Marc Andreessen on TBPN May 14th, 2025 (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) Welcome. How are you doing, Mark? Hey (00:00:02) guys, what's happening? (00:00:04) It's been a great I'm gonna hit this (00:00:06) real quick. The sound effect board. Uh, (00:00:08) thanks so much for joining us. Um, and (00:00:10) thanks for wearing us. Thanks for (00:00:12) wearing a suit. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. (00:00:14) Yeah, you look special occasion. Yeah, (00:00:15) special occasion. (00:00:17) By the way, congratulations on the (00:00:19) podcast. I just wanted to start out by (00:00:20) saying I've been watching. It's just it (00:00:21) was tremendous. Thank you so much. Well, (00:00:23) you know, I have a funny story. We uh (00:00:25) the the moment that I realized that you (00:00:27) were maybe paying a little bit of (00:00:28) attention to what we were doing and it (00:00:29) gave me some conviction that we were on (00:00:31) the right track is we we did a reply guy (00:00:33) of the week to this guy Baldo and it was (00:00:36) like this inside joke and I was like (00:00:38) holy Mark just followed Baldo very (00:00:41) talented guy but u but yeah so it's it's (00:00:43) thank you for uh for following along and (00:00:45) it's been awesome talking to your whole (00:00:46) team today. They're fantastic. Um so (00:00:49) let's go through some hot topics. Uh I (00:00:51) want to start with we're in the AI era. (00:00:53) uh you obviously live through the dotcom (00:00:55) era. There's some comparisons. What have (00:00:57) you learned and what uh how is this time (00:01:00) different uh companies are making more (00:01:02) money, valuations are high, but uh how (00:01:04) are you thinking about uh teaching the (00:01:07) next generation what they should learn (00:01:09) or what they should ignore from the (00:01:10) people that might say this is the dot (00:01:12) boom 2.0. Yeah. So look, I guess I say I (00:01:15) think as Mark Twain once said, history (00:01:17) doesn't repeat, but it rhymes. And so, (00:01:19) you know, I think people looking for (00:01:20) like a direct compare contrast. (00:01:21) Sometimes you see people like drawing (00:01:22) charts or the stock market's going to do (00:01:23) the same thing or whatever. Like I don't (00:01:25) think that stuff ever quite happens that (00:01:26) way, but you know it does rhyme. Um and (00:01:29) you know the line that John Door had in (00:01:30) 1995 I remember was that the internet is (00:01:32) a cream that you rub on investors to get (00:01:34) them all excited. (00:01:36) Uh so (00:01:40) John Door said that. That's hilarious. (00:01:41) Yes. Yes. I had many I had many many (00:01:44) John (00:01:47) Oh yeah. Exactly. Um but um uh you know (00:01:50) so you know AI's like that now um you (00:01:52) know look the AI sorry the internet went (00:01:54) through you know went through phases (00:01:56) people actually forget but there was (00:01:57) like you know there were like these even (00:01:58) the phases like on the way up from you (00:02:00) know 95 to 2000 um you know there were (00:02:02) these phases of like skepticism and (00:02:04) panic um you know it looked like the (00:02:06) whole thing was going to fall apart in (00:02:06) '98 and then you know in 2001 you know (00:02:09) after the crash you know like all the (00:02:11) big companies just like completely wrote (00:02:13) the internet off and they just said you (00:02:14) know thank god that's over um and then (00:02:16) and then the internet itself just kept (00:02:17) growing. Right. And then you know by (00:02:19) 2005 it was back to you know kind of (00:02:20) back you know back to back to where it (00:02:21) had it been before and we you know the (00:02:23) rest was was history. And so you know (00:02:25) you know people kind of go people are (00:02:27) kind of bipolar on these things. They (00:02:28) kind of get overly excited. They get (00:02:30) overly depressed. I you know I just (00:02:32) always thought then and I think now the (00:02:33) substance matters you know the sub (00:02:34) substance overwhelming overwhelmingly (00:02:36) matters. And so you know is is is is the (00:02:39) technology great? Like are the products (00:02:41) great? Are people using them? And you (00:02:43) know AI is like off to the races so far (00:02:45) with just like unprecedented rate of (00:02:46) growth of actual use. Yeah. Right. Um (00:02:49) you see that in in in all the numbers (00:02:51) and then um you know look the businesses (00:02:52) I I you know I just I talked to another (00:02:54) conversation yesterday with like you (00:02:56) know a company that's raised seed money. (00:02:57) They're already over 10 million AR with (00:02:59) this incredible you know like it's just (00:03:00) and you know there's like a there's a (00:03:01) lot of those like you know they're all (00:03:03) over the place. And so you know the the (00:03:04) the the things that are working the (00:03:06) products are fantastic. um you know the (00:03:08) users are getting tremendous value out (00:03:09) of them and and the and and as you know (00:03:11) the base technology is moving really (00:03:12) fast so I feel really good about it. (00:03:13) Yeah, I mean it can move faster because (00:03:15) we have the internet. Like the these (00:03:17) apps can get to hundreds of millions of (00:03:19) daily active users because there's (00:03:20) hundreds of millions of people. There's (00:03:21) billions of people on the internet. Uh (00:03:23) very interesting. Uh not to