Free Range vs Strict Parents: Is Spanking Your Kids Ever Okay? | Middle Ground (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) - As the child grows and as you, (00:00:02) as a parent train that child (00:00:03) then more freedom should be granted (00:00:05) to make their own decisions-- (00:00:06) - But I don't think we should train our children. (00:00:08) I feel like you train a dog and not a kid. (00:00:11) - I think train is a good word. (00:00:12) - I don't wanna train child. (00:00:14) - Okay. Well, I do. (00:00:18) - Maryland parents are accused of child neglect (00:00:20) after allowing their two kids to walk home alone (00:00:23) from a park about a mile away. (00:00:26) - [Interviewer] When you hear the term free-range parent, (00:00:28) what do you think of? (00:00:30) - I see a wide range within free-range parenting (00:00:33) but parents that basically let their kids do (00:00:35) whatever they want and I see that as a recipe for disaster. (00:00:39) - When I think of a strict parent, (00:00:40) I think of someone who might be more concerned (00:00:43) with the behavior of the child than the heart of the child. (00:00:46) - I actually do consider myself strict (00:00:47) but I wanna be emotionally conscious. (00:00:51) - We've been told (00:00:52) by this oppressive safety obsessed terrified society (00:00:56) that you can never let your kid do anything on their own, (00:00:59) maybe till they're like 36. (00:01:01) - It's a luxury to be a free-reign parent (00:01:03) because they're the certain privilege that goes with that. (00:01:06) - Being a strict parent, I think, first of all, (00:01:08) I imagine stress, (00:01:10) should be a really fun time of your life. (00:01:12) Why follow all these rules when you wanna enjoy your kids? (00:01:22) - Hi, I'm Hal Chaffee. (00:01:24) I have five kids. I'm a minister and we live in Maryland. (00:01:28) - I'm Christian. I am a birth and postpartum doula (00:01:31) as well as the newborn care specialist. (00:01:34) I have one daughter who is seven. (00:01:36) - Hi, I'm Jenny Atkins. (00:01:38) I have two daughters. (00:01:39) I'm a health coach (00:01:40) and I wrote a children's healthy cookbook. (00:01:43) - My name's Nguyen. (00:01:45) I live in Los Angeles. I have one child. (00:01:47) So I'm a chef restaurant author. (00:01:50) - I'm Jody, and I'm the CEO of The Madden House (00:01:54) and I have eight children and I'm from LA. (00:01:57) - Hi to everybody. I'm Lenore Skenazy. (00:02:01) I'm the mother of two (00:02:02) and I founded the book blog and movement, (00:02:04) "Free-Range Kids," surprise! (everyone laughing) (00:02:08) I founded the "Free-Range Kids" movement. (00:02:11) I let my nine-year-old ride the subway (00:02:13) in New York City by himself. (00:02:15) I wrote a column and two days later, (00:02:17) I was on "The Today Show", "MSNBC", "Fox News" (00:02:19) and "NPR" defending my parenting style (00:02:23) and I started "Free-Range Kids" that weekend (00:02:26) as a blog to say, "Look, I believe in safety." (00:02:29) I just don't think that we have to have a security detail (00:02:33) every time we let our kids out of the house. (00:02:35) - [Interviewer] So, can I have my free-range parents (00:02:38) on the left and my strict parents on the right. (00:02:42) - [Hal] See you later, free ready friends. (00:02:46) - [Interviewer] Children should be trusted (00:02:48) to make their own decisions. (00:02:51) (Lenore laughing) (00:02:57) - So, of course children should make their own decisions. (00:03:00) I mean, we're trying to raise them to be responsible adults. (00:03:04) If they don't make decisions, they'll never learn. (00:03:07) - When my child is possibly gonna make a bad decision, (00:03:10) what I want to do is not telling what's a bad decision. (00:03:12) I think that's the wrong thing to do (00:03:14) because then, ultimately it's probably gonna reject (00:03:16) that anyway. (00:03:17) - Also, it depends on what we're talking (00:03:18) about