From school runs to red carpets, Keira Knightley tells all (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) He started um proposing to me two weeks (00:00:02) after we met. So I mean it was always (00:00:03) you know chill out mate and we used to (00:00:07) get drunk and tell everybody we'd get (00:00:08) married. It got really embarrassing and (00:00:09) then we'd have to kind of walk it back (00:00:10) and she just touched the back of my hair (00:00:12) and she went you're pregnant. And I was (00:00:14) like she said the whole of the back of (00:00:17) your hair has just curled. Your hair is (00:00:20) completely different. You're pregnant. I (00:00:22) am pregnant. (00:00:23) >> Did you have to tell people on set that (00:00:24) you were pregnant? (00:00:25) >> No. I was like shut up. you know when (00:00:27) you go and you find out the sex and he (00:00:29) said it's a boy and I said no it's not (00:00:33) he was like it I mean it it is it's a (00:00:35) boy and then the next we had the scan (00:00:37) he's like oh it was the umbilical cord (00:00:38) it was in the wrong place it's a girl I (00:00:41) knew that was a girl I knew that was a (00:00:42) girl that was a girl I had a head stuck (00:00:44) between my legs for a month so I (00:00:46) remember this kind of what just being (00:00:48) like okay okay this baby has come out (00:00:52) it's my birthday and I had this enormous (00:00:55) scene and And I hadn't slept at all. And (00:00:58) I remember turning around to the (00:00:59) director and my neck cricked as I turned (00:01:02) and I just sitting there sobbing and (00:01:04) sobbing and people going, "God, you must (00:01:06) be so happy." And you're like, (00:01:09) "Have you tried ripping open your vagina (00:01:11) recently?" I don't know. I'm not that (00:01:13) happy. (00:01:14) >> Are you ready? (00:01:15) >> I'm so ready. (00:01:16) >> Good. I don't know what's going to come (00:01:17) out of my mouth. (00:01:18) >> I'm so ready. (00:01:20) >> Isn't that exciting? (00:01:21) >> It is. Hello and welcome to a brand new (00:01:23) episode of Happy Mom, Happy Baby, the (00:01:25) podcast. Today's guest is an amazing (00:01:27) actress. She started her career, she (00:01:29) kicked things off with films like Bendit (00:01:31) Beckham, Pirates of the Caribbean, (00:01:33) Atonement, one of my all-time favorites. (00:01:35) Uh, and her career has just, it's gone (00:01:37) on quite the journey since then. She's (00:01:39) just written and illustrated a (00:01:41) children's book called I Love You Just (00:01:43) the Same. She is a mom to two daughters. (00:01:47) [Music] (00:01:54) Today's guest, I'm so excited that you (00:01:56) are here in front of me. It's Kira (00:01:58) Nightly. Hello. Hi. Thank you for having (00:02:00) me. (00:02:02) >> We have chased you for quite a while, (00:02:03) Kira, to get you on the podcast. (00:02:05) >> I'm thrilled. I love being chased. I (00:02:07) actually don't love being chased, but (00:02:08) you know, let's not go there. But, but (00:02:10) thank you. That's very sweet. I'm very (00:02:12) excited that you're here. There's cake (00:02:13) upstairs. There's never cake here in the (00:02:14) studio. (00:02:15) >> Is it just for me? (00:02:16) >> It is. You're going to sit there and eat (00:02:17) it all before you leave. (00:02:18) >> I will. I I won't be allowed out until (00:02:20) I've eaten all the cake. It's fine. I (00:02:22) can do that. How are you? (00:02:23) >> I'm really good. I mean, I'm really (00:02:24) good. Yeah. (00:02:25) >> Yeah. Are you excited about being on a (00:02:26) podcast? (00:02:27) >> I'm very excited about being on a (00:02:29) podcast. (00:02:30) >> Um I don't know what I'm going to say, (00:02:32) but I mean, but I'm excited to to be (00:02:35) here with you. (00:02:36) >> But it's an interesting thing, isn't it? (00:02:37) Because usually when you're sitting down (00:02:39) to doing an interview, I know we're (00:02:40) talking about the book today and stuff (00:02:41) like that, but you are there to talk (00:02:43) about a film that you worked on and you (00:02:45) have a set amount of time and it's very (00:02:47) driven. you want to get those things in. (00:02:49) And um this is why I started the podcast (00:02:51) in the first place actually because I (00:02:52) think so often when you see people on (00:02:55) sofas of like This Morning or Lraine or (00:02:56) you know talking about motherhood you (00:02:59) know that you're not there to talk about (00:03:00) that stuff actually you're there to (00:03:02) promote your film and you want to (00:03:03) quickly go yes it's amazing move on. You (00:03:06) know what I mean? You don't want people (00:03:07) to (00:03:07) >> you've got your nice little bit what (00:03:09) your sliver of things that you're going (00:03:11) to say and then you're moving on to (00:03:12) actually trying to sell whatever you're (00:03:13) trying to sell. It's true. (00:03:14) >> So this is very different. (00:03:15) >> It is very different. How does it feel? (00:03:18) >> I mean, it feels good. I'm slightly (00:03:19) apprehensive, you know, because Okay, (00:03:21) this is where I'm apprehensive. We were (00:03:22) talking about this before. You go I (00:03:24) mean, there's such a lot to say. (00:03:25) >> Yeah. (00:03:26) >> And there's so many uh there's such a (00:03:29) wealth of experience, but obviously for (00:03:31) me, I'm very aware of being very careful (00:03:33) not to, you know, go into my kids. I've (00:03:35) got to be careful of like not giving (00:03:36) away all of their secrets. (00:03:38) >> Yeah. (00:03:38) >> Um where and mom chats normally you do (00:03:40) give away all of the secrets, don't you? (00:03:42) because you're trying you give away (00:03:43) everything because so it'll be an (00:03:44) interesting kind of exercise of of (00:03:46) speaking and not speaking at the same (00:03:48) time. Speaking and not speaking, oh no, (00:03:51) don't say that. Okay, say that. I was (00:03:53) talking to someone yesterday because you (00:03:55) are so private and you don't go on (00:03:56) things like social media. (00:03:58) >> Nope. (00:03:59) >> This is going to sound really weird, but (00:04:00) I feel like you've got free thought. You (00:04:02) know what I mean? You're not stuck in an (00:04:03) algorithm. You're not thinking, oh, this (00:04:05) is how we say this. This is how we talk (00:04:06) about these things nowadays or you know, (00:04:08) things like that. You're actually able (00:04:10) to just sit and deliver your own (00:04:12) experience without worrying about these (00:04:14) other things that are going on. (00:04:15) >> Yeah, but maybe that's stupidity. Is (00:04:16) that now stupidity? No, I think it might (00:04:18) be because the world is now in those (00:04:20) algorithms and actually I just have no (00:04:22) knowledge of any of it at all. (00:04:23) >> I think we all flock and we all worry (00:04:25) about what we're saying. Okay. (00:04:26) >> Whereas you you can just talk freely. (00:04:28) >> Okay, fine. I'll talk freely then. Oh, (00:04:30) how exciting. What trouble I could get (00:04:32) into. Gosh. Let's go back to the very (00:04:35) beginning and talk about your childhood (00:04:37) because I know it was a very creative (00:04:38) house that you grew up in. (00:04:40) >> Yeah, it was. Um, so my dad was an is an (00:04:43) actor was an actor. Um, my mom is was a (00:04:46) writer. Um, and we lived in a very (00:04:50) lovely house that they still live in, (00:04:51) which is probably one of my favorite (00:04:53) buildings ever, which says I have had a (00:04:55) happy childhood, right? Um, it was all (00:04:58) uh wooden floors and incredibly colorful (00:05:01) and books everywhere. And my mom's (00:05:03) garden is still one of the most magic (00:05:04) spaces ever. She's done it all herself. (00:05:06) It's very small. They were terrace (00:05:08) Edwwardian houses. Um, but it's got (00:05:10) rocks in the garden and it's got mirrors (00:05:12) on the walls and it's like this magic (00:05:13) kind of fairyland that she sort of (00:05:15) created in the back. So, it was very (00:05:17) creative. It was very uh and it was a (00:05:21) lot of talking about stories. Um, it was (00:05:24) a lot of they were, you know, both (00:05:25) predominantly worked in the theater. So, (00:05:27) and were obsessed by theater and (00:05:29) obsessed by storytelling. So I I very (00:05:31) much grew up with them discussing plays (00:05:33) and books and all of that. (00:05:35) >> And how did that impact you? Because (00:05:37) obviously if you've got two parents who (00:05:38) are freelancers Yeah. (00:05:40) >> and coming and going and doing different (00:05:41) things. (00:05:42) >> What did family life look like in that (00:05:44) way? (00:05:44) >> Um well my dad was on tour a lot. Uh so (00:05:47) he was away a lot and my mom worked from (00:05:49) home. (00:05:50) >> Um and so her office is a was a very (00:05:54) brightly colored room at the front of (00:05:55) the house. Um, and uh, and I knew the (00:05:59) door was always open. (00:06:01) >> Yeah. (00:06:01) >> Uh, but she was always away in a story (00:06:05) land in her head. And I used to get (00:06:07) really angry that she was away in her (00:06:10) story land and she wasn't there with me. (00:06:12) And I was always like, where are you? (00:06:15) Cuz you're there, but you're not there. (00:06:16) You're somewhere else. (00:06:18) >> Um, and I I think probably my kids (00:06:21) recognize that a bit from me. you know, (00:06:23) that kind of like I'm in a I don't know. (00:06:26) I'm I'm here. I'm present, but I'm not. (00:06:29) I'm somewhere somewhere deep inside my (00:06:31) own head. So, my mom definitely had (00:06:32) that. Um, but I mean, on a dayto-day, (00:06:35) she literally, you know, she would take (00:06:37) us to school, she would pick us up, (00:06:39) bring us home again. We had friends that (00:06:40) lived around the corner, so we'd be (00:06:41) wandering around to them all the time. (00:06:43) And, um, yeah, it was a good community. (00:06:45) >> Yeah. Did it feel like a very creative (00:06:47) house to be in? (00:06:48) >> Yeah, definitely. I mean, definitely. (00:06:49) Definitely. And it was it felt magic. it (00:06:51) felt, you know, they really believed (00:06:54) they were very much part of this kind of (00:06:55) 70s uh left-wing theater scene and they (00:06:59) believed they could change the world and (00:07:01) so it was a very powerful thing to be a (00:07:03) part of that like art and theater and (00:07:05) that kind of creativity was important (00:07:07) and political um and yeah I think (00:07:10) watching them was extraordinary. Now the (00:07:12) other side of that we we had a I'd say a (00:07:15) middle class. I went to comprehensive (00:07:17) schools. Uh it was a middle-class (00:07:19) upbringing. Um but you know there were (00:07:21) years where it was tough financially. So (00:07:24) I definitely grew up with a kind of uh (00:07:26) the financial instability that you get (00:07:28) from freelancers who work in an artistic (00:07:31) profession. Um, but I think also for my (00:07:33) own career, it was sort of really (00:07:35) helpful because I never saw I didn't (00:07:38) think that the streets were paved with (00:07:40) gold going into, you know, being an (00:07:42) actor or being anything else. I always (00:07:43) thought, you know, you probably have to (00:07:45) do other jobs. Sometimes my dad was a (00:07:46) taxi driver. Sometimes he worked uh you (00:07:49) know he worked for a company called book (00:07:51) data for a while and my mom would work (00:07:53) she was terrible but she worked in a (00:07:54) delicatesess and she didn't do that well (00:07:56) at all but she you know and she'd work (00:07:58) in a bookshop and so I I had a view of (00:08:00) it as being you know that yeah you were (00:08:02) a writer or you were an actor but also (00:08:04) you might have to be a waitress and you (00:08:05) might have to I had quite a real I mean (00:08:07) I'm fortunate to have had a very (00:08:08) realistic view of what it (00:08:09) >> does the whole nepo baby thing then (00:08:12) annoy you because I think it's it's a (00:08:16) really difficult subject When you've got (00:08:17) parents who they are working, they're (00:08:19) jobbing creatives. You know, everyone is (00:08:21) a jobbing creative and actually (00:08:23) >> you might be around certain people, but (00:08:25) you still have to deliver. You still (00:08:26) have to have a talent. (00:08:27) >> Yeah. (00:08:28) >> For even to go anywhere. (00:08:29) >> I don't know about annoyed. I mean, you (00:08:31) know, I think I think I am an epo baby. (00:08:34) I mean, my mom I mean, my first proper (00:08:36) agent was because she was my mom's best (00:08:38) mate and she's still my agent today, you (00:08:41) know. So I mean I think it is true that (00:08:43) there are connections that are made and (00:08:45) and it's true that within creative (00:08:47) families you know a lot of the actors I (00:08:48) know it is generational (00:08:51) >> and I think partly that is because it is (00:08:53) a life it's a lifestyle it's a it's a (00:08:55) way of life that is quite other from a 9 (00:08:58) to5 job. So do you think it's more a (00:09:00) case then that we have to change our (00:09:02) view of how we perceive that the the (00:09:04) even the word that actually it should be (00:09:06) something that's not used as a a way to (00:09:09) kind of go dismiss someone but actually (00:09:12) kind of go that what's wrong with that? (00:09:14) Well I don't know about that. I mean I I (00:09:18) don't know I mean I I don't know. Oh, I (00:09:20) think it's a similar thing to you know (00:09:22) quite often builders you know I was (00:09:23) doing a lot of house uh work on my house (00:09:24) recently and it's a it's a family of (00:09:26) builders right you know building (00:09:27) companies it goes through generations (00:09:29) doctors tends to go through generations (00:09:30) you get a lot of lawyers all you know I (00:09:33) mean