Going One on One With Palantir CEO Alex Karp | The Big Interview | WIRED (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) We have to build systems like Palanteer (00:00:02) and we have to explain to people with (00:00:04) workingclass skills, people with normal (00:00:05) jobs, that their labor is going to (00:00:07) become more important and more valuable (00:00:08) over time [music] with products like (00:00:10) ours. If you run around saying that, you (00:00:12) know, oh, the economy is going to (00:00:13) completely shift to value creation only (00:00:15) owned by 10,000 [music] people, people (00:00:18) on the left and the right are going to (00:00:19) go nuts. (00:00:20) >> I'm Steven Levy, editor at large at (00:00:21) Wired. I sat down with Alex Karp, CEO of (00:00:24) Palunteer, a controversial company that (00:00:27) orchestrates data [music] and solves (00:00:28) problems for government and business. We (00:00:31) discussed Palunteer's work with ICE in (00:00:33) Israel and why he feels the company has (00:00:35) no competitors. Welcome to the big (00:00:37) interview. (00:00:39) [music] (00:00:44) >> Well, first of all, let me say welcome (00:00:46) to the big interview. Okay, Dr. Alex (00:00:48) Gor, (00:00:48) >> you've said that Palunteer is at odds (00:00:52) with Silicon Valley from the very (00:00:54) beginning. You have kind of a harsh (00:00:56) critique of Silicon Valley. You want (00:00:58) Palunteer to be different. What do you (00:01:01) think the biggest problem Silicon Valley (00:01:03) was? (00:01:03) >> Well, we you we have we have a long and (00:01:06) mandering relationship with Silicon (00:01:07) Valley. In the beginning, we were at (00:01:09) odds because we were pro-American, pro- (00:01:11) West, and pro making the government (00:01:13) functional. And that was very (00:01:14) controversial in Silicon Valley because (00:01:15) it equated to not making any money and (00:01:18) being a loser. We won that battle and I (00:01:20) think Silicon Valley actually has become (00:01:22) very at least officially and even beyond (00:01:24) closed doors patriotic. And Silicon (00:01:26) Valley uh has always been pro (00:01:28) meritocracy and we're very aligned with (00:01:30) that. where we're currently uh at like a (00:01:33) misalignment alignment. Apex again is we (00:01:36) believe in using large language models (00:01:38) in a way that creates actual empirical (00:01:40) value but also is very strong for (00:01:42) workers, technical people. Uh whether (00:01:45) you're plumber, carpenter, electrician, (00:01:47) or you are a high school grad working in (00:01:48) a plant where you'd normally be doing (00:01:50) engineering things or couldn't do them. (00:01:51) We see our products as being able to (00:01:53) enhance your market value. And so we're (00:01:55) kind of pro- labor and promilitary. So (00:01:58) we're much closer to Silicon Valley on (00:01:59) the patriotism thing. But for decades, (00:02:02) uh, we fought Silicon Valley about, you (00:02:05) know, government is something we should (00:02:07) support. We walked towards the (00:02:09) government when everyone walked away. (00:02:10) That's how we ended up powering, uh, (00:02:12) Maven, which is the, you know, US (00:02:14) government's military. (00:02:15) >> We took advantage when the Google (00:02:16) workforce said, "We don't want Google to (00:02:19) work on Maven." And they (00:02:21) >> then we built it. Yeah. But (00:02:22) >> explain what project Maven is. Well, so (00:02:24) to find an adversary on a battlefield (00:02:27) from any sensor including space is a (00:02:30) massive integration and analytics (00:02:31) project. So how do you find basically a (00:02:33) needle on a haststack and where that (00:02:35) needle uh is also complex because it may (00:02:38) look like your adversary but maybe that (00:02:40) person's actually working for you. Maybe (00:02:41) they're maybe they're in your service, (00:02:43) maybe their phone has been compromised. (00:02:45) Finding that needle in a haststack. (00:02:46) refined uh person that is your adversary (00:02:49) you want to take out across a massive (00:02:51) landscape where you have a human (00:02:53) controlled in the loop like targeting (00:02:55) workbench. So you say you