The Inevitable Collapse of the Economy | Jeff Booth (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) I saw an interview with Elon Musk (00:00:02) recently where he talked about with AI (00:00:04) and super intelligence that we may get (00:00:06) to a point where we don't need money at (00:00:09) all and money doesn't play a role in our (00:00:12) world. The natural state of the free (00:00:14) market is deflation. He must see the (00:00:16) productivity gains around which those (00:00:19) exponential productivity gains would (00:00:21) lead to exponential deflation, right? If (00:00:24) you had money that wasn't cheated. But (00:00:27) because money is cheated, we live in (00:00:29) that debt based system that has to (00:00:31) essentially stop that productivity (00:00:33) flowing to 8 billion people on the (00:00:34) planet and concentrate that wealth into (00:00:38) very few hands. An AI today is the (00:00:41) slowest by far it will ever be. If you (00:00:44) have a vote in a democracy, you're a (00:00:45) liberal democracy, (00:00:48) but you don't have a vote in your money (00:00:49) that's stolen from you and it's it's way (00:00:53) more than the taxes, (00:00:55) then do you does your vote matter at (00:00:57) all? (00:01:03) >> Jeff, hi. How are you? (00:01:05) >> I'm great. Yourself? Welcome to London. (00:01:07) >> Thank you. Um, I saw an interview with (00:01:09) Elon Musk recently where he talked about (00:01:11) with AI and super intelligence that we (00:01:14) may get to a point where we don't need (00:01:16) money at all and money doesn't play a (00:01:19) role in our world. I'm trying to (00:01:22) understand the bridge between (00:01:24) now and there. If we're going to have (00:01:27) incredible level levels of productivity, (00:01:30) how is everything still going to be more (00:01:32) expensive? (00:01:34) Um, good question. actually really good (00:01:36) question because I think that's the (00:01:38) thing that I can't I haven't seen (00:01:40) somebody in the existing system (00:01:42) including Elon Musk talk about this in a (00:01:44) in a cohesive way. Um and and he must (00:01:49) know that the natural state of the free (00:01:51) market is deflation. He must see the (00:01:53) productivity gains around which those (00:01:55) exponential productivity gains would (00:01:58) lead to exponential deflation. Right? If (00:02:01) you had money that wasn't cheated. But (00:02:04) because money is cheated (00:02:06) and or I'll set a different way because (00:02:09) we live in a debt-based system that you (00:02:12) in a debt based system that lends money (00:02:13) into existence with no cost of money. It (00:02:18) has to create more and more money (00:02:19) forever. So your our perception of what (00:02:22) money is is broken because we live in (00:02:25) that debt based system that has to (00:02:27) essentially stop that productivity (00:02:29) flowing to 8 billion people on the (00:02:31) planet and concentrate that wealth into (00:02:34) very few hands and Elon is one of those (00:02:36) very few hands. Well, some some people (00:02:39) listening to my new version of my show (00:02:41) might not have read your book and I (00:02:42) encourage people read Jeff's book. It's (00:02:44) incredible. (00:02:45) It's probably a good good starting point (00:02:48) to explain to them about this def the (00:02:51) nature of money and why technology is (00:02:53) deflationary and the debt based system (00:02:55) breaks what should be a life where we uh (00:02:58) work less and everything's cheaper (00:03:00) faster and better. (00:03:01) >> Yeah. And this is going to for if it's (00:03:02) the first time you're hearing this, it's (00:03:04) going to like you Peter. (00:03:06) >> Yeah. It's going to it it's going to (00:03:09) challenge every mental model you've ever (00:03:11) had because we can say if the natural (00:03:14) state of the free market is deflation, (00:03:17) right? And that is true because (00:03:19) entrepreneurs have to create more value (00:03:21) than what was there before and we only (00:03:24) use the things that are more valuable. (00:03:25) So they fail in the market if they don't (00:03:28) create more value. So the free market is (00:03:30) a perfect (00:03:32) system whereby it it's an infinite game. (00:03:35) Everybody wins. entrepreneur wins a (00:03:37) little bit, you win and the prices fall (00:03:39) as a result. Now, in that world, prices (00:03:44) fall to the marginal cost of production. (00:03:46) Economics 101, prices fall to the (00:03:47) marginal cost of production. So, so (00:03:49) lines of code like your calculator app (00:03:52) fall to zero because entrepreneurs (00:03:54) compete more and more. You still gain (00:03:57) value of your calculator app, right? But (00:03:59) it's free. Now you have to ask what is a (00:04:02) line of code creating other lines of (00:04:03) code which is where AI is go going right (00:04:07) that's free too and it provides and and (00:04:09) that's why you can see this exponential (00:04:11) explosion of productivity driving things (00:04:14) to free (00:04:17) um conflicting with a debt based system (00:04:19) that we've always lived in where (00:04:21) essentially since the 1600s where where (00:04:23) money was lent into existence a central (00:04:26) bank lends money into existence with an (00:04:29) interest rate that that system must (00:04:32) expand money forever. And what can you (00:04:36) say quite simply from that from what I (00:04:38) just said and this is what I explored in (00:04:40) in the book the race of tomorrow these (00:04:42) two systems would clash into each other (00:04:46) we would believe in the system that (00:04:48) we've always lived in and we would give (00:04:51) it more strength through our actions and (00:04:53) that would divide the world right (00:04:54) effectively that's the and and you (00:04:57) weren't going to slow down technology (00:04:58) right technology was because technology (00:05:00) is is when you say just technology it's (00:05:03) the things out of our brain s that we (00:05:06) try to solve to create more value. (00:05:08) That's what the free market is. And it's (00:05:10) exponential in in nature. And the other (00:05:13) thing I explored in my book um is if you (00:05:16) folded a piece of paper once, twice, (00:05:19) three times, four times, you can only (00:05:21) fold it seven times. But if if you could (00:05:23) imagine if you could fold it 50 times, (00:05:26) that piece of paper would reach from (00:05:28) here to the sun. You know, you know (00:05:30) that. And it still blows your brain. It (00:05:32) still blows my brain. (00:05:32) >> Yeah. It still blows your brain. (00:05:33) >> I still want to do it. Yeah, I know. You (00:05:35) can only fold at seven. (00:05:36) >> But but the pro and why I use that as an (00:05:39) analogy is everyone I talk to guesses 2 (00:05:42) in and I get guessed 2 in the first time (00:05:45) I thought about that what it would look (00:05:47) like. But an exponential pattern is (00:05:48) something we can't grasp. So if we have (00:05:51) an exponential pattern driving the free (00:05:53) market and productivity and deflation (00:05:56) that should be speeding abundance to all (00:06:00) of us. (00:06:01) Um, and we can't understand an (00:06:03) exponential pattern. It means it means (00:06:05) we're in the thick folds today, right? (00:06:08) Fold 36 moving to fold fold 37. Yi seems (00:06:12) like nothing for a long time and then it (00:06:15) seems like everything. We're in the (00:06:17) we're in the steep steps of that paper (00:06:19) folding. And an AI today is the slowest (00:06:24) by far it will ever be. And that means (00:06:27) that productivity driven from it should (00:06:30) serve you. But in a debt based system, (00:06:33) it can't