How Zionism Indoctrinated the West with Ahmed Paul Keeler (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) we are living now in the age where a (00:00:03) storm is Raging around us and because I (00:00:06) was a complete Zionist really of course (00:00:08) I was the last generation to be educated (00:00:11) for Empire there is a stubborn (00:00:14) Vindication of Zionism in West (00:00:16) establishment circles uh what accounts (00:00:19) for this all the ingredients for a (00:00:23) catastrophe had been brought together (00:00:25) the educational system journalism the (00:00:28) whole entertainment industry everything (00:00:30) had was completely dominated by Zionism (00:00:34) and Charon hon was a nice (00:00:36) Anglo-Saxon guy is a 100 Years of (00:00:39) suffering conflict Wars (00:00:43) Devastation uprooting everyone can see (00:00:46) what is happening who is not encased in (00:00:49) the Zionist (00:00:53) illusion Zionism is the ideology that (00:00:56) underpins the barbarism that has been (00:00:58) meated out on the pales Ians its latest (00:01:02) chapter being the slaughter that is (00:01:03) currently happening in Gaza yet its (00:01:06) ideals remain respectable in (00:01:08) establishment circles in the United (00:01:11) States political leaders fall over one (00:01:13) another to declare their undenying (00:01:15) loyalty to this Creed and in Britain (00:01:18) there has been a long tradition of (00:01:20) Christian Zionism that spans back to the (00:01:23) early 20th century and the balur (00:01:26) Declaration my guest today is Ahmed Paul (00:01:29) Keeler he argues that Zionism has become (00:01:32) embedded into the Western mindset (00:01:34) through education and culture it relies (00:01:37) Upon A darwinian hierarchy that places (00:01:40) Europeans at the top and Arabs and (00:01:43) others as Savages and less than human (00:01:46) terms that have been uttered in recent (00:01:49) weeks as events unfold Ahmed was born in (00:01:53) 1942 and was brought up in a (00:01:55) conservative upper middle class Anglo (00:01:58) Catholic Family he belongs to the last (00:02:00) generation that was brought up to serve (00:02:02) the British Empire Ahmed Kila was a (00:02:05) visiting fellow at the center of Islamic (00:02:08) Studies University of Cambridge from (00:02:10) 2015 to (00:02:12) 2023 and was a distinguished fellow at (00:02:15) the faculty of leadership and management (00:02:17) University s Islam Malaysia in (00:02:21) 2016 Ahmed keralam alayum and welcome to (00:02:25) the thinking (00:02:28) mus well it's a pleasure to have you (00:02:30) with with us and I think we've got a (00:02:31) really interesting topic to discuss (00:02:33) today Zionism and the Western mindset (00:02:36) now Ahmed uh as I said I want to explore (00:02:40) how westerners view Zionism in recent (00:02:44) weeks uh we've seen the horrible scenes (00:02:47) from Gaza and I was uh caught by a (00:02:51) fabulous monologue that you presented on (00:02:53) YouTube zionism's 10 disruptions and you (00:02:57) stated in that monologue that Israel (00:02:59) became impossible because of the support (00:03:01) of Great Britain the Holocaust that took (00:03:04) place in Germany and the power of (00:03:07) America after World War II now I'm I'm (00:03:10) interested in exploring this further (00:03:12) let's start with Zionism as a concept (00:03:15) please can you explain what it is and (00:03:17) maybe how it differs to that of Judaism (00:03:20) as a faith (00:03:23) Zionism came out of The Cauldron of (00:03:26) ideas and (00:03:28) ideologies of the 19th (00:03:31) Century this was the time when the world (00:03:34) was the modern world was really being (00:03:36) formed the world we now know is was (00:03:38) being (00:03:39) formed and it was a time when (00:03:43) nationalism was was taking its present (00:03:47) form where the philosophers were busy (00:03:50) trying to Define humanity in terms of (00:03:56) races where major ideology Oles like (00:04:01) Marxism and fascism these were all being (00:04:04) formulated and (00:04:07) nalism and it was a time when the (00:04:11) secular (00:04:13) mind was very (00:04:16) busy reorganizing the world in order for (00:04:18) it to be able (00:04:19) to function as an indust as as (00:04:23) industrially