Why Your Kids Won’t Obey & How To Turn It Around | Parenting Expert Ginger Hubbard (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) How can a mom who feels [music] (00:00:01) completely overwhelmed, her house is in (00:00:03) chaos, it's been a very long time, maybe (00:00:05) even years, since her kids really (00:00:07) respected and listened to her, how does (00:00:09) she know where to start? Some people may (00:00:10) [music] have been listening to this and (00:00:11) think, "Oh man, I've just completely (00:00:12) blown it. It's too late. There's no (00:00:14) starting over now." But you absolutely (00:00:16) can [music] just sit your kids down, no (00:00:17) matter how old they are, in an age (00:00:19) appropriate way. Just say something (00:00:21) like, you know, honey, I I have been (00:00:22) reading the Bible and praying, and I (00:00:25) have not been disciplining you the way (00:00:28) that I should. God's word says that I'm (00:00:30) supposed to train [music] you to obey (00:00:31) and to live in wisdom and I've been (00:00:34) allowing you to disobey [music] and live (00:00:36) foolishly. Will you forgive me for that? (00:00:39) So, just apologize, [music] ask (00:00:40) forgiveness and start fresh. You know, (00:00:42) the Bible says that God's mercies are (00:00:44) new every morning and great is his (00:00:46) faithfulness. (00:00:56) [music] (00:01:11) If your house feels more like a hostage (00:01:13) negotiation than a home, and you're (00:01:15) tired of counting to [music] three, (00:01:17) repeating yourself, and wondering when (00:01:18) your kids stop taking you seriously, (00:01:20) this episode is going to change your (00:01:22) life. What [music] if the problem isn't (00:01:24) your child, but the discipline (00:01:25) strategies that we've all been told to (00:01:27) use? Today's conversation is with (00:01:28) bestselling author Ginger Hubard of (00:01:30) Don't Make [music] Me Count to Three and (00:01:32) Wise Words for Moms, also host of the (00:01:34) Parenting with Ginger Hubard podcast. (00:01:36) She goes straight for the heart of why (00:01:37) so [music] many parents feel powerless, (00:01:39) why kids are running the show, and how (00:01:41) well-intentioned methods like bribing, (00:01:43) threatening, and endless reasoning are (00:01:45) actually making things worse. You can (00:01:47) watch this episode on the Real Alex (00:01:48) Clark YouTube channel or Culture (00:01:49) Apothecary on Spotify. If you are (00:01:51) enjoying these episodes on discipline in (00:01:53) the new year, leave a fivestar review. (00:01:55) Please welcome best-selling author (00:01:56) Ginger Hubard to Culture Apothecary. (00:02:02) Why do you believe that children today (00:02:03) are losing respect for their parents? (00:02:06) And what do you think is really (00:02:07) contributing to this massive (00:02:08) disobedience epidemic we're seeing? (00:02:10) Well, Alex, you know as well as I do (00:02:12) that we live in a nation that defies God (00:02:15) at every point, including child (00:02:17) training. And it's not that parents (00:02:19) don't want to raise obedient, respectful (00:02:22) kids. I think every parent wants that. (00:02:24) But a lot of parents, I think, fail to (00:02:26) achieve those results. And I believe (00:02:28) that reason is twofold. One is that in (00:02:30) in an attempt to get their kids to obey, (00:02:32) many parents have adopted faulty child (00:02:35) training methods that fail to reach the (00:02:37) heart. They've kind of developed this (00:02:39) philosophy that if they can get their (00:02:40) children to act right, to behave, that (00:02:43) they're raising them the right way. But (00:02:45) there is far more to parenting than (00:02:47) getting our children to act right. We (00:02:49) have to get them to think right, and to (00:02:51) be motivated out of a love of virtue, a (00:02:54) love for what's right, a love for God, (00:02:57) rather than just a fear of punishment. (00:02:58) So failure to reach the heart is the (00:03:01) first problem. And then the second (00:03:02) problem is that many parents are just (00:03:05) not following the instructions in the (00:03:07) instruction manual. You know, I once (00:03:09) heard Roy Lesen say uh he he compared (00:03:13) God's instructions to parents to an (00:03:15) owner's manual for a new appliance. You (00:03:18) know, think about it. When you buy a new (00:03:19) appliance, the manufacturer provides you (00:03:21) with an instruction manual. Tells you (00:03:23) how to use the appliance and how to keep (00:03:25) it in the best working order. If (00:03:27) customers experience problems with that (00:03:29) product, then they're encouraged to (00:03:31) contact the manufacturer for repairs. (00:03:33) And it's the same with families. The (00:03:35) family was God's idea. He brought it (00:03:38) into being. And in the Bible, he has (00:03:40) given us instructions for how it (00:03:42) operates best. And so, when we (00:03:43) experience problems in raising our kids (00:03:46) and we don't know what to do, we're (00:03:47) encouraged to contact him through (00:03:49) prayer. And he promises in James 15 that (00:03:51) when we ask him for wisdom that he will (00:03:53) give it to us. Do you think a lot of (00:03:55) parents want to be more firm, but (00:03:57) they're just really afraid of coming (00:03:59) across as unloving to their children? (00:04:01) >> I do. But the most loving thing that we (00:04:03) can do is to train our children in the (00:04:06) wisdom and instruction of the Lord. If (00:04:08) we don't do that, that's an injustice to (00:04:10) our children. They need us to be the (00:04:13) guide. They need us to help drive the (00:04:16) foolishness out of their hearts and (00:04:17) replace that foolishness with wisdom. (00:04:19) And so a lot of times we tend to coddle (00:04:22) their emotions, but we're sacrificing (00:04:25) that on the altar of of really training (00:04:28) them to have self-control with their (00:04:30) emotions, to learn how to process their (00:04:32) emotions and to rightly respond to their (00:04:34) emotions in a way that's going to uh (00:04:37) benefit them and people around them (00:04:39) going to benefit them for life. And so (00:04:41) we don't need need to be afraid to bring (00:04:44) our children up in the discipline (00:04:45) instruction of the Lord because if we (00:04:47) don't do that, that's an injustice to (00:04:49) our kids. (00:04:50) >> You emphasize that discipline is about (00:04:52) reaching the heart, not controlling (00:04:53) behavior. Can you explain what that (00:04:55) means biblically? (00:04:56) >> Like I said, we we always want to get (00:04:58) past that outward behavior and help our (00:05:00) children understand that it is the sins (00:05:02) of the heart that drives that outward (00:05:04) behavior. You know, when my kids were (00:05:06) little, I remember being shocked by some (00:05:08) of the things that would come out of (00:05:10) their mouths and some of the things that (00:05:12) they would do. And I would, you know, (00:05:14) ask that question that so many parents (00:05:16) ask today. Why do you act like that? But (00:05:19) after a closer look at the word of God, (00:05:21) I began to realize I was asking the (00:05:23) wrong question. In Romans, it says that (00:05:26) all have sinned and fall short of the (00:05:28) glory of God. And in Matthew 12:34, (00:05:30) Jesus said, "For the mouth speaks what (00:05:33) the heart is full of." In other words, (00:05:36) there's merit to that old saying, (00:05:37) "What's down in the well comes up in the (00:05:40) bucket." Our sin does not begin with our (00:05:43) mouths or our actions. It begins with (00:05:45) our hearts. And it starts a whole lot (00:05:47) sooner than we might think. Uh King (00:05:49) David proclaimed, "Surely I was sinful (00:05:51) at birth, sinful from the time my mother (00:05:53) conceived me." And so when parents (00:05:55) really just begin to grasp just the (00:05:57) origin of sin and the total depravity of (00:06:00) the human nature in general, we no (00:06:02) longer have to question why our children (00:06:05) sin. So I began to learn instead of (00:06:08) saying why does my child sin? I would (00:06:11) ask when my child sins, how might I (00:06:14) point him to the fact that he is a (00:06:16) sinner in need of a savior just like I (00:06:18) am. How can I really help him understand (00:06:21) and live in the transformational power (00:06:23) of Christ? So that is why we want to get (00:06:26) past that outward behavior and help our (00:06:28) children recognize what is going on in (00:06:31) their hearts because when they recognize (00:06:33) and take ownership for the sin that's in (00:06:35) their own heart, that's the first step (00:06:37) to helping them recognize their need for (00:06:39) Christ. I think one important thing (00:06:42) about you which I think is important for (00:06:44) the audience to know is that you have (00:06:45) multiple grown children late 20s early (00:06:48) 30s you know when it comes to giving (00:06:50) parenting advice I think that that's (00:06:51) important because (00:06:53) >> one of the competing parenting (00:06:56) philosophies that you're seeing even in (00:06:58) the Christian parenting space is this (00:06:59) gentle parenting. Now they argue there's (00:07:02) a difference between permissive (00:07:03) parenting and gentle parenting. It's (00:07:04) different. I I don't think it is. But um (00:07:07) a lot of those parents who promote those (00:07:10) ideologies, I think have kids that are (00:07:13) not even in double digits yet, (00:07:15) >> right? (00:07:15) >> That's something I've noticed. So I I (00:07:17) love hearing from people that have (00:07:20) wisdom, that have successfully reared, (00:07:23) you know, now adult children. So I just (00:07:25) think that's important to know about (00:07:26) you. What is your opinion on this gentle (00:07:29) parenting stuff that's been popping up (00:07:31) all over the the Christian uh parenting (00:07:33) space? I think it's sad because the kids (00:07:35) that I see that I have personally been (00:07:38) around that are being parented with (00:07:40) parents who are using this gentle (00:07:42) parenting philosophy, they're not happy (00:07:44) kids. They're miserable. They're living (00:07:46) their lives with no self-control. (00:07:48) They're never satisfied. They're used to (00:07:50) getting their way. And when they don't (00:07:51) get their way, they're having complete (00:07:53) meltdowns. And that's sad because they (00:07:55) they're not enjoying life. They're some (00:07:58) of the most unhappy kids I've ever been (00:08:00) around. kids that are trained in (00:08:02) self-control and obedience and to to (00:08:05) honor the Lord, they're happy kids. And (00:08:08) so I I just I just think when you (00:08:10) compare children who are who are being (00:08:12) raised in the wisdom and discipline and (00:08:13) instruction of the Lord, they're happy, (00:08:16) joyful kids that are enjoying life and (00:08:19) and people around them are are getting (00:08:21) the blessing of enjoying them, too. And (00:08:23) so I just think it's an injustice when (00:08:25) we don't obey the Lord's commands to (00:08:28) train our children and bring them up in (00:08:30) the wisdom and instruction of the Lord (00:08:32) and instead just letting them live (00:08:34) however they want to live. That's just (00:08:36) not it's not a blessing to kids and it's (00:08:39) not a blessing to others and it doesn't (00:08:40) glorify God. (00:08:41) >> How can parents start to view (00:08:42) misbehavior as an opportunity and not an (00:08:45) interruption? Anytime our children mess (00:08:47) up and blow it, we have two options. We (00:08:50) can either be frustrated and think, (00:08:52) well, you know, I've got to take time to (00:08:54) do this and to train them, or we can (00:08:56) view it as a precious opportunity to (00:08:59) train them in righteousness. The Bible (00:09:01) says that parents are to train their (00:09:02) children in righteousness. And so when (00:09:04) we view those opportunities, every time (00:09:06) our children misbehave, when we look at (00:09:08) that as this is a precious opportunity (00:09:11) to point them to the truths and the (00:09:13) wisdom of God's word, then we are going (00:09:16) to be far more righteous in our (00:09:18) training. We're going to be eager and (00:09:20) joyful all the time for those (00:09:22) opportunities rather than angry and (00:09:24) frustrated. Now, I know better than (00:09:25) anyone that's so much easier said than (00:09:27) done when they do those behaviors that (00:09:29) that are that are really getting under (00:09:31) our skin. It's hard to view it like (00:09:33) that. But when we look at that as this (00:09:35) is a a fantastic opportunity to point (00:09:37) them to the fact that they are sinners (00:09:40) just like I am in need of a savior. And (00:09:42) here is this wisdom for from God's word. (00:09:45) And and when we pray and ask him to help (00:09:47) us, the Holy Spirit helps us to live in (00:09:50) ways that honor him and that bring him (00:09:52) the glory he deserves. And so we want to (00:09:54) view them as as those precious (00:09:56) opportunities, not as frustrating (00:09:58) moments of inconvenience when they (00:10:00) misbehave. (00:10:00) >> How do you explain the difference (00:10:02) between reactive parenting and proactive (00:10:05) parenting? by taking those moments to (00:10:08) not just be frustrated and saying, you (00:10:11) know, you're doing this, you're getting (00:10:12) on my nerves. I'm busy doing something (00:10:13) else. You just need to go to your room. (00:10:16) That is reactive parenting. Proactive (00:10:18) parenting is, okay, let's talk through (00:10:21) this. Let's get past this outward (00:10:23) behavior that you're demonstrating. (00:10:25) Let's talk about what is at the root of (00:10:27) that outward behavior. What is going on (00:10:29) in your heart? And then we can look to (00:10:31) scripture because God is not just (00:10:33) concerned with our outward behavior. He (00:10:35) is always concerned with the heart. So, (00:10:38) we want to learn how to do that, how to (00:10:39) get past that outward behavior, help our (00:10:41) children recognize what is going on in (00:10:43) their hearts. And then we're able to (00:10:44) address it from a Christc centered (00:10:47) perspective because the Bible really is (00:10:50) the ultimate instruction manual to (00:10:52) parents that gives us everything we need (00:10:53) to know for raising our kids in the ways (00:10:56) of the Lord. But we have to know how to (00:10:58) get past that outward behavior. Like (00:10:59) whining, for example. You know, a lot of (00:11:02) times parents will say, "Well, I don't I (00:11:03) don't see whining in the Bible. So, how (00:11:05) do I get past that outward behavior and (00:11:07) where do I go in scripture to to to look (00:11:10) up how to address this from a biblical (00:11:12) perspective with my kids?" Well, I had a (00:11:14) kid that whined and so I can definitely (00:11:16) relate to that. That's one that can (00:11:18) really get under our skin. One of those, (00:11:19) you know, just go to your room. I don't (00:11:20) want to hear this anymore. But being (00:11:22) intentional means, how can we talk about (00:11:24) this from a heart- oriented perspective? (00:11:26) So my daughter Alex, she gives me (00:11:28) permission to share stuff about her and (00:11:31) my son does too, just for the benefit of (00:11:33) giving personal examples. So they're so (00:11:35) sweet to let me. They say it makes them (00:11:36) famous even when they're telling them (00:11:38) all the bad things, they're like, "Oh, (00:11:39) we we still like for you to talk about (00:11:41) us. It makes us famous." But so Alex (00:11:43) really struggled with whining. And so (00:11:44) let's just let's just do like a common (00:11:46) example. Let's say that Alex comes into (00:11:48) the kitchen and instead of asking for a (00:11:50) cup of juice in a normal tone of voice, (00:11:52) she whines for it. And so I want to (00:11:55) address that from a biblical (00:11:56) perspective. So I might address it from (00:11:58) the issue of self-control. I might say, (00:11:59) "Honey, are you asking for juice with (00:12:02) self-control?" No, sweetie, you're not. (00:12:05) God says that we are to have (00:12:07) self-control, even with our voices. (00:12:10) >> And so what I'm going to do, because I (00:12:12) love you so much, I want to help you get (00:12:14) that self-control. So what I did for (00:12:15) that is I had this cute little um (00:12:18) kitchen timer. They you can get them on (00:12:20) Amazon like ladybugs and little mice and (00:12:23) stuff like that. They're so cute. So we (00:12:25) I let her help pick one out to make it (00:12:27) fun. And I said, "So what I'm going to (00:12:28) do is I'm going to set this timer for 2 (00:12:30) minutes or if she was three years old, (00:12:32) three minutes." I would kind of go with (00:12:33) however many minutes their age is. So (00:12:35) I'm going to set the timer for three (00:12:36) minutes. And when that timer goes off, (00:12:38) then you can come back and ask for juice (00:12:40) the right way with your self-controlled (00:12:43) voice. And so see, I didn't preach a (00:12:45) sermon to her. I didn't use words that (00:12:46) she couldn't understand. God's word says (00:12:49) we're to have self-control. So, I just (00:12:51) reproved her in a way that she could (00:12:53) comprehend. And then most important, (00:12:55) Alex, and this is an area where we a lot (00:12:57) of times um fall short, I have her come (00:12:59) back. I give her the opportunity to ask (00:13:01) for juice the right way with her (00:13:03) self-controlled voice. And you know, (00:13:05) it's the same with older kids. Whining, (00:13:07) my goodness, it seems like whining today (00:13:10) has become an absolute epidemic in (00:13:13) America. Uh kids don't just whine when (00:13:15) they want something now. They whine just (00:13:17) as a general means of communicating. And (00:13:20) so even like say that you're in the (00:13:22) minivan and your child is strapped in (00:13:24) the back seat and they're talking to (00:13:26) you, not asking for something (00:13:27) necessarily, but just talking to you in (00:13:29) a whiny voice. Same sort of thing. (00:13:31) Honey, are you talking with your (00:13:32) self-controlled voice? No, you're not. (00:13:35) God wants you to have self-control even (00:13:37) with your voice. So, let's set that (00:13:38) timer. If you don't have a timer, now we (00:13:40) have the luxury of using our cell (00:13:41) phones, right? Set the timer on your (00:13:42) cell phone. let them watch it countdown (00:13:45) and then come back and have that (00:13:46) conversation. And I know the first (00:13:48) question probably a lot of people that (00:13:50) are that are listening and watching (00:13:51) right now would say is, "Yeah, well that (00:13:53) might work for your kid, but you don't (00:13:54) know my kid. My kid is stubborn. My kid (00:13:56) wouldn't come back and ask for juice the (00:13:58) right way. My kid wouldn't come back and (00:14:00) have that conversation from the back (00:14:01) seat." And so, well, natural (00:14:03) consequences. (00:14:05) >> They don't get that cup of juice. They (00:14:07) don't get to have that conversation with (00:14:08) mom and dad until they're willing to (00:14:11) communicate with self-control. (00:14:12) >> I think it's really a blessing that (00:14:14) basically all of my best friends have (00:14:16) like four or more kids each at this (00:14:18) point. And [clears throat] so I'm (00:14:20) learning a lot from them even though I'm (00:14:22) not a parent yet. Just, you know, dos (00:14:23) and don'ts and what works and what (00:14:25) doesn't. And so one of them was invited (00:14:26) to something recently. Um their family, (00:14:28) their kids were invited to another (00:14:30) family's house with kids. And this other (00:14:32) family, they had a child that I don't (00:14:34) know, (00:14:34) >> she had, you know, preconceived ideas of (00:14:37) like how things were going to go and (00:14:38) then it didn't go that way. And so, she (00:14:39) was just really throwing a fit at this (00:14:41) party in front of everybody because (00:14:43) things weren't going the way she wanted. (00:14:44) >> And so, I asked my friend about that. I (00:14:46) was like, "So, what do you think about (00:14:47) that? Like, what do you think that (00:14:48) parent did wrong?" Um, because I'm like (00:14:50) thinking of myself and like, "What would (00:14:51) I do in that situation if that was my (00:14:53) kid?" And she said, "Well, (00:14:54) >> I just think that there wasn't enough (00:14:56) proactive parenting going on." So before (00:14:58) the party happened, she should have sat (00:15:01) her kids down and said, "Hey, these (00:15:03) people are coming over. This is what's (00:15:05) going on. You know, we're we are going (00:15:07) to try to do this, but things can (00:15:09) change." And so if they change, you (00:15:11) know, what's our attitude going to be if (00:15:12) things change and these kids don't want (00:15:13) to play this game or whatever. Um and I (00:15:16) just thought that was interesting, you (00:15:18) know, in terms of the proactive versus (00:15:20) reactive parenting. And I said, "So what (00:15:21) would be reactive?" And and she said, (00:15:23) "Well, you know, her kid is freaking (00:15:25) out." And then she's just responding (00:15:26) like, "Hey, like calm down. You know, (00:15:29) you need to go in another room." Like (00:15:30) that's reactive. Like you didn't prepare (00:15:31) for the situation. And she said, "Same (00:15:33) with like before you go into a grocery (00:15:35) store with your kids." It's, "Hey, (00:15:37) >> we're not putting things in the cart. (00:15:39) We're getting in and out. If we're good, (00:15:40) maybe I'll allow you to have a treat at (00:15:42) the end, but we're not doing this. We (00:15:44) are doing this. We're going here. We're (00:15:45) in and out." You know, setting (00:15:46) expectations. Do you think that that can (00:15:48) be helpful? (00:15:49) >> Absolutely. I think that is brilliant to (00:15:51) to talk with them ahead of time. you're (00:15:53) preparing them that these things could (00:15:54) happen and and what is going to be the (00:15:56) right way to respond to this. So, we're (00:15:58) going into the grocery store and you are (00:16:00) going to be, if they're young enough, (00:16:01) sitting in the cart. Are you allowed? Is (00:16:03) it okay for you to grab things off the (00:16:05) shelves? No, it's not. What would that (00:16:07) be if you take something off the shelf? (00:16:09) That would be disobeying. And so, making (00:16:12) those clear expectations, that also (00:16:14) helps us to know how to respond. Because (00:16:17) if you set clear expectations, they (00:16:19) understand those expectations, but then (00:16:22) they choose to disobey. They're choosing (00:16:25) a consequence. And so it's it's a cut (00:16:27) and dry. This was clear. I gave you (00:16:29) clear instructions. You understood and (00:16:31) you have chosen to disobey. And now (00:16:32) scripture says that when you choose to (00:16:34) disobey, I don't have a choice. I have (00:16:36) to give you a consequence because I love (00:16:39) you too much to allow you to disobey. (00:16:46) You know, I will not gatekeep anything (00:16:47) that makes my mornings easier and (00:16:49) actually tastes good. That's why I've (00:16:50) been putting the Taylor Dicks Wellness (00:16:52) Strawberries and Cream protein in my (00:16:53) smoothie almost every single day for the (00:16:55) last year. And I swear it is elite. Like (00:16:57) if strawberry milk and a clean (00:16:58) ingredient list had a super hot baby. 