The Psychology Of Parenting Through Your Own Mental Health Challenges | Ask Lisa X Rich Roll Podcast (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) [Music] (00:00:05) hey everybody I am very excited to (00:00:08) welcome or re Rew welcome I should say (00:00:11) uh my very favorite expert on all things (00:00:13) parenting the teen Whisperer herself the (00:00:17) great Lisa deore Lisa is a graduate of (00:00:20) Yale University she received her PhD in (00:00:23) Clinical Psychology from the University (00:00:25) of Michigan and she is a three-time New (00:00:29) York Times bestselling author her books (00:00:31) include untangled under pressure and the (00:00:34) emotional lives of teenagers and this is (00:00:38) basically the tripartite of parenting (00:00:40) must reads I gotta say uh Lisa is also (00:00:43) the host of ask Lisa which is the (00:00:46) essential podcast for parents seeking (00:00:49) guidance on raising kids particularly (00:00:52) tween and teens which I'm very proud to (00:00:55) announce also happens to be the newest (00:00:58) addition to our new but quickly growing (00:01:01) repertoire of best-in-class podcasts (00:01:05) here at voicing change media and the (00:01:08) purpose of today's show is to reacquaint (00:01:11) you with Lisa or introduce her to you if (00:01:13) you're new to the show we're going to (00:01:15) share an episode of ask Lisa we're going (00:01:18) to append it after our brief (00:01:21) conversation here and that's it I mean (00:01:24) personally I guess what I want to say is (00:01:26) I can't overestimate how helpful Lisa (00:01:29) has been in my my own parenting Journey (00:01:32) you're sort of my decoder ring this (00:01:34) Beacon of light that has helped counsel (00:01:36) me through the roller coaster ride of (00:01:38) raising our children into young adults (00:01:39) and it's delightful to have you here (00:01:41) today thank you Lisa how you doing I am (00:01:43) great and I'm really happy to be with (00:01:45) you and Reena my co-host and I are so so (00:01:48) happy to be we're really proud to have (00:01:51) you yeah this is very exciting and you (00:01:53) do such a great job and we're here to (00:01:56) amplify your important voice well thank (00:01:59) you so thanks for coming out today um I (00:02:01) can't remember how long it's been since (00:02:03) the last time we got together a couple (00:02:05) years at least it's like right around (00:02:06) two years years right around two years A (00:02:08) lot has happened since then uh one very (00:02:11) interesting particular event has (00:02:13) transpired since we last sat down can (00:02:15) you share a little bit about that um I (00:02:17) think you're talking about my (00:02:18) involvement with inside out too I am (00:02:20) indeed talking about that okay yeah so (00:02:23) um so in May of 2020 I got a call from (00:02:26) Pixar saying that Kelsey man the (00:02:28) director and megal one of the writers (00:02:30) wanted to meet with me so it was early (00:02:33) pandemic we hopped on a zoom and they (00:02:36) were holding untangled and Under (00:02:37) Pressure the two books of mine that had (00:02:39) come out at that point and they talked (00:02:41) about what they were up to with this (00:02:43) film they were thinking about and you (00:02:45) know those books are about adolescent (00:02:46) girls and about Stress and Anxiety and (00:02:49) so if you've seen the film you know (00:02:50) right down the middle of what they were (00:02:51) working on and that launched us into a (00:02:54) four-year conversation that um was as (00:02:57) much fun as anything I have done (00:02:58) professionally so I went back back and (00:03:00) forth to Pixar I edited or looked at (00:03:03) drafts of the film and gave feedback um (00:03:06) I worked with an extraordinary colleague (00:03:08) daker Kelner who's at Berkeley um who (00:03:10) was on the first film and um somebody (00:03:12) I've long respected so it was really fun (00:03:14) to be alongside him as another (00:03:16) consultant on this film and um you know (00:03:19) what they generated in the end I think (00:03:21) is an incredible contribution what is it (00:03:24) that's so special about Pixar not that (00:03:27) you've been working with all kinds of (00:03:28) other movie studios but uh we did have (00:03:31) the opportunity to have Ed KML um join (00:03:33) the podcast who was a co-founder of (00:03:35) Pixar and wrote this wonderful book (00:03:37) about team building and creativity and (00:03:39) management um he's no longer there but (00:03:42) obviously the DNA of you know his kind (00:03:45) of uh leadership style I'm sure still (00:03:50) persists in terms of my contact with (00:03:53) them I was blown away by their Devotion (00:03:55) to the Precision of the science they (00:03:58) really wanted to get it right and and um (00:04:01) you know made changes on really what are (00:04:03) very minor points but when I said you (00:04:05) know this is not quite exactly it they (00:04:07) fixed it up um they had me meet with the (00:04:10) entire crew working on the film to do a (00:04:13) presentation around adolescent mental (00:04:14) health and and how we think about (00:04:16) development and so um from Soup To Nuts (00:04:19) in the work on that film they had me and (00:04:21) daker thinking with them about getting (00:04:23) the science and the the kind of you know (00:04:26) academic underpinnings of that correct (00:04:29) and give given the reach they have you (00:04:31) know I mean this was this is the highest (00:04:33) grossing animated film of all time it's (00:04:34) the eighth highest grossing film of all (00:04:37) time I didn't know that I mean I knew it (00:04:39) was popular and successful I didn't (00:04:41) realize at that magnitude it's done (00:04:43) incredibly well and so you have back end (00:04:45) of course oh (00:04:47) yeah uh let's we'll Return To That on (00:04:50) another day boy I wish I did um but what (00:04:53) is important is that it will reach (00:04:56) families who no one can reach in that (00:04:59) kind of way (00:05:00) and and that they got it right and they (00:05:02) made it entertaining and engaging and (00:05:04) yet told a true story about teenagers (00:05:06) and the ways in they become very intense (00:05:08) with their emotions and told a true (00:05:10) story about emotions and that (00:05:12) uncomfortable and unwanted emotions are (00:05:14) actually really important and valuable (00:05:16) you know those are the messages that a (00:05:18) lot of my work is trying to get across (00:05:20) and so to get to partner with um such a (00:05:22) huge megaphone on those messages was a (00:05:24) huge huge benefit there's also a (00:05:27) personal parallel here as well correct (00:05:29) because (00:05:30) the protagonist in the movie happens to (00:05:32) be the same age as your daughter well it (00:05:34) is kind of amazing so when the first (00:05:36) film came out in 2015 my older daughter (00:05:38) was 12 or 11 turning 12 that year and (00:05:42) now my younger daughter is 13 and now my (00:05:45) younger daughter is 13 so um or was 13 (00:05:48) when the film came out and has turned 14 (00:05:49) since so it was the exact same age as (00:05:51) the protagonist and so um very fun I (00:05:54) actually got to take her to Pixar with (00:05:56) me for some of it and get to tour around (00:05:57) in the back so we had a great time did (00:06:00) you get the good job you're a cool mom (00:06:03) uh like certification badge or is it the (00:06:06) age where nothing you can do is cool I (00:06:08) don't think they think anything I do is (00:06:10) cool right I mean I think that they're (00:06:11) sort of like that's great mom but like (00:06:13) what's for dinner you know you know and (00:06:15) that's their job to be focused on of (00:06:17) course what's for dinner yeah um that's (00:06:20) an amazing experience uh I didn't (00:06:22) realize the movie was that big but I and (00:06:25) I haven't seen the second one but I did (00:06:27) see the first one and I just remember (00:06:28) being very impacted by by how what a (00:06:32) what an incredibly creative way into (00:06:35) kind of the mind and the inner (00:06:36) experience of what it's like to have (00:06:39) complicated (00:06:40) emotions it's so smart and they did such (00:06:43) a good job (00:06:45) and there's things in the film that are (00:06:47) so (00:06:48) quick that I was so glad to see included (00:06:52) so if you remember in the first film you (00:06:54) know there are all these mental islands (00:06:56) that are important to Riley's life and (00:06:58) so in the intro to the second film or in (00:07:00) the second film they're surveying the (00:07:02) islands and um