based societies you got the (00:04:26) marriage uh the the toxic marriage that (00:04:29) took Place between (00:04:32) nationalism Germany German (00:04:35) nationalism and racial (00:04:38) identity (00:04:40) aryanism the master race and you got (00:04:44) this terrifying phenomenon of Nazism (00:04:49) yeah Zionism was also (00:04:53) constructed by putting together these (00:04:57) different (00:04:58) aspects the first thing (00:05:00) was to claim the Jews as a (00:05:06) race the second was to seek the Jews to (00:05:11) have a (00:05:12) nation to have to be a nation to have us (00:05:16) a national (00:05:19) state and these two are the sort of (00:05:22) fundamental basic structure if you like (00:05:25) of Zionism in (00:05:28) that Zionism the founder of Zionism (00:05:32) Herzel was a secular Jew this Theodor (00:05:36) Herzel Theodore Herzel yeah and he was a (00:05:39) secular Jew and he brought out his great (00:05:41) work his his his (00:05:44) uh the founding document of Zionism in (00:05:48) in 1896 right the Jewish (00:05:52) State and in that (00:05:55) document he talks about looking at two (00:06:01) places for a possible Jewish State one (00:06:04) was Argentina MH and the other was (00:06:07) Palestine so you can see from the very (00:06:10) outset this was secular right he wanted (00:06:13) to create a modern State he (00:06:16) was absolutely in love with modern (00:06:19) science with the modern world and he (00:06:23) wanted a a a (00:06:25) tremendous Jewish modern state where the (00:06:30) Jews could come together and why did (00:06:32) they need to come together they needed (00:06:34) to come together because of (00:06:37) anti-Semitism this was the great magnet (00:06:39) for his idea because the Jews had been (00:06:45) persecuted in Christendom (00:06:49) forever and that persecution was real (00:06:52) now in (00:06:54) the European (00:06:56) countries there had been the (00:06:58) Emancipation that had taken place (00:07:01) so the Jews had done very well in terms (00:07:03) of uh the the secular (00:07:07) world and they were not particularly (00:07:09) they were not in the slightest bit (00:07:11) interested in this idea of Zionism (00:07:14) because they were integrationists they (00:07:17) were a part of the society they were (00:07:19) English or French or German or whatever (00:07:20) they may be yeah (00:07:23) now the added ingredient that came about (00:07:27) with (00:07:28) Zionism was that (00:07:30) once he had chosen Palestine and he (00:07:34) chose Palestine so that it would attract (00:07:36) it would sort of create a resonance with (00:07:38) the (00:07:39) Jews once he'd chosen that another kind (00:07:43) of sanism came into (00:07:46) being and that was the religious Zionism (00:07:50) which is a very different to that of (00:07:53) secular (00:07:54) Zionism because as far as the religious (00:07:56) sists are concerns their interest was (00:08:00) the promised (00:08:02) land and the coming of the Messiah in (00:08:06) other words the idea that if they could (00:08:09) there go and bring the Nation of Islam (00:08:12) of of Judaism of Jews back into the (00:08:17) promised land the Messiah would appear (00:08:20) this was their (00:08:22) idea so we have these two (00:08:26) Zionism that are (00:08:28) born (00:08:30) then there is another (00:08:32) problem the other problem is that (00:08:36) Palestine is already (00:08:38) inhabited so you have the problem of the (00:08:41) fact that what you are actually going to (00:08:42) have to create is a colony you're going (00:08:44) to have to (00:08:46) colonize (00:08:48) Palestine which has a settled population (00:08:51) that's been there (00:08:52) forever and all the problems which which (00:08:58) account for colle colonial states every (00:09:02) Colony that has been produced British (00:09:04) French Spanish whatever it may be (00:09:06) Portuguese has always encountered the (00:09:08) problem of the people who exist already (00:09:11) and having to get rid of them in order (00:09:13) to make way to produce your own control (00:09:17) over that (00:09:18) state so from that very first idea of (00:09:24) Zionism back in the 18 19th century (00:09:29) sorry the it's the 19th century back in (00:09:32) the 19th century all the (00:09:34) ingredients