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(00:17:36) One thing no one talks about enough in (00:17:37) winter is your light diet. Just like (00:17:40) food, your body actually depends on (00:17:41) consistent, healthy light exposure to (00:17:43) function well. And when sunlight (00:17:44) disappears for months, everything from (00:17:46) your energy to your sleep to your mood (00:17:48) can take a hit. That's why red and near (00:17:49) your infrared light therapy has become a (00:17:51) non-negotiable for me, especially in the (00:17:53) winter, and why I use JWV. Red and near (00:17:57) infrared light have been studied for (00:17:58) their ability to support cellular (00:18:00) energy, which impacts things like (00:18:01) inflammation, muscle recovery, skin (00:18:03) health, sleep quality, and daily energy (00:18:05) levels. When your cells function better, (00:18:07) everything else follows. What really (00:18:09) matters to me is why JWV works. JWV uses (00:18:12) clinically proven wavelengths, delivers (00:18:14) a safe, effective dose of light, and (00:18:16) offers true medical grade panels that (00:18:18) are independently safety tested and (00:18:19) certified. There are a lot of fake red (00:18:21) light devices out there using untested (00:18:23) wavelengths. JWV is the real deal. I (00:18:25) personally use JV as part of my morning (00:18:27) routine. 10 minutes while I'm easing (00:18:29) into the day, and I genuinely feel the (00:18:30) difference when I stay consistent, which (00:18:32) is really the key there. Better energy, (00:18:34) better recovery, better sleep. Juv also (00:18:37) makes it easy. Whether you want a (00:18:38) targeted device or a full body setup, it (00:18:40) fits into real life. I've got mine in my (00:18:42) closet. I pull it out. I sit in my (00:18:43) bathroom. I like to do it in a room that (00:18:45) doesn't have windows uh cuz I want it to (00:18:47) be as dark as possible. And I just flip (00:18:48) the red light on. If you want to try JW (00:18:50) for yourself, go to juv.com. That's (00:18:53) juve.com/alex. (00:18:55) jv j ov.com/alex. (00:18:58) Some exclusions may apply. (00:19:02) You've talked about common mistakes that (00:19:04) parents are making today when it comes (00:19:06) to discipline. uh bribing, threatening, (00:19:09) counting to three, repeating (00:19:11) instructions. Can you talk about that? (00:19:13) >> Yeah. So, you actually just mentioned (00:19:15) one right there, which would be bribing. (00:19:17) I actually saw this mom in Walmart and (00:19:20) her kid was maybe I don't know, he (00:19:22) looked like he was maybe two and a half (00:19:23) or three years old and he was kind of, (00:19:25) you know, grabbing stuff off the shelves (00:19:27) and she told him, he had gotten away (00:19:28) from her and she told him to come to her (00:19:31) and instead of obeying, he took off (00:19:33) running in the other direction. And so (00:19:35) in desperation, this mom yells down the (00:19:38) aisle of Walmart, "Come to mommy and (00:19:41) I'll give you a sucker." And that's (00:19:43) bribing. So immediately this child goes (00:19:46) from hearing impaired Yeah. (00:19:48) >> to exceptional hearing. And he comes (00:19:50) very quickly to mom's side. But you see, (00:19:52) Alex, that's not really training for (00:19:54) obedience. That's rewarding the child (00:19:56) for foolishness, for stubbornness, (00:19:58) [clears throat] for disobedience. giving (00:20:00) them a reward in order to get them to (00:20:02) obey. That encourages them in (00:20:04) selfishness because their motive for (00:20:06) obeying is, yeah, sure, I'll obey for (00:20:09) what I can get. But that's a selfish (00:20:11) motive. Children should be taught to (00:20:13) obey because it's right and because it (00:20:16) pleases God. So, what should she have (00:20:18) done when the kid is running away and (00:20:19) not listening when she's saying to come (00:20:20) to her, (00:20:21) >> right? So, or in the grocery store, same (00:20:23) thing. You know, you tell them you're (00:20:24) they're sitting in the cart. You've (00:20:25) already gone through this. You're not (00:20:26) allowed to grab something off the shelf. (00:20:28) And if they do it anyway, if they have (00:20:31) directly disobeyed, then there needs to (00:20:32) be a consequence. And when they're (00:20:34) little, I tell parents this, like, well, (00:20:36) it's such an inconvenience. I mean, (00:20:37) there I am in the grocery store and I (00:20:38) have this full cart of groceries. Well, (00:20:40) it only took a time or two of me going (00:20:43) up to the cashier and saying, "Hey, (00:20:44) would you mind putting my milk and eggs (00:20:46) back and I'm going to come back just as (00:20:48) soon as I can, but I've got to deal with (00:20:50) something right now." And then we got in (00:20:52) the car, we drove to the back of the (00:20:53) parking lot to where we could deal with (00:20:56) their disobedience in private in a way (00:20:58) that doesn't embarrass or humiliate them (00:21:00) out in public. And then I come back and (00:21:03) then my kids learned very quickly that (00:21:06) my word is my word whether we're in the (00:21:08) grocery store or Walmart or even at (00:21:11) grandma's house. So, it's possible that (00:21:12) a lot of modern parents are putting (00:21:15) convenience over this opportunity given (00:21:19) to parents as God to instill um (00:21:22) righteousness in our children. (00:21:23) >> Yep. And so, a lot of times, especially (00:21:25) when we're out in public, it may seem (00:21:26) more convenient to just ignore or look (00:21:29) over that behavior. But when we do that, (00:21:31) again, we're doing the child an (00:21:33) injustice. It may be inconvenient for (00:21:36) us, but taking the time to train them in (00:21:39) what is right, that's going to be more (00:21:41) beneficial to them. If we neglect (00:21:44) training them just because it's (00:21:47) inconvenient for us, that's going to (00:21:49) cause a lot of problems later on because (00:21:51) then they learn that our word is not our (00:21:53) word when we're out in public. And so, (00:21:55) we have to inconvenience ourselves. And (00:21:57) when we're willing to do that, to take (00:21:58) that and to take that moment and walk (00:22:01) away and train them in what is right, (00:22:04) we're teaching them that our word is our (00:22:06) word. In Matthew, it says, "Simply let (00:22:07) your yes be yes and your no be no." And (00:22:09) so that means all the time that they (00:22:11) need to obey. And so another one is that (00:22:14) I see a lot is threatening. And that one (00:22:16) usually comes um after we have repeated (00:22:19) our instruction several times to no (00:22:20) avail. And so we pull out the big guns. (00:22:23) You know, something like, "Honey, if you (00:22:24) don't uh if you don't start sharing your (00:22:26) toys right now, I'm gonna send them all (00:22:28) off to kids who will share." But this (00:22:30) teaches them that mom doesn't mean what (00:22:32) she says. You know, how many of our (00:22:34) parents in an attempt to get us to (00:22:36) appreciate our toys, talked about the (00:22:37) kids on the other side of the world who (00:22:39) don't have any toys, but how many of our (00:22:42) parents actually followed through with (00:22:44) that threat and and boxed up all of our (00:22:46) toys, taped up, boxed up, and and (00:22:48) shipped them off to Timbuktu? Probably (00:22:50) not too many. And if they did, they're (00:22:52) following through. That's not a threat. (00:22:53) Yeah. (00:22:54) >> And let me just say this, too. You know, (00:22:55) I'm spitting out all of these answers (00:22:57) here, and it may sound like that I (00:22:58) always did everything right, but I (00:23:00) didn't. I wanted to be a good mom. So, I (00:23:02) studied scripture. I read the good (00:23:04) parenting books. I even, uh, wrote a (00:23:06) couple of parenting books, but don't (00:23:07) think for one second that I didn't fall (00:23:09) into some of these things myself (00:23:11) sometimes, uh, like threatening. I I'll (00:23:13) give you one instance comes to mind when (00:23:16) um my kids were little and every Tuesday (00:23:19) night they had the blessing and joy of (00:23:21) spending the night with my parents. They (00:23:23) loved spending the night with Nana and (00:23:24) Papa. So that was a super treat for them (00:23:27) and for my parents. And so it was a (00:23:29) Tuesday afternoon. I homeschooled my (00:23:30) kids. They had just finished doing their (00:23:32) schoolwork and I said, "You guys need to (00:23:34) get your rooms cleaned up." And they (00:23:35) were just not obeying me. They were not (00:23:37) doing what I told them to do. They were (00:23:38) procrastinating. and I was (00:23:39) procrastinating in training them because (00:23:41) I was busy doing something or I don't (00:23:43) know what was going on that day, but I (00:23:44) just wasn't taking the time to train (00:23:46) them the way that I needed to. And so I (00:23:48) kept repeating my instructions and then (00:23:50) what typically comes after that is (00:23:52) throwing out that thread. And so I threw (00:23:53) out the thread. I said, "If you guys (00:23:55) don't hurry up and get these rooms (00:23:57) cleaned up, y'all are not spending the (00:23:59) night with Nana and Papa tonight." (00:24:01) >> But Alex, I knew good and well I wasn't (00:24:03) about to forfeit my night alone with no (00:24:05) kids in order [laughter] to follow (00:24:07) through with that threat. and I didn't. (00:24:09) And another one is counting to three. Oh (00:24:10) my goodness. That's why I titled my (00:24:12) first parenting book, Don't Make Me (00:24:14) Count to Three because that's another (00:24:15) one that we see all around us. We see (00:24:17) these parents say, you know, if you (00:24:19) don't do this, by the time I count to (00:24:21) three, you're going to get it. And then (00:24:23) they start their count. One, the child (00:24:26) doesn't move. Two, the child still (00:24:30) doesn't move. Two and a half, and so it (00:24:33) goes. But the thing is, children will (00:24:34) rise to the standard that the parents (00:24:37) set. If we don't expect our children to (00:24:39) obey until we count to three, they're (00:24:42) probably not going to obey until we (00:24:44) start counting. And so, why not expect (00:24:46) instant obedience? It's so much easier. (00:24:48) It's so much less confusing. It is (00:24:50) definitely more biblical. And you know (00:24:52) what? If my small child is about to step (00:24:54) off the curb into a busy street, I don't (00:24:57) want to have to count to three before (00:24:59) they obey. So training children to (00:25:01) quickly obey, that really should be the (00:25:03) standard. And so we need to be aware of (00:25:05) things like repeating our instructions (00:25:07) two or three times, bribing, (00:25:08) threatening, giving them to the count of (00:25:10) three because those things really draw (00:25:12) us away from teaching our children to (00:25:14) obey the way that God has called them (00:25:16) to. But I think what a lot of parents (00:25:18) listening are probably thinking is, (00:25:20) "Okay, Ginger, but how do I get them to (00:25:23) obey immediately like that?" Especially (00:25:26) if you are somebody who is really (00:25:28) struggling with discipline. Let's say (00:25:29) you've got a three, four, five, (00:25:31) sixyear-old and so you know they're a (00:25:33) little older. This has been going on (00:25:35) this like repeated disobedience. How in (00:25:36) the world now are we going to start (00:25:38) getting them to listen on the first (00:25:40) time? Well, that's where consequences (00:25:42) come into play. And and consequences (00:25:44) definitely have their their place, (00:25:46) especially with younger children. Um (00:25:49) they need to know that there are (00:25:51) consequences for sin. There are (00:25:53) consequences for disobedience. But (00:25:55) there's so much more to discipline than (00:25:57) just consequences. If all we do is (00:26:00) administer consequences, that's all they (00:26:02) learn, that there are consequences for (00:26:03) sin. And yes, that is a great lesson. (00:26:05) But an even greater lesson is helping (00:26:08) them understand that higher calling