The 4 Big Lies We Tell Parents (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) [Music] (00:00:02) What matters more to our society right (00:00:04) now, which means our values are very (00:00:06) screwed up, is the GDP and our economy (00:00:09) rather than what's actually good for the (00:00:11) mental health of our children. We're (00:00:13) seeing almost immediately that babies (00:00:15) stress levels are so high they're (00:00:17) developing anxiety, depression, ADHD, (00:00:20) and more aggression. I blame the (00:00:23) fragility of our young people and the (00:00:25) fact that they're breaking down on the (00:00:27) fact that the adults in the room were (00:00:29) not doing their job. You are responsible (00:00:31) for your children's mental illness. So, (00:00:34) we talked about the lies we tell women (00:00:36) and mothers. What are the lies we tell (00:00:38) men and fathers? (00:00:41) Erica, great to have you on (00:00:42) trigonometry. Thank you for having me. (00:00:44) And the reason it's great to have you (00:00:45) on, you are super controversial. uh you (00:00:48) wrote this book in which you suggested (00:00:49) that mothers are really good for their (00:00:51) kids. Is that right? Yes. Shouldn't be (00:00:54) controversial but yes. Yes. Uh what I (00:00:57) you know I'm joking around obviously but (00:00:59) what you wrote the book about (00:01:00) essentially the central theme is (00:01:02) particularly in the first three years (00:01:04) babies and toddlers really need their (00:01:06) mom around. And that seems like actually (00:01:08) is quite a difficult thing to say in the (00:01:11) modern world. But you can't even use the (00:01:12) term mother in some places. In Northern (00:01:14) Europe now, in some countries, you're (00:01:16) not even allowed to use the term mother. (00:01:18) At the UN, they won't let you use the (00:01:19) term mother. So, yeah, it's it is (00:01:22) problematic. Yeah. And why can't you use (00:01:24) the term mother? Because they feel (00:01:26) everything has to be genderneutral and (00:01:28) that mothers are exactly the same as (00:01:30) fathers. And the truth is that um there (00:01:32) are a lot of ways in which men and women (00:01:34) are the same, but there's a lot of ways (00:01:35) in which we're different. And one of the (00:01:37) ways in which we're different is how we (00:01:38) nurture children. (00:01:40) [Laughter] (00:01:42) Imagine that. Well, the reason I think (00:01:45) we again we're joking around, but (00:01:46) actually I think the reason it is a (00:01:48) difficult thing to talk about is not (00:01:50) actually that a bunch of snowflakes are (00:01:52) offended, but I think the the nature of (00:01:55) our modern world has changed so much (00:01:57) that a lot of women really feel a (00:01:59) tremendous amount of pressure to get (00:02:02) back to work. And that pressure is often (00:02:03) economic. It's some of it is cultural, (00:02:05) some of it's societal. And it it's just (00:02:08) a difficult message for some people to (00:02:10) hear because maybe they don't have that (00:02:12) choice nowadays. Is that fair? Yeah. (00:02:14) There's a a huge rise in postpartum (00:02:17) depression. Really? Mhm. It's very very (00:02:20) high now. Um in some places as high as (00:02:25) 30%. Um and one of the reasons that I (00:02:28) see for that in my practice is that (00:02:30) women uh from the moment they get (00:02:32) pregnant are conflicted. they feel a (00:02:34) terrific amount of conflict and when (00:02:36) they have a baby even if they have time (00:02:39) off um they are always preoccupied with (00:02:42) when they're going to go back. So they (00:02:44) it's very hard for women to relax and (00:02:47) feel that their role is valuable and (00:02:49) their time is valuable and well spent (00:02:51) because they feel a lot of internal (00:02:53) turmoil and conflict. Um and we've done (00:02:55) that to women and to men. we've created (00:02:58) this conflict where we can't just say um (00:03:02) sort of like just being able to say (00:03:03) mothers are important. We can't just say (00:03:06) um being with your children in those (00:03:08) early years is just really critically (00:03:09) important and relax into it and enjoy it (00:03:12) and and you you have a long life and you (00:03:15) can do everything in your life. You can (00:03:17) be successful with your career but just (00:03:19) not all at the same time. And uh you say (00:03:23) all this stuff about how it's better for (00:03:25) mothers. What's wrong with sending your (00:03:27) six-month-old to to a nursery to (00:03:29) daycare? So, daycare for a variety of (00:03:32) reasons is very bad for children. Um, (00:03:35) the right brain, the social emotional (00:03:37) part of the brain is 85% developed by (00:03:40) the age of three. And mothers perform a (00:03:43) number of things, number of roles in (00:03:45) those first three years that helps that (00:03:47) right brain to grow. One of the things (00:03:49) they do is buffer children from stress. (00:03:51) That's one of their major roles. In most (00:03:53) parts of the world, babies are worn on (00:03:55) their mother's bodies to keep the (00:03:57) cortisol levels down, to raise the (00:03:59) oxytocin levels, which is the love (00:04:01) hormone, and to keep the stress levels, (00:04:03) the cortisol hormone down. Um, and what (00:04:06) we're doing is we're separating mothers (00:04:08) and babies at such an early age, that (00:04:10) it's uh stimulating the stress (00:04:12) regulating part of the brain, the (00:04:14) amydala, which is meant to remain (00:04:16) offline for the first year. Baby stress (00:04:18) levels are supposed to be very very low (00:04:21) while their while their brains are (00:04:23) developing in the first year. When we (00:04:25) separate a mother from a baby, that baby (00:04:27) no longer feels safe because they need (00:04:29) something called attachment security and (00:04:31) it creates a great amount of stress. The (00:04:33) c salivary cortisol levels go up very (00:04:36) high. Um those babies um have a higher (00:04:39) incidence of things like aggression, (00:04:41) behavioral problems, and anxiety later (00:04:44) in their school. Um, and even (00:04:46) immediately, I mean, we're seeing almost (00:04:48) immediately that baby's stress levels (00:04:49) are so high, they're developing anxiety, (00:04:52) depression, ADHD, (00:04:54) um, and and more aggression. Um, and so, (00:04:58) you know, basically separating mothers (00:05:01) and babies or separating babies from (00:05:03) their primary attachment figures in (00:05:05) those early years causes too much stress (00:05:07) for that baby's brain. So, do you think, (00:05:09) Erica, a lot of the issues that we're (00:05:11) seeing with our youngsters now, the Gen (00:05:13) Z generation, can be tracked right the (00:05:15) way back to the way that we raised them (00:05:18) as infants? Oh, absolutely. Um, not just (00:05:21) Gen Z, but you know, even before that, (00:05:23) you know, so this started, you would say (00:05:26) the movement to separate mothers and (00:05:29) babies. I mean, I suppose you could say (00:05:30) historically it started with the (00:05:32) industrial revolution when mothers went (00:05:33) to factories, but really when it picked (00:05:35) up speed is the 60s when we started (00:05:38) talking about feminism and the MI (00:05:40) generation and individuality and and how (00:05:43) important it was to pursue your own (00:05:44) personal ambitions and personal desires (00:05:47) and and pleasure and it was all about (00:05:50) pleasure. And so what we did is we (00:05:53) diminished the role of caregiving in (00:05:56) society um because it was hard because (00:05:59) it was a responsible role because it (00:06:01) required sacrifice and and so uh when (00:06:04) that happened and women were pushed to (00:06:06) go out into the work world um when they (00:06:09) had very young children I mean Gloria (00:06:10) Steinum said to women if you don't work (00:06:13) out in the work world you are not part (00:06:15) of our movement and these were to women (00:06:17) who already had young children. Um and (00:06:19) she said things like your kids will be (00:06:21) just fine and our kids are not just fine (00:06:23) particularly in the early years when (00:06:25) mothers disappear. Um so babies are born (00:06:28) incredibly neurologically and (00:06:31) emotionally fragile, right? We know that (00:06:33) that the first three years babies are (00:06:35) not like other creatures ready to go. (00:06:37) They're very fragile. And the thing that (00:06:40) helps them to develop in a healthy way (00:06:42) is that buffering from stress. But also (00:06:45) mothers do this other important thing (00:06:46) which is they regulate baby's emotions (00:06:48) from moment to moment. Every time a (00:06:50) mother soothes a baby that's in (00:06:52) distress, she's actually regulating (00:06:54) their emotions. So babies aren't born (00:06:55) with the ability to regulate their (00:06:57) emotions. So Gen Z, the millennials, (00:07:00) these were generations that were anxiety (00:07:02) and depression which are disorders of (00:07:05) emotional regulation. People cannot (00:07:07) regulate their emotions. Um, I always (00:07:09) say that, you know, when you're a baby, (00:07:10) you're born with the ability to go from (00:07:12) 0 to 60 in 3 seconds with your emotions. (00:07:15) You can go from being happy, happy, (00:07:16) happy to being, you know, sort of like (00:07:20) sailing a sailboat in the Atlantic in a (00:07:22) storm. That's how babies are born. And (00:07:24) it's only because mothers are physically (00:07:26) and emotionally present to to soo the (00:07:29) baby when they're in distress, to help (00:07:30) the baby to regulate emotions, that it's (00:07:32) more like sailing in the Caribbean. You (00:07:34) know, it's interesting what you say (00:07:36) about removing mothers from babies. And (00:07:38) there's going to be a lot of moms (00:07:40) watching this and there's a lot of young (00:07:41) women who are going, "Well, what can I (00:07:45) do?" Because this is the society that we (00:07:47) live in. (00:07:49) The economic realities, whatever you (00:07:51) want to call, whatever you want to call (00:07:52) it, hyper capitalism, blah, blah, blah. (00:07:55) It has effectively meant that the vast (00:07:57) majority of people can't rely on a one (00:08:00) parent income. (00:08:02) So what I would say is strategize for (00:08:05) for those couples that don't have (00:08:06) children, strategize. Think of raising a (00:08:08) child as