linger on (00:03:25) the dot stuff too much, but I'd love to (00:03:28) know uh a little bit of a history lesson (00:03:30) around the way the browser wars played (00:03:33) out and is there anything you can learn (00:03:35) from that that applies to the (00:03:36) open-source versus closed sourced AI (00:03:39) debate? You've been very opinionated on (00:03:41) that. I'd love to know kind of if is (00:03:43) there are there any previous eras of (00:03:45) tech that you're mapping to when you (00:03:47) think about open source AI. Yeah. So, (00:03:49) you know, look, you know, a lot of the (00:03:51) browser wars, you know, there was kind (00:03:52) of a big comp little company kind of big (00:03:53) company thing and, you know, I think (00:03:54) that's repeating itself and, you know, I (00:03:56) think one one of the ways to think about (00:03:57) what's happening right now is OpenAI is (00:03:59) kind of growing up to become Google and (00:04:00) Google's kind of, you know, re (00:04:02) reinventing itself to be open AI and so, (00:04:03) you know, there's like a similar thing (00:04:04) there and, you know, and then, you know, (00:04:06) look, Microsoft and Apple and Google (00:04:07) control the operating systems, you know, (00:04:09) for for end user devices and they all (00:04:11) have, you know, AI strategies um and (00:04:13) Amazon as well. So, you know, a lot a (00:04:14) lot of those issues are going to are (00:04:15) going to come back up. you know, two two (00:04:17) of these big companies are actually on (00:04:18) federal trial right now, you know, in (00:04:20) big FTC cases in in uh in Washington DC, (00:04:22) actually in the same courtroom. Um, and (00:04:24) so, you know, that many of those issues (00:04:25) will will repeat or, you know, will be (00:04:27) intense. Um, you know, the open source (00:04:29) thing in tech has always been the wild (00:04:30) card. Um, I I think it's always been an (00:04:32) incredibly positive wild card. You know, (00:04:34) I've always been, you know, enthusiastic (00:04:36) supporter of it. My original work was (00:04:37) all open source. Um and so you know the (00:04:39) real thing that happened with open (00:04:40) source is in operating systems you know (00:04:42) basically Unix won and then and then you (00:04:44) know specifically Linux one you know for (00:04:46) everything on on on the back end and I (00:04:48) you know like you you know I remember (00:04:50) like in the 1990s there was like a (00:04:51) furious operating system war and there (00:04:52) were these companies that were making (00:04:53) huge amounts of money on server (00:04:54) operating systems you know companies (00:04:56) like Sun and many others and then you (00:04:58) know Linux just like commoditized that (00:05:00) entire thing. Yeah. you know, I think (00:05:02) it's plausible, you know, we'll see, but (00:05:03) it look, it's plausible that open source (00:05:05) AI may just be the standard like it it, (00:05:07) you know, and whether whether that deres (00:05:08) out of, you know, Deepseeker Lama or, (00:05:10) you know, any of the other new things (00:05:11) that are coming out, you know, we'll (00:05:12) see. But like I think that's entirely (00:05:14) feasible and, you know, I think that (00:05:15) would be obviously, you know, there are (00:05:16) companies that would have to adjust to (00:05:17) that if it happens. But the other side (00:05:19) is if if kind of the world had AI for (00:05:21) free, um, I I think that would be a (00:05:22) pretty magical result also. Yeah, (00:05:24) totally. I mean, shifting to the geopol (00:05:26) the geopolitics of all this, is it (00:05:28) important not just that there's an open- (00:05:30) source champion, but that there's an (00:05:32) American open-source champion or a (00:05:34) western open-source LLM? Yeah, I I (00:05:38) believe so. Um, and I believe so for two (00:05:40) reasons. One is just actually cultural (00:05:41) reasons. Um, which is just, you know, (00:05:43) the, you know, open weights is great, (00:05:45) but like the open weights like they're (00:05:47) baked, right? Like the the the training (00:05:49) is in the weights and you can't really (00:05:50) undo that. Um and so and and and so are (00:05:53) you being trained by, you know, a (00:05:55) company or an organization or set of (00:05:56) people with American or Western values? (00:05:58) Are you being trained, you know, by by (00:05:59) by, you know, company with with Chinese (00:06:00) values? Um and look, you know, there's (00:06:03) issues on both sides. You know, they (00:06:04) they you know, the American train models (00:06:05) have their have their issues. They have (00:06:06) their weirdnesses, you know, but the (00:06:08) Chinese train models, you know, look, (00:06:09) they they like score really well. You (00:06:11) know, they literally in the Chinese (00:06:12) benchmarks, they literally have like (00:06:13) line items for like Marxism, right? (00:06:16) Right. And you know, Deep Seek like is (00:06:18) like a 100 out of 100 on Marxism. And so (00:06:20) let's hear it for deep sea. Really (00:06:21) knocked it out of the park with that (00:06:22) one. Congratulations. Yeah, exactly. (00:06:24) It's fantastic, right? And so it's like, (00:06:26) all right, so these are going to be, you (00:06:27) know, this is going to be the technology (00:06:28) that's going to intermediate your the (00:06:30) legal system, right? The courts, the (00:06:32) education system, the medical system, (00:06:35) like you know, how, you know, you want (00:06:36) your, you know, if you guys have kids, (00:06:37) like do you want your kids to, you know, (00:06:39) your kids are going to be learning from (00:06:40) these things their whole lives. Um, and (00:06:42) you know, do do they have, you know, do (00:06:44) they fundamentally have Western values? (00:06:45) Do they or do they have, you know, sort (00:06:46) of, you know, CCP values? I think is (00:06:48) really critical. And then the other (00:06:49) thing just I would say just close your (00:06:51) eyes and just imagine two states of the (00:06:52) world. One is which the entire world (00:06:54) runs an American open source LLM and the (00:06:56) the other is where the entire world (00:06:58) including the US runs on all Chinese (00:06:59) software. And I you know I don't know (00:07:01) for me that's a you know very (00:07:02) straightforward it's a very important (00:07:03) topic and a very straightforward answer. (00:07:05) Yeah. I mean, in in the American (00:07:06) Dynamism context, is it kind of mission (00:07:10) accomplished there, or are there new (00:07:12) territories that you're looking to (00:07:14) expand into with the broader American (00:07:16) Dynamism thesis? Uh, we talked to DU (00:07:19) about energy and whatnot, but what is (00:07:22) exciting about you outside of artificial (00:07:24) intelligence on the national interest (00:07:27) investing side? Yeah. So, I mean, look, (00:07:30) we made tremendous progress. I'm super (00:07:31) proud of that team. And then you know (00:07:33) this this in this new political (00:07:34) environment the new administration has (00:07:36) embraced it but also a lot of Democrats (00:07:38) are actually quite excited about it also (00:07:39) and our you know our event that we hold (00:07:40) has has lots of people from both (00:07:42) parties. So I think there's a you know (00:07:43) there's this unified view now I think in (00:07:44) the American at least in in the (00:07:46) political world of like all right it's (00:07:47) it's time you know it's time for the US (00:07:48) to step up on a lot of these things. Um (00:07:50) it's time for the US to build more. Um (00:07:52) it's time for the US to you know (00:07:53) reinvent energy. It's it's time for (00:07:54) nuclear um you know it's time for you (00:07:57) know infrastructure you know housing (00:07:58) like all these things. Um and so you (00:08:01) know I think there's a lot of momentum. (00:08:02) I think we're at the very beginning of (00:08:03) it. Um you know like one of the ways to (00:08:06) think about what we're doing American (00:08:07) dynamism is we're going after all the (00:08:08) sectors of GDP that are like really big (00:08:11) and not yet basically affected by tech. (00:08:13) And so education, healthcare, housing, (00:08:16) uh defense, law, you know just to pick (00:08:18) five. Um you know those are giant (00:08:21) important slices of the economy that (00:08:22) largely have not been transformed by (00:08:24) technology in the last 50 years. You (00:08:25) know, the US defense department spends, (00:08:27) you know, it's coming up in a trillion (00:08:29) dollars. Very little of that money is (00:08:30) going to technologies and companies that (00:08:32) have been invented, frankly, in the last (00:08:33) 20 years. You know, most military (00:08:36) hardware in the Department of Defense (00:08:37) is, you know, the F-16 is from the (00:08:38) 1970s. Uh, right. Like the the US uh (00:08:41) plane that does high altitude (00:08:43) photography, the high high altitude spy (00:08:44) plane, it's still the U2. Yeah. Which is (00:08:47) it's just like literally a 70-y old (00:08:48) plane. So, like there's just like (00:08:50) enormous changes um you know, that (00:08:53) really have to happen. And I think (00:08:54) everybody kind of in the system knows (00:08:56) that, but it's hard to get there. And I (00:08:57) think, you know, a big part of that is, (00:08:58) you know, these new companies, you know, (00:09:00) that we're, you know, that we that we (00:09:01) try to support, you know, they they need (00:09:02) to show up and make their case. But, um, (00:09:04) you know, the entrepreneurs are (00:09:05) fantastic. And then, you know, we we see (00:09:07) more receptivity coming from the the (00:09:08) system than we ever have. Yeah. Talk (00:09:11) about the, uh, kind of position, the (00:09:13) position that the firm is in today. In (00:09:15) many ways, it feels like you and Ben and (00:09:17) the team had somewhat of a crystal ball (00:09:19) to see how the private markets were (00:09:21) evolving, companies staying private (00:09:23) longer. AI being this massive platform (00:09:26) shift that's going to upend, you know, (00:09:28) every industry, and then now the sort of (00:09:30) political environment that enables (00:09:32) industries to kind of get a a second or (00:09:35) third life. Uh, did you just get lucky (00:09:38) or or did you see a lot of this coming? (00:09:40) I mean, I think we got a few things (00:09:42) right. We got a bunch of stuff wrong. (00:09:43) Um, you know, we we buried those ideas (00:09:45) out back behind the shed. Uh, we talk (00:09:47) about those. So, you know, we made a (00:09:49) bunch of mistakes along the way or (00:09:50) changed changed a bunch of things, but (00:09:51) um, you know, we we got a few big things (00:09:53) right. You know, I I think the things I (00:09:55) think we got right, you know, one is (00:09:56) look, the venture ecosystem, as you guys (00:09:58) know, has just evolved enormously um, in (00:09:59) a very positive way. And the kind of old (00:10:01) model of having a sort of a bunch of (00:10:03) kind of mid-size firms, they kind of sit (00:10:04) on Sand Hill Road and wait for the (00:10:06) founders to, you know, to come in like (00:10:07) that that you know, those days are kind (00:10:08) of over. you you have the rise of the (00:10:10) high scale, you know, firms like like (00:10:12) us, but you also have the rise of all (00:10:13) these seed and angel investors um you (00:10:15) know that that are really, you know, (00:10:16) first money in and then really working (00:10:17) closely with founders from the very (00:10:19) beginning and I think that that (00:10:20) ecosystem is healthier than ever and (00:10:22) doing really well and so that you know (00:10:23) that's been a big change um you know on (00:10:25) the IPOs like I I don't know I would say (00:10:27) we have changed on that which is I used (00:10:28) to I used to complain a lot like I used (00:10:30) to give these interviews years ago and (00:10:32) you know like early 2010s and just (00:10:34) complain about like the that it was (00:10:36) basically becoming impossible for (00:10:37) companies to go public and you know the (00:10:38) things that had had caused that to (00:10:39) happen and what needed to change. And (00:10:41) then, you know, of course, nothing (00:10:43) happened like you know, there were no (00:10:45) reforms. You know, there there were no (00:10:46) improvements. If anything, everything (00:10:47) got worse. Um, and so, you know, we and (00:10:50) others adapted to that by, you know, by (00:10:52) basically putting, you know, putting (00:10:53) ourselves in a position to fund (00:10:54) companies, you know, later in their life (00:10:56) cycle at higher higher, you know, big (00:10:58) larger amounts of money, you know, later (00:10:59) growth stages. Um, and, you know, it's (00:11:01) now much more common for companies to do (00:11:02) these tenders and these kind of private, (00:11:04) you know, private sales even for their (00:11:05) employees, you know. So, that's been a (00:11:07) big change. Um, you know, but look, I (00:11:09) don't know, maybe the best directional (00:11:10) bet we made was just technology was (00:11:12) going to keep becoming more important. (00:11:13) It's just like in in every area of our (00:11:15) life, the the the bet that you know, in (00:11:16) in sector X, tech is going to be more (00:11:18) important. There are going to be big (00:11:19) tech companies built. They're going to (00:11:20) really matter. Um, you that that I think (00:11:23) is I think that's a very good bet. I (00:11:24) think frankly like I don't it's hard for (00:11:26) me to ever see that ending. Yeah. What (00:11:29) are you uh you know, you guys are are (00:11:31) with your LPs today, tomorrow. Uh what (00:11:34) are you hoping they they take away from (00:11:36) the event? (00:11:37) Oh, so um this is not a John Door quote, (00:11:39) but I'll give you another quote. Uh uh (00:11:41) when we were raising money originally, (00:11:43) we're going around we're going to we (00:11:45) raised our first fund in 2009 and you (00:11:47) know the world had you know completely (00:11:48) collapsed after the financial crisis and (00:11:50) um we you know went around and we sort (00:11:51) of briefed all the all the um all the (00:11:54) all the you know all the venture VCs we (00:11:55) respected uh to just give them a heads (00:11:57) up what we're doing. Um and um one of (00:11:59) the GPS took us aside at the end and (00:12:01) said you know you guys have been dealing (00:12:02) with like these you know very smart (00:12:04) public market investors. Uh he said, (00:12:05) "You know, you're gonna the part of the (00:12:07) job you're gonna hate the most is is (00:12:08) working with these LPS. You know, (00:12:09) they're just terrible." Um and he said, (00:12:11) "The key is you need to treat them like (00:12:12) mushrooms." Um you uh put the you put (00:12:15) them in a cardboard box. You put the lid (00:12:16) on the cardboard box and you put the box (00:12:17) under the bed and you don't open it for (00:12:19) two years. (00:12:22) Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. They're (00:12:23) like, "What? What's the markup today?" (00:12:26) That was done for somebody else. That (00:12:27) was not John. Um, and so, uh, you know, (00:12:29) look, the the view Ben and I always had (00:12:31) was the exact opposite of that, you (00:12:32) know, which is our investors are our (00:12:34) partners, you know, and, you know, look, (00:12:35) that's how we want to be treated by the (00:12:36) companies we invest in. Um, you know, (00:12:38) that's how we always, you know, viewed (00:12:39) it when we were running public (00:12:40) companies. Um, our investors are our (00:12:42) partners. You know, they're they're (00:12:43) they're they're in it with us together. (00:12:45) You know, we're they're they're making a (00:12:47) big bet on us and trusting us. And then, (00:12:48) you know, look, correspondingly, the (00:12:50) promise that we made to them is like, (00:12:51) look, we're going to try to like (00:12:52) deliver, you know, excellent returns, (00:12:54) but in this business, it's just going to (00:12:55) take a long time. And you know the the (00:12:57) you know you guys know this for for any (00:12:58) company that really succeeds it takes (00:13:00) you know 10 20 30 years you know to to (00:13:03) really have it succeed and like and (00:13:04) along the ways along the way like a lot (00:13:06) of things happen you know everything (00:13:07) from negative headlines to you know (00:13:08) lawsuits disasters chaos you know all (00:13:11) kinds of crazy you know twists and turns (00:13:12) changes happen along the way um and so I (00:13:14) just think it's like really important (00:13:15) for us as a firm like we really always (00:13:17) need to make sure that we're treating (00:13:18) our LPS as full partners and so we what (00:13:20) we're trying to do is be as just really (00:13:22) like open the kimono all the way show (00:13:24) them everything kind of expose them to (00:13:25) everything that we're make sure they (00:13:26) really understand it, go as deep as they (00:13:28) want to go on the on the technology and (00:13:30) on the companies and I, you know, this (00:13:31) is like year 15 of this for us and and (00:13:33) so forth that I think they would say (00:13:34) that that's gone well. That's great. Uh, (00:13:36) last question from me. Uh, just general (00:13:39) advice for the next generation of (00:13:40) entrepreneurs. Are you hoping more (00:13:42) college, less college, more coding, less (00:13:44) coding, like there's a ton of (00:13:45) technological change right now. How can (00:13:47) the next generation of entrepreneurs set (00:13:48) themselves up for success? Yeah. So (00:13:51) there's an old Steve Martin uh uh Steve (00:13:53) Martin line u he wrote this great book (00:13:55) on on how to be a successful standup (00:13:56) comedian. Um it was just you know short (00:13:58) short little book really well written (00:13:59) and you know every aspiring comedian in (00:14:01) the world open it up and says Steve (00:14:03) Martin's you know advice for being a (00:14:04) great stand-up comedian and it was be so (00:14:06) good they can't ignore you right it's (00:14:09) like okay thank you Mr. Martin. Um you (00:14:12) know I'll get right on that. Um but like (00:14:13) that that remains the best advice I (00:14:15) think which is just like quality like we (00:14:17) said like quality bears out like quality (00:14:19) shows. Um and so you know a an you know (00:14:22) really excellent thinking um coupled (00:14:24) with a high degree of you know energy (00:14:26) and courage um you know team building a (00:14:28) great team and then a great product you (00:14:29) know and a real you know insight into a (00:14:31) market with customers figuring out how (00:14:33) to design you know not just design a (00:14:34) product but also design a business like (00:14:37) that's basically like my my view my view (00:14:39) of that as an entrepreneur always like (00:14:40) that's my job as an entrepreneur um and (00:14:42) like if I you know if I put a lot of (00:14:44) time and effort into that I'm very (00:14:45) serious about it I can hopefully do a (00:14:46) good job and I think time spent (00:14:48) improving the quality of the thing the (00:14:50) the product and the business is almost (00:14:52) always better than time spent trying to (00:14:54) you know is I don't know networking or (00:14:56) you know publishing a presentation or (00:14:58) you know trying to get positive press (00:14:59) coverage or kind of all the external (00:15:01) stuff. Um and so it's really it's really (00:15:03) the quality of the thing and then you (00:15:04) know again you know my hope would be (00:15:05) that like we as a firm and others like (00:15:06) us like that we really you know that we (00:15:08) really recognize that and see it you (00:15:09) know see it you know kind of see it when (00:15:11) it shows up and I think that's the thing (00:15:12) and then I think the other thing would (00:15:13) be look like AI is superpowers right and (00:15:16) like if you as a founder have access to (00:15:19) you know just a you know say chat GPT (00:15:21) deep research it's just like oh you know (00:15:23) it's just like oh my god like I I have a (00:15:25) you know like I have a PhD level it used (00:15:28) to be so hard to get information right (00:15:30) um and it and it and And it's been so (00:15:32) hard, you know, even still to figure out (00:15:33) what to do with it. And so to now have (00:15:35) this tool, you know, these tools for (00:15:36) thinking through everything and, you (00:15:38) know, increasingly being able to do (00:15:39) things like write code. Um, you know, we (00:15:41) ought to see a generation of of founders (00:15:43) here that are just like incredibly (00:15:44) capable, uh, you know, relative to to, (00:15:46) you know, to what to what we used to be (00:15:48) like. Um, and you know, and we're (00:15:49) starting to see those. We're starting to (00:15:50) see, you know, I say a handful of those. (00:15:52) You know, that said, I'm still waiting (00:15:54) for like the real conceptual (00:15:55) breakthroughs. like I'm I'm still (00:15:56) waiting for the you know the you know (00:15:58) the company where it's like you know (00:15:59) it's got a thousand employees 999 are (00:16:01) bots like you know I haven't seen that (00:16:02) yet. Um and you know some somebody's (00:16:05) going to really figure out uh how to use (00:16:07) this technology to really not not just (00:16:08) bring a product to market but like (00:16:10) fundamentally change how companies (00:16:11) operate and I think that's probably (00:16:12) that's probably the next big unlock. How (00:16:14) do you think about uh an individual's (00:16:17) edge around their own proprietary (00:16:19) knowledge? There had been talk of with (00:16:21) Warren Buffett, you know, retiring. He (00:16:24) read