Prince Harry Wants Big Tech to Stop Hacking Our Kids’ Brains (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) This one's pretty. This one's heavy, (00:00:02) Harry. Um, (00:00:04) >> because the other ones haven't been. (00:00:05) >> What do you think of this Charlie XCX (00:00:08) Taylor Swift beef? (00:00:10) >> The what? (00:00:11) >> Oh, no. (00:00:12) >> No. This is serious. Cuz was Charlie's (00:00:14) diss track (00:00:15) even a diss track? I mean, to me, (00:00:17) sympathy as a knife was about something (00:00:19) completely different, but then Taylor (00:00:22) comes back and I think escalates it with (00:00:26) the actually romantic thing. And I'm (00:00:30) kind of thinking to myself, is this (00:00:32) fair? (00:00:34) Or did Charlie draw blood and Taylor had (00:00:36) to respond? (00:00:39) [snorts] (00:00:43) >> Sometimes I just think, where do we go (00:00:45) from here, you know? (00:00:54) Prince Harry, the Duke of Sussex, is one (00:00:56) of the most famous people on planet (00:00:57) Earth. Two billion people [music] (00:00:59) watched his wedding, and my mom was one (00:01:01) of them. Every word he says in public is (00:01:04) either turned into a tabloid headline, (00:01:06) [music] a meme, or a stylized quote that (00:01:08) your aunt posts on her Facebook. And (00:01:11) while [music] that experience of being (00:01:12) constantly watched but never really seen (00:01:14) can be a burden, a royal bestselling (00:01:16) burden, Prince Harry has tried to (00:01:17) leverage all that attention for [music] (00:01:19) good. (00:01:19) >> Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have (00:01:21) officially launched the Parents Network (00:01:23) in coordination with their philanthropic (00:01:25) organization, Archwell Foundation. (00:01:26) >> Through the Archwell Foundation, he has (00:01:28) targeted funding towards helping (00:01:29) refugees and [music] workers in conflict (00:01:31) zones and supporting racial and gender (00:01:33) justice. and he has spent years trying (00:01:35) to raise the alarm about social media's (00:01:37) impact on mental health, especially on (00:01:40) kids. So, that's what we wanted to chat (00:01:42) about. I sat down with the Duke to talk (00:01:44) about how he's settling into life in (00:01:45) America. (00:01:46) >> No, I don't drink all (00:01:47) >> the danger of [music] repeating the same (00:01:48) mistakes with AI that we did with social (00:01:50) media. (00:01:51) >> It's hard enough in today's world being (00:01:53) a parent looking after your kids and (00:01:54) keeping them safe. (00:01:55) >> And I asked him, "What does a [music] (00:01:57) guy got to do around here to get kned? (00:01:59) >> If you have a sword, we can do it (00:02:01) afterwards. I got over 2 million (00:02:02) subscribers on YouTube. Come on, give me (00:02:05) my sword and chain mail already. [music] (00:02:10) [singing] (00:02:17) >> The moon could be holding over $1 (00:02:19) trillion worth of platinum in its (00:02:21) [music] craters. This is such a wild (00:02:23) concept that I had to check it out on (00:02:25) Ground News, which is today's sponsor. (00:02:27) Ground News shows a breakdown of (00:02:29) publications reporting on a story, (00:02:31) including the ownership, [music] (00:02:32) factuality, and political leanings of (00:02:34) that story. It's not about eliminating (00:02:35) bias. We've all got biases. [music] It's (00:02:38) just trying to make you aware of (00:02:40) potential biases or the veracity of (00:02:42) different publications as you analyze (00:02:44) [music] (00:02:44) an event or an issue. For example, when (00:02:47) I read about the moon, I was able to (00:02:48) scroll between some of the 17 [music] (00:02:50) reporting publications. 84% of the (00:02:53) sources were considered highfactuality (00:02:54) by ground news, while others were not, (00:02:57) though I probably could have guessed (00:02:59) that by [music] the headlines. One (00:03:00) article was titled, quote, "A (00:03:01) sensational treasure is hidden on the (00:03:03) moon. Whoever gets [music] it could (00:03:05) become very rich." I'm skeptical, but I (00:03:08) am listening. Use the link in the (00:03:09) description or go to groundnews.com/han (00:03:13) [music] (00:03:14) to get 40% off their Vantage plan, the (00:03:18) same [music] one we use here at HMDK. (00:03:21) That breaks down to just five bucks a (00:03:22) month for unlimited [music] access. (00:03:25) Visit groundnews.com/hassen (00:03:27) and subscribe today. (00:03:28) >> Please have a seat. (00:03:30) >> All right. Very nice. (00:03:31) >> Oh, we got you got water and a shot of (00:03:34) coffee. Very nice. (00:03:34) >> We got some chai. Have you have this? (00:03:36) This is my chai cafe if you want some. (00:03:37) Cheers. Yeah. Cheers. (00:03:39) >> Very nice. Spit it all over me before we (00:03:41) start. (00:03:43) >> If you're into it. (00:03:44) >> I am now. (00:03:45) >> All right. There we go. (00:03:46) >> That's great. (00:03:46) >> What do I call you? (00:03:48) >> Sir. Harry. You can call me sir if you (00:03:49) That would be quite fun. (00:03:51) >> My lord. (00:03:52) >> My lord. You can call me Harry. (00:03:53) >> I just watch a lot of Game of Thrones. (00:03:54) Okay, Harry. (00:03:56) >> Are you a Game of Thrones fan? (00:03:57) >> I I watched everything up until the last (00:03:58) season and then people told me they're (00:04:00) like, just don't even bother. (00:04:01) >> Will I be judged for admitting that I've (00:04:02) never I've never actually got into it. (00:04:04) >> What do you binge watch? (00:04:08) >> That's classified. I can't possibly (00:04:10) share that. (00:04:11) >> It's [laughter] still classified. All (00:04:12) right. All right. Just for context, how (00:04:14) long have you lived in the United States (00:04:16) of America? Uh, we got here in March of (00:04:19) 2020. So, we've been here for the last 5 (00:04:21) years. (00:04:21) >> What's the most American thing that you (00:04:22) do now? (00:04:23) >> What's the most American thing that I do (00:04:24) now? (00:04:25) >> Uh, surf. (00:04:33) >> Is that American or is that California? (00:04:34) >> I mean, people could also say that's (00:04:36) Australian as well. I mean, drink Coors (00:04:38) Light. (00:04:39) >> No, I don't drink Coors Light. (00:04:40) >> Do you wear shorts inside of (00:04:42) restaurants? (00:04:43) Uh I uh some No, but I don't I don't (00:04:48) really have legs for shorts. (00:04:49) >> Okay. (00:04:50) >> So that's (00:04:50) >> Oh, got it. You mean you mean from this (00:04:53) region down? It's (00:04:54) >> Yeah. (00:04:54) >> Not ideal. (00:04:55) >> I got chicken legs. I don't really You (00:04:56) know, no one should see my legs in (00:04:57) around. (00:04:58) >> Can you do an American accent? (00:05:00) >> Uh which part of America? (00:05:02) >> Anywhere. (00:05:03) >> Um (00:05:04) >> I'll give you a sentence here. I'll give (00:05:05) you a sentence. (00:05:05) >> Are you going to ask me? You've got a (00:05:07) sentence there. Okay. Well, it depends (00:05:08) on what it says. This is the most (00:05:10) American sentence I could think of. I (00:05:12) ordered bread sticks with ranch dressing (00:05:14) at Applebee's. (00:05:18) >> I say it again. (00:05:19) >> The ranch. You got to ranch. (00:05:21) >> And then on Applebee's, really emphasize (00:05:23) the a Applebees. (00:05:26) >> A Applebees. (00:05:27) >> I love Applebees. (00:05:29) >> I love Applebees. Now I'm Now I'm just (00:05:32) sitting here sweating. (00:05:33) >> I ordered bread sticks with ranch (00:05:36) dressing. I ordered bread sticks with (00:05:39) ranch dressing at Applebee's. (00:05:42) >> That was decent. (00:05:45) >> Hey, do you like my cyber truck? (00:05:48) >> Hey, do you like my cyber truck? (00:05:51) >> You guys out there, you cannot laugh (00:05:53) like this. We're having a real thing. (00:05:54) >> No, but by the way, the loft it's it's (00:05:56) it's encouraging. Is it encouraging or (00:05:58) is it is it mocking me? I'm (00:05:59) >> No. (00:06:00) >> Come on, y'all. (00:06:01) >> We have a There we go. (00:06:03) >> There we There it is. (00:06:04) >> Yeah. How's your yee-ha? Let me hear a (00:06:05) yee-ha. Yeeha! No, no. So, so you got (00:06:09) the beginning part, right? SO, IT'S THE (00:06:10) YE. (00:06:11) >> Is this a warm-up or is this part of the (00:06:13) thing? (00:06:13) >> We're warming up. (00:06:15) >> Okay, (00:06:15) >> Harry, we're going to get into some (00:06:17) heavy stuff. (00:06:17) >> Oh, this is like This is like trying to (00:06:19) like (00:06:19) >> These are like If you ever taken an (00:06:20) improv class, this is zip zap. This is (00:06:22) just to get warmed up. Scott, shall we (00:06:24) do the ye-ha again? (00:06:27) >> We're