a team sport. So um do without (00:08:12) when you can do without in the early (00:08:13) years if you have to do without um if (00:08:16) you can, right? And if you can't, then (00:08:18) there's a hierarchy to child care that (00:08:21) is better for children than daycare. Um (00:08:24) the best is your primary attachment (00:08:25) figure. The next best is something (00:08:27) called kinship bond. So it would be your (00:08:29) dad or your aunt or your grandmother or (00:08:32) your next door neighbor who's Aunt Julie (00:08:34) who's like family to you and is has a (00:08:37) more similar investment in your life and (00:08:39) will be around forever. Um that would be (00:08:41) the next best kind of care then would be (00:08:44) a babysitter or nanny which most people (00:08:47) can't afford one babysitter or nanny (00:08:49) which is what's best. It's called single (00:08:51) surrogate caregiving. Um if you can't (00:08:53) afford that then share the care with (00:08:55) another family. Get your best friend and (00:08:58) say, "Let's share the cost of a nanny or (00:09:00) a babysitter." And that's already going (00:09:02) to be better for children than if they (00:09:05) go into daycare. Um, minimize your time (00:09:07) at work whenever possible. Maximize your (00:09:10) time with your children because there is (00:09:12) no such thing as quality time. That is a (00:09:14) ruse. That is a myth. Uh, it was (00:09:16) invented in a time of pushing women (00:09:19) economically to go back into the (00:09:21) workforce. So basically what matters (00:09:23) more to our society right now, which (00:09:25) means our values are very screwed up, is (00:09:27) the GDP and our economy rather than (00:09:30) what's actually good for the mental (00:09:32) health of our children. Because it seems (00:09:34) to me, and I think you'd agree with (00:09:35) this, that women have been sold a lie, (00:09:37) Erica. Absolutely. They've been told (00:09:39) that they can have it all. You can have (00:09:41) the great job. You can have you can be a (00:09:43) COO, a COO, you can raise four kids, you (00:09:46) can do all But that's patently a (00:09:49) nonsense, isn't it? Mhm. more than that. (00:09:52) Yes, that that's all nonsense because (00:09:54) you can have it all in life. I mean, I'm (00:09:55) a good example. My career didn't really (00:09:58) begin in earnest till I was in my 50s (00:10:00) when I wrote a book. Until then, my (00:10:02) practice was so very, very, very small (00:10:04) because I would not leave my children (00:10:06) for more than an hour and a half a day. (00:10:08) Um, and so we got by, but we gave up a (00:10:11) lot. We didn't take vacations. We didn't (00:10:13) have cars, fancy cars. We didn't, you (00:10:16) know, we didn't buy things. We just (00:10:17) said, "We're not going to buy things. (00:10:19) We're a team. You're going to work." I (00:10:21) said to my husband and I'm going to work (00:10:22) a very little, just enough to add to the (00:10:25) income, but we're going to we're going (00:10:26) to hold back on income until our (00:10:29) children were older. So, it takes (00:10:32) strategy and and I do think it's (00:10:34) possible, but I think you have to get (00:10:36) your mindset right around it first. I (00:10:38) think even for for people who are (00:10:42) socioeconomically less privileged, I (00:10:44) think there are ways of maximizing your (00:10:47) time with your children. One of those (00:10:48) ways in my book being there, I (00:10:51) interviewed people from all (00:10:52) socioeconomic backgrounds and the ones (00:10:55) who did the best with their children (00:10:57) were the ones who when they weren't (00:10:59) working devoted their time to their (00:11:02) children. So if you have to work to put (00:11:04) a roof over your children's head or food (00:11:06) on the table, then the answer is when (00:11:08) you come home at night, you belong to (00:11:10) your children. Your weekends belong to (00:11:12) your children. Um, and that's hard for (00:11:15) parents to hear because we're so much (00:11:16) into take care of yourself. And it's so, (00:11:19) but the truth is that if your children (00:11:20) haven't seen you all day, then you need (00:11:22) to compensate by being there as much as (00:11:25) possible. And it's a really important (00:11:26) point because as somebody who used to (00:11:29) teach for longer than I care to (00:11:31) remember, um, one of the things I (00:11:33) noticed was that if a parent wasn't (00:11:35) there, if a caregiver wasn't there, what (00:11:37) immediately the kid would gravitate to (00:11:40) is a screen. Yes. And that brings a (00:11:42) whole host of other problems on top of (00:11:45) what we're already talking about because (00:11:46) another function of parents is they help (00:11:48) to stimulate children, right? They (00:11:50) stimulate their brains. Uh they (00:11:52) stimulate them in so many ways. And so (00:11:54) if you're not there to stimulate your (00:11:56) child, interact with them, basically (00:11:58) just basic interaction, talking to them, (00:12:00) reading to them. Um then they're going (00:12:02) to have to interact with their media, (00:12:04) with their technology. So, um, yeah, I (00:12:07) mean, it's it and again, I I do (00:12:10) encourage it. It's it's easy for us to (00:12:12) say that, you know, you can't afford it. (00:12:16) What I say to parents is before you say (00:12:18) that, before it jumps out of your mouth (00:12:20) that you can't afford it, sit down with (00:12:22) your partner if you have one, sit down (00:12:24) with your parents, if you're a single (00:12:26) parent, sit down with your your extended (00:12:28) family and figure out a way to work (00:12:31) less. If you have to work, to work less. (00:12:34) Um, you know, the goal in life is work (00:12:37) less, make more. So maybe you have a (00:12:39) goal of having the kind of job where you (00:12:42) work by the hour and make more per hour, (00:12:44) but work less hours so you have more (00:12:46) time with your children. Maximize the (00:12:48) time with your children. That's what I (00:12:50) would say. And you mentioned uh a few (00:12:52) things that are interesting to tie (00:12:54) together. I mean, first of all, you (00:12:55) mentioned feminism, and that's an (00:12:57) interesting avenue for us to explore. (00:12:59) Um, because feminism, as I understand (00:13:01) it, was a movement for the liberation of (00:13:03) women. At least that's how it's been (00:13:05) presented. Um, but the problem is with (00:13:08) what you're saying is you you are (00:13:10) putting a framework of parenthood that (00:13:13) is not liberating. It's constraining, (00:13:16) right? You're saying you must sacrifice (00:13:18) of yourself for this thing that you (00:13:20) chose to bring into the world. That's (00:13:22) the opposite of liberation in the way (00:13:23) that we now understand it. So unpack (00:13:25) that for us. Can you be a feminist and (00:13:27) also believe what you believe? I'm a (00:13:29) feminist, but feminism really was was (00:13:32) meant to give women choice. The word is (00:13:34) choice. You have a choice to have a (00:13:37) child or not to have a child now. You (00:13:39) can have a very linear uh almost (00:13:41) masculine feeling career because (00:13:43) masculine careers were linear. They (00:13:46) could be linear, right? And so you can (00:13:48) do that and not have children and you (00:13:50) can still have a very fulfilling life. (00:13:52) And I don't encourage people to have (00:13:54) children if they don't want to care for (00:13:55) children. And so many years before me, (00:13:57) Penelopey Leech said, "If you don't want (00:13:59) to care for your children, don't have (00:14:01) them." Right? And that still stands (00:14:03) today. Um, you don't have to have (00:14:06) children to have um a a good life. You (00:14:09) can have a wonderful generative life (00:14:10) with being generative in other ways. But (00:14:13) if you're going to bring a soul into (00:14:15) this world, you are responsible for that (00:14:17) person. You are responsible that you get (00:14:20) them from point A to point B and and (00:14:22) help them to be as healthy as possible. (00:14:24) and that is your responsibility. Um, and (00:14:27) so we haven't really talked about (00:14:29) responsibility to parents because we're (00:14:31) so fixed on talking about personal (00:14:33) freedom, but the reality is you are not (00:14:35) going to raise healthy children if you (00:14:37) don't grasp and take joy in the (00:14:40) responsibility. So I can only use my (00:14:43) father as an example. My father took (00:14:45) such great joy in being a father, you (00:14:48) know, caring for us, providing for us, (00:14:51) providing for my mother so she could (00:14:53) look after us. It gave him such pleasure (00:14:56) to care for us. It wasn't a burden. He (00:14:58) didn't opine about how hard it was. And (00:15:01) he didn't feel competitive with my (00:15:03) mother to stay home and, you know, he (00:15:06) just felt such joy and pleasure in (00:15:08) caring for his family. And my mother (00:15:10) felt great joy and pleasure in caring (00:15:12) for us. And so what's happened to the (00:15:15) world that both men and women feel so (00:15:18) angry and resentful and burdened um and (00:15:23) uncomfortable with the role of being (00:15:25) parents? (00:15:27) What has happened to the world? Well, I (00:15:29) mean, I think we haven't been honest. I (00:15:31) think there's a lot we haven't been (00:15:32) honest with you. We haven't been honest (00:15:36) about the fact that having a child and (00:15:38) raising a child is much harder than we (00:15:41) tell them. And we should tell them. So (00:15:43) for instance, you should tell parents (00:15:45) you will not sleep for 5 years. Period. (00:15:48) And that way they won't sleep train (00:15:50) their children and destroy their (00:15:51) children's brain cells. I mean I can (00:15:53) tell you right now it is devastating (00:15:55) when parents come into me and say I (00:15:58) sleep train my child and my child has (00:16:00) never been the same emotionally, (00:16:02) neurologically. You are basically tell (00:16:04) our audience, Erica, because this is (00:16:06) something I I have some horrifying (00:16:08) stories just anecdotally of people the (00:16:10) things people say and they don't even (00:16:11) understand what they're saying. I a (00:16:13) friend of mine said to me, "Oh, we're (00:16:14) just sleep training our baby and he gave (00:16:17) himself a nose bleed and you know and (00:16:20) but explain to people what is sleep (00:16:21) training? Why is it bad for kids and and (00:16:24) all of that? Here's the truth. If you've (00:16:26) been putting off sorting out your (00:16:28) health, stop. You're not 22 anymore. (00:16:31) Look at you." It's a disgrace. Whether (00:16:34) it's hair loss, low energy, or issues in (00:16:37) the bedroom, manual makes it easy to (00:16:39) take control of your health without the (00:16:41) awkwardness. You answer a few questions (00:16:43) online. A UK-based GP reviews your (00:16:46) answers. And if any one of their (00:16:48) treatments are right for you, they send (00:16:50) it discreetly to your door. No waiting (00:16:52) rooms, no embarrassment. I've tried it (00:16:54) myself, and it's brilliantly simple. 