something like a 100,000 plus (00:16:26) earnings transcripts. He had this (00:16:28) incredible recall. You're often credited (00:16:30) with having this incredible recall and (00:16:32) it certainly gives can give you an edge (00:16:34) in thinking through, you know, net new (00:16:36) opportunities and decisions. Um, do you (00:16:39) do you think that edge remains in a (00:16:41) world where all human knowledge is (00:16:43) accessible in a single query or or (00:16:47) what's your kind of mental model there? (00:16:49) Yeah. So I think it's going to be I mean (00:16:51) look I think there's basically like two (00:16:52) ways to really have a differentiated (00:16:54) edge like uh in general right there's (00:16:55) sort of you know there's kind of go deep (00:16:57) or go broad. Um you know go deep has (00:16:59) kind of become a more and more (00:17:00) specialized expert over time and and you (00:17:01) know look there are domains in which (00:17:02) that like really matters. You know (00:17:03) biotech and and and things like or you (00:17:05) know by the way designing you know AI (00:17:07) you know working on AI foundation models (00:17:08) like that that stuff really matters. The (00:17:10) deeper you are the better. Um so there's (00:17:12) you know certain fields where that (00:17:13) really matters. I think for most fields (00:17:15) though now with these new tools I would (00:17:17) probably bet more on basically people (00:17:19) who are able to be broad. um which is to (00:17:22) say basically can you know something (00:17:24) about a lot of different you know kind (00:17:25) of aspects of life and how the world (00:17:27) works and then you can use the tool you (00:17:30) can use the AI to go deep whenever you (00:17:31) need to but then your job as the human (00:17:34) is to basically then you know basically (00:17:35) cross the domains uh across the (00:17:37) disciplines and and look and look you (00:17:38) see this if you talk to any like the (00:17:39) great CEOs you see you know you kind of (00:17:41) see this which is like the really great (00:17:43) CEOs they're great product people and (00:17:45) they're great sales people and they're (00:17:46) great marketing people and they're you (00:17:47) know and they're great legal thinkers (00:17:48) and they're great finance people and (00:17:50) they're great with investors and they're (00:17:51) great with the press, right? And so it's (00:17:52) it's this it's this it's you know this (00:17:54) sort of multi-disiplinary you know kind (00:17:55) of approach uh and being able to cross (00:17:57) domains and I you know and I don't know (00:17:59) we'll see we'll see how good you know (00:18:00) we'll see how good the AI gets at that (00:18:01) hopefully it gets good at that also but (00:18:03) um you know that's that in a lot of way (00:18:05) you know the entrepreneur has always (00:18:06) kind of had the burden um of you know (00:18:08) for somebody who wants to do something (00:18:09) serious like they have to be like that (00:18:10) at least to some extent um and you know (00:18:13) the the the best entrepreneurs of the (00:18:14) future I think will probably be like (00:18:16) quite skilled at like six or eight (00:18:17) things and then able to kind of cross (00:18:18) and combine them. How do you think about (00:18:20) the responsibility of the venture (00:18:23) industry broadly to try to influence uh (00:18:27) you know world you know outcomes in the (00:18:29) world? Uh I was sort of laughing uh you (00:18:32) know less than a month ago uh a lot of (00:18:35) investors were clearly shifting capital (00:18:37) out of the US and just you know yoloing (00:18:39) into French bonds and things like that. (00:18:42) uh venture capitalists obviously didn't (00:18:44) do that, right? But at the same time, (00:18:45) there was a high-profile story of a (00:18:47) venture capital firm, you know, (00:18:49) investing in in a in a Chinese AI (00:18:51) company that that we won't mention here. (00:18:53) Um and it and it got me thinking around (00:18:55) there, you know, if you're operating a a (00:18:57) hedge fund, you can go invest wherever (00:18:59) you want without a ton of scrutiny, (00:19:01) right? People don't look at that as, you (00:19:03) know, fin if you if you you know, move (00:19:05) assets uh into some, you know, Chinese. (00:19:07) it's less of a um yeah it does it (00:19:10) doesn't feel like you're you're betting (00:19:11) against your own team in the same way. (00:19:13) So I'm curious how you think of the the (00:19:15) generalized kind of responsibility of of (00:19:19) venture capitalists uh even especially (00:19:21) as a as the sort of aum has scaled (00:19:24) dramatically actually been the the arrow (00:19:27) of progress. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I (00:19:29) the big thing I think I would say is (00:19:31) like we always we always thought and (00:19:33) aspired that we were building things (00:19:34) that mattered and that were going to (00:19:36) have an impact on the world. And for a (00:19:38) long time, you know, we were trying to (00:19:39) convince people that we were doing that. (00:19:40) They never quite took us seriously (00:19:42) because it's like, you know, it's like, (00:19:43) all right, databases, routers, like, (00:19:44) okay, nice, you know, nice guys. I don't (00:19:46) even know what those things are. Um, you (00:19:48) know, even personal computers like a (00:19:49) thing on my desk. I write letters on it, (00:19:51) you know, whatever. Like just like tech (00:19:53) was never like relevant to politics (00:19:55) really. um you know and called this I'm (00:19:57) talking about like between in the modern (00:19:58) era 1950s call it through like the 2000s (00:20:01) um and so you know and look you know (00:20:03) generally speaking like our press (00:20:04) coverage was you know generally people (00:20:05) were like wow startups are exciting and (00:20:07) you know when companies succeed it's (00:20:08) great and then you know in the last 10 (00:20:10) or 15 years you know like issu questions (00:20:13) like yours you know have started come up (00:20:14) and then you know correspondingly just (00:20:15) as you know like just enormous amounts (00:20:17) of kind of criticism attacks you know (00:20:19) kind of indictments of of you know (00:20:20) people with all kinds of points of view (00:20:21) on on on the industry and I would say (00:20:23) you know in the beginning that kind of (00:20:24) irritated me because I gotten used to (00:20:26) the environment where either nobody (00:20:27) cared about us or people just said nice (00:20:28) things about us. What I came to realize (00:20:30) is we're the dog that caught the bus. (00:20:32) Like we actually now are building things (00:20:34) that matter, right? And so, you know, (00:20:37) tech now interfaces direct, you know, (00:20:38) when when Elon goes into the car market, (00:20:40) like he just, you know, the (00:20:41) repercussions of that, you know, to your (00:20:42) point, like on many countries are just (00:20:43) gigantic. And there's, you know, a (00:20:44) thousand examples like that that we (00:20:46) could give. And, you know, AI probably (00:20:47) being the big biggest of all. Um, and (00:20:49) so, you know, look, we it worked like (00:20:51) the the the stuff that we do now, the (00:20:52) companies that we fund, they really (00:20:53) matter. they really have, you know, (00:20:54) really big implications for society and (00:20:56) for for for policy and politics and (00:20:58) geopolitics. Um, and so mainly I think (00:21:01) the responsibility is is on us as a firm (00:21:03) as well as, you know, our companies like (00:21:05) we need to go explain ourselves. Um, you (00:21:07) know, we we need to go be present in the (00:21:08) policy debates as you know like we have (00:21:10) a you know, we have a huge push now into (00:21:11) policy and politics that I never (00:21:12) imagined we would have. By the way, (00:21:14) that's something I got wrong. I never (00:21:15) thought we would have that and then it (00:21:16) became very clear that we need that, you (00:21:18) know, kind of for this reason. So So (00:21:19) look, I just think that's part and (00:21:21) parcel of like of of it working. like (00:21:23) we're going to have to do that. And then (00:21:24) the geopolitics, you know, the China (00:21:26) thing I think is probably the most (00:21:27) intense version of that. Um, you know, I (00:21:29) maybe that's when we got right. We just (00:21:30) never really did anything in China for a (00:21:32) bunch of reasons. Um, you know, and you (00:21:34) know, look, and by the way, we'll see. (00:21:35) You know, this is a fluid situation and (00:21:37) you guys, it's been publicly reported (00:21:38) that there, you know, talks underway (00:21:39) with China. So, the relationship with (00:21:40) China could be better or worse, you (00:21:42) know, in six months. I think that's what (00:21:43) everyone wants. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, (00:21:45) everyone wants like cooperation in (00:21:47) general. Yeah. Like, look, it's (00:21:49) possible. Look, I mean, I'll get I'll (00:21:51) give you my favorite. Here's my favorite (00:21:52) story. So, um uh in 20 I think it was (00:21:56) like 2011 um the at the time the Obama (00:21:58) administration was trying to uh (00:22:00) reestablish was trying to reestablish a (00:22:03) relationship with Russia. Um and this (00:22:05) there was a famous moment where the (00:22:06) secretary of state who was this this uh (00:22:08) this this woman named Hillary Clinton, I (00:22:09) don't know whatever happened to her. I (00:22:11) hear rumors that she then went on to I (00:22:12) don't know did something in politics but (00:22:14) um uh she was the secretary of state and (00:22:16) there's this famous photo where she was (00:22:17) on stage with Sergey Lavrov who was the (00:22:19) foreign minister of Russia her (00:22:20) counterpart and she brought like a big (00:22:21) plastic red button which was the reset (00:22:23) button right to reset you know warm (00:22:25) relations with Russia and then and then (00:22:26) what happened was Medvidev who would (00:22:28) showman showmanship the reset the reset (00:22:30) air horn yeah exactly and then Medvidev (00:22:33) who was the Russian he was Putin's (00:22:35) number two actually came to Silicon (00:22:36) Valley and the the the secretary of (00:22:38) state's office called all around to (00:22:40) Silicon Valley saying, "Please, you guys (00:22:42) roll out the red carpet to Russia. There (00:22:44) are new friends, like do everything with (00:22:45) them, do whatever they want, you know, (00:22:47) please go invest in Russian companies. (00:22:48) Russia's building this new Silicon (00:22:49) Valley. See what you can do to support (00:22:51) them." And and so it was like, you know, (00:22:53) like it was just like a love fest. And (00:22:54) then, you know, fast forward four years (00:22:56) later and, you know, Putin became, you (00:22:57) know, Putler as they