I think you grow up in a particular (00:09:35) environment and if you like the (00:09:36) environment you grow up in you will (00:09:38) gravitate towards that environment (00:09:40) >> true you don't see a doctor whose dad's (00:09:42) a doctor and go nippo baby (00:09:43) >> yeah no you don't I mean or a builder (00:09:45) you know work for your dad's company you (00:09:47) know I mean but I look the the always (00:09:51) the the the entertainment industry this (00:09:54) very loud the noise around the (00:09:56) entertainment industry and I think you (00:09:57) know that going into it and you know um (00:10:00) so if my children neither of them are (00:10:02) showing any interest whatsoever but if (00:10:04) that's what they choose to do then (00:10:05) that's what they'll have to deal with (00:10:07) and I'm sure they'll have an answer to (00:10:08) it it will ultimately with every job no (00:10:10) matter what it is you might have help (00:10:13) through the door which is not nothing um (00:10:16) but unless you bring the goods you're (00:10:18) going to be chucked out very quickly. (00:10:20) So, you know, I mean I mean that's just (00:10:23) the way (00:10:24) >> you knew that you wanted to be an actor (00:10:25) from (00:10:27) >> the age of three apparently. Yeah. (00:10:29) >> Um Yeah. Yes. I asked for an agent when (00:10:31) I was three. Um which I think has to do (00:10:34) with the landline. We don't have (00:10:35) landlines anymore, but I remember always (00:10:38) picking up the phone. Loved picking up (00:10:41) the phone. Um and it would be my mom or (00:10:43) dad's agent and I was always like, "Why (00:10:45) don't" and they'd say, "Hi, it's your (00:10:46) mom's agent. Can I speak to your mom, (00:10:48) please?" or something, you And I', why (00:10:49) can't I have an (00:10:50) >> I want someone to phone me? (00:10:52) >> Why aren't they phoning me? Yeah. Uh I I (00:10:54) don't know. But also, I it really was (00:10:58) >> they talked about they talked about (00:11:01) theater all the time. They talked about (00:11:04) films all the time. They were They still (00:11:07) are obsessed with storytelling, you (00:11:09) know, and and I loved it. (00:11:11) >> Yeah. (00:11:11) >> And I wanted to be a part of it. (00:11:13) >> I love that. What was life like outside (00:11:15) of the house? (00:11:16) >> I loved my primary school. absolutely (00:11:18) loved it. Had my friends living around (00:11:20) the corner. Uh got an older brother. We (00:11:23) didn't get on until I was about 12 and (00:11:25) then we really got on. Uh he's about 5 (00:11:28) years older than me. (00:11:29) >> Um (00:11:32) you know, I remember playing in the (00:11:33) street. I remember walking on my own (00:11:37) round to my friends houses who were (00:11:39) around the corner. Um I remember us (00:11:42) climbing over fences into other people's (00:11:44) gardens, you know, I mean, it was a (00:11:46) proper suburban. Yeah. (00:11:47) >> You know, yeah, it was it was very it (00:11:50) was very h it was very happy. (00:11:51) >> Yeah. (00:11:52) >> Um I remember holidays in North Devon (00:11:55) >> and hiding under like uh surfboards and (00:11:59) eating bacon buties and loving hiding (00:12:01) under the surfboards in the rain, eating (00:12:02) the bacon buties and then waiting for it (00:12:04) to stop raining and going surfing. And (00:12:06) that was still, I think, the best (00:12:08) holiday in the world. (00:12:08) >> Yeah. (00:12:09) >> Um yeah. So it was I'd say I mean normal (00:12:13) my normal. It was my normal. It was very (00:12:16) happy. (00:12:17) >> I love that. Yeah. Did you enjoy (00:12:19) secondary school? (00:12:20) >> I found secondary school hard. (00:12:22) >> I think hormonally, probably hormonally, (00:12:24) I should imagine. But I think just it (00:12:27) was bigger, like much bigger. (00:12:30) >> And I couldn't find my feet in it at (00:12:33) all. Socially, I found it really, (00:12:35) really, really hard that just that move (00:12:37) from a small school into a big school I (00:12:41) found really difficult. And I don't (00:12:42) think I ever properly recovered from (00:12:45) that move and finding it too big. I (00:12:48) found that really tricky. But it was a (00:12:50) really good school, you know, and it (00:12:51) wasn't I didn't have any particular (00:12:52) problems in it or anything like that. It (00:12:53) was just um I think I think it was (00:12:56) literally just going from from a small (00:12:58) primary school and I mean not (00:12:59) particularly small like a completely (00:13:00) normal primary school, but they are all (00:13:02) smaller, aren't they? Into one of those (00:13:03) big (00:13:04) >> sort of comprehensive secondary schools. (00:13:05) I I found it really tricky. (00:13:07) >> When you were younger, did you ever look (00:13:08) ahead to the future? I know that you (00:13:09) saw, you know, you wanted to be an (00:13:11) actor. Yeah. (00:13:12) >> What about a mom? (00:13:14) >> Um I never thought that I wouldn't be a (00:13:17) mom. (00:13:17) >> Yeah. (00:13:18) >> So I didn't I I always thought I would (00:13:21) be a mom. (00:13:21) >> Yeah. (00:13:22) >> So it but but I didn't class myself as (00:13:25) like maternal. (00:13:27) >> Okay. Or like I wasn't particularly (00:13:29) interested in B like if somebody had a (00:13:31) baby I wouldn't be like oh you know (00:13:34) baby. (00:13:37) Um yeah but I always thought I'd have (00:13:39) kids. It's funny, isn't it? That that (00:13:40) thing of kind of knowing is going to be (00:13:42) there. Yeah. Whereas for some people it (00:13:43) would be kind of like a no, I I know I (00:13:45) want to be a mom and at some point that (00:13:46) is, you know, I'll play with my dolls (00:13:48) and be maternal and play and, you know, (00:13:51) >> I definitely did play with dolls. (00:13:52) >> Yeah. (00:13:53) >> So, I guess there was that, but I just (00:13:55) remember being sort of in early 20s or (00:13:57) whatever. I mean, I wouldn't look at (00:13:58) them and be like, "Oh, I want one of (00:13:59) those." (00:14:00) >> I'd be like, "Oh." (00:14:04) >> Did that shift at all when you met (00:14:06) James? (00:14:07) >> No. again, we were always like, "Well, (00:14:09) that's just going to happen at some (00:14:10) point." (00:14:11) >> Really? (00:14:11) >> Yeah. Like he I mean, you know, in that (00:14:13) in that way of I'm not I don't remember (00:14:15) ever having a conversation about it. I (00:14:17) don't remember ever, you know, but just (00:14:18) that that was an obvious thing and there (00:14:20) would be two (00:14:22) >> and we were both kind of the same about (00:14:23) it. It's like obviously we're having two (00:14:24) kids at some point. Yeah. (00:14:26) >> That's so funny. (00:14:26) >> It's funny though, isn't it? Yeah. What (00:14:28) about you? Did you have a (00:14:29) >> Um I in my head it was three, but (00:14:31) because I'm one of three. (00:14:32) >> Oh, well, there you go. And I'm one of (00:14:33) two, so two makes sense and he's one of (00:14:34) two, so two makes sense. (00:14:35) >> Yeah. Whereas I think I don't know (00:14:37) whether because me and my husband have (00:14:38) been together since we were 18. (00:14:40) >> So I think there was always that sort of (00:14:42) chasing of let's can we be adults? Do (00:14:45) you know what I mean? So and also I (00:14:47) think cuz it was at a time where (00:14:49) >> I don't know maybe you know you're (00:14:51) you're chasing that ring that commitment (00:14:54) that whatever it is (00:14:55) >> and and I think you kind of all your (00:14:58) energy is kind of towards towards that. (00:15:00) >> Yeah. Yeah. You see he we met and he (00:15:03) started um proposing to me two weeks (00:15:04) after we met. So, I mean, it was always, (00:15:06) you know, chill out, mate. You're all (00:15:09) right. Um, and we used to get drunk and (00:15:11) tell everybody we'd get married. It got (00:15:13) really embarrassing. And then we'd have (00:15:14) to kind of walk it back and be like, (00:15:15) "No, I think we Oh, God." You know, so (00:15:17) it was just always sort of happening. I (00:15:19) mean, it was always just happening. As (00:15:20) soon as we met it was, you know, I mean, (00:15:21) >> they feel different to any any (00:15:22) relationship before then. (00:15:24) >> I mean, yeah, they all feel different, (00:15:26) don't they? Um, but uh, yeah, he's (00:15:29) >> Yeah, I mean, it it was just always (00:15:31) happening and we were always having (00:15:32) children and we were going to get (00:15:33) married. Did you worry at all about (00:15:34) career? (00:15:35) >> No, stupidly. (00:15:38) >> Really stupidly. (00:15:40) >> I guess for you, you've seen your mom (00:15:41) and dad and although your mom was able (00:15:43) to work from home, you've seen them do (00:15:45) the career, have the children. So maybe (00:15:47) you hadn't questioned how questioned it. (00:15:50) >> Um and actually and she's proper (00:15:52) secondwave feminist. You just get on (00:15:54) with it. You just do it. That's what you (00:15:55) do. (00:15:56) >> You have the babies and you take them (00:15:57) and that's what you do, you know. (00:15:59) Thanks, Mom. Um was was it that simple? (00:16:02) uh you know I mean I think she's a (00:16:05) writer so she she was an actress and by (00:16:07) the time I came around she wasn't acting (00:16:08) anymore and she was just writing and she (00:16:10) was successful as a writer. (00:16:12) >> Writing is a very good thing for being a (00:16:14) a parent. Absolutely. you know cuz you (00:16:16) are working from home. You do have you (00:16:19) know that that structure of that school (00:16:22) day is very helpful to make you sit (00:16:24) there and work and then the kids go and (00:16:26) she said you know put you to bed and we (00:16:28) had bedtimes and you know put us to bed (00:16:29) and she said and I'd write afterwards (00:16:31) and so she had good she had chunks and I (00:16:34) can now see how that works you know (00:16:36) quite nicely. (00:16:37) >> 13 so it absolutely does work. (00:16:40) >> Yeah, there you go. Although the chaos (00:16:41) of the last couple of years has made me (00:16:43) go (00:16:43) >> I mean doesn't work (00:16:44) >> chase the (00:16:45) >> and co doesn't work I mean that doesn't (00:16:47) work for anybody but that doesn't work (00:16:49) you know so obviously some holidays (00:16:50) definitely don't work (00:16:52) >> that's a nightmare but you know but (00:16:54) there are those moments where you're (00:16:55) like okay that actually makes sense you (00:16:57) can be a completely present mother and (00:16:59) you and you can do the creative thing (00:17:02) and you know which is which is great the (00:17:04) acting of it makes it a little trickier (00:17:07) >> so when you decided that the time was (00:17:09) right to start Right. Did you decide (00:17:11) that? (00:17:11) >> No, not really. I mean, we decided No, (00:17:13) not really. We decided that we would (00:17:15) stop being so careful. Okay. (00:17:16) >> And I was pregnant. I mean, literally (00:17:19) then (00:17:21) >> twice. (00:17:23) So, it was quite it was both a shock and (00:17:25) not a shock. (00:17:26) >> Yeah. (00:17:26) >> Uh I mean, I really we thought it I (00:17:28) definitely thought, you know, we I'd (00:17:30) already had friends who'd been having (00:17:32) babies and some of them had had a you (00:17:34) know, really tricky time getting (00:17:35) pregnant. So, I absolutely thought I was (00:17:37) like, you know, we'll just we'll just I (00:17:39) was always incredibly careful, being (00:17:41) very career-minded. I was incredibly (00:17:43) careful and I was just like, (00:17:45) >> I'll just be a little less careful. (00:17:47) >> Boom. Were you in the middle of filming (00:17:49) anything? (00:17:49) >> I don't remember that. Was I in the (00:17:51) middle? I was pregnant. (00:17:53) >> No. God, isn't that funny? The second (00:17:54) time I was, but the first time, no, I (00:17:56) can't remember. Um, I was definitely (00:17:58) promoting because I remember Imitation (00:18:01) Game was coming out. Oh, actually, it (00:18:02) was quite good timing. So, Imitation (00:18:04) Game was coming out and there was a big (00:18:05) Oscar campaign and when there's an Oscar (00:18:07) campaign, you can't be filming at the (00:18:08) same time. So, I wasn't filming. But, (00:18:11) uh, so it was it was in that bit where I (00:18:13) was suddenly pregnant doing an Oscar (00:18:14) campaign. Yeah. How was that? The first (00:18:18) pregnancy was, (00:18:20) do you know, I had the great bit at the (00:18:22) beginning. (00:18:23) You're really sick. So, I was obviously (00:18:26) trying to hide that, but I had that (00:18:27) great moment where suddenly your boobs (00:18:29) go. you're really look you're very thin (00:18:32) but with these amazing boobs and I never (00:18:33) had boobs in my life. I was like (00:18:36) looking amazing. Uh and then (00:18:39) >> this is my Oscar look. (00:18:40) >> This is my Oscar. Yeah, this is this is (00:18:42) incredible and then very quickly you (00:18:43) know it all started um everything else (00:18:45) started happening as well. I this the (00:18:48) first pregnancy I felt incredible. (00:18:50) Right. (00:18:50) >> So, I was sick for the first trimester. (00:18:52) Um, and then really got that famous sort (00:18:56) of energy and like whatever the hormonal (00:18:58) thing was. I just felt great. I was like (00:19:02) the happiest I've ever been like (00:19:05) >> extraordinary kind of I'm normally quite (00:19:07) a kind of introverted. I find like (00:19:09) parties and big gatherings I find all (00:19:11) that quite tricky. I didn't have any of (00:19:13) those problems. I was like out and just (00:19:16) it was Yeah. I was I was again I I'd (00:19:19) take a bit of that hormonal ride again (00:19:20) from that first pregnancy. That was (00:19:22) great. (00:19:22) >> Really? (00:19:23) >> Yes. And then (00:19:26) >> there's always an end there. (00:19:29) >> Did that sustain