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And we (00:17:49) tell them not only that it's okay, but (00:17:51) it's ideal. Right? Because what we're (00:17:53) valuing is parents comfort over (00:17:56) children's comfort. In the first year in (00:17:59) particular, children's comfort has to (00:18:02) come first, not parents comfort. Um, and (00:18:05) so this is the myth that we teach (00:18:07) parents that you can have children and (00:18:10) nothing will change. You can have (00:18:12) children and your comfort will never be (00:18:15) disrupted. It's not painful. It will (00:18:18) everything will stay the same. And this (00:18:20) is a lie. When you have a baby, well, (00:18:23) you have a baby. I don't know if you (00:18:24) have a baby, okay? But you have a baby. (00:18:26) Look at my face. This is what you look (00:18:27) like. 2 and 1/2 years of no sleep. Look (00:18:30) at me. And five is the number. So, you (00:18:33) know, when you have a baby, I thought (00:18:34) this was going to be a depressing (00:18:35) episode anyway, but now it's got (00:18:36) personal. But thank you, Eric. When you (00:18:38) have a baby, everything changes. (00:18:41) Everything changes. And so, we do not (00:18:44) tell people that. We need to tell young (00:18:46) people, but it changes for the good if (00:18:49) you're healthy. So what I say to mothers (00:18:52) is giving birth is a psychotic event, (00:18:56) right? You have this little person (00:18:57) moving a little alien coming out of your (00:19:00) body in the most dramatic bloody scene. (00:19:03) If you've watched the birth of your (00:19:04) child, yet it's beautiful, right? How do (00:19:07) we say? But it's absolutely beautiful, (00:19:09) but it's very dramatic. So not literally (00:19:12) it's literally not beautiful at all but (00:19:15) metaphorically when that you could say (00:19:17) that a door opens when a woman gives (00:19:19) birth. Yes. That door is either opened (00:19:23) to a past of a joyful loving (00:19:27) relationship with her mother and father (00:19:29) particularly her mother um or a a (00:19:34) painful one. So that door can be it's (00:19:37) like Alice in Wonderland. That door can (00:19:38) be either a door to a loving, attentive, (00:19:43) um, connected past, in which case the (00:19:46) moment of looking at your baby is the (00:19:48) most joyful experience because you're (00:19:51) connecting with your loving mother in (00:19:53) that moment. If however you were your (00:19:56) mother was depressed, narcissistic, (00:19:59) absent, resentful, angry, abusive, the (00:20:03) door that opens that may have been (00:20:05) closed for many years because we say (00:20:07) repression is a great defense if it (00:20:08) lasts a lifetime. You basically forget (00:20:11) you get amnesia. When that door opens, (00:20:14) all of the amnesia is let loose, right? (00:20:16) All of the memories are let loose of a (00:20:19) painful childhood. And that's when (00:20:21) postpartum depression sets in. You could (00:20:24) say that the hormones connected with (00:20:26) having a baby um will either uh motivate (00:20:31) those happy feelings or motivate those (00:20:35) very very severely depressed feelings. (00:20:38) Um and it depends on your childhood. (00:20:40) Well, Erica, so just to be clear, uh (00:20:43) what you're saying is women are more (00:20:45) likely to have postpartum depression if (00:20:47) their childhood was suboptimal. Let's (00:20:49) put Absolutely. if the if the (00:20:51) relationship with their mother was (00:20:52) either full of conflict or if they had a (00:20:55) depressed mother or a narcissistic (00:20:57) mother, if they were neglected or abused (00:20:59) in any way uh emotionally and or (00:21:02) physically. Um the door that opens is (00:21:05) that door. That's interesting. It maps (00:21:08) onto something very very I'm not an (00:21:10) expert obviously but I've been saying (00:21:12) whenever people ask me I'm like whatever (00:21:14) skill you lack or whatever you haven't (00:21:16) worked out before you have a baby like (00:21:18) if you don't know how to drive if you (00:21:19) don't have to do this if you don't have (00:21:20) to do your taxes like learn that before (00:21:22) you have kids cuz the amount of time you (00:21:24) have is going to go through the floor (00:21:25) and stuff will come up that's (00:21:27) unprocessed right y I mean I can tell (00:21:29) you some other lies that we tell parents (00:21:32) okay well the quality versus quantity (00:21:34) time there's no such thing as quality (00:21:36) time if you want to raise healthy (00:21:37) children, you need quantity time. Okay, (00:21:39) but there's a myth that we're telling (00:21:41) women, which is that they can have (00:21:42) children later if they freeze their (00:21:44) eggs. It's a crazy myth. Um, and some of (00:21:48) them can and some of them can't. So, um, (00:21:51) my son's girlfriend, um, is is working (00:21:54) in a law firm and, um, the law firm has (00:21:58) said basically they will pay for the (00:22:00) freezing of eggs to women and it's a (00:22:02) manipulative way of getting them to work (00:22:04) many, many more years intensely. and (00:22:06) they said, "Don't worry, you can have a (00:22:08) baby when you're in your 40s." And (00:22:10) what's happening is women are getting to (00:22:12) their 40s and the eggs that they froze (00:22:14) don't necessarily turn into embryos and (00:22:16) the embryos don't necessarily turn into (00:22:18) babies and then they're bereff because (00:22:21) they were lied to. So, we we are telling (00:22:23) a lot of lies um to accommodate to a (00:22:27) narrative that is quite an unhealthy (00:22:30) narrative. (00:22:32) It's that to me seems like the worst (00:22:35) type of lie because that is it. It's (00:22:38) it's it's one thing to lie and it's (00:22:40) another thing to intentionally gaslight (00:22:43) an entire gender, many of whom (00:22:46) desperately want children and you are (00:22:49) selling them down the river so that you (00:22:52) can make more money out of them. Well, (00:22:53) that's that's that was my thought. I I (00:22:55) almost fell on the floor when I heard (00:22:56) that. So, that that was my thought, too. (00:22:59) But that's tragic, Eric. It is tragic. (00:23:01) It is tragic. There are a lot of lies (00:23:03) that we're telling that are tragic. I (00:23:05) mean, you know, even just the lie I (00:23:06) mentioned of nothing changes. No, (00:23:08) everything changes. And and in a good (00:23:10) way. Um, you know, having a baby, as you (00:23:14) know, is the most joyful experience. But (00:23:17) it's also painful because, you know, in (00:23:19) Judaism, we say there is no joy without (00:23:21) pain. There is no light without dark. um (00:23:24) the the the pain helps us to appreciate (00:23:27) the beauty of things and the joy of (00:23:29) things. So, you know, this idea that if (00:23:31) I'm a little uncomfortable, then it's (00:23:33) all about me is part of and and again, (00:23:37) I'm not blaming the younger generations. (00:23:39) Let me say that. What I am blaming is (00:23:42) societal political movements that (00:23:45) created a narrative that um caregiving (00:23:49) is not valuable and that everything else (00:23:53) that involved career um making money and (00:23:57) materialism (00:23:58) uh high achievement and fame that (00:24:01) success was defined in such a way that (00:24:04) it it became perverse and that's I blame (00:24:07) the fragility of our young people and (00:24:09) the fact that they're breaking down on (00:24:11) the fact that the adults in the room (00:24:13) were not doing their job. (00:24:16) That's something that I wanted to talk (00:24:18) about because when I was a teacher, I (00:24:19) worked in very socioeconomically (00:24:22) deprived areas, incredibly deprived in (00:24:26) East London, a couple of miles away from (00:24:27) here, which is some of the the way that (00:24:30) kids were raised is heartbreaking. And (00:24:32) one of the things I noticed was the (00:24:35) profound effect not having a father (00:24:38) Yeah. in the home and the damage it did (00:24:41) to children, boys and girls, but in very (00:24:44) different ways. So, can we talk about (00:24:46) that a little bit because I feel this is (00:24:47) really important. So, my original (00:24:49) intention was to write a book about (00:24:51) motherhood and fatherhood. But when I (00:24:53) really wrote my book about motherhood, I (00:24:55) looked out there and there were so many (00:24:56) people that were writing books about (00:24:57) fatherhood that were wonderful. So, I (00:24:59) felt I you know in in that space it had (00:25:01) been covered. But I can tell you what is (00:25:04) so important. People like Alan Shore and (00:25:06) Richard Reeves and um Will and Warren (00:25:09) Ferrell have written books about about (00:25:11) um fatherhood and how important it is. (00:25:13) But basically the reason fatherhood is (00:25:15) so so very important is that fathers do (00:25:19) something very different than mothers. (00:25:21) So mothers provide sensitive empathic (00:25:23) nurturing soothing babies in distress (00:25:26) helping to regulate sadness, fear um and (00:25:29) and so we we know that right? Fathers (00:25:32) regulate (00:25:34) excitement, aggression, and if you don't (00:25:37) and impulsivity. If you don't have a (00:25:39) father present enough, then little boys (00:25:42) in particular, but little girls too, (00:25:44) don't learn to regulate impulsive (00:25:46) feelings. They don't learn to regulate (00:25:48) excitement. They don't learn to regulate (00:25:50) aggression. And what's been found is (00:25:52) when fathers don't live in the home, (00:25:53) little boys are far more aggressive, far (00:25:56) more impulsive than when there's a (00:25:58) father around. Fathers model how you (00:26:01) regulate