of (00:26:10) living in ways that bring God the glory (00:26:14) he deserves. But when kids disobey or (00:26:17) when they tattle or when they whine or (00:26:20) when they are disrespectful or when they (00:26:22) don't share, no matter what they're (00:26:24) dealing with, I always encourage three (00:26:27) steps. And I know a lot of people like, (00:26:28) "Well, I don't like these three-step (00:26:29) plans." But it really is a very biblical (00:26:32) three-step plan. And so, what I (00:26:34) encourage regardless of what they're (00:26:36) struggling with is first to ask heart (00:26:39) probing questions. That's step one. And (00:26:41) you know, Alex, if you think about it, (00:26:43) that is the example that Jesus set. (00:26:44) Think about in all the stories in (00:26:46) scripture, when someone did something (00:26:48) wrong, Jesus didn't point his finger in (00:26:50) their face and say, "This is what you (00:26:51) did wrong, and this is what you should (00:26:52) have done instead." (00:26:54) So often Jesus would ask heart probing (00:26:56) questions. And in order for the people (00:26:58) to answer those questions, they had to (00:27:00) evaluate themselves because Jesus, he (00:27:03) was a skilled heart prob. He knew how to (00:27:05) ask those questions in such a way that (00:27:08) the people would have to take their (00:27:09) focus off of the circumstances and (00:27:11) situations going on around them and onto (00:27:15) the sin in their own heart. And so the (00:27:18) first step is heart probing questions. (00:27:20) The second step is what to put off. That (00:27:23) is what does God's word say about that (00:27:26) particular behavior and what it can lead (00:27:28) to if it continues. And then step three (00:27:31) is what to put on. How to replace what (00:27:34) is wrong with what is right in (00:27:36) accordance with God's word because that (00:27:38) is where truth and wisdom is in God's (00:27:40) word. (00:27:40) >> So let's say you know the situation is (00:27:42) hitting sibling hitting another sibling. (00:27:45) >> Can you do those three things in that (00:27:47) scenario? I can, but I can't do it off (00:27:49) the top of my head. I have created this (00:27:51) little wise words for mom's chart (00:27:53) because it's hard to remember all of (00:27:54) these different things and to go to (00:27:56) scripture. So, what I did when my kids (00:27:57) were little, and we'll get to the (00:27:58) hitting. Um, but I would I wrote down (00:28:01) all the things that they struggled with (00:28:03) and and it was usually just two or three (00:28:04) things at one time. They're not going to (00:28:05) struggle with all things, you know, at (00:28:07) the same time. And so, it started with (00:28:09) like two or three behaviors. One was (00:28:10) disobeying because whose kids, you know, (00:28:12) doesn't struggle with disobeying? And (00:28:14) then I I thought through heart probing (00:28:17) questions for that and for tattling and (00:28:19) for not sharing their things like that. (00:28:22) And so I wrote down a couple of heart (00:28:24) probing questions. The heart probing (00:28:26) questions helps to get to the heart of (00:28:27) what is behind that outward behavior (00:28:29) like where we talked about whining, (00:28:30) selfishness. The Bible addresses (00:28:32) selfishness. Now whining can also be an (00:28:34) issue of idolatry. But you know a (00:28:36) four-year-old is kind of hard to explain (00:28:37) what idolatry is. So I just address it (00:28:39) as self-control. But once we know what's (00:28:42) at the heart by looking at those heart (00:28:43) probing questions, um then I went to (00:28:46) scripture and I said, "What does God's (00:28:47) word say to put off? What does it say to (00:28:49) put on?" Because in Ephesians, it says (00:28:51) that we are to put off our old selves (00:28:54) and put on our new selves that's created (00:28:56) to be like God in true righteousness and (00:28:58) holiness. And so I just I I looked all (00:29:01) of those things up ahead of time. That's (00:29:03) being proactive so that I'm ready as (00:29:05) those things um came about. I was I was (00:29:08) I was quick on the draw. And so I had my (00:29:10) little wise words for mom's chart. I (00:29:12) punched a hole in it and I had it (00:29:14) hanging in my kitchen as a quick (00:29:16) reference flip chart to use uh when my (00:29:18) sweet little angels grew horns and I was (00:29:21) at a loss for words. It helped me so (00:29:23) much to have that right at my (00:29:25) fingertips, th those answers, how to how (00:29:27) to get to the heart, what to put off and (00:29:29) what to put on because a lot of times (00:29:31) when I was in the heat of the moment, (00:29:32) you know, maybe I'm upset about (00:29:34) something, maybe I have a lot going on, (00:29:36) maybe I'm busy, maybe I'm, you know, (00:29:38) talking with someone on the phone. Those (00:29:40) are the times that I would find myself (00:29:41) relying on my words and my wisdom (00:29:45) instead of God's word and his wisdom. (00:29:47) And that was never beneficial for me or (00:29:49) my kids. So, I created that little wise (00:29:51) words for moms chart. It had just maybe (00:29:53) five behaviors on it 20 years ago. And (00:29:55) then as I talked to more moms, they're (00:29:57) like, "Well, what about tattling? Well, (00:29:58) what about biting? Well, what about, you (00:30:00) know, all of these different things? (00:30:02) What about hitting?" And so, I kept (00:30:03) adding to it. And now there's 32 (00:30:05) behaviors on that chart. And so, it (00:30:07) helps a lot of moms. A lot of moms refer (00:30:09) to it as their cheat sheet. And this is (00:30:11) free. (00:30:11) >> It's not. I have them available on my (00:30:13) website. It's called Wise Words for (00:30:14) Moms. We just actually recently expanded (00:30:16) it to teachers because so many teachers (00:30:18) in the classroom are like, I really wish (00:30:20) that you would um adapt this and make it (00:30:23) user friendly for the classroom as well. (00:30:25) That way moms and teachers and dads were (00:30:27) all teaching the same things to our (00:30:30) kids. And so a revised expanded edition (00:30:33) just came out a few months ago and one (00:30:35) of the ones that we added was biting at (00:30:37) teach at the request of teachers. Biting (00:30:39) >> cell phone use (00:30:40) >> hitting. Oh, I didn't think about that (00:30:42) one. That would have been good. But (00:30:43) yeah, biting, hitting, um, bullying, uh, (00:30:47) excessive talking, obsessive crushes, (00:30:50) all the things that are dealt with, you (00:30:52) know, (00:30:52) >> obsessive crushes. (00:30:53) >> Guilty. That would be me. [laughter] (00:30:57) >> That's funny. So, yeah. So, I would I (00:30:59) would love to walk through how how that (00:31:01) little cheat sheet is what we all like (00:31:03) to call it. (00:31:04) >> Yeah, let's do that. Okay. So, Alex, did (00:31:05) you mention biting or hitting? (00:31:06) >> Hitting. (00:31:07) >> Okay. Well, I actually have those (00:31:08) combined on the chart. So, step one is (00:31:10) heart probing questions. very simple (00:31:12) because these are little kids that are (00:31:13) doing this and so it needs to be very (00:31:15) simple questions that they can ponder (00:31:17) and answer. So does biting or hitting (00:31:19) show kindness? No, it doesn't. And I (00:31:21) also encourage parents too and teachers (00:31:23) that if the kids don't answer, some of (00:31:25) them say, "Well, they just clam up and (00:31:26) don't answer." Then you have a whole (00:31:28) other issue of disobedience going on. (00:31:30) Well, I encourage just don't get into a (00:31:32) power struggle. Just go ahead and answer (00:31:34) for them. But just simple heart probing (00:31:36) question. Does biting or hitting show (00:31:37) kindness? No, honey, it doesn't. And (00:31:40) then is it loving or hateful to hurt (00:31:43) others? It's hateful to hurt others. And (00:31:45) so just go ahead and answer for them (00:31:46) instead of getting in that power (00:31:47) struggle. That helps them to at least (00:31:50) ponder. Even if they don't answer, (00:31:52) they're answering those questions in (00:31:53) their hearts. And that again is helping (00:31:55) them to recognize the sin in their (00:31:58) heart, which helps them to recognize (00:31:59) their need for Christ. So step two is (00:32:01) what to put off? Hate. (00:32:02) >> Love does not delight in bringing harm (00:32:04) to others. And that's Romans 13:10. And (00:32:08) then what are they to put on? love. Love (00:32:10) brings good to others. Love is gentle, (00:32:13) patient, and kind. And then like from a (00:32:15) a practical standpoint, you can talk (00:32:17) about what did God create um our hands (00:32:20) to do, to hug, to high-five, to to be (00:32:25) gentle and kind, and not to hit and to (00:32:28) bring harm. And so um you can just talk (00:32:30) about it from that perspective. And then (00:32:32) there's so many on here that, you know, (00:32:34) like I said, all kids are not going to (00:32:36) um struggle with at one time. But (00:32:40) obviously disobeying, I'm usually pretty (00:32:41) safe with that one. Every kid is going (00:32:43) to struggle with disobeying. So, you (00:32:45) know, just like the kid that we talked (00:32:46) about earlier that was in Walmart. You (00:32:48) said, "Well, what should that mom have (00:32:49) done (00:32:50) >> when the kid takes off in Walmart and (00:32:52) doesn't come when she calls him?" Well, (00:32:53) very simple questions. Even for a two (00:32:55) and a half, threeyear-old, very simple (00:32:57) heart probing questions. Honey, are you (00:32:58) obeying or are you disobeying? Simple (00:33:02) question. Again, it takes it helps them (00:33:03) to take ownership. Well, I'm I'm (00:33:05) disobeying. If they don't answer, honey, (00:33:07) you disobeyed. Next question, how did (00:33:09) you disobey? If they don't answer, well, (00:33:11) sweetie, I told you to come to me and (00:33:13) you didn't. And that's disobeying. Oh, (00:33:16) one thing I taught my kids that I also (00:33:17) have on the chart when they were really (00:33:18) little is I could ask my kids, "How does (00:33:21) God want you to obey?" And I could hold (00:33:23) up three fingers and they knew to say (00:33:25) all the way right away and with a happy (00:33:28) heart. And that pretty much covers (00:33:30) complete obedience. And so I started (00:33:32) teaching that a very young age. I mean (00:33:34) as soon as they popped out it's like (00:33:36) mama, dada all the way right away with a (00:33:38) happy heart. They can learn that (00:33:39) [laughter] if you just keep on saying (00:33:41) that's how they learn these things is by (00:33:43) teaching it to them. So at a very young (00:33:44) age I taught them that biblical (00:33:46) obedience the way that God wants them to (00:33:48) obey is all the way right away and with (00:33:50) a happy heart. And then for what to put (00:33:53) off for disobeying, obviously we put off (00:33:55) disobedience. And I would say something (00:33:57) like what I have written here. Honey, (00:33:59) when you disobey me, you're disobeying (00:34:01) God and it will not go well with you. (00:34:04) And see that scripture, it says that it (00:34:05) does not go well for children when they (00:34:07) live in disobedience. And one thing, (00:34:09) there was always a consequence for (00:34:11) direct disobedience with my kids in our (00:34:14) home, especially when they were um, you (00:34:16) know, really learning what does it mean (00:34:18) to obey? And so before I administered a (00:34:20) consequence for direct disobedience, I (00:34:22) would always say, "I love you too much (00:34:25) to allow you to disobey." So that way (00:34:28) they knew that it was love that (00:34:29) motivated me to discipline them because (00:34:32) I do. I love my kids too much to allow (00:34:34) them to live their lives in foolish (00:34:36) ways. So put off disobedience. What are (00:34:39) they to put on? Obedience. And