pretty good. (00:06:27) >> We're pretty good on Yeha. Okay, let's (00:06:29) get serious. (00:06:30) >> No, we don't have to get serious, but (00:06:31) it's a serious subject. It is a serious (00:06:33) subject, (00:06:33) >> but I fully appreciate that this podcast (00:06:35) of yours um sort of dives in and out of (00:06:37) the serious seriousness. You are a (00:06:38) humorous man. (00:06:39) >> I'm a humorous person. Yeah. [snorts] (00:06:40) One of the things I love actually about (00:06:43) your willingness to do the show is your (00:06:45) vulnerability. You've always been one to (00:06:48) share how you feel and you were really (00:06:51) vulnerable in your memoir, Spare. And I (00:06:54) know there was a lot of pain in those (00:06:55) pages. (00:06:57) There was a moment in the book that (00:06:58) really shook me to my core. Um, and it (00:07:01) was this quote, (00:07:03) "Each year I received from Pawn official (00:07:05) clothing allowance, but that was (00:07:06) strictly for formal wear, suits and (00:07:07) ties, ceremonial outfits. (00:07:10) For my everyday casual looks, I'd go to (00:07:11) TK Maxx, (00:07:13) the discount store. I was particularly (00:07:15) fond of their once a year sale when (00:07:16) they'd be flush with items from Gap or J (00:07:18) Crew items that had just come out of (00:07:20) season or were slightly damaged. (00:07:26) [snorts] Bro, I'm uh (00:07:31) >> I'm sorry you had to go through that. (00:07:32) >> I know. You know what? It was hard. It (00:07:35) was [snorts] really hard. TK Maxx is (00:07:36) it's now a special place, you know, (00:07:39) forms a special place in my memory. (00:07:40) >> And as I was I was reading that, I was (00:07:42) just like (00:07:45) TK Maxx, [music] (00:07:47) but it could have been worse. It could (00:07:48) have been Ross Dress for Less. (00:07:49) >> Do you guys have TK Maxx here? (00:07:51) >> It's TJ Maxx. (00:07:52) >> TJ Maxx. um slightly different, but (00:07:56) I'm just glad to see that you're on the (00:07:58) other side of the discount rack. (00:08:00) >> Thank you. I appreciate that. (00:08:03) >> You didn't think I was going to pull up (00:08:04) that quote, did you? (00:08:04) >> I had no idea. I didn't I wasn't I mean, (00:08:08) it could have been any quote to be (00:08:09) honest. I'm glad you pulled that one up. (00:08:10) Thank you. (00:08:11) >> Well, we're we're talking today because (00:08:12) we're talking about male vulnerability. (00:08:14) >> Both as British and Indian men, we were (00:08:17) brought up to hide our feelings. Do you (00:08:20) think that's changing now? I think we've (00:08:22) made huge progress um globally over the (00:08:25) last 10 20 years especially around (00:08:27) stigma around mental health um and (00:08:30) giving individuals especially young men (00:08:32) the opportunity to come forward um and (00:08:35) acknowledge their daily struggles. I (00:08:38) think that social media the way that it (00:08:41) is now is hampering a lot of the (00:08:44) progress that we've made and taking a (00:08:46) lot of young men and young boys into (00:08:47) very dark places. Um, which should (00:08:51) concern all of us. (00:08:52) >> The only men's health I was aware of was (00:08:55) the magazine. Problem is men's health (00:08:57) isn't really focused on uh what's (00:08:59) happening up here. (00:09:00) >> It's more abs focused. (00:09:02) >> Um, (00:09:03) >> have you ever been on the front cover of (00:09:04) that? (00:09:04) >> Never been on the front cover. (00:09:05) >> Would you like to be? We could organize. (00:09:06) >> I would love to. Okay. (00:09:08) >> Uh, but these covers are unique attacks (00:09:13) on my mental health. I'll tell you that (00:09:14) right now. (00:09:15) >> This much ab coverage. (00:09:17) >> I thought this is what you look like (00:09:19) >> without my shirt. (00:09:20) >> Yeah. (00:09:20) >> Camilani, not me. But yes, one does (00:09:24) aspire to have abs like that. Obviously, (00:09:27) the internet has helped normalize (00:09:29) conversations around mental health, (00:09:30) >> but it it's a double-edged sword, right? (00:09:32) >> Sure. Yeah. (00:09:33) >> So, should the thing that's making (00:09:34) mental health worse get the credit for (00:09:38) >> [snorts and laughter] (00:09:38) >> I I take your point. (00:09:40) >> Yeah. Yeah. Totally. It is making us (00:09:41) mentally ill. According to a recent Pew (00:09:43) poll, it found that nearly half of teens (00:09:46) >> aed 13 to 17 say they're online quote (00:09:49) >> almost constantly. When I read that, I (00:09:51) was like, "Holy shit." Because we're (00:09:53) parents. We have young young children. (00:09:55) So, I have two children, seven and five. (00:09:57) You have two children, six and four. (00:09:59) Correct. That's why I thought it was so (00:10:00) interesting that we're meeting at this (00:10:01) juncture in our lives, (00:10:02) >> like so many of these real existential (00:10:05) crossroads. Well, look, first of all, I (00:10:07) think we should be very grateful that (00:10:08) our kids are as young as they are. And (00:10:10) this is but this is this is a these are (00:10:12) platforms. This is a an industry that (00:10:15) has been going for 20 plus years. (00:10:17) >> Mhm. (00:10:18) >> And if the last 10 years, as they claim, (00:10:21) >> the suicides, deaths, harms of social (00:10:24) media to especially to young people, (00:10:26) what they describe as consequences. In a (00:10:29) dramatic moment, Zuckerberg turned to (00:10:30) face and apologized to dozens of parents (00:10:33) holding up photos of their teens whose (00:10:35) deaths they blamed on social media. But (00:10:37) in a prepared statement, he still (00:10:39) maintained that his platforms, Facebook (00:10:41) and Instagram did not bear any direct (00:10:44) responsibility. (00:10:44) >> Will you take personal responsibility, (00:10:47) >> Senator? I view my job and the job of (00:10:49) our company as building the best tools (00:10:52) that we can to keep our community safe. (00:10:54) >> Well, you're failing at that. (00:10:55) >> Well, Senator, we're doing an (00:10:56) industryleading effort. We build AI (00:10:58) tools. Your product is killing people. (00:11:00) >> The last 10 10 years has been unintended (00:11:02) consequences. Where are we at now? (00:11:05) >> I mean, the general consensus is (00:11:08) >> it's too far gone. The genie's out of (00:11:09) the bottle. That that's how people feel (00:11:11) right now. (00:11:12) >> My hope is that this is this is an era, (00:11:16) >> a really bad one that we need to solve (00:11:18) and we need to fix. And really the the (00:11:21) solution is safety by design which is (00:11:25) relatively easy thing to do but it's (00:11:27) just being neglected. And what we've (00:11:30) learned over the last few years is the (00:11:33) exploitation of minds of what (00:11:37) effectively destroys kids self-esteem (00:11:40) kids kills their sleep, kills their (00:11:41) independence. (00:11:42) >> Yeah. (00:11:42) >> The very thing that supposedly connected (00:11:45) people has now created more isolation (00:11:48) than ever before. I don't know if you (00:11:49) guys have hit this crossroads yet, but (00:11:51) what are you going to do when your kids (00:11:52) ask for a cell phone? Are you [snorts] (00:11:53) going to give them a phone? I mean, have (00:11:54) you talked to Megan about this? Because (00:11:55) I've talked to my wife about this. (00:11:57) >> We talk about a lot. And I think that, (00:11:58) you know, because because of what we (00:12:00) know now, (00:12:01) >> Yeah. (00:12:02) >> we will be way more cautious (00:12:05) >> and hesitant of allowing our kids to (00:12:07) have access to social media. But the (00:12:10) problem is so many parents don't have (00:12:12) that awareness because in no in no (00:12:15) logical, fair, ethical, moral world, (00:12:19) >> should a parent have to consider that (00:12:22) this app that sits on the phone, which (00:12:24) by the way, having a phone for your kid (00:12:26) is a really important thing. (00:12:27) >> Totally. Yeah. To know where they are (00:12:28) and they can get in touch with you. (00:12:30) Totally. All of that. But the moment (00:12:31) that you give them the gateway to (00:12:33) everything else, kids will be kids. My (00:12:35) eldest is in the second grade. And my (00:12:39) overall strategy with parenting at this (00:12:41) point, I use bribery and lying. I'm like (00:12:43) a hostage negotiator. If they ask for (00:12:45) something, I'll be like, "Let me just (00:12:46) let me see what I can do for you." (00:12:47) >> They're young enough for me to go like, (00:12:49) "I don't have any money." (00:12:50) >> Mhm. (00:12:51) >> They're going to hit the point where (00:12:52) they