say, and, you know, (00:23:00) just, you know, and then, you know, (00:23:01) Russia gate and like every everything (00:23:02) that followed. And so, look, I I would (00:23:04) just say part of being citizens, I (00:23:06) think, is you know, we're just going to (00:23:07) have to navigate through shifting (00:23:08) geopolitics. our our view and quite (00:23:10) honestly like our view is just we're (00:23:12) going to just put ourselves squarely on (00:23:12) the side of the United States. Our our (00:23:14) we say our foreign policy is a firm is (00:23:16) the United States foreign policy. Um if (00:23:18) they you know if they don't want us to (00:23:19) do things in China they don't if by the (00:23:21) way if they come to us and they say we (00:23:22) should do more like you know we'll we'll (00:23:23) look at it at that point but you know (00:23:25) we're we're trying to be good citizens (00:23:27) among everything else. Yeah makes sense. (00:23:29) Talk about the evolution of the A16Z (00:23:31) brand. You guys came out with a new logo (00:23:34) and website. Uh, and as always, you're (00:23:36) good at getting the attention of uh, the (00:23:39) internet. So, this we talked about on (00:23:42) the show. We we liked it. Yeah, I I (00:23:44) think it's something that's different (00:23:45) and uh, and will age very well, but I (00:23:49) wasn't exactly sure like what are you (00:23:50) trying to say with it? What are the (00:23:52) references? And even what was the (00:23:53) process like? Did you pick the color? I (00:23:55) don't know. Are you in that (00:23:56) conversation? I want to know more about (00:23:58) the brand. Yeah. So, first of all, um (00:24:00) you know, I know we got some Twitter (00:24:01) controversy on it, and I just I just (00:24:02) want to thank Kanye West um for (00:24:06) drowning that out entirely. Yeah. Yeah. (00:24:09) Like I don't (00:24:10) think at at the moment. So, yeah. So, (00:24:12) that that worked out well. Um (00:24:16) so anyway, um so um yeah, look, so we (00:24:20) have this incredible designer, Greg (00:24:21) Trudell. He's got he's got a team. They (00:24:22) did a fantastic job. I worked I I did I (00:24:24) worked really closely with them on it. I (00:24:25) I have no design skills, but I I (00:24:27) provided a lot of input. Um, you know, I (00:24:29) think the big thing about it is what (00:24:31) what it's intended to sort of reflect is (00:24:32) is like an embrace of what I think is a (00:24:34) broad a broad set of cultural changes (00:24:36) that are happening right now. You know, (00:24:37) that frankly you guys are a part of as (00:24:39) well. um which is this what I would (00:24:41) describe as I don't know 15-year era of (00:24:44) I don't know like cultural almost (00:24:46) shrinkage everything get you know you (00:24:49) see in the design world it's like (00:24:50) everything getting like ultra clean (00:24:52) minimalistic and then culturally (00:24:54) everybody getting like very cautious and (00:24:55) careful about what they say and you know (00:24:57) with all this kind of censorship and (00:24:58) speech control and then you know this (00:25:00) whole thing of everybody needs to feel (00:25:01) feel bad about everything all the time (00:25:02) and everybody needs to feel bad about (00:25:03) the country and bad about their you know (00:25:05) ancestors and bad about this and bad you (00:25:07) know everybody's just miserable all the (00:25:08) time. Um like I I just think like that (00:25:11) whole thing got kind of as you know I (00:25:12) don't know you may call it like p you (00:25:14) know neopanism or something totally um (00:25:16) like that thing kind of crested in I (00:25:18) don't know 2021 or 2022 and and you know (00:25:22) basically in the last 3 years I I think (00:25:24) there's this like renewed sense of (00:25:25) energy enthusiasm ambition um you know (00:25:28) uh achievement um you know dynamism um (00:25:31) but like you know and again it's like (00:25:33) literally yeah we should have nuclear (00:25:34) energy yeah we should have rockets going (00:25:36) to Mars you know yeah we should like we (00:25:37) we should have these things. Um, and (00:25:40) that, you know, that it's good to (00:25:41) succeed. Um, it's good to build (00:25:42) businesses. It's it's good it's good to (00:25:44) make make new things in the world, you (00:25:46) know, and yeah, we should have the (00:25:47) thousand, you know, yard tall, you know, (00:25:49) shiny colossus on on Alcatraz Island. (00:25:51) Yeah. Yeah. I was I was going to ask my (00:25:52) my only request is like make it make it (00:25:54) real, you know, like like make it the (00:25:56) Statue of Liberty of the West Coast. (00:25:58) Yeah. I'm imagining a massive (00:26:00) instantiation of that coin in the office (00:26:02) and maybe physical not the coin like the (00:26:04) the actual figure. True. Yeah. Yeah. (00:26:07) You know, she has a name. She has a (00:26:08) name. She has a name. No. What's the (00:26:10) name? She has a name. Technomedes. (00:26:12) Technom. I love it. Fantastic. Amazing. (00:26:16) That's great. All right. Well, (00:26:18) Technomedes, buy a plot of land (00:26:20) somewhere visible from the Golden Gate (00:26:22) and just, you know, build it a mile (00:26:25) high, please. Mile high. Make it happen. (00:26:27) Make it happen. Thank you so much for (00:26:29) joining. This is Thank you for coming (00:26:30) on. Really enjoyed it. Have fun with the (00:26:32) with the team and the LPS. Cheers. We'll (00:26:34) talk to you soon. Bye.