throughout the whole (00:19:30) pregnancy after after (00:19:31) >> sustained from the second trime (00:19:33) trimester all the way through to giving (00:19:35) birth. (00:19:35) >> And how did you feel about birth? (00:19:36) Because I know you did hypnotherapy for (00:19:38) anxiety years before. Yeah. (00:19:40) >> Had you looked into hypno birthing or (00:19:41) anything like that? (00:19:42) >> No. (00:19:42) >> No. No. cuz when I saw you do (00:19:44) hypnotherapy, I was like maybe (00:19:47) Yeah. No, I didn't. I just went cuz you (00:19:49) did. You said you did, right? (00:19:51) >> Um (00:19:52) >> I very str I I was just I didn't connect (00:19:56) to any of that. I didn't connect to any (00:19:59) I was just very much like (00:20:02) >> she's got to come out. (00:20:03) >> Don't care how she comes out. (00:20:04) >> Yeah. (00:20:05) >> I don't I didn't connect to a kind of it (00:20:06) has to be natural. I didn't connect to I (00:20:09) wasn't scared of it. I was just like one (00:20:11) way or another I have to survive. She (00:20:13) has to survive. She has to come out. (00:20:14) >> Yeah. (00:20:14) >> I don't care how. So, I didn't have like (00:20:17) a birth plan or I didn't have, you know, (00:20:19) I vaguely said, "Yeah, sure. If there's (00:20:20) some water, that sounds like that might (00:20:23) be nice." (00:20:24) >> So, there was I was in a suite with a (00:20:26) water thing. Didn't get into it. Um, but (00:20:29) I was very non-connected to an idea of (00:20:35) control. (00:20:36) >> Yeah. (00:20:37) >> Um, or an idea that Yeah. I just I (00:20:40) didn't feel like I wanted to dictate (00:20:42) anything. I just felt like I have no (00:20:43) idea. My body's going to do something (00:20:46) and we both have to survive and that's (00:20:47) it. (00:20:47) >> Which means that you weren't married to (00:20:48) it looking a certain way either. (00:20:50) >> I was not. And actually now I'm pleased (00:20:53) that that was the case cuz a lot of (00:20:54) friends had that and then they felt like (00:20:55) they'd failed. And maybe actually that's (00:20:57) why I hadn't because I'd already had a (00:20:59) couple of mates who'd been through it (00:21:00) and had that it's got to be natural. (00:21:02) It's got to be this. It's got to be (00:21:03) that. And then it had all gone wrong and (00:21:04) and the worst thing was that they felt (00:21:06) like they'd failed. (00:21:07) >> Um so I had seen that with a couple of (00:21:09) mates. So, I suppose maybe that was why (00:21:11) I didn't. I was just I was just like, (00:21:13) it's just got to come out. (00:21:15) >> One way or another, she has to come out (00:21:17) and I don't care how we get there. (00:21:19) That's (00:21:19) >> Did you find out that you were having a (00:21:20) girl? (00:21:21) >> I knew I was having a girl. (00:21:22) >> Really? (00:21:23) >> Yeah. Both times. (00:21:24) >> Really? (00:21:25) >> It is a girl. It there is no And (00:21:27) actually with my first pregnancy, uh we (00:21:29) did the you know when you go and you do (00:21:31) you find out the sex um and and he said, (00:21:35) "It's a boy." And I said, "No, it's (00:21:37) not." He was like, "It I mean it it is (00:21:40) it's a boy." And so we had then until (00:21:43) the next scan my husband going, "You've (00:21:45) got to stop. You've got to get your head (00:21:47) around the fact this is a boy." I'm (00:21:48) like, "It's not a boy. It's not a boy." (00:21:51) It's like, "The doctor has said it's a (00:21:52) boy. It's not a boy." And my mom's a bit (00:21:53) witchy, too. And my mom was like, "It's (00:21:54) not a boy. It's it's a girl. It's not a (00:21:56) boy." And uh and then and then the next (00:21:59) one we had the scan, he's like, "Oh, it (00:22:00) was the umbilical cord. It was in the (00:22:01) wrong place. It's a girl." I knew that (00:22:04) was a girl. I knew that was a girl. That (00:22:05) was a girl. I mean, imagine if you spent (00:22:07) that time getting your head around the (00:22:09) fact (00:22:09) >> I did. I I did try. I mean, I wasn't (00:22:11) completely insane. You know, well, I was (00:22:14) completely insane. I was like, "Okay, (00:22:17) let's I mean, I don't care either way. (00:22:20) So, let's have a couple of boy names." (00:22:21) We had a couple of boy names and I was (00:22:22) like, "Maybe I could get into, you know, (00:22:24) I'm to again didn't care like whatever." (00:22:26) Kept going, "It's a [ __ ] girl. It's a (00:22:28) girl. It's a girl." (00:22:31) They were both girls just, you know. (00:22:34) Yeah. I don't know. You know, I had no (00:22:37) Yeah. And and then James was really (00:22:38) worried cuz he was like, "Oh my god, (00:22:39) it's a boy and now what you and you (00:22:41) can't get your head around it. Is this (00:22:42) cuz you don't want a boy?" And I'm like, (00:22:44) "No, I'm fine with a boy, but it's a (00:22:46) girl." (00:22:47) >> It's not that I don't want it to be a (00:22:48) boy. It (00:22:48) >> just isn't. Just doesn't feel this feels (00:22:52) girl. Anyway, it was a girl. (00:22:54) >> It was a girl. It (00:22:55) >> was a girl. (00:22:55) >> How did you feel heading towards the (00:22:57) birth? (00:22:58) >> Did you feel nervous about it? (00:23:00) >> I was convinced she would be early. (00:23:03) >> No. For no reason. Yeah, apart from that (00:23:05) my mom said that we were both a month (00:23:07) early, but my mom's quite scatty, so (00:23:09) possibly she just got that wrong. So, I (00:23:11) was convinced that she'd be early, she (00:23:12) wasn't. Uh, she was 3 days early, I (00:23:14) think. Um, and then because she was 3 (00:23:16) days early, she felt late, but she (00:23:18) wasn't a month early. She felt late. (00:23:20) >> Yeah. (00:23:20) >> Um, so I was No, I both times I don't (00:23:26) know why (00:23:28) I was not scared of it. I just felt like (00:23:32) I felt like it was fine. Yeah. (00:23:34) >> Um, and maybe you do, maybe you do know (00:23:36) because again, I think I've had mates (00:23:37) who they felt like it wasn't fine and (00:23:39) they were right, you know, and um, and I (00:23:42) felt like it was fine. There were she (00:23:44) was engaged for like a month before she (00:23:46) came out, though. I think that's also (00:23:47) why I was like convinced that she was (00:23:48) coming out, you know, she was it had a (00:23:51) head stuck between my legs for a month. (00:23:53) So, I remember this kind of just being (00:23:55) like, okay, okay, this baby has come (00:23:59) out. Um the second pregnancy was very (00:24:02) different and the uh well not very yet (00:24:04) but yeah but I had sciatica for the (00:24:06) she'd sat on one side in a ball and I (00:24:09) kept I had massages trying to like get (00:24:12) her to move over because all of the (00:24:14) pressure then on the back as she grew (00:24:16) and she absolutely wouldn't you'd feel (00:24:18) her kind of go you know moving out from (00:24:19) her little and then going almost like (00:24:21) scurrying back to that one side and (00:24:22) being curled up again. So my back was (00:24:25) just in pieces. So I was like a very (00:24:28) angry hippopotamus. (00:24:29) >> Well, that one as well, you've got the (00:24:31) first one to look after at the same (00:24:32) time. (00:24:33) >> You've got the first one to look after (00:24:34) at the same time, which is a whole other (00:24:36) scenario. So yeah. So the first Yeah. (00:24:38) First one, super happy. Super great. (00:24:40) >> Especially if you're not filming, you've (00:24:41) got a bit of pro, you've got promo, (00:24:42) you've got the Oscar, big things. (00:24:44) >> Big things. Yeah. (00:24:44) >> But essentially, you're not on a (00:24:46) grueling filming schedule. You have a (00:24:48) bit of time. You can have all the naps. (00:24:50) You can have all the prep, all the (00:24:51) stuff. (00:24:51) >> Yeah. But also like you know you just (00:24:53) don't have other kids to look after so (00:24:55) you're like what are you I mean you're (00:24:56) getting a pregnancy massage you're (00:24:57) seeing your mates you're going out for (00:24:58) lunch you're you know doing a bit of (00:25:00) work here and there but I mean no it was (00:25:02) totally great. Playing one is a second (00:25:05) one with a three-year-old was a whole (00:25:08) was a very very different scenario (00:25:10) because it was um I was so I was filming (00:25:12) the second time filming up until I was (00:25:16) about 3 months. (00:25:17) >> But it was it was literally like I went (00:25:20) from not pregnant to 5 months pregnant (00:25:23) really within 5 seconds. (00:25:26) >> So I had none of that, oh don't I look (00:25:27) glowing and lovely and this is all (00:25:29) lovely and look at my boobs. It was like (00:25:31) my ass just expand. It was like I was (00:25:33) carrying the baby in my bottom. I was (00:25:36) like, I don't understand. Like it just (00:25:38) my whole body just went like it was it (00:25:41) was astonishing. So um (00:25:43) >> what were you filming? (00:25:45) >> I was film What was I filming? I was (00:25:47) filming um Feminist. What was it called? (00:25:50) Misbehavior. (00:25:50) >> Okay. I was filming Misbehavior which (00:25:53) was about the storming of the Misworld (00:25:56) competition. (00:25:56) >> Okay. (00:25:57) >> By second wave '7s feminists. Um, so I (00:26:00) was filming that and being violently (00:26:03) sick. Um, running off, obviously not (00:26:05) telling anyone. Actually, what was (00:26:07) amazing was I I So I was about 6 weeks (00:26:10) pregnant and I obviously not telling (00:26:13) anyone. Totally knew, felt awful. Um, (00:26:16) and my hairdresser, do you get your hair (00:26:18) and makeup done every morning? You know, (00:26:19) going into the hair and makeup and she (00:26:21) just touched the back of my hair and she (00:26:22) went, "You're pregnant." (00:26:24) >> And I was like, "What?" She said, "The (00:26:26) whole of the back of your hair has just (00:26:28) curled." She said, "Yesterday it wasn't (00:26:31) curly and today it's curly and it's (00:26:34) proper cur like proper proper hard (00:26:36) curls. Your hair is completely (00:26:38) different. You're pregnant." I was like, (00:26:40) "I am pregnant." (00:26:42) And it's true. It's like I've now got a (00:26:44) funny patch at the back of my hair. (00:26:46) Yeah. (00:26:47) >> Which is totally like zigzag curly from (00:26:50) this second pregnancy. (00:26:52) >> Wow. (00:26:52) >> Yeah. So, isn't the hormones are weird? (00:26:54) That is weird. It's weird. (00:26:56) >> Did you have to tell people on set that (00:26:58) you were pregnant? (00:26:58) >> No, I was like, "Shut up." (00:27:00) >> Really? (00:27:00) >> Yeah. Shut up. Very early. Shut up. She (00:27:02) was like, (00:27:03) >> "You didn't drive for the bottom." (00:27:05) >> Uh, I did start expanding obviously. But (00:27:07) fortunately on film sets, everybody's (00:27:09) just eating junk food the whole time. (00:27:11) So, everybody's expanding. So, I don't (00:27:13) think I think they were just like, "Wow, (00:27:15) you need to really start." And I was (00:27:16) also I was eating I was eating ginger (00:27:18) biscuits because that was the only thing (00:27:19) that made me not feel sick. Yeah. (00:27:21) >> So, they were obviously watching me eat (00:27:22) all of these biscuits being like, "Come (00:27:24) off, you're going to get bigger if (00:27:25) you're eating the ginger biscuits all (00:27:26) the time." So, so they didn't say (00:27:28) anything. Maybe they did know, but they (00:27:30) didn't say anything. (00:27:30) >> Oh, bless you. (00:27:33) >> Yes. Anyway, so that was Yeah. And then (00:27:35) So, yes. And then I think cuz my first (00:27:38) kid did not sleep. So, still by the time (00:27:40) she was three, she was not sleeping (00:27:41) through the night. Um, so (00:27:44) >> that's hard. That is hard. Yes. That is (00:27:48) Did you have one like that? (00:27:49) >> Yeah. Yeah. (00:27:50) >> Yeah. And then I had the second one did (00:27:52) sleep and it was amazing. And then I (00:27:54) decided to put them in a room together (00:27:55) which meant that then (00:27:56) >> neither of them slept. (00:27:57) >> It wasn't actually when they first went (00:27:59) in the room together. Mom would have (00:28:00) night terrors and they wouldn't wake the (00:28:01) other one up at all. (00:28:02) >> It was the getting to sleep that was the (00:28:04) big big thing. (00:28:06) >> See, mine would always she'd get to (00:28:08) sleep but from midnight she'd be awake. (00:28:11) >> Wow. (00:28:11) >> Just awake. Um so how old was yours when (00:28:15) they finally slept through? (00:28:17) >> Do they sleep through now? (00:28:18) >> Yeah. Now we have to wake them up. It's (00:28:20) amazing. (00:28:21) >> Very very different thing. (00:28:22) >> Yeah. Yeah. Those hormones. Yeah. So uh (00:28:25) Yes. So she didn't sleep until she was (00:28:26) five. Uh but uh but so I think because I (00:28:30) was then pregnant when she was three, I (00:28:33) would literally she was at nursery and (00:28:35) I'd send her to nursery and I'd crawl up (00:28:37) in a ball and I would sleep the whole (00:28:39) day she was at nursery. And I remember (00:28:42) even making those days longer because I (00:28:44) would literally just be and I think it (00:28:45) was very much my body just it was like (00:28:47) my body went into shutdown. (00:28:48) >> Yeah. (00:28:49) >> Um and I've never experienced tiredness. (00:28:52) I mean there's the obvious tire because (00:28:53) the kid doesn't sleep anyway and you (00:28:55) haven't slept a full night in 3 years. (00:28:57) >> But it was it it was like something (00:29:00) chemical in my body just shutting the (00:29:01) whole thing down and making me sleep (00:29:02) during the day. So thank God for (00:29:04) nursery. (00:29:05) >> Were you worried when the when the (00:29:06) second one came along then the fact that (00:29:07) you still you already had one that (00:29:09) didn't sleep? Yes. I thought I might (00:29:11) die. Uh thought I might die. Uh