know this (00:02:56) target's been approved why under what (00:02:58) conditions uh the data protections that (00:03:00) are necessary the civil liberty (00:03:01) protections interestingly that are (00:03:03) necessary and doing that at scale on the (00:03:05) on the battlefield was not possible and (00:03:07) now it's been used in every operational (00:03:09) context uh across the world and and you (00:03:11) know it's there are many things that (00:03:12) have led to America's ability to (00:03:14) reestablish its deterrence I would say (00:03:16) after the disaster in Afghanistan but (00:03:18) one of them was actually one of many (00:03:21) corrosism of our soldiers may I think (00:03:23) one of the other things is just the (00:03:24) superior eriority of the targeting (00:03:26) capabilities the US government has and (00:03:28) you know there are other people other (00:03:30) companies but we are the backbone of (00:03:31) that. A lot of your government (00:03:33) connections, they go back early. You (00:03:35) know, you've worked for ICE. You had (00:03:37) long-term contract with them, right? (00:03:39) >> Well, that's actually later. I mean, our (00:03:40) first contracts were at uh US (00:03:43) intelligence, so CIA, special (00:03:45) operations, and um and FBI, and our (00:03:48) biggest contracts ended up being in the (00:03:50) DoD. And then later we started working (00:03:52) at Homeland Security under Democrats. (00:03:54) Now, it's very controversial because (00:03:56) it's Trump in my view. Well, it's (00:03:58) controversial because he's doing things (00:04:00) that we haven't seen done before. I want (00:04:02) to ask you, are you do you keep an eye (00:04:05) on that? Do are you making sure that (00:04:07) your products are being used according (00:04:09) to your code which supports democracy (00:04:12) and you know says people can't be (00:04:15) discriminated against. I'm wondering if (00:04:17) there's a line for you where you would (00:04:19) say to a president, no, (00:04:21) >> we we were the f I mean this is like (00:04:23) there's all these things that no one (00:04:24) believes are true. I was the first and I (00:04:27) may be one of the few CEOs to say we (00:04:29) would not build a Muslim database. Now, (00:04:31) everyone thinks I'm like and I am, you (00:04:33) know, I've defended Israel. I I think (00:04:35) like like people who wake up in the (00:04:37) morning thinking about how Jews are (00:04:39) running the world. Actually, you believe (00:04:40) whatever you want to believe. I not so (00:04:42) concerned about people who are skeptical (00:04:44) about Jews or even their anti-Semitic, (00:04:46) but like people who wake up in the (00:04:47) morning and the evening and night (00:04:49) thinking about this. I think like you (00:04:50) know, Jewish derangementism is a is a (00:04:52) little bit of a carcinogen. So I think (00:04:54) I'm the last person in the world people (00:04:56) kind of expect in the kind of rude and (00:04:59) crude way people think of this to refuse (00:05:01) revenue to build uh you know a Muslim (00:05:03) database and I would say more like at a (00:05:06) high level because I can't go into (00:05:07) details people internally no I pulled (00:05:11) things from places where I thought there (00:05:12) was anything like that going on in the (00:05:14) US discrimination yes I'm against that (00:05:16) by the way even if I was in favor of it (00:05:18) our products make that nearly as (00:05:21) impossible as anyone's ever seen in a (00:05:23) product because the way you do these (00:05:25) things, the way you discriminate against (00:05:27) people politically or based on their (00:05:29) gender or race is you do not have what (00:05:31) are called ales. So you can't see where (00:05:33) the data is flowing. What you can (00:05:35) immediately see not as a technical (00:05:36) person but as you your cameraman (00:05:38) everyone watching this can go look and (00:05:40) see how is the data merged how what kind (00:05:43) of pipelines did you create? What were (00:05:44) the assumptions that went into it? Where (00:05:46) did the data flow? But where you and I (00:05:48) disagree maybe is I spent half my life (00:05:52) in Europe. I am an immigration skeptic (00:05:55) like