for a (00:09:37) catastrophe had been brought (00:09:41) together and of course what we've (00:09:43) witnessed is the unfolding of a (00:09:46) catastrophe Ahmed Zionism remains a (00:09:49) disputed notion amongst Jews I mean (00:09:52) we've seen in the past months many (00:09:54) practic in Jews that have taken (00:09:56) exception uh to the ideas of Zionism (00:10:00) what are their objections this is a very (00:10:02) important (00:10:04) question right from the very (00:10:07) beginning Zionism was (00:10:10) condemned by the Orthodox (00:10:14) mainstream (00:10:16) Jews in other words the religious Jews (00:10:21) they absolutely (00:10:25) abominated Zionism why because (00:10:30) a fundamental tenant of (00:10:33) Judaism is that there can be no return (00:10:38) of the people of (00:10:39) Israel to the promised land to the holy (00:10:43) to the to to to to (00:10:45) Jerusalem until the coming of the (00:10:51) Messiah so (00:10:53) for the Jews to return in a political (00:10:58) manner is the worst sin that they can (00:11:02) commit it is it is an Abomination (00:11:06) because basically it's taking on the (00:11:09) role of the Messiah saying we are the (00:11:12) Messiah so it's a sort of it's a kind of (00:11:14) gesture of such arrogance and it was (00:11:18) utterly (00:11:20) condemned now what's interesting about (00:11:24) your (00:11:25) question is that it's only very recently (00:11:29) that that understanding has actually (00:11:34) been people have been getting to (00:11:36) understand it or or to know about it and (00:11:38) this is because the zionists did an (00:11:41) incredible (00:11:42) job of putting across to the West the (00:11:46) idea that they were the mainstream (00:11:50) right (00:11:51) and they remained a very marginal case (00:11:57) right up until the second World War (00:12:01) and it was the Holocaust that created (00:12:03) this huge (00:12:07) change and after the war Zionism (00:12:12) became a fact if you like in the west (00:12:17) yes and they brilliantly marginalized (00:12:19) the Orthodox by renaming them Ultra (00:12:23) Orthodox otherwise you know in other (00:12:25) words of AR Looney (00:12:27) Fringe but they are the ones they are (00:12:30) the real Jews who have continued the (00:12:34) same (00:12:35) practice the same understanding and the (00:12:39) same (00:12:41) absolute um what they say about uh (00:12:46) Zionism is the harshest of any people (00:12:48) who have ever said anything about (00:12:51) Zionism it is the Orthodox (00:12:54) Jew so this is where the extra ordinary (00:12:59) phenomenon of social (00:13:02) media and YouTube and the work that you (00:13:05) people like yourself are doing um (00:13:08) because the establishment in the (00:13:12) west the governing bodies the (00:13:16) educational system (00:13:19) journalism the whole entertainment (00:13:21) industry everything had was (00:13:24) completely uh dominated by Zionism the (00:13:28) idea the Zionist idea years and it's (00:13:30) only now that the other voices are being (00:13:33) heard it's only now the P (00:13:36) Palestinian narrative is being heard so (00:13:40) this is the extraordinary thing about (00:13:42) the time we're (00:13:43) now (00:13:45) experiencing because uh for me the uh as (00:13:50) as for all of us the horror of what (00:13:52) we're experiencing now is is is is (00:13:55) absolutely obvious yeah it's plain it's (00:13:57) before our eyes (00:13:59) so this is where you it's very very (00:14:02) important to listen to the Orthodox (00:14:06) Jews who are (00:14:08) explaining why Zionism has been such a (00:14:13) catastrophe because in my piece of 10 (00:14:17) great (00:14:18) disruptions it has disrupted for a 100 (00:14:21) years all the (00:14:24) different uh communities that he came (00:14:26) into touch with yes and this this is (00:14:29) where um you know we are in a moment of (00:14:34) change because nothing can be the same (00:14:37) after after this event now that's really (00:14:40) interesting I mean you've lived through (00:14:42) the 60s and 70s where there was a (00:14:45) growing uh level of support towards the (00:14:48) Palestinians in particular amongst the (00:14:51) left in in America and the United (00:14:53) Kingdom but I take from your your answer (00:14:56) that