Peaceful Parent, Happy Kids with Dr. Laura Markham (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) when you're with a child you're always (00:00:02) guiding them to appropriate behavior (00:00:04) that's in accordance with your values if (00:00:06) your value is respect for other people (00:00:08) you're guiding the child so that they (00:00:12) are noticing how other people react if (00:00:14) they're at the playground and they grab (00:00:16) the bucket from the other child we're (00:00:18) gonna say oh look at her face she was (00:00:22) using the bucket we need to give that (00:00:23) bucket back to her so we're always (00:00:25) setting that limit we're not making an (00:00:27) excuse for our child to run roughshod (00:00:29) over the world so there's a lot of (00:00:31) talking about what everybody needs but (00:00:34) in a very matter-of-fact way we're not (00:00:36) making our child wrong and bad for (00:00:38) taking the bucket or running in front of (00:00:40) the waiter we're correcting them (00:00:42) essentially but before we correct we (00:00:44) connect oh you wanted to run and look (00:00:47) out the window that's why you ran in (00:00:49) front of the waiter of course and (00:00:51) remember we talked about this we need to (00:00:53) stay in our seat there's no shame and (00:00:55) guilt matter of fact if your child (00:00:57) willingly gives off that bucket or even (00:00:59) grudgingly gives up the bucket for (00:01:01) something they want more which is the (00:01:02) relationship with you when he's 10 and (00:01:05) you say it's time to stop building with (00:01:07) your Legos and go to bed or whatever (00:01:09) he's doing he's like (00:01:11) mom you say I know you love doing that (00:01:14) and it's time to get ready for bed he's (00:01:16) gonna again he's built the neural wiring (00:01:18) he's able to do that when he's 14 and (00:01:21) his buddies say come on smoke some weed (00:01:22) with us behind the school he's like (00:01:24) really want to do that but I really (00:01:26) don't want to get kicked off the soccer (00:01:28) team I'm going to choose the soccer team (00:01:29) right he's developed the neural wiring (00:01:31) for self-discipline but what would have (00:01:33) happened if we just grabbed the bucket (00:01:35) away no moral wiring gets built he's not (00:01:38) actually making a choice when we don't (00:01:40) set limits children don't learn (00:01:42) self-discipline because they're never (00:01:44) asked to give up the thing they want for (00:01:45) what they want more but also when we are (00:01:48) authoritarian about it when we're strict (00:01:51) parents they also don't willingly give (00:01:53) it up because the discipline isn't (00:01:55) internal it's external no go take your (00:01:58) bath right now they're not developing (00:02:00) internal self-discipline and then it (00:02:02) more becomes about hiding from the (00:02:05) authority to get away with things which (00:02:07) is what happens when they become (00:02:08) teenagers exactly (00:02:13) that was Dr Laura Markham a clinical (00:02:15) psychologist mother and founder of aha (00:02:18) parenting an incredible online resource (00:02:20) for parents looking to build more (00:02:22) connection and raise happy competent (00:02:24) responsible and considerate kids she's (00:02:27) the best-selling author of two books (00:02:29) peaceful parent happy kids and peaceful (00:02:31) parent happy siblings and inspires (00:02:33) parents every day to choose connection (00:02:34) and coaching over punishment and control (00:02:36) even having read many different (00:02:38) parenting books myself I've never quite (00:02:40) found a resource as practical and easy (00:02:42) to implement as all that Dr Laura shares (00:02:44) I feel honored to have had her on my (00:02:45) podcast and ask her many of the (00:02:47) questions I have myself in raising our (00:02:49) children we discuss anything and (00:02:51) everything from a sibling rivalry to if (00:02:53) peaceful parenting creates weak and (00:02:55) entitled children to the secret every (00:02:57) parent needs to know about saying no and (00:02:59) my favorite part specific Solutions and (00:03:01) responses to Common scenarios in raising (00:03:03) kids this is one I'll be listening to (00:03:05) over and over again myself for reminders (00:03:07) as I navigate the parenting Journey (00:03:09) because none of us are perfect and these (00:03:11) reminders are true sources of (00:03:12) inspiration to take on each new day as (00:03:14) our best selves for our kids welcome to (00:03:16) the Ellen Fisher podcast let's get (00:03:18) started (00:03:19) [Music] (00:03:21) okay I know you know we can all use a (00:03:23) little support when it comes to staying (00:03:25) on top of our nutrition with busy lives (00:03:27) children and the sometimes seemingly (00:03:29) never-ending to-do list along with (00:03:32) eating a Whole Foods plant-based diet to (00:03:33) help me feel my best and 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so just enter the code Ellen 20 for (00:04:18) 20 off your order click the link in my (00:04:20) show notes low to get this deal (00:04:22) [Music] (00:04:24) thank you Dr Laura for being here I am (00:04:27) so excited for this conversation and to (00:04:29) pick your brain on all things parenting (00:04:31) and I definitely find your resources to (00:04:34) be extra easy to understand a lot of (00:04:37) times when I'm reading conscious (00:04:38) parenting respectful parenting gentle (00:04:40) parenting whatever you want to call it (00:04:41) resources I'm inspired but then I feel a (00:04:44) little bit like okay but how do I do (00:04:46) that you know and I just feel like a (00:04:48) little like I'm left hanging a little (00:04:50) bit but when I go to your website aha (00:04:52) parenting there's such clear easy (00:04:54) Direction on look this is this is how (00:04:56) you can respond to the specific scenario (00:04:58) and it's very helpful because then the (00:05:00) more you practice it the easier it (00:05:03) becomes so thank you for being here my (00:05:05) pleasure so first thing I want to ask (00:05:07) you is what made you realize I need to (00:05:09) get this message out there and help (00:05:11) parents about parenting our kids well (00:05:14) when I had my son I was finishing my PhD (00:05:18) in Clinical Psychology but they don't (00:05:21) teach you a lot about parenting but you (00:05:22) do learn about psychology and here I was (00:05:25) with this baby and I was around other (00:05:27) new parents and I saw that they (00:05:31) well they hadn't read the same research (00:05:33) articles I had clearly and they were (00:05:37) having such a hard time in general (00:05:38) parenting is stressful and they didn't (00:05:42) have a lot of support and I realized (00:05:44) that (00:05:46) we're you know babies brains when (00:05:49) they're born are pretty unformed babies (00:05:52) neurology take shape (00:05:54) in response to the experience the baby (00:05:57) has not one experience you know if you (00:05:59) yelled at your child once you're it's (00:06:01) not going to change your baby's brain (00:06:03) but babies and children their brains are (00:06:06) still forming and they form in response (00:06:08) to repeated experience (00:06:11) and I realize the parents around me (00:06:13) didn't didn't know that and didn't have (00:06:16) the support they needed to give their (00:06:18) babies and children (00:06:20) the support to shape brains and nervous (00:06:24) systems that would be the best they (00:06:26) could be in their lives so I wanted to (00:06:30) to support parents to do that yeah and I (00:06:33) think a lot of times as parents we're (00:06:35) just initially start raising our kids in (00:06:38) the way that we know how the way that we (00:06:40) were raised of course and then we don't (00:06:41) know really any other way yes but I (00:06:43) think there's a lot of people especially (00:06:45) people listening that are like I want I (00:06:47) want to be the best parent I can be for (00:06:49) my kids yes so what is the issue with (00:06:53) kind of the opposite of what you (00:06:54) advocate for like strict parenting like (00:06:56) what are the problems there so (00:06:58) conventional parenting in the United (00:07:01) States and really the whole Western (00:07:02) World conventional parenting says that (00:07:06) children should behave well it's all (00:07:09) about appearances it's not about how the (00:07:11) child feels it's not about the skills (00:07:14) the child is developing to manage their (00:07:16) own emotions (00:07:18) it's not about self-knowledge for the (00:07:20) child which is important for the child (00:07:21) to learn to manage themselves and it's (00:07:24) also not about the parent-child (00:07:25) connection conventional parenting is (00:07:28) like manipulation it's a set of (00:07:30) strategies right and it's about love (00:07:32) withdrawal conventional parenting says (00:07:35) if you don't do what I want you to do (00:07:37) I am going to withdraw my love I'm going (00:07:39) to send you to the naughty step you (00:07:41) think about what you've done here and (00:07:43) that's a sand in that's a symbol of what (00:07:46) I actually could do I could put you out (00:07:49) the door (00:07:50) and that sounds extreme but there is a (00:07:53) parenting expert who I won't name who in (00:07:56) her book (00:07:58) describes how her four-year-old wouldn't (00:08:00) brush her teeth and she was tired of (00:08:02) that struggle and she took the (00:08:04) four-year-old and put her outside on the (00:08:06) family deck it was in the winter the (00:08:09) child had her nightgown on and no shoes (00:08:11) now to be fair it was California so it (00:08:13) wasn't in the snow or anything but it (00:08:14) was cold she put the child outside in (00:08:17) the dark and shut the door a (00:08:18) four-year-old (00:08:20) that's (00:08:22) um that's conventional parenting (00:08:24) taken a step further it says to the (00:08:26) child if you don't do what I want I will (00:08:29) cast you out (00:08:30) what we say to the child is (00:08:32) we love you you're okay the way you are (00:08:35) in fact we adore you the way you are you (00:08:38) can't always act out all those big (00:08:40) feelings you have but all the feelings (00:08:42) are understandable because you're human (00:08:44) and we'll help you manage them we've got (00:08:46) you I think that like a lot of times (00:08:48) parents are like yeah I don't want to (00:08:50) get to that place or you know maybe your (00:08:52) example or yelling or threatening or (00:08:54) counting to count to three or else you (00:08:56) know a lot of times parents think I (00:08:58) don't know what else to do to get my (00:09:00) kids to listen so why why are we acting (00:09:03) that way why do we get to that place of (00:09:05) course and there are two reasons we get (00:09:07) to that place one is that some kids are (00:09:09) more difficult than other kids (00:09:11) anyone who's been around a lot of (00:09:13) children knows they're all different and (00:09:15) it's not just how they're raised they're (00:09:17) all born different right so some kids (00:09:19) are more challenging they're more (00:09:21) sensitive they have sensory Pro you know (00:09:23) they they experience the world (00:09:24) differently than than maybe I do or you (00:09:26) do so kids are different that's one (00:09:29) reason it's hard for parents there's (00:09:31) another reason though (00:09:32) when we parent conventionally we are (00:09:36) undermining the relationship the natural (00:09:38) relationship we have with our child (00:09:40) conventional parenting that uses threats (00:09:43) and Punishment (00:09:46) imagine if you were married to someone (00:09:49) who used threats and Punishment on you (00:09:51) would you feel close to them no of (00:09:53) course not no and so children don't know (00:09:56) enough to articulate that but they don't (00:09:59) feel close to us when we do that and (00:10:01) they act out so that's a reason parents (00:10:05) are you know parents say he's driving me (00:10:07) crazy well he's driving you crazy (00:10:09) because he doesn't feel connected he's (00:10:12) either trying to get your attention or (00:10:14) your approval or he's given up on it and (00:10:17) he's out for number one because he (00:10:19) doesn't think there's anyone in his (00:10:20) corner right so of course that of the (00:10:23) effect on the parent is for the parent (00:10:25) to think the child is a brat the child's (00:10:28) just difficult they can't get the child (00:10:30) to do what they want unless they you (00:10:32) know how conventional parenting works (00:10:33) you threaten if it doesn't work you have (00:10:35) to threaten something more so you're (00:10:38) always upping the ante and meanwhile (00:10:41) you're destroying your relationship with (00:10:43) your child basically because you're (00:10:45) causing more and more tension and a lot (00:10:47) of it I've heard you say it comes out of (00:10:49) fear which is so true when I break it (00:10:52) down almost every one of my moments that (00:10:54) are like oh that was a low parenting (00:10:56) moment or oh I didn't do my best it's (00:10:58) because I was acting out of fear or I (00:11:00) wasn't well taken care of myself and I (00:11:02) was yes I was on edge because I didn't (00:11:05) get enough sleep or I didn't get my (00:11:06) shower that I really wanted and you know (00:11:08) things basic needs that I need to be met (00:11:11) so that I'm the best human I can be for (00:11:12) my kids so can we talk a little bit (00:11:14) about like the fear based aspect the (00:11:16) fear absolutely and I think this is a (00:11:18) perfect opportunity for us to just be (00:11:21) really clear for everyone watching (00:11:24) every parent has low parenting moments (00:11:26) every human has times when we aren't at (00:11:30) our best that's how we learn that's how (00:11:32) we grow use that you know it's not a (00:11:34) mistake if you learn from it right and I (00:11:37) just think parents need to um maybe the (00:11:40) most important thing parents can do is (00:11:42) put themselves back on their list so (00:11:43) they do meet their own needs that was a (00:11:45) beautiful description of what we're not (00:11:47) at our best if we don't get enough sleep (00:11:49) if we don't eat when we're hungry and (00:11:52) Etc right and when we do mess up (00:11:56) self-compassion it is the most important (00:11:58) thing we can do is to forgive ourselves (00:12:00) and to say yes it's hard it's hard to be (00:12:03) a parent and then to see what we can do (00:12:06) differently the next day and apologize (00:12:08) to our children when we make mistakes (00:12:09) yes and if we you know some parents are (00:12:12) reluctant to apologize because they (00:12:14) think it diminishes their stature (00:12:17) so not true your child knows what you (00:12:19) did yeah if you don't apologize why (00:12:22) should your child learn to apologize (00:12:23) number one yes yes that's what I say all (00:12:25) the time and and also if we don't (00:12:27) apologize there's a way in which not (00:12:30) only don't we repair the relationship (00:12:32) with our child we don't if we don't (00:12:34) apologize also we don't repair our own (00:12:37) sense of self we walk around feeling (00:12:39) like oh I did mess up I mess up if we (00:12:42) can redeem ourselves with our child and (00:12:45) remake that repair we can feel better (00:12:47) about ourselves we can let go of that (00:12:49) guilt and that shame because shame and (00:12:51) guilt are not going to make us better (00:12:53) parents we need to repair that so we can (00:12:55) move on with our head held high and be (00:12:57) the best parent we can be tomorrow yeah (00:12:59) and some of my most pivotal connection (00:13:01) moments with my kids are when I am (00:13:03) saying sorry and then they're saying oh (00:13:05) wow Mom humbling herself like oh my mom (00:13:07) sees me Mom feels my my frustration mom (00:13:11) cares yeah and then there's like such a (00:13:14) great connection moment even from there (00:13:15) so I love that you said that I think (00:13:18) it's so important for people to hear (00:13:19) that it doesn't not only doesn't it (00:13:23) diminish you you can come out of that (00:13:26) disruption in your relationship stronger (00:13:29) you can you you and your child come out (00:13:31) with a better relationship after that (00:13:33) and I think a lot of times people want (00:13:35) to separate well kids are different than (00:13:37) any of these adult examples you're (00:13:39) giving but can you touch a little bit on (00:13:42) that aspect because when you give that (00:13:43) example of look if you treated your kids (00:13:45) the way that you treat your spouse or (00:13:47) the way that you treat your friends like (00:13:49) how close would your would your your (00:13:51) loved ones feel to you how much would (00:13:53) they like being around you and a lot of (00:13:55) times I think people want to say well (00:13:57) it's different it's different because (00:13:58) they're kids like what what's your (00:14:00) response to that so yes it's different (00:14:03) because we are in a position with our (00:14:06) children where we need to (00:14:09) um set boundaries sometimes we do need (00:14:11) to set limits it in fact if you're a (00:14:13) parent all day every day you're probably (00:14:14) setting limits right on the other hand (00:14:17) it's not different at all your child is (00:14:19) a human being and the same (00:14:22) um factors that govern any human being (00:14:25) psyche govern your child which is that (00:14:27) your child notices when they're treated (00:14:29) with respect versus disrespect with (00:14:31) affection and warmth and understanding (00:14:34) versus orders yes and also I mean you (00:14:38) can relay this to let's say you're in a (00:14:39) partner relation a partner example where (00:14:42) one is maybe not acting like their best (00:14:44) self because that's kind of what we're (00:14:45) relating to kids like okay their brain (00:14:47) is still developing they have a lot of (00:14:48) learning to do so we're there to guide (00:14:50) them but even in a relationship with (00:14:52) adults one or the other could be having (00:14:54) a low moment and they're not being their (00:14:56) best self like what's going to help you (00:14:58) get out of that moment is it when the (00:15:00) other yells at you shames you refuses to (00:15:03) talk to you or whatever has you know (00:15:05) punishments or