and I personally think that US (00:05:58) people meaning uh citizens have to (00:06:01) decide by their vote what our (00:06:04) immigration policy is going to be. And (00:06:06) I'll tell you one of the reasons I'm (00:06:07) very skeptical of my own party is that (00:06:09) open border was not only a disaster but (00:06:12) it was tolerating. And that is massively (00:06:15) corrosive and it's corrosive to (00:06:17) democracy and it's corrosive to people. (00:06:19) And leaving all the theory aside, like I (00:06:21) was I grew up in a progressive family. (00:06:22) Classic progressives my age and older (00:06:25) were massive immigration skeptics. Open (00:06:28) borders is not a progressive policy. It (00:06:31) is not a progressive policy. It never (00:06:32) was. And and and then the fruits of (00:06:35) this, you know, I spent most of my life, (00:06:37) adult life in Germany. Look at what a (00:06:39) version of open borders a little (00:06:41) different has done to Germany on any (00:06:42) vector. Rights of women, rights of gay (00:06:45) people, future. So again, I just want to (00:06:47) make it clear. I am against (00:06:49) discrimination. I'm not saying you're (00:06:50) saying this, but people tend to merge (00:06:52) being against discrimination with being (00:06:54) to be against discrimination. I have to (00:06:56) accept that there's nothing that can be (00:06:58) done about illegal immigration in the (00:07:00) West. And I just I disagree with that. (00:07:02) But more importantly than me disagreeing (00:07:03) with it, the American people disagree (00:07:05) with it. And I quite frankly are not (00:07:07) asking this. I think one of the reasons (00:07:08) why the Democratic Party continues to (00:07:10) fail and continues to fail and continues (00:07:12) to fail is their talent managed. which (00:07:14) like in businesses like you have this (00:07:16) problem where the people doing the work (00:07:19) sometimes need to be told no you're (00:07:21) wrong and we're not doing that and the (00:07:22) Democratic party and people like it the (00:07:24) Green Party in Germany I don't view (00:07:26) these policies as progressive (00:07:27) >> well I guess what I'm saying is are you (00:07:29) monitoring sort of what's happening with (00:07:32) this government and democracy in this (00:07:34) country and saying maybe at some point I (00:07:38) have to look at (00:07:39) >> I would say the more important question (00:07:40) is have I ever worked against our (00:07:42) commercial interest because it violated (00:07:44) our norms? Yes. Have I done this in (00:07:46) governments? Yes. Have I refused? We get (00:07:48) no credit for this, but we almost went (00:07:50) out of business because I we were not (00:07:51) working in Russia, China, or anywhere (00:07:53) else. So, yes. Have we refused to ser (00:07:55) give our product to foreign governments (00:07:57) because we didn't agree with them? Yes. (00:07:59) Do I agree with your implicit assertion (00:08:02) that what's going on in immigration as (00:08:04) you formulate it has never been done (00:08:05) before? No. I think actually that's (00:08:07) completely crazy. You know, when you're (00:08:09) in Japan, if you miss your visa, do you (00:08:12) know what happens to you? Um, I didn't (00:08:14) stay overstay my visa. (00:08:16) >> Great. I'll tell you what happens. You (00:08:17) politely are put on a plane. Is Japan (00:08:19) not a democracy? Do you know what (00:08:21) happens in in like Singapore? (00:08:22) >> Well, I I I think (00:08:24) >> is like So, you're But I just know I (00:08:26) think this is a very valuable line of (00:08:27) questioning. You're asking does our (00:08:30) product allow for civil rights abuses (00:08:32) and will I intervene? (00:08:34) >> Yeah. (00:08:34) >> Our product is the hardest in the world (00:08:36) to violate. Will I intervene? Yes. Do I (00:08:39) agree with some of the assertions you (00:08:40) just made? No. The legitimate criticism (00:08:42) could be, hey, here's these are two very (00:08:44) rational people. You know, you're (00:08:46) bringing up exactly the core and right (00:08:48) question and I'm telling you that I have (00:08:51) done this. I will do it and I'm continue (00:08:53) to do it. And by the way, not