in a debt pay system. And there (00:06:36) is nobody in that debt pay system that (00:06:38) can solve that riddle. Right? There's no (00:06:41) politician. There's no there's no single (00:06:43) there's no person. It's a system problem (00:06:46) and we are the system. So um that's what (00:06:50) I that that's what I explored in the (00:06:52) book and and so you could read the book (00:06:54) today and you could it was written seven (00:06:55) years ago. You could see (00:06:58) it's like you had a you it's like you (00:07:00) had a time machine because you could see (00:07:02) the future. And it was a very very (00:07:04) simple (00:07:06) premise about a structural change that (00:07:09) was driving into humanity that most (00:07:11) people would take aside in the old (00:07:14) system and blame somebody else within (00:07:16) the old system because they didn't want (00:07:18) to take responsibility themselves. So in (00:07:20) some ways is AI exposing (00:07:24) this conflict even more in that we seem (00:07:27) to be heading towards this kind of (00:07:28) singularity this uh you know when Elon (00:07:31) talks about robots being able to create (00:07:34) robots but with super intelligence we (00:07:36) get to a point where there won't be (00:07:38) enough work for the 8 billion people on (00:07:40) the planet yet we're still going to have (00:07:41) the debt to service. So this kind of (00:07:43) exponential growth of abundance versus (00:07:45) exponential growth of debt and there's (00:07:47) going to be a clash (00:07:48) >> there. There all there has been there (00:07:50) has been for a long time. We're living (00:07:52) through that clash and people are (00:07:54) measuring that clash through the old (00:07:56) system is what's h what's happening. So (00:07:58) so the debt's been insolvent for a long (00:08:00) time. The debt's been insolvent for (00:08:03) actually probably forever because if you (00:08:05) allowed the free market to work, (00:08:07) productivity flowing to the people, (00:08:10) the debt would have collapsed (00:08:11) immediately, right? Because because (00:08:15) deflation cannot be allowed in in a debt (00:08:18) pay system. So people conflate those two (00:08:21) things. Econ economists conflate those (00:08:23) two things. They say inflation (00:08:25) deflation's bad without saying from a (00:08:29) system. (00:08:31) Why would why would productivity flowing (00:08:34) to you naturally? So you had to work (00:08:36) less and gain more forever where you (00:08:40) where where you got more and more (00:08:42) forever and ever by the competition of 8 (00:08:44) billion people on the planet in service (00:08:46) to you. How could that be bad? Right? (00:08:50) It's bad from a system that won't allow (00:08:52) that. is bad for debt. It's because the (00:08:55) debt blows up. And so these two things (00:08:57) are almost inverse images, right? One's (00:09:00) trying to drive pricing down and and a (00:09:04) lot of the things that used to be in GDP (00:09:06) like your calculator app like a whole (00:09:10) you still gain value from them. Now you (00:09:13) have to price other things higher to (00:09:15) make sure all prices go up from this (00:09:17) other system. You have to create (00:09:19) scarcity from a debt pay system. And to (00:09:22) to and and remember it's there is no (00:09:25) such thing as 2% inflation like the (00:09:30) system should be deflationary. The (00:09:32) system should be so today's deflation (00:09:35) rate if you measured productivity (00:09:36) without all of this nonsense is probably (00:09:39) between five and and 10%. (00:09:43) Meaning if you have inflation on top of (00:09:45) that that's how much is being stolen (00:09:47) from you. uh per year. Ask where does (00:09:50) that where does it where does that (00:09:52) stolen money go? It (00:09:53) >> goes to the assets. (00:09:54) >> Yeah. And not just to the assets. Why do (00:09:56) you think Epstein looks like Epstein? (00:09:58) Right. Why do you think the whole (00:10:00) political class everywhere is in and (00:10:02) every all the entire system (00:10:06) is still look looks like that. Where (00:10:08) does that money come from? That system (00:10:11) has to look like that because it's all (00:10:13) that money is stolen from you, right? (00:10:16) It's stolen from eight billion people on (00:10:18) the planet and transferred into a bunch (00:10:20) into a scop that has to look (00:10:22) increasingly like that. And when then (00:10:25) that in that scop you have to control (00:10:27) people to hold them in that scop. (00:10:31) >> I don't think we've got to that level (00:10:33) you and I in these conversations before (00:10:35) where now you're connecting the (00:10:37) something like Epstein to this (00:10:39) >> it so so we we haven't because I always (00:10:42) wanted to take the high road. Yeah. (00:10:44) >> Right. And and so I just I just (00:10:47) >> But they're not hiding it anymore. (00:10:48) >> Well, so so I'll bet you just about (00:10:51) everybody that's watching your show (00:10:53) right now, this will feel really hard to (00:10:55) understand even though it's the most (00:10:57) simple thing, right? Natural state of (00:10:59) the free market is deflation. If you (00:11:01) can't dis disprove that, right, if you (00:11:04) look into that and and go down to the (00:11:06) sand and you know that's true, it means (00:11:08) you've never lived in a free market, but (00:11:11) you believe you do. If is is it so is (00:11:14) this a problem of having digital money (00:11:16) controlled by government (00:11:18) >> digital any money (00:11:19) >> controlled free market for money would (00:11:21) this happen? (00:11:23) >> Um so no it would it'd be messy on the (00:11:25) way through but but but any so if you (00:11:29) look at gold right gold centralizes (00:11:32) um and then then governments change gold (00:11:35) so that the derivative instrument on top (00:11:38) can still uh can still allow inflation. (00:11:41) Right? So, so gold has always done this (00:11:43) same thing and then when it breaks (00:11:46) there's typically global conflict wars (00:11:49) go back to say we're never going to do (00:11:51) that again and start it again. Right? (00:11:54) You just have to start the most simple (00:11:55) thing in the world. If the natural state (00:11:57) of the free market is deflation and (00:11:59) spend some time with it, right? Really (00:12:01) spend some time with it. Then then you (00:12:04) have to realize you've never lived in (00:12:05) one and all of these other things come (00:12:08) into focus. they come into it has to (00:12:10) look like that. Not and you you there's (00:12:13) bad people, (00:12:15) >> but I try to go thinking if I'm if I'm (00:12:19) inside that fight thinking it's this (00:12:21) leader or this leader or this leader and (00:12:23) they're still on that same money, (00:12:26) how could I solve it? How could anyone (00:12:29) solve it? This show is brought to you by (00:12:31) my lead sponsor, Iron, the AI cloud for (00:12:34) the next big thing. Iron builds and (00:12:36) operates next generation data centers (00:12:38) and delivers cuttingedge GPU (00:12:40) infrastructure all powered by renewable (00:12:42) energy. Now if you need access to (00:12:45) scalable GPU clusters or are simply (00:12:47) curious about who is powering the future (00:12:49) of AI check out iron.com to learn more (00:12:52) which is ir.com. (00:12:56) I was listening to the All-In podcast (00:12:57) yesterday and they were talking about (00:12:59) some quite scary numbers. Social (00:13:00) Security uh running out by 2032, (00:13:05) the um the increase in the average (00:13:08) increase in the debt of 2.5 trillion a (00:13:11) year per year uh until 2030. Um and all (00:13:17) of them, all