so I (00:34:41) would say Colossians 3:20, it says that (00:34:43) children are to obey their parents in (00:34:46) everything because this is right. And (00:34:48) so, see, this doesn't take that long. We (00:34:50) talked about how it can be an (00:34:51) inconvenience, you know, to to take time (00:34:54) to train our kids, but when we have it (00:34:56) right in front of us, this just helped (00:34:57) me so much to be more consistent in (00:34:59) moments where I may not have been (00:35:01) consistent. I mean, that took for (00:35:02) disobeying, that took what, less than a (00:35:04) minute for us to go through heart (00:35:06) probing questions, what to put off and (00:35:08) what to put on. This is kind of designed (00:35:10) more for younger kids, but all you got (00:35:12) to do is just reward it to be to match (00:35:14) the maturity level of older kids, but (00:35:17) hopefully it's the younger kids that are (00:35:18) biting in the beginning, right? (00:35:20) Hopefully we don't have 15-year-olds (00:35:21) that are doing that. (00:35:21) >> And so you're doing this spiel in (00:35:24) Walmart and then you're saying now (00:35:26) because you disobeyed there's a (00:35:28) consequence and then you're taking them (00:35:29) to the parking lot, (00:35:30) >> right? If they're older, they can wait (00:35:31) until you get home. They're old enough (00:35:33) and mature enough to wait until you get (00:35:35) home for a consequence. But when they're (00:35:36) really little, um it's it's it's not (00:35:39) good to wait because they may forget and (00:35:42) then you're having to bring the whole (00:35:43) thing back up. Like I said earlier, (00:35:44) there were several times like when we (00:35:45) were in the grocery store where they (00:35:46) disobeyed or maybe we were at a (00:35:48) restaurant and they were disobeying (00:35:50) where I had to either leave a full cart (00:35:52) of groceries or I had to leave my hot (00:35:55) bread with honey butter and it's going (00:35:57) to get cold. I know. Talk about not (00:35:59) wanting to take the time to do it, (00:36:01) right? But there were several times that (00:36:02) we had to leave and we had to go deal (00:36:04) with that. And then my kids learn. So (00:36:06) instead of battling that over and over (00:36:08) and over for years and years and years, (00:36:10) the more consistent we are when they're (00:36:11) little, uh, the quicker they learn that (00:36:14) our yes means yes and our no means no, (00:36:16) and that there are consequences when you (00:36:18) disobey, the quicker they learn that, (00:36:20) the sooner they're going to they're (00:36:22) going to respond to that. And so taking (00:36:24) the time to be inconvenienced when (00:36:26) they're little is going to save years of (00:36:30) of frustrating moments out in public. (00:36:34) >> [music] (00:36:36) >> My coworker went to the ER with serious (00:36:38) chest pain and trouble breathing. Legit (00:36:40) thinking like I might be having a heart (00:36:42) attack right now. Well, they do all the (00:36:44) scans, everything checks out fine. 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Go to (00:38:32) cozyearth.com, use code alex for 40% off (00:38:34) temperature regulating sheets, apparel, (00:38:36) and more. Sleep warmer, lounge softer, (00:38:38) stay cozy. Seriously, don't wait. Go to (00:38:40) cozyearth.com. Use code Alex for 40% (00:38:42) off. (00:38:46) When a parent says, "Ginger, (00:38:49) I have done timeout. I've done spanking (00:38:51) occasionally. I've done grounding. I've (00:38:55) taken toys away. Uh I have uh you know (00:38:59) made them sit at dinner till they finish (00:39:01) their food. I I've done you know strong (00:39:03) talking to yelling um soft talking to (00:39:06) asking them you know what are you (00:39:07) feeling right now and nothing is working (00:39:09) initially (00:39:11) >> right away what comes to mind for you (00:39:12) when you hear that? What comes to mind (00:39:14) is that there is nothing that we can do (00:39:17) to change the hearts of our children. We (00:39:20) can obey God by teaching them to obey. (00:39:23) We can obey God by administering (00:39:25) consequences when they don't obey, but (00:39:27) only God can change their hearts. And so (00:39:30) that is why we bathe all of our efforts (00:39:33) in prayer for God to use our obedience (00:39:36) in lovingly and gently being consistent (00:39:39) and diligent to train our children in (00:39:42) the wisdom of the Lord to administer (00:39:44) consequences when they don't to point (00:39:46) them to their need for Christ. And then (00:39:48) we pray for God to do the work in their (00:39:50) hearts as only he can do. Would this (00:39:52) chart replace reasoning with children, (00:39:55) young children? (00:39:56) >> I think when as kids get older, it is (00:39:58) certainly appropriate and even (00:40:00) encouraged for them to ask questions if (00:40:02) they don't understand. You know, what is (00:40:04) your reason behind this decision? Can we (00:40:06) talk about that in a respectful way, but (00:40:08) I don't think it's wise to reason with (00:40:11) small children? You know, let's think (00:40:12) about that. Um, you know, maybe mom ask (00:40:15) her six-year-old, uh, honey, don't you (00:40:18) want to come and eat lunch now? M. No, (00:40:22) that's okay, Mom. I think I'd rather (00:40:23) play with my cars. Well, sweetie, uh, (00:40:26) your hot dog's going to get cold if you (00:40:28) don't come and eat it now. (00:40:30) That's okay, Mom. I think I'd rather (00:40:32) play with my cars. Well, honey, I (00:40:34) thought if you would come and eat your (00:40:35) lunch right now, we might have time to (00:40:37) go to the park after. You see, in in (00:40:40) that situation, instead of the mom (00:40:41) simply telling her small child what she (00:40:43) expected and requiring that obedience, (00:40:46) she's trying to talk her child into (00:40:48) obeying by reasoning. Don't you want to (00:40:51) come do this? It's going to get cold. (00:40:53) All of these reasons. But when when (00:40:56) parents try to talk their child into (00:40:59) obeying and reasoning with a small (00:41:02) child, they're putting that child in a (00:41:04) position that they are not mature or (00:41:06) responsible enough to handle. they're (00:41:08) erasing that line of authority that God (00:41:10) has placed between uh the parent and the (00:41:13) child and they're bringing that child up (00:41:15) to a peer level with the parent and that (00:41:18) can cause confusion because they're not (00:41:20) mature and responsible enough to carry (00:41:22) that. So the parent needs to be the (00:41:24) parent and the child needs to be the (00:41:25) child. And so we need to give clear (00:41:28) instructions and then require our (00:41:30) children to respond and obey to those (00:41:32) instructions. Otherwise, we're sending (00:41:34) mixed signals and they're going to be (00:41:36) confused as to is when should we obey (00:41:38) and when should we not. (00:41:40) >> When I hear parents talking about, you (00:41:42) know, their kids not obeying and it's (00:41:44) chaotic and like that example I gave to (00:41:46) you of like somebody who's saying (00:41:47) they've tried a hundred different (00:41:48) things. To me, the biggest thing that (00:41:50) jumps out is inconsistency. (00:41:52) >> You're doing all these, you're trying (00:41:53) all these different things and seeing (00:41:54) what sticks. That seems inconsistent to (00:41:56) me. And I feel like maybe that could be (00:41:57) contributing to your kid not listening. (00:41:59) >> Yeah, I think so, too. Consistency is (00:42:01) key because when we are consistent, (00:42:03) children learn the law of the harvest. (00:42:06) They learn that they reap what they sow, (00:42:09) that there are consequences when they do (00:42:11) something wrong. And I think it's okay (00:42:12) to tell them what those consequences are (00:42:14) going to be. So for direct disobedience, (00:42:16) we had this consequence. Um for whining, (00:42:20) there was the consequence of you're (00:42:21) going to have to wait two or three (00:42:23) minutes until you can come back and ask (00:42:24) the right way or communicate the right (00:42:26) way. So consequences can can differ, but (00:42:30) I think that we need to set clear (00:42:33) boundaries. When we set clear boundaries (00:42:36) and our children know what those (00:42:38) boundaries are, they're going to be more (00:42:41) secure because they are going to know I (00:42:44) have a choice here. This is a clear (00:42:45) boundary. I can either choose to obey or (00:42:48) choose to disobey. (00:42:50) >> What should a parent do if when they're (00:42:51) disciplining their child, the kid is (00:42:52) smirking or being like that doesn't even (00:42:54) hurt? Well, again, it goes back to God (00:42:57) changing the heart. You know, we can do (00:42:59) all that we're required to do, and we (00:43:01) should, but we also have to pray that (00:43:04) the Lord will change the heart. But you (00:43:06) can certainly I actually have in the (00:43:07) chart defiant looks, defiant attitudes. (00:43:10) Honey, are you obeying with your (00:43:12) attitude? (00:43:14) >> No, honey, you're not. So, let me let me (00:43:15) find that one because I forget. This is (00:43:17) why I have my cheat sheet because I (00:43:18) can't remember all of these. (00:43:19) >> This is great. I want to download this (00:43:21) now and hang it up and just start (00:43:22) memorizing it for the future. So for (00:43:25) defiant attitudes, defiant look again is (00:43:27) are you obeying or are you obeying or (00:43:29) disobeying with your attitude? And then (00:43:31) here's another question. Are you truly (00:43:33) obeying when you obey with an unhappy (00:43:35) heart? Is that true obedience when it's (00:43:37) not really coming from the heart? It's (00:43:38) not. And then defiance, what to put off? (00:43:41) Here's good scripture. Everything is (00:43:42) based on scripture in here. So I (00:43:44) actually give the scripture passages, (00:43:45) but um defiant attitude, defiant. Look, (00:43:48) what they're to put off is defiance. And (00:43:50) this is scripture. A hardened face (00:43:52) reflects a hardened heart. And here's (00:43:54) the passage. It's Proverbs 28:14, (00:43:56) "Whoever hardens their heart falls into (00:43:59) trouble." And then Proverbs 12:1 says, (00:44:01) "It is foolish for you to despise (00:44:03) instruction." And then what are they to (00:44:05) put on? They're to put on submission. Um (00:44:08) Proverbs 10:8 says, "A the wise in heart (00:44:11) accepts commands." And Proverbs 15:13 (00:44:14) says, "A happy heart makes the face (00:44:16) cheerful." And so again, it's just (00:44:18) taking them to scripture. And then we (00:44:20) know when I would when I was consistent (00:44:23) to go to the word of God to ask a couple (00:44:25) of heart probing questions to teach them (00:44:26) what does God's word say about putting (00:44:28) off and what to put on. When I laid my (00:44:30) head down at night, I knew that I had (00:44:32) done everything that I could do all that (00:44:35) God had required me to do. And then I (00:44:37) would pray, "Lord, take my efforts and (00:44:40) bless them because only you can do a (00:44:42) work in their hearts." (00:44:43) >> And this is why I think this all really (00:44:45) goes back to what you talked about in (00:44:47) the very very beginning, which is total (00:44:48) depravity. and understanding that your (00:44:51) kid is a sinner. (00:44:52) >> They're not good inside. They're not (00:44:54) born good inside. Right? When you are (00:44:56) saying, "I can have peace knowing I did (00:44:57) everything that I have to do and that (00:44:58) ultimately there's a heart change and (00:45:00) that's between my child and the Lord and (00:45:02) them becoming saved or not." Um, I just (00:45:05) think that's key that a lot of parents (00:45:06) forget. Yeah. And you know, another good (00:45:08) thing about understanding that truth (00:45:10) that