:13:24) she wasn't keen on that idea. So there's (00:13:27) a lot of friction there. (00:13:29) >> So end of the day uh sto short story um (00:13:34) you know because she thought I was (00:13:35) rebelling against God. But the (00:13:36) interesting thing about that is God (00:13:38) answered the prayer of her heart, not of (00:13:41) her expectations. (00:13:43) And so I think that's a key thing to (00:13:45) sometimes learn. We have this (00:13:46) expectation of how God's her expectation (00:13:48) was priest. God's expectation was pastor (00:13:52) >> and I've lived my whole life because of (00:13:53) her prayers, but it it didn't come out (00:13:56) like she expected. So (00:13:58) >> when did it heal? Well, after we got (00:13:59) married, um uh just long story short, (00:14:03) again, talk about trials and stuff, she (00:14:05) didn't attend our wedding because she (00:14:06) thought I was rebelling against God. I (00:14:08) mean, it it was not fun. I know. (00:14:11) >> I had no idea. That was not fun. (00:14:14) >> And so, uh, we did everything we could (00:14:17) do to pick her up. I put off my wedding. (00:14:19) I said, I get married by the pastor of (00:14:20) your church. I'll do, you know, you work (00:14:22) try to work. We put off our marriage a (00:14:25) year to try to pick her up. Didn't (00:14:27) happen. Didn't happen. But again, God (00:14:29) was putting character in me, you know, (00:14:31) >> and so, uh, basically about a year and a (00:14:33) half after we were married, uh, my mom (00:14:35) just started realizing, hey, um, I'm (00:14:38) going to lose this kid in our (00:14:39) relationship if, (00:14:41) you know, I don't give some ground here. (00:14:44) And so, uh, came over on her birthday (00:14:46) one time and it's like a switch was (00:14:48) flipped and, oh, hi honey, hi Megan, hi. (00:14:51) You know, and then we just continued to (00:14:53) work on that relationship for the next (00:14:55) 20, 30, 40 years. and she's a wonderful (00:14:58) mother-in-law. My mom was wonderful (00:15:00) grandparent, (00:15:01) >> but there is a lot of just heartache (00:15:05) from my end, probably from hers too, (00:15:07) from her perspective. But so that's kind (00:15:10) of I came out with that. (00:15:11) >> So I knew coming in here today that I (00:15:13) was going to learn some stuff that I (00:15:14) hadn't known about you. Even though (00:15:16) we've known each other for 37 years, I (00:15:18) didn't know about you. I think you told (00:15:20) me about losing your dad. I just forgot (00:15:22) how important and significant, how young (00:15:24) you were when that happened. And then (00:15:27) this situation with your with your mom (00:15:30) and the challenges that that brought. (00:15:32) Tom, you're one of the most joyful (00:15:34) people I've ever met. (00:15:36) >> Well, thank you. (00:15:36) >> You and Megan just like the two of you (00:15:40) together. (00:15:42) I have goosebumps just thinking about (00:15:43) it. There was laughter, there was love, (00:15:45) there was peace. That's the other one (00:15:47) we'll add to that for the trifecta for (00:15:50) you guys. (00:15:51) >> Um, tell us about your wife. (00:15:54) >> Okay. Well, um, amazing woman. She loved (00:15:59) God with all her heart. I might get a (00:16:01) little emotional because, uh, just give (00:16:03) you some story, you know, here. Um, she (00:16:06) just passed, as you know, in April. We (00:16:07) had a six-year battle with cancer. And (00:16:10) so, um, again, it would have been we (00:16:12) were one month shy of 50 years being (00:16:14) married, but we were engaged and dated (00:16:16) for a year and a half. So, I counted as (00:16:18) 50 years. All right. You know who's (00:16:20) counting? Joe. (00:16:21) >> 51 and a half. We are. (00:16:23) >> We are. (00:16:25) But end of the day is I knew she uh she (00:16:27) had a reputation around the you know the (00:16:30) young adults I was running with that (00:16:31) just she was just committed to God. And (00:16:32) I remember she was dating this guy named (00:16:34) Bob and uh any rate he uh he backslid. (00:16:38) He decided he was going to now they have (00:16:41) fancy names for this deconstruct on (00:16:43) anyway he walked away from Jesus is the (00:16:45) bottom line. So I I remember I knew who (00:16:47) she was because of the circles we ran (00:16:49) in. And I thought, "Okay, well most of (00:16:51) the time that happens when somebody's (00:16:52) boyfriend or girlfriend, they just go (00:16:53) right with them and they Megan said, (00:16:57) "Goodbye, Charlie. I'm walking with God. (00:16:59) If you go your way," and she dated this (00:17:01) guy, I don't know, eight months, (00:17:03) whatever year. (00:17:04) >> So I remember looking at going, "Hey, (00:17:06) this girl's committed." And so um I (00:17:09) think that was the the biggest thing. (00:17:10) Again, she uh she was joyful. She was uh (00:17:14) u just a wonderful wonderful woman. (00:17:18) >> Very supportive. Um stood by my side, (00:17:21) stood by my call. Uh wonderful mother to (00:17:25) my children. I mean, I just it's just (00:17:27) almost overwhelming. I I can't describe (00:17:29) it because it was just so beautiful. (00:17:31) >> Um we got along well. We had our ups and (00:17:34) downs. We had our fights. Every American (00:17:35) couple does. But um that was I think the (00:17:39) again, God gave me peace. God gave me (00:17:42) family. (00:17:43) >> Yeah. Peace and love and joy and (00:17:46) laughter. I mean, all that was all the (00:17:48) time. Now, (00:17:50) >> um I think back um (00:17:54) um to the times that we had together and (00:17:56) then culminating with her celebration of (00:17:59) life. (00:18:00) >> Mhm. (00:18:01) >> I don't know if you knew this. You were (00:18:02) standing in front of course by the (00:18:04) casket there. (00:18:05) >> People were lined up for like almost a (00:18:09) block. (00:18:09) >> I didn't know that. They It was (00:18:11) unbelievable. (00:18:13) >> Wow. (00:18:13) >> Luckily, my wife wife arrived early and (00:18:16) I could cut in line, you know, which I (00:18:19) >> I'm with her. And um it's just such a (00:18:24) beautiful celebration of her life and (00:18:26) all the people