four of them are talking (00:13:19) about this is starting to break. (00:13:21) >> Yeah. But it felt like that for a long (00:13:23) time, Jeff. It it's (00:13:26) so if you look at and we'll get into (00:13:28) Bitcoin in a second, but if you look at (00:13:30) Bitcoin just bounded by energy as (00:13:32) decentralized secure protocol bounded by (00:13:34) energy, then you can see it's measuring (00:13:38) what I just described. As long as it (00:13:40) stays decentralized and secure, it's (00:13:42) measuring prices falling forever. Now (00:13:44) it'll be volatile but all of the people (00:13:47) arguing from the other side 2.5 trillion (00:13:49) 8 trillion COVID response it's just (00:13:52) another there has to be more things more (00:13:56) fear coercion control to keep you more (00:14:00) more surveillance (00:14:02) to keep you in that system because it's (00:14:04) not natural the natural state of the (00:14:06) free market is deflation we serve each (00:14:08) other right with that though do you (00:14:11) think they do you think they always know (00:14:13) or do you I think their responses are (00:14:15) natural responses to them trying to make (00:14:17) balance the books as best they can. (00:14:19) >> So, so if you start again start with the (00:14:22) first principles of those two things, a (00:14:24) debt based system can't allow deflation. (00:14:26) Natural state of the free market is (00:14:28) deflation. They're they can never go (00:14:31) together. They're opposite systems. So (00:14:34) this that system can't balance the (00:14:36) books. (00:14:36) >> No, but they try and keep that system (00:14:38) going like as best they can. (00:14:40) >> In other words in other words, steal (00:14:42) more from you. Yes. (00:14:45) >> Hire more people, more things to steal (00:14:48) more from you. (00:14:48) >> Less less rights, higher taxes. (00:14:52) >> How do how do you how do you make that (00:14:55) palatable for a population? It's two (00:14:57) sides of that equation. You have to (00:15:00) create us versus them. This side has to (00:15:02) be right against the other side. One (00:15:04) side, (00:15:06) one side moves to socialism. um because (00:15:09) because that that side um is looking at (00:15:14) all of the people who don't have assets (00:15:16) and they want a piece of the pie. So (00:15:18) they vote for those people that will (00:15:20) promise them free money for nothing and (00:15:22) it expands. One uh one side moves to (00:15:26) fascism (00:15:27) to be able to to pretend they were in a (00:15:31) free market, right? But it's not a free (00:15:33) market. And so and that divides society (00:15:36) on both and it's always happened. It (00:15:38) just we re uh we replay the system when (00:15:41) we go to war and then we we start again. (00:15:44) >> But how much do you think it's organic (00:15:46) and how much do you think it's planned? (00:15:48) >> There is no they right that that's why I (00:15:51) start from a system system level it's a (00:15:55) now there are people will who will find (00:15:57) if you had a system based on theft (00:16:00) >> and we know that system is based on (00:16:02) theft. Yeah. (00:16:03) >> Right. Now, that's a hard harsh word (00:16:05) because most people don't know that. Um, (00:16:08) but if you had a system based on theft, (00:16:10) how could you resolve the conflicts in (00:16:12) the world from a system based on theft (00:16:14) that had to worse that had to (00:16:16) increasingly increase the amount of (00:16:18) theft because the natural state of the (00:16:20) free market is opposite. So, so it's (00:16:23) unre it's unfixable from a system for um (00:16:28) or you could say it a different way (00:16:30) where we are in with technology where we (00:16:33) are with how fast technology is moving a (00:16:36) debt based debt based monetary system (00:16:38) cannot work without concentrating all (00:16:40) power in very few people who tell you (00:16:42) what you get. (00:16:44) >> Okay. And who are those? I had Simon (00:16:46) Dixon in here and he he told me that the (00:16:49) asset managers run the world. (00:16:50) >> Yeah. And and I actually like Simon. I (00:16:53) really like Simon's stuff. And and so (00:16:55) but we look at it from different (00:16:56) different paths. I that fear of creating (00:17:00) another they (00:17:03) removes our own ability to do something (00:17:05) about it. (00:17:06) >> Okay. (00:17:06) >> Right. And and so and and that's what (00:17:09) that's what the system will will want (00:17:12) you to do. Um here here's a way to uh I (00:17:16) don't know. Let's let's go to your next (00:17:18) question instead of Bitcoin. Well, so I (00:17:20) mean is there an you talk about there's (00:17:23) an inevitability that this fiat system (00:17:25) will collapse? (00:17:26) >> It it it it's not natural. (00:17:27) >> It's not natural. But when Yeah. When (00:17:31) does it collapse? And how will we know (00:17:32) it? We know it's collapsing. (00:17:35) Is it always collapsing or is there is (00:17:38) is there a collapse? Is there a moment (00:17:40) you're like, "Okay, this is we're done." (00:17:42) >> So So again, it collapses when we stand (00:17:45) up and make it collapse. Typically when (00:17:47) we stand up and make a collapse is when (00:17:49) we lose trust in that system because it (00:17:51) extracts so much from us that we can't (00:17:54) and and and that's why it typically that (00:17:56) system reverts back to the same system (00:17:59) and because we go to war thinking that (00:18:02) there's a resolve (00:18:04) >> it resets (00:18:04) >> from resets and then um World War I, (00:18:07) World War II um same thing resets (00:18:10) through time and then and then we build (00:18:12) nice monuments to say we'll never people (00:18:14) again build instit institutions that end (00:18:17) up driving (00:18:19) essentially enshrining theft. (00:18:22) And all of those institutions are part (00:18:24) of the next thing that makes it (00:18:26) collapse. And when people start to see (00:18:27) it, they start to there there's probably (00:18:32) no one watching your show right now that (00:18:34) when if they just looked at that from (00:18:35) our first principles can't see it in (00:18:37) them. They're mad, they're anxious, (00:18:40) they're fearful. But but what ends up (00:18:42) happening is if if you put in it's not (00:18:46) you, it's this person, right? You can (00:18:50) get people to bite on anything because (00:18:52) you want to believe it's somebody else. (00:18:54) Just remember, would you would you allow (00:18:56) allow a monetary system based on debt, (00:19:00) which is this studio, all the (00:19:03) restaurants downstairs, the entire (00:19:04) world, every banking system. Would you (00:19:07) allow allow that from that system (00:19:11) to allow deflation? And you wouldn't, (00:19:14) right? So, so we'll finish this podcast, (00:19:18) you'll go spend money in that system and (00:19:21) think it's somebody else, right? And and (00:19:24) it's us inside that system that that (00:19:29) we have to opt out because there is no (00:19:31) resolve from that system. But but the (00:19:34) more we're in this, the more mad we'll (00:19:36) get. Right. The more the more I'm going (00:19:39) to solve it, right? Whole bunch of (00:19:41) people will Yeah, you're the guy and the (00:19:43) other person's the bad guy because (00:19:44) they'll want to believe it's not them. (00:19:48) H (00:19:51) So unless (00:19:54) we have (00:19:56) I mean at the moment the UK is not in (00:19:58) good shape. (00:19:59) >> Where in the world is in good shape? (00:20:01) >> Switzerland seems okay. (00:20:04) Uh, and certain individuals are doing (00:20:06) okay and certain companies are doing (00:20:08) okay. I'm doing