no matter what we do, really only (00:45:12) God can change their hearts. What I love (00:45:14) about that is that it helps us from (00:45:16) being prideful when our children make (00:45:19) foolish decisions and maybe they grow up (00:45:21) and don't turn out well. But it also (00:45:23) keeps us from feeling defeated when they (00:45:25) don't because we have obeyed and we have (00:45:27) prayed and the rest is up to God to (00:45:29) change their heart and to them to (00:45:30) respond to the Lord. (00:45:31) >> So how do you actually get children to (00:45:34) implement the principles being taught (00:45:35) and not just hear them (00:45:36) >> by requiring them to practice the (00:45:39) biblical alternative to that sinful (00:45:41) behavior? It's never enough to just (00:45:43) train our kids in what not to do. We (00:45:46) always have to take it a step further (00:45:47) and train them what to do. That's what (00:45:49) training them in wisdom. That's what it (00:45:51) means when the Bible says for parents to (00:45:52) train their children in righteousness. (00:45:54) And we stop our training so often at (00:45:56) telling our kids what not to do. Like (00:45:58) say that an older child, we've been (00:45:59) talking a lot about younger kids. Say (00:46:01) that an older child speaks (00:46:02) disrespectfully to uh to their mom or (00:46:05) dad and we say that was disrespectful. (00:46:07) You shouldn't talk to me like that. Now (00:46:08) go to your room. And we think we've done (00:46:10) well because we have identified exactly (00:46:12) what it is the kid was doing wrong. He (00:46:14) was speaking disrespectfully and we've (00:46:16) administered a consequence. They have to (00:46:17) go to their room. Maybe no TV tonight or (00:46:19) you can't play your games or take your (00:46:20) phone away for the night. And we think (00:46:22) we've done well because we've identified (00:46:24) that sin and then we've administered a (00:46:26) consequence. But I call this the (00:46:29) practice principle in my in my books. Um (00:46:31) the practice principle maintains the (00:46:33) fact that we have not disciplined our (00:46:35) children properly until we have required (00:46:37) them to come back and practice the (00:46:40) biblical alternative to that wrong (00:46:43) behavior. We want them to practice that (00:46:45) because when they do that, they're (00:46:46) actually learning how to apply God's (00:46:48) word to daily life. So with the (00:46:51) 10-year-old, what would you have them (00:46:52) do? You can stay in your room until (00:46:54) you're well willing to come back out and (00:46:56) say try that again. Try that again in a (00:46:59) way that does honor. You know, for my (00:47:00) kids, um, that meant coming back out and (00:47:04) using the appropriate words and the (00:47:06) appropriate facial expression as you (00:47:08) just mentioned. And also for many kids, (00:47:10) uh, particularly mine as they grow into (00:47:12) their teen years, um, that that that (00:47:14) that facial expression, you know, (00:47:16) because you can see (00:47:17) >> that was me. (00:47:17) >> Yeah, you was a nightmare. Yeah, me too. (00:47:19) >> What are your best tips for handling mom (00:47:21) anger? (00:47:22) >> We're all going to get angry sometimes. (00:47:23) And there's a such thing as a righteous (00:47:25) anger. The Bible does not say do not (00:47:26) become angry. It says, "In your anger, (00:47:29) do not sin." You know, when we see our (00:47:31) children disobeying the Lord, there (00:47:33) could be this anger that rises up. But (00:47:35) we've got to ask ourselves, am I angry (00:47:37) because my child is sinning against God (00:47:40) or because he has uh embarrassed me or (00:47:43) caused me some sort of trouble or (00:47:45) inconvenience in some way. And so the (00:47:47) heart posture, the heart attitude needs (00:47:49) to be I love my children too much to (00:47:52) allow them to disobey and live (00:47:54) foolishly. So, are we responding with (00:47:56) that sort of attitude? And if we're not, (00:47:58) you know, you mentioned timeout. I'm not (00:48:00) a big fan of timeout, but I am a big fan (00:48:02) of of I guess more of a reflective (00:48:04) timeout for the parent. And so, when I (00:48:07) feel that anger rising up in me, I'm (00:48:09) going to it's okay to send their our (00:48:11) kids to their room while we say, "Hey, I (00:48:13) need a few minutes in my room." Or if (00:48:15) you can't go to your room, step away for (00:48:16) a moment. And just a short prayer. Lord, (00:48:18) I'm angry right now because um because (00:48:21) my will is being violated here. They're (00:48:23) not doing what I told them to do for the (00:48:25) 50th time. But I need for you to make my (00:48:27) heart right so that I'm going to go and (00:48:29) respond in ways that bring you glory. A (00:48:33) and do not sin against my kids. Because (00:48:35) if we lash out and we respond in anger (00:48:37) to our kids, that reproof, that (00:48:39) discipline is going to be administered (00:48:41) in a sinful way. And that is going to (00:48:44) cause our children to be exasperated. (00:48:46) It's going to provoke them to anger. The (00:48:48) scripture says, "A gentle answer turns (00:48:50) away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up (00:48:53) anger." And so, if we're angry and we're (00:48:56) disciplining in anger, that's going to (00:48:57) provoke our children to anger. So, we (00:48:59) need to step away for a moment and make (00:49:01) sure that our hearts are right before we (00:49:04) reprove and discipline our kids. It's (00:49:06) okay. Take a minute. It's okay to take a (00:49:08) minute. Why aren't you a fan of timeout? (00:49:09) >> Well, for me, I know that some parents (00:49:11) say that timeout is huge for them. And (00:49:14) so, I don't think it's wrong to use (00:49:15) timeout. I don't think it's not biblical (00:49:16) to use timeout, but for my kids, I found (00:49:19) that when I put them in timeout, (00:49:20) especially when they were younger, they (00:49:22) would get up. Well, then you've got this (00:49:24) whole other issue of disobedience going (00:49:26) on. And so, it can just go on and on. (00:49:28) And then you can get into a power (00:49:30) struggle with your kids because they're (00:49:32) getting up. So, then you have this whole (00:49:33) other thing that you're having to deal (00:49:35) with. So for my kids for direct (00:49:36) disobedience, we would just go ahead and (00:49:38) deal with it then instead of putting (00:49:40) them in timeout where they can get up (00:49:41) and then we're, you know, it drags on (00:49:43) and on and on, which which can also be (00:49:45) torturous for kids. So I was really big (00:49:46) on let's go ahead and deal with this (00:49:48) quickly, get it over with, clean slate. (00:49:51) Now you have, you know, a choice. Are (00:49:53) you going to obey or you going to (00:49:54) disobey? (00:49:54) >> Is it possible for a mom to stop yelling (00:49:57) even if it's a deeply ingrained habit? (00:49:59) >> Yeah, sure. All things are possible with (00:50:01) God, right? But it's got to be through (00:50:03) the Holy Spirit. some of those things (00:50:04) that we get into the habit of, we can (00:50:06) only overcome those things by the power (00:50:08) of the Holy Spirit. So, I would say (00:50:10) pray. Whatever your biggest struggle is, (00:50:12) pray. And something else I really (00:50:14) encourage um moms to do is to repent (00:50:17) when they blow it because we're all (00:50:19) going to blow it sometimes. I mean, (00:50:20) Alex, I knew to do all of these things, (00:50:21) but there were times that I raised my (00:50:23) voice to my kids when I should not have. (00:50:25) And you know, in those moments, I would (00:50:29) use that as an opportunity instead of (00:50:30) just beating myself up about it. I blew (00:50:32) it again. Um, I would I would ask the (00:50:35) Lord's forgiveness. I would pray through (00:50:36) it and then I would sit my kids down (00:50:37) sometimes and I'd say, "You know what, (00:50:39) honey? The angry way that I just spoke (00:50:41) to you, it did not show respect for you (00:50:45) and it did not honor God. Will you (00:50:46) forgive me? Let me try that again in a (00:50:49) way that does show respect for you and (00:50:51) does honor God." And again, I'm I'm I'm (00:50:54) modeling for them the same thing I'm (00:50:55) asking of them to put off what is wrong (00:50:58) and then to practice putting on what is (00:51:00) right. And not only that, but when we (00:51:02) blow it with our kids and we take that (00:51:04) time to ask their forgiveness and go (00:51:06) back and make things right, we are (00:51:08) modeling for our kids what it means to (00:51:11) have a personal relationship with Jesus. (00:51:13) We're modeling for our kids what the (00:51:16) conviction of the Holy Spirit looks like (00:51:18) and how to rightly respond to that (00:51:20) conviction. When it comes to yelling, I (00:51:23) it's something that I already know I (00:51:24) would I will struggle with as a parent. (00:51:26) Even just around my friend's kids, like (00:51:28) if I'm the only adult in a room and (00:51:30) people are attacking each other or one's (00:51:32) crawling this wall to get into some (00:51:33) cabinet or something, I'm the first to (00:51:34) be like, "Hey, [laughter] (00:51:36) >> get get off. Get down. Stop." You know? (00:51:39) So, I see that in myself. And I grew up (00:51:42) in a home where it was we yelled. So, (00:51:44) like I know that I'm going to have to (00:51:45) struggle with that. It's something that (00:51:46) was taught to me. That's like the way (00:51:48) that I saw parenting be done. And then (00:51:50) so I guess when you've got multiple kids (00:51:53) of different ages all disobeying at (00:51:56) once, right? (00:51:57) >> How do you correct that in the moment (00:51:59) without yelling? (00:52:00) >> Right. Well, and I would say there are (00:52:01) times when it might be necessary to (00:52:02) raise your voice. I mean, obviously, if (00:52:04) your child's going over there to a (00:52:06) boiling pot and they're about to, you (00:52:07) know, yank it off and you're on the (00:52:09) other side of the kitchen, you know, (00:52:11) hey, stop. You know, that's going to be (00:52:13) appropriate. But uh one thing that I (00:52:16) think might help for parents who (00:52:18) struggle or it helped me anyway because (00:52:20) I struggled with that too is that I (00:52:22) would take time to make eye to eye (00:52:23) contact when you can. I mean obviously (00:52:25) if the boiling pot is is part of the (00:52:27) equation here you're [laughter] going to (00:52:28) have to running towards traffic (00:52:29) >> or running towards traffic. You may you (00:52:31) may have to yell and that's fine. That's (00:52:32) for the safety of our kids. But when you (00:52:35) can, when you see them disobeying or you (00:52:37) see them doing something they're not (00:52:38) supposed to do, take time instead of (00:52:40) yelling from across the room, take time (00:52:42) to go over there and kneel down and make (00:52:45) eye to eye contact. And something else (00:52:47) that I found is when you are asking (00:52:50) heart probing questions, one or two (00:52:52) heart probing questions, when you are (00:52:53) teaching them scripture, it's hard to (00:52:55) yell the word of God at them because (00:52:57) when we're quoting scripture to our (00:52:59) kids, the Holy Spirit is working through (00:53:02) us. And so I found that it's hard to (00:53:04) scream God's word at them. Yeah. It (00:53:06) helped me to have self-control to stop, (00:53:09) make eye to eye contact. You know, some (00:53:11) kids that are super hyper, you might (00:53:13) even touch their shoulder or touch their (00:53:15) face to get them to look you in the eyes (00:53:17) and then ask, "Honey, are you obeying or (00:53:19) are you disobeying right now?" Well, (00:53:21) you're disobeying. God's word says (00:53:22) children obey their parents. And I love (00:53:24) you too much to let you