somebody says well (00:07:04) where's family Island and family island (00:07:07) has receded way to the back and it's (00:07:09) like gray and sort of sad and it's like (00:07:11) the parents and then Riley standing (00:07:13) apart for them and it's totally crowded (00:07:15) out by friendship Island which looks (00:07:17) like this giant amusement park and it's (00:07:19) this quick little joke and I was like (00:07:21) holy moly when I saw that I thought for (00:07:24) them to put up on the screen that this (00:07:27) is exactly what happens in adolescence (00:07:29) that it's not your kid dumping you you (00:07:32) haven't done anything wrong this is the (00:07:34) natural course of events I thought it (00:07:37) was so amazing you know to watch them do (00:07:39) that so just as healing for the parents (00:07:42) as for the children like everybody can (00:07:44) kind of identify absolutely and you know (00:07:47) it's very clever and very funny and the (00:07:49) kind of thing a lot of adults are going (00:07:50) to want to see as well and it's (00:07:53) interesting we actually have a long (00:07:54) research science on programming for kids (00:07:57) and what makes it effective and what (00:07:59) makes it effective is if adults want to (00:08:00) watch it too mhhm because you know we (00:08:02) did all this research on Sesame Street a (00:08:04) million years ago and what makes it (00:08:07) effective is if after the show the (00:08:10) parent is then later talking about so (00:08:11) what would the count say right yeah and (00:08:13) so same with this film the fact that (00:08:16) it's done in a way that adults are going (00:08:18) to enjoy watching it also means that the (00:08:21) adults get the benefit and the kids get (00:08:22) the benefit of the adults getting the (00:08:24) benefit the kids get the benefit of the (00:08:26) adults not taking it so personally that (00:08:28) their kid wants to hang out with friends (00:08:30) all the time or there's even a very (00:08:32) funny um place where you know suddenly (00:08:35) Riley's emotions become very very (00:08:36) powerful as a function of puberty (00:08:38) setting in and to have that normalized (00:08:40) and put on the big screen is a huge gift (00:08:42) to families are the Hollywood Studios (00:08:45) now calling you all the (00:08:47) time I if they want to talk to me I'm (00:08:49) happy to help and and it really is (00:08:52) because that's a lot of where the (00:08:54) messaging comes across about teenagers (00:08:56) Family Life what to expect you know I I (00:09:00) love getting to do my work in the public (00:09:02) space but I'm aware that there are much (00:09:04) much bigger voices out there and so if I (00:09:07) can help shape how they talk and think (00:09:08) about young people you know I'm ready to (00:09:10) do that all right Hollywood give her a (00:09:13) call um I've been in the parenting uh (00:09:17) game for quite a while at this point our (00:09:19) youngest is 17 our oldest is 29 two boys (00:09:24) two girls I've seen kind of every (00:09:26) permutation you know of this uh the (00:09:29) Peaks The Valleys you know kind of how (00:09:32) to how to handle you know the challenges (00:09:34) that come your way with some level of (00:09:35) Grace and Equanimity and you know it's (00:09:38) still confusing what's the right thing (00:09:40) to say or do like you know should I not (00:09:42) say that should I say this when to be (00:09:44) supportive when to put up the (00:09:45) boundaries as soon as you think you've (00:09:48) kind of developed some level of Mastery (00:09:50) you get a curveball and you're like how (00:09:51) about this how you going to handle this (00:09:52) one and when I think about 2025 being (00:09:55) here in Los Angeles I think about (00:09:57) uncertainty and impermanence it's you (00:10:00) know obviously a very turbulent um (00:10:03) political time that is is driving a lot (00:10:06) of anxiety and uncertainty and layering (00:10:08) on top of that here like the devastating (00:10:11) fires we were evacuated and like you (00:10:13) know it's a lot for young kids I just I (00:10:16) found myself the other day thinking (00:10:17) about you know a young person who's (00:10:19) maybe 14 or 15 who who weathered the (00:10:24) pandemic you know had to endure puberty (00:10:27) at home you know in their room got (00:10:29) through through that things start to (00:10:31) normalize you know but all kinds of like (00:10:34) craziness with social media kind of (00:10:35) enters the picture and that gets (00:10:37) heightened uh and once you feel like (00:10:40) okay well I'm I'm developing adaptive (00:10:42) strategies for this you have the fire (00:10:44) and there's people's homes burning down (00:10:46) and like you know it's just like what is (00:10:48) going on in the mind of that child I (00:10:49) can't help but think they're developing (00:10:51) this sense of a like the world is a very (00:10:54) unsafe place and B like maybe the adults (00:10:57) don't know anything you know what I mean (00:10:58) and like what ises that doing to you (00:11:01) know hundreds of thousands if not (00:11:03) millions of young developing Minds at (00:11:05) this (00:11:06) point well we don't really know but in (00:11:10) some ways we've been here before right I (00:11:12) mean I I wasn't alive when World War II (00:11:14) was happening but like you think about (00:11:16) other times in history where things were (00:11:18) completely upside down and and felt like (00:11:21) they were coming apart and the world (00:11:23) that you knew it didn't feel familiar at (00:11:25) all and and it felt really scary where (00:11:27) everything could head so you know I (00:11:30) think every generation has its own (00:11:32) version of this and we're in this you (00:11:34) know we don't know where this will go we (00:11:35) don't know what it means down the (00:11:37) line my world my training is about the (00:11:41) power of the relationship between adult (00:11:43) and child between parent caregiver and (00:11:45) the child and what I know is that the (00:11:49) best thing we can do under these (00:11:51) conditions is to try to be a steady (00:11:52) presence for our kid we have been around (00:11:55) longer we have seen things be very bad (00:11:57) and correct (00:12:00) um we can offer some perspective that (00:12:03) kids cannot have I think what is hard is (00:12:06) that the adults feel pretty undone right (00:12:07) now too and so being a steady presence (00:12:10) isn't so easy we can feel pretty (00:12:13) overwrought ourselves and and I think (00:12:15) then if you can't be a steady presence (00:12:18) then the next step is to remember that (00:12:20) being emotional is not necessarily the (00:12:22) same thing as being (00:12:24) fragile as tell me more yeah as a (00:12:26) culture we've become very very uneasy (00:12:28) about any emotional discomfort we have (00:12:31) come to equate being mentally healthy (00:12:33) with feeling good and and we've talked (00:12:36) about this before right you know that's (00:12:37) not how we think about this as (00:12:39) psychologists and so one thing that we (00:12:42) can give our kids is the understanding (00:12:45) that you're supposed to be upset in (00:12:48) upsetting conditions it's actually (00:12:49) strange I mean if you went through (00:12:50) everything that you just described and (00:12:52) you were like yeah no we're great it's (00:12:53) cool right that's actually pretty (00:12:55) weird and and so allowing for sadness (00:12:58) allowing for worry allowing for some (00:13:01) anxiety without quickly slipping into (00:13:04) the idea that that means that (00:13:05) everything's awful that we have mental (00:13:07) health concerns or that we're never (00:13:08) going to be okay again I think that's (00:13:10) actually where the adults can be most (00:13:12) useful to kids which is to allow for (00:13:13) distress but to not equate it with the (00:13:15) Mental Health crisis well that kind of (00:13:17) perfectly sets up the episode that we're (00:13:19) going to share which is all about (00:13:21) answering this question like how much of (00:13:23) my mental health challenges should I (00:13:25) actually CH share with my children and (00:13:29) I'm of two minds on this and it you know (00:13:31) it kind of fits into exactly what you (00:13:33) just said like I'm of the generation (00:13:35) that has learned over time that (00:13:38) transparency is better you don't want to (00:13:41) just put on the strong face and pretend (00:13:43) like everything's fine when it isn't (00:13:45) because then you're breeding distrust (00:13:48) and it's better to like let the kids in (00:13:51) and like this is what we're going (00:13:52) through um but at the same (00:13:55) time uh you don't want to kind of (00:13:58) overshare to the point where the child (00:14:00) feels unsafe or like that you you don't (00:14:03) got this like they need to feel like (00:14:05) even yeah okay I recognize you're having (00:14:06) a hard time but I'm going to go to sleep (00:14:08) tonight you know confident that you have (00:14:11) a handle on whatever it is that's going (00:14:13) on is that is that like kind of Fairly (00:14:17) uh accurate description of no I think (00:14:19) you describe the tension really well (00:14:21) right we want to be honest with our kids (00:14:22) but we also don't want them to feel like (00:14:24) there's not a grown-up in the room right (00:14:25) that's that's they want both um you know (00:14:28) and in this episode think through is you (00:14:30) know when does it make sense to talk (00:14:32) with kids about what you yourself have (00:14:33) been through how do you do it in a way (00:14:35) that is going to work (00:14:39) um what is it you know what should drive (00:14:42) it what should it be about you know and (00:14:44) and and when should you do it if you're (00:14:46) going to do it um we talk about some (00:14:50) mental health concerns that can have a (00:14:51) biological underpinning that at some (00:14:53) point kids may want to know about just (00:14:54) by way of being aware you know of some (00:14:58) genetic vulnerability that may be a play (00:15:01) but um we really you know I love talking (00:15:05) and thinking with Reena because she does (00:15:07) such a good job of really sitting in the (00:15:10) role of the parent who's like but what (00:15:11) about this and what about that and and (00:15:13) through that process I think we um tease (00:15:16) apart really really complex questions (00:15:19) and get to Big principles that's (00:15:21) actually my favorite thing about our (00:15:22) conversations is that we are always (00:15:24) asking a question from a listener but in (00:15:27) answering or we're always answering a (00:15:29) question from a listener but in (00:15:30) answering that question we always try to (00:15:33) like pull back the lens a little bit and (00:15:34) think like what's the big parenting (00:15:36) principle at play here and she sort of (00:15:39) inhabits the perspective of the parent (00:15:42) who's going to be asking the typical (00:15:43) questions to make sure that their the (00:15:46) audience is getting the takeaways that (00:15:47) they need yeah yeah she's doesn't she's (00:15:49) you know journalist by training and just (00:15:51) does an incredible job of but what about (00:15:54) this and what about that and pushes my (00:15:56) thinking and and I hopefully above all (00:15:59) just puts it all on you know into (00:16:01) practical every day in your kitchen (00:16:02) terms as opposed to you know here's (00:16:05) theoretically how we think about these (00:16:06) things that's not really what people (00:16:08) need people need like what do I say to (00:16:10) my kid and and and we work really hard (00:16:12) to get to (00:16:13) that where do uh our parenting (00:16:17) intuitions lead us astray like what are (00:16:20) common examples of situations you've (00:16:23) seen where where we feel like the right (00:16:26) thing to do is x when actually it's y I (00:16:29) guess I'm just imagining you know in the (00:16:32) context of sharing your mental health (00:16:33) stuff it's like oh we should be (00:16:35) transparent and like not knowing where (00:16:36) the boundary of of that is or what are (00:16:39) some kind of principles that you could (00:16:41) you know kind of quickly share before we (00:16:43) turn to the episode itself well so one (00:16:46) thing that I think is gerain to this (00:16:48) topic but stretches across others is you (00:16:50) know there's so many important (00:16:52) conversations we want to have with our (00:16:53) kids before they leave home you know and (00:16:55) and we we they weigh on us and they feel (00:16:57) big and important and sometimes they're (00:16:59) our own mental health concerns but (00:17:00) sometimes they're just about other (00:17:01) things in the world that we want to talk (00:17:03) about and there are moments in parenting (00:17:06) where we're like okay I'm ready to have (00:17:07) the conversation and we find our (00:17:09) teenager and we're like we need to talk (00:17:10) about you know and then fill in the (00:17:12) blank and what we forget is that kid did (00:17:14) not see a coming has 400 other things (00:17:17) going on doesn't know why you are (00:17:19) bringing this up now almost always (00:17:21) assumes like what did I do that you have (00:17:25) you know felt compelled to have this (00:17:26) conversation and so what I would say (00:17:28) just on a very easy X to Y for all (00:17:31) parents everywhere is if you have (00:17:33) something big and heavy that the time (00:17:35) has come that you feel you need to talk (00:17:36) about it give your kids some warning and (00:17:40) see if um if they're open to it at that (00:17:43) time or make a plan to talk about it but (00:17:47) um I think the uh not very sophisticated (00:17:49) but I think kind of direct way I would (00:17:51) say this is like no sneak attacks on (00:17:53) teenagers like it never goes well if you (00:17:56) have something big and heavy say to them (00:17:58) you know you're headed off to college (00:18:00) and we've never really talked about you (00:18:01) know x sex drugs drinking whatever (00:18:04) there's some things I want you to know (00:18:06) when's a good time for us to have this (00:18:07) conversation yeah yeah yeah you'll get (00:18:09) much further that way I I find that even (00:18:12) when I do that it's still challenging (00:18:15) and like what I'm actually trying to (00:18:18) communicate by Dent of that type of (00:18:20) conversation is kind of more effectively (00:18:24) transmitted when I'm in a casual (00:18:26) environment and I'm like we're in a car (00:18:28) in a long drive or we're on a trip and (00:18:30) I'm you know we're on a plane or like (00:18:32) hey tell me you know when I'm curious (00:18:34) about them and then it moves into a (00:18:37) place where it feels natural to kind of (00:18:39) share well you know this thing happened (00:18:41) and then just it kind of percolates up (00:18:43) out of something organic as opposed to (00:18:45) like you come in with an agenda and (00:18:47) here's what's going to happen and here's (00:18:48) how we're gonna here's how you're going (00:18:49) to come out on the other side of that um (00:18:52) I agree with everything you said I think (00:18:54) it's true I think um rolling up on a (00:18:57) teenager with an agenda pre-planned (00:18:59) rarely has the outcome we're hoping for (00:19:02) the other thing I will say and I've seen (00:19:04) this (00:19:05) consistently kids open the door to these (00:19:08) conversations kids will say you know (00:19:10) there's ninth graders using weed gummies (00:19:12) at school right or they will say oh you (00:19:14) know so and so they're like having sex (00:19:16) with a lot of different partners right (00:19:18) they they (00:19:19) will throw the door wide open to (00:19:21) conversations that we mean to be having (00:19:24) and in my experience that's actually (00:19:25) when you're most likely to get some (00:19:27) ground in that conversation to say like (00:19:29) well what do you know and what do you (00:19:30) think and what are you hearing and what (00:19:32) do you make of that right asking them (00:19:33) their thoughts and then you'll learn a (00:19:36) lot based on their response when you ask (00:19:38) questions about what do you think about (00:19:40) that and then you may be able to get (00:19:42) your two cents in um but I will say in (00:19:46) all of parenting I don't ever think you (00:19:48) have very long to say very much I think (00:19:52) these are conversations that we dip in (00:19:53) and out of I think kids can only (00:19:55) tolerate so much at a given time I think (00:19:57) car rides plane rides walks when they (00:20:00) don't have to look at us are invaluable (00:20:02) but it's um there's no such thing in my (00:20:05) world as the talk mhm it's it's an (00:20:07) ongoing conversation because kids change (00:20:09) and actually how you think about it (00:20:11) yourself as a parent changes the slow (00:20:14) Dre as opposed to the you know fire hose (00:20:17) the Monumental talk where we're GNA (00:20:18) solve all of these problems I think (00:20:20) that's really that's really good advice (00:20:23) and when the child kind of lobs it's (00:20:25) sort of like lobbing a grenade and it (00:20:26) it's a litmus test like what are