angry feelings. A healthy (00:26:03) father, how you regulate aggression. Um, (00:26:07) fathers also uh, you know, they're (00:26:09) they're responsible for separation. So, (00:26:11) I always say mothers are really good at (00:26:12) attachment security. But if a father (00:26:15) isn't present to do what we call playful (00:26:19) tactile stimulation which encourages (00:26:21) little boys and little girls but (00:26:23) particularly little boys to explore to (00:26:25) explore the world because otherwise they (00:26:28) have a very hard time leaving the (00:26:30) attachment secure object. Right? So the (00:26:33) idea is that fathers help to seduce the (00:26:36) their their children away from the (00:26:38) mothers. And so it's a great duo. It's (00:26:41) like a great team. It's teamwork. think (00:26:43) that it took thousands of years (00:26:46) evolutionarily to create a system where (00:26:49) males and females were were a team, (00:26:52) right? They didn't do the same thing (00:26:53) because think about it, we don't have (00:26:55) companies that are successful with (00:26:57) co-CEOs. Do you know one company that (00:26:59) has (00:27:00) co-CEOs? So, what we've created is a (00:27:03) competitive (00:27:04) uh environment for men and women where (00:27:06) they're competing against one another (00:27:08) rather than complimenting one another. (00:27:11) And that is one of the real tragedies of (00:27:14) society where men and women now see each (00:27:17) other as competition. They do. It's now (00:27:19) seen as a battle of the sexes. And (00:27:22) because of many different types of (00:27:24) political movement and narratives that (00:27:26) have been been put into place in social (00:27:28) media, there now seems to be a (00:27:30) fundamental distrust particularly in Gen (00:27:32) Z between males and females. And you (00:27:35) think to yourself, watching the (00:27:36) discourse that happens online, now I (00:27:38) know that online isn't the real world, (00:27:40) but it still has a very profound effect, (00:27:43) you go, how are we meant to have happy, (00:27:46) healthy relationships when the (00:27:48) prevailing feeling is one of mutual (00:27:51) distrust between the genders? That is a (00:27:54) recipe for disaster, isn't it? Well, it (00:27:55) is a recipe for disaster and and the (00:27:57) relationships are showing what a (00:27:59) disaster it is. I mean, um, it it's (00:28:02) interesting because (00:28:04) in raising women up, which we needed to (00:28:08) do because women were downtrodden at (00:28:10) some point, in raising women up, we (00:28:12) denigrated men. So, you could say that (00:28:14) it was a very important movement, but we (00:28:16) didn't know when to stop. We sort of (00:28:18) overshot our mark. Um and so men are (00:28:21) diminished now, boys are diminished now (00:28:23) to the extent that I think 60% of (00:28:26) undergrad students are women in graduate (00:28:28) schools as well. And the statistics say (00:28:31) that women will marry at their (00:28:34) educational level or above, men at their (00:28:36) educational level or below. And what's (00:28:39) happening is that uh men and women are (00:28:41) not coming together because women are (00:28:43) not choosing. You know, in most mammals (00:28:46) and some birds, the women choose. And so (00:28:48) women are not choosing the men because (00:28:51) they're not as educated, they're not as (00:28:53) successful, they're not making as much (00:28:54) money. And so then you have this entire (00:28:57) population of women who are having (00:29:00) children on their own as single mothers, (00:29:01) what we call single mothers by choice (00:29:03) because they say they don't want to be (00:29:04) with any of the men. So in overshooting (00:29:07) our mark um even in nursery school in (00:29:10) New York where my kids went to a nursery (00:29:12) school they when they did the admissions (00:29:15) to the schools they said well we have to (00:29:18) balance our class that was their way of (00:29:20) saying we were going to take half boys (00:29:21) and half girls that was their way of (00:29:23) saying we're going to I mean they (00:29:24) balanced it in other ways too alpha kids (00:29:26) and beta kids and but mostly it was half (00:29:29) girls and half boys and the idea was you (00:29:31) kept the balance because you needed to (00:29:33) keep the balance. So, you know, again, I (00:29:36) think so things the scales need to be (00:29:39) rebalanced because we are educating (00:29:42) little boys like little girls. We're (00:29:44) putting them in classrooms expecting (00:29:45) them to sit in circle time quietly for (00:29:48) for um you know 20 30 40 minutes. They (00:29:51) can't do that. Little boys are not (00:29:53) programmed to sit quietly. So, we're (00:29:55) trying to educate boys like girls. And (00:29:57) then boys are getting frustrated. Boys (00:29:59) are not successful. They're developing (00:30:02) attentional issues because it's a sign (00:30:04) of stress and they're labeled and now (00:30:06) they're on a marginalized path and so (00:30:09) they don't do as well in school. Right? (00:30:11) So from the very beginning we are (00:30:14) mistreating boys. Now the other thing I (00:30:16) just quickly want to say is that boys (00:30:19) neurologically are more fragile than (00:30:21) girls from birth from in uterero. So (00:30:24) some of the reason they say there's a (00:30:25) higher rate of autism in boys is because (00:30:28) the stress in uterero affects boys more (00:30:30) than girls. But when they come out you (00:30:33) you know the the statistic is that there (00:30:35) are more boys born in the world but more (00:30:38) girls survive because the boys don't (00:30:40) survive. So we know that neurologically (00:30:44) boys are more fragile. They're more (00:30:45) susceptible to stress. They're more (00:30:47) sensitive to stress. So we are (00:30:50) diminishing our boys who then become (00:30:52) men. they are now diminished. They (00:30:54) develop more depression, more anxiety, (00:30:56) and those the men and women aren't (00:30:59) pairing like they used to. And there's (00:31:02) something else as well. There's I don't (00:31:04) know if this I I presume it's the same (00:31:06) in the States, but there was a piece of (00:31:07) educational research in the UK that (00:31:10) really struck me, which is we discipline (00:31:12) our boys far harsher than we do our (00:31:14) girls. A boy, if he does something, is (00:31:17) far more likely to to get more harshly (00:31:21) punished for the same misdemeanor than a (00:31:23) girl is. That's that's probably true. (00:31:26) Again, and the absence of fathers who (00:31:29) help their boys to understand (00:31:31) appropriate behavior and ways of (00:31:33) channeling and sublimating their (00:31:35) aggression, you know, channeling it (00:31:36) appropriately means that boys are (00:31:38) growing up more aggressive and more out (00:31:40) of control with more behavioral (00:31:42) problems. Um and so yeah, that is that (00:31:46) is uh a problem in society. We are we (00:31:48) are seeing boys as um as we're not (00:31:52) really understanding the sensitivity (00:31:54) issue in boys. Do you think that's (00:31:56) wrong, Erica? And I'm just playing (00:31:57) devil's advocate perhaps, but I kind of (00:31:59) understand why you might be a little bit (00:32:01) stricter with boys because if you were (00:32:04) if effectively if you were training a (00:32:06) gorilla or a chihuahua like there would (00:32:08) be a difference to how you put how you (00:32:10) treated their expressions of aggression (00:32:12) because a gorilla can do a lot more (00:32:13) damage. Do you see what I'm saying? (00:32:15) Yeah. So the best way to the word (00:32:18) discipline actually comes from the word (00:32:20) disciple. (00:32:21) It means to teach by example. It doesn't (00:32:24) mean to punish. there's no punishment in (00:32:26) there. And so even the choice that of (00:32:29) the word punishment I think is (00:32:31) meaningful because in society we think (00:32:32) of regulating aggression is punishment. (00:32:34) But in fact regulating aggression is (00:32:36) fathers teaching their sons how to (00:32:39) behave. How do you handle anger? Daddy, (00:32:42) how do you handle your aggressive (00:32:44) feelings? What do you do? Well, son, I (00:32:46) go out and I kick a ball around and I (00:32:48) play basketball and, you know, and I, (00:32:50) you know, play the drums and, you know, (00:32:53) um, so it there's the the absence of (00:32:56) fathers is a detriment to boys because (00:32:59) boys don't learn how to regulate their (00:33:02) aggression in other ways than (00:33:03) punishment. Punishment should always be (00:33:06) a last resort when you're raising (00:33:08) children. You're modeling. You're (00:33:10) modeling behavior. You're teaching. (00:33:12) That's one of your main roles as a (00:33:14) parent is as a teacher. Um, so imagine (00:33:18) if you hired a teacher Mhm. to teach (00:33:23) emotional regulation, to teach (00:33:25) resilience to stress, to teach um (00:33:29) appropriate behavior, to teach values, (00:33:31) but they only showed up one and a half (00:33:33) hours a day. The Pew Research did a um a (00:33:36) piece of research that said that in (00:33:38) America uh parents are spending about 90 (00:33:42) minutes a day with their children. (00:33:44) So, can you imagine if you hired a (00:33:46) teacher to teach your children, but they (00:33:47) only showed up 90 minutes a day? How how (00:33:50) well would your children be raised? (00:33:53) And Erica, we've obviously talked a lot (00:33:55) about mothers and where society (00:33:57) encourages them to go wrong and how we (00:33:59) might, you know, modify that if in an (00:34:01) ideal world. What about fathers? because (00:34:03) you know I'm a father. Uh I also have a (00:34:05) career. I'm trying to do things in the (00:34:08) world as you are and provide for my (00:34:09) family and balance all of those. And you (00:34:11) know I would say on a working day I (00:34:14) probably spend about an hour an hour and (00:34:16) a half with my son and then on the (00:34:17) weekend I try to be around a lot more. (00:34:20) Should you know if you if someone's (00:34:22) listening to it in a similar position (00:34:24) they may be really desperately trying to (00:34:26) provide the opportunity for their (00:34:27) partner to not go to work. They feel (00:34:30) like, you know, in order to make that (00:34:31) happen, I really someone's gonna have to (00:34:32) work here like outside the home, (00:34:35) right? What's