yeah. Um (00:29:15) yes. Uh and my second is I mean and from (00:29:22) the get-go. Love sleep. I mean she (00:29:25) literally she slept through. She was one (00:29:27) of those babies that if you have a (00:29:28) non-sleeper, you hear about these babies (00:29:29) and it makes you want to kill the (00:29:31) parents. Um she slept through from four (00:29:34) months. (00:29:35) >> She just she loves it. She still loves (00:29:37) it. Yeah. I mean like you go it's (00:29:38) bedtime. Oh good. She just loves it. (00:29:40) She's like this little I think also (00:29:43) she's a thumb sucker, (00:29:44) >> right? So, she's got her own comfort (00:29:46) attached to her (00:29:47) >> and literally that thumb went I mean I (00:29:48) swear she was born with a thumb and she (00:29:50) wasn't but you know I mean it was like (00:29:51) she found it so quick. Um and I think (00:29:55) that just made (00:29:56) >> we went through a I mean I feel like we (00:29:58) had years where we just like I don't (00:29:59) care where anyone sleeps. (00:30:00) >> No, just as long as there is some sleep. (00:30:02) >> I don't care if you have to get into our (00:30:03) bed or we have to be in your bed (00:30:05) >> just as long as everyone actually (00:30:07) sleeps. No, I think I slept in Ed's bed (00:30:09) for, you know, years. (00:30:12) It's a miracle we had the second child. (00:30:14) Um, yeah, I mean, you just it's it's (00:30:16) it's very very intense that (00:30:18) non-sleeping. I mean, you go mad. (00:30:21) >> I I was doing a film called Official (00:30:23) Secrets in Leeds, and for some reason at (00:30:25) three (00:30:26) >> she really Yeah. She really just went (00:30:29) through a period of it was like a (00:30:30) complete regression to I mean every hour (00:30:33) on the hour it was you know and I I just (00:30:35) remember it was my birthday and I had (00:30:37) this enormous scene and I hadn't slept (00:30:40) at all and I remember turning around to (00:30:42) the director and my neck cricked as I (00:30:45) turned and I just sitting there sobbing (00:30:47) and sobbing and sobbing and you know and (00:30:49) you're just like oh this is sleep (00:30:52) deprivation to like oh she was always (00:30:54) fine she was so happy she was like she's (00:30:57) got a daytime nap. Not a problem. Yeah, (00:30:59) she's good. She's got that lovely, you (00:31:00) know, she But I think that not sleeping, (00:31:04) trying to work (00:31:06) >> thing is very (00:31:08) >> hard. (00:31:08) >> Well, cuz you just don't know how you're (00:31:10) going to function. (00:31:10) >> No, I mean, I don't think you do (00:31:12) function, (00:31:12) >> especially on something like a set where (00:31:13) you've got I mean, obviously different (00:31:16) pressures, but when you're on a set and (00:31:17) other people are relying on you to just (00:31:19) and you're used to going there and being (00:31:21) prepped and just (00:31:22) >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a No, it (00:31:24) was it was a very Yeah, it was a (00:31:26) fiveyear period of very I mean I I don't (00:31:30) think I realized how I'm saying mad. Mad (00:31:32) is probably but uh (00:31:35) Oh, no. The only word I can find is mad. (00:31:37) I think I was mad for about 5 years. I (00:31:40) think sleep deprivation makes you go (00:31:41) mad. And it's only when it finishes and (00:31:43) you can suddenly look and you're like, (00:31:44) "Oh my god." I mean, my emotions were up (00:31:47) here, you know, and my bandwidth for (00:31:49) dealing with things was like (00:31:51) >> this big, you know? So it was sort of I (00:31:53) could kind of go in a straight line. I (00:31:55) could learn the words. I could do the (00:31:56) thing, but it was it was like gripping (00:31:58) on with fingernails, you know. Um, so it (00:32:01) is just it's night and day if you have a (00:32:02) sleep. (00:32:03) >> And it's having something that's (00:32:04) completely out of your control as well. (00:32:05) You know, you're able to before becoming (00:32:08) a parent control to a certain extent. (00:32:10) You you control, you know, how you (00:32:12) sleep. You can control so much and then (00:32:14) all of a sudden (00:32:14) >> or if you don't sleep, it's the really (00:32:16) stupid one. I love it when I hear people (00:32:17) say this. It's like, oh my god, you (00:32:19) know, I've been a partyier since (00:32:20) whatever. I know what no sleep is like. (00:32:22) like, "Bless you." (00:32:26) Oh, no you don't. Uh, yeah. I think just (00:32:29) that never being able to catch up. (00:32:30) >> Yeah. (00:32:30) >> And I think literally when she started (00:32:32) going to nursery when she was three, (00:32:36) >> that was that that was when I could (00:32:38) finally actually sleep cuz up until then (00:32:40) I wasn't napping. I was working all day (00:32:41) or I mean not all the time but you know (00:32:43) I was I was definitely not napping (00:32:44) during the day. So it was a really (00:32:46) interesting thing. It feels like your (00:32:47) body just (00:32:48) >> your body does what it needs to protect (00:32:50) you, doesn't it? Maybe maybe um I'm (00:32:53) basing that on nothing other than my own (00:32:54) experience, so maybe it doesn't, but (00:32:56) that's what it felt like to me. (00:32:57) >> I used to um when the kids all uh you (00:32:59) know were uh well when it was daytimes (00:33:02) and I knew I shouldn't be napping, I (00:33:03) used to go and nap in their bed because (00:33:05) it makes used to make me feel less (00:33:06) guilty. (00:33:07) >> Oh, that's an interesting one. (00:33:10) >> Yeah, that's it. I got back into my bed. (00:33:12) It made me feel a bit (00:33:12) >> No, like I'm being lazy. Yeah. No, I do. (00:33:15) You know, I never slept in my bed. (00:33:16) That's interesting. It's always on the (00:33:18) sofa. So I'd be sat there kind of going, (00:33:20) "Oh no, I'm sure I'm reading a script or (00:33:22) doing something and just like, you know, (00:33:24) have caught curled up and suddenly would (00:33:26) wake up and it would be the end of the (00:33:28) day." (00:33:29) >> I'd hear Tom in his music room sometimes (00:33:31) playing something on the piano and all (00:33:33) of a sudden it would stop and I'd go in (00:33:35) to his his office and he'd literally be (00:33:37) starfished on the floor just completely (00:33:39) wiped out (00:33:40) >> like wow is like there is nothing that (00:33:44) sleep depriv and also the and you see (00:33:47) you look I'm completely through it. They (00:33:48) both sleep. They're 10 and six. It's all (00:33:50) kind of, you know, (00:33:51) >> I see all my two of my best friends, (00:33:54) they both happen to have two-year-olds (00:33:55) right now. (00:33:56) >> And um neither of them sleep through the (00:33:58) night. And and I it's the look, the (00:34:01) panic, the the panic, (00:34:04) >> you know, and people say, "Oh, you know, (00:34:06) it's just being a mom and you're like," (00:34:08) and I just remember reading articles at (00:34:10) the time of being like how important (00:34:12) sleep is. You must get your eight hours. (00:34:14) And being like, "Fuck you. (00:34:18) I would like to I am trying talk to her. (00:34:27) >> But that's another pressure, isn't it? (00:34:29) All those things we're told that we (00:34:30) should be doing. How am I meant to fill (00:34:32) this into my day? How am I meant to (00:34:34) sleep when I've got a child who doesn't (00:34:35) >> who doesn't sleep and doesn't seem to (00:34:37) find it a problem that she doesn't sleep (00:34:38) but doesn't sleep, you know? I mean, (00:34:40) it's I don't have no it's it's it's it's (00:34:44) such a particular form of um crazy (00:34:47) torture. (00:34:47) >> Mhm. (00:34:48) >> Torture. (00:34:49) >> Um and uh and the panic in in parents' (00:34:53) eyes and you just now having come (00:34:55) through the other side, you you want to (00:34:57) it it will end. (00:34:59) >> Yeah. (00:35:00) >> But when I say when my kid was five, it (00:35:03) doesn't make anyone feel any better. (00:35:07) It's like, especially my friends with (00:35:08) two-year-olds. Hey, don't worry. You got (00:35:10) another three years to go. It's going to (00:35:12) be all right. Have a lot of gray hair, (00:35:14) but it's going to be all right. And (00:35:15) people mean to they mean to be helpful, (00:35:18) >> but they go, "Have you tried a sleep (00:35:20) routine?" (00:35:23) >> And you literally want to You want I (00:35:26) mean, I've never felt rage like the Have (00:35:28) you tried a sleep routine? Have you just (00:35:30) tried putting her to bed later? (00:35:35) You think I haven't tried (00:35:38) all of the things? You know, (00:35:40) >> you just have I think they come out the (00:35:42) way they come out. (00:35:43) >> You know, you get a sleeper, you don't (00:35:45) get a sleeper. I feel actually very (00:35:47) fortunate that we (00:35:49) >> that we got the non-sleeper first (00:35:51) because there was at no point going into (00:35:53) the second one that we thought we were (00:35:55) good parents. (00:35:58) >> We hadn't made that mistake of going, (00:36:00) "God, we're really good at this." you (00:36:02) know, we were just like, (00:36:05) um, yeah. Uh, and then and then just (00:36:08) happened to get happened to get the I (00:36:09) like sleeping one. (00:36:11) >> And can I just say for all of the people (00:36:13) out there, parenting is easier if you (00:36:15) have the sleeping child. (00:36:17) >> Yeah. Absolutely. (00:36:18) >> Like it 100% (00:36:21) if you've had a night's sleep, you can (00:36:23) deal with anything during the day. (00:36:25) >> If you have not, everything is hard and (00:36:28) that is not your fault. Yeah. I feel (00:36:30) very important like it's very important (00:36:32) to say that because you know I remember (00:36:34) at the time looking at mates with babies (00:36:35) who slept and they were so glorious. (00:36:37) They were dressed well. They look great. (00:36:40) They were having a lovely mother and (00:36:42) baby time. You know it was all lovely. (00:36:44) And you're sitting there going, "Look, (00:36:46) I'm so lucky. My daughter is (00:36:48) sensational. She's like all of the (00:36:51) wonderful things. But I'm in pieces. And (00:36:55) how are these women not in pieces?" You (00:36:57) know, and you go, "You're not in pieces. (00:36:59) You haven't slept in. (00:37:01) >> But how does it feel like looking back (00:37:02) at that version of you and kind of going (00:37:04) off, oh [ __ ] did you feel like you (00:37:07) could talk to people and go, "This is (00:37:08) hard." (00:37:09) >> I'm really lucky. I had a couple of (00:37:11) really good friends. Uh, and also my mom (00:37:13) had two non-s sleepers. Um, so (00:37:15) >> so you were one of them? (00:37:16) >> Yeah. My brother for six years and me (00:37:19) for two. (00:37:20) >> Okay. (00:37:21) >> Um, (00:37:21) >> so you didn't deserve five years. (00:37:22) >> I didn't deserve five years. I think (00:37:24) actually maybe I'm lying about two. (00:37:26) Maybe it was a bit longer. Actually, no. (00:37:27) Do you know what I'm lying? Because I (00:37:28) always used to get up in the middle of (00:37:29) the night and I distinctly remember I (00:37:31) would get up in the middle of the night. (00:37:32) Their room was on the top floor. We were (00:37:34) in the middle. I'd get up. My dad (00:37:35) literally not even awake would get up (00:37:38) and he'd go down and he'd finish the (00:37:40) night in my bed and I would be up there (00:37:42) in my mom's bed. And that was until I (00:37:44) was six. So actually me saying so okay I (00:37:46) didn't sleep. I'm I'm just like um I (00:37:48) didn't (00:37:49) >> retract (00:37:49) >> retract. So they had two kids that (00:37:52) didn't sleep until they were six. And (00:37:54) when I did get when I told my dad that I (00:37:56) was pregnant, he he went (00:38:01) comeuppance (00:38:05) and he might have had a point. I was (00:38:08) like, "All right." Um, but yeah, it's (00:38:11) Yeah. (00:38:12) >> Was there a point within that 5 years (00:38:13) where you kind of felt (00:38:16) worried that it would never end? (00:38:17) >> Yes. (00:38:18) >> Especially if you're feeling that anger (00:38:20) and that kind of (00:38:21) >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, you do. You could (00:38:23) because it yeah it feels that kind of (00:38:26) sleep deprivation feels endless and that (00:38:28) and therefore that kind of (00:38:31) >> within your own brain sort of feeling (00:38:33) like somebody's putting their nails down (00:38:37) a down a blackboard you know that that (00:38:40) kind of thing. (00:38:42) >> Um yeah because you don't know when it's (00:38:44) going to end. (00:38:45) >> Yeah. and and you know and and it (00:38:47) becomes your life right it becomes so (00:38:49) you become and you also think am I (00:38:52) always going to be this short-tempered (00:38:54) are we always gonna be this you know and (00:38:56) and you're like and everything I I mean (00:38:59) I think from the birth my body didn't (00:39:01) heal very you know there was I mean (00:39:03) actually it was very straightforward but (00:39:04) I got induced (00:39:06) and then I took all the drugs (00:39:09) did then tear so had stitches but the (00:39:12) healing was really it really but you're (00:39:15) Of course you're not going to heal. You (00:39:17) haven't. There's no chance to take a (00:39:19) breath. There's no chance to heal, (00:39:22) right? You're just on it from the moment (00:39:23) they come out. Like (00:39:24) >> you are on it. (00:39:26) >> Yeah. I mean, it's not the best place to (00:39:27) have stitches to be fair. (00:39:29) >> It's not for sitting down and chilling (00:39:30) out. I mean, it it's (00:39:32) >> for anything. (00:39:32) >> For anything, you know, it is not ideal. (00:39:34) >> If you're sitting, if you're moving, (00:39:35) it's just not great. (00:39:36) >> Anything looking after a child the whole (00:39:38) time, you know? I mean, it's not it's (00:39:40) not ideal. I can remember walking on (00:39:42) various times and just feeling a like a (00:39:44) um like something had been caught like (00:39:46) caught. (00:39:46) >> Oh that Oh my god. (00:39:48) >> Yeah. Not great. (00:39:48) >> Oh god. Pads and the thing and the and (00:39:51) the Oh god. I mean it's so awful. (00:39:56) >> It's so awful. And people going you must (00:39:59) be so happy. And you're like (00:40:02) have you tried ripping open your vagina (00:40:04) recently? I don't know. I'm not that (00:40:06) happy. Um, but again, very lucky she did (00:40:09) come out the way she was. (00:40:10) >> Well, let's talk birth. Let's talk (00:40:11) birth. Where were you when things kicked (00:40:14) off? (00:40:16) >> I was um so because I'd felt like she (00:40:19) was late even though she was early. I'd (00:40:21) been walking. I'd been walking and (00:40:24) eating. (00:40:24) >> Try to get her out. (00:40:25) >> Oh my god. I'd been walking that child (00:40:26) out. So at that point I lived in (00:40:29) Islington and I was going to Relle (00:40:32) Canteen uh for lunch. (00:40:34) >> Mhm. (00:40:35) >> Um which is in East London just up the (00:40:37) road from here. Um and I was like we're (00:40:39) walking fine. Okay. My husband I walked (00:40:42) all the way to Relle Canteen. We're (00:40:44) having lunch with uh with friends. (00:40:45) That's like about a mile and something. (00:40:47) Um and I had two puddings cuz they were (00:40:50) great. And I was like right great you (00:40:53) know three course meal. Two puddings (00:40:54) please. Great. And I had a hospital (00:40:56) appointment after that. (00:40:57) >> Right. (00:40:57) >> And um I was like I want to walk to the (00:40:59) hospital. Uh and that was in the center (00:41:01) of town. And so that was another two and (00:41:03) a half miles. (00:41:04) >> Did you have your hospital bag with you (00:41:05) the whole time? (00:41:06) >> No, cuz I wasn't meant to give birth cuz (00:41:07) I was early. So it was still 3 days (00:41:10) before my due date. (00:41:12) >> Um but I had like the checkup. Um and so (00:41:15) uh so my husband was like, "Okay." So we (00:41:18) started walking and on Clark and well (00:41:20) road I thought I'd piss myself and um (00:41:23) and I was like I'm not getting a cab (00:41:26) because I well no I said to him I was (00:41:27) like either my waters have gone or I've (00:41:29) pissed myself and he was like okay. (00:41:31) >> Did you feel anything pop or did you (00:41:33) just feel a trickle? (00:41:34) >> It was a trickle. (00:41:35) >> Okay. (00:41:36) >> Um and again like you know it's the (00:41:38) funny I didn't know what being in labor (00:41:40) felt like. So I was like I don't know. (00:41:41) I've had a child wedged between my legs (00:41:43) for a month. I mean it all feels pretty (00:41:45) weird. I don't know. So, I've been (00:41:47) having actually now what I understand (00:41:49) were actually really early contractions (00:41:52) but for like about two days but I just I (00:41:55) mean it all felt honestly she was wedged (00:41:56) between my legs. So, I was like it all (00:41:58) feels weird. I don't I don't know what's (00:41:59) going on. And I had this hospital (00:42:00) appointment and nothing felt like it was (00:42:02) dangerous. It just all felt weird. (00:42:03) >> So, we're walking now from from where is (00:42:07) it? Clark no from up there. I don't know (00:42:08) along the Clark and road. Um and I feel (00:42:11) this trickle and uh and my husband's (00:42:12) like let's get in the cab and we're (00:42:14) going to get to the hospital. No, no, (00:42:15) because I'm too vain and if if I've (00:42:17) pissed myself, I'm going to smell of wee (00:42:19) and that I'm going to be in a cab and (00:42:21) the cab driver will then be like, (00:42:22) "You've pissed in my cab." (00:42:24) >> Tempted to get him to sniff it just to (00:42:25) see what it was. (00:42:26) >> Well, I didn't think of that. (00:42:28) Should have done that. Of course, (00:42:30) hindsight is a wonderful thing. But I (00:42:32) was also just I felt like I had so much (00:42:34) energy. So, I was like, "No, we just (00:42:36) keep on walking." So, I ended up (00:42:38) walking. I'd walked the one mile to (00:42:39) there and I walked two and a half more (00:42:42) miles to the hospital. And I got in (00:42:44) there. I was quite flushed and the (00:42:45) doctor was like, "You're right." I was (00:42:46) like, "Either I've pissed myself or or (00:42:48) my my waters have gone." And she said, (00:42:49) "I'm going to going to have a look. (00:42:51) You're in labor. Your waters have gone (00:42:54) and you're in labor. Are you okay?" And (00:42:56) I was like, "Yeah, fine. Great news. (00:42:58) >> Great news." Yeah. She's like, "It's (00:42:59) super early days. Why don't you go back (00:43:01) home and get your bag?" I said, "Fine." (00:43:04) Walked all the way back home. So by that (00:43:06) point I think I walked over five miles (00:43:09) that day and then my husband was finally (00:43:12) like we are getting a cab to the (00:43:13) hospital when we were going back and (00:43:14) then we went back and then actually so I (00:43:16) was sort of it was contracting (00:43:17) everything but I wasn't dilating so they (00:43:20) ended up she was like it was the (00:43:21) backwaters that had gone so there's a (00:43:23) particular amount of time like we're (00:43:24) going to induce you again I had no I was (00:43:26) like (00:43:28) >> do what needs to be done. (00:43:29) >> Yeah. (00:43:29) >> She said if you're being induced my (00:43:32) recommendation is take all the drugs. It (00:43:34) was like absolutely fine. Totally fine (00:43:35) with taking all the drugs. I took all (00:43:37) the drugs. I was induced. (00:43:39) I mean, I think she was out with out (00:43:41) within 45 minutes. (00:43:42) >> Really? (00:43:43) >> Maybe an hour. Yeah. Uh uh but I had (00:43:46) split. She was back to back. Um so, so (00:43:50) you know, I think that it's a really (00:43:52) weird one that when you've taken the (00:43:54) drug, I mean, thank God. Thank you for (00:43:55) the drugs. (00:43:56) >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. (00:43:57) >> I'm all great. Um, but I think the (00:44:00) recovery because you haven't felt it is (00:44:05) incredibly confusing. (00:44:07) >> So the battered nature of my body (00:44:10) afterwards, I think that was (00:44:13) it was just it didn't make sense. I (00:44:15) remember the kind of hormonal crash. So (00:44:18) I'd been on this kind of amazing (00:44:19) hormonal high and there was a crash (00:44:22) down. Um, and I think then it was (00:44:24) postnatal depression for, you know, I (00:44:27) did like lots of therapy about a year (00:44:28) later, a couple of years later to sort (00:44:30) of deal with all of that. But, um, but I (00:44:32) think it was confusing not having (00:44:36) whatever that physical side of it was (00:44:38) confusing. Now, I would not say don't (00:44:40) take the drugs. I'm still like, you know (00:44:41) what, I'm all for you do you. You do (00:44:44) what feels right for you. It's all but (00:44:47) that side of it for whatever reason for (00:44:50) me was I found it very difficult to kind (00:44:54) of connect with what had happened (00:44:56) physically to me probably because of (00:44:58) that. Well, it is such a it's such a (00:45:01) huge thing that's not really discussed, (00:45:03) you know, and and you a hu wrote an (00:45:06) amazing essay actually in feminists (00:45:07) don't wear pink about that time (00:45:11) >> and about how raw it is and you know and (00:45:15) actually there's no way that you can (00:45:16) prepare anyone for that. I think it is (00:45:18) something about being in it and feeling (00:45:20) it. (00:45:20) >> No. And you don't you just don't get it (00:45:24) >> until you've experienced it. And it (00:45:26) doesn't matter, you know, even these two (00:45:29) really close friends of mine, they've (00:45:30) got two-year-olds now, you know, they'd (00:45:31) watched me and their other friends go (00:45:33) through it twice, you know, and still on (00:45:35) the other side, they're like, "What? (00:45:39) Why didn't you tell me this? (00:45:40) >> Why didn't you tell me anything? I've (00:45:41) been telling you for years, you know." (00:45:43) um you just don't you you don't have the (00:45:46) you you you you don't have the (00:45:49) imagination to understand I think what (00:45:52) what it is and what physically it is and (00:45:55) what mentally it is and you know where (00:45:58) you're going to be where you feel just I (00:46:01) mean I just remember every I could hear (00:46:04) the trees felt too loud (00:46:06) >> you know I could I everything felt like (00:46:09) I was in a whirlwind of like a wind (00:46:12) tunnel of you know just experience and (00:46:15) emotion and you know it was it was huge (00:46:19) even though I hadn't felt what had (00:46:22) actually happened you know I hadn't been (00:46:23) through the pain of what that was I mean (00:46:25) I'd been through the beginning bits but (00:46:27) >> but you also were very aware of what's (00:46:28) happened to your body (00:46:29) >> yeah I mean I was very pre you know I (00:46:31) was very present (00:46:32) >> so knew what was going on obviously but (00:46:35) >> but yeah that recovery and also the (00:46:37) non-reoververy right the the (00:46:40) >> but I just need to get some sleep Yeah, (00:46:42) >> like yeah, if I could sleep for 2 weeks, (00:46:44) I'm pretty sure this would all heal (00:46:46) really quickly, but there wasn't any (00:46:47) sleep for 3 years, you know? So, and (00:46:51) that's from a completely normal birth (00:46:53) where actually it was all fine, you (00:46:54) know, there were no major things that (00:46:56) was totally actually it went pretty well (00:46:58) for a first birth. It wasn't the kid was (00:47:01) fine, you know, I was fine. It was all (00:47:02) fine and still within the everything was (00:47:05) completely fine. it's still this huge (00:47:11) huge lifealtering (00:47:13) thing has happened (00:47:15) >> and at that point I felt like the public (00:47:18) discourse around it was great can you (00:47:19) get back in your jeans yet right back to (00:47:21) work you know nothing's happened carry (00:47:23) on you're going out you know all of this (00:47:26) kind of (00:47:28) like like it felt like there was no (00:47:31) discussion (00:47:32) >> and no interest and no it was just like (00:47:35) when are you getting back in your jeans (00:47:38) what you know I'm on a different planet. (00:47:41) >> I've just traveled from one planet to (00:47:43) the other. I don't care about my [ __ ] (00:47:45) genans, you know. But um yeah, it felt (00:47:49) Yeah. What about the fact that I I think (00:47:52) when you visit people with newborns? (00:47:54) It's very different to experiencing you (00:47:57) with a newborn. (00:47:58) >> Yeah. (00:47:58) >> You know what I mean? And I think I (00:47:59) don't I don't know whether it's because (00:48:01) we're just so used to going over over to (00:48:03) people's houses when they've got babies. (00:48:04) And I don't know, the babies are always (00:48:07) sleeping. It's always very (00:48:08) >> It looks great. (00:48:09) >> Yeah. Yeah. The mom's sitting down, you (00:48:12) know, she's making us a cup of tea, (00:48:13) >> you know, she's bringing out the (00:48:14) biscuits. (00:48:15) >> Yeah. (00:48:16) >> We don't see it in the same way as we do (00:48:19) when we're experiencing it. (00:48:21) >> No. And even, you know, being somebody (00:48:23) that works on film and being therefore (00:48:25) interested in how do you how can you (00:48:27) show this M (00:48:28) >> you can't (00:48:29) >> no (00:48:30) >> because it's actually inside your head (00:48:32) and it's inside the most intimate part (00:48:34) of your family. (00:48:36) >> Yeah. (00:48:36) >> And a lot of it's in the middle of the (00:48:38) night, (00:48:39) >> right? You know, and then it's about (00:48:41) what the feelings are during the day and (00:48:43) getting through the day (00:48:45) >> and maybe feeling like you're failing or (00:48:47) maybe feeling, you know, having all the (00:48:49) feelings. Um, and it's such a personal, (00:48:53) private, (00:48:55) enormous thing that a norm, it's (00:48:59) normally held inside the head of the (00:49:00) woman that's going through it, right? (00:49:02) And there aren't actually words to (00:49:04) describe what the experience is, (00:49:06) >> but also because we think that (00:49:08) motherhood should be amazing, you know, (00:49:10) like the whole thing of sitting on a (00:49:11) sofa and going, "It's amazing. Got to (00:49:13) promote this." You know, because we just (00:49:14) want to, we're just so used to having (00:49:16) it's amazing. It's wonderful. it's the (00:49:18) most amazing thing that we could ever do (00:49:19) for humanity, whatever. (00:49:22) >> Then when those feelings of failure pop (00:49:24) up, when you know we feel ashamed about (00:49:27) it, we feel guilt and that is what holds (00:49:30) it in and actually makes it so much (00:49:33) >> stronger in our heads. (00:49:34) >> Yeah. Oh, well, and I think everybody is (00:49:36) you're just terrified that either (00:49:38) >> you aren't good enough for your kid or (00:49:40) that somebody will think that you're not (00:49:42) good enough and will they take the kid (00:49:43) away? will, you know, all if if I say (00:49:45) anything negative, will it, you know, (00:49:47) everything gets internalized. (00:49:49) >> Um, and if you're really lucky, then you (00:49:53) have a group of friends that you can be (00:49:54) incredibly honest with. (00:49:56) >> Um, and if you're not, and I think a lot (00:49:58) of people aren't, (00:50:00) >> it it can were and were and were and (00:50:02) were and it it can get very tricky. And (00:50:04) I think it it is what you just said. (00:50:06) It's like because the image of it is (00:50:09) meant to be here I am serene. (00:50:11) >> Serene. this is the