that she impacted and you (00:18:28) impacted. They just lining up coming (00:18:31) through and sharing the love with you. (00:18:33) >> Yes, sir. (00:18:34) >> Most of them, they didn't the place (00:18:36) wasn't big enough to handle those that (00:18:37) crowd. Yes, sir. So, a lot of them had (00:18:39) to just drive back home and say, (00:18:42) "There's not room in there for us." I (00:18:44) mean, that's I've always kind of thought (00:18:47) there'll be like two or three people in (00:18:49) my funeral. (00:18:50) >> I don't think so, Joe. (00:18:51) >> I'm not sure which ones they are. I'm (00:18:54) hoping maybe you'll be there, too. (00:18:56) >> Of course. (00:18:57) >> Thank God he's gone. No, no, they're not (00:18:59) going to do that, Joe. You've impacted (00:19:01) thousands of people. (00:19:02) >> Little a little different. Okay. So, um, (00:19:06) as you know, we're working on this (00:19:07) project. God is speaking. Are we (00:19:09) listening? (00:19:11) >> How has God spoken to you in maybe some (00:19:16) uh detail around this over the course of (00:19:19) your life? Have there been moments when (00:19:23) you know that God spoke to you and and (00:19:25) then in retrospect looking back at it, (00:19:28) it's so clear what he did and how he did (00:19:31) it. (00:19:32) >> Would you mind sharing a little bit of (00:19:33) that? And then I want to get into (00:19:34) something that you put together which is (00:19:37) quite profound called the lighthouse (00:19:40) principle. (00:19:40) >> Okay. (00:19:41) >> So tell us about some of the ways that (00:19:43) God has led you in your life. (00:19:45) >> Well, (00:19:47) this is what comes to mind. My my Bible (00:19:49) college uh professor said this. He says, (00:19:52) "We wish we could wake up every morning (00:19:55) and look on our wall and see a neon sign (00:19:58) of God telling us what we're supposed to (00:20:00) do. (00:20:03) That'd be nice. (00:20:06) But he said, (00:20:07) >> "But they didn't have electricity 2,000 (00:20:10) years ago." (00:20:11) >> So, we gota do we got to do (00:20:15) but um Oh, that's funny. But any rate, (00:20:17) he said, "But if" He made this statement (00:20:19) that was profound to me. It helped me (00:20:21) look back at my life and look forward. (00:20:22) He said, um, if you're 100% sure like (00:20:27) that, it's not faith. (00:20:30) And so that kind of really spoke to me (00:20:34) because God moves in subtle ways. We all (00:20:37) wish, you know, that we could go to the (00:20:39) mountaintop and hear the voice of God (00:20:42) and the mountain would shake and the, (00:20:45) you know, fire would come and we come (00:20:47) down from the mountain with a plan for (00:20:49) our life. It just doesn't work that way. (00:20:52) It just doesn't. So, a lot of the ways (00:20:54) God has led me is through subtlety, um (00:20:57) through making a scripture come alive to (00:20:59) me, through some kind of circumstances, (00:21:03) through um (00:21:05) you know, just doors shutting, doors (00:21:07) opening. Um, I think when I could say I (00:21:10) really heard from God, uh, there there's (00:21:13) probably some really key things and it's (00:21:15) always a process, but uh, um, I really (00:21:18) sought God uh, when I um, you know, (00:21:21) Megan and I, you know, I was going to (00:21:23) ask her to marry me. I mean, that's big (00:21:25) deal. There's no backing out of that, (00:21:26) you know. So, I remember I really did (00:21:29) the thing. I fasted. I prayed. I went (00:21:31) out in the woods and prayed and just, (00:21:33) you know, just the whole thing you would (00:21:34) expect. And uh but God never answered me (00:21:37) with some kind of fire thing. I just got (00:21:38) this deep deep peace and I do feel I (00:21:42) heard his voice in my heart. In fact he (00:21:44) let a scripture come alive to me in (00:21:46) Acts. It said go without any misgivings. (00:21:49) It's what God told Peter when the (00:21:51) gentile Romans knocked on his door and (00:21:53) said come preach or come tell us about (00:21:55) go without any misgivings. So I thought (00:21:57) wow that's and uh you know another verse (00:22:00) whatever is born of God overcomes the (00:22:02) world. That preposition there is (00:22:03) whatever not whoever. So God said the (00:22:07) real issue in life is when you're doing (00:22:09) these is is it born of God or is it not? (00:22:12) You know you think of Abraham God said (00:22:14) you're going to have a son with your (00:22:15) wife Sarah and he said well let me help (00:22:18) you out God and you know you know the (00:22:20) story took Hagar as his wife Ishmamail (00:22:21) happened and God said no I said with (00:22:23) Sarah. And so is something born of God (00:22:26) or is it born of you? And so I really (00:22:28) knew that was born of God. But I think (00:22:30) my call to the ministry um again that (00:22:33) was more circumstances. I I I was (00:22:36) engaged. I was trying to figure out, (00:22:39) you know, what was going to go on with (00:22:41) my life. Um you know, I was thinking, (00:22:45) you know, I got to have something to (00:22:46) support. I had two years of college. I (00:22:47) wanted to finish college because I just (00:22:48) because you get a college education and (00:22:50) you'll get a good job, which isn't (00:22:52) necessarily true, but I digress. But and (00:22:54) I was I remember I was planning on going (00:22:56) down I knew a guy that worked at a (00:22:58) Proctor and Gamble. I thought I I got to (00:23:00) shoe in those things in. I can go down (00:23:01) there, work, have a good job, raise (00:23:03) Megan. Megan's dad was asking me, you (00:23:05) know, what are you going to do? What are (00:23:06) you all this stuff, too? So, end of the (00:23:08) day, I was going to go down that Monday (00:23:10) morning. That Sunday night, my pastor (00:23:12) called me and said, "Hey, we've been (00:23:15) thinking about you. You graduated from (00:23:16) our Bible college and uh we want you to (00:23:19) come on staff, you know, and uh" and I (00:23:23) said, "Okay, that's great." So, he began (00:23:24) to describe what I would do. So, he (00:23:26) said, "I'll teach you. I'll train you uh (00:23:29) in pastoral things. It was men, we call (00:23:31) it mentoring today. He called it, you (00:23:33) know, like Moses had a Joshua and Paul (00:23:35) had a Timothy, I want you to be. (00:23:38) >> So, end of the day. And then he said, (00:23:39) but um we need a custodian. So, I want (00:23:42) you to be a custodian three days a week. (00:23:47) So, here I'm raised in Johnson County. (00:23:49) Want to get ahead working as a cook in a (00:23:51) restaurant. Think I don't want to be a (00:23:52) cook in a restaurant all my life. I got (00:23:54) to support great. And then I just knew (00:23:56) in my heart I just I just knew that was (00:23:58) God. How it's annoying. It just I just (00:24:00) knew. Uh really really (00:24:04) you know. (00:24:04) >> So you cleaned up the stuff and you were (00:24:06) helping people clean up their stuff. (00:24:08) >> Come on. (00:24:09) >> There you go. Perfect. Three days of (00:24:12) this, two days of this. Little overtime. (00:24:14) Three and three. (00:24:15) >> Hey, it'll work. You know. (00:24:16) >> Oh, that's so funny. (00:24:17) >> So any rate. (00:24:18) >> So yeah. So, this reminds me u one of (00:24:22) the guys in my men's group, we've been (00:24:23) meeting for over 15 years and love these (00:24:25) guys. One of them was talking about how (00:24:27) you got to line things up and you need (00:24:29) some confirmation when you're hearing (00:24:31) from God. And um it made me think of (00:24:34) when a a short stint long ago back in my (00:24:38) teens, I I installed fences. And so when (00:24:41) we're trying to get a fence on the fence (00:24:43) line, if we could, you know, if we put (00:24:46) in one, let's say, you know, let's say (00:24:49) it's a, yeah, a post. Let's say it's a (00:24:51) cedar fence and you got the big post (00:24:53) there. And then you put in the next one, (00:24:55) well, you're not sure that you're on the (00:24:57) proper line, but by the time you get the (00:24:59) third one, now you're quite confident I (00:25:02) am on this line that I need to be on. (00:25:05) And you talked about the lighthouse (00:25:06) principle, which again, three. Tell us (00:25:09) about the and you just mentioned it. You (00:25:11) mentioned Holy Spirit. You mentioned the (00:25:13) word. You mentioned circumstances. Tell (00:25:15) us about this lighthouse principle. (00:25:17) >> Okay. It comes from an illustration. (00:25:19) Don't know if it's true or not, but (00:25:20) let's just say it is. Uh there's a (00:25:22) harbor in Italy. I'm Italian. So, hey, (00:25:23) this I remember this. Hey, what are you (00:25:25) going to do? You married an Italian? I'm (00:25:29) there's this harbor in it Italy. So, the (00:25:31) story goes that um is very treacherous (00:25:33) to navigate. And so instead of one (00:25:36) lighthouse, they would have three (00:25:39) lighouses. And so if the ship lined up (00:25:42) so the three lighouses looked like one (00:25:45) beam of light, it would knew it it knew (00:25:47) the captain knew that it would be right (00:25:49) on course, would um avoid the dangerous (00:25:53) reefs and the things that are in there. (00:25:55) >> Yeah. (00:25:55) >> And so uh that illustration was burn. It (00:25:59) actually came uh from a book I read. Um (00:26:02) but at the end of the day uh those three (00:26:05) things this uh guy said was uh the three (00:26:09) three lights the word of God, the Holy (00:26:12) Spirit and circumstances. (00:26:15) >> Okay. So if those three line up, (00:26:20) this is the question people ask a lot. (00:26:22) First of all, they wonder does anybody (00:26:24) hear from God? (00:26:25) >> Then they wonder, can I hear from God? (00:26:28) And then how do I know I'm hearing from (00:26:30) God? And so as we go down that road, (00:26:33) you're describing in these conditions (00:26:35) and it shows up in a lot of your (00:26:38) material. You, you know, you wrote about (00:26:40) this, you've studied this. Obviously, (00:26:42) you've helped people understand this. (00:26:44) Um, tell us about um the word, the Holy (00:26:48) Spirit, the circumstances. Walk us (00:26:50) through that with some detail if you (00:26:52) would. (00:26:52) >> Okay. Sure. Um, our primary source of (00:26:55) guidance should be the word of God. (00:26:57) God's word is his will. His will is his (00:26:58) word. If you're doing something against (00:27:01) the word of God, you're not hearing from (00:27:02) God. Period. And uh it it is that (00:27:06) absolute. I mean, something that is (00:27:08) plainly revealed in scripture, not some (00:27:11) weird Old Testament law or I'm talking (00:27:14) about, you know, something plainly (00:27:16) revealed in scripture, you know. So, and (00:27:19) I could give illustrations, but I think, (00:27:20) you know, God's not going to lead you to (00:27:21) rob a bank. God's not going to lead you (00:27:23) to cheat so you can get ahead of your (00:27:25) business. So you you know the obvious (00:27:27) things (00:27:28) >> on a positive note uh love your (00:27:30) neighbor. (00:27:31) >> There you go. Yeah, that's more (00:27:33) positive. Yeah, (00:27:33) >> that's very clear. (00:27:35) >> That's that's the word. And so if the (00:27:37) God if uh if you're in a relationship (00:27:40) with your neighbor that doesn't (00:27:41) exemplify love, (00:27:44) >> God isn't in there. (00:27:47) So well said. So the word of God is what (00:27:50) I call our objective. By the way, I just (00:27:52) have a lot of experience not loving my (00:27:54) neighbor as it was so clear. And some of (00:27:57) them were downright unlovable. But we're (00:28:00) commanded to love him. Like you said, it (00:28:02) changes us. It impacts us when we follow (00:28:05) his word. And wonderful things happen (00:28:08) >> when we follow his word in time. (00:28:11) >> In time. In time. (00:28:14) Big caveat. (00:28:16) >> Not my way. Expectations. Not in my and (00:28:19) there (00:28:20) >> or my time (00:28:21) >> or my time (00:28:21) >> or my Yeah. Good. (00:28:23) >> So, yeah, but with the word and I really (00:28:26) think it it disheartens me. (00:28:29) Well, let me let me back up. Um, (00:28:33) I fell in love with the word of God when (00:28:34) I got filled with the