Raising Resilient Kids w/ Jordan B. Peterson (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) Well, Dr. Jordan B. Peterson has a brand (00:00:02) new five-part series titled Parenting (00:00:04) available now at Daily Wire Plus, and he (00:00:06) joins us on the line to discuss. Jordan, (00:00:08) thanks so much for taking time. Really (00:00:09) appreciate it. Hey, it's always good to (00:00:11) see you, Ben, and to have the (00:00:12) opportunity. So, first of all, I want to (00:00:14) start with a little game. We actually (00:00:15) coordinated this with your daughter, (00:00:16) Michaela. I have three questions for (00:00:18) you, and she gave me her answers, and I (00:00:20) want to see if your answers match hers. (00:00:22) So, uh Oh, yeah. Here we go. So, (00:00:25) question number one, what was your most (00:00:27) difficult parenting challenge? (00:00:30) Oh, that would be the illness. Dealing (00:00:32) with my daughter's illness fundamentally (00:00:34) trying to make sure that we (00:00:39) helped her not (00:00:41) ever use her illness as a crutch and (00:00:43) then also help her (00:00:46) have the courage to pursue her life and (00:00:49) even some dangerous activities despite (00:00:52) the fact that she was physically (00:00:54) fragile. That was that was complex. (00:00:56) Yeah. Well, that one definitely matches (00:00:57) up and that sounds pretty pretty (00:00:59) terrible. Obviously, I want to talk to (00:01:00) you more about, you know, what it means (00:01:02) to to parent through trauma and how you (00:01:04) deal with with situations like that in a (00:01:06) moment. Yeah, we could talk about her (00:01:08) motorcycle lessons. That's a really good (00:01:10) story. Oh, yeah. Why don't you tell (00:01:11) that? Yeah. Well, (00:01:14) this wasn't long after Michaela had her (00:01:16) hip replaced or her ankle. I don't (00:01:20) remember which cuz they were both (00:01:21) replaced when she was in her mid- teens (00:01:24) and she really couldn't (00:01:27) get around well and we had we'd hoped (00:01:31) that she could drive a scooter cuz that (00:01:34) would give her mobility. Now there's (00:01:36) some danger in that when you have (00:01:37) fragile joints obviously but there's (00:01:39) also some danger in not being able to do (00:01:40) anything and not to be able to move (00:01:42) around. and she went to motorcycle (00:01:45) lessons with her mom and on the second (00:01:49) day if I remember correctly someone took (00:01:51) a pretty vicious spill and you know that (00:01:55) frightened her and not unreasonably and (00:01:59) she woke up on the third day and wasn't (00:02:03) sure she could go. So we encouraged her (00:02:06) to drive to the parking lot with her (00:02:09) mother. Right? That's an approach (00:02:11) behavior. Right? It's partway there and (00:02:13) to evaluate in the situation and then (00:02:17) she did that and then she finished her (00:02:20) motorcycle lessons and then she (00:02:22) graduated in the class and everybody (00:02:24) clapped because of that and then she had (00:02:26) that scooter for couple of years and it (00:02:29) was a real lifesaver you know and all (00:02:31) that was risk right because you know we (00:02:34) were very (00:02:36) ambivalent about putting our newly (00:02:39) surgically repaired daughter on um (00:02:41) motorcycle in a city. But the thing (00:02:45) about life, Ben, is there's risks no (00:02:46) matter what you do, right? There's risks (00:02:49) of not doing things. There's risks of (00:02:51) doing them. And both of those risks can (00:02:54) be cataclysmic. And people will (00:02:56) generally pick the stasis risk. They'll (00:02:58) pick the status quo. And that's not (00:03:02) wise. You should always evaluate the (00:03:04) stasis risk. What happens if I don't (00:03:07) change? Right? How am I going to (00:03:09) deteriorate? what opportunities am I (00:03:11) going to miss. What are the risks of (00:03:13) taking a risk? And that's that puts your (00:03:16) mind at ease. And it it was great. You (00:03:18) know, it was it the the scooter. She (00:03:20) loved that