most fulfilled and I (00:50:14) just naturally know what I'm doing and (00:50:16) I'm fine with no sleep and I can fit (00:50:18) back in my jeans and here's my head, you (00:50:20) know? I mean, it it so undervalues the (00:50:25) experience. Like the experience is so (00:50:29) much more than that. It's so much more (00:50:33) than easy. It's so much more than (00:50:35) amazing. It's so I mean it can (00:50:37) incorporate that, right? You have (00:50:38) amazing days where you're like, "God, (00:50:39) look at me. I was just amazing." you (00:50:41) know, my baby's amazing and it's all (00:50:43) amazing and and they're great and they (00:50:44) happen and that's great, but it's (00:50:46) >> it it's like it's a universe that's (00:50:49) happening between a mother and child. (00:50:51) It's a it's every emotion. It's all of (00:50:53) the emotions. And I think it's also, (00:50:57) you know, particularly with that first (00:50:59) child, it's you have no concept of the (00:51:04) life change that is going to happen. And (00:51:08) it's not just like a few changes, it's (00:51:12) everything. (00:51:14) >> And and I think that there is allowed (00:51:18) and should be a period of mourning for (00:51:20) your previous life. (00:51:22) >> Yeah. (00:51:22) >> And your previous self and your previous (00:51:24) relationship. And I think that's (00:51:26) allowed. (00:51:27) >> And the fact that you're allowed to be (00:51:29) selfish and think about yourself. (00:51:30) >> Yeah. And you are in every situation. (00:51:32) >> Exactly. And you are still allowed to (00:51:34) want to be you. And you are still (00:51:36) allowed to want to go out and you are (00:51:38) still allowed to want to be on your own. (00:51:40) >> And and I think people feel so guilty (00:51:43) about that, (00:51:44) >> you know, and they feel so guilty about (00:51:46) any negative feelings that they might be (00:51:48) having (00:51:49) >> um that it can get it worse. (00:51:51) >> Yeah. instead of actually going, you (00:51:54) know, there is a life-changing thing and (00:51:55) it is amazing and if you're really lucky (00:51:57) that kid is well and you are well and (00:52:00) that's still really hard (00:52:03) >> and you are still allowed to have (00:52:04) moments where you're grieving your past (00:52:06) life. That's okay. You know, sit there (00:52:08) and you can grieve it and then you can (00:52:10) move forward and then you can figure it (00:52:11) out. You know, you're allowed to want to (00:52:13) go out with your mates and get pissed. (00:52:14) You are allowed to want that. (00:52:16) >> Um you're allowed to want to be that (00:52:18) version of yourself. (00:52:22) But (00:52:23) >> it might not be there for a while. (00:52:25) >> Yeah. (00:52:26) >> You know, did you allow yourself to (00:52:27) grieve? (00:52:29) >> Yeah. I think when I understood it, I (00:52:30) think I did. I was then like, "Oh, we (00:52:32) don't need to feel bad about about (00:52:35) going, go, we were really we we as a (00:52:39) couple were out there and we had fun and (00:52:41) we were out all night and you know, we (00:52:42) were and we went to parties and we did (00:52:44) all the things and, you know, and that (00:52:47) doesn't exist and will never exist in (00:52:50) that way. And I don't think I realized (00:52:51) it would never exist in that way again. (00:52:53) It looks different now, right? We've got (00:52:55) a 10 and a six-year-old. We definitely (00:52:57) aren't hedonistic." (00:52:58) >> Mhm. And I'm really glad that we had the (00:53:00) moment where we were hedonistic. Like (00:53:02) what fun. (00:53:04) But we do go out and we do see friends (00:53:05) and we do now. We've built a life. But (00:53:07) we both had to acknowledge that we did (00:53:10) miss that, you know, and there was a bit (00:53:12) of us that wanted to still be that and (00:53:13) be in contact with that and that there (00:53:15) was a sadness that you couldn't, you (00:53:17) know, but also you're on a journey which (00:53:20) is a new journey which has amazing (00:53:21) things and you're which has the most (00:53:24) amazing things which has the most (00:53:25) important which everything feels (00:53:28) >> 10 times bigger than anything felt (00:53:30) before, you know, but you're not going (00:53:32) to be able to go out and get pissed as (00:53:33) much. And also you look back at like (00:53:35) your childhood and you know the fact (00:53:37) that it was a creative home and so much (00:53:40) joy and everything like that, but (00:53:41) actually it makes you realize how much (00:53:44) goes into creating a family like that. (00:53:47) When you've got things like kids who (00:53:48) aren't sleeping or, you know, different (00:53:51) pressures from different places to be (00:53:52) places or for the kids to be at school (00:53:54) or whatever it is, you know, there's (00:53:56) actually so much else that goes around. (00:53:58) >> Yeah. (00:53:59) >> That home life. (00:54:00) >> Yeah. (00:54:00) >> That can really interfere with it. (00:54:01) >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's the it's the (00:54:04) community that you need to build around (00:54:05) you that makes it all possible, you (00:54:07) know. It's the people whether you can (00:54:08) afford I mean, if you can afford the (00:54:10) child care, obviously super lucky. We (00:54:12) can afford great child care. We we could (00:54:14) send the kid to nurseries, (00:54:15) >> you know, all of that. Um, but it's the (00:54:17) people, it's my mom is hugely involved. (00:54:20) >> Um, I mean, with me growing up, my (00:54:22) grandmother was involved. We did have (00:54:24) child minders and there was a tight (00:54:26) group of friends and so it was the moms (00:54:28) and dads, other moms and dads on the (00:54:29) school gate and we would stay over at (00:54:31) their house a lot and we would do that (00:54:32) and you know now it's it's building (00:54:34) those communities around you that allow (00:54:37) >> that allow life. (00:54:39) >> Yeah. (00:54:40) >> In its full to happen, you know, but I (00:54:41) think at the beginning you have no idea (00:54:43) how you're going to this is just this is (00:54:45) life. (00:54:45) >> This is it. This is life. This is this (00:54:47) is this is life and I don't sleep. (00:54:51) But (00:54:51) >> how did you feel going into having a (00:54:53) second child? (00:54:54) >> I must have been mad. (00:54:56) >> Um, (00:54:56) >> but there must have also been a feeling (00:54:57) of, you know, well, I'm not sleeping now (00:54:59) anyway. (00:54:59) >> I think it was a bit that. (00:55:01) >> Yeah. And I think we'd always gone, (00:55:04) we're having two. I mean, it's so weird. (00:55:06) I mean, it's so weird. We'd always just (00:55:08) gone, we're having two. And we were (00:55:09) like, we're having two. (00:55:11) >> So, we're having two. So, now we're (00:55:12) having two. And again, it was like, (00:55:13) let's just not be as careful. Boom. (00:55:15) Straight away. Yeah. Again, lucky, you (00:55:18) know, obviously very lucky. But (00:55:20) literally again first time. Um (00:55:23) >> but also the idea of something versus (00:55:25) the reality of seeing that pregnant. (00:55:27) >> Yes. You have one second of being like (00:55:29) oh yeah we should and we always wanted (00:55:31) to (00:55:32) Oh hi. Hello. Um Yes. And then the (00:55:37) second um how did your eldest react to (00:55:40) the news initially into your pregnancy? (00:55:43) >> She was so excited. (00:55:44) >> Really? (00:55:45) >> She was like she she was so excited. and (00:55:47) she said, "It has to be a girl." And at (00:55:49) that point, we hadn't found out. We were (00:55:51) like, "He be interesting if it's a boy." (00:55:53) Cuz she's very adamant about this. And (00:55:54) again, I'd gone, "It is a girl." I mean, (00:55:56) I didn't say that to her, obviously, cuz (00:55:57) I didn't know, but in my head, I totally (00:55:58) went. By that point, I was 34, so (00:56:00) officially, what is it? Geriatric (00:56:02) mother. Yeah. (00:56:03) >> So, we got the test, the early one. Oh, (00:56:05) yeah. Um, so I knew very early that she (00:56:07) was a girl, (00:56:08) >> right? (00:56:08) >> Um, yes. So, then it was a girl. And I (00:56:11) have to say, Edie, my oldest, was so (00:56:14) excited. Um, and (00:56:18) she was gorgeous. I mean, all the way (00:56:20) through. And then I So, she was four by (00:56:22) the time Delilah was born. And for us, (00:56:25) it was great age difference. It was, you (00:56:28) know, it was um (00:56:30) >> she she's an amazing, and I say this (00:56:33) honestly, thank God, she is an amazing (00:56:35) big sister. She is. And she adors her (00:56:37) and always has done from the moment that (00:56:39) she came out. And she's just been (00:56:41) they're quite heartbreaking together (00:56:42) really. They're just I think they're (00:56:44) very different. So, they don't occupy (00:56:47) the same spaces. And I think that's but (00:56:49) I I put that as a great credit to my my (00:56:52) oldest kid cuz she she's she's pretty (00:56:56) glorious with her. (00:56:57) >> Really? (00:56:58) >> Yeah. And um and that's not to say that (00:57:02) that's always easy. And that's not to (00:57:04) say that she doesn't have moments where (00:57:07) and particularly at the beginning (00:57:10) where you where she (00:57:15) her kingdom was taken away. (00:57:17) >> Yeah. (00:57:17) >> Right. (00:57:18) >> You've changed her life for forever. (00:57:19) >> You've changed her life forever. And as (00:57:20) much as she wanted that baby, you know, (00:57:22) she did. She really I mean she'd been (00:57:24) asking me for, you know, always loved (00:57:25) babies, always, you know, always wanted (00:57:27) another baby. But that moment where that (00:57:29) oldest kid and look, again, super lucky (00:57:32) cuz that's the way it was. Obviously, (00:57:33) you get some old oldest kids who are (00:57:34) like, I hate it. What is this? I don't, (00:57:36) you know, but even on the side of it (00:57:38) where you have a kid who's just glorious (00:57:41) with their younger sibling, (00:57:43) they still have moments where their (00:57:45) kingdom has gone. (00:57:46) >> Yeah. (00:57:46) >> And they're being asked to share their (00:57:48) people. (00:57:49) >> Mhm. And that baby takes up a lot of (00:57:51) space (00:57:52) >> and it cries. (00:57:54) >> Mhm. (00:57:55) And you know, and you watch these oldest (00:57:58) ones and I think for me I was like the I (00:58:03) I view her as she was so courageous in (00:58:06) dealing with those emotions and in (00:58:09) dealing with that space and in loving (00:58:11) this small child, but also, (00:58:14) you know, looking at this altered world (00:58:17) and trying to figure out her way through (00:58:19) this altered world. Um, is it something (00:58:23) that you were aware of? No, I'm a (00:58:25) younger sibling. (00:58:26) >> I was just like hard to be aware of (00:58:28) these things. (00:58:28) >> Yeah, I'm not aware at all of this. (00:58:30) >> No, no, I wasn't. But, but there was a (00:58:33) story in my house that um my mom with (00:58:35) me, she had a home birth. She'd had a (00:58:37) horrible time in hospital the first (00:58:38) time. So, with my brother. So, she (00:58:40) decided to have a home birth. And that (00:58:41) was the first night he slept through was (00:58:43) when I was born at home on the kitchen (00:58:45) floor. Um and uh she'd been playing tenn (00:58:48) table tennis with him. They' got a table (00:58:50) tennis thing. So, she'd been playing (00:58:51) table tennis until she put into bed and (00:58:53) he miraculously slept through and she (00:58:54) was in labor on the kitchen floor all (00:58:56) night and gave birth to me on the (00:58:57) kitchen floor. Um, and he came down in (00:58:59) the morning and uh he had half an hour (00:59:02) where he quite liked me and then he (00:59:03) said, "When's she going back?" (00:59:08) >> Um, and it's understandable, right? (00:59:11) >> It's so You're like, "Yeah, when I mean (00:59:14) this has been great." (00:59:15) >> Yeah. Because now we've got this nice (00:59:17) bit where we want it. Yeah. And we're (00:59:20) all on the sofa and we've got a nice cup (00:59:22) of tea and everything looks nice and (00:59:23) then it starts crying and then my mom (00:59:24) starts crying and then everybody (00:59:25) >> I want you to play with me now. Play (00:59:27) with me. (00:59:28) >> Yeah. Exactly. And now play with me (00:59:29) again. And what do you mean I've got it? (00:59:30) You know, it's it's like (00:59:32) >> but all of this it feels like you've (00:59:34) really dived into your daughter's head (00:59:37) uh because you've used it as inspiration (00:59:38) to to write and draw illustrate your (00:59:41) picture book. I love you just the same. (00:59:43) It's beautiful, Kira. Oh, thank you very (00:59:44) much. So beautiful. The pictures, the (00:59:47) illustrations are gorgeous. (00:59:49) >> But also diving into that child's brain (00:59:52) >> when their kingdom has been taken. Yeah. (00:59:54) >> When life isn't the same. And you know, (00:59:57) it's it's really Yeah. Well, I feel like (00:59:59) you so so the inspiration so the book (01:00:02) came around in a very strange way and it (01:00:04) massively came around because of the (01:00:05) sleeplessness because in all of the in (01:00:07) all of the trying to find ways where she (01:00:09) might sleep through the night um and uh (01:00:13) I don't know why but we came up with um (01:00:16) she would go to sleep and then uh I (01:00:19) would draw her a picture and and so when (01:00:22) she woke up she I'd make sure that the (01:00:23) picture was beside her bed so she'd see (01:00:25) that I'd been thinking about her and she (01:00:27) knew that I was there and she didn't (01:00:28) feel she felt connected but she didn't (01:00:30) have to wake me up and it didn't work (01:00:32) and it was like 5 months of doing this (01:00:34) and you know cuz she kept saying but (01:00:36) what