Holy Spirit. It's (00:28:36) like they put out a new addition because (00:28:37) the Holy Spirit was the author of the (00:28:39) Bible. So, he's there to interpret it. (00:28:41) And I think what the scripture plainly (00:28:43) says is what it plainly means. And it it (00:28:45) disheartens me a lot of times people and (00:28:47) even, you know, don't take it too (00:28:50) seriously, you know, but to me, you obey (00:28:53) the word whether you feel like it or (00:28:55) not, whether you understand the (00:28:57) consequences of it or not. You just it's (00:29:00) it's a faith thing, you know, whether (00:29:01) it's I don't know. I can't I can't get (00:29:04) an illustration in my head right now. (00:29:05) Maybe you could, but you know, this word (00:29:07) might tell you to do so. Okay. Well, um (00:29:10) um love your enemies. Pick on that one. (00:29:15) um hard to do you know but if we do it (00:29:18) we see our enemy's heart in theory I've (00:29:20) seen this happen turn and issues are (00:29:23) resolved rather than accelerated you (00:29:25) know but so word of god it's our (00:29:27) objective standard I think that's where (00:29:29) we'll get a lot of our that's the first (00:29:31) place we should check okay (00:29:33) >> so go dig in a little deeper on that so (00:29:36) okay (00:29:36) >> when it comes to the word you talked (00:29:38) about three different you know (00:29:40) principles are found in the word direct (00:29:43) direct and indirect guidance. (00:29:45) >> Okay. (00:29:46) >> Um so the Bible could speak very (00:29:49) directly to you like we just described (00:29:51) with these exam. Sometimes he speaks (00:29:53) kind of indirectly and then sometimes (00:29:56) you learn a principle. (00:29:57) >> Okay. (00:29:59) Um (00:30:01) well directly obviously (00:30:03) um (00:30:05) you know thou shall not steal. Sean, you (00:30:08) know, the the I mean, there's just (00:30:09) directly just Yeah. Just direct. I mean, (00:30:11) >> very easy to understand. (00:30:12) >> Easy to understand. Uh like, you know, I (00:30:15) I remember I was getting close before I (00:30:16) met Megan to this one gal, but she (00:30:18) wasn't a Christian. And the Bible says (00:30:20) we're not supposed to be unequally (00:30:21) yolked with non-believers. I didn't need (00:30:23) to pray about that. I didn't need to go (00:30:25) up to the mountain top. I didn't need (00:30:27) plainly. And if I would have disobeyed (00:30:30) that, even though we had a great (00:30:32) relationship, I had a great relationship (00:30:33) with this gal, it wouldn't have turned (00:30:35) out well. So you've got to trust God. So (00:30:37) that's directly. Indirectly, (00:30:39) >> you would have missed 50 years of love (00:30:41) and peace and joy. (00:30:42) >> Amen. (00:30:43) And I've thought of that for decades. So (00:30:47) you kind of step back and go, "Thank God (00:30:48) I didn't marry some of the people." But (00:30:51) uh yeah, for sure. But um so uh (00:30:55) >> and indirect the the word and you you (00:30:58) wrote about this that it's it's it's not (00:31:01) always so direct but somehow like you (00:31:04) were saying the Holy Spirit enlightens (00:31:07) the eyes and ears and you all of a (00:31:10) sudden grasp something that wasn't so (00:31:13) direct but Holy Spirit makes it quite (00:31:15) direct (00:31:16) >> by his revealing of truth. (00:31:18) >> Yes. For sure. (00:31:20) >> Yeah. And then there's principles. Yes. (00:31:22) >> And principles are (00:31:26) >> like um what goes around comes around. (00:31:30) You reap what you sow. Yes. You give and (00:31:32) you receive. I mean that's a principle. (00:31:34) >> Yes. (00:31:35) >> And so I just thought that was very (00:31:36) useful when you unpack that that the (00:31:39) word can speak to you in so many (00:31:41) different ways. You described, okay, I (00:31:44) would go in with a real challenge or (00:31:46) real problem. I'd open up the word and (00:31:48) God would lead me right to the verse (00:31:50) that I needed. talked about that. And (00:31:52) then there's other times when you're (00:31:54) just reading, cruising through the (00:31:56) Bible, and all of a sudden something (00:31:58) jumps off the page at you, and the Holy (00:32:00) Spirit just shows you here's what that (00:32:03) means to you. And I think those that's (00:32:05) what we're talking about. The the Bible (00:32:07) is alive. (00:32:08) >> It is alive. It's a living book. (00:32:10) >> Yeah. (00:32:11) >> I think the principles, too, I think we (00:32:12) got to realize that the Bible will not (00:32:15) address every issue in your life. Should (00:32:17) I marry Megan or not? Should I go to (00:32:19) college or not? Should I invest my money (00:32:22) here? Should I start this business? It's (00:32:24) practical stuff. It does it doesn't have (00:32:26) those things. So then you go by the (00:32:27) principles in the Bible. And so you look (00:32:30) at these things that there's some (00:32:32) eternal principles. Love your neighbor. (00:32:34) You brought up um you know that do all (00:32:36) things with love. Things without faith (00:32:39) um won't turn out well. So you know we (00:32:41) apply those principles. I'm trying to (00:32:43) think of um you know something off the (00:32:45) cuff right here of a principle that the (00:32:47) well you kind of mentioned one. give and (00:32:48) it'll be given to you. And you know, um, (00:32:52) >> okay, love your enemy. It really didn't (00:32:53) tell you how to do that, but there's a (00:32:55) principle there. And sometimes they So, (00:32:56) any rate, there's just principles in (00:32:58) there that I think are what I would call (00:33:00) transcultural. They transcend cultures. (00:33:03) They're good for, you know, the guy in (00:33:05) the the the Bush in Africa or the guy (00:33:09) with a doctorate. (00:33:10) >> I got one. (00:33:11) >> Fire away. (00:33:12) >> Be quick to listen, slow to speak, and (00:33:15) slow to become angry. (00:33:16) >> You would bring that up. Thanks. (00:33:19) >> I tried to cut that out of the B. No, (00:33:20) I'm kidding. (00:33:21) >> I'm going to get a tattoo that says (00:33:23) that. I mean, it's a principle. (00:33:25) >> Yes, sir. (00:33:26) >> Just