thing and she was very (00:03:22) careful on it and it gave her immense (00:03:26) mobility and the whole (00:03:30) adventure also produced an increment in (00:03:33) courage. She's always been courageous (00:03:35) and tough, but that definitely helped. (00:03:37) So yeah, that was that was useful. Okay, (00:03:41) so second question is what's one (00:03:43) parenting moment that you would do over (00:03:45) if you could? (00:03:47) Oh, there was a time when Mick was a kid (00:03:51) that she was and likely a consequence of (00:03:54) her illness which made her irritable. (00:03:56) Surprise, surprise, because she was in (00:03:58) pain all the time. She was pretty (00:04:01) disrespectful to her mother and I wasn't (00:04:04) very happy with that. and I kind of (00:04:06) pushed her up against a wall one night (00:04:08) and you know read her the riot act and (00:04:12) that I think I think it was I think I (00:04:15) pushed harder then than I should have. I (00:04:17) think like I was making a point and it (00:04:20) needed to be made because there was no (00:04:22) way that I was going to have my kids (00:04:24) treat my wife and their mother without (00:04:27) respect regardless of the reason really. (00:04:30) And so an intervention needed to be (00:04:32) made. But that is one event that sticks (00:04:35) in my memory and I think I you know the (00:04:39) rule of thumb always is minimal (00:04:40) necessary force right and that's a (00:04:42) negotiation because what does minimal (00:04:45) necessary mean? It means what works but (00:04:48) isn't too much and that's a very tight (00:04:50) edge. It's why it's so useful to have (00:04:52) two parents because one can keep an eye (00:04:56) on the other when there's trouble of (00:04:59) foot and Tammy was there and (00:05:03) you know paying attention but that does (00:05:05) stick in my mind and so (00:05:08) you know it's possible that that (00:05:10) happened at a time when I was irritable (00:05:12) and so (00:05:13) that's a bad conjunction. I've (00:05:15) definitely been there myself. My wife (00:05:16) and I have a rule which is that if she (00:05:17) starts to see me starting to boil over, (00:05:19) she has to come and tag me out because (00:05:20) when you're in the middle of it, it's (00:05:22) very difficult to to recognize with any (00:05:24) level of objectivity that that you're (00:05:26) going too far. Uh and so having a (00:05:29) partner there to be able to say, "Okay, (00:05:30) you need to step out of the room now." (00:05:32) is like a huge huge thing. Oh yeah. (00:05:34) Well, and a lot of what you do as (00:05:37) married parents is spell each other, (00:05:41) right? And I saw that was particularly (00:05:43) the case, particularly obvious I think (00:05:46) in in during that nine-month period of (00:05:49) early infant care, which is primarily (00:05:52) falls by necessity on the mother. Um, (00:05:55) it's also an opportunity for the mother (00:05:57) to really get to know the baby and to (00:05:59) bond and to lay the groundwork for much (00:06:02) less trouble later and to provide (00:06:04) security to the infant. So it's not all (00:06:06) cost by any stretch of the imagination. (00:06:08) But a man's role during that period is (00:06:10) essentially to observe and spell and so (00:06:14) y and then so Michaela Michaela said on (00:06:17) the first question by the way she agreed (00:06:19) with you that that the most difficult (00:06:20) parenting challenge was was her illness (00:06:22) and dealing with it. As far as the (00:06:23) parenting moment you would do over (00:06:25) again. She suggested that it was (00:06:26) recognizing the role of diet in your (00:06:28) lives to try to avoid some of the health (00:06:30) traumas. (00:06:31) Oh, well, it would have been lovely to (00:06:33) have figured that out earlier. No doubt (00:06:35) about that because the carnivore diet (00:06:38) completely (00:06:40) brought her symptoms to a halt. And I (00:06:42) have immunological or problems that made (00:06:46) themselves manifest in a variety of (00:06:48) ways. Um, some more obviously (00:06:51) immunological and some more associated (00:06:54) with depression, which is often an (00:06:55) immunological disease. And the carnivore (00:06:58) diet just stopped that. It's It's (00:07:00) unbelievable really. Well, I mean, first (00:07:02) of all, I love meat, so I'm going to (00:07:03) have to try it just anyway. But but the (00:07:05) question number three is what your (00:07:07) proudest moment was as a dad. I've had a (00:07:11) lot of those. (00:07:13) Um, (00:07:15) my son Julian, I had a really good trip (00:07:19) with him (00:07:21) to New York. He sang with a choir there. (00:07:25) Um (00:07:27) it was a it was an ortorio that was (00:07:30) memorializing the children of Terzin (00:07:34) Theresian and the concentration camp for (00:07:37) children. Um and he sang at Carnegie (00:07:40) Hall and at the UN (00:07:42) that was that was good. Um he's a very (00:07:46) good musician. He opens for my shows (00:07:49) from time to time. That's pretty (00:07:52) impressive. um watching both him and (00:07:56) Michaela build thriving companies and (00:08:00) take responsibility for that and to be (00:08:02) able to do that. That's pretty great. Um (00:08:06) seeing them (00:08:08) combine their careers with children. (00:08:10) They each have three kids and maybe (00:08:12) they'll have more and so that's a pretty (00:08:14) damn good deal. (00:08:17) There's a lot of them, Ben. I mean, (00:08:22) most of my memories of my kids, (00:08:25) regardless of their stage of (00:08:28) development, they're overwhelmingly (00:08:31) positive. We'll get to more on this in (00:08:33) just one moment. First, here's something (00:08:34) fascinating. Until the 1990s, US (00:08:36) government classified encryption as (00:08:37) munitions, literally categorizing it (00:08:39) along weaponry. And you know what? They (00:08:41) were not totally wrong. Encryption is (00:08:42) indeed powerful. It is your shield (00:08:44) against those who want to exploit your (00:08:45) personal information online. That's why (00:08:47) we use ExpressVPN. 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It works (00:09:19) across all your devices, phones, (00:09:21) laptops, tablets, and a single (00:09:22) subscription covers up to eight devices. (00:09:24) Find out how you can get four months for (00:09:26) free by scanning the QR code on screen, (00:09:28) clicking the link in the description box (00:09:29) below, or by heading on over to (00:09:31) expressvpn.com/benyt. (00:09:32) [Music] (00:09:33) That's expressvpn.com/benyt. (00:09:36) She named some of the same stuff that (00:09:37) that you named, launching Peterson (00:09:39) Academy, uh, you know, working on her (00:09:41) autoimmunity and and all the rest of (00:09:42) that. Actually, you know, this is (00:09:44) actually a question that I have (00:09:45) generally about parenting and that is (00:09:47) that when people think of their own (00:09:49) parents, they tend to think of uh at (00:09:52) different stages of their lives, I guess (00:09:53) I'll ask it as a question. At different (00:09:55) stages of their lives, is there more of (00:09:57) a positive or negative shading to how (00:09:58) they think of their parents? Because I (00:09:59) will say that when I think of my own (00:10:01) kids, uh I I like you tend to think of (00:10:03) all the good things about my kids right (00:10:05) now, like when I'm not with them. When (00:10:07) when they're being a pain in the ass, (00:10:08) it's a bit of a different story because (00:10:09) obviously you're watching it happen in (00:10:11) real time. But uh it feels like there is (00:10:14) in fact an imbalance between how kids (00:10:15) think of their parents and how parents (00:10:17) think of their kids. Well, the thing (00:10:19) about children that differentiates them (00:10:22) from parents is that the children have (00:10:24) to establish independence. And so (00:10:27) they're always (00:10:29) although attached to their parents (00:10:30) they're also always impelled to adapt to (00:10:35) the current social millu which is much (00:10:37) of what they do say from the age of 11 (00:10:40) till (00:10:42) mid20s likely and that produces a (00:10:46) necessary tension. I left home when I (00:10:49) was just 17 and there was tension (00:10:53) between me and my father in particular. (00:10:56) Um, and I would say that was I had (00:10:59) plenty to do with that uh with my (00:11:02) miscreant reprobate friends, but dad had (00:11:05) some to do with it. And then as soon as (00:11:08) I left, went to college, our (00:11:11) relationship improved dramatically. So, (00:11:13) there's only a couple of years there. (00:11:15) But my mom said something. My mom was a (00:11:17) lovely person. It's about almost exactly (00:11:20) a year now since she's died, almost to (00:11:22) the day. She said she's a very kind (00:11:25) person but she had a spine and she said (00:11:28) to me something very wise which was part (00:11:31) of her ethos I was say would say which (00:11:33) was if it was too good at home you'd (00:11:36) never leave and that's like the most (00:11:39) anti-ediple complex statement I've ever (00:11:41) heard you know and it was very (00:11:43) interesting coming to her because she (00:11:44) was a pretty soft touch all things (00:11:47) considered but um she didn't fall prey (00:11:50) to that over abundant maternal love that (00:11:54) interferes with you know independence. (00:11:57) So children have to negotiate that and (00:11:59) that happens a lot in the teenage years (00:12:01) especially say from about (00:12:05) maybe that peaks around 15 something (00:12:08) like that starts to make its appearance (00:12:09) around 13. We negotiated the teenage (00:12:12) years pretty successfully I would say. (00:12:14) Um, our kids were they had their friends (00:12:17) at home a lot and we gave them a fair (00:12:19) bit of (00:12:21) leeway although it was supervised. Uh, (00:12:25) but we had a rule which we told all (00:12:27) their friends which was we're very happy (00:12:29) you're here and you're welcome but if (00:12:31) you do something stupid and we never (00:12:32) have to see you again that's not going (00:12:34) to hurt our feas. (00:12:36) So, so Jordan, I want to I want to (00:12:38) finish this off by just asking you what (00:12:40) you think is the single biggest and most (00:12:42) common mistake you see parents make. (00:12:46) Well, I wrote about that in some detail (00:12:48) in in 12 rules for life. There's a (00:12:50) chapter in there called do not let your (00:12:52) children do anything that makes you (00:12:54) dislike them. And that's see parents (00:12:58) don't believe that they could dislike (00:13:00) their children. And they often don't (00:13:03) believe that anyone else could either. (00:13:05) And both of those is a mistake. And if (00:13:07) your children are doing things that (00:13:10) irritate you, well, maybe that's you. (00:13:12) And you could talk to your wife and find (00:13:14) out if it's you and and vice versa with (00:13:18) your wife with with the wife uh in (00:13:20) relationship to the husband. But those (00:13:22) things should be nipped in the bud. (00:13:25) Like your job as a parent is quite (00:13:27) straightforward and modern people don't (00:13:29) understand what it is. Your job as a (00:13:31) parent is to make your encourage your (00:13:34) child to be maximally socially (00:13:37) acceptable by the time they're four (00:13:39) years old because that's the children (00:13:42) are extremely enscconced in the domestic (00:13:46) environment up till about four. At four (00:13:49) their peer group becomes their primary (00:13:52) socialization influence. And that has to (00:13:55) be that way because they have to adapt (00:13:56) to the current circumstance. And if you (00:14:01) allow your child to engage in behaviors (00:14:05) that are dislikable, inability to share, (00:14:08) selfcenteredness, (00:14:10) um no appreciation for taking turns, no (00:14:13) ability to take the other person's (00:14:15) perspective, (00:14:16) um which is really all a prolonged (00:14:19) immaturity. Like narcissism, men, even (00:14:22) psychopathy, (00:14:24) although there there's some complication (00:14:26) to this, are best conceptualized as (00:14:29) prolonged. (00:14:31) It's prolonged, a state of prolonged (00:14:32) immaturity. And that gets more and more (00:14:35) pathological the more intense it is and (00:14:37) the longer it's dragged out. You don't (00:14:40) want any of that. And you know, if (00:14:43) you're eagle-eyed, and and this was (00:14:46) something we did particularly with (00:14:47) Julian because he was more (00:14:50) um disagreeable by temperament. So, (00:14:54) which isn't surprising because he was (00:14:55) male and there's no shortage of (00:14:58) disagreeable, relatively disagreeable (00:15:01) men on my side of the family and on (00:15:03) Tammy's. Um, we ju we would just watch (00:15:06) him like a hawk and every time he (00:15:08) deviated from the (00:15:12) from the path that made him extremely (00:15:15) pleasant to be around, we let him know (00:15:19) and he got unbelievably good at playing (00:15:21) that line and he turned into an (00:15:23) extraordinarily diplomatic person. And (00:15:26) so the mistake is (00:15:30) you can be a tyrant. Um, I think that's (00:15:33) a less common error now, especially with (00:15:36) the absence of men that characterizes so (00:15:38) many children's lives. But an excess of (00:15:41) tolerance is not a virtue. You're you're (00:15:44) there to every time your child does (00:15:46) something that would make them stand out (00:15:49) negatively with their friends or with (00:15:51) other adults, your job is to let them (00:15:54) know because what you want, I mean, you (00:15:56) just need to think about this as a (00:15:58) vision. You want your child to have the (00:16:00) kind of manners and social graces and (00:16:02) social intelligence that makes them (00:16:05) unbelievably welcome to children (00:16:09) wherever they go and fully capable of (00:16:12) eliciting from adults a positive (00:16:14) response. So the world opens up to them. (00:16:18) Why the hell would you not want that? So (00:16:20) you teach them how to behave in (00:16:22) restaurants. You know, when we used to (00:16:23) take our kids to restaurants, we started (00:16:25) doing that when they were just barely (00:16:28) old enough to sit in a cantal levered (00:16:30) chair on the table. So like 9 10 months (00:16:33) old. And the rule was behave like a (00:16:38) civilized person or stand outside with (00:16:41) one parent. And the upshot of that was (00:16:44) we could take them anywhere and they (00:16:46) behaved and people almost invariably (00:16:50) complimented them. (00:16:52) And so that's a great deal when you can (00:16:54) take your kids out to a restaurant which (00:16:56) always sets especially if they're (00:16:58) toddlers sets the other diners on edge (00:17:01) and the weight staff and it goes smooth. (00:17:04) Like you can't sit there for two hours (00:17:06) cuz they're little kids, but you can sit (00:17:08) there for 45 minutes or maybe an hour. (00:17:10) And so (00:17:14) a stitch in time saves nine on the (00:17:16) disciplinary front, right? you you watch (00:17:19) and you communicate with your wife and (00:17:22) you don't let things slip and you watch (00:17:26) like if your child is irritating you and (00:17:29) your wife, it's probably because they're (00:17:32) irritating. (00:17:33) Right. Right. And you're a proxy for the (00:17:36) real world. That's your role as a (00:17:38) parent, proxy for the real world. So, (00:17:41) you shouldn't be any more merciful than (00:17:43) the real world, you know, with some (00:17:44) adjustment for age. Let's say you're not (00:17:47) doing your child any favors by making (00:17:49) your home their home life a more a place (00:17:54) that welcomes misbehavior more than the (00:17:56) actual world will. Okay. Well, well, (00:17:58) final question for you. So, you know, (00:18:01) obviously I I have four kids and one one (00:18:04) of the big issues with my kids is how to (00:18:06) get them to stop fighting with each (00:18:07) other. If they're acting badly to me or (00:18:08) my wife, we know how to handle that (00:18:10) because they're kids