the right way for a dad to (00:34:37) be in the modern world? What's the (00:34:38) healthy way for a dad to behave? Well, (00:34:40) listen, the traditional way was that um (00:34:43) very young children under the age of (00:34:44) three had a primary attachment figure (00:34:47) present. And fathers spent as much time (00:34:50) as they could with children um with that (00:34:53) playful physical playful tactile (00:34:55) stimulation, throwing the baby up in the (00:34:56) air, tickling the baby, chasing the baby (00:34:58) around. That's a way to help teach (00:35:00) children about um regulation of of (00:35:03) aggression. Um and and what I say is (00:35:06) more is more. And and I'll leave it at (00:35:08) that and say more is more. The more you (00:35:10) can be there, the better. But there are (00:35:11) also the realities of life that you have (00:35:13) to earn a living. And if you're a team (00:35:15) and you're doing tag team and you're (00:35:17) making more money so your wife can stay (00:35:18) home. What I would say is if you're a (00:35:20) father of a little boy, but even a (00:35:22) little girl, but even more of a little (00:35:24) boy, um you need to save time every (00:35:28) single day. So fathers get into a (00:35:30) mindset and they say, "Well, I'm I'm (00:35:32) gone before they wake up in the morning (00:35:34) and well, I have an hour at the end of (00:35:36) the day with my son." What I would say (00:35:38) is that's probably not enough. M um and (00:35:41) if you're going to work that hard and (00:35:42) you come home and you you only have an (00:35:45) hour with your son, you need to leave (00:35:46) more time for that play, right? So you (00:35:49) can play basketball with the little mini (00:35:51) basketball hoop in their room or so you (00:35:53) can wrestle and your wife can yell at (00:35:55) you because you're overstimulating the (00:35:57) baby and that's all part of it, right? (00:35:59) So um more is more and that doesn't mean (00:36:01) that you have to be there every single (00:36:03) minute of the day with the mother. (00:36:05) Otherwise then you're not a team. Then (00:36:06) you're competing. Um but but more is (00:36:09) more. I won't be offended if you're like (00:36:11) Constantine, you're a father, like (00:36:12) you need to be there three hours a day. (00:36:14) I'm I'm interested in what you as an (00:36:16) expert in this would say is a healthy (00:36:19) correct amount. So what's really healthy (00:36:21) is to be there at transitional times as (00:36:23) much as possible. So transitional times (00:36:25) meaning yes waking up in the morning um (00:36:28) if you can going to school but a lot of (00:36:30) fathers aren't around for that. Um and (00:36:33) at the end of the day when they're kind (00:36:35) of taking off their Mr. Rogers was a TV (00:36:38) show in America, Fred Rogers. And he had (00:36:40) this way of coming into his studio and (00:36:43) he would take off his street clothes and (00:36:45) he would put on his sweater, his Mr. (00:36:47) Rogers sweater. In America, this was a (00:36:49) educational television for children. He (00:36:51) was wonderful. The idea is when you come (00:36:54) home and you take off your street (00:36:55) clothes and you put on your dad clothes, (00:36:58) um, you know, it's it's being there as (00:37:00) much as you possibly can for your son at (00:37:03) transitional times. Waking up, going to (00:37:06) sleep, but before going to sleep, you (00:37:08) need to leave at least an hour, if not (00:37:10) two hours. So, in the 1950s, everybody (00:37:13) ranks on the 1950s, and I understand (00:37:15) why, but Leave It to Beaver was a TV (00:37:17) show in America where the dad came home (00:37:20) every day at 5:30 and was there for the (00:37:23) baseball games of the kids and, you (00:37:25) know, ate dinner and they watched TV (00:37:27) together, they went for a walk around (00:37:29) the block together, whatever they did, (00:37:31) right? So that time which is (00:37:34) transitioning from your day to your (00:37:36) evening and then transitioning from your (00:37:38) evening to your bath time and your bath (00:37:40) time to your bedtime and your bedtime to (00:37:42) sleep. Those are transitions. The more (00:37:44) transitions you can be there for, the (00:37:46) better. Well, that's what I do. So we (00:37:47) usually have breakfast together before I (00:37:49) go and then the evening I come home. We (00:37:51) play around. We have dinner and then (00:37:53) bath time and bedtime. That's right. And (00:37:56) what I would say is don't get so fixed (00:37:57) on your children needing a lot of sleep. (00:38:00) if you haven't been able to be there (00:38:01) during the day, whether you're a woman (00:38:02) or a man, um you need to extend their (00:38:06) day. I mean, you know, the expression in (00:38:08) my field is it's either front-loaded or (00:38:10) backloaded. They need what they need and (00:38:12) they're going to get what they need. And (00:38:14) so parents will say, "Oh, my child's so (00:38:15) hard to go to sleep after I come home (00:38:17) from work." I'm like, because they (00:38:19) haven't seen you all day, and they're (00:38:21) going to get what they need from you at (00:38:23) the end of the day if they didn't get it (00:38:25) during the day. So, don't be so rigid. (00:38:28) Uh, as parents, if you work, don't be (00:38:30) rigid about their their when they go to (00:38:32) sleep. Uh, meaning, you know, you can't (00:38:34) you can't come home from a long day of (00:38:36) work, spend an hour with your child and (00:38:38) then put them to sleep. They're going to (00:38:40) just say no because they need you. So, (00:38:43) keep them up a little longer and um give (00:38:45) them more before they go to sleep. So, (00:38:47) we talked about the lies we tell women (00:38:49) and mothers. What are the lies we tell (00:38:51) men and fathers? (00:38:53) Capitalism is evil. You hear that all (00:38:56) the time these days in internet clips, (00:38:58) on TV, even in real life. But has anyone (00:39:01) actually explained what capitalism is or (00:39:03) why it's responsible for the greatest (00:39:05) increase in human prosperity the world (00:39:07) has ever seen? Hillsdale College is (00:39:09) offering a fantastic free online course (00:39:12) called Understanding Capitalism, and (00:39:14) I've been watching it myself. I found (00:39:16) that the course does an incredible job (00:39:18) of making complex concepts like the (00:39:20) market economy understandable. In just (00:39:22) seven lectures, you'll learn how (00:39:24) capitalism works with human nature, why (00:39:26) it relies on freedom and private (00:39:28) property, and why it's actually a system (00:39:30) that rewards virtue and responsibility, (00:39:33) not greed. And this is just one of over (00:39:35) 40 free online courses Hillsdale College (00:39:38) offers. You can learn about the US (00:39:40) Constitution, the Book of Genesis, the (00:39:41) Roman Republic, even the history of the (00:39:44) ancient Christian church. Go right now (00:39:46) to hillsdale.edu/trigger (00:39:48) edu/trigger to enroll in this course, (00:39:51) Understanding Capitalism. There's no (00:39:53) cost and it's easy to get started. (00:39:55) That's (00:39:57) hillsdale.edu/trigger to enroll for (00:39:59) free. One more time, that's (00:40:00) hillsdale.edu/trigger. (00:40:04) Well, I think we tell men and fathers (00:40:06) today that their wives nothing will (00:40:08) change and their professional wives will (00:40:10) always be big earners and successful and (00:40:13) be partners economically and you can get (00:40:15) the bigger house and you can get the (00:40:17) bigger car and you can take fancy big, (00:40:18) you know, and we're telling parents that (00:40:20) that there's going to be no change and (00:40:22) we tell men that too. Um, and and you (00:40:25) know, and we also tell them that (00:40:27) mothering is insignificant. It's not (00:40:30) valuable work and some someone who you (00:40:32) pay uh very little to and have less (00:40:35) respect for will do just fine. What I (00:40:38) call the myth of any caregiver will do (00:40:40) which is a real myth. And so we tell (00:40:43) that to young men too who then grow into (00:40:45) fathers and then they're angry at their (00:40:47) wives for wanting to stay home. So what (00:40:50) I would say is don't promise each other (00:40:54) anything. Know that everything will (00:40:56) change. Say we're not making any (00:40:58) promises. We have to see how we feel (00:41:00) when this baby is born. And I may want (00:41:02) to stay home. And for the father to say, (00:41:05) look, let's let's create a financial (00:41:08) plan for us for the next few years where (00:41:09) if you do want to stay home or if you (00:41:11) only want to work part-time, we can (00:41:14) manage it. So that's the myth. We tell (00:41:17) them nothing will change economically (00:41:19) and any other way. (00:41:21) And one of the most heartbreaking (00:41:24) statistics I've read is that most (00:41:25) marriages, and maybe I'm wrong on this, (00:41:27) so correct me if I am. Most marriages (00:41:29) break up, I think it's two years after (00:41:31) having a child. (00:41:33) How why is that? Hard mate. (00:41:38) Sorry. That's right. I'm with him. I'm (00:41:41) with him. So So the idea So the test of (00:41:44) one's resilience is if you can manage (00:41:47) hard. If you're going to climb Mount (00:41:50) Everest and you go into it with the (00:41:52) expectation that you're going to climb a (00:41:55) little hill in the Yorkshire (00:41:57) countryside, okay, um you're going to (00:42:00) collapse pretty much. You know, you're (00:42:02) not going to have brought the right (00:42:03) equipment. You're not going to have (00:42:06) prepared and trained for it. Um, but if (00:42:08) you tell them, "Look, the view from up (00:42:11) there, it's the best in the world. But (00:42:14) to get there, you've got to go through a (00:42:16) lot of hardship, but you can do it. (00:42:18) We're going to train you. We're going to (00:42:20) get you ready, and you know, you're not (00:42:22) going to sleep, but it's going to be (00:42:23) great because the joyful moments will be (00:42:25) more joy and love than you've ever felt (00:42:27) in your life, but then there's going to (00:42:28) be these terrible moments where you're (00:42:29) exhausted." If we tell you and you have (00:42:33) realistic (00:42:34) expectations, then you can manage it (00:42:36) together, right? If we tell men and (00:42:40) women lies about raising children, then (00:42:43) when