okay, Jeff. Um, (00:20:12) >> but I've kind of opted out like you. (00:20:13) We're going to get into Bitcoin. Um, (00:20:17) but we see these constant fights. We (00:20:19) move from election to election. It's (00:20:21) existential crisis to existential (00:20:22) crisis. If the Dems win the next (00:20:24) election in the US, it's going to be an (00:20:26) existential crisis for America. If JD (00:20:28) Vance wins, it's going to existential (00:20:30) crisis here in the UK. I mean the Labour (00:20:32) party are they're going to go from (00:20:33) having a parliamentary majority they're (00:20:35) predicted to get four seats in the next (00:20:37) election. I mean that is unprecedented. (00:20:40) The Conservative party are predicted to (00:20:43) be the fourth biggest party. Uh reform (00:20:47) have been leading the polls. They didn't (00:20:49) exist a few years ago. Rert Low (00:20:51) announced yesterday that he's going to (00:20:53) well he launched his party. He's already (00:20:55) polling at 10%. (00:20:58) I think everyone knows something is (00:20:59) wrong. (00:21:01) They're looking for an answer, which is (00:21:02) why these new parties appear and grow (00:21:04) really quickly. But unless one of those (00:21:07) comes out and says, "This is the problem (00:21:09) and this is how we solve it," nothing (00:21:12) gets solved. (00:21:13) >> That's exactly. So, every single uh (00:21:16) voter should ask (00:21:19) it should ask their politicians, is the (00:21:22) natural state of the free market (00:21:23) deflation? (00:21:24) >> It's the only question to ask. (00:21:25) >> Only question. And if they can't answer (00:21:28) that and if they say or if they say yes, (00:21:31) then ask them how are you going to (00:21:33) resolve this, what are you going to do (00:21:35) to resolve this? Because if if if the (00:21:38) people watching your show look backwards (00:21:40) and backwards again and backwards again (00:21:42) as things have gotten worse and worse (00:21:44) and worse, their lives it's and and (00:21:46) they're they're leaning in and giving (00:21:48) more strength to the system that's (00:21:50) stealing their energy faster and faster. (00:21:53) they'll realize that this election too (00:21:55) won't make any difference. There has to (00:21:57) be always a bigger crisis from a system (00:22:00) based on theft to keep people in fear to (00:22:03) be keep people locked locked in. And I'm (00:22:05) not saying all of the party leaders or (00:22:07) all the people aren't there's not good (00:22:10) people but but the foundational thing is (00:22:14) a different question. The foundational (00:22:15) question is thing is that system cannot (00:22:18) be resolved. a debt based system. You (00:22:20) can't fix a system problem from the (00:22:22) system creating the problem. (00:22:24) >> No, none of the political parties are (00:22:26) having this conversation. They're having (00:22:27) conversations about debt. (00:22:29) >> Yeah. (00:22:29) >> Yeah. The RERT low put in a bill into (00:22:31) parliament to uh ban QE in the country. (00:22:35) They wanted to ban that. (00:22:35) >> So, so, so think what that would do. (00:22:37) Now, a lot of people will vote for that. (00:22:39) If you ban QE in the country, you will (00:22:42) go into deflationary depression. (00:22:43) >> Yes. (00:22:44) >> Every bank will fail. Every all (00:22:47) everything will fail. If you go into if (00:22:49) you um now on the other side (00:22:52) >> because it can't service the debt (00:22:53) >> because it can't service the debt. The (00:22:54) debts are the debt the debt was (00:22:55) insolvent from a again against the free (00:22:58) market. The debt's insolvent by the time (00:23:00) it's started. Now if you had exponential (00:23:03) productivity which means exponentially (00:23:05) pricing falling prices that debt gets (00:23:08) more and more expensive until it fails. (00:23:11) Right? So the debts, all of the money in (00:23:14) the world, all of the money in the (00:23:15) world, the makebelieve pieces of paper (00:23:18) that people are pricing in and saying, (00:23:19) "What? What more debt?" (00:23:21) It's all gone to money heaven already. (00:23:24) I'm stealing from uh from Larry Leopard (00:23:26) is is money heaven. But uh um it's (00:23:29) already gone to money heaven. Now, it's (00:23:31) only a perception that you allow it to (00:23:33) be debased more and more and more (00:23:36) without asking the question, if it was (00:23:38) debased more and more, wouldn't that (00:23:40) lead to greater surveillance? Wouldn't (00:23:42) that lead to greater centralization? (00:23:43) Wouldn't that and and why is nobody (00:23:45) talking about the most simple thing, the (00:23:48) most simple thing in the world? They're (00:23:50) all talking about this nonsense uh above (00:23:53) above the first principle. (00:23:57) >> Perhaps some don't know. (00:23:59) >> Most don't know. Yeah. Yeah. They don't (00:24:00) they just don't actually know. They (00:24:02) haven't read your book. They haven't (00:24:04) studied money. They just are responding (00:24:07) to the decision the the things that put (00:24:09) in front of them every day as a (00:24:10) politician or the decisions they've had (00:24:12) to make. They haven't actually. But if (00:24:14) you if you had that politician in front (00:24:16) of you and you had them answer that (00:24:20) question um is the natural state of the (00:24:22) market deflationary (00:24:24) and maybe they didn't know but you (00:24:25) explained to them they suddenly (00:24:26) understood it. What do they do next? typ (00:24:29) typically go back to so and that's why (00:24:32) so you know this how many times have we (00:24:34) talked about it and it and it it takes a (00:24:37) long time for it to click right (00:24:39) >> yeah I think I mean I think it's (00:24:42) I understood it the first time I read (00:24:43) your book which was six seven years ago (00:24:46) I think I think when it pretty much (00:24:47) first came out and as I said I went back (00:24:49) and I text you I went back and read it (00:24:51) again because it clicked in a different (00:24:53) way (00:24:54) >> y (00:24:54) >> I think it clicked when I became more of (00:24:56) a beneficiary from the (00:24:59) I I I I laughed and I laugh well you and (00:25:02) I traded some texts laughing because (00:25:03) because each time I've gone on your (00:25:05) podcast (00:25:07) you've said now I get it. (00:25:09) >> Yeah. (00:25:10) >> And and but again it's such a deep (00:25:12) concept. It's so the depth of it because (00:25:15) you have to realize you're essentially (00:25:17) you're letting go of a lie one finger at (00:25:19) a time, right? And you don't want to let (00:25:21) go of that lie because it served you (00:25:24) well from the other system. M (00:25:25) >> so we we we we want to okay yep that's (00:25:29) true but it can also coexist with this (00:25:32) other system and we just go straight (00:25:34) back to what we do all the all day long (00:25:36) we go straight back to the centralized (00:25:38) media centralized coercion centralized (00:25:42) everything else and from that system (00:25:44) we're we're measuring everything from (00:25:46) that system we don't know we're stuck in (00:25:48) that system and the the thing that's so (00:25:51) easy that the the free market is an (00:25:54) infinite game you it says one thing. You (00:25:57) must provide value to somebody else to (00:26:00) be able to get paid and the result of (00:26:01) your actions uh of of providing value or (00:26:06) in service of everyone because then (00:26:07) those other people compete with you to (00:26:09) provide more value (00:26:10) >> and prices fall faster and faster. (00:26:12) >> I I think the reason it clicked this (00:26:14) time, Jeff, and