can call me on my [ __ ] (00:12:54) >> Well, they probably will after this, but (00:12:56) yeah. (00:12:56) >> What are you guys going to do when you (00:12:58) hit that 8 n 10 place? I don't know what (00:13:01) to do because I feel like I'm being (00:13:02) opted in. like I have no choice. The QR (00:13:05) code, the Chromebook over the textbook, (00:13:07) like I feel like my hand is (00:13:09) >> You're right. A lot of a lot of parents (00:13:10) don't I think feel as though they don't (00:13:12) have a choice and a lot of kids don't (00:13:13) have a choice, right? Because the (00:13:16) reality is that if you talk about just (00:13:18) having a phone, a smartphone and a um (00:13:21) and a sort of old school phone, two very (00:13:23) different things. If you want to be able (00:13:24) to contact your kid, maybe we should (00:13:26) just be giving them the old school (00:13:27) phone. (00:13:28) >> Aka, they call it dumb phones now, (00:13:29) right? Which dumb. (00:13:30) >> Yeah. Which is basically just like call (00:13:32) and text. funny that because the (00:13:33) smartphone seems to be making us dumber (00:13:35) anyway. But I think that, you know, our (00:13:37) goal has to be to make sure that when (00:13:41) our children get to that age, that the (00:13:44) situation now is not the situation then, (00:13:46) right? There's no reason why it should (00:13:47) be. Yes, I have we have to accept that (00:13:49) the world is changing. Um, but for these (00:13:51) kids who are on smartphones at the (00:13:52) moment, even if you're a parent who (00:13:54) says, you know what, I'm not going to (00:13:55) allow you to be on on Instagram. I'm not (00:13:57) going to allow you to be on Snapchat. (00:13:58) Guess what happens? They go to school, (00:14:00) they get bullied because they're the (00:14:01) only person that's not on the on that (00:14:02) platform. (00:14:03) >> Correct. So, I got I got I got called on (00:14:05) that with, "Hey, she has a Apple Watch. (00:14:07) Can I get an Apple Watch?" (00:14:09) >> Mhm. (00:14:09) >> You know, and yeah, jokes aside, that's (00:14:11) when I was like, "Ah, I can't right." (00:14:13) But that's not going to work by the time (00:14:14) she gets to third or fourth grade. (00:14:18) There's a there's a there's a collective (00:14:19) here, right? There's a collective piece (00:14:20) to this where the awareness of the (00:14:23) situation, the more parents that know (00:14:25) what is happening, the more parents can (00:14:27) can protect their kids. And but it (00:14:30) shouldn't (00:14:31) >> I about to say it shouldn't be down to (00:14:32) us to have to do that. It's it's hard (00:14:35) enough in today's world being a parent (00:14:37) looking after your kids and keeping them (00:14:38) safe. And I've used this analogy many (00:14:40) times before, but you know, gone of the (00:14:42) days of having your kid under your roof (00:14:45) knowing that they're safe because they (00:14:46) can be in the next door room now on a (00:14:48) tablet, on an iPad, on an iPhone, or any (00:14:50) kind of smartphone and be in the (00:14:53) deepest, darkest thoughts. (00:14:54) >> Did you watch Adolescence on Netflix? (00:14:56) >> I did. (00:14:57) >> Did it scare the [ __ ] out of you? (00:14:59) >> No, because I already knew it. How many (00:15:02) political figures and governments around (00:15:03) the world started to engage in this (00:15:05) conversation as if they didn't know? (00:15:08) This is one of the biggest problems that (00:15:09) we that we face (00:15:10) >> which is adolescence is created (00:15:13) fantastic film great messaging really (00:15:15) important subject (00:15:16) >> but social media has been going the way (00:15:19) that it has for at least 10 years (00:15:21) >> right the algorithm the rabbit holes the (00:15:22) >> dark people people look to governments (00:15:24) to protect them (00:15:26) >> and yet we have this this lawlessness (00:15:29) within this particular industry where as (00:15:31) far as they're concerned accountability (00:15:33) slows down innovation the power and the (00:15:36) decision-m rests with the fuel do rather (00:15:38) than the many. And the incentives are (00:15:39) all wrong. The incentives are all to (00:15:43) keep kids online for as long as (00:15:45) possible. Um to farm and process your (00:15:51) thinking, your thoughts and just keep (00:15:53) you literally keep you there for as long (00:15:54) as possible so they can make as much (00:15:55) money as possible. They don't actually (00:15:57) care. And I think the the real question (00:15:59) we need to be asking ourselves is what (00:16:00) is the what is the future that we want (00:16:03) built for us or what is the future that (00:16:06) we will build for ourselves? What does (00:16:08) the future look like (00:16:09) >> and what is the what does our culture (00:16:11) look like? You know the cultural norms (00:16:12) of do we do this? (00:16:14) >> But that's the piece to it. That's the (00:16:15) piece to it. like how do we how do we (00:16:16) mobilize to be able to ensure that the (00:16:19) the future of of of our digital space (00:16:22) >> isn't created by a small group of elite (00:16:26) powerful people (00:16:27) >> tech oligarchs. Sure. (00:16:28) >> Tech ol [laughter] you said it um in a (00:16:30) boardroom (00:16:31) >> as opposed to for for for the people (00:16:34) that are using it. And there's there's a (00:16:37) moral there's a moral and there's an (00:16:38) ethical argument which I think is very (00:16:40) clear. Well, what what is clearly what (00:16:42) still astounds me is the lack of legal (00:16:45) uh protections again like as a company (00:16:48) if you're working in that company surely (00:16:49) you would want accountability. (00:16:50) >> Yeah. (00:16:51) >> I mean there is this culture of build (00:16:52) fast and break things and that's totally (00:16:54) fine with binary code when our kids or (00:16:58) teenagers are the collateral damage. (00:17:00) That's the terrifying part. And I hope (00:17:02) man (00:17:03) >> this becomes a bipartisan thing. It's (00:17:05) not about Democrat or Republican. It's (00:17:07) not about what country you're from. This (00:17:09) is a thing that um (00:17:10) >> it affects every single person. (00:17:12) >> Every single person (00:17:12) >> and it's not and when it comes to the (00:17:14) when it comes to the kids literally (00:17:16) killing themselves because of social (00:17:18) media, it's still very easy (00:17:21) >> for the companies to turn around and (00:17:22) say, "Well, if you don't like it, don't (00:17:23) use it." (00:17:24) >> Yeah. (00:17:24) >> It's like, well, you you're the ones (00:17:25) that made it super super addictive in (00:17:27) the first place and now you've got the (00:17:28) kids hooked on it. So, (00:17:29) >> you're now working with parents who have (00:17:31) suffered a tremendous loss. The parents (00:17:33) network. Tell us more about what that is (00:17:35) and what you guys are working on. The (00:17:37) parents network was really formed out of (00:17:41) the conversations and the meetings that (00:17:43) we had with parents who had lost their (00:17:45) kids to social media through severe harm (00:17:48) um and in the worst case suicide. Um and (00:17:51) the parents network is growing every (00:17:53) single day which is a good thing and a (00:17:55) bad thing. It's a good thing because (00:17:56) it's reaching parents who need it but (00:17:58) it's a bad thing the fact that it's (00:18:00) needed in the first place and the fact (00:18:01) that it's growing. (00:18:03) My lock screen (00:18:05) is a picture of my kids. (00:18:08) What's yours? (00:18:14) These children and thousands more meant (00:18:18) the world to their families. (00:18:21) The beautiful faces you see before you, (00:18:24) their smiles, their dreams, (00:18:27) all lost. (00:18:30) All too soon. (00:18:32) and all because of social media. We (00:18:35) created this space to be able to give (00:18:36) them the opportunity and the space to (00:18:38) heal, to be able to share their own (00:18:39) stories, to realize that they're not (00:18:41) alone in this experience, this (00:18:44) horrendous, devastating experience. (00:18:45) Yeah. (00:18:46) >> And that has given them the collective (00:18:48) power and courage and confidence to (00:18:51) stand up against this these these (00:18:54) systems to write the wrongs of the past (00:18:56) to change the system so that other (00:18:59) parents don't face the same devastating (00:19:02) consequences. (00:19:03) There's so many things you could do with (00:19:06) your time, your platform. Was there a (00:19:08) particular moment that made you go, (00:19:10) "This is something that I want to focus (00:19:12) on." Was it something