is it like a loving (00:15:08) Embrace acknowledging your feelings even (00:15:11) if the other thinks that the feelings (00:15:12) feelings are silly because you know I (00:15:14) have a lot of feelings I have a lot of (00:15:15) emotions that my husband sometimes is (00:15:17) like okay another another emotion let's (00:15:20) all right here we go you know because (00:15:21) you just not he just doesn't operate the (00:15:25) same like you know place that I do but (00:15:28) him willing to care about my feelings (00:15:30) regardless of the feeling helps me in my (00:15:33) lowest moments so I feel like that's a (00:15:35) good example I think that's beautifully (00:15:37) said and and I would argue that you know (00:15:40) we could say from this oh will children (00:15:42) have these inconvenient feelings well (00:15:45) children give us the tremendous gift of (00:15:47) presence they're fully present in the (00:15:49) moment that's why their feelings are so (00:15:51) big that (00:15:53) their presence is such a gift to us (00:15:55) right it just like I would argue that (00:15:58) you're a person with big feelings you (00:16:01) know your husband's in love with you (00:16:02) partly because you bring those big (00:16:04) feelings to every aspect of your (00:16:05) relationship and he loves that about you (00:16:08) even if at times it's inconvenient yeah (00:16:10) the same thing is true for our (00:16:11) relationship with our children what a (00:16:13) gift it is for us that they have these (00:16:15) big feelings even though at times we (00:16:18) need to help them to learn to manage (00:16:20) them and that doesn't that doesn't (00:16:22) happen by our saying (00:16:25) manage your feelings it happens by us (00:16:28) saying oh you're really upset right now (00:16:31) about this I see that tell me more and (00:16:34) you can always you don't have to throw (00:16:37) that to show me how upset you are you (00:16:39) can always tell me and I will always (00:16:40) listen and try to help you right so that (00:16:43) that's how kids learn to manage their (00:16:44) feelings yeah totally yeah so now I want (00:16:47) to ask you a very specific question that (00:16:48) I hear sometimes that respectful (00:16:51) parenting gentle parenting causes and (00:16:54) creates weak and entitled children (00:16:56) what what are your thoughts on that well (00:16:58) first we should probably (00:17:00) uh Define respectful or gentle parenting (00:17:03) you you know conscious parenting (00:17:04) peaceful parenting there's a lot of (00:17:06) words for this and (00:17:09) what we're really talking about is (00:17:11) respect for this other human being and (00:17:14) showing up in relationship with this (00:17:19) other human being in a way that is for (00:17:22) their highest good (00:17:23) because that is our responsibility we (00:17:25) said it is different than a relationship (00:17:27) with another adult we're not actually (00:17:29) responsible for the well-being of most (00:17:31) of the people we interact with we are we (00:17:33) took on the responsibility when we (00:17:35) decided to have a child we may not have (00:17:37) understood what we were doing but we did (00:17:38) take on the responsibility which is a (00:17:41) sacred responsibility right so we need (00:17:43) to show up in a way that is for their (00:17:45) highest good and we don't have to be (00:17:46) perfect as we've already said when we (00:17:49) repair we can even strengthen the (00:17:51) relationship right (00:17:53) okay so (00:17:56) um that's respectful parenting I think (00:17:58) would be it's not enough to say that but (00:18:00) that is what that's the kernel of what (00:18:02) we're talking about my particular (00:18:05) approach which I call peaceful parenting (00:18:07) is it's all about the relationship it's (00:18:10) all about the connection with the child (00:18:11) right and it's about coaching the child (00:18:14) to be their best self instead of (00:18:16) resorting to control (00:18:17) rewards punishment threats yelling okay (00:18:21) so that's those are the two big Ideas (00:18:23) right we connect and we coach the child (00:18:25) which includes emotion coaching and it (00:18:28) also includes setting up the environment (00:18:30) for the child to thrive that might mean (00:18:33) bedtime it might mean fewer screens it (00:18:36) might mean less sugar whatever it you (00:18:38) know Maria Montessori said don't try to (00:18:41) control the child control the (00:18:43) environment so the child can Thrive (00:18:45) that's part of coaching right an emotion (00:18:48) coaching we can talk more about and give (00:18:49) some examples but emotion coaching helps (00:18:52) kids with their emotions so those are (00:18:54) the first two big ideas but notice (00:18:55) what's missing here no parent who is (00:18:59) has not had any sleep who has you know (00:19:01) dysregulated who is upset and who (00:19:04) believes that their child is um going to (00:19:07) be a spoiled brat if they if they (00:19:09) empathize with them that parent cannot (00:19:10) actually offer the child connection that (00:19:13) parent cannot actually coach they're (00:19:15) going to resort to control out of their (00:19:16) own fear that this child is going to be (00:19:18) a brat right so the third big idea in my (00:19:21) Approach peaceful parenting is parents (00:19:25) have to self-regulate that means you (00:19:28) have to take care of yourself it means (00:19:29) you have to work on your issues that get (00:19:31) triggered so that you can show up as the (00:19:33) parent you want to be and be present (00:19:35) with your child yes I love that yeah so (00:19:37) those are the three ideas so the (00:19:39) question is does that produce a spoiled (00:19:41) brat if you think that you will act out (00:19:43) of your fear and when we act out of fear (00:19:45) we go to the lowest place we can come (00:19:49) from when we act out of fear and we're (00:19:51) always sorry later if you if if anyone (00:19:54) listening reflects on their life and (00:19:56) they think those times (00:19:58) when my heart is overflowing with love (00:20:00) and I relate to the people around me (00:20:01) from that versus those times when I'm (00:20:04) I'm scared and I'm notice how I just (00:20:07) tightened up like you could just feel (00:20:08) your heart tighten up you feel your (00:20:10) stomach tighten up you don't respond (00:20:13) from fear in a way that supports anyone (00:20:16) else's growth or your own you don't (00:20:18) support connection you res when we get (00:20:20) scared we control that's what humans do (00:20:23) because we're frightened so if you come (00:20:25) from that perspective you can guarantee (00:20:27) that your child will not be okay you're (00:20:30) undermining the relationship (00:20:32) so I think when people say that the fear (00:20:35) they're really expressing is (00:20:38) if I empathize with my child and they (00:20:42) are allowed to have these big feelings (00:20:45) they will be out of control and they'll (00:20:47) act badly so I would say to that parent (00:20:50) they're confusing two things they're (00:20:53) confusing the emotions and the Behavior (00:20:55) now all Behavior does come from emotions (00:20:57) but all Emotions Don't Have To result in (00:21:00) Behavior I may be quite angry at someone (00:21:02) but I'm not going to hit them I'm not (00:21:04) even going to yell at them (00:21:05) I'm gonna look at what's going on for me (00:21:08) that I'm angry at them maybe they've (00:21:11) trespassed some boundary that's (00:21:12) important to me right and I'm going to (00:21:15) express that in words what we have found (00:21:17) through research is that when you (00:21:19) express something in words you don't (00:21:21) actually have to act it out to the (00:21:23) degree that your child can put into (00:21:25) words how angry they are at their little (00:21:27) brother (00:21:28) they don't have to hit the little (00:21:30) brother right right so our job as (00:21:32) parents is to say to our kids you can be (00:21:35) as mad as you want to at your brother (00:21:37) you can be as mad as you feel you tell (00:21:39) me about it I hear you oh and he wrecked (00:21:42) your you got that trophy for your sports (00:21:44) and he wrecked your trophy and you told (00:21:47) him not to play with that no wonder (00:21:49) you're mad of course sweetheart right it (00:21:51) sounds like you have something really (00:21:52) important to tell your brother right (00:21:54) I'll help come with me I'll help I'll be (00:21:56) with you while you tell your brother (00:21:57) right and you're also making sure he's (00:21:59) not going to scream at his two-year-old (00:22:01) brother and you know you're you're (00:22:03) protecting both kids but also teaching (00:22:05) them to advocate for themselves right (00:22:07) but notice you're not letting them go (00:22:09) smash his little brother right right (00:22:12) even verbally right so I think that when (00:22:15) parents say (00:22:16) gentle parenting produces a spoiled brat (00:22:20) maybe they've seen someone who says (00:22:22) they're doing gentle parenting who (00:22:24) doesn't set limits that's entirely (00:22:25) possible (00:22:26) or maybe it's just Their Fear talking (00:22:28) that they think that a child who's (00:22:31) allowed to have feel their feelings when (00:22:34) they when you acknowledge feelings that (00:22:35) somehow that is bad I think humans (00:22:40) always have feelings and feelings are (00:22:43) fine and they are part of our experience (00:22:45) of being human and we can express those (00:22:48) and the more our feelings are (00:22:50) acknowledged the less we will Express (00:22:52) those feelings in ways that are harmful (00:22:55) to other people and the more that we're (00:22:58) modeled the behavior and emotion (00:23:00) self-regulated emotions from our parents (00:23:03) yes and I think also the easier it (00:23:05) becomes as we become adults maybe to not (00:23:07) be super triggered or extra sensitive (00:23:10) like you still have your feelings but (00:23:12) maybe to not such a high degree where (00:23:14) like little things can hyper trigger you (00:23:17) because the way that your parents (00:23:18) responded was little things didn't (00:23:19) trigger them no question you know we (00:23:21) talked about the brain and the nervous (00:23:23) system (00:23:25) [Music] (00:23:27) okay you guys if you haven't purchased (00:23:30) anything from Indigo Lona yet you are (00:23:32) totally missing out you know how a lot (00:23:34) of yoga wear can ride up in (00:23:35) uncomfortable ways or just isn't super (00:23:37) flattering while Indigo Luna is (00:23:39) different I am constantly finding myself (00:23:41) reaching in my closet for a piece from (00:23:43) Indigo Luna because everything in their (00:23:45) shop is made to hug your curves in all (00:23:47) the right places that not only holds (00:23:48) your body well it also fits 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(00:24:31) guys a discount code just enter the code (00:24:32) Ellen 10 for 10 of your order or click (00:24:35) the link in the show notes (00:24:39) when children get yelled at on a regular (00:24:43) basis (00:24:44) or when they get spanked (00:24:46) people have all kinds of reasons to (00:24:48) spank you know they might say well the (00:24:51) Bible says so and I would just say there (00:24:53) are plenty of people who've written (00:24:54) about this who say you have to you can (00:24:56) have different interpretations of what (00:24:57) the Bible says for instance but we know (00:25:00) that when children are spanked for any (00:25:02) reason or hit or yelled at even on a (00:25:05) regular basis what ends up happening is (00:25:07) the brain becomes reactive that the (00:25:11) amygdala the alarm system these two (00:25:13) little almond-shaped places in your (00:25:16) brain go alarm alarm whenever anything (00:25:19) happens it feels like a threat so when (00:25:21) the little brother takes something of (00:25:23) theirs and breaks it (00:25:24) to them that's an alarm going off right (00:25:27) yeah and they will respond the way (00:25:30) they've been treated often right yeah if (00:25:32) the parents respond to an emergency by (00:25:35) screaming at the kids that child will (00:25:37) respond as if it's an emergency and (00:25:38) scream at his brother or me even hit him (00:25:40) or then there's also I feel like another (00:25:42) scenario where the child goes Inward and (00:25:46) they're on the outside behaving in a way (00:25:48) that maybe you think is optimal but then (00:25:50) maybe on the inside they might not be (00:25:52) regularly in their emotions well is that (00:25:54) also something do you think that's valid (00:25:56) I think that's totally valid think about (00:25:58) the number of adults you know who try so (00:26:01) hard as adults to be good (00:26:04) good little girl or a good little boy (00:26:06) right somewhere inside them there's (00:26:07) somebody who doesn't feel okay about (00:26:09) themselves there's all that shame and (00:26:11) guilt and they those feelings are so (00:26:14) hard to live with because they're (00:26:15) beating up on themselves all the time (00:26:17) right and they end up drinking too much (00:26:21) smoking too much weed doing you know (00:26:24) sometimes other addictions like shopping (00:26:26) we do things to make ourselves feel (00:26:28) better because we have these terrible (00:26:31) ways of treating ourselves and that (00:26:33) starts in childhood whatever voice our (00:26:35) parents used with us routinely becomes (00:26:37) our own inner voice and the way we treat (00:26:38) ourselves so most of us have some (00:26:41) healing to do there as I said (00:26:43) self-compassion of re of beginning to (00:26:46) talk to ourselves like it's someone we (00:26:49) love absolutely and is there any (00:26:50) research in regards to this like (00:26:52) comparison aspect of the different types (00:26:54) of parenting oh yes lots lots (00:26:56) psychologists I'm guessing it's showing (00:27:00) all these things that you're saying so (00:27:01) conventional parenting is often referred (00:27:04) to as control parenting in the research (00:27:08) and you look at discipline techniques (00:27:10) that parents use and if parents resort (00:27:13) to control strategies to get their child (00:27:17) to behave those children are more likely (00:27:21) to treat treat their siblings badly (00:27:24) that's one research study (00:27:26) um it's a bunch of research it actually (00:27:29) makes so much sense because they're (00:27:30) being controlled so then they're wanting (00:27:33) to control the smaller person in their (00:27:35) life because the bigger people in their (00:27:37) life are controlling them and dictating (00:27:39) them maybe more than what's healthy (00:27:41) right and then they yes and then they (00:27:42) want to do the same to their little (00:27:43) little sibling I've definitely seen that (00:27:45) in my own family even there are certain (00:27:46) times where I'm seeing you know my older (00:27:49) siblings treat the younger siblings in a (00:27:50) certain way I'm like oh wait wait don't (00:27:51) do that oh wait I've done that I've done (00:27:54) that to them you know yeah and I've had (00:27:56) parents say to me that they hear the (00:27:58) same words coming out of their child's (00:28:00) mouth that they use toward their child (00:28:01) right and of course the opposite is also (00:28:04) true that parents who are more empathic (00:28:06) with their child when they say oh I see (00:28:09) you're really you really wish I would (00:28:11) say yes to this and we can't do it now (00:28:13) it's time for dinner now but I hear how (00:28:14) much you wish you could that when you (00:28:17) know tomorrow they'll hear their from (00:28:19) the they're making dinner and they hear (00:28:21) in the other room the older sister (00:28:23) saying to the younger child you know oh (00:28:25) I know you wish you could play with this (00:28:27) and right now I'm playing with it but (00:28:28) you could have it after me or something (00:28:29) yeah so we definitely have that in our (00:28:31) family too with all the different ages (00:28:32) we have like I've definitely I've (00:28:34) definitely seen that it's like oh those (00:28:36) moments like yeah oh yay okay I'm doing (00:28:38) something right and then going back to (00:28:40) what you said about parenting where (00:28:42) someone thinks it's gentle parenting but (00:28:45) but what is actually happening is there (00:28:46) aren't any boundaries I think that's a (00:28:48) very common misconception people have (00:28:49) about peaceful respectable parenting (00:28:51) that oh you just have no boundaries and (00:28:54) your kids walk all over you and they get (00:28:55) whatever they want in life and then (00:28:57) they're going to grow up to be entitled (00:28:58) like I see how they get to that place (00:29:00) yes if they've seen that in real life so (00:29:03) how can we explain that confusion for (00:29:05) because I think some people do get (00:29:07) confused they go oh yes I love the idea (00:29:08) connection connecting with my child you (00:29:11) know and then it goes to a place where (00:29:12) there aren't boundaries if they're not (00:29:14) be careful yeah so I think it when (00:29:18) you're with a child you're always (00:29:20) guiding them (00:29:21) you're trying to take your cues from the (00:29:25) child right but you're always guiding (00:29:27) them to appropriate behavior that's in (00:29:29) accordance with your values if your (00:29:32) value is respect for other people (00:29:34) you're guiding the child so that they (00:29:38) are noticing how other people react so (00:29:41) if they're at the playground and they (00:29:43) grab the bucket from the other child (00:29:44) we're not going to let that happen right (00:29:47) we're going to say oh look at her face (00:29:51) she was using the bucket she wants the (00:29:54) bucket (00:29:56) we need to give that bucket back to her (00:29:58) or did you did you ask her if she's done (00:30:00) with it yet we need to find out when (00:30:02) she'll be done and maybe she'll let you (00:30:03) use it after that you want to give the (00:30:05) bucket back and ask her so we're always (00:30:07) setting that limit we're not making an (00:30:09) excuse for our child to run roughshod (00:30:11) over the world and when we take our (00:30:13) child to a restaurant we're not letting (00:30:15) the child run around the restaurant (00:30:16) under other people's feet unless that's (00:30:19) the ethos of that restaurant if it's on (00:30:20) the beach and that's what people do (00:30:21) that's fine but in general we're going (00:30:24) to have a conversation before we go into (00:30:25) the restaurant and say what's (00:30:27) everybody's job in the restaurant yes (00:30:30) the wait staff's job is to get that food (00:30:33) hot food out of the kitchen safely and (00:30:36) onto our table such a gift to us that (00:30:39) we're going to be able to eat that food (00:30:40) what would happen if we ran under their (00:30:43) feet while they were trying to do that (00:30:44) uh oh that would be a mess and we talked (00:30:48) to our kids about it so there's a lot of (00:30:51) um talking about what everybody needs (00:30:54) but in a very matter of fact way we're (00:30:57) not making our child wrong and bad for (00:31:00) taking the bucket or running in front of (00:31:01) the waiter but we are we are saying and (00:31:05) and also we're correcting them (00:31:07) essentially right but before we correct (00:31:09) we connect oh you wanted to run and look (00:31:13) out the window that's why you ran in (00:31:15) front of the waiter of course and (00:31:17) remember we talked about this we need to (00:31:19) stay in our seat right oh of course you (00:31:22) want to use a red bucket because Red's (00:31:24) your favorite color and that's her (00:31:26) bucket notice I'm saying and (00:31:28) sometimes when you say but it sort of (00:31:31) invalidates what came before yeah right (00:31:33) we're saying and all things can be true (00:31:35) at once and our child is not bad and (00:31:37) wrong there's no shame and guilt matter (00:31:40) of fact and when can we when can we do a (00:31:43) matter of fact when we get away from our (00:31:45) own fear if our fear says everyone in (00:31:47) the restaurant is staring at me or the (00:31:49) other parents at the playground are (00:31:51) staring at me then we're going to be I (00:31:53) told you not to take that bucket and (00:31:55) then the child goes oh oh (00:31:58) and that's what that is is the shame (00:32:00) that we feel we're being looked at and (00:32:02) we feel all that shame and we can't (00:32:04) handle it so we dump it on our child and (00:32:08) that's how shame gets visited down the (00:32:09) generations wow yeah that's explained so (00:32:12) well and it just like you said it's (00:32:14) coming out of fear we're afraid of what (00:32:16) people are gonna think of us they're (00:32:18) looking at us and so we're reacting out (00:32:20) of fear so what do you do in that (00:32:22) particular example you gave where you (00:32:24) explained that you wanted to do this and (00:32:26) and then what do you do if they still (00:32:28) don't want to give it back okay totally (00:32:30) understandable that your four-year-old (00:32:33) does not want to give that bucket back (00:32:35) or even two-year-olds or even or (00:32:36) two-year-old especially yeah (00:32:37) four-year-old's more likely to give it (00:32:39) back yeah yeah but but the two year old (00:32:40) certainly doesn't get yeah that this was (00:32:42) somebody else's bucket and even if they (00:32:44) did they don't care yeah two girls do (00:32:46) have empathy but they also have not (00:32:49) learned that they will always get their (00:32:50) needs met and therefore they're like I'm (00:32:53) gonna look out for number one I'm gonna (00:32:54) grab that bucket yeah so at that point (00:32:57) you you first of all (00:33:00) take that deep breath because your fear (00:33:02) is starting to rise that everybody's (00:33:04) going to look at you and think you're a (00:33:05) terrible Mom that's the first thing (00:33:07) then you say to the child in question (00:33:10) that because you're trying to make this (00:33:13) okay and keep that child from exploding (00:33:15) right the temperature is rising in the (00:33:17) room or in the playground you say to (00:33:19) this child (00:33:20) oh that's your red bucket isn't it and (00:33:23) he took your red bucket (00:33:25) you weren't done with it were you and (00:33:28) the child's like yeah so you've already (00:33:30) got that child you and that child are in (00:33:32) alignment the child's not going to (00:33:33) explode yet that's great okay and you (00:33:35) look at the mother or father you say I'm (00:33:37) so sorry we'll get it back right so that (00:33:40) you're connecting with so that now you (00:33:42) you've got a little time right you've (00:33:44) just bought yourself a tiny bit of time (00:33:46) so you know and you feel a little better (00:33:48) like No One's Gonna think badly of you (00:33:50) but you still have no idea how you're (00:33:52) gonna get the bucket back right the way (00:33:53) you're gonna get the bucket back is (00:33:55) you're going to start by affirming (00:33:57) you're going to connect with your child (00:33:58) you if your child feels that you have (00:34:01) suddenly left their corner and you're (00:34:03) fighting with them and trying to get (00:34:05) that bucket back your child is never (00:34:06) going to give the bucket back and you're (00:34:08) going to be you know unclenching their (00:34:10) fingers and they're screaming at the top (00:34:12) of their lungs right you may still have (00:34:14) to do that you may but you're definitely (00:34:17) going to have to do that if you don't (00:34:18) connect with your child so now that (00:34:20) you've bought yourself a little time you (00:34:22) turn to your own child and you say (00:34:24) that is a beautiful bucket I see why you (00:34:27) wanted Meanwhile your child is like not (00:34:29) looking at you they're filling that (00:34:30) bucket as fast as they canvas and (00:34:32) they're like I've never seen you before (00:34:33) in my life you know I don't know who you (00:34:35) are lady (00:34:36) and you say that is a great bucket (00:34:38) you're filling it with sand you wish you (00:34:40) could keep that bucket (00:34:42) and your child's like (00:34:44) you wish you could keep that bucket (00:34:46) maybe you can use it after right now (00:34:50) and you you give them some other options (00:34:52) you know right now we have the blue (00:34:54) bucket (00:34:55) or we can use the dump truck right or we (00:34:58) can go to the water fountain and get a (00:35:00) drink you can you know too many options (00:35:02) for a toddler doesn't work you really (00:35:04) can't do more than two options for a (00:35:05) toddler right (00:35:06) um but you decide what you're going to (00:35:07) offer is the options and Meanwhile your (00:35:09) toddler's still ignoring you they're (00:35:10) they're filling up that bucket as fast (00:35:12) as they can and you say you wish you (00:35:14) could keep the bucket I see you we need (00:35:16) to give the bucket back now what did I (00:35:18) just do I I totally empathized I (00:35:21) validated I connected and I set a really (00:35:24) clear limit and right now we need to (00:35:26) give the bucket back at this point a (00:35:29) two-year-old is going to do any number (00:35:30) of things depending on the two-year-old (00:35:32) they might (00:35:34) thrust thrust it back nicely that would (00:35:36) be great they might curl it at her head (00:35:39) which would not be as great (00:35:41) um luckily it's full of sand so they (00:35:43) can't get it very high (00:35:44) um they might say no I won't right (00:35:49) um you know every every kid's a little (00:35:51) different (00:35:52) um and you say you wish you could keep (00:35:54) it I'm gonna give you let's pork now (00:35:57) what I would do is I would say let's (00:35:58) pour (00:36:00) the the blue bucket that's oh look at (00:36:03) this said you're putting your hands on (00:36:04) the blue bucket your kid's got a hand on (00:36:06) the blue bucket too and looking at you (00:36:07) like and you pick up the blue Buck you (00:36:10) say let's pour help me pour help me pour (00:36:12) in your child's helping you if you have (00:36:14) a relationship with your child that is (00:36:16) about connection which is our goal and (00:36:19) you've just connected this way you're (00:36:20) saying help me pour and your child's (00:36:23) like uh okay and you're pouring into (00:36:26) their red bucket and you say look at (00:36:29) look at you filled it up and you put (00:36:30) that beautiful sand in the red bucket (00:36:32) and you've got the blue bucket here and (00:36:34) you're saying and let's ask her if you (00:36:38) can use the blue bucket when she's ready (00:36:40) when she's done we need to give it back (00:36:42) now and you're handing it to the mother (00:36:43) let's say so it's over your child's head (00:36:45) and your child's like (00:36:48) and you say you want that can we ask and (00:36:51) you model with you so people often say (00:36:54) what if my child won't say he's sorry (00:36:55) model it yeah what if your child doesn't (00:36:57) know how to ask model it you say let's (00:37:00) ask her when you're done with your (00:37:02) beautiful blue bucket do you think that (00:37:05) kofax could have a turn you know and and (00:37:09) she might go no and she grabs the bucket (00:37:11) you say she loves that bucket she (00:37:14) doesn't want to share it I understand we (00:37:16) all feel that way sometimes and you know (00:37:18) that's that and if your child is now (00:37:20) screaming you pick your child up and you (00:37:23) hug him you say it was so hard to give (00:37:24) that back I am so proud of you he's (00:37:27) screaming you're still sane I am so (00:37:30) proud of you that was so hard to do and (00:37:33) it wasn't our bucket we had to give it (00:37:35) back I am so proud of you it's hard to (00:37:38) give something back when you want it a (00:37:40) lot of times too though the distraction (00:37:41) of like what else at this age right what (00:37:44) else can we get excited about is enough (00:37:46) it's totally enough and we get sometimes (00:37:48) parents can get caught up in the like (00:37:49) okay I have to punish them because they (00:37:51) have to learn that they can't take away (00:37:53) something from somebody else and they (00:37:55) need discipline and punishment but (00:37:57) really it depends on their age as well (00:37:59) like at the age of two like literally (00:38:01) distraction is all you need most of the (00:38:03) time really true wow look at that (00:38:05) butterfly yes yes but let's talk about (00:38:07) what discipline is yeah people are (00:38:09) confused about discipline discipline is (00:38:13) when we decide (00:38:16) when we decide inside what's most (00:38:19) important to us and we act on it so I (00:38:21) want this piece of cake but there's (00:38:23) something I want more I want my health (00:38:26) that's a higher value to me I'm going to (00:38:28) put that Health above the cake and act (00:38:31) on that right and what just happened (00:38:34) with the two-year-old that two-year-old (00:38:36) wanted that bucket but he wanted (00:38:38) something more he wanted that connection (00:38:41) with you and you were connecting if you (00:38:44) had just said no no we have to give it (00:38:46) back that's not a connection your child (00:38:48) has nothing to substitute right yeah and (00:38:51) we we wonder (00:38:53) when children are undisciplined (00:38:55) when children don't act with discipline (00:38:57) there are two reasons one is when (00:38:59) they're when limits aren't set and (00:39:01) they're never asked to do that because (00:39:03) when we do this neural wiring develops (00:39:07) so when (00:39:09) if you if your child willingly gives up (00:39:11) that bucket or even grudgingly gives up (00:39:13) the bucket for something they want more (00:39:15) which is the relationship with you right (00:39:17) when he's 10 and you say it's time to (00:39:21) stop building with your Legos and go to (00:39:23) bed or whatever he's doing (00:39:25) he's like Mom you say I know you love (00:39:29) doing that and it's time to get ready (00:39:30) for bed right he's gonna again he's (00:39:33) built the neural wiring he's able to do (00:39:35) that when he's 14 and his buddies say (00:39:38) come on smoke some weed with us behind (00:39:39) the school he's like (00:39:42) really want to do that but I really (00:39:43) don't want to get kicked off the soccer (00:39:44) team I'm not I'm going to choose the (00:39:46) soccer team right he's developed the (00:39:48) neural wiring for self-discipline but (00:39:51) what would have happened if we just (00:39:53) grabbed the bucket away no neural wiring (00:39:55) gets built he's not actually making a (00:39:58) choice right so and what would happen if (00:40:01) we said oh sorry little girl we're gonna (00:40:03) use the bucket for a while okay oh you (00:40:05) don't mind do you right again he's not (00:40:08) asked to give up the bucket right if we (00:40:12) say oh I know you want to stay up a (00:40:14) little later go ahead half an hour or (00:40:16) whatever and we keep you know extending (00:40:18) the bedtime (00:40:19) when we don't set limits (00:40:21) children don't learn self-discipline (00:40:23) because they're never asked to give up (00:40:25) the thing they want for what they want (00:40:26) more but also when we are basically a (00:40:31) bully about it when we are authoritarian (00:40:34) about it when we're strict parents they (00:40:37) also don't willingly give it up because (00:40:40) the discipline isn't internal it's (00:40:42) external no go take your bath right now (00:40:45) right that's external discipline they're (00:40:47) not developing internal self-discipline (00:40:49) and then it more becomes about hiding (00:40:51) from the authority to get away with (00:40:54) things which is what happens when they (00:40:56) become teenagers exactly and you can't (00:40:58) you're no matter what age your child is (00:41:00) now you will not believe how fast the (00:41:02) teen years come and how they are out of (00:41:05) your sight and they become very good (00:41:07) liars if they need to no they don't have (00:41:10) to my kids told me pretty much what was (00:41:13) going on in their teen years because we (00:41:15) have that kind of relationship and if (00:41:17) you want your kids to want to come to (00:41:19) you in their teenagers and ask your (00:41:21) advice (00:41:22) start now by making that your (00:41:25) relationship a safe place I love that so (00:41:27) much and it reminds me of my own (00:41:28) childhood because I think my parents (00:41:30) raised me with this type of gentle (00:41:33) peaceful parenting without even really (00:41:35) knowing the term for it and I never felt (00:41:37) any time from my parents I always I (00:41:39) always went to them and kind of told (00:41:41) them and like we didn't even have a (00:41:43) curfew actually like that was just (00:41:44) something that just trusted us and when (00:41:46) I would come home late it wasn't (00:41:47) something to be afraid of it was like oh (00:41:49) my mom would say oh you were home pretty (00:41:51) late tonight maybe maybe next time you (00:41:53) should come home you know by 10 and I'm (00:41:55) like oh yeah okay all right you're right (00:41:56) sorry because we had so much trust (00:41:58) involved so that is a really interesting (00:42:01) Factor whereas other friends of mine (00:42:03) they were raised with a way where they (00:42:04) were getting in trouble all the time (00:42:05) very punitive and disciplined to where (00:42:08) when they got to that age of teenage (00:42:10) years they wanted to hide things and (00:42:12) they hid things from their parents yes (00:42:14) so something else you said that I really (00:42:16) wanted to touch on you said about (00:42:17) setting limits so an example when the 10 (00:42:19) year old you say it's time for bed is (00:42:21) there ever room for like like the art of (00:42:23) negotiation sure because that's (00:42:25) something really I'm interested in where (00:42:27) kids can grow up to learn how to (00:42:29) advocate for what they want and (00:42:31) sometimes they will change my mind and I (00:42:33) tell that to my two oldest especially (00:42:35) like look I like I'm happy to change my (00:42:38) mind but you don't need to convince me (00:42:39) why why we should change your mind you (00:42:41) don't change the mind and you do that by (00:42:44) you as the parent expressing your (00:42:47) concern and the child learning to meet (00:42:49) that concern so your child wants to stay (00:42:52) up later but you're concerned that when (00:42:54) they have stayed up later in the past in (00:42:56) the morning they don't get up in time (00:42:58) for school (00:42:59) you know you wake them up and they're (00:43:01) cranky because they didn't have enough (00:43:02) sleep so you say (00:43:04) that's your concern right and so in this (00:43:08) case there's not really something the (00:43:09) child can do to get around that concern (00:43:11) yeah but what they can do is they can (00:43:15) say I know you're concerned about that (00:43:18) mom that that I get enough sleep (00:43:21) I promise that I'm gonna set no I'm not (00:43:25) a big fan of kids using alarms I like (00:43:26) them to wake up on their own but your (00:43:28) child might well say to you I'm gonna (00:43:30) set my alarm you can be just my backup (00:43:32) but I promise I will get myself out of (00:43:34) bed your child's learning (00:43:35) self-discipline there's something they (00:43:37) want more than to stay in that bed which (00:43:39) is in the future they want to be allowed (00:43:40) to stay up a little bit later right and (00:43:43) so they would need to negotiate that (00:43:45) with you so I would just say it's always (00:43:48) a matter of them (00:43:50) telling you what they want and you (00:43:52) saying hmm I see why you want that (00:43:54) here's my concern about it yeah and then (00:43:56) meeting that concern and if they can (00:43:58) meet that concern you know they're going (00:44:00) to have a great future in whatever (00:44:02) profession they choose because they'll (00:44:04) be able to move through roadblocks by (00:44:06) addressing the concerns of those around (00:44:07) them that's a really great skill to have (00:44:10) yes absolutely that's what my my eldest (00:44:12) is like amazing at the art of (00:44:14) negotiation there will be certain times (00:44:15) where maybe he'll ask for a play date (00:44:17) and then me and like my the other mom or (00:44:20) dad and the other one like he's trying (00:44:21) to organize like a triple play date and (00:44:23) we're like oh not today I don't think so (00:44:25) because somehow he'll convince all the (00:44:27) parents that today is the best day to