disobey. It's (00:53:26) hard to scream that at them because our (00:53:28) hearts are right when we're in you're in (00:53:30) the midst of that correction. So, if (00:53:31) you've got like a kid on top of another (00:53:33) kid, you know, sticking their fingers in (00:53:34) their eyes and pinching them or (00:53:35) whatever, they're very angry, it's (00:53:36) coming out, physical attacks, (00:53:39) >> do you just go up, pick them up, and (00:53:41) silently take them into another room and (00:53:43) then have that eye to eye conversation? (00:53:44) Like, what's the best way to deal with (00:53:46) it when they're like attacking each (00:53:48) other? Well, they're attacking each (00:53:49) other, you might address it. If they're (00:53:50) if they're both in it together, you (00:53:51) could address them at the same time. And (00:53:53) so, I don't really see picking them up (00:53:54) and taking them another one, but (00:53:55) definitely sitting them down and having (00:53:57) this conversation with both of them. But (00:53:59) when it's just one child, I really (00:54:01) recommend not embarrassing them. Um (00:54:03) whether you're out in public or whether (00:54:05) they're having this battle with their (00:54:06) friends, but to take them off to the (00:54:08) side. When we correct and reprove our (00:54:10) children in front of others, we take (00:54:12) their focus off of the sin in their own (00:54:14) heart and onto the embarrassment and the (00:54:17) humiliation that we have unnecessarily (00:54:20) caused them. Our goal is not to (00:54:21) embarrass and humiliate our kids, but to (00:54:23) point them to the wisdom and (00:54:25) righteousness of Christ. if anybody else (00:54:27) is around, I very much encourage um (00:54:30) parents to take the child off to the (00:54:31) side and just quietly instruct them to (00:54:34) where it's just between the two of you. (00:54:36) So again, I think that helps to have us (00:54:38) to have self-control when we're taking (00:54:40) that moment and we're looking at it from (00:54:41) what are what is our goal here. Yeah. (00:54:43) It's to reach their heart and to point (00:54:45) them to Christ. 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They're going to color (00:56:37) match you for free. And if it's wrong, (00:56:39) they'll just send you another one. No (00:56:40) fight, no hostage negotiation. They (00:56:43) source from local sustainable farms, (00:56:44) support real people, and make everything (00:56:46) with intention. beauty that actually (00:56:48) comes from the inside, which frankly (00:56:49) sounds fake, but somehow works. Use code (00:56:51) Alex for 25% off your first order at (00:56:53) adelnaturalcosmetics.com. (00:56:55) That's code Alex for 25% off your first (00:56:57) order at adelnaturalosmetics.com. (00:57:02) How do you feel about um stay-at-home (00:57:04) moms that are like, "When your dad gets (00:57:06) home, you're going to get a spank in. (00:57:07) When your dad gets home, you're going to (00:57:08) be dealt with." Do you think that's okay (00:57:10) to kind of pivot to dad and let him be (00:57:13) the disciplinarian like that later on or (00:57:15) does it need to be mom in the moment? I (00:57:17) think it should be mom in the moment. (00:57:18) And I tell you why. There's a couple of (00:57:20) reasons for that. One, especially with (00:57:21) younger kids, mom is the one that's (00:57:23) there, you know, during the day in those (00:57:25) situations and dad is off to work. So, (00:57:27) how how discouraging and torturous for (00:57:30) the child. You know, you just wait until (00:57:32) your dad gets home. He's going to deal (00:57:33) with that. Well, that that's such that's (00:57:36) so hard on kids to have to wait and then (00:57:37) when dad does come home, instead of the (00:57:39) child looking forward to dad getting (00:57:41) home and dad looking forward to coming (00:57:43) home, it's this dreaded moment of dad (00:57:45) coming home. And so, we want that to be (00:57:47) something that they celebrate and look (00:57:48) forward to dad coming home. And I think (00:57:50) it's better to go ahead and deal with (00:57:52) things in the moment. So, if mom's (00:57:54) there, dad's not, go ahead and deal with (00:57:55) it. And then it's like I said, clean (00:57:57) slate, forgiveness, you got a brand new (00:57:59) choice now. But I also encourage dads (00:58:02) when you are home that you would be the (00:58:05) one to deal with that because mom is (00:58:07) dealing with it all day. And it's so (00:58:09) important for kids to see that moms and (00:58:10) dads are on the same page in their (00:58:12) parenting because if they're not, kids (00:58:14) are going to learn how to manipulate one (00:58:16) parent against the other. If mom is (00:58:18) always the one that disciplines, dad's (00:58:20) just Mr. Fun or he's just the one that (00:58:22) does the talking all the time, they're (00:58:24) going to learn how to manipulate one (00:58:26) parent against the other and then you (00:58:27) have marriage problems going on. So the (00:58:29) time it takes to fine-tune your (00:58:30) parenting philosophies to the same (00:58:32) specifics. How are we going to deal with (00:58:34) this in a united way, man, that's so (00:58:37) vital for kids. It can also cause (00:58:39) insecurity when mom and dads are not are (00:58:41) on the same page because they're (00:58:43) confused. Why does dad view it this way (00:58:45) and mom views it this way? So when (00:58:47) they're on the same page, it gives (00:58:48) comfort and security in the hearts of (00:58:50) kids because they see that unity in the (00:58:53) marriage. In your view, do you think (00:58:54) that all children benefit from spanking? (00:58:57) Oh, Alex, you want me to get some hate (00:58:59) emails now? (00:59:00) >> You might get a [laughter] little bit (00:59:02) mo, but they really like you. I will say (00:59:03) my audience really likes you. (00:59:05) >> Okay, let me say this for for my kids. (00:59:08) Um, the biblical use of the rod, (00:59:11) I did that in the right way. And so, it (00:59:14) was done with gentleness, with (00:59:16) self-control, and with love. And my (00:59:18) children knew that. And they will tell (00:59:20) you to this day that they are thankful (00:59:22) that it was done in that way. So when (00:59:24) you ask me, do I think all parents (00:59:26) should spank? I'm going to say no. (00:59:30) >> Parents who are doing it the wrong way, (00:59:32) that are doing it in an abusive, angry, (00:59:36) uh way that is not self-controlled, that (00:59:38) is reactive, um I think it's better to (00:59:41) refrain from that alto together than to (00:59:44) sin against their children and sin (00:59:46) against God in the way that it is (00:59:48) administered. I love this take. But I (00:59:50) also wouldn't say that that's an excuse (00:59:52) not to use the biblical use of the rod. (00:59:54) It's more of a call to really study what (00:59:57) does the scripture say about it. And the (00:59:59) scripture does not say that it is an (01:00:01) angry, abusive form of abuse. It says (01:00:05) it's a loving, gentle um way to correct (01:00:10) our children. A lot of parents see that (01:00:12) passage of scripture and they say, you (01:00:14) know, the rod is a metaphor for a (01:00:16) shepherd's staff. It just means guiding (01:00:18) your children. and it doesn't mean you (01:00:19) literally have to spank them. What's (01:00:20) your response to that? (01:00:21) >> I would say that we need to look to (01:00:22) scripture to that because the scripture (01:00:24) clearly says that the rod is also a form (01:00:27) of punishment. Um in Proverbs it says, (01:00:29) "Do not withhold discipline from a (01:00:31) child. If you punish him with a rod, he (01:00:33) will not die. Punish him with a rod and (01:00:35) save his soul from death." So clearly (01:00:38) there are passages of scripture where (01:00:39) the rod is used in ways other than just (01:00:42) gently nudging them to go in a different (01:00:45) direction. It it's called a form of (01:00:47) punishment. But again, it's not an angry (01:00:49) abusive form of punishment. I have (01:00:51) people say, you know, Jesus would never (01:00:52) abuse a child. And well, of course he (01:00:55) wouldn't. Of course Jesus wouldn't abuse (01:00:56) a child. And and he hasn't called (01:00:58) parents to abuse their children, but he (01:01:00) has called us to lovingly discipline our (01:01:03) children with self-control and um to (01:01:06) train them up in in his ways. (01:01:08) >> How do you handle a child who screams (01:01:10) during correction of any form and (01:01:11) refuses to calm down? (01:01:13) >> Well, I had one that did and one that (01:01:14) didn't. And so I think that that is (01:01:16) where we have to study our children. (01:01:19) Some kids may need a little bit of time (01:01:21) to calm down before discipline actually (01:01:24) uh goes down. And then some kids I had (01:01:26) one that wanted to get it over with very (01:01:28) quickly. And so even though they're (01:01:29) screaming and crying, I just know we (01:01:30) need to go ahead and get this over with (01:01:32) quickly and then live give them a little (01:01:33) time. I mean, you know, when when we (01:01:35) when we suffer consequences, it's (01:01:37) painful. The Bible says in Hebrews that (01:01:41) no discipline seems pleasant at the (01:01:43) time, but painful. Later on, however, it (01:01:45) produces a harvest of righteousness and (01:01:48) peace for those who have been trained by (01:01:49) it. We have to discipline even though (01:01:51) it's not pleasant. I I don't think I (01:01:53) knew of anything harder than (01:01:54) disciplining my kids. It wasn't it (01:01:56) wasn't pleasant for me and it wasn't (01:01:58) pleasant for them, but I knew that it (01:01:59) was necessary to produce that harvest of (01:02:01) righteousness and peace. And it says (01:02:03) later on it produces that. So, we just (01:02:05) have to suffer through the the heartache (01:02:07) of that and the unpleasantness of that. (01:02:10) And that might involve a lot of tears (01:02:11) and maybe even some screaming. Um, but (01:02:14) that doesn't mean that we don't do it. (01:02:16) It means that we honor the Lord because (01:02:17) that's where righteousness and peace (01:02:20) come in. How can a mom who feels (01:02:22) completely overwhelmed, her house is in (01:02:24) chaos, it's been a very long time, maybe (01:02:26) even years, since her kids really (01:02:27) respected and listened to her, how does (01:02:29) she know where to start? (01:02:30) >> Oh, wow. Yeah. Because some people may (01:02:31) have been listening to this and (01:02:32) thinking, "Oh, man. I've just completely (01:02:34) blown it. it's too late. You know, there (01:02:35) there's no starting over now. I can't. (01:02:37) But you absolutely can. Those moms for (01:02:39) sure can. I would say um you know, just (01:02:42) sit your kids down, no matter how old (01:02:44) they are, in an age appropriate way. (01:02:46) Just say something like, you know, (01:02:47) honey, I I have been reading the Bible (01:02:49) and praying. And you know, I have not (01:02:52) been disciplining you the way that I (01:02:55) should. God's word says that I'm (01:02:56) supposed to train you to obey and to (01:02:58) live in wisdom, and I've been allowing (01:03:01) you to disobey and live foolishly. Will (01:03:04) you forgive me for that? And here's what (01:03:06) scripture says. And so going forward and (01:03:09) then just lay out the boundaries. This (01:03:11) is what's required. And when you when (01:03:13) you don't do these things, this is what (01:03:15) the consequence is going to be. So just (01:03:17) apologize, ask forgiveness, and start (01:03:20) fresh. You know, the Bible says that (01:03:21) God's mercies are new every morning, and (01:03:23) great is his faithfulness. (01:03:25) >> How do you raise children who not only (01:03:26) respect you, but actually want a (01:03:28) relationship with you as an adult? Well, (01:03:30) in my own experience, I have