have you forgotten about me and I (01:00:38) was like but I had promised I promise (01:00:40) >> chance would be a fine thing I haven't (01:00:43) forgotten so we went through this thing (01:00:45) and she and she started (01:00:46) >> real separation anxiety (01:00:47) >> real separation anxiety real separation (01:00:50) anxiety during the night and again super (01:00:52) happy being put to bed no problems at (01:00:54) all but during the night coming and (01:00:57) waking up and actually wanting to be in (01:00:58) her own bed cuz again I literally at (01:01:00) this time I didn't have any rules you (01:01:02) know I would have done anything but (01:01:03) wanted to be in her own room wanted to (01:01:05) be but from midnight every hour on the (01:01:08) hour mom you know coming down go back up (01:01:11) and you know she'd mostly go to sleep (01:01:13) very quickly afterwards but I was then (01:01:15) awake you know I'm then awake anyway so (01:01:17) we're doing this drawing and she's like (01:01:19) she's like okay you know sometimes it (01:01:21) would be a love heart and some nights (01:01:22) like can there be a bird in it? Yeah, (01:01:24) sure. There's a bird in it. Can there be (01:01:25) a cat in it? Yeah, sure. Can I be in it? (01:01:26) Yeah, sure. I'll draw you. Can I be on a (01:01:27) swing? Yeah, sure. And there's, you (01:01:29) know, and it goes on for 5 months, and (01:01:31) there's no story, there's nothing. But (01:01:32) one day, she said, and she'd wanted her (01:01:34) sister in it, too. And there was this (01:01:35) bird, and and her sister had been (01:01:37) teething and, you know, crying all day. (01:01:40) And she said, can you draw a picture of (01:01:42) the bird taking the baby away? (01:01:47) I'm like, sure, that's amazing. (01:01:49) >> What a great idea. (01:01:50) >> What a great idea. Yes, darling. I can (01:01:52) do that. Anyway, so at the end of it, I (01:01:53) had all of these images, but didn't (01:01:55) really think much of it and thought, (01:01:55) "Oh, I'll put them into a book for her." (01:01:58) >> And she said, "I don't want them in a (01:01:59) book cuz they're all just black and (01:02:00) white." And you know, she was sleeping. (01:02:02) After 5 months, that's when she started (01:02:03) sleeping through. I am not going to try (01:02:04) and say to anyone it was because of the (01:02:06) drawings. (01:02:06) >> Yeah. (01:02:07) >> I have no idea why at that point, but (01:02:09) that's what we've been doing. That was (01:02:10) our last attempt at this bedtime routine (01:02:12) to try and make a sleep through. Anyway, (01:02:13) I had all these drawings. Um, they (01:02:15) didn't have a story. Uh, I tried to then (01:02:17) color them in for her because she didn't (01:02:18) she didn't like them. Just black and (01:02:20) white. (01:02:20) >> Quite the critic. very definitely. Yeah, (01:02:22) big critic. Uh, and then I thought, (01:02:24) well, maybe I can try and see if there's (01:02:26) a story somewhere and maybe I can put (01:02:28) them in some order. And I put them up on (01:02:29) the wall in my office and they sat there (01:02:31) for about a year and a bit and I sort of (01:02:32) played with the order of them and played (01:02:34) them around. And then it was just this (01:02:35) little bit of the bird taking the baby (01:02:37) away. And then I think at some point I'd (01:02:39) gone, I must show that the baby's okay. (01:02:41) So I'd put her in a in a nest. Yeah. (01:02:43) >> And at some other point Edy had gone, (01:02:45) that looks fun. Can I go in the nest? (01:02:47) you know, so I put them both in this (01:02:49) nest and there was an image of that (01:02:50) >> and that's sort of how it came about. (01:02:53) And then as I was looking at it, I was (01:02:55) like, "Oh, well, the story is the girl (01:02:57) wishes the baby away and and then has to (01:02:59) go on an adventure." And I think partly (01:03:00) because I view her, my oldest child, as (01:03:04) heroic. I think watching watching her (01:03:07) struggle with things and watching how (01:03:09) she comes through things, you know, I I (01:03:12) view her as I view it as heroic. I view (01:03:14) those older children and also the mess. (01:03:16) You know, you don't know what you're (01:03:18) doing with your oldest kid. You make all (01:03:19) the mistakes (01:03:21) >> and what they have to put up with with (01:03:22) their parents learning how to be (01:03:24) parents. The youngest ones just sail (01:03:26) through. You're like, "Oh, yeah. I've (01:03:27) got it." However different they are. You (01:03:28) know, you've just been through it. So, (01:03:30) you know, and those older ones are (01:03:32) really putting up with a lot. (01:03:34) >> There's a lot of pressure. My dad said (01:03:35) to me once um when it came to Buzz, (01:03:37) you've got to remember that he is still (01:03:38) a child. (01:03:39) >> Yeah. because all of a sudden they have (01:03:40) so much responsibility put on them and (01:03:42) you know the whole of you've got to (01:03:44) share you've got to almost sort of make (01:03:46) >> can you help me with this and can you (01:03:48) bring me that and yes actually I need (01:03:49) you know and you're treating them 100% (01:03:52) also they're so much bigger than the (01:03:54) baby (01:03:55) >> so you know and I now I even think you (01:03:57) know she was four when Delila was born I (01:03:59) didn't ask Delilah to go and you know (01:04:01) look look after your sister for a second (01:04:03) or look I mean know you wouldn't dream (01:04:04) of doing that to a four-year-old and yet (01:04:06) those older ones (01:04:07) >> I think it's only when you real when you (01:04:08) see the younger ones at the age that the (01:04:10) older ones were when they arrived that (01:04:11) you kind of go oh (01:04:12) >> oh I should be so she did so she was (01:04:16) four five during the lockdown and um and (01:04:19) the b you know Delila was like six (01:04:21) months or something and there was an (01:04:23) amazing moment and so the book that I (01:04:24) originally did for her is not the book (01:04:26) that this is right I I kept there was a (01:04:27) private it was to you know this her (01:04:29) thing so um so but there was an amazing (01:04:32) time she turned around to me and she (01:04:34) went mother I am not child care I'm five (01:04:38) And it was I just got I was look after (01:04:40) the baby. You know, it was the most (01:04:42) amazing. Oh yeah. And she clearly heard (01:04:45) me on my foot the phone. You know, (01:04:46) people are asking me to do work and I'm (01:04:47) like, I've got no child care. I've got (01:04:49) no child care. You know, so she's (01:04:50) clearly picked this up. I am not mother. (01:04:53) I am not child care. I'm five. Good (01:04:56) point. (01:04:58) I'll make other arrangements as well. (01:04:59) >> Sorry. Sorry. Sorry about that. No, I'm (01:05:01) not doing that job. Sorry. Thank you (01:05:02) very much. (01:05:03) >> Yeah. (01:05:04) >> It's hard as well, isn't it? with the (01:05:05) sleep deprivation or the sleep anxiety (01:05:07) or the separation anxiety that your your (01:05:09) daughter experienced. We all know how (01:05:11) difficult it is when thoughts come in (01:05:13) the night, (01:05:13) >> you know. So, you can be a happy person (01:05:15) in the daytime and you know, go to bed (01:05:17) well, but actually when you wake up in (01:05:19) the night, it doesn't matter what the (01:05:20) problems are. No, (01:05:21) >> your problems at night when you're awake (01:05:23) just seem far bigger. (01:05:24) >> And they and they and and the panic as (01:05:26) well, you know, the panic of it being (01:05:28) dark. Yeah. (01:05:29) >> But actually, she she really wanted this (01:05:31) is what I mean about the courage of her. (01:05:33) She really wanted to do it. She wanted (01:05:35) to be in that room. She wanted to, you (01:05:37) know, like she really she was like (01:05:39) >> she was really trying. And I think that (01:05:41) was what was sort of again like the (01:05:44) heartbreak of those those those (01:05:46) >> those first kids who are, you know, (01:05:49) >> Yeah. (01:05:49) >> doing their best. (01:05:50) >> Absolutely. (01:05:51) >> Everyone's doing their best. (01:05:52) >> Everyone is. And it's a it's a group (01:05:54) effort when it comes to (01:05:55) >> Yeah. (01:05:55) >> everyone sleeping or everyone (01:05:57) >> Yeah. I mean, it's the main thing that (01:05:58) parents talk about really, isn't it? (01:06:00) How's the sleep? (01:06:01) >> Yeah. (01:06:01) >> Did you get any sleep? But not now in (01:06:03) you know and I say even when no I mean (01:06:05) even where we are you (01:06:06) >> yeah or when you know your eldest was (01:06:08) five they wouldn't have been asking you (01:06:09) how she (01:06:10) >> No do you know what when they were three (01:06:12) they they weren't asking me and I needed (01:06:13) to talk about it cuz she wasn't you know (01:06:15) but again the second one like after four (01:06:17) months it wasn't even a discussion. (01:06:18) >> Yeah. (01:06:19) >> So (01:06:19) >> and that's probably the part when (01:06:21) parents actually really do need to talk (01:06:23) about the fact that their kids aren't (01:06:24) sleeping. (01:06:25) >> Yeah. Yeah. I I think you just need to (01:06:28) keep talking all the way through. (01:06:30) >> Yeah. I think that's why you need your (01:06:31) group of people around you who are going (01:06:33) through the same thing at the same point (01:06:35) >> um to I mean even though some of them (01:06:37) are really annoying and it's all easy (01:06:38) and it's all fine you know you need to (01:06:40) find the ones who are horrifically (01:06:42) honest and you can all just be like this (01:06:45) is what's happening cuz it makes it (01:06:47) better right it makes it better to know (01:06:48) that you're not alone in your experience (01:06:50) >> absolutely (01:06:51) >> and that there's a wealth of experience (01:06:52) and you can sit there and be like I'm so (01:06:54) lucky like they are great we are great (01:06:58) it's all great but it's still even (01:07:00) though that's the case this is still. So (01:07:02) my god for the people where they've got (01:07:04) kids who've got problems or kind of got (01:07:06) health issues or whatever you know it's (01:07:08) a whole other story. So I'm very aware (01:07:10) that I'm talking about this from the (01:07:11) point of view of somebody where it's all (01:07:12) gone completely fine. Look, my best (01:07:15) mate, the the first ever episode of this (01:07:17) podcast, um, Emma Willis, I asked her to (01:07:20) come on and, um, and she said to me when (01:07:22) I asked her, uh, cuz I was I've always (01:07:25) been quite open about how I'm found (01:07:26) finding family life. And I think because (01:07:27) I write, I always had that bit of an (01:07:29) outlet. And Emma was like, you know, how (01:07:31) can I come on and talk about struggling (01:07:34) when I have a nice house, I have an (01:07:35) amazing supportive family, I've got a (01:07:37) great husband who, you know, we're very (01:07:39) much in it together. Yes, I struggle, (01:07:40) but I'm so (01:07:42) >> how can I possibly talk when people are (01:07:43) actually having problems because that (01:07:45) shuts everybody out. (01:07:46) >> We all struggle. (01:07:46) >> Yeah. And I think that's what's (01:07:48) important to know. You're like, okay, if (01:07:49) I'm struggling and I've got the husband (01:07:51) and I've got the house and I could (01:07:52) afford the child care (01:07:54) >> or struggling is maybe the wrong word. (01:07:58) Maybe it's just again this is going back (01:08:00) to your look at the nice baby and aren't (01:08:01) we all, you know, the experience (01:08:04) >> Yeah. (01:08:05) >> is so much bigger. You know, it's bigger (01:08:07) than struggling, right? It's bigger than (01:08:09) it's just so your responsibility is so (01:08:13) massive (01:08:14) >> that of course you're going to find (01:08:16) times where you're totally overwhelmed (01:08:18) by it because ultimately it's the most (01:08:20) ex important thing in your world right (01:08:23) or I mean it should be it mostly is for (01:08:24) most people like that's what that's what (01:08:26) it is so of course you need to grapple (01:08:29) with that and I think if we all shut up (01:08:31) and go I mustn't speak at all because I (01:08:34) do understand how lucky I am but if I if (01:08:37) I therefore or shut up then what good (01:08:40) does that do for every because you can (01:08:42) always find somebody that's in a worse (01:08:44) position. So therefore we're not allowed (01:08:45) to talk about our experience at all. (01:08:47) >> Yeah. (01:08:48) >> And I think actually that's where (01:08:49) motherhood it seemed when I gave birth (01:08:51) to my first child that's sort of where (01:08:53) it seemed to be like we were allowed to (01:08:55) say nothing but (01:08:57) >> this is lovely. (01:08:59) >> This is lovely and look I'm this content (01:09:01) beautiful baby. (01:09:02) >> Beautiful baby. Beautiful mother. (01:09:03) Beautiful baby. (01:09:04) >> Jeans fit. Jeans don't fit. Jeans never (01:09:06) fit again. It's just what it is. (01:09:08) >> That's the reality. (01:09:09) >> Yeah. You know, it's that um taking on (01:09:12) the biggest responsibility (01:09:14) responsibility you're ever going to have (01:09:15) whilst you're at the your most depleted. (01:09:17) >> Yeah. (01:09:18) >> You know, you're not at your strongest (01:09:19) when (01:09:19) >> And it was Do you remember? I still (01:09:20) remember the first weekend where it's (01:09:22) like I don't get a weekend. (01:09:24) >> Yeah. (01:09:26) >> This never stops. (01:09:27) >> This never stops. Or the first holiday (01:09:29) like But we're on holiday. (01:09:32) >> I've just taken us to a hot place with (01:09:34) none of our things and nobody to help. (01:09:37) What were we thinking? (01:09:39) >> I've I've just literally started going (01:09:41) on holidays where I