you (00:20:28) going to do are you shame me and say (00:20:30) well you better not do that you know (00:20:31) like a more kind of like typical (00:20:33) response can you resist that and instead (00:20:37) like approach it with (00:20:39) curiosity it's really hard sometimes (00:20:42) right I mean if kids are like there's (00:20:43) weed gummies going around school I mean (00:20:45) a lot of adults would be like whoa don't (00:20:47) let me catch you but even with that you (00:20:50) can come back and say you know I had a (00:20:52) really strong (00:20:53) reaction tell me more about you know why (00:20:56) why that came up you know that I I think (00:20:57) it's okay um for us to apologize and (00:21:01) return to it um because I think (00:21:03) sometimes when kids are putting those (00:21:05) things on the table they are seeing like (00:21:07) if I had an issue how would you react so (00:21:09) let me start by testing the waters with (00:21:12) you know that kid over there you get a (00:21:14) crazy reaction okay it's not safe for me (00:21:16) to share that thing never bringing this (00:21:18) up again the door is shut and like I'll (00:21:20) go to somebody else yeah yeah and that's (00:21:23) the last thing you want it is I will (00:21:25) tell you in those clutch moments there (00:21:27) is a phrase that parents can use while (00:21:30) they're getting their heart rate down (00:21:32) which is just to say to the kid what do (00:21:35) you think about that like you can't go (00:21:37) wrong with that phrase and it will help (00:21:39) you collect yourself and help you know (00:21:41) where the conversation needs to go yeah (00:21:43) neutrality becomes like a superpower yes (00:21:46) right um I'm thinking of a scenario in (00:21:51) which uh you know there's a there's a a (00:21:55) conflict between kind of what you say (00:21:57) and what you do because if if you're (00:21:58) kind of saying like well you better not (00:22:00) and this is that and this is bad and (00:22:02) like you know no daughter of mine no you (00:22:04) know whatever uh but then later you come (00:22:07) and say you know you can talk to me (00:22:08) about anything like I'm available to you (00:22:10) like you know you're speaking out of (00:22:12) both sides of your mouth at that point (00:22:13) right it's true and and you know one of (00:22:16) my favorite things in the whole world is (00:22:18) to get with a bunch of teenagers and ask (00:22:20) them questions about things that I've (00:22:21) been wondering about and so one time I (00:22:24) got with them a bunch of teenagers and I (00:22:26) was like you know that thing where (00:22:29) you're clearly upset and your folks can (00:22:31) tell you're upset and they're asking (00:22:32) what's wrong and you won't tell them and (00:22:35) they're all like yeah yeah yeah I'm like (00:22:36) what's the deal and they were like well (00:22:38) there's one of four reasons right I mean (00:22:40) they have so much knowledge of us and (00:22:42) they said first of all we know what (00:22:43) you're GNA say you know and they do know (00:22:46) us they know us inside and out right so (00:22:48) they were like you know maybe it's that (00:22:51) I um messed up a test that you asked if (00:22:53) I'd studied enough for and I reassured (00:22:54) you I had and apparently I hadn't (00:22:56) because I got my test back and so if I (00:22:58) tell you that's what I'm upset about I (00:22:59) know what you're going to say and I (00:23:00) don't want to hear it right so we think (00:23:03) we're so context free they have us dead (00:23:05) to rights you know um another kid said (00:23:08) you're going to blab you're going to (00:23:09) blab I'm going to tell you and it (00:23:11) doesn't feel like a big deal to you so (00:23:12) you'll tell the neighbor but it feels (00:23:14) like a state secret to me so I don't (00:23:15) want to do it another kid said this was (00:23:18) so funny they were like well it's (00:23:19) complicated it's (00:23:21) complicated this girl said you know (00:23:23) maybe it's like this maybe the thing I'm (00:23:24) having a problem with is that I got into (00:23:26) a fight with Susie today Susie and I (00:23:28) been going hot and cold for 10 years and (00:23:30) I know my family can't stand Susie (00:23:32) Susie's having a party in two weeks and (00:23:34) I really want to go so if I tell them (00:23:36) today what the issue is in two weeks (00:23:38) we're going to have a problem so again (00:23:40) they know us so well and then the last (00:23:43) one and I think this is what parents and (00:23:45) caregivers should always assume if they (00:23:47) can't get their kid to tell them what (00:23:48) the story (00:23:49) is this kid said to me you know by the (00:23:52) time I get home I'm like 90% of the way (00:23:55) past it and rehashing the whole thing (00:23:56) for my folks is not going to help me (00:23:58) feel better yeah yeah so I mean there's (00:24:00) always a reason for their behavior what (00:24:02) they do make sense and I think what I (00:24:05) love so much about teenagers is that if (00:24:08) you ask them a straight question if (00:24:09) you're asking asking they will tell you (00:24:12) exactly what is behind behavior that (00:24:15) seems confusing on the surface the other (00:24:17) thing that I found very helpful is (00:24:20) always asking myself the question like (00:24:23) am I trying to help them feel better or (00:24:26) solve their problem or am I trying to (00:24:28) resolve my own uncomfortable emotions (00:24:30) about what's happening like I think (00:24:32) there's a lot of transference in there (00:24:34) um and so much of where parents (00:24:37) instincts drive them in the wrong (00:24:39) direction is when they're really trying (00:24:40) to solve their own internal emotional (00:24:43) like turmoil over something rather than (00:24:45) the child's absolutely right and and you (00:24:48) know luckily kids are pretty durable we (00:24:49) can get it wrong and and it doesn't mean (00:24:53) that they're going to come to harm but (00:24:54) that is something Reena and I think (00:24:56) through in this episode right if if it's (00:24:57) if you feel compelled to talk with your (00:24:59) kid about your sufferings in the past (00:25:01) like why you know what's behind it who's (00:25:03) it serving what's it for and you want to (00:25:05) be really clear in your mind because (00:25:07) it's it's not your kids's job to help (00:25:09) you work this out right you're not if (00:25:11) you're just going to vomit all your (00:25:13) nonsense onto them and suddenly it's (00:25:14) their responsibility to process all of (00:25:16) that that's an act of violence on your (00:25:18) kid versus like hey you know I have a (00:25:21) history of with alcoholism and I've been (00:25:23) sober for a long time and like let me (00:25:26) tell you about like how all of this (00:25:28) happened and like kind of how I manage (00:25:30) it now like that can be helpful (00:25:32) especially you know with a you know a (00:25:34) genetic predisposition or what what have (00:25:36) you to do it like you know from just a (00:25:39) place of calm Detachment you know as as (00:25:42) a means of like helping them make sense (00:25:45) of how they're going to navigate those (00:25:46) opportunities when they arise about (00:25:48) whether they're going to pick up or (00:25:49) indulge or not yeah yeah I mean we have (00:25:52) hard earned wisdom we want to spare our (00:25:55) kids pain there are lessons we've (00:25:57) learned we'd rather they don't have to (00:25:59) learn them the hard (00:26:00) way and teenagers don't like to be told (00:26:05) right so we have to sort of sit in that (00:26:06) tension of how do we give good guidance (00:26:08) give good advice share what we need to (00:26:11) in a way that makes them receptive and (00:26:13) not allow our emotions to be regulated (00:26:16) by theirs like this idea like it's our (00:26:19) job to love them it's not their job to (00:26:20) love us it's true it's (00:26:23) true and there's so much gratification (00:26:26) in parenting and so much pleasure but (00:26:29) it's really um we're here to care for (00:26:33) them and and caring for ourselves well (00:26:36) is part of how we do that but it's (00:26:38) really about creating an environment for (00:26:41) kids where they feel safe where there is (00:26:43) warmth where there is structure where (00:26:45) there's a grownup in the (00:26:46) room and um and just you know seeing (00:26:50) what unfolds from there well I think (00:26:52) that's a good place to kind of end it (00:26:54) for today and set up the podcast which I (00:26:57) believe is episode 190 (00:26:59) three of the show uh should I share my (00:27:03) mental health struggles with my teen um (00:27:06) it is the ask Lisa podcast you can find (00:27:09) it on all the podcast platforms our (00:27:12) newest uh and most exciting new addition (00:27:15) to the voicing change uh Network and (00:27:17) we're just we're delighted to have you (00:27:18) Lisa so thank you for coming and sharing (00:27:21) with me today and everybody should go (00:27:22) and listen And subscribe and do all the (00:27:25) stuff yeah Rich thrilled to be (00:27:27) partnering with you and we're very (00:27:29) honored and touched so exciting times (00:27:32) ahead indeed and you'll come back and (00:27:34) we'll do a full blond one at some point (00:27:36) cool cheers (00:27:38) peace (00:27:40) enjoy do you think a lot of families are (00:27:42) dealing with this I think more families (00:27:44) are dealing with this than not having (00:27:46) things that families are trying to (00:27:47) figure out how and when to bring up with (00:27:49) their teenager is more the rule than the (00:27:55) exception episode 193 should I talk with (00:27:59) my teens about my own mental health (00:28:01) challenges so how you doing (00:28:05) uh how about (00:28:07) you you know I feel like I'm on this (00:28:09) hamster wheel I never get off but I keep (00:28:11) telling myself oh it's just five more (00:28:13) minutes and you're going to get a nice (00:28:14) long break and that break never comes no (00:28:17) it really the to-do list never ends (00:28:19) Reena and and I I don't know how I have (00:28:23) not figured this out yet I keep thinking (00:28:26) that somewhere somewhere there is an end (00:28:28) to the to-do list and I really am trying (00:28:30) to be like I step in and out of it I'm (00:28:32) just not in it all the time but I kind (00:28:34) of feel like I'm in it all the time (00:28:35) anyway I wonder what studies say about (00:28:38) this like we always think that we're g (00:28:39) to be done and we're not done well (00:28:42) actually it's funny you should mention (00:28:43) that because there actually is one of my (00:28:45) favorite research studies shows of (00:28:46) course you have a study on this I have a (00:28:48) favorite of course a favorite like I (00:28:49) like a live for these we have a study (00:28:51) that shows that like if you ask people (00:28:53) about how busy they are now and how busy (00:28:55) they'll be in the future they reliably (00:28:57) say oh I'm very very busy now but I (00:28:58) won't be busy in six months they think (00:29:01) somehow out there is is is Leisure um we (00:29:05) have to believe that or else we're going (00:29:06) to self-combust well it's true but this (00:29:09) is also How We Do ourselves in because (00:29:10) we agree to things in the future because (00:29:13) we think well I'm busy now but I won't (00:29:15) be busy then so yes let's put it on the (00:29:16) calendar and that's how we end up with (00:29:18) these over full calendars is this um (00:29:20) distorted belief that the future is (00:29:22) somehow full of leisure and extra time (00:29:24) oh we've got to learn to say no that's a (00:29:26) hard thing it's a very hard thing (00:29:29) I love this letter that came into our (00:29:30) inbox uh about a parent who's dealing (00:29:33) with their own history of mental health (00:29:35) challenges I want to get right to it (00:29:36) dear Dr Lisa I'm a mom of three (00:29:38) teenagers as most parents with children (00:29:40) of this age my husband and I are having (00:29:43) lots of conversations about mental (00:29:44) health I come from a family with mental (00:29:46) health issues including alcoholism (00:29:48) depression anxiety and eating disorders (00:29:51) I myself had anorexia during college (00:29:53) I've not shared this part of my story (00:29:55) with my children and I think it is (00:29:57) important that I do so so they (00:29:59) understand their family history and how (00:30:01) important it is for them to build (00:30:02) healthy coping skills I'm not sure how (00:30:05) to start this conversation and how much (00:30:07) to share with them at this point in (00:30:08) their adolescence what do you think is (00:30:10) the best way to talk to my children (00:30:12) about my past thank you do you think a (00:30:16) lot of families are dealing with (00:30:17) this I think more families are dealing (00:30:20) with this than not I would say that it's (00:30:22) probably the rule not the exception that (00:30:24) families have things in their past (00:30:26) either the parents of their own past or (00:30:28) even family history that they are trying (00:30:31) to figure out how and when to bring up (00:30:33) with their kids I think about in my (00:30:35) clinical practice how not rare it has (00:30:39) been that I will sit with families who (00:30:42) maybe I'm caring for their teenager and (00:30:44) they will say oh by the way also her (00:30:47) grandfather who died you know before she (00:30:49) was born actually died by Suicide we've (00:30:51) never mentioned it our kid is kind of (00:30:53) depressed should we tell her do we bring (00:30:56) this up do we not having things that (00:30:58) amilies are trying to figure out how and (00:30:59) when to bring up with their teenager is (00:31:01) more the rule than the exception but I (00:31:04) worry if I bring it up then they're (00:31:06) going to think okay I'm going to have (00:31:08) Suicidal Thoughts I'm going to be this (00:31:10) person I'm GNA so as a parent I don't (00:31:12) want to mention it or bring it up I (00:31:15) think that's exactly right I mean we all (00:31:17) feel so um loving and worried about our (00:31:21) kids that you don't want to do anything (00:31:23) that's going to rock the boat and so (00:31:25) this letter writer and I think lots of (00:31:27) parents sit in this tension of it feels (00:31:29) like this is important information for (00:31:31) my kid to have but what's going to be (00:31:33) the impact of sharing this information (00:31:35) and is it going to have unintended (00:31:37) consequences I want to pick up where she (00:31:39) talks about I think what really stood (00:31:40) out of the issue she talked about was (00:31:42) the eating disorder right you you this (00:31:44) is your expertise I mean what do you (00:31:46) think the mom should do in regard to (00:31:48) knowing that she had a history of an (00:31:50) eating disorder so I think this helps us (00:31:52) kind of start to tease apart some (00:31:54) principles that can be useful as (00:31:57) families are thinking about if when (00:31:58) they're going to say something to their (00:32:01) teenager and I would say as a generic (00:32:03) rule you should have this whatever the (00:32:06) issue is it's probably best if it's (00:32:09) pretty well metabolized on your end one (00:32:11) thing that would be really really (00:32:13) helpful in these conversations is if any (00:32:15) parent who is suffering with something (00:32:17) or has suffered with something so this (00:32:19) parent with a needing disorder really (00:32:21) feels like it's behind them you know (00:32:23) really feels like it's something that (00:32:25) they um have worked their way through (00:32:27) they understand in retrospect what (00:32:30) occurred they can offer insight into it (00:32:34) I I would want that would be the ideal (00:32:36) condition and if they're not Lisa well (00:32:38) exactly I mean of course we have parents (00:32:40) you know who of course suffer while (00:32:41) parenting so let's come back to that (00:32:43) because I think that's a really (00:32:44) important question like what if a parent (00:32:46) is actually working their way through (00:32:47) depression like how do we talk with kids (00:32:49) about it but for something that's in the (00:32:51) past minimally I would want it to be um (00:32:54) something that the parent feels like (00:32:55) they've got their hands around and and (00:32:57) it doesn't feel uncontrolled to them (00:32:59) when it comes up I think another (00:33:01) principle that we really want to bring (00:33:04) to bear (00:33:05) here is how we bring up delicate (00:33:08) conversations about anything with (00:33:10) teenagers even if you have no drug (00:33:12) history in your family you're going to (00:33:14) need to have a conversation with your (00:33:15) teenager about feny right I mean so like (00:33:17) this is a constant challenge in (00:33:19) Parenting teenagers is that we have (00:33:21) important and delicate things we need to (00:33:23) say and it's not always easy to get (00:33:26) those across to teenagers one way way to (00:33:28) think about this is to remember (00:33:30) teenagers have a lot going on their (00:33:32) minds are very busy they're thinking (00:33:34) about 