they have children, they collapse. (00:42:46) And what what are these because we're (00:42:49) talking about these lies that we tell, (00:42:52) but what what are the what are the real (00:42:54) brutal truths of raising kids? (00:42:57) That it's the most amazing joyful thing (00:43:01) you'll ever do. That the love for your (00:43:03) child is is the greatest love you will (00:43:06) ever feel for anyone. You know, people (00:43:08) say, "Oh, but I have romantic love." (00:43:10) Nah, it's not. I love my husband with (00:43:13) all my might, but it doesn't it pales in (00:43:16) comparison to my love for my children. (00:43:18) And he would stay he would say the same (00:43:20) thing. And so it's not the same kind of (00:43:24) love, right? So so I think we're we're (00:43:26) doing young people a great disservice by (00:43:29) not being honest about how joyful it can (00:43:32) be, but how hard it can be. It is really (00:43:36) hard. But you know hardship was never (00:43:39) something that human beings were afraid (00:43:42) of in the past. We've become soft in a (00:43:45) way. We be we've l we lack resilience (00:43:48) again and I don't blame young people for (00:43:50) this. I blame the generations who didn't (00:43:54) provide that emotional foundation. And (00:43:56) so there's a lot of research, so much (00:43:58) research about the fact that if you (00:44:00) nurture, if you give to a child in the (00:44:03) first three years, if you're physically (00:44:04) and emotionally present and you make (00:44:06) them feel safe and secure, they can (00:44:10) manage stress and adversity going (00:44:13) forward. It's the the story of the three (00:44:15) little pigs, right? If you build a house (00:44:18) of bricks from the beginning and you're (00:44:20) sensitive and you're present, then that (00:44:23) house cannot be blown down. But if you (00:44:26) build a house of hay or a house of wood (00:44:29) and uh you know put your child in (00:44:31) daycare, have somebody else raise them, (00:44:33) take vacations and leave your child for (00:44:35) a week with granny. I mean crazy stuff I (00:44:37) hear with little little babies with what (00:44:40) I call empathic impairment. They look at (00:44:43) their own babies, these young people, (00:44:44) and they cannot see the vulnerability of (00:44:48) their own children. (00:44:50) And also as (00:44:52) well I I remember I was used see I was (00:44:55) when I was teaching I used to see the (00:44:57) way that moms would be disconnected from (00:45:00) their kids. Yeah. And then you go well (00:45:03) no wonder the kid is acting up in (00:45:06) school. No wonder the kid lashes out (00:45:09) because that fundamental connection (00:45:12) between mother and child or father and (00:45:14) child is just non-existent. (00:45:18) So there is something called an (00:45:19) attachment disorder which is (00:45:21) generationally passed down not (00:45:22) genetically. (00:45:24) What that means is that if you had a (00:45:26) mother who struggled with attachment, (00:45:30) who struggled with deeply connecting, (00:45:33) who struggled with dependency, (00:45:36) um who struggled because her own mother (00:45:39) struggled, right? Um that is passed down (00:45:42) to the next generation through (00:45:44) pathological defenses. So that baby who (00:45:47) is not getting their emotional needs (00:45:49) met, sometimes their physical needs met (00:45:51) by a mother, um will have to develop a (00:45:54) way to cope. Now if you're so little, (00:45:56) those coping mechanisms are not healthy. (00:45:59) They're pathological coping mechanisms (00:46:02) that fall apart. One is called an (00:46:04) avoidant attachment disorder where it's (00:46:06) very hard for that baby to grow up and (00:46:09) trust others and trust love and it's (00:46:13) very hard for them to give over to (00:46:15) really deeply connecting and loving with (00:46:17) others and it often leads to depression (00:46:19) and loneliness. Another attachment (00:46:22) disorder is called the ambivalent (00:46:24) attachment disorder. that baby clings to (00:46:26) their mommy like dear life because they (00:46:29) know and the the narrative is my mommy's (00:46:31) going to leave me again so I just have (00:46:32) to hold on to her and never let her go. (00:46:34) That is a very anxious baby that that (00:46:38) then is correlated with anxiety later (00:46:40) and usually it's an anxious mother (00:46:42) produces that anxious baby. Then there's (00:46:44) the hardest really that is hard for me (00:46:47) to even talk about which is called a (00:46:48) disorganized attachment disorder which (00:46:50) is a baby without a strategy. So, think (00:46:53) of an avoidant attachment disorder and (00:46:55) an ambivalent attachment disorder as (00:46:57) strategies, coping mechanisms for that (00:46:59) baby to cope with not getting their (00:47:02) emotional needs met. Okay? This baby (00:47:04) doesn't have a strategy. A disorganized (00:47:06) attachment baby will cycle through all (00:47:09) the strategies. First, they'll turn away (00:47:11) from the mother. Then, they'll cling to (00:47:14) the mother. Then, they'll slap the (00:47:15) mother out of rage. And then, they'll (00:47:17) circle through. That's correlated with (00:47:19) borderline personality disorders. And we (00:47:21) have a huge uptick in babies without (00:47:24) strategies who develop borderline (00:47:26) personality disorders. We've never seen (00:47:28) so many borderline patients in my field. (00:47:31) So, and let's talk about this because (00:47:34) this is very this is very important (00:47:36) because a borderline personality (00:47:37) disorder just explain it to the audience (00:47:39) because number one, it's very severe and (00:47:41) number two, from what I know of BPD, (00:47:44) it's there is no cure for it. No, (00:47:46) there's treatment but there's no cure. (00:47:48) Um, it's very hard to treat. So it is (00:47:51) someone who never felt safe. Um it is a (00:47:56) baby who really never was provided with (00:47:58) that feeling of safety. So doesn't (00:48:00) really really feel safe in the world and (00:48:02) alternates between uh in excessive (00:48:06) dependency and excessive rage over (00:48:11) dependency. Uh paranoia and persecution. (00:48:14) Feelings of paranoia and persecution and (00:48:16) cycles through these feelings. uh (00:48:19) basically they have a hard time having (00:48:21) relationships, a very hard time. Now, (00:48:23) I've treated borderline patients in my (00:48:25) practice who do get better. They're (00:48:28) never fully better, but they they they (00:48:31) go on to have relationships and have (00:48:33) children, but the treatment is very long (00:48:35) and very hard. It's usually (00:48:37) psychoanalysis. So, you know, they have (00:48:39) DBT therapy, but that just controls (00:48:42) symptoms. But if you're really going to (00:48:44) try to change the character of a person, (00:48:46) it's not easy. So what I say to parents (00:48:48) is you know you have two windows. You (00:48:51) have 0 to three and you have 9 to 25. (00:48:53) You have adolescence. If you miss the (00:48:55) first window, my second book was (00:48:58) originally supposed to be called um (00:49:00) second chances. They renamed it to (00:49:03) raising resilient adolescence in the new (00:49:04) age of anxiety, whatever. But it was (00:49:07) supposed to be called second chances (00:49:08) because these two windows, meaning from (00:49:10) zero to about 25, but once they leave (00:49:13) your house, you don't have much hope. So (00:49:15) 0 to 18, you have a lot of room to try (00:49:19) to repair things. But if you miss that, (00:49:22) then a personality gets set, a character (00:49:25) gets set. And why is it, Erica, that (00:49:28) more women are diagnosed with BPD than (00:49:31) men? Is that just the way that more (00:49:34) women present with those type of (00:49:36) symptoms or is there something else (00:49:37) going on? Oh, there's a lot of men with (00:49:39) borderline personality disorders. I mean (00:49:41) the kids, you know, boys are more (00:49:44) violent with their suicidal attempts and (00:49:46) their selfharming behaviors, but they (00:49:48) have very high rates of borderline (00:49:50) personality now. Um, so yeah, I mean, I (00:49:53) think that was just maybe under recorded (00:49:56) that men have very high rates of self (00:49:58) harming behaviors and and also does (00:50:01) addiction play into this because (00:50:03) addiction is a dissociative. Yes, it is (00:50:05) a dissociative. It's a narcissistic (00:50:07) disorder. So you'd say it it's all about (00:50:11) harm to the self. It's all about um the (00:50:14) lack of development of the part of you. (00:50:17) You know how we talk about core (00:50:18) training, physical core training, right? (00:50:21) Um this is emotional core training. (00:50:24) Yourself is your core. Um and it (00:50:27) develops from the moment you're born. Uh (00:50:30) and and some psychoanalysts even talk (00:50:32) about in uterero, but it develops from (00:50:34) the moment you're born. And it is about (00:50:37) feeling safe and secure and loved and (00:50:40) understood. Those would be the four (00:50:42) things. Safe, secure, loved and (00:50:44) understood. If you have those four (00:50:47) ingredients, then you develop a self. If (00:50:50) you don't have those four ingredients, (00:50:52) either because you feel safe and secure (00:50:55) and loved but not understood, or you (00:50:58) feel loved and understood, but no one (00:51:00) was around, so you never really felt (00:51:01) safe and secure. any of the if any of (00:51:03) those four uh don't quite develop, you (00:51:06) haven't fully developed a self. And that (00:51:08) leads to a compensation. Could say it's (00:51:11) a disorder of deficiency where you're (00:51:13) always trying to fill a void that never (00:51:15) got filled. And drugs, alcohol, sex, (00:51:20) eating, all those addictions, gambling, (00:51:22) pornography, they all try to fill a void (00:51:25) in a person where the self is supposed (00:51:27) to be. And so there are probably people (00:51:30) watching and listening to this that can (00:51:32) spot these types of flaws in themselves. (00:51:36) What should those people do if they're (00:51:38) listening to this? They're going, "Oh my (00:51:41) god." Go get therapy from a (00:51:44) psychoanalytic psychotherapist. A (00:51:46) psycho, we either call ourselves (00:51:47) psychoanalytic or psychonamic (00:51:49) psychotherapist, not a CBT therapist. (00:51:51) CBT therapists are good for what I call (00:51:54) symptom