do (00:44:29) the play date it should happen because (00:44:31) of this and we're like oh that is true (00:44:32) this is a good idea we should do it (00:44:34) later by the end of it we all think it's (00:44:36) a great day to have a play date it's (00:44:38) just so interesting it takes some (00:44:39) flexibility from the parent but I think (00:44:42) when we're at our best and we're present (00:44:45) we can be more flexible right we don't (00:44:47) have to win we don't have to be right we (00:44:49) can be more flexible and if we do feel (00:44:52) we're being steamrolled it's also okay (00:44:54) to say no it's also okay to say I hear (00:44:56) how much you want this I'm going to say (00:44:59) no because I actually don't have the (00:45:00) bandwidth to figure this out today but I (00:45:02) hear how much you want all three of you (00:45:04) to be able to play and I'm I hear you've (00:45:07) got it all figured out and I'm willing (00:45:08) to listen tonight right now we need to (00:45:10) pick the little ones up from wherever (00:45:11) yes so you're allowed to say no also yes (00:45:14) and the difference between these (00:45:15) scenarios we just explained of the art (00:45:17) of negotiation versus your first example (00:45:19) of how about 30 minutes more all right (00:45:21) 30 minutes more all right 30 minutes (00:45:23) more all right that's the passive (00:45:24) parenting where it's just the okay I (00:45:26) don't want them to whine at me okay 30 (00:45:28) minutes more okay and then before you (00:45:29) know it things are out of control right (00:45:31) and that's not the kind of parenting I (00:45:33) advocate obviously so when people say (00:45:35) that it's permissive parenting my kids (00:45:38) always said to me well Mom (00:45:41) we have the home where the parents are (00:45:43) nicest to the kids but we also how come (00:45:45) we always have to do the extra credit (00:45:46) and we don't get to eat sugar and you (00:45:48) know we don't get to watch TV I mean we (00:45:50) had a lot of expectations in our home (00:45:52) and a lot of limits but also the most (00:45:56) um nurturing environment for them do you (00:45:59) think that it gets harder to do this to (00:46:01) be this (00:46:02) um present and able to communicate as (00:46:05) well as like that example you gave with (00:46:06) the bucket or with the kid going to bed (00:46:08) is it does it get harder the more kids (00:46:10) you have because sometimes I'm like yes (00:46:12) I want to do that when that happens next (00:46:14) time but then I'm like I'm carrying the (00:46:16) brand new baby and then my other kid is (00:46:18) asking me to go here on the swing with (00:46:20) me and like trying to be present with (00:46:22) all five is just like difficult it is (00:46:25) difficult so does it do you feel like it (00:46:27) gets harder the more kids you have and (00:46:29) what are your thoughts on that well (00:46:30) first of all yes because you've only got (00:46:33) so much bandwidth you've got the baby (00:46:35) crying and you've got the two-year-old (00:46:36) into something and you've got the (00:46:38) five-year-old asking you for something (00:46:40) you know think of like a really good (00:46:42) preschool teacher you know and she's got (00:46:45) her hand on one kid and she's talking to (00:46:48) another child and she looks up at over (00:46:49) the kid's shoulder and says Ah Eric you (00:46:52) know so she's you can do that to some (00:46:55) degree but it takes a lot of focus and (00:46:58) presence and you're worn out at the end (00:46:59) of the day and that's only three right (00:47:01) so you know if you've got five it's that (00:47:03) much harder yes on the other hand (00:47:06) I would say you get better at parenting (00:47:09) I think we are all we visit our greatest (00:47:13) Neurosis on the oldest child we visit (00:47:16) all of our hopes and fears and (00:47:18) expectations and all the places that we (00:47:20) are not fully worked out the Kinks (00:47:22) inside ourselves our own psyches that (00:47:25) gets visited on your first child usually (00:47:26) so the first child usually has a harder (00:47:28) time actually so by the time you get (00:47:30) your fifth child you're so much more (00:47:32) relaxed and your child doesn't think (00:47:35) it's an emergency life is an emergency (00:47:37) your child's like yeah mom's pretty (00:47:39) relaxed about this I think things are (00:47:41) good or you know and also they're (00:47:43) entertained by the older children (00:47:44) absolutely right they're designed to be (00:47:47) influenced by other children babies and (00:47:50) toddlers And at each stage of (00:47:52) development children are designed to be (00:47:53) influenced by kids their age and a (00:47:55) little older whereas we just seem like a (00:47:57) whole different thing to them right yeah (00:47:58) yeah you know so that's also a great (00:48:00) thing about having more kids and then (00:48:02) the final thing I would say is that when (00:48:04) you have a big family and you've (00:48:06) parented this way your children are (00:48:09) likely to be more nurturing they won't (00:48:11) be perfect any more than we are but (00:48:12) they're likely to be more nurturing and (00:48:15) big families have to depend on the (00:48:18) children to parent each other a little (00:48:19) bit it's not an appropriate role for (00:48:21) them to be the parents true they they (00:48:23) can't be they have their own (00:48:24) developmental needs but it is certainly (00:48:27) fine for the six-year-old to say to the (00:48:30) two-year-old when you know when you're (00:48:32) trying to deal with a new baby and the (00:48:34) baby's crying and the two-year-olds (00:48:36) for the six-year-old to say oh your your (00:48:40) food fell on the ground oh let me help (00:48:42) you we can do that we can fix this (00:48:44) because someone did that for the (00:48:45) six-year-old ones so I do think they (00:48:48) have (00:48:49) a much more complicated web of (00:48:52) relationships and they sometimes feel (00:48:54) like they don't get enough parental (00:48:56) attention sometimes so you have to (00:48:57) really work at that to connect with each (00:48:59) child but on the other hand they have (00:49:01) the richness of all of the other (00:49:03) siblings both the older ones and the (00:49:05) younger ones (00:49:06) um you know I was the oldest daughter (00:49:08) and we had you know my parents were (00:49:10) divorced and both had more children and (00:49:11) so I think I learned to parent partly (00:49:14) through my through being with my younger (00:49:17) sibs and that's a great gift yes I (00:49:20) definitely find that to be true for sure (00:49:22) my older ones are helping me so much (00:49:24) yeah it would be way too hard if I (00:49:27) didn't have their help they're helping (00:49:28) all the time and they want to help (00:49:29) because they see the way that their dad (00:49:32) and their mom like love on the little (00:49:33) ones and so they love loving on the (00:49:35) little ones too and they come look see (00:49:37) what see what dagne's doing and they (00:49:39) just love to play with them together and (00:49:41) be helpful so that's absolutely true and (00:49:43) I know from that description that they (00:49:46) feel loved enough because if they didn't (00:49:48) if they felt like like they weren't (00:49:50) getting what they needed or they were (00:49:51) somehow being (00:49:53) judged for their desire to be close to (00:49:56) you or to get loving from you if that (00:49:58) were happening they would not be able to (00:50:00) love on the baby (00:50:01) but they're getting the love they need (00:50:03) oh that's good to know that's really (00:50:05) helpful okay so let's get into sibling (00:50:07) rivalry a little bit what causes sibling (00:50:10) rivalry that is that is a big thing for (00:50:13) us and our family and all of my friends (00:50:15) I think it's a great segue because (00:50:17) sibling rivalry is a natural part of (00:50:22) having humans who are in competition for (00:50:24) the same scarce resource and the (00:50:26) resources in fact parental attention now (00:50:28) it may not be scarce actually there may (00:50:31) be plenty of love to go around but if we (00:50:33) are expressing that love through eye (00:50:36) contact and hugs and warm moments (00:50:39) together snuggling where they get full (00:50:41) attention that can be harder to come by (00:50:44) in a larger family or even honestly in a (00:50:47) family with two kids when I've seen so (00:50:49) many families with two children where (00:50:51) the oldest has never forgiven the (00:50:53) younger one for being born and it's (00:50:55) partly because when the baby's born the (00:50:58) older kid looks so big looks so big and (00:51:00) you think (00:51:01) you're a giant you don't need me anymore (00:51:03) right be quiet stop waking the baby be (00:51:07) nice to the baby you know we're we have (00:51:09) this attitude of (00:51:12) um (00:51:12) you need too much toward the oldest (00:51:15) child and so they don't forgive the baby (00:51:17) for being born right I think (00:51:21) we can you can't get rid of sibling (00:51:23) rivalry but you can mitigate it by (00:51:27) accepting everyone's needs even your (00:51:30) oldest sometimes needs to be babied (00:51:32) right we all sometimes need to be babied (00:51:34) even grown-ups right so if we can meet (00:51:37) their needs you can reduce the sibling (00:51:39) rivalry that's one thing another cause (00:51:42) of sibling rivalry is just difference in (00:51:44) what each person wants out of the (00:51:47) interaction and in every human (00:51:48) relationship there will be different (00:51:51) needs different wants so hopefully with (00:51:55) our partners spouses we can express what (00:51:58) we need and want without attacking them (00:52:00) you know like (00:52:01) I hate it when you've always got the (00:52:03) music blaring is sort of an attack you (00:52:06) know whereas I really love quiet I love (00:52:09) when I'm waking up in the morning to (00:52:10) have quiet and you've got the news on (00:52:12) and it just feels I I can't quite cope (00:52:14) yet that's more of a expressing my needs (00:52:17) rather than attacking my partner right (00:52:19) most of us adults don't remember that (00:52:22) there are many times we make the mistake (00:52:24) of expressing our needs as an attack so (00:52:27) we can assume children will do the same (00:52:29) thing we have to work on that we have to (00:52:31) work on modeling it and we have to help (00:52:33) our children when when one of the kids (00:52:36) says to the other (00:52:37) why are you always singing and humming I (00:52:40) just want to focus on what I'm doing and (00:52:42) we can say it's hard for you when your (00:52:45) sister is always singing and humming and (00:52:47) you love to sing at home and I love to (00:52:48) hear you hum and sing but your sister (00:52:51) really wants to focus on what she's (00:52:52) doing how can we work this out you're (00:52:54) not making anyone bad and wrong they (00:52:56) have different needs so one way to ease (00:52:59) sibling rivalry is when the children (00:53:01) know that their needs will be taken (00:53:03) seriously and that you will help them to (00:53:06) navigate that difference in needs so (00:53:09) that they can each get their needs met (00:53:10) and there are ways to do it and I've (00:53:11) seen many solutions to that particular (00:53:13) thing like on even days you can sing and (00:53:15) on odd days you can't was one family's (00:53:18) thing that they came up with and they (00:53:19) did it for years with those girls and it (00:53:21) worked for the girls the girls came up (00:53:23) with it and it worked so that's fine (00:53:24) that's hilarious and and the older one (00:53:26) who was the one who was annoyed stop (00:53:28) being so perpetually anointed her sister (00:53:30) because at least she knew that on even (00:53:32) days it was quiet or whatever yes yeah (00:53:34) okay so what about specifically when the (00:53:37) older someone can often get the blame (00:53:38) for things so let's say they're like (00:53:41) older kids because we did a couple (00:53:42) examples for like toddlers but older (00:53:44) kids that are just arguing a lot and a (00:53:45) lot of times it's instigated by the (00:53:47) older one and maybe it's a Personality (00:53:49) Clash could it sometimes be that and (00:53:52) maybe it's the competition thing or (00:53:54) modeled behavior from their parents how (00:53:57) do we navigate that when let's say a (00:53:58) specific example your older brother (00:53:59) starts attacking the younger one for who (00:54:02) knows what they took the Nerf gun they (00:54:04) took the Nerf gun or or maybe the older (00:54:07) one was was shooting the Nerf gun at the (00:54:10) younger one the younger one said stop it (00:54:12) I don't want stop it no stop stop I'm (00:54:15) not playing stop and he kept going kept (00:54:16) going until he hit him in the face and (00:54:18) it really hurt and then there's a huge (00:54:19) whale and then they attack each other (00:54:21) okay so let's use that example of the (00:54:23) Nerf gun and he can't gets it in the (00:54:25) face what does every single parent do in (00:54:27) that moment (00:54:28) they get mad at the older kids yes yeah (00:54:30) they come running into the situation (00:54:32) screening at the top of their lungs Nemo (00:54:34) they've got a crying childhood they're (00:54:36) not even taking care of they're (00:54:37) screaming at the top of their looks you (00:54:39) know better you're the Big Brother you (00:54:42) heard him say stop so what are the (00:54:44) takeaways from each child hmm takeaways (00:54:48) I think from the younger child is the (00:54:50) latter I scream the more mad the parents (00:54:51) get at the older brother yeah that's (00:54:53) also one and maybe also that the older (00:54:55) brother gets attention but even though (00:54:57) it's negative attention yeah from the (00:54:58) appearance (00:55:00) um the older one (00:55:02) oh I don't know but for the younger one (00:55:04) also that like no matter how they acted (00:55:06) in the moment it's not their fault (00:55:07) because the older brother yes good and (00:55:09) they might have been taunting the older (00:55:11) brother before this we don't know what (00:55:13) happened we can't we're not omniscient (00:55:15) yeah and even if you were watching out (00:55:17) the kitchen window and you know exactly (00:55:18) what happened in that moment you don't (00:55:20) know what happened an hour ago or (00:55:21) yesterday yes the build up to this right (00:55:23) yeah yeah (00:55:24) um and the older ones takeaway is (00:55:28) mom always takes his side yeah yeah (00:55:30) she's his faith he's he's her favorite (00:55:33) um she never understands me it wasn't my (00:55:35) fault you just wait till I get him alone (00:55:37) my whole life has been bad ever since he (00:55:40) was born and it's all his fault yeah (00:55:41) right he he's angry have we just helped (00:55:44) our children get along better in the (00:55:46) future no no and you notice what (00:55:48) happened is that we made it worse by the (00:55:51) way we came into the situation now (00:55:53) imagine that instead (00:55:55) we were had just listened to this (00:55:57) podcast and we were able to take even as (00:56:00) we're running to the sound of the (00:56:02) yelling the crying (00:56:03) we're taking a breath and we're saying (00:56:05) we're saying to ourselves (00:56:07) I can manage this it doesn't mean my (00:56:10) older child is going to be a serial (00:56:12) killer and it doesn't mean they're never (00:56:14) going to get along it's going to be okay (00:56:16) easy I don't should take anyone to the (00:56:18) hospital it's going to be you know (00:56:19) whatever we need to say to calm (00:56:21) ourselves down in that moment (00:56:22) we we come out we ignore the perpetrator (00:56:26) completely ignore the older child and go (00:56:28) immediately to the child who's crying (00:56:30) and he's like and he's got a big red (00:56:32) spot on his cheek where the Nerf gun hit (00:56:34) him and you put your arms around me say (00:56:37) oh that really hurts huh oh now the (00:56:40) older Michelle's watching this (00:56:42) and you're completely ignoring it but if (00:56:45) you're calm enough you can take this up (00:56:46) a notch you can say (00:56:48) quick (00:56:49) whatever your kid's name is Cody get an (00:56:52) ice pack yeah right if you can do that (00:56:54) if you can do it nicely yeah yeah you've (00:56:57) just given Cody the older child the (00:56:59) opportunity to come back into the (00:57:03) community of the family again really a (00:57:05) helper instead of a herder yeah right (00:57:07) he's redeemed himself but maybe you (00:57:09) can't even do that because you're just (00:57:10) mad yeah yeah so you just take care of (00:57:12) the little one and you're like oh that (00:57:14) really heard out let's go get you an ice (00:57:16) pack let's go get you a warm a wet (00:57:18) washcloth whatever and you take care of (00:57:20) him and you come and you let him tell (00:57:22) you all you're taking him away from his (00:57:23) brother you're not like making rubbing (00:57:25) the brother's nose in it you're just (00:57:27) helping the younger child calm down and (00:57:29) he tells you all about it because that's (00:57:30) part of calming down I told him to stop (00:57:32) and he wouldn't stop it and you say to (00:57:34) him it sounds like you have something (00:57:36) really yes you're right our family rule (00:57:38) is stop means stop this is a basic rule (00:57:41) in any human relationship it's the (00:57:43) foundation of all consent very important (00:57:45) that kids learn stop mean stop and it's (00:57:48) not unusual for the older sibling or the (00:57:51) younger sibling to not listen to that (00:57:53) and we need to reinforce it it doesn't (00:57:55) mean your child's going to be a bad (00:57:57) person it means we need to reinforce (00:57:59) that rule that limit but we listen to (00:58:01) the younger child and we say and you (00:58:03) said stop and he didn't stop (00:58:05) ouch that makes you so sad and mad you (00:58:08) felt so bad when he did that your heart (00:58:11) it hurts your face and it also hurts (00:58:12) your heart I think you know it sounds to (00:58:14) me like you have something you need to (00:58:15) tell your brother (00:58:17) once your child is calm you take them to (00:58:19) do it but right now you say I'll help (00:58:21) you when you're