this moment is greater in uh in in (00:15:00) in terms of its uh gravity than um those (00:15:04) movements in the 60s well that's very (00:15:06) interesting because I was actually born (00:15:08) in the 40s I was born in 1942 wow so I (00:15:12) grew up in the 40s and the 50s yes and I (00:15:14) was 18 in 1960 wow and I was basically (00:15:19) at the age of of 19 when I went on a (00:15:24) road trip with a friend of mine from (00:15:26) school and we traveled through Germany (00:15:28) and we travel through to uh um (00:15:31) Yugoslavia and to Turkey then we came (00:15:34) back through Italy and France Etc yes (00:15:39) and in 1996 my mother died and she had (00:15:44) collected every piece (00:15:47) of literature or or anything that we (00:15:50) sent to her every letter every postcard (00:15:53) right and although I'm not a (00:15:55) particularly good letter (00:15:57) writer um (00:15:59) during that trip I had written a number (00:16:03) of (00:16:04) postcards and I received them back and I (00:16:08) was (00:16:09) absolutely shattered why what I said in (00:16:13) them was just po I can't I wouldn't read (00:16:16) them to you but I will tell you the what (00:16:18) what what it was about yes please the (00:16:21) first thing I discovered which I had (00:16:23) absolutely no recollection of was that (00:16:25) actually we were trying to get to Israel (00:16:28) right Israel was our (00:16:31) goal uh (00:16:33) then we arrived in turkey and I my I (00:16:39) really so enjoyed turkey it was (00:16:42) wonderful there was no tourism (00:16:44) then and but the things I say about it (00:16:47) the things like I say well the people (00:16:49) are very rough and they're very sort of (00:16:51) high blooded and but um they're so kind (00:16:54) and when they you they get to know you (00:16:57) they they really take you into their (00:16:59) heart and things like that and then I (00:17:01) talked about going into the area where (00:17:03) St Paul's had done all his great (00:17:05) evangelism I said it's a Pity to see (00:17:08) that all this place now is muhammadanism (00:17:10) and and and uh you know it's it's all (00:17:13) gone to that uh that stupid and silly (00:17:17) religion and then the biggest one was (00:17:21) when I we were coming back through Italy (00:17:24) and I said the mo because Italy was the (00:17:26) one country at that time especially (00:17:28) southern Italy yes where there was a lot (00:17:30) of Beggars you know people were begging (00:17:33) because they were very poor nothing like (00:17:34) this in Turkey nobody you know (00:17:38) approached you like this he was (00:17:39) surrounded by kids and things and also (00:17:42) it was um uh you it was after the war (00:17:46) one didn't have a high opinion of the (00:17:49) Italians and I said the most terrible (00:17:52) things about the Italians right I (00:17:54) literally you know said they were the (00:17:56) most appalling people that ever said (00:17:59) upon the Earth accepting they were (00:18:02) second only to the Arabs really and had (00:18:05) you have met have you met I had never (00:18:08) met an Arab I had never been to an Arab (00:18:12) country really so I thought to myself (00:18:15) when I read that I thought the first (00:18:16) thing I thought was I must never let (00:18:17) anybody ever see these bards and then I (00:18:20) thought to (00:18:21) myself where did this come from yeah how (00:18:24) was I at that moment in time completely (00:18:31) conditioned to see the Arabs in this way (00:18:35) and to have this great desire to go to (00:18:38) Israel and then I thought about (00:18:40) it and because I was a complete Zionist (00:18:44) really of course I was my mindset was (00:18:48) such that as far as I was concerned the (00:18:53) um Israelis were the heroes and the (00:18:56) Arabs were the villains so I want to (00:18:58) explore that where did that come from (00:18:59) was it through education was it through (00:19:01) popular culture how did you come to a (00:19:04) view that Arabs were horrible people (00:19:08) that uh (00:19:10) Zionism uh was a moral world view where (00:19:14) did where did that come from well I (00:19:17) think that this is exactly the questions (00:19:19) I started asking myself ah when did you (00:19:22) ask