that (00:08:55) people our age like the term (00:08:56) constructive engagement. I am as (00:08:57) obnoxious and private as I am with you, (00:09:00) but people I agree with. So like when (00:09:02) they're asking me to do stupid I (00:09:04) can assure you I'm telling you, (00:09:05) >> wait, is this stupid (00:09:06) >> No. No. I'm not saying you're asking me (00:09:07) to do it, but I can assure you one of (00:09:09) the things you can be assertain of 100% (00:09:11) is when somebody calls me and asks me to (00:09:14) do some completely illogical, mostly (00:09:16) it's illogical before it's immoral. (00:09:17) That's the thing people understand. It's (00:09:19) illogical. It will not get you the (00:09:21) result you think. I am telling you them (00:09:23) this is illogical and we're not going to (00:09:24) do it. By the way, there's variants of (00:09:26) this commercial. I have commercial (00:09:28) clients, this is not even moral, who are (00:09:30) like, hey, could you give me 50 (00:09:31) engineers to do some crazy thing that (00:09:33) will not help their business? And you (00:09:34) know what I'm telling them? No, one of (00:09:36) the things that happens when people work (00:09:38) with me is they see I'm meeting clients (00:09:40) and they'll ask me to do something that (00:09:41) makes no sense. And I'll tell them I (00:09:44) can't go to my engineers and tell them (00:09:45) to do something makes no sense. And this (00:09:47) is I think a lot of these questions come (00:09:49) down to that now where we have to expand (00:09:51) the prism of dialogue is I think in in (00:09:55) complete honesty there is a place where (00:09:57) you and I forget you and I you step in (00:09:59) you're just honestly talking to you is (00:10:01) just like talking to my family. It's (00:10:03) like where where me and my family (00:10:04) disagree. And I'll tell you where those (00:10:06) places are. They're on the border, (00:10:08) they're in Israel, and they're in (00:10:10) Ukraine. And what's what's super (00:10:12) surprising is I get yelled at all day (00:10:14) about those three issues. And by the (00:10:16) way, the issue I don't get yelled at (00:10:17) about the elite is about Ukraine. The (00:10:19) issue I get obviously the Israel thing (00:10:21) is like, you know, only thing anyone (00:10:22) ever wants to talk about. You would you (00:10:24) would not it's like somehow people have (00:10:25) forgotten it's a country with a GDP (00:10:27) smaller than Switzerland. But you know, (00:10:29) and then my progressive friends, it's (00:10:31) all ice all day. (00:10:32) >> Some people might actually not even know (00:10:34) what Palanteer does in the shortest (00:10:37) possible way. Can you explain to people (00:10:39) who just know it as sort of something (00:10:41) they see on a page and don't like and (00:10:43) saying, "Hey, this is what it really (00:10:44) is." (00:10:45) >> Or love. We have a lot of people who (00:10:46) love us and some people who don't. But (00:10:48) yeah, it we we tend to elicit strong (00:10:50) reactions on both sides. So that's (00:10:52) definitely fair. If you're internal or (00:10:54) external intelligence, you're using us (00:10:56) to find terrorists and find organized (00:10:59) criminals while maintaining security and (00:11:01) maintaining the data protection of your (00:11:03) country. So like the highest data (00:11:05) protection environments in the world, (00:11:07) Western Europe, would love to get rid of (00:11:08) us. They try every day to get rid of us. (00:11:11) But building a a a data protection (00:11:13) environment that actually allows you to (00:11:15) do anti-organized criminality (00:11:16) environment with that also does data (00:11:18) protection at any level of granularity (00:11:20) at any level of complexity is very very (00:11:23) hard. Ask the German government but they (00:11:25) would love to find another alternative (00:11:27) and honestly I'd have no problem with (00:11:28) them finding but it's very hard. So (00:11:30) that's one thing we do. Then you have (00:11:31) the battlefield the project maven and (00:11:33) also organizing the battlefield what the (00:11:35) special forces use it for. How do you (00:11:36) know where your troops are? How do you (00:11:38) bring them home with all the data that (00:11:39) you'd have from any source environment? (00:11:41) How do you manage assets while doing (00:11:43) that? Meaning assets from the other side (00:11:44) assets meaning spies basically. How do (00:11:47) you get the human how do you how do you (00:11:49) prepare your egress? How do you how do (00:11:51) you get in and out of the battlefield uh (00:11:53) safely as safely as possible? So (00:11:55) avoiding mines, avoiding enemies, those (00:11:58) things change rapidly on the (00:11:59) battlefield. That's a software problem (00:12:00) that's powered in in great part by us (00:12:02) across America and and and with our (00:12:04) allies. How do you supply targeting (00:12:07) capabilities to allies uh Ukraine, (00:12:10) Israel, so that they get the product? (00:12:12) But obviously, we don't have access to (00:12:13) the full data they use because we're not (00:12:15) part of those countries. Um that's (00:12:17) that's a Palanteer thing. On the (00:12:18) commercial side, it's um you know, how (00:12:20) do you to make I mean the current (00:12:22) version would be if you want AI to work, (00:12:24) you're going to have to have precursor (00:12:26) things. You can think of as like the (00:12:27) precursors to making anything. What are (00:12:28) those things going to be? You're going (00:12:30) to need high fidelity data. to have high (00:12:32) fidelity data. You're going to need to (00:12:33) be able to integrate your data with the (00:12:34) model you understand. You're gonna have (00:12:36) to build something called pipelining, (00:12:37) meaning you can you can serialize and (00:12:39) deserialize a technical way of taking (00:12:40) apart and putting together the (00:12:42) assumptions with the data. You're going (00:12:43) to have to be able to maintain your (00:12:44) security model and maintain the logic (00:12:46) and actions of your business. And you're (00:12:47) going to have to be ab able to abstract (00:12:49) that. So, ontology. So shorthand, if (00:12:51) you're doing anything that involves (00:12:53) operational intelligence, whether it's (00:12:55) analytics or AI, (00:12:57) >> you're going to have to find something (00:12:59) like ontology or Foundry and, you know, (00:13:02) and and FDEEs to install it. That's (00:13:04) Palinger. (00:13:04) >> It's interesting because you going back (00:13:06) a little, you implied that, you know, (00:13:08) the rest of Silicon Valley hasn't (00:13:11) figured out how to do that. That you're (00:13:13) unique in (00:13:15) >> Well, (00:13:17) it's Yeah. What I'm really saying is we (00:13:19) know how to do it. If you find someone (00:13:21) else who can do it and you don't want to (00:13:23) work with us, buy it from them. (00:13:24) >> I mean, do is there anyone you consider (00:13:26) a competitor? (00:13:27) >> Our competition is actually political. (00:13:29) The woke left and the woke right wake up (00:13:31) every day figuring out how they can hurt (00:13:32) Palunteer. And if they get into power, (00:13:35) they'll hurt Palunteer. How could you (00:13:36) build a society with unfettered (00:13:38) migration in Europe and not have (00:13:39) Palunteer? I don't know how you're going (00:13:40) to do that, but they think they can do (00:13:42) that. If they win, if the communists in (00:13:44) France win, they will pull us out. If (00:13:46) the if like the Madani win of the de (00:13:48) Democratic party takes over, I viewed (00:13:50) that as my party, but if that's the (00:13:52) party, I'm not in it. Or if the right (00:13:54) woke wing, which is like everything is a (00:13:56) conspiracy, any use of technology is (00:13:59) actually going to only be used to (00:14:01) evviscerate and attack us, is like our (00:14:03) data protection pro part of Palunteer is (00:14:06) built into the software. It is literally (00:14:08) the hardest software to abuse in the (00:14:09) world, but they don't seem to want that. (00:14:11) If you like don't want meritocracy (00:14:13) either left or right, you don't like the (00:14:15) consequence of it, you hate Palunteer. (00:14:16) And that is actually our competition. (00:14:18) And uh and by the way, not that they (00:14:21) believe it, the thing that is protecting (00:14:23) those