the people who who communicate well (00:33:30) and develop deep friendships are good (00:33:33) listeners. (00:33:34) >> Yes, sir. (00:33:35) >> Yeah. (00:33:36) So, okay. So, that's the word. (00:33:38) >> The word. Yes, sir. (00:33:40) >> The spirit. (00:33:41) >> Okay. Holy Spirit. Um, the Holy Spirit (00:33:44) does speak, but again, he doesn't shout. (00:33:47) He whispers. One guy said it like this. (00:33:49) It's almost like a brush against your (00:33:51) arm. (00:33:52) >> You got to be sensitive to him. (00:33:55) >> And you have to develop your (00:33:56) relationship with the Holy Spirit. It's (00:33:58) a relationship. He's not a force. He's a (00:34:00) person. And uh we need to take seriously (00:34:03) as Christians our relationship with the (00:34:06) Holy Spirit. He's just not some extra (00:34:08) out here. He's not emotionalism. He's (00:34:11) not. And I'm all for feeling goosebumps (00:34:13) and raising my I mean I love that. You (00:34:15) love that. But we both know um our (00:34:18) emotions can deceive us. There's a lot (00:34:21) of times when I thought it was the Holy (00:34:22) Spirit. It was my ego talking to me. So (00:34:24) that's why you can't just go by the Holy (00:34:25) Spirit alone. (00:34:26) >> You can't go by the word alone. (00:34:29) >> Because it doesn't address daytoday (00:34:31) issues. You can't go by the Holy Spirit (00:34:33) alone necessarily. I mean because (00:34:36) man, we're complicated beings. We've got (00:34:38) this ego. We got pride. Our pride shouts (00:34:41) to us. It it boy, it's complicated, you (00:34:44) know. But um as we develop that (00:34:45) relationship with the Holy Spirit, I (00:34:47) think on major things, there's a there's (00:34:49) a deep knowing, you know, like when when (00:34:52) pastor's name was Ernie called me and he (00:34:55) was pitching this, you know, thing, this (00:34:58) job, he said, "I'll match your salary (00:34:59) and all this stuff." Just I just knew. (00:35:02) And there's there's a knowing and the (00:35:04) Bible talks about this again. Bible says (00:35:06) this um and I can't that's just in first (00:35:09) John it talks about um that you don't (00:35:12) need a teacher for you have the Holy (00:35:14) Spirit and you know all things and (00:35:16) that's kind of a nebulous thing but what (00:35:17) it's talking about there is is a lot of (00:35:19) times the Holy Spirit just gives you (00:35:21) this deep deep I just knew I I just I (00:35:24) just knew that's what God wanted me to (00:35:25) do all logic aside I want to pursue (00:35:28) different things that were more secure (00:35:30) but I knew you know it's just (00:35:31) >> so any it's almost like you described it (00:35:35) is there's a peace that comes with it. (00:35:38) >> Yes. (00:35:39) >> My knower and my a sense of peace. Now (00:35:43) all of a sudden sort of my whole being (00:35:46) is getting wrapped up this my my left (00:35:48) brain, my right brain, my logic, my (00:35:51) emotions and I just I have a peace and (00:35:55) this is Holy Spirit. And then uh you did (00:35:58) such a fantastic job in this writing (00:36:02) about circumstances and and tell us (00:36:05) about that. We got the word, we got the (00:36:07) spirit. Okay. The word says, you know, (00:36:10) God's got a wife for you and you know (00:36:12) and and go marry this woman and (00:36:15) >> and the Bible talks about that maybe (00:36:18) indirectly that and directly. (00:36:21) >> Yeah. (00:36:22) >> And then the Holy Spirit has given you (00:36:24) some guidance. (00:36:25) >> Yes. And then there's circumstances. (00:36:28) >> Yes. Um this is what some theologians (00:36:31) would call the sovereignty of God. (00:36:34) >> Um (00:36:35) to give you some biblical examples, uh (00:36:37) in the book of Esther, the Old (00:36:39) Testament, the word God or Yahweh or (00:36:41) Jehovah is not mentioned at all. But you (00:36:45) see God guiding Morai and Esther, if you (00:36:48) know the story there in the Bible, she (00:36:50) was they had a beauty pageant and the (00:36:52) king needed a a a wife anyway. So (00:36:55) there's all these circumstances and (00:36:57) nuances that her uncle got her into this (00:36:59) beauty pageant, you know, and she won (00:37:01) the beauty pageant and she hid her (00:37:03) identity as a Jew and then, you know, (00:37:05) Morai's enemy wanted to annihilate the (00:37:07) Jews and and Mori came to the king (00:37:10) didn't know his wife was a Jew and she (00:37:12) saved the Jewish nation. God isn't (00:37:14) mentioned once. all these circumstances. (00:37:16) I think of Ruth and Boaz in the Bible (00:37:18) where Ruth uh she lost her husband um (00:37:22) and um moved back with her mother-in-law (00:37:25) Naomi and uh so she just happened I'm (00:37:29) putting to go to this field to glean (00:37:31) wheat. That's how they they left wheat (00:37:33) behind for the widows. And and uh it (00:37:36) just happened to be Boaz's field and (00:37:38) Boaz just happened to see her. And then (00:37:41) the bottom line, we know all know (00:37:43) >> circumstances (00:37:44) >> circumstances. (00:37:46) I mean, she didn't necessarily pray. She (00:37:49) wasn't really seeking a husband, but God (00:37:51) just lined all this stuff up and bada (00:37:54) bing, bada boom, she ends up with a rich (00:37:57) husband. (00:37:59) Doesn't get better than that. No, I'm (00:38:00) kidding. But um and so God will guide us (00:38:03) unbeknownst to us through circumstances. (00:38:05) Sometimes that comes through there's two (00:38:07) ways. There's positive and negative to (00:38:09) that. There's God's what I call (00:38:10) restrictive guidance (00:38:12) >> where I remember, you know, you just (00:38:13) doors just keep closing and you feel (00:38:16) like you're running in mud and sometimes (00:38:18) that can just be you need to persist. (00:38:19) Sometimes it's just God's not in this, (00:38:21) you know. (00:38:22) >> Could give illustrations. I remember as (00:38:24) a pastor were trying to buy land for our (00:38:26) church and we knew every partial of land (00:38:28) down the K10 corridor. And I remember we (00:38:31) had money in hand, loaned in hand, we're (00:38:34) ready to close. And this guy just said, (00:38:36) "Nah, we we just decided not to sell it (00:38:38) to you." We were like, "What?" There was (00:38:41) no reason. 