yourself those I mean I I went into (00:19:25) it (00:19:26) thoroughly after I'd read the post okay (00:19:30) okay I'd already been cleared of it in (00:19:32) the 1960s okay because as you say yeah (00:19:35) what happened in the 1960s that I was (00:19:37) the last generation to be educated for (00:19:40) emper ah I went through this period of (00:19:44) being taken from home at the age of (00:19:46) eight and being in a boarding school (00:19:48) until 18 10 years really of boarding (00:19:52) school yeah and the curriculum had not (00:19:55) changed since before the (00:19:57) war they hadn't had (00:20:00) time and it was a time when literally (00:20:03) you were being educated to go out to (00:20:06) anywhere in the (00:20:08) world and to run an emper that's so as a (00:20:11) bishop as a you know as a judge as an (00:20:14) administrator as a as a colonel and (00:20:18) whatever but it was that was the educ (00:20:20) that was the mindset that was being (00:20:22) prepared and we believed by the age of (00:20:24) 12 13 14 I believed as uh the um the (00:20:29) great Victorian educator whose name I (00:20:32) can't remember at the moment but it (00:20:33) doesn't matter M said the the the the (00:20:37) English not the British the English yes (00:20:40) are the greatest and the most civilized (00:20:41) people the world has ever known and you (00:20:44) believed I believed in itet and all my (00:20:47) school we we believed in it yeah we had (00:20:50) that that was utter conviction you know (00:20:52) we' won the war Americans had come in (00:20:54) late you know we knew nothing about the (00:20:56) Russian front you know all those films (00:20:59) were coming out uh in the 50s about uh (00:21:03) you know how we did it by sea and land (00:21:05) and air and you know yes Etc and and we (00:21:09) believed it (00:21:10) completely and our um education and the (00:21:13) heroes of England from (00:21:15) Alfred and and uh s Francis Drake and (00:21:20) you playing the bows you know and the he (00:21:22) told that the Amada has been cited he (00:21:25) says let we'll finish the game of bows (00:21:27) and then we'll go and defeat the the m (00:21:29) is fantastic we knew nothing about India (00:21:32) apart from the black hole of Kolkata (00:21:35) when the British were you know massacred (00:21:38) in a massacre and of course it was The (00:21:40) White Man's Burden yeah so I (00:21:43) understanding you know we were the ones (00:21:45) who got rid of slavery William (00:21:49) wilburforce the fact that we were the (00:21:51) greatest slavers in in no we we were the (00:21:53) heroes right so it was it was building (00:21:56) up this sense of heroism in in the (00:21:59) person who would go out and rule the (00:22:01) world and of course by the age of 18 uh (00:22:06) the empire was finished yeah so I was (00:22:08) out of a job and I I happened to go into (00:22:12) the Arts because that's one area I was (00:22:15) interested in I was interested in (00:22:17) theater so during the 60s I spent a (00:22:20) period of complete re-education and a (00:22:22) part of that cultural (00:22:25) revolution that was taking place in (00:22:27) England at that time time because (00:22:29) everything was being upturned we were (00:22:32) attacking the church we were attack (00:22:34) attacking the the the the government we (00:22:36) were attacking everything it was all (00:22:38) being brought and at that time you you (00:22:41) discovered Palestine right that's when (00:22:44) we we made the great change we suddenly (00:22:46) saw there was another story and the (00:22:48) other Story made a lot more sense and (00:22:51) then another of the films which was (00:22:53) incredibly important at that time was (00:22:55) the battle for alers uhhuh (00:22:59) which came out wonderful Italian (00:23:01) filmmakers yes who produced this amazing (00:23:04) film which was produced in just two or (00:23:07) three years after the French left (00:23:11) Algeria and it was amazing the Arabs (00:23:15) started to become (00:23:18) human they became human beings yes (00:23:21) because (00:23:23) that aspect of the people being (00:23:26) something less than human (00:23:29) of course you had to have complete um (00:23:33) compassion and kindness and (00:23:36) generosity but they were