people, the people that hate us (00:14:24) the most is actually our product because (00:14:27) it is the hardest product to misuse to (00:14:29) to take away the rights of human beings (00:14:31) that's ever been built. And don't (00:14:33) believe me. Just go look at it. Spend 10 (00:14:35) minutes looking at it. Find a technical (00:14:37) person and look at our architecture or (00:14:39) look at it yourself. And that's actually (00:14:40) our competition. And you know, in a (00:14:42) weird way, we embrace the competition (00:14:44) because they say these crazy things (00:14:45) about us. And then the smart people go (00:14:47) look at it. (00:14:48) >> My head's spinning a little. How about (00:14:49) now we get in there? (00:14:50) >> I would say some of this is downstream (00:14:52) from if you explain to the world that (00:14:55) labor is going to be valueless. People (00:14:57) are going to elect the most ridiculous (00:14:59) people ever. We have to build systems (00:15:01) like Palanteer and we have to explain to (00:15:03) people but also let them see the results (00:15:05) the fruit of our labor that their labor (00:15:07) meaning (00:15:08) >> people with working-class skills people (00:15:10) with normal jobs that their labor is (00:15:13) going to become more important and more (00:15:14) valuable over time with products like (00:15:17) ours which happens to be true. If you (00:15:18) run around saying that, you know, all (00:15:20) the economy is going to completely shift (00:15:22) to uh value creation only owned by (00:15:25) 10,000 people, people on the left and (00:15:27) the right are going to go nuts and (00:15:28) they're going to vote for people who are (00:15:29) like, basically, yeah, nothing I've said (00:15:32) has ever worked in history. It has never (00:15:34) worked in history. You cannot find a (00:15:36) time in history where any of that stuff (00:15:38) has ever worked ever. they still will (00:15:40) gravitate to it because they're afraid (00:15:42) of what could work which is like an (00:15:44) AIdriven AGI environment where no one (00:15:46) has a job and the only people will make (00:15:48) money are like people sitting out here (00:15:50) and so that's part of the problem now (00:15:52) also honestly I mean you know I think (00:15:55) universities and elite institutions have (00:15:57) played a really corrosive role here (00:15:59) people are teaching pagan religion views (00:16:02) again pagan religion as it's a new (00:16:06) religion with sacrifices who's the (00:16:07) sacrifice me I'm the sacrifice And that (00:16:10) again, it's also like it's a form of (00:16:12) thought that has never worked. (00:16:14) >> You don't seem constrained to me. You're (00:16:16) you're doing great. (00:16:17) >> I mean, I'm not complaining. It's like I (00:16:19) I we're not Palunteer. We're not victims (00:16:21) at Palunteer. We're not playing the (00:16:22) victimhood thing. We don't I don't think (00:16:24) I'm a victim. I don't actually believe (00:16:26) we should these things should be framed (00:16:28) as victims. And yes, we're doing very (00:16:30) well. And you know, we might even do (00:16:32) better. (00:16:32) >> You'd have this bonkers earnings call in (00:16:35) February. Huge huge growth. And yeah, (00:16:37) >> well it's like people who are not (00:16:39) financial which is most people and (00:16:41) honestly I wouldn't be paying attention (00:16:42) to this if I wasn't running pounder (00:16:44) those numbers are a little bit like (00:16:45) flying saucer took off numbers. (00:16:47) >> Mhm. (00:16:48) >> So and you know people who are financial (00:16:50) many of whom doubted us are like wait a (00:16:52) minute the plate dropped because what it (00:16:54) basically it's what what non-financial (00:16:56) people might not appreciate is we're not (00:16:58) just growing we're growing with high (00:17:00) margins with and that's at our scale (00:17:02) basically in my view never been done (00:17:05) before. not in a similarly situated (00:17:06) business. (00:17:07) >> You said it was an anomalous like you (00:17:09) know some sort of historic moment that (00:17:11) that the company is is anomalous. (00:17:13) >> You know in a weird way we undervalue (00:17:15) these or I undervalue the