10 acres, be Anyway, I keep (00:38:43) hitting this mic. Sorry about that. But (00:38:46) um there um um (00:38:48) >> Tom, it's because you're Italian. (00:38:51) >> This is true. (00:38:51) >> With your hands, (00:38:52) >> if you want to shut an Italian up, just (00:38:54) tie up his hands. He can't talk. (00:38:58) That is so true. (00:39:00) But any rate, (00:39:00) >> you could push it a little further out (00:39:02) if that. (00:39:02) >> Yeah, maybe I could do that a little (00:39:03) bit. There we go. But um so any rate uh (00:39:08) but now it's just a long story without (00:39:10) going into it. I'm glad we didn't. That (00:39:11) wasn't God's plan at that time. We (00:39:13) merged with another church. It just (00:39:15) wasn't God. (00:39:15) >> Yeah. (00:39:16) >> But I remember just I mean anyway, so (00:39:18) those are (00:39:20) >> I remember that time. (00:39:21) >> Do you? (00:39:21) >> Yeah. And it seemed like a It's either (00:39:25) like you said earlier, my way or his (00:39:28) way. (00:39:28) >> Yes. Yes, it's my timing or his timing. (00:39:31) It seemed like that really worked well (00:39:35) for you at that time in that season of (00:39:37) your life. And in retrospect, (00:39:39) you know, God's his ways are higher than (00:39:42) our ways. His thoughts are higher than (00:39:43) our thoughts. (00:39:45) >> Then there's uh open doors. You know, (00:39:48) the I'll use my life that pastor calling (00:39:51) me. I'm searching what to do with my (00:39:53) life. The next day, I'm going to go down (00:39:54) and apply for this job that I thought (00:39:55) was secure. I could support a family (00:39:57) with. But this door opened and there was (00:40:01) um 200 people that attended that Bible (00:40:04) college. I think about 20 graduated. Of (00:40:06) those 20 graduates, Ernie picked me and (00:40:09) another guy. I mean, that's just (00:40:11) providential. It's just God's (00:40:12) sovereignty. Right at the the the (00:40:14) evening before, I mean, you can't plan (00:40:16) this stuff. I was going to go in. (00:40:19) >> And that changed the trajectory of my (00:40:21) life here. A pastor trained me (00:40:23) personally in the ministry. Uh (00:40:25) invaluable. Invaluable. Later on, I went (00:40:28) on finished my college degree and all (00:40:29) that and God worked all that out in his (00:40:31) time, not mine. (00:40:32) >> So, there's open doors, closed doors (00:40:34) with circumstances. There's also other (00:40:36) things that um God speaks through people (00:40:40) and that's huge. And again, you can't (00:40:42) take this one thing is you got to line (00:40:44) up the word, the Holy Spirit, and (00:40:46) circumstance. Part of circumstances are (00:40:47) people. And uh I'll tell you a dramatic (00:40:51) thing that happened. U this gal sat in (00:40:53) my office and told me about this. So, (00:40:55) this is firsthand experience. (00:40:57) She uh was pastor's kid. Uh she was (00:40:59) sitting in my office for some (00:41:00) counseling. This was years ago back in (00:41:02) my 20s. And she um was dating this guy (00:41:06) and he just was no good. He just, you (00:41:08) know, he wasn't a Christian. He drank (00:41:10) too much. Any rate, bottom line is she (00:41:12) was just hellbent on marrying him. And (00:41:14) so she was going down a mall and this (00:41:17) guy passed her. And then he came back (00:41:19) around, middle-aged man, and he looked (00:41:21) at her and says, "Ma'am," he says, "Um, (00:41:23) I just believe the Lord wants me to tell (00:41:25) you this. this total stranger. Whatever (00:41:28) you're planning to do, don't do it. I (00:41:30) feel God's telling me to tell you that. (00:41:32) And walked off. Totally supernatural. (00:41:36) Well, she married him anyway. (00:41:39) And he abused her, beat her, did drugs. (00:41:43) I think she was sitting there with some (00:41:44) kind of broken something something in my (00:41:46) office. I remember. How do I know? (00:41:48) Because she was sitting there telling me (00:41:49) this story. I'm thinking, man, people (00:41:51) >> if she just was Sometimes pastors or (00:41:53) people in authority will tell you (00:41:54) things. your dad or your pastor or (00:41:59) don't do this. This is not good. And God (00:42:04) God works through people. I And here's (00:42:06) another thing I think that we don't see (00:42:07) in our day and age. We got to sometimes (00:42:09) ask, well, what has God spoken to the (00:42:11) church at large (00:42:14) through the decades, through the (00:42:16) centuries? We can't discount that (00:42:18) either. There are committees and (00:42:21) whatever that and and godly men and (00:42:23) women that God has spoken to and have (00:42:25) given revelation to and why are we (00:42:27) revisiting this when God we're we're (00:42:30) totally ignorant sometimes or discount (00:42:32) that part of God speaking to the church (00:42:35) you know it's kind of like it seems good (00:42:36) to God uh and to us you know to us or us (00:42:40) and to God there's a confirmation there (00:42:42) you know so I remember even going to my (00:42:45) pastor I was praying about things and (00:42:47) man I feel good about that and we'd pray (00:42:49) and it was more than just him feeling (00:42:50) his him sensing the Holy Spirit. So you (00:42:52) can't leave the people thing godly (00:42:54) people got to be the right kind of (00:42:56) people. So that's all in the (00:42:58) circumstances thing. So again, if you (00:43:01) just go by circumstances, you're going (00:43:02) to get off because circumstances will (00:43:04) lie to you. The devil can give you (00:43:06) favorable circumstances. You can't just (00:43:08) go by the word because it doesn't that (00:43:10) sounds strange but the word I'm saying (00:43:12) that in context of the word doesn't give (00:43:15) you every detail of everything you (00:43:16) should do in your life. Should you go (00:43:18) into this career that it's not meant to (00:43:21) do that but it gives you principles. You (00:43:23) can't just go by (00:43:23) >> and the word can