relief, cutting the grass. So if (00:51:58) you have OCD and you want to learn how (00:51:59) to control it or you just want to learn (00:52:01) how to control anxiety rather than (00:52:04) understand the deeper under (00:52:05) underpinnings of it. Um but you know you (00:52:08) can't really heal by just cutting the (00:52:11) grass. You actually got to go to the (00:52:12) roots and see what's going on at the (00:52:14) roots. So what I do with patients is I (00:52:17) really try to understand the origins of (00:52:20) things. So that that would be the way to (00:52:21) define good treatment for someone who's (00:52:24) suffering from these disorders versus (00:52:26) what I consider more negligent (00:52:28) treatment, which is if you're just (00:52:30) giving medication as a psychiatrist or (00:52:32) you're just cutting the grass and (00:52:33) teaching them some behavioral (00:52:35) techniques, you're really not helping (00:52:37) that person at a very deep level um to (00:52:41) both uncover and heal from deep deep (00:52:43) trauma and wounds that that go back a (00:52:46) long time. And because we now seem to (00:52:49) have this overdiagnosis, particularly (00:52:52) unfortunately in Gen Z with things like (00:52:54) ADHD, is that a result of the parental (00:52:57) strategies that you've been talking (00:52:59) about earlier? So you've heard of fight (00:53:02) or flight? Yes. Okay. Fight or flight is (00:53:04) the evolutionary response to stress, (00:53:06) right? The sable tooth tiger was chasing (00:53:08) you. You were running. You were either (00:53:10) fleeing or you stood your ground. You (00:53:11) were fighting. Okay. It's our our (00:53:14) nervous system's way of coping with (00:53:15) threat. And so what we're seeing in (00:53:18) children and one of the things we're (00:53:19) seeing is this huge uptick in children (00:53:22) with fight orflight responses. They're (00:53:24) either incredibly aggressive, more (00:53:26) behavioral problems, particularly in (00:53:28) boys in schools, um biting, kicking, (00:53:31) hitting, you know, and then we see (00:53:34) distractability. Now distractability is (00:53:37) not a disorder. Distractability is a (00:53:39) response to stress. It means that that (00:53:42) child's nervous system is overloaded. (00:53:45) You've overloaded that circuit with (00:53:47) stress. So instead of asking where is (00:53:51) the stress coming from, what can we do (00:53:53) about the stress? What are the (00:53:54) psychosocial stressors that are (00:53:56) contributing to this little boy's (00:53:57) stress? We're just medicating them. What (00:54:00) I call silencing their pain. Diagnose, (00:54:02) medicate, throw them in the bucket. And (00:54:05) now you've you've diagnosed someone and (00:54:07) you've categorized them and you've (00:54:09) marginalized them. Instead of saying (00:54:12) this child is having a stress response, (00:54:15) what's going (00:54:16) on? We don't like to think deeply about (00:54:19) things today. We like to think very (00:54:22) superficially about things and we like a (00:54:24) lot of immediate gratification. Just get (00:54:26) rid of my pain. Give me a pill. I don't (00:54:29) want to think about things. I don't want (00:54:30) to work on things. I don't want to be (00:54:32) uncomfortable. therapy makes me (00:54:34) uncomfortable. Unless you're willing to (00:54:36) be uncomfortable, you're never going to (00:54:37) see the view at the top of Everest. It's (00:54:40) also as well, I think it's because when (00:54:42) you have these things, you are always (00:54:46) just about coping. You're always just (00:54:49) about coping. So every day is a battle (00:54:51) until from the moment you wake up till (00:54:53) you get to bed and you just well I held (00:54:55) it together for this day and hopefully (00:54:58) tomorrow. But one more thing on top of (00:55:00) that feels like this could be the thing (00:55:02) that could absolutely break you. Yeah. (00:55:05) And I think that's a real issue as well (00:55:07) because a lot of people don't (00:55:10) realize how they're only just about (00:55:14) coping and they're not truly aware of (00:55:16) everything that they're dealing with (00:55:18) which isn't normal and isn't actually (00:55:21) comes from the way that you were raised (00:55:22) for instance. Well, I mean I think we we (00:55:26) don't talk about prevention also in our (00:55:29) health care. We talk about the medical (00:55:32) model which is it hurts, go get a pill. (00:55:35) We don't really talk about so parent (00:55:37) education what I do I consider half of (00:55:40) what I do maybe more than half is (00:55:41) prevention right so talking to parents (00:55:44) about what they can do to prevent mental (00:55:46) illness in their children um so we sorry (00:55:49) to interrupt I this is something I (00:55:50) wanted to pick up on in the entire (00:55:52) conversation you're having with Francis (00:55:54) how I I don't want to overstate the case (00:55:56) but how accurate because see most (00:55:58) people's idea about mental health is (00:56:00) like it's a chemical imbalance it's a (00:56:02) thing it's like you know you develop you (00:56:05) develop a physical disease and quite (00:56:07) often it's it's sort of random. It's not (00:56:09) caused by a specific thing that you did (00:56:10) or ate or whatever people will think. (00:56:13) How accurate is it to say in your (00:56:15) opinion that a lot of these things are (00:56:17) literally caused by your childhood? So (00:56:21) there is no genetic precursor for (00:56:23) anxiety and depression. None. There's a (00:56:26) genetic precursor for (00:56:28) schizophrenia and some markers for (00:56:31) bipolar disorder at a very severe level, (00:56:33) but anxiety, depression, ADHD, none. (00:56:38) It's generationally passed down. It is (00:56:40) something through the inheritance of (00:56:42) acquired (00:56:44) characteristics. So the it's the nature (00:56:47) nurture debate, right? And even with (00:56:49) schizophrenia and bipolar, epigenetics (00:56:52) tells us that those genes need to be (00:56:54) turned on. There's no genetic precursor (00:56:56) for depression, anxiety, and ADHD. What (00:56:59) they did find is a genetic marker for a (00:57:02) short alil on your serotonin receptor. (00:57:05) It's called the sensitivity gene. It (00:57:08) means that many children are born more (00:57:10) sensitive to stress and that sensitivity (00:57:14) then is correlated with mental illness (00:57:16) of different kinds. (00:57:18) And more children are born with that (00:57:21) sensitivity gene. That's the only (00:57:22) genetic marker. So it means that we need (00:57:25) to look (00:57:26) at how we're fortifying our children. (00:57:30) You know, we don't have a lot of control (00:57:31) over a lot of things in our children's (00:57:33) lives. I mean, I have grown children and (00:57:35) I can tell you that there is so much (00:57:37) that you can't control for your (00:57:39) children. Um, and so what you want to do (00:57:42) is control for what you can, right? The (00:57:45) serenity prayer. What you can control (00:57:47) for is the early years when you have a (00:57:50) captive audience and they need you and (00:57:54) they're dependent on you and they (00:57:56) require a deep sense of safety and (00:57:59) security and love and understanding. You (00:58:02) can control for that. You build the (00:58:04) foundation of the house that builds that (00:58:07) house of brick that will be more (00:58:09) resilient to adversity in the future. uh (00:58:12) Michael Meanie is a researcher who did (00:58:13) research with animals and found that (00:58:15) animals who licked and groom their young (00:58:18) those animal the babies who are more (00:58:20) resilient to stress in the future than (00:58:22) the babies whose mothers did not and (00:58:25) lick and groom them. So it not only (00:58:28) proved that resilience has everything to (00:58:30) do with early nurturing, but it also (00:58:32) proved that the babies that were licked (00:58:34) and groomed passed down generationally (00:58:36) to the next generation the ability to (00:58:38) lick and groom. the ones who weren't (00:58:39) licked and groomed did not pass down (00:58:42) generationally the gene. If there is, (00:58:44) there's no gene, the the ability to lick (00:58:46) and groom. Well, the reason I bring it (00:58:48) up is I I think it's helpful for parents (00:58:51) like my like me to to say, you know, um (00:58:55) these things that you're sacrificing (00:58:57) for. These are the things that you're (00:58:59) avoiding. And I think if it was stated (00:59:01) in that more direct language, frankly, a (00:59:03) lot of people would would have a (00:59:05) stronger sense of like this is an (00:59:06) important thing to do. You know, none of (00:59:09) the things that I say are based in (00:59:11) opinion. So, I'm a clinician. I see a (00:59:14) lot of patients a week still. This is (00:59:16) the main part of my life. Um, and I see (00:59:19) them all over the world now, you know, (00:59:21) and have been for a while. But I see a (00:59:23) lot of patients. Um, but I I'll say (00:59:26) that, you know, we are not being totally (00:59:31) honest with patients about and and (00:59:33) parents about what causes mental (00:59:37) illness. We are telling them lies about, (00:59:40) you know, it being genetic, about it not (00:59:42) being your fault, about you're not (00:59:44) responsible. There's the word (00:59:45) responsibility. Again, I'm going to say (00:59:47) something that sounds truly harsh, and I (00:59:49) don't mean it to be, but it's the truth. (00:59:52) Um, and as my rabbi says, always tell (00:59:54) the truth and be authentic and you can (00:59:56) never go wrong. So, I'm going to tell (00:59:58) the truth. You are responsible for your (01:00:00) children's mental (01:00:02) illness. As a parent, you are (01:00:04) responsible. Now, that doesn't mean that (01:00:08) um and and how are you responsible? (01:00:11) You're responsible for those early (01:00:13) beginnings that help them to be more (01:00:16) resilient to adversity and stress in the (01:00:18) future because you cannot predict what (01:00:20) will come their way. But what you can do (01:00:23) for them is provide them with that early (01:00:25) early beginning. (01:00:28) Erica. Yeah. So, so we've talked about a (01:00:32) number of different things. Is there (01:00:34) What about addiction? Because we had uh (01:00:37) a gentleman by the name of Dr. David Nut (01:00:39) who's a neuropharmacologist and he said (01:00:41) that the number one prediction for (01:00:43) addiction in children is having an (01:00:46) alcoholic (01:00:47) father that that's that is the (01:00:49) inheritance of acquired characteristics (01:00:52) that is generational expression of (01:00:55) disease not genetic expression and there (01:00:58) are several things we discovered that (01:01:00) predispose you to becoming an alcoholic (01:01:02) and the first one is having an alcoholic (01:01:04) father so there's clearly genetics but (01:01:07) we can go further than than that now. (01:01:08) And in fact, we we know that that (01:01:10) vulnerability is in part due to brain (01:01:13) chemistry. And it's kind of paradoxical, (01:01:16) but people who who are start off being (01:01:20) resistant to alcohol, the people that (01:01:22) can stay sober or stay stay standing (01:01:26) after their first binge when all their (01:01:27) friends are on the floor, they're often (01:01:30) they've got alcoholic fathers and and so (01:01:32) they're they're like pre-tolerant. Now (01:01:35) they're the super, you know, everyone (01:01:36) thinks, "Oh, he's a amazing guy. look (01:01:37) how much you can drink. But the problem (01:01:40) is they end up drinking more and (01:01:41) becoming eventually become dependent. So (01:01:44) if you have an alcoholic father, it (01:01:46) means that you had a depressed father (01:01:48) because alcoholism is the symptom. The (01:01:50) illness is depression. If you have a (01:01:52) depressed parent, you're more likely to (01:01:54) be depressed unless you get treatment (01:01:56) because you were raised by a parent who (01:01:58) couldn't meet your emotional needs (01:02:01) because they couldn't meet their own (01:02:02) emotional needs because someone didn't (01:02:04) meet their emotional needs. So that's, (01:02:07) you know, I used a quote last year at my (01:02:09) arc speech by Terry Reel about how every (01:02:12) generation has the opportunity to (01:02:13) interrupt (01:02:15) um be a bridge and interrupt the (01:02:18) generational expression of disease in (01:02:20) their families. And that's a (01:02:21) responsibility of the parent. That is a (01:02:23) responsibility of each and every person (01:02:25) that parents that you are self-aware (01:02:28) that you look at yourself that you look (01:02:30) at your parents that you look at what (01:02:32) they did right and what they did wrong (01:02:34) and you learn from it and you go to (01:02:36) therapy if you need help with it and you (01:02:38) become a better (01:02:41) parent. It's always good to be better (01:02:44) than the last generation in one way or (01:02:46) another. We can't always be richer. We (01:02:48) can't always have more. But in one way (01:02:50) or another, we can improve upon our (01:02:52) parents and healthy parents want their (01:02:54) children to improve upon them. (01:02:56) Absolutely. Erica, it's been so great to (01:02:58) have you on. As you know, my wife is (01:03:00) like your number one super fan in the (01:03:01) world. Uh and I can see why. It's been (01:03:04) so great. I hope your message gets uh (01:03:06) further and further as you carry on (01:03:07) doing your important work. Uh we're (01:03:09) going to go to our Substack to ask you (01:03:11) questions from our supporters. Before we (01:03:13) do, we always end with the same (01:03:14) question, which is what's the one thing (01:03:15) we're not talking about that we should (01:03:17) be? Before Erica answers a final (01:03:19) question, at the end of the interview, (01:03:21) make sure to head over to our subsack. (01:03:23) The link is in the description where (01:03:25) you'll be able to see this. Is there any (01:03:28) correlation between leaving parenthood (01:03:30) into late30s and beyond for women and (01:03:32) maybe for men to the seeming rise in (01:03:34) various childhood mental disorders? How (01:03:37) much damage did the COVID lockdown (01:03:39) inflict on children? And do we still see (01:03:42) that after effect today? Do we take (01:03:44) emotional abuse seriously enough or is (01:03:46) it just hard to detect? Is it taken less (01:03:49) seriously when the mother is a (01:03:51) perpetrator and not a male relative? So, (01:03:53) we didn't talk about older children and (01:03:55) adolescence. And I would say the one (01:03:56) thing we're not talking about in society (01:03:58) that we should be talking about is how (01:04:00) marijuana use in adolescence and young (01:04:03) adults is devastating. Um, marijuana has (01:04:07) become addictive and toxic because of (01:04:11) the levels of THC. um 98% in gummies, (01:04:15) 38% in smoking weed. Uh it's not the (01:04:18) marijuana of my generation. Um it wasn't (01:04:21) addictive in my generation, but what (01:04:23) we're not telling people about and (01:04:25) parents about and kids about is that (01:04:27) it's leading it's the number one leading (01:04:29) cause of psychotic breaks in (01:04:32) adolescence. If you go into an emergency (01:04:34) room, uh 80% of the mental health visits (01:04:39) for adolescence will be because of um uh (01:04:42) marijuana induced depersonalization or (01:04:45) psychotic events. And many of those (01:04:47) children are then hospitalized for years (01:04:49) and don't recover for years. And this is (01:04:52) happening every single day. And we don't (01:04:55) talk about it. Why? because it's (01:04:57) economically so fruitful now that (01:04:59) marijuana is is a product that we can (01:05:02) sell. But what we're not saying is um (01:05:05) this the high levels of THC are toxic to (01:05:08) adolescence and are destroying lives and (01:05:11) marijuana should not be legal. It (01:05:14) happened to one to one of my best (01:05:15) friends at university. He I saw him (01:05:18) change from being a very bright, bubbly, (01:05:22) life of the party kind of guy to someone (01:05:23) who became angry, introverted, and (01:05:25) profoundly unwell. I mean, we're not (01:05:28) we're not saying one that it's (01:05:29) addictive, and we're not saying it's (01:05:31) toxic. We've made it into something (01:05:32) benign like going to get a a a beer in (01:05:35) the pub. It is not a beer. It is (01:05:38) incredibly addictive, incredibly toxic, (01:05:40) and it it is literally making kids jump (01:05:43) in front of trains. And if we don't (01:05:45) educate adolescence and we don't educate (01:05:47) parents about this, we are doing a (01:05:49) disservice to families. And by making it (01:05:51) legal, we are really doing a disservice. (01:05:53) So there's the economy over the family. (01:05:57) Do you think is there a point when your (01:05:59) brain is fully developed when you're (01:06:01) more able to deal with it in the same (01:06:03) way as you know if I go and have a (01:06:05) couple of glasses of wine, nobody goes, (01:06:06) "Oh, this is Constantine destroying his (01:06:08) brain." Even though technically it sort (01:06:09) of is. You can still have a breakdown (01:06:11) from the high levels of THC if you're (01:06:13) sensitive, but the brain of an (01:06:15) adolescent is 10 times more responsive (01:06:17) to the chemicals in marijuana or the (01:06:20) chemicals in any drug. So, tenfold (01:06:23) reactions (01:06:25) um because of the dopamine surges. So, (01:06:27) you would say that an adolescent is more (01:06:29) likely to be addicted. Uh there's (01:06:31) research to show that if marijuana or (01:06:34) alcohol is introduced to an adolescent (01:06:36) be before the age of 16, they're much (01:06:38) more likely to become addicted in the (01:06:40) future. Um but because the brain is so (01:06:43) sensitive to these chemicals, they're (01:06:45) also more likely to have psychotic (01:06:46) breaks. So about 25 is that where the is (01:06:49) that where the brain is kind of it (01:06:51) settles the preffrontal cortex is (01:06:54) settled. So that's the part of the brain (01:06:56) that regulates things like judgment, (01:06:58) executive functioning. Um, so you make (01:07:00) better choices after 25. So you might be (01:07:03) able to take a puff of marijuana when (01:07:05) you're 25 and go, "A puff is enough for (01:07:07) me. I'm not going to have anymore." But (01:07:08) when you're 18, 14, 20, 22 even, you (01:07:13) can't stop. You keep taking another puff (01:07:16) and another puff and another puff. So (01:07:18) um, yeah, we're not tell again the lies (01:07:20) we tell. (01:07:23) And this is something that rings very (01:07:26) true for me particularly. That was the (01:07:27) path that I went down for. I lost more (01:07:30) years than I care to remember to that. (01:07:32) But more than you can probably. Exactly. (01:07:37) I speak of someone in a similar Yeah. (01:07:39) And I look at, you know, the periods of (01:07:40) depression and this friend of mine in (01:07:44) particular who I'm thinking of (01:07:46) now and when it comes to schizophrenia (01:07:51) particularly, it can very much trigger (01:07:54) schizophrenic if it's latent within your (01:07:57) within you. But even without (01:07:59) schizophrenia, it's triggering breaks in (01:08:01) kids. So kids who have no gene for (01:08:02) schizophrenia, they're not becoming (01:08:04) schizophrenic, but they're having what (01:08:05) we call depersonalization events, which (01:08:08) is slightly a variation on psychosis. (01:08:11) Um, if I I can describe it to you, you (01:08:14) see the world from a distance through a (01:08:16) glass plate. You don't know what's real. (01:08:18) You can see real, but you're not sure (01:08:20) what's real. Um, it's devastating. It's (01:08:23) um it causes them to go into hysterical (01:08:25) panic states. Um it's it's terrible to (01:08:29) watch the um deterioration of a mind and (01:08:32) and again it's not something that most (01:08:34) kids get over so quickly. Yeah. They go (01:08:36) into an emergency room and many of them (01:08:38) and and end up in hospitals for years (01:08:40) having to withdraw from school and and (01:08:43) we're we're just not being honest. We're (01:08:45) telling them it's benign and we're (01:08:46) telling them that nothing bad will (01:08:48) happen. It's like having a beer. Um and (01:08:50) we're doing this all for the pure (01:08:52) economics of it really. (01:08:55) Erica, Erica, thanks for coming on. (01:08:57) Yeah, thank you. All right, head on over (01:08:58) to our Substack where you'll be able to (01:09:00) see your questions answered. (01:09:04) Does a religious (01:09:05) upbringing/religious community have any (01:09:07) effect on childhood anxiety and (01:09:09) depression? If so, is it helpful or (01:09:11) harmful? 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