I'll probably tell you (00:26:16) it get in a couple years it's clicked (00:26:17) again, but I think it really clicked (00:26:18) this time is because I've got close to (00:26:20) politics. I've got close to the levers (00:26:22) of power to the point of considering do (00:26:26) I run as an MP and then I'm trying to (00:26:28) understand well if I do based on what I (00:26:30) know about money and economics my (00:26:33) limited understanding and like what what (00:26:35) are the things I could do to fix this (00:26:38) and all I've I've seen the the negative (00:26:40) side the inf the loss of our rights in (00:26:43) this country the infringement of our (00:26:44) rights it's I it's embarrassing we've (00:26:46) got this real authoritarian streak at (00:26:48) the moment (00:26:49) >> yeah I'm I'm watching all over the world (00:26:52) But it's here. It's it feels fast. Like (00:26:54) the things they want to change, get rid (00:26:55) of jury trials, digital ID, (00:26:58) infringements on our speech. So we've (00:27:00) got the all these infringements on our (00:27:01) rights. We've got this massive increase (00:27:04) in bureaucracy. But it's bureaucracy (00:27:06) which is creating new industries, (00:27:08) bureaucratic industries, HR, accounting, (00:27:10) legal. (00:27:11) >> We've got minimum wages going up. And (00:27:13) the problem with the minimum wages is (00:27:15) that it's creating wage compression now (00:27:17) in that the lowest amount of money you (00:27:20) can say if you collect trolley at a (00:27:21) supermarket is very close to a lower (00:27:23) middle class wage now. So I'm seeing (00:27:25) that and so I've been looking at all (00:27:26) this and saying how do you fix it? How (00:27:27) do you fix it? What are the things you (00:27:29) can do? And I often come back to oh it (00:27:33) can't be fixed. (00:27:35) >> So that's (00:27:35) >> or I can't fix it. So, so you can um and (00:27:39) and you you might be perfectly (00:27:42) positioned to if you wanted to take (00:27:44) leadership, but then be honest that now (00:27:46) would would people vote for you being (00:27:48) honest and it maybe not this cycle (00:27:50) because they're not ready for the (00:27:51) honesty. (00:27:52) >> Um that's what happened with Blly, (00:27:54) >> right? And they were ready for honesty, (00:27:56) right? And they were ready for a a bold (00:27:59) leader who would drive Bitcoin into (00:28:02) their country. And if you look at that (00:28:03) country, if I just went back again, the (00:28:06) difference to watch to watch the UK go (00:28:09) one way. (00:28:10) >> Yeah. (00:28:10) >> And to watch El Salvador go the other (00:28:13) way. (00:28:13) >> Um it's it's remarkable. I've been there (00:28:16) four times over the last four years. And (00:28:18) four years ago, you were there too. It (00:28:20) was a scary place. (00:28:21) >> Very scary place. (00:28:22) >> Now (00:28:23) >> it's safe. (00:28:24) >> Not just not just safe. this center of (00:28:27) San Salvador is like it looks like a (00:28:29) beautiful uh um European city and people (00:28:33) kids are out playing in in the streets (00:28:36) 11:00 at night families are around it's (00:28:39) it's stunning it's absolutely stunning (00:28:41) and so but again what ends up happening (00:28:44) is he took a bold step because he (00:28:47) couldn't do anything from that other (00:28:48) system and he went really hard to try to (00:28:52) rip it all out. So, if somebody's (00:28:55) listening to this and you're mentioning (00:28:57) Bitcoin and we still live in a world (00:28:59) where the vast majority of the people (00:29:00) when you say to them about Bitcoin, they (00:29:02) still think it's some kind of scam, some (00:29:04) kind of, you know, online scam, some (00:29:07) internet currency, they don't (00:29:08) understand. They don't understand how (00:29:09) it's foundational to repairing the (00:29:12) problem of debt and inflation in our (00:29:13) country. What's the easiest way you (00:29:15) could explain that to somebody? Um (00:29:19) so so ask ask them to ask what is money (00:29:23) first right and all money is is an (00:29:26) abstract concept of our trade and so if (00:29:30) money to you if that abstract concept of (00:29:33) our trade between humans can be (00:29:35) manipulated then what would happen to (00:29:38) humans trade right everything coming (00:29:41) from that that trade would be (00:29:43) manipulated and we know for sure how we (00:29:45) define money pieces of paper that can in (00:29:47) be infinitely printed (00:29:50) um is manipulation. So what would you (00:29:53) expect if you saw technology which (00:29:55) should should provide abundance and you (00:29:58) saw infinitely more pieces of paper (00:30:00) which was manipulation of our time and (00:30:03) you were measuring from that you would (00:30:05) expect to see everything you see. So, so (00:30:09) I type I take think about kind of four (00:30:12) personas in understanding this and um (00:30:16) and and I know for me you know too cuz (00:30:19) you went through the same thing and you (00:30:22) go through this path and you also were (00:30:24) in the other system and you you move you (00:30:27) move systems and you see your life (00:30:29) getting better (00:30:29) >> exponentially better (00:30:30) >> exponentially better which should be all (00:30:32) humans on the planet. (00:30:33) >> Yeah. Right. So, so let's take four (00:30:36) different personas. And a persona like (00:30:38) is a almost a marketing word for a group (00:30:41) of people who act like this, right? And (00:30:44) so a persona, (00:30:46) you don't know that money is broken. Um, (00:30:50) and you're measuring through that money (00:30:53) to to you, Bitcoin just looks like (00:30:56) another scam, right? To uh that there's (00:31:00) no use case. What is this thing? I can (00:31:03) trust institutions. I can trust the (00:31:05) politicians. I can trust because you (00:31:07) have no idea that money is broken. (00:31:10) And and and by from that measure for you (00:31:15) what will come back, right? Your belief (00:31:17) will fe right back. You'll be watching (00:31:19) the same media believing that (00:31:21) something's not and you won't have no (00:31:23) idea. It'll be true for you. Um and your (00:31:26) life, if you had assets, those assets (00:31:29) will look like they're going up. If you (00:31:31) didn't have assets, it'll look like (00:31:32) you're losing faster and faster and (00:31:34) faster. Both both things, right? Even if (00:31:37) you had assets, you will not be able to (00:31:40) build walls high enough to fight what's (00:31:43) coming. Right? So on both both of those (00:31:46) people within that cohort (00:31:48) would believe that they were right and (00:31:52) they would see Bitcoin as a as just a (00:31:55) distraction. Take another cohort of (00:31:58) people or persona. they they see Bitcoin (00:32:01) as a um as a technology and and (00:32:06) technologies are typically win or take (00:32:08) most until a new technology replaces it. (00:32:10) And so from that viewpoint, you would be (00:32:15) easily look at crypto, blockchain, (00:32:17) everything else. And there'd always be (00:32:19) another better technology. And what you (00:32:21) would be doing from that standpoint is (00:32:23) you were try you were trying to get out (00:32:26) of this system. you knew something was (00:32:28) wrong and you wanted to get rich really (00:32:30) quickly with all of the uh with with all (00:32:33) the other you saw other people get rich, (00:32:34) you wanted to get rich really quickly, (00:32:36) too. So, you take more and more risk in (00:32:38) this. And what would the market serve (00:32:41) you? This market would serve you a whole (00:32:43) bunch of scams to be able to do