decisions about like, (00:03:20) if it's bedtime and you want your kids (00:03:22) to be in bed at eight o'clock, I think that is up to you (00:03:25) but I remember a time my son called me. (00:03:27) He was 10 at the time and he said, (00:03:29) "Mom, can I have another piece of banana bread?" (00:03:32) And I thought, I felt bad (00:03:35) because of course that's a very simple decision. (00:03:38) They expected that I was the one to decide almost everything (00:03:41) about what they were eating and doing (00:03:42) and I felt like there was something wrong (00:03:44) and that actually started me reevaluating things. (00:03:47) Can they climb the tree? (00:03:48) Just let 'em climb the tree. (00:03:49) - And what's the worst that can happen, (00:03:50) they break an arm? Oh well. (00:03:56) - Well, for my kids specifically, she can go outside (00:03:59) and play after school and she can draw (00:04:01) and she can do whatever (00:04:02) but there is a very healthy boundary (00:04:05) like we don't have the type of healthcare (00:04:07) that most people have (00:04:09) so like, no, you can't climb a tree, (00:04:10) if it's like, "Oh, I don't wanna play violin anymore," (00:04:12) but it's like, you can't. (00:04:14) You're not allowed to quit things that you start (00:04:16) because even as an adult, you become a flaky adult. (00:04:19) - Well, you see so many parents nowadays who just like bend (00:04:23) to every whim of their child. (00:04:25) Children should be trusted to make their own decisions (00:04:27) when it is wise for them to make their own decisions. (00:04:30) I'm not gonna let my five-year-old decide (00:04:33) that he's not gonna brush his teeth anymore 'cause he does-- (00:04:35) - No, no. (00:04:35) - As the child grows (00:04:37) and as you, as a parent train that child (00:04:39) then more freedom should be granted (00:04:40) to make their own decisions. It should be a-- (00:04:42) - But I don't think we could train our children. (00:04:44) I feel like you train a dog and not a kid. (00:04:46) - I think train is a good word. (00:04:48) - I don't wanna train child. (00:04:49) - Okay. Well I do. (00:04:51) - I want my child - I want my child (00:04:52) - to be trained - who has creativity (00:04:53) - to be respectful - and maybe not like me (00:04:55) - Yeah, I'm not saying is to be like me. (00:04:57) - Do you think you need to train them to be respectful (00:04:59) or do you think that you guide them (00:05:02) in a way to learn to be respectful (00:05:05) because of the decisions they've chosen? (00:05:07) - Both. (00:05:07) (swoosh sound) (00:05:09) - [Interviewer] So what would you consider (00:05:10) your parenting style to be? (00:05:12) - I try to be as biblical as I can (00:05:14) when it comes to parenting. (00:05:15) I know a lot of people would disagree on that (00:05:17) but I have five kids and I do my best to follow it (00:05:20) and I found so much wisdom and it's worked. (00:05:23) - I don't really follow rules, (00:05:25) even if it's a theory of free-range parenting, per se, (00:05:29) if you're following those free-range parenting rules (00:05:32) then you become strict (00:05:34) and I don't think that there should be rules. (00:05:35) It should be whatever the day brings. (00:05:38) (click sound) (00:05:39) - [Interviewer] Kids deserve privacy. (00:05:46) - [Lenore] Wait, I don't know. (00:05:50) - [Nguyen] Absolutely. (00:05:51) - Yes. (00:05:52) - Here we go. (00:05:54) - [Jenny] Oh wait, we have a straggler. (00:05:55) - Even though they're not adults are still people (00:05:57) and they need time to either hear their thoughts (00:06:01) or process things or just, they need a sense of comfort (00:06:04) and solitude and things that are sacred to them. (00:06:08) - So, I don't have any teenagers yet. (00:06:10) There's no way-- (00:06:11) - Just wait. (laughing) (00:06:13) - [Hal] There's no way. (00:06:14) - Maybe my opinion will change. (00:06:15) - I mean, there's no way that I'm not gonna have