that you (00:19:13) experienced in your life that made you (00:19:15) want to (00:19:15) >> Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure. Like my uh (00:19:17) myself and my wife, we've talked about (00:19:19) this quite a lot. You know, we've had (00:19:20) our own our fair share of of beatings on (00:19:22) social media. And I guess when we moved (00:19:24) to the US, one of the things that we (00:19:26) both agreed on was yes, we could focus (00:19:28) on the things that really um that are (00:19:31) very clearly obviously aligned to our (00:19:33) passions and causes. (00:19:34) >> Yeah. (00:19:35) >> Social med the tech industry was not one (00:19:37) of those things. (00:19:38) >> It it wasn't something you were clocking (00:19:40) at the time. (00:19:40) >> No. Yeah. Yeah. (00:19:41) >> But what we agreed and what we were in (00:19:42) search search of was what is the root (00:19:45) cause of so much suffering and pain (00:19:48) around the world and and if that what if (00:19:51) if if we can identify that how can we (00:19:54) shine a light on that and support the (00:19:56) people trying to change change change (00:19:59) change the industry. And then it was the (00:20:01) tech industry and it was social media. (00:20:03) And we're like well that's that's not (00:20:05) very sexy. That's there's no real how do (00:20:07) you tell this story? And then we saw the (00:20:09) experts at at Stanford and we realized (00:20:12) there had been a growing group of (00:20:14) experts and researchers who had been (00:20:17) raising the alarm for so many years and (00:20:21) weren't being listened to and you can (00:20:24) you can make your own assessment as to (00:20:27) you know why that may have been but (00:20:28) people were raising the alarm for a long (00:20:30) time and after we met these these these (00:20:33) experts and researchers at Stanford we (00:20:35) were like this is something that we (00:20:36) should put our weight behind Have you (00:20:38) guys thought about and I've been (00:20:40) thinking about this deeply. (00:20:42) The speed of digital media is moving so (00:20:46) much faster than the analog nature of (00:20:49) law and regulation. (00:20:51) We haven't even come up with an idea of (00:20:53) what is a child's digital rights. Simple (00:20:56) example, I don't know if you have this (00:20:58) with Archie and Lily. Say they they have (00:21:00) a recital (00:21:02) >> uh or a soccer practice. I'll look to (00:21:04) the stands and I will see (00:21:06) >> a dozen or so parents. Everybody has (00:21:08) their phone out (00:21:09) >> capturing (00:21:10) a really cute, genuine moment, but it's (00:21:14) also a surreal thing to know that, oh (00:21:17) wow, I have videos of someone else's (00:21:20) child (00:21:20) >> and someone has videos of my child. And (00:21:23) now with generative AI and Sora, the (00:21:26) speed and rate at which these images and (00:21:29) faces in your name and likeness can get (00:21:30) manipulated. (00:21:31) >> Yeah. (00:21:31) >> I mean, it's a really terrifying thing. (00:21:34) What do we do to save and protect the (00:21:37) anonymity and the digital safety of all (00:21:41) children so that they get to engage with (00:21:43) the digital world on their terms? (00:21:45) >> Should parents post photos (00:21:48) of their children online? This has also (00:21:50) been a very (00:21:51) >> parents can do whatever they want. The (00:21:53) reality is from what I've learned, what (00:21:55) I've seen, what I've heard and (00:21:57) experienced through especially through (00:21:58) the parents network is (00:22:02) you should be really really worried, (00:22:05) concerned, and cautious (00:22:07) >> about putting photographs of your kids (00:22:09) online, (00:22:10) >> especially now. (00:22:11) >> Yeah. (00:22:11) >> With this surge of unregulated AI, you (00:22:14) just don't know where it's going to go. (00:22:15) You don't know how it's going to be (00:22:16) used. (00:22:16) >> Yeah. (00:22:17) >> Um but that's also really sad. And now (00:22:19) there's parents watching this going, (00:22:21) "Well, how am I supposed to share (00:22:23) photographs of my kids with so and so on (00:22:25) the other side of the world?" (00:22:26) >> I'd love a rubber meets the road (00:22:28) question with you because every parent (00:22:30) navigates this differently. (00:22:32) >> What age do you think kids should be (00:22:34) allowed to join social media? (00:22:37) [snorts] (00:22:37) >> Um, (00:22:39) for me it's 35. For me, (00:22:41) >> by who? Allowed by parents or allowed by (00:22:43) the companies? (00:22:46) Because at the moment, (00:22:47) >> I mean the com at the m now they have it (00:22:49) for kids. They have Facebook for kids. (00:22:50) They have these social media platforms (00:22:52) for kids. (00:22:52) >> Yes. And as [snorts] a dad, do you think (00:22:54) that is acceptable? (00:22:55) >> Not at all. Like I said, my position on (00:22:57) it is 35. (00:22:58) >> Mhm. (00:22:58) >> Be 35 years old. (00:22:59) >> Mhm. (00:23:00) >> Please. I I just don't want them to have (00:23:02) that much access to things that would (00:23:04) could destroy their own self-esteem. (00:23:05) >> Yeah. You know, (00:23:06) >> I think um you know, once you once your (00:23:07) once your brain is properly formed, (00:23:11) >> once you are starting to learn who you (00:23:13) are, (00:23:14) >> I mean that's a sliding scale, man. (00:23:15) Yeah, that is a sling. [laughter] (00:23:16) >> So, what is the Let's just be realistic (00:23:18) for a moment. What is the youngest that (00:23:19) you will allow your kids to be on social (00:23:22) media (00:23:24) >> or to be using AI? (00:23:27) >> So, (00:23:28) AI has already been merged with the (00:23:30) traditional technology company. So, (00:23:32) Google already has Gemini pre-loaded (00:23:33) into it. So, there's all these things (00:23:34) where I feel angry that I've you're (00:23:36) opting me in. It's like when you go to a (00:23:38) restaurant (00:23:39) >> and you go, "Can I have a physical (00:23:40) menu?" And they go, "You got to scan the (00:23:41) QR code." You're like, "Please, for the (00:23:42) love of God, it's date night. Let me get (00:23:43) a physical menu." like I'm trying to (00:23:45) avoid the phone. (00:23:46) >> But for me, ideally, I hope until (00:23:50) university, like (00:23:52) >> they're still innocent and that's a (00:23:53) really beautiful thing. And I want their (00:23:56) life to be determined on their terms and (00:23:58) for them to make memories on on their (00:24:00) terms in the physical world before it's (00:24:04) litigated and dissected in the digital (00:24:06) world. (00:24:06) >> I think 21 is a sensible age. (00:24:09) >> Um, but those but the the companies (00:24:12) don't they won't ever allow that. Yeah, (00:24:13) >> they will throw tens of millions of of (00:24:16) dollars to lobby against that. (00:24:18) >> You could think of even just tactically (00:24:19) as just I call it strategic friction. (00:24:21) >> Like even for me, (00:24:23) >> even before you came here, (00:24:25) >> just taking a moment to sit down with (00:24:27) the things I wanted to talk to you about (00:24:29) us having a chat (00:24:31) >> off (00:24:32) >> this idea of add a little bit of (00:24:34) friction between you and the technology. (00:24:36) The the opt-in is so easy. It's so (00:24:39) lubricated for you to access everything (00:24:41) and anything through the rectangle of (00:24:43) sadness. I wish there was a little bit (00:24:44) more friction. I don't know if you feel (00:24:45) that way of, hey, hey, keep the keep the (00:24:48) candy on a higher shelf for both (00:24:49) children and adults. I'm not saying you (00:24:52) shouldn't have it, but (00:24:53) >> well, I don't think anybody would (00:24:55) disagree with that. (00:24:57) >> The only people that the only people (00:24:58) that disagreeing with it and refusing to (00:25:00) to to implement the changes (00:25:01) >> are the tech companies. (00:25:02) >> Yeah. Are the people that are (00:25:03) incentivized to keep the candy on the (00:25:04) bottom shelf. Um, I want to talk to you (00:25:06) about children AI and these chat bots. (00:25:09) Um, I don't know if you saw the recent (00:25:10) story in the New York Times, uh, about (00:25:12) children interacting with AI chat bots (00:25:15) and and this is not a Black Mirror (00:25:16) episode and it led to actual fatalities. (00:25:18) Reading that big New York Times piece (00:25:20) made me feel like the parents and (00:25:21) adolescence specifically. I didn't even (00:25:24) know what I didn't even know. Yeah, (00:25:25) >> we don't know what (00:25:27) >> your child is accessing. in your kind of (00:25:31) research around this topic and the (00:25:33) people