be misinterpreted. (00:43:26) >> Yes sir. (00:43:26) >> The the word a person can be into the (00:43:29) word and deceiving. In fact the enemy (00:43:32) knows the word really well and he uses (00:43:34) it to deceive people a little bit here (00:43:36) and there. Yes. Yes. (00:43:36) >> So you're just the word is the (00:43:39) foundation. (00:43:40) >> Yes. (00:43:40) >> But the Holy Spirit and the (00:43:43) circumstances (00:43:45) give us that peace that we can move (00:43:46) forward in God's will. (00:43:48) >> Yeah. And that's given me a lot of peace (00:43:50) on major decisions. Um and even helping (00:43:53) other people, you know, uh maybe they're (00:43:56) saying, "I feel called. I feel called to (00:43:58) do this." So, I'm sitting there as a (00:43:59) pastor think I I don't sense that (00:44:01) calling on you, you know, (00:44:04) nor any any other church. So, why are (00:44:06) you, you know, the circumstances aren't, (00:44:09) you know, I'm being kind of negative. (00:44:10) But at the at the when it's positive (00:44:11) though, when you're seeking God and you (00:44:14) you you go to some godly people for (00:44:15) godly counsel and they say, "Well, I we (00:44:18) sense, you know, it's the Holy Spirit (00:44:20) and you know, and then circumstances (00:44:21) line up, whether they're financial or (00:44:23) doors opening or and and the word, the (00:44:26) Holy Spirit, and circumstances all line (00:44:28) up, you can pretty much be sure you're (00:44:31) right in the will of God." (00:44:33) >> That's good, too. (00:44:34) >> And again, so I think it's I think we (00:44:36) got to get this thing out of our mind. (00:44:37) and we go to the mountaintop and get the (00:44:39) revy heavy revy heavy revelation and (00:44:42) then it's all going to be no that isn't (00:44:44) God and God in the Bible just led (00:44:45) through these circuitous way look at the (00:44:47) way he led all the people in the Bible (00:44:49) Joseph in the Bible getting thrown into (00:44:51) prison all the tri you know he he led (00:44:53) them through different things where they (00:44:54) didn't even know they were being led and (00:44:56) but all those three things line up I (00:44:59) think you can pretty much know you'll be (00:45:01) spot on (00:45:02) >> so as you summarize all this and then I (00:45:04) have a few additional questions for you (00:45:06) >> sure To summarize all this, how would (00:45:09) you respond to this God is speaking, are (00:45:12) we listening topic? (00:45:16) >> How would I respond to it? (00:45:17) >> God is speaking. True, not true. Are we (00:45:20) listening? Important, not important. Um (00:45:24) your your perspective on that. (00:45:27) >> I think God is always speaking, but he (00:45:30) may might not in the way we think. (00:45:33) And so God is always speaking through (00:45:36) his word. (00:45:37) So, do we value the word? What do we (00:45:39) value? (00:45:40) >> God is always speaking through his holy (00:45:42) spirit. Are we valuing that (00:45:44) relationship? Do we take time for the (00:45:46) word and the holy spirit? Have we are we (00:45:49) developing that skill? There's a verse (00:45:51) in the in the New Testament says uh in (00:45:54) Hebrews, by reason of use, it's King (00:45:57) James language, but by reason of use our (00:45:59) senses are trained to discern right or (00:46:02) evil uh good or evil. on that Greek word (00:46:04) trained is gymnado where we get our word (00:46:06) gym. So if you want to be trained, you (00:46:09) know, you have to be trained in (00:46:11) listening and hearing the word God's (00:46:12) speaking. He's speaking every day. He's (00:46:16) speaking to us through circumstances. (00:46:18) He's (00:46:20) >> perfect. Well stated, Tom. (00:46:22) >> I mean, are we The question is, are we (00:46:24) listening? We usually aren't. I'm (00:46:27) speaking for myself, you know. So, (00:46:30) >> okay. So, I'm going to change it up a (00:46:33) little bit here. Go for it. Just ask a (00:46:35) few final questions. So, what advice (00:46:37) would you give the listeners? (00:46:41) >> Advice? (00:46:42) >> Well, since we're talking on this topic (00:46:43) of I would say um (00:46:48) there's so much love (00:46:51) and direction that God wants to shower (00:46:53) on you, more than you can possibly (00:46:56) imagine. (00:46:58) I think I read a statistic that (00:47:02) some crazy thing 80% 70% of people even (00:47:05) Christians believe God's mad at him. (00:47:08) Nothing could be further from the truth. (00:47:11) Um, God loves you. How do I know this? (00:47:13) The Bible says, everybody knows John (00:47:15) 3:16, for God so loved the world, he (00:47:17) gave his only begotten son. John 3:17 (00:47:20) says, God did not come into the world to (00:47:22) judge the world, but that the world (00:47:24) might be saved through him. God's (00:47:27) passion for you is not he's not a mean (00:47:28) old man up in heaven with a baseball bat (00:47:31) to whoop you upside the head. You know, (00:47:33) he loves you. He wants to lead your life (00:47:36) and it's a good thing. It may be hard (00:47:38) some of the things he leads you into, (00:47:40) but will ultimately lead for your good. (00:47:42) If you could just understand the (00:47:44) character of God, that he loves you. And (00:47:47) maybe the thing you think is going to be (00:47:49) so great, what you think is steak is (00:47:52) going to end up soup. and what you think (00:47:54) is soup is going to end up steak. Listen (00:47:56) to God. And so, you know, number one, (00:47:59) God deeply and intensely loves you. I (00:48:01) could talk an hour about that, but I (00:48:02) won't. Two, um, develop your (00:48:05) relationship with the word of God and (00:48:07) the Holy Spirit. Um, we're toast without (00:48:10) that. We're just we're a ship without a (00:48:12) sail, you know. Um, I think the word of (00:48:14) God is like the sail and the Holy (00:48:16) Spirit's like the wind. So, you need the (00:48:18) sail up for the wind to drive the ship. (00:48:21) So, um, getting a lot of nautical (00:48:24) illustrations here. So, at the end of (00:48:26) the day, you know, take God's word (00:48:28) seriously. If it says (00:48:32) to