can sit by the pool (01:09:43) with a cocktail and read a book. (01:09:44) >> No. Yeah. (01:09:45) >> It's so different. (01:09:46) >> Well, they suddenly play or they're (01:09:47) playing together or they're playing with (01:09:48) and you're like, "Oh, oh." But that I (01:09:51) mean, and I remember we went we went (01:09:53) with some really close friends when Edie (01:09:55) was three and they both just had their (01:09:57) baby and we all went to Spain and it was (01:09:59) their first two couples, their first (01:10:02) holiday without a baby. And so we (01:10:04) experienced again their (01:10:07) we don't get a holiday (01:10:09) firstand. And you do look at them or you (01:10:11) hear people going, "I've just had a (01:10:12) baby. We're going to go to blah blah (01:10:14) blah and it's going to be 40° and that's (01:10:15) going to be great." Like (01:10:18) have fun. (01:10:20) That's going to be fun. (01:10:22) >> It does change everything. Absolutely (01:10:24) everything. (01:10:24) >> Yeah. (01:10:25) >> Um your mom's attitude of well, you just (01:10:27) make it work. How has the juggling been (01:10:30) with the just make it work attitude? (01:10:32) >> Well, um you know, I think there is a (01:10:37) There is a reality to it. You do just (01:10:39) make it work. It does look different for (01:10:41) absolutely everybody. (01:10:42) >> Um and it's always a mess. (01:10:45) >> And I think this is what I've come to (01:10:48) just accept is that it's always messy (01:10:51) and we sort of and again I'm really (01:10:54) lucky we've got so my mom and my husband (01:10:56) and we tend to work. So, I'm about to go (01:10:58) into this big period of working. So, (01:11:00) they're on it and uh and we've got jobs (01:11:03) where we can kind of do it like that and (01:11:04) he works from home. So, that's kind of, (01:11:06) you know, it it sort of works well from (01:11:08) that point of view. But, um but it's (01:11:10) always a mess. (01:11:11) >> Has it got slightly easier now the girls (01:11:12) are older? (01:11:13) >> Definitely. And definitely just from, (01:11:15) you know, from being able to if there's (01:11:17) a problem, they can call me. They don't (01:11:18) have phones, but, you know, they can (01:11:20) they they can (01:11:20) >> there's a receptionist at school. (01:11:21) >> There's a reception at a school. (01:11:22) they're, you know, people can get in (01:11:23) touch and they they can explain what (01:11:25) what's going on and, you know, um I'm (01:11:28) really lucky the next job I'm doing is (01:11:29) in London, so I'm not disrupting their (01:11:32) life. Their life is set. They're at (01:11:34) school. They've got their friends. (01:11:35) They've got the stuff. We've got our (01:11:36) support network around us cuz we're at (01:11:37) home. (01:11:38) >> Is that what you try and do as much as (01:11:39) possible? They stay exactly where they (01:11:40) are. (01:11:41) >> Well, for all of us, I've tried to get (01:11:42) as much work as I can in London. So that (01:11:44) for this bit, I mean, at least it was (01:11:46) mostly cuz postcoid, you know, it was (01:11:48) like, my god, these children just need (01:11:49) some to be in a life that is regular. I (01:11:52) felt for me, you know, and I think for (01:11:53) actors that's very difficult because we (01:11:54) move all over the world. So, I've really (01:11:56) tried to kind of keep it in London and (01:11:58) been really fortunate that I could kind (01:11:59) of I could make that work. (01:12:01) >> Yeah. Do you ever feel like you're (01:12:02) getting it right? (01:12:03) >> No. Do you know I did an I did an (01:12:05) interview just before the summer (01:12:06) holidays and the very nice um very nice (01:12:09) journalist, but she asked me to mark (01:12:10) myself out of 10 and I was on motherhood (01:12:13) >> on motherhood on everything. I had lots (01:12:15) of questions to mark myself out of 10 (01:12:17) and I was clearly having one of those (01:12:18) days. I was feeling pretty groovy, you (01:12:19) know. That's always a dangerous place. (01:12:21) >> It's so dangerous. So, it's been (01:12:23) haunting me because I gave myself a (01:12:25) seven out of 10. I mean, I gave myself (01:12:26) high marks for everything, but I was (01:12:28) like I gave myself a seven out of 10 for (01:12:30) motherhood. Let me tell you this morning (01:12:32) with book bags and screaming and now (01:12:33) we're post summer holidays and (01:12:34) everything was I was like three, three (01:12:37) out of 10, two and a half maybe if I (01:12:40) asked my daughter one. I don't know. Um, (01:12:42) yeah. God, you know, (01:12:44) >> it's the whole attract thing. Look, we (01:12:45) all go through moments, I think, in (01:12:46) motherhood where things happen. We don't (01:12:48) react in the in the right way. We don't (01:12:50) in a way that we're proud of and you (01:12:52) kind of wish that you could take things (01:12:54) back. You can't. You keep moving (01:12:56) forward. It's (01:12:57) >> I also think you can always say sorry. (01:13:00) >> Yes. (01:13:00) >> And like it's so important as a parent (01:13:02) to acknowledge when you're like just (01:13:03) wrong. (01:13:04) >> And actually, it's been a really lovely (01:13:05) bit with both my girls of like we of of (01:13:08) being able to go, (01:13:10) >> I'm really sorry about that. I was (01:13:12) totally wrong. I got that totally wrong. (01:13:14) I love you. I am so sorry. (01:13:17) >> I don't feel like my parents, you know, (01:13:19) we just not that we did what we were (01:13:21) told, but there there wasn't any (01:13:23) >> and this isn't a a dig at my mom and dad (01:13:26) at all. I think they were both working. (01:13:28) They were both very busy. They were (01:13:29) both, you know, had different pressures. (01:13:32) >> There was no reasoning, you know, we had (01:13:34) to do things because (01:13:35) >> because I said so, you know, there was (01:13:37) whereas now when (01:13:39) >> when my kids go, but I was only (01:13:41) >> Yeah. I was only doing and you're kind (01:13:43) of like ah (01:13:45) >> because actually you have your own life (01:13:47) that you want to live and you have (01:13:48) >> and you're trying to move forward and (01:13:49) you're trying to do things and actually (01:13:51) quite often the behavior when it is bad (01:13:55) or when you've all blown up it all (01:13:56) actually makes sense why you've all (01:13:59) responded or you know in the way that (01:14:01) you have and actually a little bit of (01:14:02) moment when you're all a bit calmer to (01:14:04) kind of unpick it and go sorry what were (01:14:05) you doing there and what was I doing (01:14:07) there and (01:14:08) >> if you have got it wrong I think because (01:14:09) you've got to teach them to say sorry as (01:14:11) well it's Got to be okay to make (01:14:12) mistakes and then say sorry, hasn't it? (01:14:14) >> Absolutely. (01:14:14) >> So I I think that's been a big learning (01:14:16) curve for me. (01:14:17) >> My middle child when we used to say say (01:14:19) sorry, which I actually completely (01:14:20) disagree with now, but whenever we used (01:14:21) to say sorry, he used to go Lori (01:14:24) >> Bory. We no sorry. (01:14:25) >> Yeah, (01:14:26) >> Cory. (01:14:28) >> It's amazing how difficult it is to say (01:14:30) though. My little one, she I mean again (01:14:31) we don't go you have to say sorry, but (01:14:33) she sometimes I'm like you know I mean (01:14:36) the other day she accidentally hurt. She (01:14:38) like jumped on her or something and it (01:14:40) was a complete accident. I saw it was a (01:14:41) complete accident. I was like, you know, (01:14:42) if you said sorry, then she'd know it (01:14:44) was an accident. I cannot do it. It's (01:14:46) like, but you kind of are sorry because (01:14:47) you actually didn't mean to do it. Like, (01:14:49) can't say. (01:14:51) [Laughter] (01:14:53) >> You do you. (01:14:55) >> Cool. (01:14:55) >> I think that's great though, right? Like (01:14:57) we all do things where we're just like, (01:14:58) >> yeah, not ready. I don't want to. (01:15:00) >> I'm not and I'm not ready to say sorry. (01:15:01) I'm not ready to say sorry. (01:15:02) >> I know if I have an argument with Tom, (01:15:03) I'm not ready to say sorry straight (01:15:05) away. (01:15:06) >> When you do say sorry, (01:15:07) >> it does feel quite good, doesn't it? (01:15:09) >> It does. I was like, "This is what I've (01:15:11) noticed with my kids." I'm like, (01:15:12) "Actually, it's much better if I get it (01:15:14) wrong." (01:15:15) >> And it takes I'm a terribly proud (01:15:17) creature that doesn't like to get things (01:15:19) wrong. Yeah. (01:15:20) >> But it's been an awful, you know, to (01:15:21) actually go, you know what? We're (01:15:22) muddling through. We're all doing our (01:15:24) best. We all love each other. (01:15:25) >> I got that wrong. It It takes the kind (01:15:28) of air out of it all. And then I've (01:15:30) noticed with them, then they're less (01:15:31) cross with me, which is always nice, (01:15:33) which is really helpful for family life. (01:15:36) Yeah. Kira, if you could write a letter (01:15:38) on motherhood. This is such a nice (01:15:40) question because who would it be to? (01:15:41) What would you say? (01:15:41) >> I don't know because wouldn't everyone (01:15:43) say shut up? (01:15:44) >> What do you mean? (01:15:45) >> Well, who would you say it to? Because I (01:15:47) can I I suddenly thought about anyone (01:15:48) writing me a letter like if my mom had (01:15:50) written me a letter about motherhood, I (01:15:51) would have just been like shut up. I'm (01:15:52) doing it my own way. (01:15:54) >> Wouldn't you? (01:15:54) >> It's very true. It's very true. (01:15:56) >> Who would you write your letter to? (01:15:57) >> Well, so this question exists because I (01:15:59) wrote a whole book. It was a collection (01:16:00) of letters. I wrote to the boys. I wrote (01:16:03) to my boobs. I wrote to my mobile. I (01:16:04) wrote to my mom, my dad, Tom. Um, my (01:16:08) past self. (01:16:09) >> I think past self is an interesting one. (01:16:11) >> Yeah. (01:16:12) >> Yeah. (01:16:13) >> What' you say? (01:16:15) >> Good luck. (01:16:19) >> That body is not coming back. Enjoy it (01:16:21) while it lasts. (01:16:22) >> Did you feel a pressure with that? (01:16:24) Because your body is talked, you know, (01:16:25) >> talked about. (01:16:26) >> Yeah. (01:16:26) >> Um, yes and no. I I was I was very (01:16:31) surprised that it didn't I've always had (01:16:33) a body where it it I did I had to do (01:16:36) very little and it was just one of those (01:16:37) thin bodies, you know, it came back and (01:16:39) it didn't and it it hasn't, you know. Um (01:16:43) and so yeah, I was surprised, but I was (01:16:45) also like (01:16:47) >> I was also like more important things. (01:16:49) I'll just buy a bigger size of jeans. I (01:16:50) mean I I kept my clothes from pre (01:16:53) thinking that I would be able to fit. (01:16:54) >> How long did you keep them for? (01:16:56) >> Until after the second child. (01:16:58) >> Oh, really? Yeah. So, until Delila was (01:17:00) about one and then I was like, "Oh, I (01:17:03) mean my shoulders are broader." (01:17:05) >> But this I always wonder what is having (01:17:07) a baby and what is getting older? (01:17:10) >> Well, this is a very good question. I (01:17:12) mean, this is a very good question. (01:17:14) >> No, I think a lot of it is. (01:17:17) I think my I can say my rib cage and my (01:17:21) shoulders. (01:17:21) >> Yes. Yes. (01:17:22) >> Right. I mean, like I am just rib cage. (01:17:25) >> Same. I but I put on like I've never (01:17:28) been able to wear across my shoulders is (01:17:30) bigger. (01:17:31) >> Really? No. Is that just because I'm (01:17:33) stronger because I'm lifting things? (01:17:35) Maybe (01:17:35) >> you're hench. (01:17:36) >> I'm hench. (01:17:36) >> Mhm. (01:17:37) >> Buff. (01:17:38) >> Um that's it actually. That's it. (01:17:41) >> Just claim it. (01:17:42) >> Do you know what? I will. It's just made (01:17:43) me feel great. (01:17:46) >> Amazing. (01:17:47) >> I love it when something needs to be (01:17:48) done at home and you know maybe Tom's (01:17:51) busy or whatever and I'm just like I'm (01:17:52) going to just do it. And the boys (01:17:54) reaction when they're like wow. Yeah, (01:17:56) >> mom's just lifting stuff. (01:17:57) >> Yeah, but I might I mean, you must be (01:18:00) it. I'm strong. Yeah, I've I've carried (01:18:02) those children. Those children were well (01:18:04) and truly lifted in every single which (01:18:06) way. I'm actually quite worried cuz my (01:18:08) six-year-old is now she's just getting (01:18:10) that bit where she's a bit heavy. Think (01:18:12) about working out again cuz that's going (01:18:13) to that's going to go in a minute. Yeah, (01:18:15) it's all right. You're still buff. (01:18:16) You're fine. (01:18:16) >> Thanks. Cheers. (01:18:17) >> Okay, so Lettera is just saying good (01:18:19) luck. (01:18:20) >> Good luck. Good luck. And say goodbye. (01:18:21) >> See you on the other side. (01:18:22) >> Yeah. Yeah. See you on the other side. (01:18:23) It's going to be fine. Yeah. We end the (01:18:25) podcast with you completing three (01:18:28) sentences. (01:18:28) >> Okay. (01:18:29) >> The first one is being a mom means (01:18:32) >> everything. (01:18:34) >> Since having children, I (01:18:38) >> go. Since having children, I really (01:18:42) value sleep and I'm happy when my kids (01:18:45) are happy. (01:18:46) >> Kira, thank you so much. It's been an (01:18:48) absolute delight. I've I've absolutely (01:18:50) You've delivered. (01:18:51) >> Thank you very much. I'm glad I've (01:18:52) delivered. I really hope I haven't said (01:18:54) anything that's going to get me into (01:18:55) trouble, and I probably have, but I'm (01:18:57) glad I've delivered. (01:18:57) >> That's tomorrow's problem. Don't worry (01:18:59) about fine. (01:19:01) >> Brilliant. Thank you so much. (01:19:02) >> Thank you.