that, (00:32:46) right? and they would be promoting more (00:32:48) and more scams (00:32:49) >> and and from that viewpoint um and and (00:32:52) then from the other viewpoint the the (00:32:54) person who didn't understand money they (00:32:56) would look at both of these and say the (00:32:58) whole thing's a scam right now you take (00:33:00) another cohort of people or another (00:33:03) persona it's an asset right it's the (00:33:06) best asset but money is still broken on (00:33:09) top of that asset (00:33:12) and if you're if it's just an asset to (00:33:14) you and money is still broken then then (00:33:16) that asset has to be centralized faster (00:33:18) and faster and faster and that would (00:33:21) lead to the new kings of the world with (00:33:24) the same model that we've always had. (00:33:27) Then there's a fourth group persona and (00:33:30) those those people who see it as a (00:33:31) protocol and one thing about protocols (00:33:33) is they're winner take all. They don't (00:33:36) come and and and so there is no second (00:33:38) internet and they come in layers and (00:33:40) they add more more and more (00:33:42) functionality and from that viewpoint (00:33:45) you would realize okay this this thing (00:33:48) this thing is new it's never existed (00:33:50) before and if you had a decent open (00:33:53) decentralized secure protocol bounded by (00:33:55) energy (00:33:57) and it stayed decentralized and secure (00:33:59) it wouldn't m all of the other noise (00:34:02) none of it would matter right because it (00:34:05) would be repricing the world over over a (00:34:08) long enough time frame. The only caveat (00:34:10) is it stayed decentralized and secure. (00:34:12) If you understood it was a protocol and (00:34:14) protocols come in layer layers, you (00:34:17) would move your time to the protocol and (00:34:20) you would help build the layers. You (00:34:21) would be constantly on the defense of (00:34:24) what other nonsense is being said over (00:34:26) here, right? To be uh that's going to (00:34:30) try to attack this because it destroys (00:34:32) the entire foundation of everything (00:34:33) we've ever knew. known and replace us (00:34:36) with something better. But you would (00:34:38) move your time and and for that person (00:34:41) too, they would see everything getting (00:34:44) easier. They would see the relationships (00:34:47) that people understood that too and they (00:34:48) would see thousands of people that also (00:34:51) were building on a protocol where it's (00:34:52) not just an asset where it's money where (00:34:55) and they would start transacting in it. (00:34:57) If you just take each of those four (00:34:59) personas, (00:35:00) each one would be true to every person, (00:35:04) right? If you tried to convince, if I (00:35:06) tried to convince somebody right now (00:35:08) that my version is true as a protocol (00:35:10) and their version is they still believe (00:35:12) in institutions and money, good luck, (00:35:16) right? But I can tell you that in my (00:35:19) world and what I'm seeing and the um how (00:35:22) fast this is exploding, how fast it's (00:35:24) becoming money around the world. Um how (00:35:28) it's and it's removing this power, how (00:35:30) much risk it faces too because this (00:35:32) power wants to stop it. But you can (00:35:35) actually just move your time. It's it's (00:35:37) funny that point on time as well because (00:35:41) I think it's easy to look at Bitcoin (00:35:42) from the outside and think, "Oh, that's (00:35:44) you you got in early, you got lucky. (00:35:46) It's they they they value it based on on (00:35:49) the money itself, but what they miss is (00:35:51) the time and how it allows you to make (00:35:53) better decisions with how you use your (00:35:55) time. (00:35:56) >> It's it (00:35:59) free market is deflation. (00:36:00) >> Yes. (00:36:02) >> Um we have exponential productivity (00:36:04) gains. (00:36:05) >> Yes. Meaning a system that can't be (00:36:08) cheated will drive those exponential (00:36:10) productivity gains to you and everybody (00:36:12) in that network then and forever forever (00:36:17) as long as it stays decentralized and (00:36:18) secure and you have so people are inside (00:36:22) the jail cell right yelling at their (00:36:24) captors giving more strength giving more (00:36:27) of their energy that's stolen from them (00:36:29) for the same people (00:36:31) >> and they can just move. So those (00:36:32) exponential gains are being transferred (00:36:34) to those who are (00:36:36) >> part of a network on Bitcoin. (00:36:37) >> Part of a network on Bitcoin (00:36:38) >> and those and those people are not just (00:36:40) holding it. Those people are spending (00:36:42) it. They're driving circular economies (00:36:45) that this is what's happening in El (00:36:46) Salvador. This is what's happening in (00:36:48) many regions around the world that you (00:36:50) visited. I visited. It's early still. (00:36:52) It's so early still. Um, if if most of (00:36:56) the people on on your podcast haven't (00:36:59) heard this and they think they know (00:37:02) about what money looks like and they've (00:37:04) never asked themselves, what is money? (00:37:06) Imagine how early we are. I want to talk (00:37:10) to you about one of my sponsors, Incogn. (00:37:12) And that means we're going to talk about (00:37:14) the weird world of spam. And I don't (00:37:16) just mean those spam emails that you get (00:37:18) day after day from companies you never (00:37:20) heard of and companies you've never (00:37:22) signed up to. I'm also talking about (00:37:24) those spam phone calls you get from (00:37:25) those people who seem to know a little (00:37:27) bit too much about you trying to get (00:37:28) your bank details. It's all a bit (00:37:30) creepy. Right now, this all comes from (00:37:33) the world of data brokerage. There are (00:37:35) companies out there collecting your (00:37:37) data, building profiles, and sending (00:37:39) that data to anyone who wants it. Which (00:37:41) is why when one of those scammers phones (00:37:43) you up, they seem to know everything (00:37:45) about you. Now, I've tried I've tried (00:37:47) myself to get off these lists. Try to (00:37:49) get off the phone list. Try to get off (00:37:51) the email list. I unsubscribe from every (00:37:53) one of these emails that comes in. But (00:37:54) this game of whack-a-ole, it just never (00:37:56) ends. And so this is where Incogn comes (00:37:59) in. They do all the hard work for you. (00:38:01) They reach out to these companies and (00:38:03) they will get you legally removed from (00:38:05) these lists. And I know because last (00:38:06) time they sponsored my show, I signed up (00:38:08) and I didn't take the free option that (00:38:10) they offered me. Wanted to pay for it. I (00:38:12) wanted to see if you get value for (00:38:14) money. And they removed me from 79 data (00:38:17) broker lists. And so I've stayed on. (00:38:19) I've stayed a subscriber. and I have (00:38:20) seen a massive decrease in the number of (00:38:23) emails and phone calls I've been (00:38:24) getting. So, it's a great service. I (00:38:26) recommend you check it out. If you're (00:38:27) sick of this like I was, please head (00:38:29) over to incogn.com/peter (00:38:32) and sign up. If you use the code peter, (00:38:34) you will get a lovely 60% discount. So, (00:38:36) that's incogn.com/peter. (00:38:56) And with the exponential gains we're (00:38:58) going to be getting from (00:39:00) AI which is coming now. I mean I've seen (00:39:02) I mean you must have seen everything (00:39:03) that's happened with the SAS companies (00:39:05) over the last few weeks. It almost feels (00:39:07) like the last couple of weeks we've seen (00:39:08) some kind of