that you've met and the experts (00:25:34) you've talked to, do we even have a (00:25:37) sense of how big this problem is? (00:25:39) >> No, we don't. Um, and when you have when (00:25:42) you have AI experts coming forward (00:25:44) raising the alarm bells, (00:25:47) um, and they're being ignored, then we (00:25:49) should be, you know, doubly concerned. (00:25:51) You know, in August, Reuters put out a (00:25:53) story as well. Uh, whistleblower came (00:25:55) forward um from Meta exposing the the (00:25:58) written policies, right? The written (00:26:00) policies that were acceptable within (00:26:02) Meta regarding their chat bots, not (00:26:04) someone else's content, not someone (00:26:07) else's creation, their own internal chat (00:26:09) bots. (00:26:10) >> They had met Meta had written a policy (00:26:12) that basically allowed these chat bots (00:26:14) to flirt with children, (00:26:18) >> right? And then when they were exposed (00:26:20) in the Reuters story, they turned around (00:26:21) and said, "Oh, that was a mis that was a (00:26:23) mistake. We've now removed that (00:26:24) wording." Like, how could that possibly (00:26:25) be a mistake? It went all the way up to (00:26:26) your legal team. (00:26:28) >> So, I think we should really like sort (00:26:31) [snorts] of like um snap out of it and (00:26:35) just acknowledge the reality of the fact (00:26:37) that there's some really evil, wicked (00:26:39) people at the heart of this who want to (00:26:42) farm our children's uh mindset and (00:26:46) market it for themselves. There is no (00:26:48) free will on social media as it stands. (00:26:50) Um and people turn around to me these (00:26:52) parents turn around and say um people (00:26:54) surely we surely we can learn from the (00:26:56) mistakes of the past. I said mistakes to (00:26:59) who? Because to the social media (00:27:01) companies it wasn't mistakes. What (00:27:04) they've learned and what these AI (00:27:05) companies have now learned is the amount (00:27:07) that you can get away with. (00:27:09) >> Right. (00:27:09) >> We apply our content rules consistently (00:27:11) and fairly across all accounts. We run (00:27:14) samples of our enforcement actions (00:27:15) through quality assurance to verify that (00:27:17) we're getting it right. We also (00:27:19) proactively scan for known child sexual (00:27:21) abuse material, drugrelated content, and (00:27:24) other types of harmful content. I'm (00:27:25) proud of the work that our teams do to (00:27:27) improve online child safety on our (00:27:29) services and across the entire internet. (00:27:31) We have many teams dedicated to child (00:27:33) safety and teen well-being, and we lead (00:27:35) the industry in a lot of the areas that (00:27:36) we're discussing [music] today. So, you (00:27:38) think that there is a sufficient safety (00:27:40) mechanism for an 8-year-old to be able (00:27:42) to access Tik Tok? (00:27:44) >> An 8-year-old's experience on Tik Tok (00:27:45) will be so highly restricted that every (00:27:47) single piece of content he or she will (00:27:49) see will be vetted by Common Sense, our (00:27:51) third party child safety expert. So, I (00:27:53) believe yes, it is the appropriate (00:27:55) experience for an 80year-old. (00:27:57) >> So, the biggest concern that we have or (00:27:59) should have is the wrongs of those last (00:28:01) 10 years. Are we going to repeat them (00:28:02) again with AI? And it looks like at the (00:28:04) moment we are. And yet it's entirely (00:28:07) preventable with this sort of this this (00:28:10) precipice point where social media got (00:28:12) us hooked first and then in in came the (00:28:14) ad companies. Yeah. (00:28:15) >> And now AI is about to do exactly the (00:28:17) same. Once we're all hooked on AI, the (00:28:19) ad companies are going to come in. (00:28:20) >> Do you remember years ago we had this (00:28:21) conversation and and you and I met up to (00:28:24) potentially talk about doing a podcast (00:28:26) like this. (00:28:26) >> Yeah. (00:28:27) >> And I remember talking with you about (00:28:30) your unique place in history cuz it's (00:28:32) we're having this web 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0 (00:28:35) moment. Now with AI, (00:28:36) >> you know, when they say take something (00:28:37) to its logical conclusion, you've seen (00:28:39) where something can go, how bad (00:28:40) something can go. (00:28:42) >> If a story or something misinformation (00:28:44) spins out of control, (00:28:46) >> what is a a warning cry you could give (00:28:49) the rest of the world as someone who's (00:28:51) seen that even as far back as the late (00:28:54) 90s and early 2000s? (00:28:56) Um, I I am definitely sitting here, you (00:29:00) know, raising the alarm bell, you know, (00:29:02) and I'm I'm I'm not a I'm not a social (00:29:04) media expert. I'm not an AI expert. (00:29:06) >> Um, but I'm definitely I would (00:29:07) definitely add my voice and my wife's (00:29:09) voice and and our whole team's voice to (00:29:11) the uh to the chorus of experts raising (00:29:14) the alarm bells that unre unregulated AI (00:29:17) um is going to cause more harm than (00:29:19) good. (00:29:20) I don't want to be all doom and gloom, (00:29:22) but I do think that it's going to get to (00:29:23) a a stage where parents will just (00:29:27) not let their kids on social media at (00:29:28) all. So, kind of it's a kind of (00:29:31) self-defeating thing from as far as the (00:29:33) social media companies are concerned, (00:29:35) which is you you you want you should you (00:29:37) need and want as many users as possible, (00:29:39) right? (00:29:39) >> But there comes a point where it's like, (00:29:41) >> you know, some parents are like, "Okay, (00:29:42) I'll let you on this app, but you can't (00:29:44) be on this app. I'll let you be on this (00:29:45) app for this amount of time," (00:29:47) >> right? But then not that's the way that (00:29:50) parents are trying to sort of find a a (00:29:51) happy medium to I know I I know there (00:29:54) are some concerns about these apps and (00:29:56) but I also know that in part of your (00:29:58) childhood and growing up you need to be (00:30:00) connecting with your friends and you (00:30:02) need to be part of that conversation (00:30:04) otherwise you're going to get bullied (00:30:05) for not being part of that conversation. (00:30:06) So I appreciate that. So I'm going to (00:30:08) give you little bits here and there but (00:30:10) it's going to turn into a point where (00:30:13) parents will be like absolutely not. (00:30:15) You're not allowed anywhere near those (00:30:16) ads. social media cigarettes (00:30:18) essentially. (00:30:19) >> Exactly. Like pay. (00:30:20) >> Well, look what we learn. We learned a (00:30:21) lot from the tobacco industry and (00:30:22) alcohol stuff. (00:30:23) >> Totally. And the addictive nature of it. (00:30:25) >> Exactly. And I don't And I don't see the (00:30:27) difference here. And I don't see how (00:30:29) these this industry can get away with (00:30:31) what they're getting away with. (00:30:32) >> Um and my hope is that again, as you (00:30:34) quite rightly point out, it's not a it's (00:30:36) not a partisan issue. It's a bipartisan (00:30:39) issue and everybody can agree that the (00:30:41) safety of our children is absolutely (00:30:42) paramount. The question then becomes (00:30:44) well you know [snorts] (00:30:47) x percentage or number of children dying (00:30:50) is somehow collateral. (00:30:51) >> Yeah (00:30:52) >> I think with the level of intelligence (00:30:54) and the technology available there is no (00:30:56) excuse for creating something so vast so (00:31:00) successful (00:31:01) >> and just and accepting that people are (00:31:03) going to die in the process. That does (00:31:05) not (00:31:06) >> it just doesn't make sense to me. May (00:31:08) the next 10 years and beyond be a decade (00:31:11) defined by collective action and (00:31:13) hopefully regulation. (00:31:14) >> Yeah. (00:31:14) >> But um (00:31:15) >> we can do it and we will do it. Um this (00:31:17) the good thing is that we are the vast (00:31:18) majority. They are the minority. They (00:31:20) have the power and the (00:31:21) >> Yeah, we feel it. Everyone feels it. (00:31:23) There is this existential kind of (00:31:24) >> we have to take we have to take we have (00:31:26) to take control of our device and (00:31:27) control of our algorithm. There's a lot (00:31:28) of studies out there and I encourage (00:31:30) parents and anyone that's that's (00:31:31) watching this or listening to it to to (00:31:34) look for these studies. MIT came out (00:31:37) with a study recently that proved that (00:31:40) those uh using chat GPT and those that (00:31:43) weren't