whole numer (00:17:16) numeric side of our business because (00:17:18) it's downstream of value creation. So if (00:17:20) you have if you have a if you if you are (00:17:23) doing anything like what we're doing so (00:17:25) call it 68% growth in the US and again (00:17:27) we're doing it you know our way. We (00:17:29) sales force is anemic. We're not running (00:17:31) around really trying to sell our wares. (00:17:34) We have a conference here. People fight (00:17:35) to get in, which is pretty cool. We have (00:17:37) the best clients in the world, (00:17:39) especially in America. Clearly, we've (00:17:41) tapped into something. I'll tell you (00:17:42) what we've tapped into. There's (00:17:44) essentially a simple thing. LM and and (00:17:47) software empowered LLMs create power per (00:17:50) the expectation of pray optimality (00:17:52) between partner and and and vendor. you (00:17:55) are going to get paid in the future a (00:17:57) percentage of the value you create and (00:17:59) the value you create is going to be you (00:18:01) know it's at some point objectively (00:18:03) measured and it's going to flow into (00:18:05) your financials and vice versa. (00:18:06) >> So you have this unique culture and you (00:18:09) even have called it a cult. Uh it's been (00:18:12) called a cult. I wonder how much you (00:18:14) cultivate that outsider mentality. It (00:18:18) reminds me you're both from Philadelphia (00:18:19) of Jason Kelsey after the first Super (00:18:22) Bowl saying nobody likes us. They don't (00:18:24) care. (00:18:24) >> The thing people don't understand is (00:18:26) there's a massive feature side to being (00:18:28) an outsider or even popular. People (00:18:30) forget people always think of the bug (00:18:32) sides of being unpopular. Like, you (00:18:34) know, you're unpopular. It's not (00:18:35) pleasant. You're not going to like it. I (00:18:37) don't like it actually. But there are (00:18:39) massive feature sides. Like you get the (00:18:41) best people in the world. Like someone (00:18:43) says something ridiculously stupid about (00:18:44) Palunteer. Five people look at it and (00:18:47) they the fifth person who's exactly the (00:18:49) kind of person you want inside your (00:18:51) business or will be the person buying (00:18:53) your product. someday or investing in (00:18:54) you says, "Hey, it can't be as simple as (00:18:57) that. It's a conspiracy. It can't be as (00:18:59) simple as they want to evviscerate my (00:19:01) rights because those rights would be the (00:19:03) same rights that like an agent would (00:19:05) need protected by the agency or (00:19:06) something." Then those people (00:19:07) investigate and investigate and (00:19:09) investigate and they're like, "Wow, this (00:19:11) is a real interesting company." And (00:19:13) they're thinking of the 10th derivative (00:19:15) of this problem, not the simplistic (00:19:16) that somebody online saying has (00:19:19) no idea how our products work. And then (00:19:20) you get the best people like a a really (00:19:22) unexpected uh consequence of is there's (00:19:25) no country in the world where our brand (00:19:27) is as bad as France. We have the best (00:19:30) French employees in the world, (00:19:32) especially in US commercial. And why do (00:19:34) they join? Because every time the (00:19:35) Communist Party says we are doing these (00:19:38) crazy things and they they clearly know (00:19:40) nothing about what they're talking (00:19:40) about, the smartest person in France (00:19:42) says, "Wait a minute. If it was that (00:19:44) simple, any idiot would have done it." (00:19:45) By the time they're done doing the (00:19:46) diagnostic, they're like, "Hey, there's (00:19:48) only one company in the world I want to (00:19:49) work at." And that's how we have the (00:19:50) best French employees in the world. The (00:19:52) best French employees arguably in the (00:19:53) world are at Pali are in America. And (00:19:55) that's very counterintuitive. Working at (00:19:57) a company that's apparently a CIA uh (00:20:00) front, [music] which is like, yeah, (00:20:01) obviously complete (00:20:03) >> Yeah. No, you may not be a Thank you so (00:20:05) much, Alex. (00:20:05) >> Thank you very much. Bye. Bye. (00:20:10) [music]