ready (00:58:23) and you say once we fix once your face (00:58:27) feels better and we take some deep (00:58:29) breaths (00:58:30) then you'll be strong and rooted in the (00:58:33) ground and you'll be able to go and tell (00:58:35) your brother what you need right so (00:58:37) we're not going to just fly off in a (00:58:39) rage to tell the brother so we've we've (00:58:41) helped him and if the child who's not (00:58:43) you know who got hurt is has a type of (00:58:46) personality that's more quiet and Inward (00:58:48) and just may never really want to like (00:58:50) say it outwardly do you do that for them (00:58:51) with them yes you do it for them and (00:58:53) with them you you help them do it but (00:58:55) right now they're her so they are (00:58:57) telling you and you say you you're (00:58:59) notice I was really putting it I was (00:59:02) saying your heart must have hurt too (00:59:03) right because yeah Joe doesn't know how (00:59:04) to say that it that was a betrayal when (00:59:06) they said stop and they got hit in the (00:59:08) face right so you say you said stop and (00:59:11) then he didn't stop right and then hit (00:59:14) you in the face you're articulating it (00:59:16) so he knows yeah what happened was wrong (00:59:19) and and I said stop and that should have (00:59:21) been respected I had a right to expect (00:59:23) to to be listened to so we're helping (00:59:26) that quiet child develop the ability to (00:59:29) stand up for himself off simply by (00:59:31) acknowledging what happened to him and (00:59:34) that now he sounds like he feels really (00:59:36) upset about it and he wants to to tell (00:59:39) us he has not he wants to because he he (00:59:41) both wants to he doesn't want to he (00:59:43) adores his big brother he idolizes him (00:59:44) he wants to play with him Big Brother (00:59:46) barely plays with him he wants to let (00:59:48) make him play with you know there's all (00:59:49) kinds of complicated feelings so I (00:59:51) wouldn't say he wants to tell him the (00:59:53) quiet child I would say it sounds like (00:59:55) you have something really important to (00:59:57) tell your brother that you didn't like (00:59:59) it when you said stop and he didn't stop (01:00:01) and he's like I didn't like it so we're (01:00:05) gonna tell your brother (01:00:07) yeah I can't and you say I will help you (01:00:10) I will help you and when he's ready (01:00:14) you might even say let's take a break (01:00:16) first so we calm down first what would (01:00:18) you like to do now maybe he plays with (01:00:20) his little figurines to calm himself (01:00:22) down and you say let's set you up with (01:00:24) your figurines you can have a few (01:00:25) minutes just to play and I'm gonna go (01:00:27) talk with your brother and you set him (01:00:30) up and you go to the brother because you (01:00:32) want to soften the brother a little bit (01:00:34) because if he sees you coming with a (01:00:36) little one he's going to think okay now (01:00:38) it comes she sides with a little one (01:00:40) right yeah so you want it you want to (01:00:42) get him set up with something so he can (01:00:43) play for a little bit and calm down (01:00:46) and and you've just given him probably (01:00:48) 15 minutes you've given him a little (01:00:49) time now if you have a baby this is a (01:00:51) little harder right because you've got (01:00:52) so many things going on but you can have (01:00:54) the baby on your hip while you do this (01:00:55) yeah and you go to the older child who (01:00:57) did this (01:00:59) and you say wow that was hard huh notice (01:01:03) I didn't say you're bad you're wrong you (01:01:05) didn't stop say that was hard now he's (01:01:08) acting like he's never seen you before (01:01:09) doing whatever he's doing he's saying (01:01:13) your brother was really crying (01:01:16) he had a red mark on his cheek you're (01:01:18) just describing what happened you're now (01:01:20) you could say you're guilting him you're (01:01:22) shaming him but notice it's a pretty (01:01:23) matter-of-fact voice but you're (01:01:24) describing what happened and you say (01:01:28) when you when you were shooting at him (01:01:30) you know our rule is that we don't shoot (01:01:32) at the face (01:01:34) right and he's like yeah you say (01:01:39) um and you know a rule is we say we we (01:01:42) stop you know he's like yeah say You (01:01:45) must have been pretty upset to keep (01:01:48) shooting (01:01:49) in that moment it must have been so hard (01:01:51) it was hard for you to stop you kept (01:01:53) shooting and you shot him in the face I (01:01:55) didn't mean to hit his face he was (01:01:57) moving (01:01:58) oh I'm glad you didn't mean to hit his (01:02:00) face you just take that face out you (01:02:02) don't say you're lying to me you say you (01:02:03) say I'm glad you didn't mean to hit his (01:02:05) face because our family rule is this (01:02:07) because you know if it hits your eye it (01:02:08) could be really serious you know that so (01:02:10) so I'm really glad you didn't mean to (01:02:12) his face and I know if he's moving is (01:02:14) hard (01:02:15) and it must have been really hard for (01:02:17) you to stop because he was saying stop (01:02:21) and it was hard for you to stop shooting (01:02:23) at him (01:02:24) and he doesn't know what to say at this (01:02:25) point because he doesn't really know why (01:02:27) he couldn't stop and you say sometimes (01:02:29) it's hard to stop when we're when we're (01:02:31) doing something that we want to do (01:02:35) it sounds like that was really hard for (01:02:37) you do you remember what happened (01:02:40) and he's like (01:02:42) yeah I mean he's still you know yeah and (01:02:45) you're you say (01:02:47) um I know you love your brother and I (01:02:49) know you must have had some other (01:02:50) feelings going on like maybe you were (01:02:52) mad at him (01:02:53) or maybe (01:02:56) I don't know what other thing there (01:02:58) could be I was trying to do something a (01:02:59) little more innocuous right yeah (01:03:01) sometimes it's like I just wanted to bug (01:03:04) him uh-huh yes maybe you were mad at him (01:03:07) because you know before he wouldn't (01:03:09) listen to you whatever (01:03:12) um and then usually as you acknowledge (01:03:16) what might be true for him there's (01:03:18) usually a point a Tipping Point where (01:03:20) instead of um (01:03:21) he goes (01:03:23) yes you know what ah you know I wanted (01:03:27) to bug him here's why he never blah he (01:03:30) always blood you know whatever it is and (01:03:32) it spills out and parents are like (01:03:35) I cannot believe this I've raised a (01:03:37) monster no this is good news that it's (01:03:39) out instead of in remember if he (01:03:41) articulates it he doesn't have to act on (01:03:43) it (01:03:44) we want to prevent this from happening (01:03:46) in the future and as he spills out all (01:03:48) the stuff you say wow wow oh I hear you (01:03:51) it's so frustrating for you when he (01:03:53) always it's so upsetting to you when he (01:03:56) never you just you don't even have to (01:03:58) agree with him you're acknowledging how (01:04:00) he feels that's totally appropriate (01:04:04) and he unloads and he unloads and he (01:04:05) unloads and you acknowledge and (01:04:07) acknowledge and acknowledge (01:04:09) and at some point he's done and he's (01:04:11) sort of shocked that you're not that (01:04:12) you're listening and that you're not (01:04:14) blaming blame not blaming him exactly (01:04:16) and he's like hopeful like maybe you do (01:04:19) understand them a little bit maybe (01:04:20) somebody is in his corner and he's like (01:04:23) yeah you're like wow maybe I I have a (01:04:26) parent who cares what matters to me (01:04:27) right even though I was terrible yeah (01:04:30) they know even though I was terrible and (01:04:32) did this thing and so he spills all this (01:04:34) to you and you're like oh oh I hear you (01:04:36) I hear you I hear you and then he comes (01:04:39) to a point where he stops and you give (01:04:41) him a hug you haven't said anything like (01:04:44) you're bad and wrong and did the bat (01:04:45) wrong thing you're you have said what (01:04:47) your family rules are right and you (01:04:49) might not even have said that yet you he (01:04:51) might have just started to offload right (01:04:52) away right (01:04:54) um so you give him a hug you're not done (01:04:57) yet but you're giving him a hug and you (01:04:58) say I am so sorry this has been so hard (01:05:01) for you I want you to know that you (01:05:03) don't have to keep this all inside when (01:05:06) you feel like this about your brother (01:05:07) you can always come and tell me and I (01:05:09) will always understand sometimes it's (01:05:11) hard to be the big brother right you're (01:05:13) just you're you're validating (01:05:16) everything and you're making your (01:05:18) relationship safe for him to come to you (01:05:20) for help and articulate so he doesn't (01:05:21) have to act it out on his brother right (01:05:23) I just wanted to annoy him by shooting (01:05:25) him when he said no right yeah and then (01:05:27) you so you've given him a hug you've (01:05:29) said this and he's like what I have seen (01:05:31) happen is I I remember with my own son (01:05:34) when he was little and his sister was (01:05:36) born and I would say it's so hard for (01:05:39) you when she's on my lap and nursing all (01:05:41) the time and you just want me to come (01:05:43) and help you with your trains or (01:05:44) whatever he would he would he would (01:05:46) start from a place of like (01:05:48) I hate her and then he would (01:05:51) you know I would give him the hug and he (01:05:53) would just sort of melt in my arms just (01:05:55) melt and then he wouldn't necessarily (01:05:57) say anything but he would go over to her (01:05:59) maybe not even right then maybe he'd go (01:06:01) play with his trains but a half an hour (01:06:03) later I'd see him go over to where she (01:06:05) was sleeping and pet her gently (01:06:08) when we allow all of the ugly feelings (01:06:12) ugly in quotes to come out (01:06:14) then all the love that's in there can (01:06:16) has room to surface right and the child (01:06:19) can feel it if they've got all that ugly (01:06:21) stuff inside and no safe place to take (01:06:23) it that's gonna control their behavior (01:06:26) so notice there's still one piece we (01:06:28) haven't done (01:06:29) we hugged him and he's melted in our (01:06:33) arms (01:06:34) and he's taking a deep breath like yes I (01:06:36) have my parent and they understand and (01:06:38) then we say (01:06:40) I I you reaffirm that you understand and (01:06:43) you say and when someone says no we have (01:06:47) to stop what we're doing no means no you (01:06:51) know that's our that's one of our most (01:06:53) important family Rules and he's like I (01:06:56) know and you say (01:06:58) I know you know (01:06:59) and sometimes in the future it's still (01:07:01) going to be hard for you (01:07:03) next time this happens that you feel (01:07:05) like that he says stop and you feel like (01:07:07) it's too hard to stop what could you do (01:07:09) instead (01:07:10) and then you help him come up with a (01:07:12) scenario like you might even say here (01:07:14) here's the here's the teddy bear the (01:07:16) teddy bear is is your brother and it's (01:07:18) saying no no and you've got the Nerf gun (01:07:21) and you want to keep shooting it what do (01:07:23) you do (01:07:24) and he maybe he says I could turn and (01:07:27) shoot it over there you say yes because (01:07:29) it's always easier to redirect the (01:07:31) impulse than to stop an Impulse always (01:07:33) right so that's an example of what he (01:07:35) might do or he might say I could shoot (01:07:36) in the air or he might say I could say (01:07:39) to him (01:07:41) and you might come up with something (01:07:42) mean to say to his brother like you're (01:07:44) such a coward and at that point let's (01:07:46) say it's a bad thing he comes up with (01:07:47) you say hmm well that would make you not (01:07:51) not make you stop shooting he said yeah (01:07:53) but I would still get to say you know (01:07:54) can you say so those mean feelings would (01:07:56) still come out huh (01:07:58) I wonder what would happen then this is (01:08:01) how we help children develop good (01:08:02) judgment you could do that I wonder what (01:08:04) would happen then yeah it would still be (01:08:06) an attack it would still be hurtful to (01:08:07) the brother hmm (01:08:09) and is that what you would really want (01:08:11) to do (01:08:12) no okay so let's come up with something (01:08:15) different maybe you're going to move the (01:08:16) Nerf gun but the point is and you can (01:08:18) come and what if you still have those (01:08:20) mean feelings inside you what are you (01:08:21) going to do then you can come and talk (01:08:23) to me come and talk to me and or scream (01:08:26) Mom I need your help you know and I will (01:08:30) if I can grab the baby and come I can't (01:08:32) always come but you sometimes I'll say (01:08:33) come to me and you and you I will always (01:08:36) be there as your Lifeline right (01:08:38) I just think we (01:08:40) um (01:08:41) we ignore these opportunities to help (01:08:43) our children repeat this in the future (01:08:46) if you did this you're not going to have (01:08:48) that Nerf gun incident again right and (01:08:50) parents I know I know the parents (01:08:52) listening and watching are going to say (01:08:54) I don't have time for that yeah I I are (01:08:56) you kidding me I know I was just gonna (01:08:58) bring that up the answer is it takes (01:09:00) three months the answer is that I've (01:09:02) been doing this for many years and I've (01:09:03) watched many thousands of parents do (01:09:05) this and it gets better every day (01:09:08) because as you rewire your own brain (01:09:10) they're rewiring their brains and they (01:09:12) become more able to manage themselves (01:09:14) right but also (01:09:16) over a three-month period that's a very (01:09:19) short time in a child's life even a 10 (01:09:20) year olds they learn how to do something (01:09:23) different and you'll start to hear (01:09:26) something where the kid will say stop (01:09:28) and the other kid will say oh I'm not (01:09:30) going to play with you anymore and toss (01:09:32) down the Nerf gun and go and the younger (01:09:34) will come running and say he won't play (01:09:36) with me and you can say oh you're so (01:09:37) disappointed but you know what he didn't (01:09:39) do he didn't shoot it at you anymore I (01:09:40) heard you say stop and he stopped good (01:09:42) for you for sticking up for yourself (01:09:43) give me five right yeah I love the way (01:09:45) that you broke that down that's so so (01:09:48) helpful and it's applicable to (01:09:50) everything with siblings and I think for (01:09:53) anyone listening who's like okay I don't (01:09:54) have time for this or no that's coddling (01:09:57) the kid that's gonna spend too much time (01:09:58) coddling and then you're gonna raise (01:10:00) whatever coddling part I don't know (01:10:02) because I don't see how that's coddling (01:10:04) we didn't shame and blame the older (01:10:06) child right instead we said you know the (01:10:08) rule yes and it sounds like it was (01:10:10) really hard for you and you can't break (01:10:11) that rule so what are we going to do (01:10:13) differently next time we taught the (01:10:15) child how to manage themselves so true (01:10:17) that's what we want to be different do (01:10:18) we need to make him wrong and bad to do (01:10:21) that absolutely is that if you're at (01:10:23) your workplace and you have a boss and (01:10:25) you mess up the equivalent like you knew (01:10:28) you shouldn't have done that thing point (01:10:30) the Nerf gun whatever it is in your (01:10:31) office and you did it anyway and your (01:10:34) boss comes to you and says shames and (01:10:36) blames you is that going to make you do (01:10:37) a better job next time no when we have (01:10:39) shame and blame inside us we act badly (01:10:42) yes and your son will also or daughter (01:10:44) will also act badly if there's shame and (01:10:46) blame him I know and I think when people (01:10:48) try to say that whatever you just (01:10:51) described it's coddling or it's whatever (01:10:53) the word that they attach to it they (01:10:55) have this fear that they're going to (01:10:56) grow up and be this like I don't know (01:10:58) entitled person but I think what they're (01:11:00) forgetting is that when when we do the (01:11:01) parenting the strict parenting the (01:11:03) example you gave where you just come (01:11:04) attack shut down the emotions then we (01:11:06) have so this is why we have so many (01:11:08) adults walking around that don't know (01:11:09) how to regulate their emotions yes I (01:11:11) don't know how to how to express even (01:11:12) what they're feeling especially boys but (01:11:14) it could be boys or girls yeah but a lot (01:11:16) of times boys grow up and and then they (01:11:18) get in a relationship and the partner's (01:11:20) like why can't you communicate with me (01:11:22) like let's talk and they're like I I (01:11:24) don't know even how to say it right (01:11:27) because of what how they're being raised (01:11:29) was yeah yeah we we don't want to raise (01:11:32) people who never get angry that would be (01:11:33) impossible we want to raise people who (01:11:36) notice when they're getting angry back (01:11:38) when it's annoyance or frustration (01:11:40) before it gets to be rage right we want (01:11:43) to help us help our children notice and (01:11:46) put it into words and Advance their own (01:11:49) needs in a respectful way that doesn't (01:11:53) dump on other people right every you (01:11:56) know we girls and boys we want them to (01:11:58) stick up for what they want and need in (01:12:00) a way that is appropriate yeah yeah and (01:12:03) healthy communication and yet for some (01:12:05) reason I think people assume that as (01:12:07) adults we're supposed to be this like (01:12:08) stoic like we don't have we don't have (01:12:10) to express ourselves in a certain way (01:12:12) that makes us strong but really that (01:12:14) doesn't a lot of times that creates so (01:12:16) much havoc in actual relationships (01:12:18) because then they don't know how to (01:12:19) communicate well because problems always (01:12:20) arrives there are going to be problems (01:12:22) in life and we need to be able to (01:12:24) communicate well to get through them (01:12:25) healthfully yeah yeah wow that's amazing (01:12:28) and so is there a point is there any (01:12:30) kind of requirement in that scenario (01:12:33) where the older child has to say sorry (01:12:35) yes I'm so glad that you mentioned that (01:12:37) because we didn't get to that so once (01:12:39) you've gone through this with your child (01:12:41) you then say you know (01:12:43) your brother (01:12:45) he he had this big red mark on his cheek (01:12:47) it's probably faded now he's fine (01:12:48) sweetheart you know you make sure to say (01:12:50) that and you touch your child you know (01:12:51) you're connecting and you say (01:12:54) and his heart was hurt that he said stop (01:12:56) and you didn't stop you didn't hear him (01:12:58) you didn't respond to what he asked and (01:13:00) he felt a little betrayed I think that (01:13:02) his brother who loves him his big (01:13:05) brother (01:13:06) um didn't listen and and did something (01:13:08) that hurt him he he needs to be able to (01:13:11) tell you that and he's like (01:13:13) you know but you've just understood him (01:13:15) and he knows what he did was not okay (01:13:16) and you say let's go find your brother (01:13:18) and by now his brother is happily (01:13:20) playing with whatever and you go over (01:13:23) and you you touch both children you (01:13:25) don't just ditch your older child (01:13:27) because he'll feel like okay she (01:13:29) listened to me but now she's on his side (01:13:31) again right you keep touching him and (01:13:33) you also are touching your younger child (01:13:34) and you say we have two boys here who (01:13:38) love each other so much two brothers (01:13:40) here love each other so much and (01:13:42) sometimes they have to work things out (01:13:44) sometimes they're hurt feelings (01:13:46) sometimes they're hurt bodies you have (01:13:48) something you want to tell your brother (01:13:49) and maybe he's the quiet kid who (01:13:51) wouldn't tell his brother and you say do (01:13:53) you remember if you're going to tell (01:13:54) your brother and he's like (01:13:56) don't hurt me you know he doesn't know (01:13:59) what to say and you say don't hurt you (01:14:01) and also when you say stop you want him (01:14:03) to hear you right so you help him do it (01:14:05) and he says yeah when I say stop stop (01:14:08) right stop you might even say stop you (01:14:11) know he might have a stop you know he (01:14:13) might be not sure how tough to be in (01:14:16) this you know and the older child's like (01:14:18) okay right and you say so we need to (01:14:22) make things better we need to make a (01:14:24) repair you're not going to mandate (01:14:27) okay you lose your screen time for a (01:14:30) week or whatever you're not going to do (01:14:31) that you're going to say to your to the (01:14:33) child (01:14:34) I wonder what you could do to make (01:14:36) things better with your brother (01:14:39) and you know if if there's still a red (01:14:42) mark on his cheek he could do something (01:14:43) like that and and he can also say (01:14:47) I mean maybe he won't have any ideas if (01:14:49) you if you're just beginning this he (01:14:51) wouldn't have any ideas if you've done (01:14:52) this a few times he's going to say we (01:14:55) could play Nerf guns and we could (01:14:56) practice you saying stop and I will (01:14:58) always stop which would be an amazing (01:15:00) repair a corrective repair where the (01:15:02) younger child would feel heard that'd be (01:15:04) great if that was what they decided or (01:15:06) he could say I would help you with the (01:15:08) thing you wanted help with teaching you (01:15:11) to throw a ball or whatever it was he (01:15:12) was gonna you know that he wanted I'd (01:15:14) let you play with me while I do XYZ (01:15:16) could be anything (01:15:17) if both kids feel okay about it your job (01:15:20) as the parent is to accept it but if if (01:15:23) it's something that you think is really (01:15:24) not very much of a repair like like say (01:15:28) he's like I'm sorry yeah you could say (01:15:32) then first of all you make a mental note (01:15:34) I did not do enough work with this child (01:15:36) he's not actually expressing sorryness (01:15:38) so I need to listen to him more it's a (01:15:40) it's a big chip on the shoulder he's (01:15:42) carrying around we need to melt that a (01:15:44) little bit over time so is that I'm (01:15:45) guessing that's not a place to be like (01:15:47) well that's not a good enough sorry oh I (01:15:49) would ask I would ask the other child I (01:15:51) would say so your brother said he was (01:15:53) sorry (01:15:54) did you feel like that makes things (01:15:57) better (01:15:58) and (01:15:59) many children will say no he said sorry (01:16:02) right many children will say that some (01:16:04) kids would be like yeah yeah and you (01:16:07) could say it sounds like you don't (01:16:08) really think that made things better if (01:16:10) he's just sort of hesitating and you can (01:16:12) and you can say you can say that to your (01:16:14) brother we're always coaching them to (01:16:15) speak for themselves if they can and (01:16:17) when they can't we step in so he might (01:16:19) say the younger child might say you're (01:16:21) not really sorry and and the older child (01:16:24) looks and you say and you you remember (01:16:27) you're touching both you might even put (01:16:28) your arm around and give them a hug even (01:16:29) if you have to let go of the little one (01:16:30) for a minute and you're and you say it's (01:16:33) hard to apologize it's hard to apologize (01:16:36) and (01:16:38) your brother loves you and I know you (01:16:40) love him and even though that was really (01:16:41) hard and you feel bad about it what (01:16:43) happened (01:16:44) it's you need to make it better is that (01:16:47) something you can do right now or do you (01:16:49) want to wait until like my daughter used (01:16:51) to say to me I can't apologize when I'm (01:16:53) mad you're asking me to lie but I can do (01:16:56) it later and that was our deal that she (01:16:58) was allowed to do it when she was ready (01:16:59) as long as it was before the next meal (01:17:01) yeah right they can't go to bed I mean (01:17:03) if there's if it's gonna be before (01:17:04) breakfast it's like they have to do it (01:17:06) before bedtime right yeah but but maybe (01:17:09) he's like all right I'm sorry and you (01:17:12) can say does that feel better now okay (01:17:13) hug it out yeah and after after they (01:17:16) both feel like it's a decent enough (01:17:19) um repair then you can say okay you (01:17:21) ready to hug it out because I find that (01:17:23) when kids hug it out they always end up (01:17:25) laughing yes oh that's so good and do (01:17:28) you ever find that there's a place to (01:17:30) say oh go to your rooms together and (01:17:31) work it out on your own (01:17:33) um I think that we (01:17:37) um were told to do that instead of (01:17:39) intervening my mom told me yeah I've (01:17:41) even talked about this on this podcast (01:17:43) that sometimes that that is what I do (01:17:44) and I'm like you know what you guys work (01:17:46) it out together so so we what happened (01:17:49) is that um somewhere along the line I (01:17:51) think (01:17:52) um we were told that it when we (01:17:54) intervene by coming in and screaming and (01:17:56) saying it's all your fault and making (01:17:58) one of the kids wrong it worsensed (01:18:00) sibling rivalry no question we know that (01:18:02) from the research so parents were (01:18:04) advised to let the kids Work It Out (01:18:05) themselves and what we found out is that (01:18:08) if the parents just like she's at the (01:18:11) kitchen sink or she's working at her (01:18:12) computer and the kids are screaming at (01:18:14) each other and working it out themselves (01:18:16) and they did a lot of filming of this (01:18:19) and what they learned is that this the (01:18:22) child who is the strongest child wins it (01:18:24) is usually the older child but sometimes (01:18:26) it's a younger child sometimes it's the (01:18:29) one who's willing to make the most noise (01:18:30) so that could be a younger child to (01:18:32) finally get the parent involved right (01:18:34) but usually what happens is if the (01:18:36) parent is I'm not going to get involved (01:18:38) I'm letting them work it out they're (01:18:39) going to learn how to do this what they (01:18:41) learn is not you know we just taught (01:18:43) them so many skills right no that's not (01:18:46) what they're learning they're learning (01:18:47) if they bully the other child they win (01:18:50) and that's what they do so we're (01:18:51) teaching bullying and when you ask the (01:18:54) children you've been filming this right (01:18:55) you're the researcher you ask the (01:18:57) children they'll say (01:19:00) mom and dad think it's okay that he (01:19:02) treats me that way and threatens to hit (01:19:03) me because she was right there at her (01:19:05) computer and she didn't intervene now (01:19:06) maybe you didn't hear it no but they (01:19:08) take it if you're in the house it's a (01:19:10) tacit endorsement of the behavior yes so (01:19:12) that's a terrible thing to teach them (01:19:13) yes now I will say it's not always a (01:19:17) terrible thing to have them work it out (01:19:18) but first we have to do what I've been (01:19:20) describing yeah first we have to teach (01:19:21) them the skills then (01:19:24) after we've taught them the skills if (01:19:26) let's say they're roughly equal in power (01:19:29) you know you've got a nine-year-old and (01:19:31) 11 year old a nine year old is pretty (01:19:32) good at sticking up for herself let's (01:19:33) say yeah um and they're fighting about I (01:19:37) don't know (01:19:38) um which movie to watch you do not have (01:19:41) to now if if they've if they know that (01:19:44) basically they have the skills you do (01:19:46) not have to help them figure out which (01:19:47) movie to watch you can say okay well you (01:19:51) know Saturday night is movie night and (01:19:52) you can watch you know any of the movies (01:19:53) on this list or whatever they know what (01:19:55) they can choose from (01:19:57) um and you two get to decide (01:20:00) um and I hear that you want to watch (01:20:02) this movie and she wants to watch and (01:20:03) you want to watch this movie that's a (01:20:05) hard decision maybe one of you will (01:20:08) convince the other or maybe you'll (01:20:09) decide on a third movie you want to (01:20:11) watch but that's up to the two of you of (01:20:13) course go off and you do not need to be (01:20:15) in the middle of that that's good for (01:20:16) them to get the skills right yeah I feel (01:20:19) like we've done like a little bit of (01:20:20) half and half of what you're talking (01:20:21) about like those that example you gave (01:20:23) of connecting them like we have (01:20:25) foundational principles of that and then (01:20:26) there are certain times when if we are (01:20:28) too busy that is part of it or if it's (01:20:31) like feels sometimes like oh maybe (01:20:33) sometimes there's a fear I think of oh (01:20:36) if I give the the one who's screaming (01:20:37) too much attention that they're going to (01:20:39) want to scream more like that that that (01:20:41) oh they're screaming louder and louder (01:20:43) to her now I can't tell the difference (01:20:44) between a Nerf gun in the face or the (01:20:47) child's actually falling off a cliff you (01:20:49) know what I'm saying and and so it (01:20:50) there's that that type of fear as well (01:20:52) sometimes I think with parents are like (01:20:53) okay I think I need to let them work it (01:20:55) out themselves and not be the one that's (01:20:57) but not not picking sides but your (01:21:00) example doesn't pick sides yes so you're (01:21:02) never picking sides yeah with my example (01:21:04) I think that's the most important thing (01:21:05) because when we pick sides yeah even if (01:21:08) we don't mean to be picking sides when (01:21:10) they experience it as picking sides the (01:21:13) one who experiences not being picked (01:21:16) always feels like they're not as loved (01:21:17) and I do this I do this in front of (01:21:20) audiences I'll bring up two people from (01:21:21) the audience and I have them fight with (01:21:23) each other as siblings people who don't (01:21:24) know each other yeah yeah and then I (01:21:26) intervene in different in both ways and (01:21:28) demonstrate for the audience so when I (01:21:29) intervene as making one person bad and (01:21:32) wrong they always say the same thing (01:21:34) they say you don't love me as much and (01:21:37) the other one is like I won I won and (01:21:40) not only that they'll sometimes say and (01:21:42) this is borne out by the research (01:21:44) I have to keep my sibling down I have to (01:21:47) keep (01:21:48) complaining about how my sibling does (01:21:50) these things and and crying and whining (01:21:53) and escalate my upset to show how my (01:21:56) sibling is bad and wrong because I like (01:21:58) to be the favorite and this makes me the (01:21:59) favorite who always wins or maybe they (01:22:02) can't even articulate that but that is (01:22:04) kind of the underlying the pin so it (01:22:06) just shows how important it is to not (01:22:08) pick sides it always makes the sibling (01:22:11) rivalry worse so when you said what (01:22:13) causes sibling rivalry and I said well (01:22:15) competing for scarce resources (01:22:17) difference in needs the third reason is (01:22:18) the parents the parents create the (01:22:20) sibling rivalry by picking sides oh that (01:22:22) is so so helpful do you have any other (01:22:24) tips then for sibling rivalry as we're (01:22:27) listening in this is there any other (01:22:28) important takeaways yes the research I (01:22:30) feel like I have a whole book on it I do (01:22:31) have a whole book on it peaceful parent (01:22:33) happy siblings how to stop the fighting (01:22:35) and raise friends for life that's the (01:22:37) book but I will say the research is very (01:22:39) clear that I as the parent influence the (01:22:43) sibling relationship not just by the way (01:22:44) I discipline we talked about that (01:22:46) research but also by my closeness with (01:22:48) each (01:22:49) when each child feels like yeah my mom (01:22:52) my dad they're in my corner they adore (01:22:55) me no matter how much my siblings get (01:22:59) there's enough for me more than enough (01:23:01) for me when your child feels that why (01:23:03) would they feel sibling rivalry right (01:23:05) and I think that's a tall order for (01:23:07) parents right but we want each of our (01:23:09) children to feel that way we want to (01:23:11) find I once talked to a man who had had (01:23:14) 10 children in his family and I said how (01:23:17) did you feel like did you feel like (01:23:19) there was enough love to go around and (01:23:20) he said well there were certainly times (01:23:22) when my mom was busy with the other kids (01:23:24) but she always found time to connect (01:23:27) with me every single day she would do (01:23:28) something she would like come over and (01:23:31) and put her arm around me and say hey (01:23:33) come here to the window for a minute and (01:23:34) look out of the stars together or you (01:23:37) know she would you know at the dinner (01:23:38) table she would give me she would say I (01:23:41) know you love mashed potatoes I'm going (01:23:42) to give you a little extra and the other (01:23:43) kids would be like I want extra to say (01:23:44) there's plenty of mashed potatoes for (01:23:46) everybody give me your plates you know (01:23:47) so I think that attitude of there's more (01:23:52) than enough love to go around and I'm (01:23:53) gonna find Opportunities to just just to (01:23:57) walk by my kid when they're at the easel (01:23:59) and say oh you're using a lot of red (01:24:00) today I see you're acknowledging your (01:24:03) child because I think the danger when (01:24:05) you have a lot of kids is that they (01:24:06) don't feel seen so just come and look at (01:24:09) the stars with me or I see you're using (01:24:11) a lot of red or I know you love mashed (01:24:13) potatoes you're seeing who your child is (01:24:15) and I think that's what matters and when (01:24:18) children feel seen they don't have to (01:24:20) Elbow other people out of the way to get (01:24:22) seen oh so good this is so inspiring and (01:24:25) I know that Andrea are going to go back (01:24:26) and re-listen to this for sure together (01:24:29) we find it really helpful to like get (01:24:31) that specific scenario advice and that's (01:24:33) you're so good at that so I I want to (01:24:36) move on to kind of the last final piece (01:24:38) of like an important part I think for (01:24:40) this conversation is you have an article (01:24:42) on your website about the secret to (01:24:43) saying no and why what is the deal with (01:24:46) that like why is it I can't get my child (01:24:48) to listen my no is not my no I have to (01:24:51) resort to counting to One Two Three or (01:24:53) else or threats or what else so let's (01:24:55) let's say you talk about that we're back (01:24:57) to setting limits and I think think that (01:24:59) so often parents who are drawn to this (01:25:01) kind of parenting aren't very good at (01:25:03) setting limits they don't know how to do (01:25:05) it and they are afraid to do it so I (01:25:08) think it all starts as it always does (01:25:11) inside us we have to look at (01:25:14) well what's keeping me from saying no (01:25:17) what am I afraid of well I'm afraid my (01:25:19) child will be mad at me (01:25:21) like my parents were always ready to (01:25:23) withdraw their love so maybe my child (01:25:25) will withdraw their love I mean that (01:25:26) happens for a lot of parents and I think (01:25:29) we need to take that deep breath and we (01:25:32) need to re-parent ourselves we need to (01:25:34) say it's okay for you to yourself it's (01:25:37) okay for you to set your limits to say (01:25:41) no your child loves you they know you're (01:25:44) the parent they're not going anywhere (01:25:46) parents are worried about their (01:25:49) children's lack of affection you know (01:25:50) will not be affectionate but as long as (01:25:52) you work on that Bond as long as (01:25:54) everything's through the frame of we can (01:25:56) be closer you know we can be connected (01:25:58) you can still say no in that context (01:26:00) right I mean let's say again