and we're adults. (00:18:11) But I want to get your advice on when (00:18:13) they're picking on one another, when (00:18:15) they're complaining about each other to (00:18:17) us, how do you deal with with the kids (00:18:19) fighting with each other, which is a big (00:18:20) issue when you have a bunch of kids? (00:18:22) Well, one of the things we used to do (00:18:24) was if one child was tormenting the (00:18:28) other, we had a pretty much a zero (00:18:30) tormenting policy and there was a reason (00:18:32) for that, which was that our children (00:18:34) were born relatively close together. So (00:18:36) it's 17 months I believe and sibling (00:18:40) rivalry is most likely for children who (00:18:44) are less than separated by less than (00:18:46) three years because when the new baby (00:18:48) comes along the previous child is still (00:18:51) really (00:18:53) at you know if they're 17 months is (00:18:55) still a pretty young person. So there's (00:18:59) room immediately for jealousy. We (00:19:02) started preparing Michaela for Julian's (00:19:04) birth (00:19:06) before he was born a lot and we taught (00:19:09) her for example how to come for a hug (00:19:12) and we we would practice that with her (00:19:14) you know so that so we told her when (00:19:16) Julian came that anytime she needed (00:19:19) attention she could just come and (00:19:20) request it but we played that out like a (00:19:23) drama and got her to be expert at that (00:19:25) and then we also let her know that there (00:19:29) would be a step forward in mature for (00:19:32) her and that would provide her with more (00:19:33) freedom, you know, in so far as we could (00:19:35) communicate that to a toddler. It's not (00:19:38) straightforward to do that, but that (00:19:39) also that was her baby, too, and that (00:19:43) she could play a cardinal role in his um (00:19:48) care, which she did. And that meant that (00:19:50) whatever she lost from her mom in (00:19:53) particular, she gained from him and from (00:19:54) me. So, that sort of laid the groundwork (00:19:56) for that. And then if they were (00:19:59) torturing each other, one of the things (00:20:02) we had them do was to, you know, maybe (00:20:04) one child would break down in tears. If (00:20:08) you watch your children carefully when (00:20:09) that happens, the tormentor will avoid (00:20:17) apprehending the consequences of their (00:20:19) misbehavior. They won't look at the (00:20:21) distressed child. So, one of the things (00:20:24) we insisted on was that they look at the (00:20:28) results of their action. Like literally, (00:20:30) you're not turning away. You look and (00:20:32) see what happened. That's the (00:20:35) consequence of your behavior. Now, if (00:20:36) you get a child to attend to the misery (00:20:38) of another child, they'll feel it. And (00:20:41) then, well, then they know that, well, (00:20:44) then you can ask them, it's like, what (00:20:46) you is that what you want? Is that how (00:20:48) you want things to go? And so (00:20:52) we had a very there was some sibling (00:20:55) rivalry between me and my sister in my (00:20:57) house and there were times when that got (00:20:59) out of hand and it wasn't pleasant and (00:21:02) it it was something my parents could (00:21:04) have been on top of more and so we swore (00:21:07) when we had kids that that wasn't going (00:21:10) to happen. And so I think a lot of it (00:21:13) Ben is to intervene early and to set the (00:21:17) standard. Another thing that's real (00:21:19) useful that you can do and this is this (00:21:22) is extremely useful as a disciplinary (00:21:25) strategy in general. It's a very (00:21:26) positive one is watch your kids and when (00:21:30) they're doing something right tell them (00:21:33) and tell them exactly what you see. Say (00:21:36) look you go into your their room maybe (00:21:38) you have three kids playing together and (00:21:40) you say look kids this is what I saw. (00:21:42) You've been playing together for 25 (00:21:44) minutes. You're all laughing. You're all (00:21:47) having fun. It looks like it's going (00:21:48) real well. There's no tears. There's no (00:21:51) arguments. Like, I don't know what (00:21:53) you're doing in here right now, but (00:21:55) that's we'd like to see a lot more of (00:21:57) that. Great work. And you you want to (00:21:59) make it specific and you want to make (00:22:01) sure they attend. And that's so (00:22:03) effective. Like BF Skinner, who was a (00:22:06) behaviorist, mo world's most famous (00:22:08) behaviorist, he could train animals to (00:22:09) do almost everything, anything. He knew (00:22:12) that you could train behavior using (00:22:15) punishment and threat, but that reward (00:22:17) was much more effective. But reward is (00:22:20) tricky because you have to walk. Like if (00:22:22) you're punishing, there's an altercation (00:22:25) and you notice if things are going real (00:22:28) well, it's easy to not (00:22:31) caught on to that. But this is true when (00:22:35) you're mentoring someone, too. It's also (00:22:36) true with your wife or your husband. If (00:22:38) you can see something that's happening (00:22:41) that you would like to see repeated a (00:22:44) lot in the future, defining that, (00:22:46) pointing it out, and rewarding it, (00:22:49) that's unbelievably useful. And it and (00:22:52) then that also trains you to to be (00:22:55) attentive to what's actually working (00:22:59) well in your household. You know, smooth (00:23:01) things tend to become invisible and (00:23:04) that's not good. That's not good. And (00:23:08) it's also very useful to reward an (00:23:11) improvement, right? So you could improve (00:23:14) reward a steady state that's good. But (00:23:16) if you can see that a child is (00:23:18) attempting something new like to get (00:23:19) along better with their siblings for for (00:23:22) example, then uh rewarding that pointing (00:23:26) that out and rewarding it is also (00:23:27) extremely useful. I would say (00:23:30) you're it's reasonable for you to aim in (00:23:32) your household for (00:23:35) a real minimum of altercation. It may (00:23:37) also be Ben that you'll have to sit your (00:23:39) kids down for a meeting now and then. We (00:23:42) had a family meeting once a week where (00:23:44) we parsed out household jobs and there (00:23:47) were rules around the meeting which was (00:23:50) you we come to an agreement once the (00:23:53) agreement's in place you keep it. If you (00:23:55) can come up with a better agreement, (00:23:57) fine, but we're going to go with the one (00:23:58) we have. If you get upset during the (00:24:00) meeting, you can leave, but you have to (00:24:03) come back, right? And all it's very (00:24:06) useful to set aside time for explicit (00:24:09) negotiation (00:24:11) even between your children, not least to (00:24:13) teach them how to negotiate because (00:24:15) people are very bad at negotiating. (00:24:17) They're very bad at saying what they (00:24:19) want. They're very bad at eliciting from (00:24:22) other people descriptions of what they (00:24:24) want and need. And they're very bad at (00:24:26) strategizing. And if you teach your kids (00:24:28) those skills, they they're going to (00:24:31) thrive. It's so useful. When my kids (00:24:34) left home and they went off to with (00:24:36) their roommates, one of the first things (00:24:38) they did with their roommates was set up (00:24:40) a weekly meeting with their roommates to (00:24:42) negotiate how the household was going to (00:24:44) run. They knew how to do that, and (00:24:46) they've done that with their wives and (00:24:48) their husbands. So, negotiation skills, (00:24:51) man. Then everybody can get what they (00:24:53) want and need. Well, the series is (00:24:56) indeed parenting. It's a five-part (00:24:58) series. It's available right now on (00:24:59) Daily Wire Plus. I think it's one of the (00:25:00) best things we ever put out at Daily (00:25:02) Wire Plus. You're going to want to go (00:25:03) check that out right now. Jordan, great (00:25:04) to see you. Thanks a lot, Ben. Very good (00:25:06) talking to you and good luck with those (00:25:08) squabbling children.