were having their intelligence (00:31:45) sucked out of them basically what the (00:31:47) what was termed as cognitive depth which (00:31:50) essentially says that the the more you (00:31:52) use chat GBT the more you use these AI (00:31:54) platforms which you believe or led to (00:31:56) believe or told that this will help you (00:31:59) create a good speech uh good (00:32:02) dissertation or whatever um you (00:32:04) completely lose lose your ability to (00:32:07) think. Uh especially critical think, (00:32:10) >> right? Yeah. Yeah. You're cheating on (00:32:10) the test. You're cheating on the test. (00:32:12) >> You're cheating on the test. You're (00:32:12) cheating on the test. But also in the (00:32:14) long term, medium and long term, it's (00:32:16) making you (00:32:17) >> dumber. You can say it dumber. (00:32:18) >> Well, you said it, not me. But that's (00:32:20) what it's doing. So, so that so if we (00:32:22) want to know where we're headed, (00:32:23) >> yeah, (00:32:24) >> more and more people are becoming slaves (00:32:26) to this very system that is is just is (00:32:29) sort of manufacturing us in the way that (00:32:32) >> Well, you know, one of the parallels (00:32:34) that I found is every new technology (00:32:35) seems to find a new way for girls to (00:32:39) hate their own bodies and for boys to (00:32:41) hate girls. (00:32:43) >> Like this just keeps happening over and (00:32:45) over and over again. And so for me, I (00:32:47) become a bit of an AI doomer. Like I am (00:32:49) like this is scary. (00:32:52) >> I don't know where this is going, but (00:32:53) I've seen this happen before from the (00:32:56) early chat rooms with web 1.0 to what (00:32:58) became web 2.0 and social media. (00:33:00) >> I don't want to know where this is going (00:33:02) to go with generative AI. (00:33:04) >> But AI AI AI has AI has a role and even (00:33:06) if you don't want it to have a role, I (00:33:08) don't think there's any turning back. (00:33:09) So, you know, the question is, do we (00:33:11) embrace it as it is? No. I think we (00:33:13) embrace the idea that AI could and (00:33:16) hopefully will save lives and make lives (00:33:19) easier and better, but the way that it's (00:33:21) being done at the moment is (00:33:23) exploitative, massively. So, (00:33:25) >> it's it's disturbing, man. It's (00:33:27) disturbing and dystopian that people are (00:33:29) going to these chat bots instead of (00:33:31) seeing licensed professionals. (00:33:34) >> Well, can I can I challenge you on that? (00:33:35) >> Sure. (00:33:36) >> When when people are desperate (00:33:38) >> Yeah. They will go to whatever they have (00:33:42) greatest access to. Sure. (00:33:43) >> Especially if it's free. (00:33:44) >> Yeah. (00:33:45) >> So, I think it's less about, this is the (00:33:47) opt-in piece, it's less about (00:33:50) questioning why people would go to and (00:33:53) rely on a chatbot to give them (00:33:55) psychological advice. (00:33:57) >> Yeah, (00:33:58) >> I can completely understand why you (00:33:59) would do that if you're in a dire (00:34:01) situation. (00:34:02) >> Sure. (00:34:03) >> The issue that I have is that these (00:34:04) these companies are creating these chat (00:34:06) bots pretending (00:34:08) >> Yeah. claiming that this chatbot is as (00:34:11) good as (00:34:13) a mental health doctor. There's a word (00:34:16) for that, isn't there? When you're when (00:34:17) you as a company, you've created (00:34:19) something pretending that it can provide (00:34:21) this kind of a service when actually it (00:34:23) can't. What's it called? (00:34:24) >> What's that called? (00:34:25) >> What's the word? Fraud. [laughter] (00:34:27) >> Fraud. (00:34:27) >> That's the one. (00:34:28) >> That's fraud. Bang. (00:34:29) >> Fraud. There we go. Thank you. You said (00:34:30) it. (00:34:30) >> Look. Look, you know, in in my dream, as (00:34:32) we have this conversation, we're a few (00:34:34) blocks away from the New York Public (00:34:35) Library, which is one of the most (00:34:36) beautiful libraries, I think, in the (00:34:38) world. I would argue what public (00:34:40) libraries represented was a was a (00:34:42) physical public good. There is no they (00:34:44) don't give earnings. Like it it is not a (00:34:46) profitable business to be like anybody (00:34:48) in the city of New York can get books (00:34:51) and check them out for as long as you (00:34:52) like. (00:34:52) >> I think some of the public libraries (00:34:54) here in New York City, they also lifted (00:34:55) the late fees. So, you can just straight (00:34:56) up steal books. You do theft. The point (00:34:59) of it was, hey, knowledge is a right for (00:35:02) the public. (00:35:04) >> And so that is considered a public good. (00:35:06) The same way a public education is (00:35:07) considered a public good. (00:35:08) >> How do we in the future create a digital (00:35:10) public good where there are services (00:35:12) that are provided (00:35:13) >> that are good for our children and (00:35:16) everybody that aren't incentivized by (00:35:18) the stock market. You could never take a (00:35:20) public library private. There's no (00:35:22) business model there. (00:35:23) >> You're saying people are turning to this (00:35:25) because it's accessible and free. Mhm. (00:35:28) What are those digital public goods that (00:35:29) we can create that give people in (00:35:33) humanity the vegetables they need? Shout (00:35:35) out to Khan Academy. Khan Academy was (00:35:36) one of those things, too, that provided (00:35:38) educational access to children all over (00:35:40) the world. That's what I want for my my (00:35:41) children and all children around the (00:35:43) world. Yeah. (00:35:43) >> Seriously. (00:35:44) >> No. And look, we're still part of this (00:35:46) um giant experiment, right? (00:35:48) >> Yeah. where these companies again have (00:35:50) the have the the financial capability, (00:35:53) the resources, the willpower, the (00:35:55) intelligence to be able to create the (00:35:57) very things that you're talking about, (00:35:58) but they're not doing it. (00:35:59) >> Yeah. (00:36:00) >> They're using us, (00:36:02) manipulating us, exploiting us for their (00:36:04) own personal gain. It's almost like just (00:36:06) all we care about is just making money. (00:36:07) You're not you're not making the world a (00:36:08) better place. You're telling us that, (00:36:10) you know, we can't live without tech. We (00:36:13) can't live without social media purely (00:36:15) to keep us engaged for as long as (00:36:17) possible. Um, but there is no free will (00:36:20) in in in the current state of affairs. (00:36:23) >> Yeah. (00:36:23) >> Because you can argue, again, as I said (00:36:26) earlier, it's a very easy argument for (00:36:28) them to turn around say if you don't (00:36:29) like it, don't be on it. It's like, (00:36:30) right, but you've already hooked us just (00:36:32) like a drug user would (00:36:33) >> you've already hooked us. (00:36:36) Like why why why not just make it safe? (00:36:38) Why? Like you've How many whistleblowers (00:36:42) have come out and been ignored or (00:36:44) forgotten about? (00:36:44) >> Yeah, totally. Like how many (00:36:45) whistleblowers does it take before (00:36:47) someone somewhere actually does (00:36:49) something at the heart of this? (00:36:51) Otherwise, what we're doing is running (00:36:54) upstairs and finding the bath (00:36:55) overflowing. Quick, grab a mop. (00:36:57) >> Yeah. Right. (00:36:58) >> No, just turn the tap off. (00:36:59) >> One of the things you worked on is (00:37:00) technology being used responsibly. Um, (00:37:03) can you talk about some of the projects (00:37:05) that you funded through your responsible (00:37:07) technology youth power fund? (00:37:09) >> Well, those those kids are those kids (00:37:11) are awesome. Um, and I think this (00:37:14) touches First of all, establish what it (00:37:15) is because it sounds like it's like a (00:37:16) superhero group. (00:37:17) >> It's what it's what the world needs, (00:37:19) right? Which is young people who have (00:37:20) the knowledge and the experience and (00:37:23) whose future is currently isn't in their (00:37:26) hands, but they want it to be in their (00:37:27) hands. Um, and it's a group of young (00:37:29) people who are coming up with some (00:37:31) incredible solutions for the problems (00:37:33) that they see. And they're the ones who (00:37:34) are leaning into this going, "No, you (00:37:36) can't just make these decisions that are (00:37:38) setting our future in a certain course. (00:37:40) We want to be part of these decisions. (00:37:42) We want a seat at the table and (00:37:44) everything that you've just described (00:37:45) there they have solutions