we'll take (01:26:03) it into another relationship let's say (01:26:05) you and your partner have a difference (01:26:07) of opinion because your partner wants (01:26:08) you to be you know wants you to say yes (01:26:11) to something that you really don't feel (01:26:12) like you can say yes to you're allowed (01:26:14) to say no and you can still be just as (01:26:16) close to your partner right we we know (01:26:18) instinctively if you have a good (01:26:20) relationship you know they're like like (01:26:23) you know my husband loves to work in the (01:26:26) tool shop with his power tools I have (01:26:28) zero interest in being in the garage (01:26:30) with the power tools and but I will go (01:26:32) out and I'll admire what he does he (01:26:33) doesn't need to show me how to use his (01:26:35) circular saw I have no interest right he (01:26:37) was originally going let me show you how (01:26:38) to use a circular saw and I was like I (01:26:40) know you love it so much and I'm not (01:26:42) going to do that right I'll I'll come in (01:26:44) and also I never learned to play tennis (01:26:46) which he loves so I'm allowed to say no (01:26:48) to him right and we can still have a (01:26:50) good relationship we can go hiking (01:26:51) together we can share other things (01:26:54) together not those two things he loves (01:26:56) right as an example well with my child I (01:26:59) can say no to things my child wants and (01:27:01) we can still have a close relationship I (01:27:03) think that's the internal work we have (01:27:05) to do to say we can do that that's the (01:27:06) first thing what people say no okay and (01:27:09) there's there's also I think another (01:27:10) fear too of when you go into this type (01:27:12) of parenting like okay the goal is no (01:27:14) screaming no like outbursts and so I (01:27:17) gotta say yes so there's not the (01:27:18) Outburst all right wait a minute we're (01:27:20) the ones who aren't supposed to scream (01:27:21) it's not that the child's not allowed to (01:27:22) swim yeah or not we we when we scream (01:27:26) we're making the child unsafe so their (01:27:28) brain and nervous system become reactive (01:27:30) right we don't want that and when we (01:27:32) scream we're teaching them that that's a (01:27:34) good way to solve problems if that's (01:27:35) what adults do to solve problems we (01:27:36) don't want that is the child not allowed (01:27:39) to scream of course the child's allowed (01:27:40) to scream your child has an immature (01:27:42) brain and everything's an emergency to (01:27:44) them when someone takes their bucket or (01:27:46) whatever it's an emergency when you say (01:27:47) no cookie before dinner it's an (01:27:49) emergency to them right they're going to (01:27:51) scream and parents will say I don't know (01:27:53) why he does that I never hit him why is (01:27:56) he hitting his little sister because (01:27:57) it's an emergency to him that his little (01:27:59) sister took his toy right because his (01:28:01) brain is still developing exactly (01:28:02) exactly so there's nothing (01:28:05) when I say peaceful I'm describing your (01:28:08) own heart your child is not going to be (01:28:10) peaceful your child it's peaceful parent (01:28:12) happy kid yeah right the child is going (01:28:15) to end up happy because they're going to (01:28:17) be emotionally healthy they're allowed (01:28:19) to scream that's not Behavior they're (01:28:20) not allowed to hit they're allowed to (01:28:22) say they're not allowed to throw their (01:28:23) juice up in your face they're they might (01:28:25) do it when I say they're not allowed to (01:28:27) you want it to not repeat right it's (01:28:29) like whoa whoa ouch (01:28:31) you threw your cup you were so mad at me (01:28:34) right no throwing you can tell me no (01:28:37) mommy you know whatever right you help (01:28:40) them with the words so they don't have (01:28:41) to throw the cup but they will always (01:28:43) start out screaming and when a child (01:28:45) screams we need to listen to what why do (01:28:48) they need to escalate to screaming you (01:28:50) know kids go you've probably noticed (01:28:51) this kids go through the stage at around (01:28:53) 12 months 13 months where they can't put (01:28:56) much into words almost nothing but they (01:28:58) desperately want some they reach for (01:29:01) something on the counter they want their (01:29:02) juice cup it's on the counter and (01:29:04) they're like reaching for it right and (01:29:06) if they think no help is forthcoming (01:29:08) they will escalate and be screaming in (01:29:11) the most unbearable high-pitched whale (01:29:12) like that and the more they learn that (01:29:15) you say oh that's your juice cup you (01:29:18) don't have to scream you can say cup (01:29:20) please here's your cup sweetie right and (01:29:23) your child learns over time they learn (01:29:25) to say cup please and not scream right (01:29:27) that's how we stop our kid from (01:29:28) screaming we help them see how to (01:29:30) advance their needs in a different way (01:29:32) period so screaming is natural for kids (01:29:36) it's often they're not allowed to scream (01:29:38) it's that our screaming is (01:29:39) counterproductive yes so you said how do (01:29:42) you say no I say you start inside (01:29:43) yourself to look at what you're afraid (01:29:45) of (01:29:46) and then you get clarity about what (01:29:48) matters to you and like no (01:29:51) um you know I always always used to say (01:29:53) bedtime is bedtime we're not navigating (01:29:54) a new bedtime every night it's like this (01:29:57) is what we expect this is the routine (01:29:59) when you have routines in your family (01:30:01) kids stop challenging they don't have to (01:30:03) fight with you about brushing teeth (01:30:04) because that's the routine and they may (01:30:06) not like it no one likes to brush their (01:30:08) teeth when they're you know no one (01:30:09) probably likes to brush their teeth I (01:30:11) mean maybe by adulthood but the point is (01:30:13) if it's part of the routine they won't (01:30:15) fight you about it every night I've (01:30:16) definitely found that to be true as soon (01:30:18) as we implemented this like amazing (01:30:19) chore chart responsibility chart they (01:30:21) knew exactly what was coming every day (01:30:23) it no longer became a fight yeah it used (01:30:26) to be like they were at the will of us (01:30:27) like oh what's happening next what do we (01:30:29) have to do next and then we're like oh (01:30:30) my gosh we need a reboot they're at an (01:30:32) age now where they can do schedules we (01:30:34) wrote it all down got them their own (01:30:35) chore charts with their own names on it (01:30:37) and now they know what's coming and they (01:30:39) do not argue about it they go okay yep (01:30:41) time to do this time to this because (01:30:42) it's like learning responsibility yeah (01:30:44) so once you have that Clarity inside (01:30:45) yourself about what you're gonna expect (01:30:47) then you just say when they say but I (01:30:52) want that cookie before and you say no (01:30:54) no cookies before dinner but you also (01:30:56) say You must be so hungry it's hard to (01:30:59) wait for dinner you know what I've got a (01:31:01) carrot stick no no carrot I want a (01:31:04) cookie (01:31:07) you have a choice carrot or milk you (01:31:09) could have a glass of milk whatever (01:31:10) something that will give them maybe they (01:31:12) don't drink milk but something that will (01:31:13) give them a little a little um Choice (01:31:16) yes exactly a little choice and fill (01:31:18) their belly up a little bit (01:31:20) um so that they can wait for dinner and (01:31:23) you can still hold your no and let's say (01:31:25) your child throws themselves down on the (01:31:27) floor and screams it probably wasn't (01:31:29) about the cookie it was probably that (01:31:31) they had a hard long day and they're (01:31:33) little and they just need to let out (01:31:36) some of this emotion and you say and (01:31:38) this is your busy time of day right and (01:31:40) you've got everybody's you know that's (01:31:42) why they call it arsenic hour right (01:31:44) um and you you've got you know you might (01:31:46) turn off what's on the stove for a (01:31:48) moment well you go down on the floor and (01:31:50) you say oh it's so hard for you when you (01:31:52) want a cookie and you can't have one and (01:31:54) you're so hungry before dinner it's okay (01:31:57) to cry and some parents think that's (01:31:59) coddling them giving in but what's that (01:32:01) child supposed to do with all those (01:32:02) feelings right oh my gosh I know this is (01:32:05) like the most the biggest piece to me (01:32:06) when people people think that that's (01:32:07) coddling I'm like in any adult (01:32:09) relationship just having someone (01:32:10) acknowledge your feelings no matter what (01:32:12) the feelings are makes it better yeah it (01:32:14) just does and that's for kids too yeah (01:32:17) and if you're having a hard time as an (01:32:19) adult let's say something happens and (01:32:22) you're upset about it and you (01:32:26) burst into tears maybe you even throw (01:32:29) your glass you know whatever you're so (01:32:31) upset that would be a pretty extreme (01:32:32) reaction if something just happened yeah (01:32:34) if the other adult in the room said you (01:32:37) go to your room and calm down and you (01:32:39) know when you can behave yourself you (01:32:40) know or what is wrong with you yes yes (01:32:43) you're being ridiculous like all those (01:32:45) things this would only be in response to (01:32:46) something really big obviously but even (01:32:48) bursting into tears that something (01:32:50) happened that is of magnitude to you and (01:32:53) when you feel understood (01:32:54) you will respond differently so that (01:32:57) toddler who's crying on the floor you (01:33:00) know the tears have stress hormones (01:33:02) ex some of the stress of the day is (01:33:05) coming out in the tears and actually (01:33:07) being expelled from the body and after (01:33:09) that good cry (01:33:11) that child is going to feel better (01:33:12) always yeah yeah as we all do after a (01:33:15) good cry yes and especially if someone's (01:33:17) there just like letting you feel your (01:33:19) feelings and acknowledging them yes yes (01:33:20) if you're if your child's on the floor (01:33:22) and you're like (01:33:23) and you that they're not going to feel (01:33:25) better because no one's holding the (01:33:27) space for them to have the feelings (01:33:28) they're just feeling shamed and they're (01:33:30) gonna like (01:33:31) pull themselves to sitting and be trying (01:33:33) not to cry because mommy's making that (01:33:35) sound cheat that she doesn't like me (01:33:37) when I do this whereas if you can say (01:33:38) you're having such a hard time I do need (01:33:41) to you know stir the vegetables yeah but (01:33:43) I'll come back and check on you in just (01:33:44) a minute yeah uh you know then your (01:33:46) child knows it's okay for them to cry (01:33:48) and you're coming back and forth yep and (01:33:50) so many of these examples go back to (01:33:51) just like being in a rush in life too (01:33:53) like you're stressed you're in a rush (01:33:55) and like you said like if you have (01:33:56) multiple kids so an earlier example you (01:33:59) gave were like oh the mom took the kid (01:34:01) outside and locked the door it reminds (01:34:03) me of like maybe another scenario that (01:34:04) could happen where maybe the mom's (01:34:06) really busy and they're cooking and they (01:34:09) have a newborn that's maybe crying and (01:34:11) trying to attend to both those things (01:34:12) and then you have two older siblings (01:34:13) that are fighting and one's like pulling (01:34:15) hair or something as a parent might be (01:34:17) tempted to go oh oh you know something (01:34:19) because they feel like they can't handle (01:34:21) it all at once and I don't know it just (01:34:23) makes me think of how stressed life is (01:34:24) sometimes when you're in such a rush for (01:34:26) everything yeah like maybe dinner can (01:34:27) wait maybe we can let dinner be 30 (01:34:29) minutes later tonight maybe and and (01:34:31) again you can put some hummus and carrot (01:34:33) sticks out on the on the low table for (01:34:35) the kids so they're it takes a little of (01:34:38) the edge off their hunger because (01:34:39) they're always hungry at that time of (01:34:40) day yes and take a breath and also it's (01:34:43) okay to turn the things off go over to (01:34:46) your older two children who are pulling (01:34:48) the hair and say whoa whoa whoa ouch (01:34:49) that hurts you're having such a hard (01:34:51) time we're going to talk about it and (01:34:53) work this out but right now I know (01:34:55) everybody's hungry we need to get dinner (01:34:57) going so and the baby's crying me while (01:34:59) on your hip and needs to eat or whatever (01:35:01) um and you say so you can you each need (01:35:05) to do different things right now and (01:35:07) then we'll work it out later what are (01:35:09) you gonna do yes you can go in your room (01:35:10) and read your book what are you going to (01:35:11) do yes you can go over there to draw you (01:35:13) know whatever so it's fine to separate (01:35:15) them and work it out later you don't (01:35:17) have to like go through the whole (01:35:18) scenario at this moment right because (01:35:21) you don't have the time to do this yeah (01:35:23) but the difference is not the like the (01:35:25) shaming the blame the guilt the Locking (01:35:27) and that aspect and again when we're (01:35:30) dysregulated we act out of fear and then (01:35:33) we shame and blame and no good for (01:35:36) anybody yes did you finish your no (01:35:38) session (01:35:40) so we we yeah there's so much to say no (01:35:44) right but it's okay to say no but we (01:35:47) always empathize at the same time it's (01:35:49) so hard to stop playing and get ready (01:35:51) for bed and it's time for bed right no (01:35:54) no cookie even if the child's on the (01:35:56) floor crying no cookie and we're not (01:35:59) gonna shame and blame them for that (01:36:00) reaction because in that case it's (01:36:02) probably not about the cookie right so (01:36:04) it's completely fine to hold the (01:36:06) boundaries that are super important (01:36:08) and you said you know people don't feel (01:36:10) comfortable saying no why does my no not (01:36:12) have power also (01:36:14) remember it takes two people to have a (01:36:16) power struggle if your child if you're (01:36:18) listening to this and your child you're (01:36:20) thinking my child gets into Power (01:36:22) struggle with me about everything I (01:36:24) would advise you that it takes two (01:36:26) people to have a power struggle and you (01:36:27) do not have to attend every Power (01:36:29) struggle you're invited to (01:36:35) everything you (01:36:39) use and at that like and I'm I'm (01:36:41) thinking again a four-year-olds because (01:36:42) four-year-olds are very interested in (01:36:44) power they want to know how do I get my (01:36:46) needs met in this big world and they (01:36:49) often are very bossy with their friends (01:36:50) four-year-olds and their bossy with (01:36:52) their siblings and you know if if you're (01:36:56) um (01:36:56) as a parent if you haven't yet learned (01:36:59) to give your child the right to make (01:37:02) decisions about things that are okay for (01:37:04) them to make decisions about (01:37:05) you're probably doing what I would (01:37:08) consider over controlling so I met one (01:37:10) mom who was she was looked like a (01:37:13) fashion model at all times every minute (01:37:14) I don't know how she always looks so (01:37:16) great and her daughter wanted to wear (01:37:19) what she wanted to wear and the mother's (01:37:20) like I can't let her wear flowers and (01:37:23) Stripes together I'm like you absolutely (01:37:25) can what do you care I mean you well (01:37:28) well people would judge her she thought (01:37:30) and I said they will judge you as being (01:37:32) a good mom who lets your daughter (01:37:33) Express herself and they'll know she (01:37:36) dressed herself if she puts those three (01:37:37) things on together and that's fine right (01:37:39) absolutely so so I think sometimes we (01:37:41) have to back off the control if we have (01:37:44) a child who's saying no to us all the (01:37:46) time right because in this case what was (01:37:47) happening was the daughter the mother (01:37:50) would say where the wear this and wear (01:37:51) this and the daughter's saying no I'm (01:37:52) going to wear this and they would get (01:37:54) into a fight over it like really yeah (01:37:55) that's if you want to fight over yeah (01:37:57) you pick your battles on the important (01:37:59) things and then there's also I think at (01:38:00) the four-year-old age too where you kind (01:38:02) of figuring out where where what they (01:38:05) can do and how much they can or can't do (01:38:06) so you might say okay you need to clean (01:38:08) your room and then you'll realize okay (01:38:10) maybe they're not quite ready to clean (01:38:12) their whole room all by themselves and (01:38:14) you're getting a pickle because you want (01:38:15) your node to be your no and you don't (01:38:17) want to oh but it's fine that's a great (01:38:19) example of where you might step back (01:38:21) from your no because you realize it was (01:38:22) unreasonable now yeah so you're saying (01:38:24) no you can't go outside and play with (01:38:26) your siblings until your room is clean (01:38:27) yeah and your kid's like yeah and you (01:38:31) know some four-year-olds maybe could (01:38:32) have handled that maybe your older child (01:38:34) did it when she was four but this one (01:38:35) can't for you know everybody's different (01:38:37) yeah each age so so in that case you say (01:38:42) that is so hard to hear that you need to (01:38:44) clean your room and it feels so (01:38:45) overwhelming yeah it feels so (01:38:47) overwhelming you know what let's figure (01:38:49) it out together yeah let's do it (01:38:50) together I'll help you yeah you and you (01:38:53) want your child to know that you're a (01:38:55) safe place to come back to with what (01:38:56) isn't working for them in life so you (01:38:58) and they've always got back up and you (01:39:00) say we'll figure it out together you say (01:39:02) right give me a hug okay (01:39:04) in a room what we need to do to clean (01:39:07) your