found that (01:03:33) when we take time to spend time with our (01:03:36) kids, to do fun things with them, to (01:03:39) have that balance of not just being the (01:03:41) disciplinarian, but also the one that (01:03:43) that is always nurturing and comforting (01:03:46) and involved in their lives, in every (01:03:48) aspect of their lives, they're going to (01:03:50) want a relationship with us when we get (01:03:51) older. the discipline part. When we're (01:03:53) consistent in the younger years, as they (01:03:56) grow into their teen years, we want to (01:03:57) loosen those reigns. And as we do that, (01:04:00) we're respecting them and start allowing (01:04:02) them to make some of their own (01:04:04) decisions. And then we be we we kind of (01:04:06) move into a coaching or an advisory kind (01:04:09) of stage is. And that's that's where we (01:04:10) are with our kids today. you know, their (01:04:12) 20s and and young 30s now, but even in (01:04:15) their teen years, we had to make that (01:04:17) transition from being, okay, you (01:04:19) disobeyed and here's this consequence to (01:04:21) more of a coaching um kind of parent to (01:04:25) where you want them to come. Like my (01:04:26) kids when they messed up in some way in (01:04:29) their lives, they were comfortable (01:04:30) coming to me in their teen years and (01:04:32) saying, "Man, I messed up. I did this." (01:04:34) And there wasn't, "Well, you shouldn't (01:04:35) have done that and you knew better." (01:04:36) There was this, "Well, there is (01:04:38) forgiveness in Christ. There is a clean (01:04:40) slate when you ask forgiveness and when (01:04:41) you turn from that and you repent from (01:04:43) that. And that is the beauty of knowing (01:04:46) Christ and what he's done for us. And so (01:04:48) there was no shaming in the teen years (01:04:50) when they did make some bad decisions. (01:04:52) >> There there was um there was (01:04:54) understanding because man, woo, I made (01:04:56) some bad decisions in my teen years, (01:04:58) too. And I would share that. I would (01:05:00) relate and say, you know, I I did that (01:05:02) same thing when I was a teenager. And (01:05:04) I'm so thankful for the grace and the (01:05:06) mercy and the forgiveness of God and (01:05:09) that he empowers us to turn from those (01:05:11) ways and to follow him. (01:05:12) >> Yeah. (01:05:13) >> And so be honest, be transparent in age (01:05:15) appropriate ways. Obviously, some of the (01:05:17) things that I did as a teenager, I (01:05:18) didn't share with my kids until they (01:05:20) were almost teenagers themselves. But (01:05:22) there's something to be said for (01:05:23) transparency and the grace of God in our (01:05:25) own lives and thankfulness for that. (01:05:27) When we have received a lot of grace, (01:05:29) we're willing to show a lot of grace. (01:05:31) >> Okay. I have to ask this random (01:05:32) question. Okay. cuz your kids are the (01:05:34) same age as me. Um, (01:05:36) were you guys a Spongebob house or not a (01:05:38) Spongebob house? (01:05:39) >> Oh, we love Spongebob. (01:05:40) >> Okay. Okay. So, that's not what's wrong (01:05:42) with me. Ginger Hubard's kids also (01:05:44) watched [laughter] Spongebob. Yeah, (01:05:45) >> they did. And there was some stuff, you (01:05:47) know, that's another thing, though. When (01:05:48) you see something in and I mean, (01:05:50) obviously, I was pretty protective. We (01:05:51) also loved Veggie Tales. That was one of (01:05:53) our favorites. Yeah. This is so funny. (01:05:55) My daughter and I um just went out to (01:05:57) the Share the Arrows conference and she (01:05:59) she is her she is the biggest fan of you (01:06:01) and Ali Beth Stucky. (01:06:03) >> I'm honored. (01:06:03) >> You you guys are her favorite. Like she (01:06:05) was so jealous that Ronnie got to come (01:06:06) instead of her. So I need to get I need (01:06:08) to get a picture with you. But anyway, (01:06:09) so we were out there with um with Ali (01:06:11) Beth and Alex was like what question (01:06:13) should I answer ask her because she has (01:06:14) this Q&A time. So she's like, you know, (01:06:16) losing sleep over what questions she's (01:06:18) going to ask Ally Beth and she was the (01:06:20) first one like as soon as Ali Beth (01:06:22) opened up to questions, Alex like she's (01:06:23) like you. She's so outspoken and just, (01:06:26) you know, very um wears her feelings on (01:06:29) her sleeves, the whole thing. So, she (01:06:30) grabs her napkin like this nice formal (01:06:32) dinner with, you know, the the white (01:06:34) tablecloth and she grabs her napkin (01:06:35) goes, "Woohoo! Woohoo!" to get to get (01:06:37) Ali Beth's attention. And so, Ali Beth (01:06:39) as she said, "So, why do you not like (01:06:41) Veggie Tales?" [laughter] She's like, (01:06:43) "Is that going to ask?" (01:06:45) >> What was Alli's answer about Ally? (01:06:47) >> She said, "I do like Veggie Tales. I (01:06:49) just don't like how woke um Phil this (01:06:52) year." Is that as how woke he is? (01:06:53) >> It's changed now, (01:06:54) >> right? But that was a quick answer. I do (01:06:55) like Veggie Tail. So my Alex just sat (01:06:57) back down like, "Oh, that probably (01:06:59) wasn't the best question." (01:07:00) >> Well, listen, you got to tell your Alex (01:07:02) that this Alex, one of my favorite (01:07:03) memes. Yeah, (01:07:04) >> this is this picture of Bob the tomato (01:07:07) and I always send it to my friends and (01:07:08) it says, "Uh-oh, Bob the tomato caught (01:07:10) you sinning." [laughter] (01:07:13) >> That's great. Yeah, huge Veggie Tale (01:07:15) fans. But yes, I also let her watch (01:07:17) Spongebob. That's why she turned out so (01:07:18) great. (01:07:19) >> There you go. Spongebob's so much fun. (01:07:21) Um, but also when it's it's okay when (01:07:24) we're watching things like that with our (01:07:26) kids too to take moments when we see (01:07:27) when Spongebob does something that's (01:07:29) maybe not the best thing to do or his (01:07:31) sidekick. Who was it? Who was his (01:07:32) craziest (01:07:33) >> Patrick? Yeah, Patrick. Um, we can talk (01:07:35) about that and say, "Oh, you know, what (01:07:37) do you think about that? What did you (01:07:39) think about the way that Spongebob did (01:07:41) that? Handle that." So you can (01:07:42) [laughter] you can take so you can still (01:07:43) watch the fun things and use it as (01:07:45) teaching moments to talk about sometimes (01:07:47) you know what do you think might have (01:07:48) been a better thing to do in that (01:07:49) situation? (01:07:50) >> Please tell us Jinger about your books (01:07:52) and um your books about discipline and (01:07:54) then do you have anything new coming out (01:07:55) anytime soon? (01:07:56) >> One thing that just came out that we're (01:07:58) excited about. I do have a podcast (01:07:59) parenting with Ginger Hubard and we talk (01:08:01) about all things parenting. We're very (01:08:04) um all about helping parents get past (01:08:06) that outward behavior, getting to the (01:08:08) heart of those issues and then (01:08:10) addressing them from a biblical (01:08:11) perspective. And practically, I am super (01:08:13) super passionate about helping parents (01:08:15) move past the frustrations of not (01:08:17) knowing how to handle all of these (01:08:19) issues and into a very confident, (01:08:21) practical, biblical approach to raising (01:08:23) their kids. So, I'm really excited about (01:08:25) the podcast. And the newest uh resource (01:08:27) that just came out is we have a study (01:08:29) guide. We now have a sixeek study guide (01:08:31) for the podcast. so that moms or even (01:08:33) parents can get together and listen to (01:08:35) the podcast and then discuss those (01:08:37) things and grow and learn from each (01:08:38) other as well. So that was the newest (01:08:41) resource um that came out. But I guess (01:08:43) my most foundational resources are the (01:08:45) wise words for mom's chart that we've (01:08:47) talked about a little bit today. And (01:08:49) then um my my bestselling parenting book (01:08:51) is don't make me count to three, which (01:08:53) is a mom's look at heart oriented (01:08:54) discipline. And that is broken down into (01:08:56) three parts. How to get to the heart, (01:08:58) how to give a biblical reproof, and then (01:09:00) the biblical use of the rod. So, if you (01:09:02) are on the fence about the rod, that (01:09:04) would be a good book to uh look at. What (01:09:06) does the Bible say about the rod? What (01:09:08) is the right way to do it? What's the (01:09:10) wrong way to do it? So many parents are (01:09:11) not using it the right way. And so, I (01:09:13) give guidelines for how to use it the (01:09:15) right way. Again, very practical and (01:09:18) very heart-oriented. So, and what's the (01:09:20) website to download all this? (01:09:21) Gingerhubard.com. (01:09:23) And Alex, for your listeners, if they (01:09:25) use code parenting at checkout, I'll (01:09:27) give them a 10% discount on all of (01:09:29) these. Yeah, I really appreciate when (01:09:31) people order. You can get stuff on other (01:09:33) online retailers, but I very much (01:09:35) appreciate it when people order through (01:09:36) the website because that is a way that (01:09:38) helps support my podcast and our (01:09:41) ministry. So, I always like to get that (01:09:42) discount. So, (01:09:43) >> yes, we should do that. So, code (01:09:44) parenting. Um, and then what is your (01:09:46) Instagram? Ginger.hubard. If you could (01:09:49) offer one remedy to heal a sick culture (01:09:51) physically, emotionally, or spiritually, (01:09:54) what would it be? I would say to not (01:09:57) give up doing good. And that is (01:09:59) something that you're really good at is (01:10:01) you are bold and I know you get a lot of (01:10:03) flack from some of the things that you (01:10:05) because you are very aggressive and and (01:10:07) very bold, but you are aggressive and (01:10:09) bold in truth and that's where we're (01:10:11) supposed to be aggressive and bold. So I (01:10:13) appreciate the ministry that you're (01:10:14) doing and I know you get a lot of (01:10:16) criticism from it. But if you were not (01:10:18) being persecuted, (01:10:20) >> you would not be doing something right (01:10:21) because the scripture says when we are (01:10:22) speaking truth with boldness, there will (01:10:25) be persecution. So you keep on doing (01:10:27) that. And to parents, I want to say this (01:10:29) to parents. Training our children in the (01:10:32) discipline and instruction of the Lord (01:10:34) is we can become so weary from doing (01:10:37) that day in and day out just become so (01:10:40) weary from training them in some of (01:10:41) these same things over and over and over (01:10:43) that they really struggle with. But we (01:10:45) can be encouraged with Galatians 6:9. (01:10:47) And that verse says, "Let us not become (01:10:50) weary in doing good. For at the proper (01:10:52) time we will reap a harvest if we do not (01:10:55) give up." That was my life verse for (01:10:57) parenting. (01:10:58) >> Ginger, this has been so edifying, so (01:11:00) beautiful, so encouraging, just (01:11:02) delightful. Thank you for coming on (01:11:03) Culture Apothecary. (01:11:04) >> A thank you for having me. What an honor (01:11:06) to get to meet you. (01:11:10) >> If scripture calls parents to train the (01:11:12) heart, why are so many modern discipline (01:11:15) methods built around managing emotions (01:11:17) instead of obedience? Continue the (01:11:19) discussion in the Keats Facebook group (01:11:21) or leave a fivestar review with your (01:11:22) thoughts on this episode. We're trying (01:11:24) to heal us at sick culture physically, (01:11:25) emotionally, and spiritually twice a (01:11:27) week on Mondays and Thursdays with (01:11:29) expert guests. Follow the show on (01:11:30) Instagram at culture apothecary or you (01:11:32) can find me at real Alex Clark. [music] (01:11:34) I'm Alex Clark and thanks for listening (01:11:35) to Culture Apothecary.