for. And it (00:37:48) would be unthinkable from a business (00:37:50) standpoint not to have young people as (00:37:53) part of your as part of your decision-m (00:37:56) group. (00:37:56) >> Sure. (00:37:57) >> As part of your board. (00:37:58) >> Yeah. (00:37:58) >> But the more that they continue to push (00:38:01) kids, young people to one side, it (00:38:04) shouldn't use kids. We should really use (00:38:05) young people because, you know, a lot of (00:38:06) these guys, guys and girls are, you (00:38:08) know, 18, 21, 26, etc. (00:38:10) >> Yeah. Young adults. But the companies (00:38:12) keep pushing them to one side. No one's (00:38:14) really But and then then the question is (00:38:16) why? Why would you not want the (00:38:19) opinions, the solutions, the expertise (00:38:21) of the very people who who who literally (00:38:25) keep your keep your platforms going. I (00:38:28) mean well the incentive structure is the (00:38:30) last thing and the last domain to be (00:38:33) conquered is our minds and our time you (00:38:36) know (00:38:36) >> and on the sorry on the on the on the (00:38:38) other on the AI piece as well it's the (00:38:42) parents the parents network um we've now (00:38:46) joined forces with uh parents together (00:38:49) the exciting thing about that is a a a (00:38:51) joint or a concerted bigger more (00:38:54) powerful effort on the national on the (00:38:56) national level What parents Together did (00:38:58) recently was they put a group of (00:39:01) researchers for 50 hours on AI platforms (00:39:05) posing as children (00:39:07) and every single 5 minutes there was a (00:39:10) harmful interaction. (00:39:12) Now if you are someone who works within (00:39:15) those companies surely that would (00:39:17) concern you especially if you have (00:39:18) children and yet here we are (00:39:22) >> after 20 years of social media where the (00:39:23) same crazy stuff happened. (00:39:25) >> Sure. and the same kind of people and I (00:39:26) think at the core of this you haven't (00:39:28) asked this but the core of this is a (00:39:31) breakdown of trust because from where I (00:39:33) sit how can we trust the people behind (00:39:36) social media when we see the harm that (00:39:38) it's created (00:39:38) >> separately I mean did you (00:39:40) >> and now look at the and now look at this (00:39:41) it's the same kind of people (00:39:43) >> and I don't want to be sitting here (00:39:45) being [snorts] super critical of the (00:39:47) characters or the personalities of the (00:39:49) people that are making the decisions but (00:39:51) one thing that is seriously lacking is (00:39:54) EQ EQ, emotional intelligence. There's (00:39:57) probably arguably quite a lot of IQ (00:40:00) there, but there's not enough EQ. And I (00:40:03) think there's a tendency to to to to (00:40:07) create platforms and habits which the (00:40:11) creators themselves (00:40:14) were comfortable being in that (00:40:15) environment. The individual that can sit (00:40:17) in their bedroom behind their computer (00:40:18) coding, doing all this kind of stuff, (00:40:20) who was comfortable (00:40:21) >> Yeah. (00:40:22) >> being lonely. (00:40:23) >> Okay. (00:40:23) >> Right. Now these platforms are doing or (00:40:27) or forcing children in a way to become (00:40:29) more isolated while they're telling us (00:40:32) that it's connecting them. (00:40:33) >> Right. Right. To incentivize (00:40:35) this kind of lonely dark behavior (00:40:38) essentially. (00:40:38) >> Yes. (00:40:39) >> Right. (00:40:39) >> But it feels does it does it feel normal (00:40:42) to them? Does it feel normal to the (00:40:44) creators, the founders, the coders? Does (00:40:46) it feel normal to them that are they (00:40:48) turning around and going to the kids? (00:40:49) What could this what could possibly be (00:40:51) wrong? I feel comfortable in that (00:40:52) situation. I feel comfortable being in (00:40:54) my room. (00:40:55) >> Did you ever read the Walter Isacson (00:40:56) book about Steve Jobs? (00:40:57) >> No. (00:40:57) >> Okay. The moment of distrust that I got (00:40:59) after reading the Isacson book on jobs (00:41:01) was when he talked about (00:41:03) >> Steve Jobs saying that his own kids (00:41:06) don't have iPads (00:41:07) >> or iPhones. And when he said, "I don't (00:41:10) let my kids use the technology," I was (00:41:12) like, (00:41:13) >> "You got a drug dealer selling stuff and (00:41:15) he won't let his kids touch the (00:41:17) Heisenberg Blue." Clearly, there's (00:41:19) something here. Again, like I said, it (00:41:20) goes back (00:41:21) >> that's that's the same across the board. (00:41:22) Yeah. (00:41:23) >> It's not just him. It's it's it's it's (00:41:24) all of these men, dads, families. (00:41:27) >> So, you have two kids? (00:41:28) >> I do. (00:41:29) >> Do they use Tik Tok? (00:41:31) >> No, they're too young for that. (00:41:33) >> So, at what ages are they? (00:41:35) >> Uh, (00:41:37) eight and six. (00:41:38) >> Okay. (00:41:38) >> There's two paths, I think, which is to (00:41:40) to the benefit of humanity, to make our (00:41:43) lives (00:41:45) healthier, more robust, and to help (00:41:47) humanity at large. But I feel like the (00:41:51) stock market and the privatization of (00:41:53) these companies wants the (00:41:54) casinoification of these platforms (00:41:57) >> and everything you're talking about is a (00:41:59) is essentially just a dopamine casino. (00:42:02) >> Yeah. And and in short bursts it makes (00:42:04) you feel better, but the long-term harm (00:42:06) and damage is is immense. And and the (00:42:10) question really again posed to them is (00:42:12) how could you possibly serve something (00:42:15) up for our children that you deem unsafe (00:42:18) for your own children? (00:42:20) >> Yeah. They wouldn't have an answer. You (00:42:23) know, it would be this it would be the (00:42:24) same way they would describe a Big Mac, (00:42:27) a Whopper or candy of like, hey, I make (00:42:29) those things. I don't necessarily eat (00:42:31) them all the time. Proceed with caution. (00:42:33) Um, are you optimistic about the next 10 (00:42:36) years (00:42:37) >> uh regarding tech or just in general? (00:42:40) [laughter] (00:42:41) >> Well, let's let's answer both. Yeah. How (00:42:43) you feeling about both? (00:42:44) >> I I'm I'm optimistic because and I'm (00:42:46) hopeful because of the parents that we (00:42:49) work with, because of the people um that (00:42:53) are determined (00:42:55) for change. (00:42:56) >> Great. I think that over the years um (00:42:59) collectively the distrust um of (00:43:02) institutions (00:43:04) whether it's government media I just (00:43:07) don't think well I [snorts] it's not (00:43:08) that I don't think we now know that they (00:43:11) haven't been equipped enough to be able (00:43:14) to protect us the people from these (00:43:16) companies and I really hope that that (00:43:19) will change because that is ultimately (00:43:22) what they are in power to do and this (00:43:25) sort of rolling over for self not (00:43:29) preservation, self-interest, I think is (00:43:32) incredibly worrying and should concern (00:43:34) every single one of us. (00:43:36) >> We're going to ramp it down. (00:43:38) >> Going to ramp it down or ramp it up. (00:43:40) >> This is a (00:43:41) royal rapid fire. (00:43:42) >> A royal (00:43:43) >> between a Brit and an American. (00:43:46) >> It's a rapid fire. Okay. (00:43:47) >> This is a rapid fire. (00:43:48) >> Okay. (00:43:48) >> But you can you can wax poetic. (00:43:49) >> As long as it's not general knowledge. (00:43:52) [music] (00:43:55) Are you going to become a US citizen? (00:43:57) >> Am I going to become a US citizen? There (00:43:59) are no plans to be at this point. (00:44:01) >> Nicely done. (00:44:03) >> Um, are there things that used to (00:44:05) confuse you about America that you now (00:44:07) understand now that you've lived here (00:44:08) for five? (00:44:09) >> No, it's become more confusing. (00:44:12) >> It's become way more confusing. (00:44:14) >> Okay. (00:44:14) >> What do your kids think you do? (00:44:18) >> Uh, that's a good question. What do they (00:44:20) think that I do? (00:44:21) >> What do they think dad does? Um, they (00:44:24) know they they they know that they know (00:44:25) that we help other people, but they (00:44:28) don't know that when you go to work, (00:44:30) what do they think you do? So, like my (00:44:32) daughter comes over. (00:44:33) >> Yeah. (00:44:33) >> So, she came to the office yesterday. We (00:44:35) were lighting and setting this up, (00:44:36) right? (00:44:37) >> And she she thinks I she thinks I do (00:44:38) this. She goes she comes over. She goes, (00:44:40) "Hello. (00:44:42) Hi. (00:44:44) Hey." She thinks I do