not as you (00:23:39) were they were not as you were you know (00:23:42) you didn't have them in your club or you (00:23:44) didn't have you know this was a very (00:23:46) powerful aspect yeah um this whole (00:23:49) business of of bringing in um that that (00:23:53) separation which you had in South Africa (00:23:55) yes you know and you had in all the (00:23:57) British College (00:24:00) so that was my (00:24:02) education and when I looked at then (00:24:05) about the Zionist aspect of (00:24:07) it first of all you have to remember as (00:24:11) a (00:24:12) Christian the Old Testament is a part of (00:24:15) our whole sacred (00:24:18) education all the prophets are our (00:24:21) prophets leading to Jesus Christ so we (00:24:25) identify with them and in the (00:24:27) illustration ated children's books you (00:24:30) know Moses looks very (00:24:32) familiar you know they all look very (00:24:35) familiar and then um so that that's one (00:24:39) area where immediately the Jews are a (00:24:42) part of us right then you have the other (00:24:45) thing which is (00:24:46) incredible was that the zionists had (00:24:48) done an incredible job with with uh (00:24:53) Hollywood now the film in the 1950s was (00:24:58) the most powerful medium right there was (00:25:01) no television yes remember no television (00:25:04) only the cinema and the cinema had gone (00:25:06) from the sort of black and white grainy (00:25:08) things to these Blockbusters these (00:25:10) incredible cinemascope all color huge (00:25:15) epics and there were (00:25:17) two major epics in the early (00:25:21) 1950s The Ten (00:25:24) Commandments and Ben her which is the (00:25:27) story of this great Jewish (00:25:29) hero both these (00:25:32) parts were (00:25:33) played by Charlton hon was it Charlton (00:25:37) hon yes and Charlton hon was a nice (00:25:41) Anglo-Saxon guy yeah Moses yes Anglo (00:25:45) Saxon yes (00:25:47) benur Anglo-Saxon and the villains of (00:25:50) course were always very Brown and you (00:25:53) know (00:25:54) AR (00:25:56) furtive or yes and then you had (00:26:01) the the the most powerful piece of (00:26:06) Zionist propaganda ever produced and (00:26:09) that was Exodus right and this is a film (00:26:13) where the end of the War the British (00:26:17) were had put the tap on on these the (00:26:20) Jews from the concentration camps coming (00:26:23) into into uh Palestine because there (00:26:27) were so (00:26:30) many the British weren't letting them in (00:26:33) the Americans weren't letting them in so (00:26:36) they were being held in a camp in (00:26:38) Cyprus so that they could then be given (00:26:41) visas Etc and then worked into but there (00:26:44) was a war going on between the Arabs and (00:26:46) and and the zionists yes and they made (00:26:49) this film which is a Great Hero who who (00:26:53) got this ship and 600 or so uh Jews from (00:26:59) the concentration camps in the boats to (00:27:03) take it into Israel it's a story of how (00:27:05) they were taken out of Cypress and they (00:27:07) it's a real you know very exciting uh (00:27:11) story and of course the villains are the (00:27:14) British and the (00:27:17) Arabs and the hero the leader of the (00:27:20) zionists was Paul (00:27:23) Newman you know so so the the whole uh (00:27:27) identification (00:27:29) of the Israelis of the (00:27:32) zionists as being of us right they they (00:27:37) were of (00:27:38) us they were Europeans they were (00:27:42) Western that was the other powerful (00:27:45) thing I discovered which was definitely (00:27:47) you know a major ingredient in this then (00:27:51) of course those the Holocaust right how (00:27:54) could you how can you what can you say (00:27:59) this the sense of just pure horror I (00:28:02) mean when that came out in the 50s and (00:28:03) as children I mean I I I experienced (00:28:05) this as as a you know teenager (00:28:09) yeah what how can you react to that what (00:28:13) what what is what can you (00:28:16) say of such (00:28:19) industrialized (00:28:21) horror that was (00:28:24) perpetuated so this this ingredient in (00:28:28) seals the whole rightness you how could (00:28:31) you even speak against the idea of of (00:28:35) the Jewish the of of the Jews having (00:28:38) their own (00:28:40) State