access (00:06:17) to their cell phone, that that's not gonna happen (00:06:19) but, if they want time alone, I think that's fine (00:06:23) and they should have that and it's healthy to do that. (00:06:25) The reason I hesitated is (00:06:27) because I think back to my childhood, (00:06:30) there were things that happened sometimes (00:06:31) that can last with you for the rest of your life. (00:06:34) People can be abused online now (00:06:36) so when I have that parent spidey sense (00:06:38) of something's not right here (00:06:39) and my kids gonna be like, (00:06:40) "No, you can't have my cell phone." (00:06:41) "Yes I can." (00:06:42) (swoosh sound) (00:06:44) - In our household, we live by this kind of thought, (00:06:48) "Live your life in such a way (00:06:50) that if everyone could see what you're doing in private (00:06:53) that you wouldn't be ashamed." (00:06:55) So my kids also look through my phone. (00:06:58) Privacy is not something a child should be entitled to have. (00:07:03) Do we give our kids quiet downtime? Yes. (00:07:06) Am I looking through all their stuff? No. (00:07:08) - I actually agree with the definition (00:07:11) of downtime and privacy. (00:07:12) At my house, there's no privacy (00:07:14) 'cause you don't pay any bills. (00:07:15) She also trusts me and I've wanted to make a relationship (00:07:18) to where she trusts me that (00:07:19) even if she came to tell me like, there's no yell, (00:07:21) I don't yell and I don't scream (00:07:22) and I don't do any things like that. (00:07:24) We're very open, but there is no privacy. (00:07:27) - So I just wanted to put in a plea though (00:07:29) for some privacy. (00:07:31) I go around and I talk about free-range kids (00:07:33) and sometimes what I ask the audience is (00:07:35) to tell me when something did go wrong (00:07:37) and I ask them, "Did you tell your parents? (00:07:40) What do you think they said? (00:07:41) - [All] No. (00:07:42) - Why do you think they said it? (00:07:43) - [Jody] Fear - [Christian] Fear (00:07:44) - Fear? Fear of what? (00:07:46) - Being in trouble. (00:07:48) - You think it's trouble. (00:07:48) They said, they didn't want their freedom taken away. (00:07:51) - I think it's important though (00:07:52) that we hold our children accountable (00:07:54) because in the world, there are plenty of adults (00:07:58) who are not held accountable (00:08:00) who've never been held accountable (00:08:01) and they just do things that are terrible. (00:08:03) - But most of childhood is little things (00:08:07) and you don't have to be there for everyone (00:08:09) because that's when kids start realizing, I can handle this. (00:08:13) (swoosh sound) (00:08:16) - [Interviewer] When you hear the term free-range parent, (00:08:18) what do you think of (00:08:21) - Privilege, the ability to just do things (00:08:26) without any repercussions or consequences. (00:08:29) As a black person or a person of color, (00:08:31) we sometimes just don't have the privilege (00:08:33) to allow our children to be free-range. (00:08:36) Although, I would love for her to be free spirit (00:08:38) and just do and be, (00:08:40) she can't because black kids get murdered in the street. (00:08:44) (swoosh sound) (00:08:45) - [Interviewer] Parents should be parents and not friends. (00:08:52) (Christian laughing) (00:08:53) - No, this is a hard, this is actually hard for me. (00:08:56) My job is not to be my kid's friend. (00:08:58) It's to be their parent (00:08:59) but I don't think that is mutually exclusive (00:09:02) of not being their friend either if that makes any sense. (00:09:04) But I prioritize, right, being the parental unit. (00:09:08) - Me and my mom, I would say that she's my best friend (00:09:11) but like, as a child, it was, she was my mom (00:09:15) and I hope to have that type (00:09:16) of relationship with my daughter (00:09:17) but right now, I'm the parent and you're the child (00:09:20) because I don't want you to lose respect for me (00:09:23) like I'm not gonna go clubbing with my daughter, (00:09:25) like there's just some things that I'm just not gonna do (00:09:27) that I do with my friends but I'm not gonna do with my kid. (00:09:29) (swoosh sound) (00:09:32) - I agree that I'm their mom first, (00:09:35) but I'm also their friend. (00:09:36) I'm also someone that they trust and admire and they come to (00:09:41) and I listen to them and I give them my opinions (00:09:44) and we have forged a friendship, (00:09:47) but it's not without my position as the authority (00:09:50) in their life, their provider, their comfort, their mama. (00:09:54) - In my mind, once my kids are 18 (00:09:58) or let's just say moved out of the house, they are an adult (00:10:01) and at that point, I wanna stop parenting. (00:10:04) If I haven't parented enough by the time they're 18 (00:10:08) then that was my chance. (00:10:10) I don't wanna be a parent after 18. (00:10:12) And when it comes to clubbing, I hope (00:10:15) that when my kid is old and grown up (00:10:18) and they're going out for a beer at a bar, (00:10:20) whatever they're doing, of course, I wanna come with them. (00:10:23) - But here's the thing I just wanna stay (00:10:25) on the other side of that is that we never stop growing up. (00:10:28) I mean, man, I don't have parents. I wish I did. (00:10:32) There's some times where I just, (00:10:35) I wish I could just ask for help. (00:10:37) I mean, my grandmother just passed away in May (00:10:41) and I remember like, just feeling like, what am I gonna do? (00:10:46) And that was not a friend moment. (00:10:48) That was me hiding like a little child (00:10:51) on her lap weeping, crying and needing that. (00:10:54) - [Jenny] I guess I don't want that. (00:10:56) - No, you're gonna do that. (00:10:57) If your kid comes to you, (00:10:58) I'm sure you will. - Of course, (00:10:59) - You will, right. - I guess I just want this. (00:11:02) - I want them to be very independent. (00:11:05) - Right, right, right, but you can be very independent. (00:11:07) She's super independent. - Yeah, yeah for sure. (00:11:09) - With your own mother, do you have a mother? (00:11:11) And if you do, do you ever just need your mama sometimes? (00:11:15) Do you ever just-- - Not really. (00:11:16) - You don't need to like-- - No, (00:11:18) - Get hugs or-- (00:11:20) - I speak to her like she's my friend. (00:11:22) - Okay. - Now, (00:11:23) and I think I spoke to her as my friend (00:11:25) when I was growing up as well (00:11:27) because she never, she didn't parent. I had no rules (00:11:30) - And that's, so that explains a lot (00:11:33) when you talk about your philosophy, (00:11:35) it's really a firsthand account (00:11:37) where maybe some of the rest of us are like exploring (00:11:40) how we might want to parent. (00:11:42) - Right, but we all raise our children probably (00:11:45) according to a little bit of (00:11:47) how we were raised. - [Hal] What we know. (00:11:48) - What we know, what we wished had been different (00:11:51) and then there's so many societal influences. (00:11:54) - [Jenny] Sure. (00:11:55) (swoosh sound) (00:11:57) - [Interviewer] You mentioned before, you were kind (00:11:59) of facing everything on your own (00:12:01) that you didn't have parents to kinda guide you. (00:12:04) How do you think that that has shaped the way (00:12:07) that you parent? (00:12:09) - Growing up without the security (00:12:13) of knowing who I was and knowing (00:12:17) that I was dearly loved and cherished (00:12:21) by my mother and father was soul crushing for me. (00:12:27) As a mother, I have the opportunity (00:12:29) to raise up a new generation of healthy whole individuals (00:12:36) who are able to go forth (00:12:39) and create new families of their own (00:12:42) and be a light in this world (00:12:45) and that's really what my hope is of my children. (00:12:49) - [Interviewer] Spanking your child (00:12:50) is an acceptable form of punishment. (00:12:54) - What? I don't