this. (00:44:45) >> Yeah. (00:44:46) >> When you're like, "Daddy's on a call." (00:44:47) >> No. All they all they're interested in (00:44:49) is saying hi to the people on the call. (00:44:51) >> Okay. It's they like you know they all (00:44:54) or they all or they they're fascinated (00:44:56) to see other people. They love seeing (00:44:58) familiar faces but they will run in and (00:45:01) this the kind occasionally there was the (00:45:02) moment where there's a hand on the (00:45:03) forehead saying not now. (00:45:05) >> Got it. (00:45:06) >> Um but then they just barge in. They (00:45:07) jump on the lap say hi guys. (00:45:10) >> You know not to brag but I was a (00:45:11) political science major at UC Davis. (00:45:13) >> You should brag about that. (00:45:14) >> 60 units. It's pretty good. (00:45:15) >> That's great. Uh thank you so much. And (00:45:16) now look at you. (00:45:17) >> Look at me now. (00:45:18) >> We're on YouTube with me. (00:45:19) >> What do I need to do to get kned? (00:45:22) Um, what do you need to do to get (00:45:25) knited? We can have I mean we can we can (00:45:27) probably discuss this offline. (00:45:28) >> Sure. (00:45:29) >> Um, (00:45:29) >> no because you know my daughter she (00:45:30) she'll do this thing where she (00:45:31) >> if you have a sword we can do it (00:45:33) afterwards. (00:45:33) >> So she has kind of like a fairy wand and (00:45:36) she'll do this on the right shoulder and (00:45:37) the left shoulder. (00:45:38) >> Where did she learn that from? (00:45:39) >> Or are you are you teaching her to do (00:45:40) it? (00:45:41) >> She just does it. (00:45:42) >> I'm sure. Yeah. (00:45:43) >> You are a knight. And I go Okay. (00:45:46) >> Okay. Well, there you go. Well, so so we (00:45:49) can talk about that. (00:45:49) >> It sounds like it's already been done. (00:45:51) >> Who do you want to play the next James (00:45:52) Bond? [snorts] (00:45:54) >> Uh, at this point you [laughter] (00:45:57) I think that could be quite fun. (00:46:02) >> Who do you want? (00:46:05) I think you said it. (00:46:09) [laughter] (00:46:11) It's the It's decided then. I can (00:46:13) certainly put in a good word for you. (00:46:14) >> Please do. Any questions for me? (00:46:17) >> I have a question. I feel like I fired (00:46:18) quite a few questions back at you. (00:46:20) >> Talk to me. (00:46:21) >> Talk to me. (00:46:21) >> What do you want to know? (00:46:22) >> Why did you do Why did you start this (00:46:24) podcast? (00:46:24) >> One of the worst sentences a (00:46:26) heterosexual man can say is, "I heard (00:46:28) this on the podcast." I like to lead (00:46:30) with what this is. I do not know. (00:46:35) >> And so I sit down with industry experts (00:46:37) and world leaders and people with deep (00:46:40) domain knowledge to talk about the work (00:46:41) that they're doing. It is a podcast (00:46:44) where a dumb person asks interesting (00:46:47) people important questions. And I think (00:46:50) hopefully, I mean this sincerely, this (00:46:52) can be the beginning of a way in which (00:46:55) people can engage deeper with someone's (00:46:59) work. (00:46:59) >> So you're connecting people with (00:47:01) stories, with facts, and information (00:47:03) that they otherwise wouldn't find. (00:47:04) >> Yeah. Art and culture is a conduit. It's (00:47:06) not the answer in and of itself. It's (00:47:07) the beginning of something. So yeah, (00:47:09) that that's really the point of the (00:47:10) podcast to have these really beautiful (00:47:13) uh conversations and you know I I have (00:47:15) been given the unique opportunity to (00:47:16) meet people like yourself. Maybe I can (00:47:18) use these platforms and the devices the (00:47:20) same way in which reading rainbow and (00:47:23) other programs like impacted me in a (00:47:25) really positive way. (00:47:26) >> So keeping it silly, keeping it sincere. (00:47:29) >> And how do you keep it um entertaining (00:47:32) >> um (00:47:32) >> humorous? This was a very dark subject (00:47:36) matter that we (00:47:37) >> so I apologize for people. No, (00:47:39) >> but it's look, it's but it's but it's (00:47:41) it's really it's it's it's important. (00:47:42) >> But like having a conversation, you (00:47:44) vacasillate between the two, you know, (00:47:46) you make people do silly things like say (00:47:49) ye-ha or you ask to be kned arbitrarily (00:47:51) >> when you're already kned. (00:47:53) >> I mean, that was by my daughter. Well, (00:47:55) >> doesn't matter. All you need is a sword. (00:47:56) >> Maybe that is the highest of titles to (00:47:58) be kned by one's daughter. And by the (00:47:59) way, she is a queen. (00:48:01) >> Mhm. (00:48:03) You know, don't mind (00:48:04) >> Indians, we've been looking to stick it (00:48:06) to the monarchy, but my daughter is an (00:48:08) Indian queen and she knited me. (00:48:10) >> It's very cool. (00:48:11) >> Isn't that beautiful? (00:48:12) >> It's a very, very beautiful thing. (00:48:14) >> We're talking um one week after one of (00:48:18) your childhood heroes passed away, Jane (00:48:20) Goodall. (00:48:22) >> I want to show you a clip from her final (00:48:25) interview that she asked to be released (00:48:29) after she passed away. Let's take a (00:48:31) look. Without hope, we fall into apathy (00:48:34) and do nothing. And in the dark times (00:48:38) that we are living in now, if people (00:48:42) don't have hope, we're doomed. (00:48:44) And how can we bring little children (00:48:47) into this dark world we've created and (00:48:50) let them be surrounded by people who've (00:48:52) given up? M (00:48:54) >> so even even if this is the end of (00:48:57) humanity as we know it, let's fight to (00:49:00) the very end. Let's let the children (00:49:03) know, you know, that there is hope if (00:49:05) they get together. (00:49:09) >> What did Jane Goodall's work mean to you (00:49:13) and for the world? (00:49:15) Jane was um (00:49:18) one of the last remaining individuals (00:49:22) with a true moral compass. (00:49:25) She traveled more than anybody else I (00:49:27) know all the way up until when she died, (00:49:30) constantly on planes, constantly (00:49:32) working, constantly (00:49:34) going to communities, especially of (00:49:36) young people through her roots and (00:49:38) shoots program and mobilizing the youth (00:49:40) and giving them the confidence and the (00:49:43) power to speak up for themselves. Yeah, (00:49:47) I I echo exactly what she said there. (00:49:49) All of it, every single word. It's very (00:49:52) rare, man, that in the world there's (00:49:53) people like that that are the real deal. (00:49:55) They're really living it and they live (00:49:57) it till their dying day. In the moments (00:49:59) where I go to a place of nihilism, I (00:50:01) remember there are people like her that (00:50:02) exist. Was there a particular moment (00:50:04) where (00:50:05) >> you were you were like, I have to meet (00:50:06) this person. This person is a (00:50:08) >> she's um (00:50:09) >> amazing sage. Yeah, she's a she's a (00:50:11) compassionate leader and she's more (00:50:14) she's she is exactly what we need more (00:50:16) of today and (00:50:19) the world is is is worse off without her (00:50:21) for sure. I think that her commitment, (00:50:24) her love, her passion, her authenticity, (00:50:26) to the work, especially to wildlife, to (00:50:30) our planet, um she knew what she was (00:50:33) talking about. Um she had a connection (00:50:36) to she had a connection to to mother (00:50:38) nature. um that so many of us would (00:50:42) would long for. Um so there's a lot that (00:50:45) we can learn from what Jane has done, (00:50:47) what she said, how she lived her life. (00:50:50) Um and hopefully we can, you know, take (00:50:53) her words and use them wisely for (00:50:56) ourselves and rise up peacefully and (00:51:00) [snorts] to create the future that we (00:51:02) that we all collectively deserve. (00:51:06) >> Cool. (00:51:06) >> Cool. (00:51:07) >> Thanks for being a part of this, man. (00:51:08) Cool. This was really, really fun. This (00:51:10) is a great conversation. [music] (00:51:19) [music] (00:51:19) >> Hey, it's me, Hassan. I am here to (00:51:21) panhandle. Not for money, [singing] for (00:51:23) subscribers. [music] Apparently, 70% of (00:51:26) you guys won't commit to me. You want to (00:51:28) kick it and listen weekly, but you can't (00:51:30) admit that we like each other. Just (00:51:32) submit it. We're vibing. Now, if you're (00:51:34) serious about this relationship, [music] (00:51:35) hit the follow or subscribe button (00:51:37) wherever you watch or listen. And if you (00:51:39) don't, well, okay. (00:51:42) >> Message received. But just so you know, (00:51:45) I will be seeing other audiences.