do something to be generous, you'll (00:48:33) be blessed. That's the truth. You're (00:48:35) not, you know, I can the B the Bible (00:48:37) says if you're stingy, it'll lead to (00:48:39) poverty. Believe that. If it says in the (00:48:41) abundance of counselors there will be (00:48:44) victory, believe that. Get some godly (00:48:46) people around you that can counsel you (00:48:47) and there'll be victory. Rather than be (00:48:49) the lone ranger, take God's word (00:48:51) seriously. Take your relationship with (00:48:52) his Holy Spirit seriously. Seek both of (00:48:55) them and understand that God deeply (00:48:59) loves you and wants to bless your life, (00:49:01) not restrict you. So, (00:49:03) >> yeah, perfect. (00:49:05) >> Okay, now I'm going to get really light. (00:49:07) >> Okay, let's go for it. Gotten a little (00:49:09) heavy here. (00:49:09) >> Favorite book, favorite movie, uh, (00:49:11) favorite vacation. (00:49:13) >> Oh my gosh. Okay, here we go. Favorite (00:49:15) movie. I don't know why Shaw Shack (00:49:17) Redemption. I know a lot of people (00:49:18) watched it the other day. (00:49:19) >> Isn't it amazing? (00:49:20) >> It is. Yeah. (00:49:21) >> And it was a flop when it came out, but (00:49:23) this it's after shelf life has been I (00:49:25) guess the reason is I kept trying to (00:49:26) analyze why do I love this? But it's got (00:49:28) a guy that through persistence and and (00:49:31) and wit overcomes. (00:49:33) >> He loved his enemies. (00:49:36) >> Wow. Didn't think of that. (00:49:37) >> I mean, if you were saying the warden (00:49:39) and the people in that corrupt system, (00:49:41) they they were his enemies. They were (00:49:43) trying to destroy him and he loved them. (00:49:45) He (00:49:46) >> Yep. It's a it's it's terrific and the (00:49:48) acting is great. Okay. Is there a book (00:49:51) that uh that you kind of a go-to book (00:49:54) for you or? (00:49:54) >> Well, one that impacted my life in an (00:49:57) amazing way was Seven Habits of Highly (00:50:00) Successful People. (00:50:01) >> Absolutely love that book. Uh so, (00:50:05) um I think about that a lot. Win, lose, (00:50:08) win, win, (00:50:10) >> sharpen the saw, all those things that (00:50:11) you know it like the back of your hand. (00:50:12) So, you know, (00:50:14) >> but how about vacation? What was your (00:50:16) one of your favorite vacations? (00:50:18) >> Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. (00:50:22) My favorite one is Megan and I saved up (00:50:24) and took a trip of our lifetime. We uh (00:50:27) went to Paris for three days and then uh (00:50:30) toured just by ourselves Italy for (00:50:33) another 10 days. (00:50:35) [Applause] (00:50:36) The pasta. Oh my gosh, the pasta. We (00:50:39) stand this island of Capri and it was (00:50:41) just we call it Capri. They will correct (00:50:42) you. It was Capri. But uh beautiful (00:50:46) islands where the Caesars used to (00:50:48) vacation blue sea. I just that is just a (00:50:50) very memorable one. So (00:50:52) >> very nice. Is there anything I should (00:50:54) ask that I didn't ask? (00:50:56) >> Um (00:50:58) no I don't think so. I was just looking (00:50:59) for some smart out answer but I don't (00:51:02) have it in me right now. (00:51:03) >> Um how can um listeners learn more about (00:51:06) Tom or connect with Tom? I don't think (00:51:08) even talked about what you're doing (00:51:10) these days, but uh yeah, if somebody (00:51:12) wanted to reach out to you, (00:51:14) >> uh well, I mean, they could email or (00:51:16) call. I mean, I'm doing a couple things. (00:51:17) I'm very active in my I've retired for (00:51:20) 45 years of ministry, retired. I'm (00:51:22) putting quotes around that from (00:51:24) full-time paid (00:51:25) >> pastoral thing. But now I'm uh I'm very (00:51:28) active in my local church. Um very (00:51:31) active. I'm on play guitar on the (00:51:33) worship team and all that. And so it's (00:51:34) radiant church, great church. Tell tell (00:51:36) them about the gentleman whose studio (00:51:39) we're sitting in here and what happened (00:51:40) last weekend. (00:51:41) >> Oh. Oh yeah. It's kind of funny. The (00:51:44) gentleman that owns a studio. He says, (00:51:45) "Hey, I know you. You preached last week (00:51:47) at Radio Church." I go, "Hey." Yes. It (00:51:50) was kind of a fun thing to run into him (00:51:51) and connect with him on that. Again, (00:51:53) this is a great place, by the way. (00:51:55) >> That's Brad Burrow and we're at Real (00:51:56) Media. Yeah. (00:51:57) >> Yeah. Great place. (00:52:00) Um, I also have a business, so you know, (00:52:02) I sell real estate, but I again my my (00:52:05) passion is to just continue to stay (00:52:06) active, help people. (00:52:08) >> Yeah. (00:52:08) >> Whether it's financially or spiritually. (00:52:11) So, um, that's my heart. I just I'm I'm (00:52:13) a pastor at heart. I want to help and (00:52:15) nurture people. So, (00:52:17) >> I am so grateful for our friendship over (00:52:19) the years. (00:52:19) >> Oh, I'm grateful for you, Joe. (00:52:22) >> Would you pray for our listeners, (00:52:23) please, as we wrap up? (00:52:25) >> I sure would. (00:52:26) >> Thank you, (00:52:26) >> Lord. Thank you so much for this time (00:52:28) where we've discussed how you guide us (00:52:30) and how you love us. Lord, you're always (00:52:33) pictured in the Bible, old and new (00:52:34) testament, as a shepherd. And that kind (00:52:36) of doesn't connect with us as Americans, (00:52:38) but a shepherd just loves the sheep and (00:52:40) carries the sheep and grooms the sheep (00:52:42) and feeds the sheep and love Lord, (00:52:44) that's who you are. You're our shepherd. (00:52:47) And so may people in the sound of this (00:52:51) podcast, Lord God, just (00:52:54) may you reveal yourself as that (00:52:56) wonderful loving shepherd that just (00:52:59) wants to guide them in their life with (00:53:01) love and mercy and kindness in Jesus (00:53:04) name. Amen. (00:53:05) >> Amen. Hey, thanks so much for joining (00:53:07) us. Appreciate your time. If you would (00:53:10) uh like, share, follow, we can uh spread (00:53:13) the word literally. God bless you. (00:53:17) Thanks, Tom.