wanna get involved at all. (00:12:57) - Yeah, this is not. (00:12:59) - [Jody] Do we have to? (00:13:00) - [Lenore] We don't have to do it at all. (00:13:02) - [Jody] I don't even wanna stand back here. (00:13:05) - [Interviewer] Well, we don't have to, (00:13:06) you guys don't have to participate (00:13:07) in the conversation whatsoever. (00:13:08) - [Jody] But is it gonna show our position (00:13:10) like standing back or sitting? (00:13:12) - [Interviewer] We do see you guys in the background (00:13:13) but we just wanna hear his perspective (00:13:15) then people can walk forward. (00:13:17) but if you don't wanna participate (00:13:18) in the conversation whatsoever, you don't have to. (00:13:21) - Well, yeah so I'm kind of sad (00:13:23) that nobody else walked forward (00:13:24) because not only do I think it's an acceptable form (00:13:27) of punishment, but I think it's one of the best (00:13:30) and the reason is because it's effective, (00:13:33) it's quick, it's over, it's done (00:13:35) and the kid can go off and play again and not have to sit (00:13:38) in a corner or languish in a room or something like that (00:13:40) and it's not about getting angry. (00:13:42) I'm mad. I'm gonna whack my kid. (00:13:44) No, it's about, (00:13:45) "Okay, you did something you weren't supposed to do (00:13:48) and you're going to get spanked for this." (00:13:49) (swoosh sound) (00:13:50) - [Interviewer] So I'm gonna ask any of my disagrees (00:13:52) who wish to step forward to talk about this, please do. (00:13:55) If you wish not to step forward, you don't have to. (00:14:02) - The specific anecdote I have is for my child is one time (00:14:06) like, as a parent, you can lose your patience (00:14:09) and that happens. (00:14:11) We were just kind of like slap him on the hand (00:14:12) when he did something like, "Don't do that, don't do that." (00:14:15) And I remember one time, he did something (00:14:18) and he started become more self-aware (00:14:19) and he started hitting himself on the hand (00:14:21) and hitting himself (00:14:23) and I was like, "I can't do this is, I can't, (00:14:26) we can't go down this path with him. (00:14:28) This is not gonna work for at least specifically for him." (00:14:31) And I think it's a case by case basis too (00:14:33) like, you've led your kids in a way (00:14:34) that hopefully he doesn't lash out into the real world. (00:14:37) I don't want him to react like that to someone else either (00:14:39) and I just feel like that's my responsibility so. (00:14:41) - Yeah, and I hear that opponents to spank (00:14:44) and will say, "I don't want my child to be violent." (00:14:47) I have five kids, 10 and under, (00:14:49) and the exact opposite is true. (00:14:51) - Because do you think it's a bad memory for them? (00:14:53) - What's that? (00:14:54) - Do you think that they're gonna have memories (00:14:56) of these times being spanked and that it will be-- (00:14:59) - Sure and I think (00:15:00) - they'd be thankful for it? - Something that they be-- (00:15:02) - I would do because I talk-- (00:15:04) - I mean, I would be lying (00:15:05) if I said I never have spanked my child. (00:15:07) Of course but I don't ever, (00:15:09) I don't feel good about it. (00:15:11) Don't you wanna raise your child (00:15:12) to not want to do things (00:15:14) because they feel as if they'll be a better person (00:15:16) not because they're going to be punished for it? (00:15:18) - Yeah, both. See, this is hard for me to understand (00:15:21) because I come from a culture (00:15:22) where everyone like all my friends have loving parents (00:15:26) that spanked them as kids (00:15:27) and now they've grown up to be great functional, (00:15:29) well functional adults who respect their parents (00:15:32) and are glad their parents spanked them. (00:15:34) - Okay. I'm just gonna tell, say my view (00:15:37) so I don't spank my child one, (00:15:39) because of child slavery and Jim Crow, I'm a black person (00:15:43) and