40 different things um we may be (00:33:37) aware of two of them but there's 38 more (00:33:40) happening and so when we just suddenly (00:33:43) bring up something big and important out (00:33:46) of the blue it tends not to go that well (00:33:50) because they didn't see it coming they (00:33:51) weren't really ready they don't know why (00:33:53) we're talking about this so I think that (00:33:56) part of what we want to look for here (00:33:57) are (00:33:59) openings so I think you know especially (00:34:02) with teenagers you're going to get these (00:34:04) openings they're going to talk about the (00:34:05) classmate who is losing weight rapidly (00:34:08) they're going to talk about the (00:34:10) classmate who's getting into way too (00:34:12) much booze right so your chances of (00:34:15) having a successful conversation go way (00:34:17) up if you're actually stepping into a (00:34:20) conversational line the teenager has (00:34:22) already started as opposed to being like (00:34:25) hey I've got a big thing sit down let's (00:34:27) have this conference ation so I would (00:34:29) wait I I think I would wait until and (00:34:32) it's very high guarantee at some point (00:34:35) the teenager is going to bring up (00:34:37) something in the vein of what the parent (00:34:38) wants to talk about and then I think the (00:34:41) parent can say something like (00:34:44) actually I I have more experience with (00:34:46) eating disorders than I wish I did I (00:34:48) actually had one in college do you want (00:34:49) to hear a little bit more I think giving (00:34:52) teenagers um a little control about how (00:34:54) much they hear or how much they hear all (00:34:57) at once is probably a third thing I (00:34:59) would strongly recommend but do you (00:35:01) think it could be a little bit jarring (00:35:02) if the the this comes up casually in (00:35:05) conversation like whoa whoa whoa what (00:35:07) you had an eating disorder and there (00:35:09) were maybe no signs or maybe suffering (00:35:12) from alcoholism maybe there are no (00:35:14) signs I think it can be very jarring I (00:35:17) think I mean there are parents who are (00:35:19) sober and their kids you know are you (00:35:22) know may be very aware of it because the (00:35:23) parent doesn't drink so it may have come (00:35:25) up more naturally than something like an (00:35:27) eating disorder (00:35:29) but I do think Reena there's value when (00:35:31) you have to share some pretty heavy (00:35:33) stuff about your own (00:35:35) history I think that part of how we (00:35:37) signal to teenagers that we have it in (00:35:39) hand is to say I have more experience (00:35:42) with this than I wish I did how much do (00:35:44) you want to hear it there are things I (00:35:46) want to tell you but you let me know how (00:35:48) much you want to hear right now I think (00:35:50) that that makes it far more (00:35:54) bearable but I'll tell you Reena like (00:35:56) you are right teenagers want to us to be (00:35:58) boring kids need us to be boring like I (00:36:02) think that you know in many ways it's (00:36:05) it's ideal for them if we can give them (00:36:07) a pretty like you know not a lot going (00:36:10) on over here just available to support (00:36:12) you as needed and so when we bring up (00:36:15) truths about the fact that we're whole (00:36:17) and real people with long complicated (00:36:19) history sometimes we have to account for (00:36:21) the fact that that that's not exactly (00:36:23) what they are always um counting on or (00:36:26) wanting Lisa you were saying a little (00:36:27) bit about this will come up organically (00:36:30) in a way that you can enter the (00:36:33) conversation and discuss it but what (00:36:35) about I want to go back to eating (00:36:37) disorders I don't know if that just (00:36:38) stood out to me in the letter we talk (00:36:39) about it a lot you have flagged so many (00:36:42) times that this is not just a white girl (00:36:44) problem that it affects men um it (00:36:46) affects boys and girls from all (00:36:47) different races so talk to me about what (00:36:50) about that it does it affects people of (00:36:53) all Races ethnicities sizes right I mean (00:36:56) Eating Disorders are very equal (00:36:58) opportunity and they're very dangerous (00:37:00) and and so you know we want to be really (00:37:02) thoughtful about how we talk about them (00:37:04) so for sure if a teenager brings it up (00:37:08) right I think that that creates an (00:37:10) opening to start to have a (00:37:12) conversation it also may be that a (00:37:14) teenager brings it up right using finger (00:37:16) quotes by going on a diet right that you (00:37:19) know you can imagine can you imagine (00:37:21) right as a parent of who has suffered (00:37:23) with an eating disorder knows how (00:37:24) harrowing they are how scary it would be (00:37:28) to see your kid suddenly get weirdly (00:37:31) serious about Fitness or weirdly (00:37:33) restrictive in what they eat and I think (00:37:36) here again is an opening an opportunity (00:37:39) and I think if the parent themselves (00:37:41) suffered from an eating disorder there (00:37:44) also may be a genetic loading that the (00:37:46) kid needs to know about well talk to you (00:37:48) about that because I was wondering if (00:37:50) you have gone through these mental (00:37:52) health issues are your children higher (00:37:55) probability that they will be (00:37:56) susceptible or will definitely have (00:37:58) these there's no definite will you will (00:38:01) have like I we know that for sure (00:38:02) there's never a one toone correspondence (00:38:05) but is there a vulnerability and the (00:38:07) answer is like yeah we do know that (00:38:09) there's a genetic component to eating (00:38:11) disorders this doesn't mean your kid's (00:38:13) going to have an eating disorder but it (00:38:14) does mean that you probably need to flag (00:38:16) to them that they need to be careful (00:38:18) that they may be be more vulnerable and (00:38:20) then this is the same as true for (00:38:22) alcoholism we know that this can run in (00:38:25) families not just from what we would (00:38:26) call environmental effect of kids seeing (00:38:28) adults drinking more that there can be a (00:38:30) biological (00:38:32) vulnerability and so if there's a family (00:38:34) history of alcoholism we need to let I (00:38:37) think we need to let kids know and I (00:38:40) think that it can be very helpful to (00:38:42) actually drill down on exactly what it (00:38:44) is maybe transm you know getting (00:38:46) transmitted genetically and this is (00:38:48) stuff we pretty much know but like you (00:38:50) know we're always learning so for eating (00:38:53) disorders some of what we know can get (00:38:55) shared or can be a biological (00:38:57) vulnerability is a very high tolerance (00:38:59) for Hunger not everybody can tolerate (00:39:02) hunger I cannot tolerate hunger as soon (00:39:03) as I'm hungry I've got to eat yeah there (00:39:06) are people though who can just ignore (00:39:09) their hunger and we think this may have (00:39:11) a genetic loading and we know that it (00:39:14) can make it easier to have an eating (00:39:17) disorder if you can just not mind being (00:39:20) hungry for (00:39:22) alcoholism the way we think about where (00:39:24) the genetic loading comes through (00:39:26) there's a few different features so (00:39:28) fundamentally you know alcohol is a (00:39:29) biological agent that acts on our (00:39:31) biologies and everybody's biology (00:39:34) interacts differently with biological (00:39:35) agents some people don't like Advil some (00:39:38) people you know like it's just different (00:39:39) for different bodies so for alcoholism (00:39:41) we think there's a few mechanisms in (00:39:43) play one is how pleasurable you find (00:39:47) alcohol to be right some people don't (00:39:50) really like the feeling of being buzzed (00:39:53) other people love the feeling of being (00:39:56) buzzed and this is can be true for other (00:39:57) substances as well we think that is (00:40:00) genetically conferred in part another (00:40:02) thing is how much it takes you to feel (00:40:05) an effect some people are born with just (00:40:08) a very high to like they can drink a lot (00:40:10) and it just (00:40:12) doesn't (00:40:13) really you know do have much impact they (00:40:16) are at higher risk for alcoholism and (00:40:19) substance concerns and then the last is (00:40:23) how bad the after effects are some (00:40:26) people most people right if they get (00:40:28) really drunk they're going to feel (00:40:29) really terrible the next day there are (00:40:33) people who have a biology where they (00:40:35) actually shake it off real fast and it (00:40:38) doesn't have that much of a negative (00:40:40) consequence for them that is also (00:40:42) biologically based and that makes us (00:40:43) worried so telling kids like it's not (00:40:47) just like random genetic like just like (00:40:49) having them know what the risk really (00:40:52) looks like is important I still have to (00:40:55) tell you if I have met mental health (00:40:58) issues as a parent I don't feel (00:41:00) comfortable discussing them it makes me (00:41:03) anxious and I I just don't want to have (00:41:05) and I know we've got to have these (00:41:06) uncomfortable conversations but what's (00:41:08) your advice when you have that talk even (00:41:10) if you're entering it in a natural (00:41:12) organic way what should I keep in mind (00:41:14) if I have mental health issues and I'm (00:41:16) talking to my kids about this well it's (00:41:18) funny Rea I'm actually gonna think about (00:41:20) something that Tova said last week in (00:41:22) our conversation about like what's this (00:41:24) about for me to have a client who was (00:41:26) talking to us about building resilience (00:41:28) yeah you know that question of like I (00:41:31) feel like I need to talk with my kid (00:41:32) about my history of and then fill in the (00:41:34) blank and yet I am coming up against a (00:41:37) lot of internal resistance I think that (00:41:39) is such a good signal to actually unpack (00:41:42) that resistance a little bit what's my (00:41:44) worry what's my worry in telling my kid (00:41:47) because say you smoked a ton of weed in (00:41:50) high school say you smoked a ton of weed (00:41:51) to high school that you totally regret (00:41:53) it you know you wish you hadn't and you (00:41:56) feel like okay I've got this life lesson (00:41:58) I want to keep my kid from making the (00:41:59) same mistakes I want to say something to (00:42:01) them but also I don't want to say (00:42:03) anything to them yeah so interrogating (00:42:05) the like what's the worry and I'll I've (00:42:08) got shame I've got Shame about it I (00:42:10) don't want them to know so maybe they'll (00:42:12) think it's okay because I did it um (00:42:14) maybe they have an impression of me that (00:42:16) I think will (00:42:17) change those are wonderful reasons I (00:42:20) think you just rattled off a lot of the (00:42:22) top concerns right which is I don't want (00:42:25) them to think less of me I don't want to (00:42:26) take it as perion I don't want them to (00:42:29) take it as permission you know I don't (00:42:30) what was the last one you said it was so (00:42:32) right on um I don't want them (00:42:36) to um the shame I think the shame of it (00:42:39) right okay I feel ashamed about about (00:42:41) this yeah I think that one of the (00:42:44) beautiful things about (00:42:46) teenagers is that you can have meta (00:42:49) conversations you can have conversations (00:42:51) about the conversation you're about to (00:42:53) have so say a parent comes to the place (00:42:56) where they are ready to talk with their (00:42:58) teenager about having smoked a lot of (00:42:59) pot in high school and yet they are (00:43:02) anxious that their kid is going to take (00:43:04) this as permission for the kid to do as (00:43:07) they please around cannabis past age 14 (00:43:11) you can say to most teenagers listen I (00:43:14) want to talk with you about my own pot (00:43:17) smoking in high school and what I (00:43:18) learned and I want to try to spare you (00:43:20) lessons that I learned the hard way but (00:43:23) let me just say at the outset this is (00:43:24) not me giving you permission to do it so (00:43:26) just tell them tell (00:43:28) I'm sharing this CU I want you to know (00:43:29) I'm sparing you I love that language you (00:43:31) said I'm sparing you y yeah I want to (00:43:34) spare you you know I learned the hard (00:43:35) way I'd rather you not have to learn (00:43:36) this lesson you can do the same say (00:43:38) there's something I feel like I need to (00:43:40) share with you about um my own struggle (00:43:42) with an eating disorder in high school (00:43:44) or college but I got to tell you I feel (00:43:46) kind of ashamed like there's a part of (00:43:48) me that still feels Shame about it and I (00:43:49) just want to play my cards face up (00:43:51) teenagers are generous and interested (00:43:55) and very tender around their adults (00:43:58) vulnerabilities like I've learned that (00:43:59) like they know that well they know and (00:44:02) they don't know that we're whole unreal (00:44:04) people with histories um they don't like (00:44:06) to think about it all the time but if we (00:44:08) have it under good enough control and (00:44:10) can just talk about it in a pretty (00:44:13) straightforward way in my experience (00:44:15) teenagers can take that in stride and (00:44:18) leave with whatever message it was that (00:44:20) you were hoping that they would take (00:44:21) from it when you look at um healthy (00:44:25) coping Lisa I I'm just curious because I (00:44:28) want to also talk about what makes for (00:44:31) good healthy coping well it's (00:44:33) interesting when you were reading that (00:44:34) letter (00:44:35) Reena the writer said something about (00:44:38) like how do I help them move towards (00:44:40) healthy coping and as soon as she those (00:44:43) words came out I was like oh this lady (00:44:44) has this totally under control because (00:44:47) what she has fully metabolized is that (00:44:50) her eating disorder whatever else it was (00:44:52) about was about unhealthy coping right (00:44:54) that's what all of these behaviors that (00:44:57) we worry about fundamentally at bottom (00:45:00) having common abusing substances is (00:45:02) unhealthy coping Eating Disorders are (00:45:04) unhealthy coping like you're trying to (00:45:05) get your hands around something you've (00:45:07) landed on an unproductive (00:45:09) self-destructive (00:45:10) strategy so I think that when we need to (00:45:15) talk with teenagers about past events (00:45:18) past history Family Life the all-time (00:45:20) opening that's going to come is somehow (00:45:22) around coping right kids have to cope (00:45:25) they have their ups and downs they have (00:45:26) good days and bad days and so we're (00:45:29) watching their coping and we're (00:45:30) reflecting on their coping and so when (00:45:32) your kids's like oh my gosh I had the (00:45:34) worst day ever I'm going to go for a run (00:45:36) you know without being too corny about (00:45:37) it you can be like you know what that is (00:45:38) such beautiful coping that is exactly (00:45:40) how we handle hard things it sounds so (00:45:42) corny but you're you're getting them to (00:45:44) be aware that what they are doing is (00:45:46) taking the pressure off like you know (00:45:48) going to go play for play basketball I'm (00:45:50) going to go listen to really loud music (00:45:52) in my room exactly and and so I think (00:45:54) you know every relationship between (00:45:56) parent and child is its own Universe in (00:45:57) its own unique thing and you can't (00:45:59) really tell people how to do it but I (00:46:02) think that the fundamental is if a (00:46:04) parent knows they're in a good place (00:46:05) with their kid to say you know what that (00:46:07) is such healthy coping and it's not the (00:46:08) kind of coping I was using when I was in (00:46:10) high school and I'm so proud and happy (00:46:13) as your parent that you've already found (00:46:15) your way to such healthy strategies or (00:46:17) the flip say the kid is doing (00:46:19) destructive things say look you get to (00:46:20) be upset you get to have hard things (00:46:22) unhealthy coping is not an option the (00:46:25) strategy you're using is unhealthy I (00:46:27) have a lot of sympathy for this I chose (00:46:29) on healthy strategies when I was in high (00:46:30) school but I love you too much I'm not (00:46:33) letting you do it this way just tell me (00:46:36) like what do you see in teens that are (00:46:37) like you're like yes that's really great (00:46:40) coping skills like what like what is (00:46:41) healthy coping that you would love to (00:46:44) see in teens I get such a smile on my (00:46:46) face around this question because (00:46:47) healthy coping in teens can look so (00:46:50) different from healthy coping in adults (00:46:52) right healthy coping in adults it's like (00:46:54) you call a friend you go out to dinner (00:46:56) you you know take a shower healthy (00:46:58) coping and teens honest to God can be (00:47:00) your super hairy 17-year-old son (00:47:03) rereading Captain (00:47:06) Underpants teens