acceleration. So do do you (00:39:12) know that even so if people went to my (00:39:14) Twitter I haven't been on Twitter for (00:39:16) >> I know what you do with your Twitter. (00:39:17) >> Yeah. You saw what I did. (00:39:19) >> Yeah. (00:39:19) >> Yeah. Okay. (00:39:19) >> Jeff B. (00:39:20) >> Yeah. Exactly. So I I trained an AI (00:39:22) agent that on all my content took me (00:39:25) less than a day on all my content. A (00:39:27) thousand thousand podcasts, my book, (00:39:30) whole bunch of content that I I wrote (00:39:32) and I trade an agent and just that agent (00:39:35) is on Twitter. But if for people who (00:39:38) want to say see what that looks like, (00:39:40) read the post on why I did it because I (00:39:45) don't think people realize that their (00:39:46) time is inside these systems. Um, and (00:39:49) they're fighting and yelling with just (00:39:52) bots, Russian troll farms, this farm, (00:39:55) this farm. And each person sees (00:39:57) themselves through this thing and (00:39:58) they're fighting more and more within (00:39:59) this system that's extracting their time (00:40:01) and energy. And so I I did it as a as (00:40:05) and I wrote why and I wrote why on my my (00:40:08) uh my website and and I'm on Noster on (00:40:12) some a social network built on top of (00:40:14) Bitcoin that I'm just spending time with (00:40:17) people I love doing the things I love. (00:40:19) Well, people are arguing with my bot, (00:40:22) right? And it's trending most days, (00:40:24) right? It's (00:40:26) >> But it's funny because you you know I (00:40:28) own a bar. (00:40:28) >> Yeah. (00:40:29) >> I sold it. (00:40:30) >> Oh wow. And that the reason I sold it is (00:40:32) because (00:40:34) operating that bar I have to do it from (00:40:37) the old system. I cannot do it from the (00:40:39) new system. If enough people came and (00:40:41) spent Bitcoin in there, maybe I could. (00:40:43) And we we do have some Bitcoin. People (00:40:45) have but not enough, (00:40:47) >> right? And so in that system I am (00:40:49) fighting inflatory cost rises (00:40:53) uh raises in uh um minimum wage (00:40:56) >> regulations (00:40:57) >> regulation changes the cost of living (00:40:59) crisis mean people are going out it's (00:41:01) I'm I'm trying to push water uphill to (00:41:03) keep that thing going (00:41:04) >> and in doing that it's taking my time (00:41:07) and I'm not increasing any there's no (00:41:10) like gains in prosperity or wealth for (00:41:11) me and I and I you know about 3 4 months (00:41:16) ago I went why am not doing this. (00:41:18) >> Yeah. And so you're a rational actor and (00:41:20) so what think think about this from a a (00:41:23) rational actor in in the free market (00:41:25) will do the best things to provide value (00:41:27) but if they can't they fail or they (00:41:29) close up and they because they couldn't (00:41:31) provide enough value right and and so if (00:41:33) if government takes more and more and (00:41:35) more (00:41:36) >> Mhm. Then then what the businesses do is (00:41:39) they automate faster, right? Because if (00:41:42) they don't automate faster to make (00:41:44) prices uh come down come down, then us (00:41:47) as users won't use the service or the (00:41:50) bar or anything else. So now you have (00:41:52) this conflict that everything turns into (00:41:54) central government everything. and and (00:41:57) and that central government and and the (00:41:59) manipulation around regulation and and (00:42:02) who is who fa so so I I don't think most (00:42:06) people would know this on your show but (00:42:09) regulation favors a monopoly (00:42:12) right there can't be a monopoly in a (00:42:14) free market because the margin created (00:42:17) creates the opportunity for people to (00:42:19) attack the margin and create more value (00:42:21) so so monopolies want regulation (00:42:24) >> yes they pretend they don't But that's (00:42:27) why that's why it's one big club and (00:42:28) you're not in it. (00:42:30) >> What's his name? George. What's the (00:42:32) comedian who says that? (00:42:33) >> George Carlin. (00:42:34) >> George Carlin. Yes. One big club and (00:42:36) you're not in it. (00:42:37) >> But the Bitcoin club is a small club and (00:42:39) you can be in that. (00:42:40) >> You can be So you can be in one big (00:42:42) club, one ever growing club that's going (00:42:44) to move to 8 billion people on this (00:42:45) planet. (00:42:46) >> So So what is the So what is the (00:42:49) intrinsic link then for you between AI (00:42:52) and Bitcoin? Are they is this is this a (00:42:55) a marriage? (00:42:56) >> Well, so so (00:42:59) how I look at it is just AI is just an (00:43:01) extension of productivity that was (00:43:04) naturally like you go back to that paper (00:43:06) folding. AI has been on the exact same (00:43:08) trend for 75 years. It's just when the (00:43:13) first fold felt and everybody the (00:43:15) thought thought that if you fold that (00:43:17) piece of paper once it'll feel like (00:43:18) nothing. If you fold it twice it'll feel (00:43:20) like nothing. And so there's this (00:43:22) overhype and now we're in the bigger (00:43:24) folds. And so AI technology broadly, (00:43:29) our innovation comes from standing on (00:43:32) the shoulders of great people who went (00:43:33) before us and error correcting. And (00:43:36) we're now error correcting at a rate (00:43:38) that is so fast. And that's going to (00:43:40) lead to faster and faster an exponential (00:43:44) explosion of error correcting. And then (00:43:46) the AI are going to merge with robots. (00:43:48) And the robots are going to compete with (00:43:50) robots and that's going to provide (00:43:52) faster and faster faster and faster. (00:43:54) There's going to be things along the (00:43:56) way. You'll hear people say, "Don't (00:43:58) worry, we're going to tax the robots." (00:44:01) Right? You laugh, but wait till you hear (00:44:04) it because you're going to hear people (00:44:05) you're going to hear Elon Musk say, (00:44:06) "Don't worry, we're going to we're going (00:44:07) to give you universal high basic (00:44:09) income." Where does that come from? It (00:44:12) comes from the monopoly created by (00:44:15) money. (00:44:16) Where does a universal high basic income (00:44:18) come from? Because the natural state is (00:44:20) you don't need the money because prices (00:44:22) keep falling forever. But you have to (00:44:24) have something that can't be (00:44:26) manipulated. You have to have Bitcoin to (00:44:28) allow you to see that. But he's also (00:44:30) talked about the age of abundance where (00:44:33) he thinks money, we won't need money. (00:44:35) And I struggle with that concept because (00:44:37) money is a measuring stick. So at some (00:44:40) point down (00:44:42) 100 years from now, I would say we will (00:44:46) still probably need something (00:44:48) energybacked, right? The Bitcoin that (00:44:51) resolves that too. But (00:44:55) um you sure won't need very much, right? (00:44:59) That abundance will flow to you, right? (00:45:01) But you the energy prices will follow (00:45:03) that trend. All prices will follow that (00:45:05) that trend. Actually, if you measure in (00:45:06) Bitcoin over any long enough time period (00:45:08) and you measure energy prices in (00:45:10) Bitcoin, if you measure house prices in (00:45:12) Bitcoin, if you measure anything in (00:45:13) Bitcoin, you'll see the trend perfectly (00:45:15) clear. (00:45:17) >> So, but is AI creating a an accelerated (00:45:22) um imperative to understand and adopt (00:45:25) Bitcoin? (00:45:25) >> Both sides. Yeah. Both both sides. It's (00:45:28) creating accelerated insolveny of the (00:45:31) debt and and more not just insolveny of (00:45:34) the debt, but an awareness that the