I live in a world (00:15:44) where black people are beat in all the time. (00:15:48) I have a mother who spanked me. (00:15:51) I'm not glad that I was spanked. (00:15:53) I respect her, but I'm not happy about that. (00:15:55) Also the same thing with the people who are like, (00:15:57) I was spanked, I came out, right. (00:15:59) They usually have like anger issues. (00:16:01) They're violent. They whoop their own kids. (00:16:03) They probably need therapy. (00:16:04) Usually, they don't even realize (00:16:05) how emotionally (beep) up they are. (00:16:08) - Well, you gotta understand. (00:16:09) Parenting is more than just I spank or I don't spank. (00:16:12) If you're a terrible parent, (00:16:13) and you think that spanking's gonna fix your kid, (00:16:15) you're wrong. (00:16:16) (swoosh sound) (00:16:17) - [Interviewer] I sometimes fear (00:16:19) I am raising my children the wrong way. (00:16:26) - I think part of parenting is always worrying. (00:16:29) I mean, as hard as I try to do the right things, (00:16:34) there's always doubts in your mind (00:16:35) that you've done something wrong. (00:16:37) - I love to tell parents, especially new ones (00:16:39) that we're all wing it. (00:16:41) We're making mistakes every day (00:16:43) but the good thing about it is that our kids still love us (00:16:47) they still look at us like, mommy (00:16:49) and their eyes-- - Or friends. (00:16:51) - Right, right, right, club buddy. (00:16:54) - So like parenting is literally (00:16:56) just like one huge experiment. (00:16:58) - That's a nice expression. (00:16:59) Parenting is one huge as experiment. (00:17:02) People think that I have the answer (00:17:04) 'cause I wrote "Free-Range Kids" and I run this, let grow (00:17:06) and all I can say is (00:17:07) that believing in your kids, believing in them (00:17:11) whether you give them a time out or you're spanking them, (00:17:12) believing that your kids have this capacity (00:17:15) for being a decent human being (00:17:17) and they're gonna make mistakes, they're gonna be okay. (00:17:21) That's what kids want. (00:17:22) (swoosh sound) (00:17:25) - So first of all, I think that parents are too hard (00:17:29) on themselves and you know what, (00:17:31) ultimately your children gonna make their own decisions. (00:17:35) For me, I don't wonder about whether (00:17:38) or not I'm raising my kids right (00:17:39) 'cause I try to raise my kids according (00:17:41) to what the Bible says (00:17:42) and so I have a guide (00:17:44) that I fall short fulfilling all the time, (00:17:48) but I look to it as my guide. (00:17:50) And so just a few simple guidelines (00:17:52) if you follow and you love your kids, (00:17:54) you care about 'em and spend time with them (00:17:57) then ultimately they're gonna be okay. (00:18:00) - I just love my kids so much (00:18:02) and I give them 110%. (00:18:06) One of the neat things that I'm giving my kids, (00:18:09) it's a little bit different is a mother (00:18:11) and father who are married and faithful to one another (00:18:15) which I didn't have that. (00:18:16) And so, it makes me feel really good (00:18:19) that I'm giving them that. (00:18:20) I know that I'll never just be totally set (00:18:24) in my ways and be unwilling (00:18:27) to change and to become a better mother (00:18:30) so I will never give up growing myself. (00:18:35) - The one piece of parenting advice I give everyone (00:18:37) is don't listen to all the advice (00:18:39) because the beautiful thing (00:18:41) about parenting is it's not what you're teaching your child (00:18:43) but sometimes what you're learning with your child. (00:18:45) - I think we all just want the same things. (00:18:48) Everybody wants their children to be confident (00:18:51) and secure in their love. (00:18:54) - It's just a lot of fun to have kids (00:18:57) and I always tell people, I said (00:18:59) "If you want to be a happier person, have more kids (00:19:01) 'cause kids are just so much fun."