sometimes go back to (00:47:08) little kid stuff as part of healthy (00:47:10) really I know that te they love video (00:47:13) games as part of healthy coping you know (00:47:15) and within limits like a distracting (00:47:17) video game that just you know connects (00:47:18) them with friends or changes their you (00:47:20) know what they're thinking about that's (00:47:22) healthy coping teens love music they (00:47:25) love listening to music for healthy (00:47:26) coping (00:47:27) teens will go do physical stuff um teens (00:47:31) love to eat Comfort foods for healthy (00:47:33) coping and again within limits (00:47:35) everything at moderation that's totally (00:47:37) fine Reena we've talked about this the (00:47:39) Skin Care overthe toop skin care stuff (00:47:42) we have yes we have can be healthy (00:47:44) coping so I think that um when we're (00:47:47) trying (00:47:48) to see that our kids are engaged in (00:47:50) healthy coping it's really imperative (00:47:52) that adults kind of widen the lens and (00:47:54) not just look for like a meditation (00:47:56) practice as evidence that their kid is (00:47:58) using healthy coping for some people (00:48:00) it's like shopping on Amazon or exactly (00:48:03) I want to ask you as we're wrapping it (00:48:05) up here what do you want parents to (00:48:07) really keep in mind when it comes to (00:48:10) dealing with this topic of telling your (00:48:12) children here are my mental health (00:48:15) issues that I've struggled with you know (00:48:17) re when you ask it that way it really (00:48:19) helps me home in on the key thing which (00:48:21) is it has to be about the teenager (00:48:24) you're sharing this information because (00:48:26) of something that you really care about (00:48:28) in your teenager whether they're (00:48:30) starting to exhibit behaviors that (00:48:32) you're worried about or um they have a (00:48:35) friend who they're concerned about or (00:48:39) you're sending them off to college and (00:48:41) somehow these conversations have never (00:48:42) come up and you know that college can (00:48:44) involve a lot of new stresses and so you (00:48:46) want to make sure that they (00:48:48) know your worries about biological (00:48:51) vulnerabilities to unhealthy coping (00:48:53) right that there's got to the kid has to (00:48:54) be at the center I would say don't it up (00:48:57) if it's just let me just tell you about (00:49:00) my life and a really upsetting and (00:49:01) disturbing to my child part of my life (00:49:05) it that's not really of um how we want (00:49:09) to approach this as parents like we (00:49:10) always want to approach this from the (00:49:12) standpoint of what is my kid need and (00:49:14) how can I use my experience to try to (00:49:16) help meet those needs not I have this (00:49:19) really painful story and the time has (00:49:22) come for you to hear it because that's (00:49:23) how I would approach it I would be so (00:49:25) dramatic and be like this is just I'm so (00:49:28) embarrassed by this and but you're also (00:49:31) saying pay attention to the tone in (00:49:32) which you're delivering this it's got to (00:49:34) be about the kid and what the kid needs (00:49:36) and Reena I think what you're describing (00:49:38) a lot of parents would feel and (00:49:40) warranted like of course these are like (00:49:43) our pasts can be hard people go through (00:49:46) Terrible Things everyone deserves (00:49:49) support around that that needs to be I (00:49:51) keep using the word metabolized it needs (00:49:53) to be metabolized it's not your (00:49:55) teenager's job to metab it for you or to (00:49:58) help you metabolize it and I think that (00:50:00) that's the distinction we want to make (00:50:02) So Lisa tell me what if you're currently (00:50:04) suffering with this issue like it's not (00:50:06) one and done in the sense of like you've (00:50:07) put it in the past it's deep in the (00:50:09) closet what advice do you have for (00:50:11) parents who are still struggling there (00:50:12) are parents who suffer from clinical (00:50:16) depression there are parents who have (00:50:18) anxiety disorders that are not under (00:50:20) control it is not by any (00:50:25) means a basic expect (00:50:27) that we are somehow parenting in full (00:50:29) mental health right I mean that that is (00:50:31) just not what is realistic it's not what (00:50:34) a lot of people's lives are I think here (00:50:38) there needs to be honesty with kids I (00:50:42) mean kids can see it especially (00:50:43) teenagers and I think again and you know (00:50:46) this is so hard when a parent themselves (00:50:48) is suffering there has to be a focus on (00:50:50) the kid and the kids's needs and so I (00:50:53) think a parent needs to try to get to a (00:50:56) place where they can say say I am (00:50:59) suffering from clinical depression I am (00:51:01) working with my doctors on trying to get (00:51:04) it under control and get it to a place (00:51:07) where I am really feeling better and (00:51:09) able to do more um I know this cannot be (00:51:12) easy for you and I want you to know that (00:51:15) your needs matter tremendously to me and (00:51:17) I'm going to make sure they get met even (00:51:19) as I find my way through this I think (00:51:21) that anything that a parent is suffering (00:51:24) with that um stands to interfere with (00:51:27) their ability to be the parent they want (00:51:28) to be should be addressed from a (00:51:31) standpoint like that a lot to think (00:51:34) about here um but you giving us these (00:51:37) tips of what to look out for how to say (00:51:40) it and to keep the kid really at the (00:51:42) focus can help with these conversations (00:51:45) I think that's right and I really I'm so (00:51:48) grateful for this letter because I think (00:51:51) this parent speaks to so many parents (00:51:54) experiences of having (00:51:57) lived through something having a (00:51:59) knowledge base that they you know earned (00:52:02) the hard way loving their kid wanting to (00:52:06) spare their kid pain wanting to use (00:52:08) their own experience to spare their kid (00:52:10) pain and running up against the reality (00:52:13) that to even try to coordinate with your (00:52:15) teenager about pickup from soccer yeah (00:52:20) exactly it's like next to impossible so (00:52:22) how do you have conversations like this (00:52:25) yeah I think that that is really really (00:52:27) um you know that just comes across so (00:52:29) clearly in the letter this this parent (00:52:31) understanding those tensions of things I (00:52:33) want to share and sometimes the (00:52:36) extraordinary challenges of having even (00:52:38) everyday conversations with teenagers it (00:52:40) isn't always easy in fact especially at (00:52:42) certain age it comes really harder I (00:52:43) think so Lisa what do you have for us (00:52:45) for parenting to go on this topic of (00:52:48) needing to have an important (00:52:51) conversation with a teenager if you get (00:52:53) an opening take it I think that's my (00:52:55) number one advice you don't always what (00:52:57) get those (00:52:58) openings and I think that there are (00:53:00) times in parenting where you feel like (00:53:02) okay this conversation has to happen no (00:53:03) opening has arrived I think then we need (00:53:06) to be thoughtful about how we approach (00:53:08) it and my advice is get on your kids (00:53:10) calendar say to your teenager there's a (00:53:12) conversation I need to have with you (00:53:14) about and then fill in the blank and (00:53:15) make it clear that it's not because of (00:53:17) something the kid did you know this has (00:53:19) been on my mind and the opportunity is (00:53:20) not Arisen are you available for that (00:53:23) conversation now is there a time in the (00:53:24) next few days where we could sit down I (00:53:26) don't think will take us more than 10 (00:53:27) minutes but I'm H you know but we'll see (00:53:30) engage them in when the conversation (00:53:33) happens a little bit about how the (00:53:35) conversation happens do not do a sneak (00:53:37) attack sneak attacks don't go well great (00:53:40) advice Lisa thank you thank you for (00:53:43) walking us through this and thank you to (00:53:45) the parent who wrote this letter because (00:53:47) um I it just makes you realize that you (00:53:50) can have these conversations and the (00:53:52) right way to do it I want to thank you (00:53:53) so much Lisa you bet and so next week (00:53:56) we're going to talk about what do you do (00:53:57) when kids at school are spreading ugly (00:53:59) rumors about your kid we'll have that (00:54:01) next week I'll see you then I'll see you (00:54:04) next week