debt (00:45:37) was insolvent a long time ago and now (00:45:39) it's just blatant lies. (00:45:42) >> Yeah. (00:45:42) >> Right. And and blatant control now it (00:45:45) needs surveillance. So why why it (00:45:47) doesn't feel like a democracy anymore? (00:45:49) And it did feel like a democracy. Ask (00:45:51) yourself this. It if you have a vote in (00:45:55) a democracy, you're a liberal democracy. (00:45:58) But you don't have a vote in your money (00:46:00) that's stolen from you and it's it's way (00:46:03) more than the taxes. (00:46:05) Then do you does your vote matter at (00:46:07) all? All your I keep the the reference I (00:46:11) keep pointing to is that all you're (00:46:14) voting for now is the pace of change and (00:46:15) who it's pointed at? (00:46:16) >> Well, you're who gets to who gets to sit (00:46:19) on top of the broken money. (00:46:20) >> Yeah, (00:46:21) >> that's what you're voting for. You're (00:46:22) not voting for change. (00:46:24) voting for your side gets more of the (00:46:26) broken money than the other side. (00:46:27) >> Yeah. And more a socialist view or a (00:46:29) more fascist view. (00:46:31) >> Um so (00:46:34) if people don't (00:46:37) spend the time and go and understand (00:46:38) Bitcoin and choose to join that system, (00:46:40) they're going to get increasingly (00:46:43) >> mad squeeze go to and it depends where (00:46:46) they are. If you're if you're at the top (00:46:49) of that system, you're going to gain (00:46:52) more and more control. You can see in (00:46:54) Elon Musk, some people celebrate him and (00:46:56) he's gaining more and more control out (00:46:58) of essentially the techn the technology (00:47:02) today own the means of production and (00:47:05) the means of production um are the (00:47:07) things you use. And so why I created (00:47:09) that AI pot and I've been off Twitter (00:47:11) for a long time because the means of (00:47:12) production is farming me inside a system (00:47:17) to to to essentially take my voice (00:47:20) thinking it matters. (00:47:23) That's the means of production in the (00:47:24) other system. So now you now you have a (00:47:26) banking system and a technocrat system (00:47:30) both vying for control (00:47:32) of 8 billion mines on planet going (00:47:35) through that system. (00:47:37) So, so if we had, I don't know, if we (00:47:41) had a potential leader for the UK right (00:47:44) now, somebody who could potentially (00:47:47) win an election and you wanted to course (00:47:50) correct them. So, I know you think you (00:47:53) need to operate in this whole system. (00:47:56) You don't. You need to understand this (00:47:57) like what what are the things they would (00:47:59) do? Is it kind of what Bouay's done or (00:48:01) is it Yeah. (00:48:01) >> Yeah. But so (00:48:04) you have to start with (00:48:06) by the way try to if you were in a (00:48:10) debate in a if you were running and you (00:48:13) were in a debate with a bunch of talking (00:48:15) heads (00:48:17) have them try to answer any of these (00:48:19) questions right and realize that a (00:48:21) system problem can't be resolved by the (00:48:23) system problem and you'll hear uh uh (00:48:26) there is no they'll they'll move the (00:48:28) needle they'll move it somewhere else (00:48:30) but how do you solve that problem from (00:48:32) that system. And and so but but if you (00:48:36) realize how true that is, then you (00:48:39) should stop giving it any time, right? (00:48:41) And if you wanted to if you wanted to (00:48:43) run, now that's the problem. (00:48:46) The general awareness of what we're (00:48:49) talking about is so shallow. And why is (00:48:52) it shallow? Because they're looking (00:48:54) through the media of the centralized (00:48:57) system trying to divide them. (00:48:59) So, so you don't they have no idea that (00:49:03) they're stuck in a system and they're (00:49:05) being manipulated in that system. (00:49:08) >> So, even what Malay is doing is (00:49:10) >> still same still same system. (00:49:12) >> Same system. (00:49:13) >> The only the only leader today who (00:49:16) stepped out of it is Belli. (00:49:19) >> That's fascinating. (00:49:21) And so (00:49:23) if somebody is listening and their minds (00:49:25) are being blown right now and they're (00:49:27) thinking, "Yeah, I don't want to be in (00:49:28) this system anymore. I my groceries are (00:49:32) going up. My wages aren't keeping up. (00:49:33) That I can't afford a holiday this year. (00:49:36) I'm increasingly stressed. I'm shouting (00:49:38) at the TV." (00:49:41) The only real advice is you have to step (00:49:44) out of the system. (00:49:44) >> And what I would say is learn first. (00:49:47) There's so many scams out there. where (00:49:49) there's so many charlatans and (00:49:50) everything else. So learn first learn (00:49:52) from people who have the proof of work (00:49:54) whe So Bitcoin people say proof of proof (00:49:57) of work and proof of work you can also (00:50:00) see in people have they been saying the (00:50:01) same thing for a long time what have (00:50:04) they done and what does it look like and (00:50:06) and so you could go look at your (00:50:08) podcasts four years ago. One of the (00:50:10) things that that makes you so easy to (00:50:13) follow is because you're honest with (00:50:16) your changes, (00:50:17) >> right? And people love that about you (00:50:19) and you're just honest and and and (00:50:21) watching that come through and and so (00:50:23) some people aren't right flavor of the (00:50:26) day today. They'll change a hundred (00:50:28) times just to get a new vote and (00:50:31) everything else. And so so in Bitcoin, (00:50:33) watch for people who have been there a (00:50:35) long time showing their proof of work (00:50:37) and and say and and have they been have (00:50:41) has their integrity been the same the (00:50:42) whole time? (00:50:44) >> And read your book, Price of Tomorrow. (00:50:46) definitely go and read Jeff's book. Um I (00:50:49) think some people are are going to be (00:50:52) terrified. (00:50:54) Uh I think some people are going to be (00:50:55) terrified by this, Jeff. Um it's a (00:50:58) frightening situation if things do start (00:51:00) to collapse because people have (00:51:01) mortgages, uh car payments. Um it's very (00:51:05) hard for some people to opt out of (00:51:06) society. I think that creates an (00:51:08) imperative for a political leader to (00:51:11) understand this and explain it to people (00:51:13) and make that decision for the (00:51:15) collective. (00:51:17) >> Yeah. Um and and maybe just just one one (00:51:19) of the things on Bitcoin because it was (00:51:21) it's an open decentralized secure (00:51:23) protocol founded by energy, (00:51:25) you don't have to wait for anybody. You (00:51:28) can just go. So, so a politician that (00:51:32) really wants to create legacy, really (00:51:35) wants to create value for their (00:51:37) citizens, if they want to take the hold (00:51:39) of that mantle and help their citizens (00:51:41) understand faster, I think it's a (00:51:43) incredibly powerful uh platform. (00:51:46) >> Yeah. (00:51:46) >> Um but but any single person, they don't (00:51:50) have to wait. This is one thing you (00:51:51) don't have to wait for. You could start (00:51:53) right now. (00:51:54) >> We've crammed a lot into 50 55 minutes. (00:51:57) uh a chance that you were in London I (00:51:59) couldn't miss up but uh we will follow (00:52:01) this up again. Listen people um go back (00:52:04) I've done four or five interviews with (00:52:05) Jeff maybe more and his book Price of (00:52:07) Tomorrow is amazing. Go and check it out (00:52:09) if you're terrified by this system. Go (00:52:11) and look at Bitcoin. Love you all. Thank (00:52:12) you Jeff. Thanks.