room is we need to pick up all the (01:39:10) clothes on the floor and put them in the (01:39:11) hamper and we need to pick up all the (01:39:13) toys and put them on the Shelf uh but (01:39:16) maybe that's the books go here just like (01:39:18) clear simple guidelines yeah they need (01:39:20) to know like the simplest possible thing (01:39:23) yeah everything off the floor toys go on (01:39:25) the Shelf books go on this shelf and (01:39:27) clothes go on the hamper it might be (01:39:28) that simple that may be it that's the (01:39:31) most a four-year-old can probably handle (01:39:32) it's not like they're gonna also (01:39:33) probably make their bed although you (01:39:35) know you could trade in one of those (01:39:37) other things for it but three things is (01:39:38) all anyone can remember certainly a (01:39:40) four-year-old the real point is you're (01:39:42) there with them doing it right there are (01:39:44) some six-year-olds who can't clean their (01:39:46) room up because you know maybe they have (01:39:48) some ADHD and it's hard to focus right (01:39:50) or you know hard to be organized or (01:39:52) maybe they just get distracted so easily (01:39:54) and that's fine to say (01:39:57) oh it feels so overwhelming let's work (01:39:59) on this together we'll figure it out I'm (01:40:01) right here I love that oh it's so good (01:40:04) everything you said about that it's a (01:40:05) good reminder so do you feel like we've (01:40:07) talked enough about parents who are like (01:40:09) when when I say no my child ignores me (01:40:12) yeah I feel like we could go into that a (01:40:14) little bit more there's there is another (01:40:15) thing I would say to parents if you feel (01:40:17) like you're always saying no and your (01:40:18) child ignores you I would wonder if (01:40:21) you're actually standing behind you or (01:40:22) no yeah because notice that I took that (01:40:24) bucket away from the child that (01:40:26) two-year-old I took the bucket away from (01:40:28) him I did it in a really lovely way but (01:40:31) I did it and I did not give the cookie (01:40:35) to the kid and I insisted that the child (01:40:37) clean up their room so if the child is (01:40:40) just saying no like and screens are a (01:40:42) great example of this where parents (01:40:44) expect a child to be able to turn off a (01:40:46) screen now we know better we know that (01:40:49) when we're on a computer busy doing (01:40:50) something and a kid is saying something (01:40:52) we're like yeah go away you know we know (01:40:55) that's our reaction so why do we expect (01:40:56) a child or we know we know that Netflix (01:40:59) is founded on a model and YouTube It's (01:41:01) founded on a model of showing you (01:41:03) something new every time you're done (01:41:05) with something and that we we look we're (01:41:08) like oh that's where binge watching (01:41:10) comes from right adults so how do we (01:41:13) ever expect our 14 year old or a 10 year (01:41:16) old or a seven-year-old to turn off the (01:41:18) screen right it's very hard for them to (01:41:21) do it's a dick (01:41:22) so parents will say well I say no and (01:41:25) she keeps watching the screen yeah you (01:41:28) you have to when the screen is off you (01:41:30) have to have a conversation about that (01:41:31) and how hard it is to turn it off and (01:41:33) don't make them bad and wrong it's it's (01:41:35) all YouTube and Netflix or whatever you (01:41:37) know we we know this is how it works (01:41:39) yeah acknowledging that it is hard yes (01:41:41) exactly and and then say what can I do (01:41:44) to make it easier for you what can we do (01:41:45) to make it easier usually you need (01:41:47) something to go toward (01:41:49) when you turn off the screen it can't be (01:41:51) turned off the screen and do your (01:41:52) homework it has to be turn off the (01:41:54) screen and come and let's have a little (01:41:56) five minute roughhousing session with (01:41:58) each other and laugh and you know (01:42:00) because they always want your attention (01:42:01) right let's do that or it's time for a (01:42:03) snack or it's time to go outside and you (01:42:06) know throw a ball together something (01:42:07) that they're going to look forward to (01:42:08) and even if it's go outside and run (01:42:11) around the house three times or my (01:42:13) daughter used to do push-ups when she (01:42:15) would get off the screen because it was (01:42:16) like it's physical a way to remobilize (01:42:19) that energy into something physical (01:42:20) right so you can always work with your (01:42:24) child on how to turn off the screen but (01:42:26) you have to stand behind it you say (01:42:28) it's very hard for you to turn this off (01:42:30) I know you want to get to the next level (01:42:32) of the game and it's time to turn it off (01:42:35) do you think you can do it or should I (01:42:36) do it and yourself like no no Mom just (01:42:38) wait a minute two more minutes and you (01:42:41) say I hear you want two more minutes you (01:42:42) I would always give one warning like (01:42:44) it's five minute warning the timer just (01:42:46) went off so you have a five minute (01:42:47) warning I'm sending it now for five (01:42:49) minutes because it went off to give us (01:42:50) the the five minute warning and then at (01:42:53) the end of the five minutes when the (01:42:54) case two more minutes two more minutes (01:42:55) you say I know we just had your extra (01:42:57) five minutes so I'm gonna turn it off (01:43:01) um no no Mom just I'm gonna turn it off (01:43:03) I know it's gonna be hard take a breath (01:43:06) and you you do whatever you need to you (01:43:08) can unplug it if that's what you have to (01:43:09) do you turn the thing off and then your (01:43:11) child has a complete meltdown but they (01:43:14) learn you're no just stuck your nose (01:43:16) your no yeah yeah and the difference is (01:43:18) you're not going I'm gonna like you're (01:43:20) not yanking it out of the whatever the (01:43:22) water grabbing it from them in this (01:43:24) horrible way where you're so angry at (01:43:25) them or you're not saying no video games (01:43:27) for a week because you didn't listen (01:43:28) because that's the that's kind of where (01:43:29) I think a parents want to resort to (01:43:31) maybe because they're feeling busy and (01:43:33) they're not feeling like they have the (01:43:35) time to sit down and get on their level (01:43:36) and get on that connection levels that (01:43:38) are like if you don't turn it off right (01:43:39) now you lose your video games tomorrow (01:43:40) tomorrow as they're cooking in the (01:43:41) kitchen but it's that extra effort that (01:43:44) makes all the world a difference because (01:43:45) then over time they know your no is no (01:43:47) and it doesn't have to be a shamey guilt (01:43:49) thing and then it becomes easier yeah in (01:43:51) such a quick time and and that is really (01:43:53) the final word on no is it's all about (01:43:57) the way you say it and the connection (01:43:58) you build as you do it because you can (01:44:00) say (01:44:01) you know you want to do this no we're (01:44:05) not going to do that we're gonna and you (01:44:08) pick them up and throw them around if (01:44:09) they're two you know or or no we're not (01:44:12) going to do that to your 14 year old but (01:44:14) we are going to have some time to you (01:44:17) know do we always do together where we (01:44:19) have a cup of tea yes throw a football (01:44:21) whatever the point is that we're always (01:44:23) standing behind our know with connection (01:44:25) because remember (01:44:27) they want this thing they want that you (01:44:29) just said no to but they want something (01:44:30) else more and that's that relationship (01:44:32) with you and so why are threats so bad (01:44:35) so why because I think that's the most (01:44:36) common way to pair it is if you don't do (01:44:38) this then this is well so think about (01:44:40) what you have to do with threats either (01:44:41) you stand behind the thread and you do (01:44:44) the thread yeah or you don't if you (01:44:46) don't do the threat then why would your (01:44:48) child actually listen to you because (01:44:50) they know and in fact often they know (01:44:53) yeah she's threatening but she's not (01:44:55) yelling really the top her lungs yet and (01:44:57) then finally when she's screaming at the (01:44:59) top of her lungs and grabbing the iPad (01:45:00) out of my hands oh yeah I'll listen to (01:45:02) her now yeah right you teach them the (01:45:04) threats it teaches them that you have to (01:45:05) escalate it really does it teaches them (01:45:07) one way or the other and let me ask you (01:45:09) when you're making I'll ask everyone (01:45:11) listening you're making a threat (01:45:14) you know you're you're of course you're (01:45:16) going to follow through right because (01:45:16) you're always making a threat from a (01:45:18) very reasonable place where that would (01:45:19) be a reasonable thing you would do right (01:45:21) I mean that's crazy you know I'm (01:45:23) thinking of one mom who I was I was on a (01:45:26) phone call with her this is years ago we (01:45:28) were in a group she was she was one of a (01:45:29) few moms in a group I was leading and in (01:45:32) the background we hear her husband (01:45:34) screaming against the kid and the (01:45:36) husband is leaning against the door to (01:45:38) the kid's room holding the door shut and (01:45:40) screaming you're never gonna come out of (01:45:42) that room again it's like right where (01:45:45) are these threats or we're gonna stick (01:45:47) to our threads right you're never going (01:45:48) to follow through with them and I (01:45:49) understand again why parents feel (01:45:51) powerless they feel powerless in the (01:45:54) face of their child saying like whatever (01:45:57) it was and so they they they get (01:46:00) dysregulated they feel that the child is (01:46:02) somehow being disrespectful your child (01:46:05) wasn't disrespectful to not put down the (01:46:06) screen they were addicted to the screen (01:46:08) that may be something you need to work (01:46:09) on but they weren't necessarily it (01:46:11) wasn't about reflection it's not about (01:46:12) you we make it about us too much yeah (01:46:14) you know yeah totally and so I would say (01:46:18) to every parent who's who starts they (01:46:20) hear the threat coming out of their (01:46:21) mouth (01:46:22) stop (01:46:24) drop your agenda (01:46:26) breathe stop drop breathe (01:46:28) take three deep breaths (01:46:30) and start over right start with (01:46:33) connection (01:46:34) maybe it's your 14 year old on the (01:46:36) computer and you say you come over and (01:46:39) you you put your hand on their shoulder (01:46:40) you're connecting and you say whoa Brent (01:46:44) need your attention and Brent looks at (01:46:46) you and says no no Mom not now you say (01:46:48) bread it's time we need to turn it off (01:46:51) you had your extra fighting you know (01:46:53) whatever you need to do but you notice (01:46:56) you've returned yourself to calm before (01:46:58) you begin to interact the minute you (01:47:00) feel threatening you already you know (01:47:01) you're already dysregulating you have to (01:47:03) stop you have to step back stop drop and (01:47:05) breathe and then you can start off (01:47:07) because what you what you said earlier (01:47:09) about what you're teaching them how to (01:47:11) react to you is so key because if you (01:47:13) just go to this pattern of (01:47:16) say no and then they don't listen and (01:47:17) you do the count of three and then you (01:47:19) do the threat and then it just keeps (01:47:21) going and going then they're gonna learn (01:47:22) oh Mom doesn't really mean no until she (01:47:24) gets to that point exactly but if you (01:47:26) just say no and you go over and you have (01:47:28) your connection and then you remove this (01:47:30) whatever the situation is that's the no (01:47:32) yeah and so then they know you don't (01:47:35) have to use anger to say no you just (01:47:39) have to mean your no and follow through (01:47:41) on it and it will always be more (01:47:43) effective if you offer your child (01:47:45) understanding as you do it I know it's (01:47:48) so hard to XYZ whatever it is yeah and (01:47:52) even if you find yourself because I (01:47:53) think a lot of people listening might (01:47:54) find themselves in a place where they (01:47:55) want to implement everything that you're (01:47:57) saying and they're like yes and they (01:47:59) might implement it maybe even 80 of the (01:48:00) time but then they find themselves this (01:48:02) is where I am where I'll find myself (01:48:03) every once while going to that place and (01:48:05) I don't want to go yeah and even if it's (01:48:07) like a threat thing like I'll go back (01:48:09) and be like okay I'm sorry that I don't (01:48:11) know why I said that I was just starting (01:48:12) to lose my cool I didn't mean it I (01:48:14) shouldn't have said that and then start (01:48:15) over and that's something they're like (01:48:17) oh this isn't mom's Norm they learned (01:48:19) from that too because you're apologizing (01:48:20) when you make your mistake even into (01:48:22) something like a threat I love that and (01:48:25) I call it a do-over and as we model it (01:48:27) they learn to do it too yeah so you can (01:48:30) say (01:48:31) oh let's all have a do-over and your (01:48:34) child gets sister I I know you wanted (01:48:36) accent your brother wanted why let's and (01:48:39) we you both said things that hurt each (01:48:40) other's feelings let's have a do-over (01:48:42) and if you've modeled that they can do (01:48:44) it with each other too so good okay any (01:48:46) final takeaways for how we can connect (01:48:48) more with our kids before we end this (01:48:51) I think you look at each child and you (01:48:55) see who they are and how you can (01:48:58) what they need some you know back to (01:49:01) Love Languages you know some kids really (01:49:04) need to be touched other kids it's in (01:49:07) the language you use the words some kids (01:49:10) it's you know referred to as acts of (01:49:12) service that you help them when they're (01:49:15) trying to you know go to the soccer game (01:49:17) and you help them not forget their shin (01:49:19) guards you make the list for them of (01:49:21) what they need and you you before as you (01:49:23) get into the car you say okay where's (01:49:26) your list let's look at that together or (01:49:28) you wash their uniform for them for the (01:49:30) big day or whatever things that are are (01:49:33) um that child might consider to be love (01:49:35) language so we we look at what each (01:49:38) child needs to feel valued and seen and (01:49:41) loved by us I think that's what matters (01:49:43) to connect perfect and I do have one (01:49:46) other thing to say to parents yes (01:49:48) I've mentioned self-compassion (01:49:51) research is pretty clear that when we (01:49:55) are nicer to ourselves we are nicer (01:49:57) people and most parents don't think that (01:50:00) they think well I'm letting myself off (01:50:01) the hook I lost it I yelled at my kids (01:50:03) that was terrible I don't want to be (01:50:06) that person and of course yes yes I want (01:50:09) to give that Mom a hug or that dad a hug (01:50:10) and say of course you don't want to be (01:50:11) that person (01:50:12) and (01:50:14) it's understandable (01:50:16) and if any of us were in your exact (01:50:18) shoes we would have done the same thing (01:50:20) and I mean that I mean with your you (01:50:23) know lack of sleep the night before and (01:50:24) you're you know kids doing whatever they (01:50:27) were doing that moment and your worries (01:50:30) about money or health or whatever else (01:50:32) and and your exact genetics and you know (01:50:35) everything that brought you to this (01:50:36) moment (01:50:37) it was a hard moment there are hard (01:50:40) moments in everyone's life give yourself (01:50:42) that let yourself off the hook (01:50:45) hug yourself as I say we have to (01:50:48) re-parent ourselves that's the big (01:50:49) secret is we have to learn to be our own (01:50:52) parent and give ourselves what we need (01:50:53) and then you know just be kind to (01:50:56) yourself and then say okay (01:50:59) let's replay this just like you did with (01:51:01) your child what could you do with that (01:51:02) Nerf gun instead of shooting in your (01:51:04) brother's face right let's Replay that (01:51:06) what could I do if I'm in this situation (01:51:08) tomorrow well first of all I'm going to (01:51:09) go to bed earlier secondly I'm going to (01:51:11) stop before it gets out of hand and (01:51:13) separate the kids so they're not pulling (01:51:15) each other's hair whatever the thing is (01:51:17) that we need to do so we're not (01:51:20) escalating right at that moment and you (01:51:23) know some as I say parents think they're (01:51:25) letting them people think they're (01:51:26) letting themselves off the hook it turns (01:51:29) out that actually people who are more (01:51:30) self-compassionate (01:51:32) are more loving not just to themselves (01:51:35) but to other people because they have (01:51:36) more love inside that's less shame less (01:51:39) blame more love that's what we need to (01:51:41) do to make the world a better place and (01:51:43) to be the parents we want to be yeah (01:51:45) absolutely all this whole conversation (01:51:46) really centers around like healing us as (01:51:49) people as a collective yes because it (01:51:52) starts with how we're raising our little (01:51:54) babies and how they grow up to be to (01:51:55) raise their babies and so on and how (01:51:58) they treat everybody around them yes and (01:52:00) the children we are raising every day (01:52:02) are going to be the people who will (01:52:04) populate the planet after we're gone and (01:52:07) wouldn't it be an amazing world if all (01:52:09) of them learned how to be more (01:52:11) emotionally generous (01:52:13) yes absolutely this is amazing well (01:52:15) thank you so much for being here I'm so (01:52:17) honored and so thankful to have this (01:52:19) conversation and pick your brain on (01:52:21) things and get new inspiration so I (01:52:23) really appreciate it and you're just (01:52:24) incredible so thanks for being here this (01:52:26) has been so much fun yes and your (01:52:28) children are wonderful oh thank you okay (01:52:30) we're gonna end it now bye (01:52:38) another (01:52:39) [Music]