how could you argue against it (00:28:44) impossible completely flooded over (00:28:47) you and it became a a fact it wasn't a (00:28:53) something that was there was there was (00:28:55) no argument about it there was no doubts (00:28:57) nothing no doubt entered one's (00:28:59) mind and who are the Palestinians (00:29:02) anywhere you know this was a so so this (00:29:04) was a special (00:29:06) case and I think these three (00:29:11) ingredients probably were the ones which (00:29:14) formed my desire to go to Israel as a (00:29:21) 19-year-old and my complete contempt for (00:29:24) the (00:29:25) Arabs I can't you that that's how i' (00:29:28) I've been able to explain it now um we (00:29:31) started this um portion of the (00:29:33) conversation by uh measuring where we (00:29:36) are today and the sympathy that seems to (00:29:40) have widened for the Palestinians today (00:29:43) to out of the countercultural movements (00:29:45) that you experienced in the (00:29:47) 1960s so do you feel this moment is (00:29:50) greater than the moment of the 60s yes (00:29:54) because I think in the moment of the 60s (00:29:55) it was very much to do with that that (00:29:59) revolutionary fervor that existed in the (00:30:02) 60s yeah now what happened and what (00:30:04) happened to me was of course at the end (00:30:06) of the 60s I I I was introduced into (00:30:09) Islam ah so um basically I went (00:30:14) back to my childhood in the sense of my (00:30:18) sort of moral compass and my the world (00:30:20) that I inhabited was much closer to the (00:30:23) the Christianity of my of my childhood (00:30:26) than it was to the revolutionary of the (00:30:29) 60s that were tearing everything down (00:30:32) the sexual Revolution which is upturning (00:30:33) the whole moral order I is going back (00:30:36) into a very powerful moral (00:30:39) order you know and so I (00:30:42) watched as that revolution of the 60s (00:30:47) where satra and Fuko and all these (00:30:50) people were (00:30:51) demolishing I watched over the the (00:30:54) decades as that gradually that conquered (00:30:58) the establishment and is now the (00:31:01) establishment but it got rid of certain (00:31:03) things along the way and one of them was (00:31:05) the question of (00:31:07) Palestine it fell away from The (00:31:10) Establishment so you've got an (00:31:12) establishment now it has all the worst (00:31:15) possible ingredients on the one hand it (00:31:16) has this kind of you know going back to (00:31:18) the idea of being the best of English (00:31:20) and rest and yet the supporting you know (00:31:24) horrible moral (00:31:26) ideas terrible ideas so there's a sort (00:31:30) of a marriage between the worst of the (00:31:33) 60s and the worst of an imperial (00:31:37) people you know it's it's a mentality (00:31:39) which is very very very dangerous now (00:31:42) that's really fascinating now we (00:31:44) associate in particular the Republican (00:31:47) right in the United States uh to be very (00:31:50) Pro Zionist and we've got this section (00:31:53) of Republicans who we call Christian (00:31:56) zionists M um I was fascinated to learn (00:32:00) from your video that Christian Zionism (00:32:03) has a precedence here in in the UK and (00:32:05) in Britain and in particular uh some of (00:32:07) our uh political Heroes I suppose in in (00:32:10) Britain David ly George Arthur balur who (00:32:13) was prime minister and then became (00:32:15) foreign secretary during the first world (00:32:17) war coalition government they were (00:32:19) inFAMOUS or strong Christian zionists I (00:32:23) mean balur of course was the originator (00:32:26) of what became known as the bful (00:32:28) declaration um can you talk me through (00:32:32) what Christian Zionism is and why the (00:32:35) British government during that period (00:32:38) came behind the Zionist movement (00:32:41) Christian (00:32:42) Zionism (00:32:44) preceded Jewish Zionism (00:32:47) really and had a great influence upon it (00:32:50) h Christian (00:32:52) Zionism came out of the Protestant sects (00:32:57) yeah (00:32:59) um it was again very (00:33:02) importantly um considered a heresy by (00:33:06) the mainstream (00:33:07) religions so again it's another uh it's (00:33:11) it's it's another um (00:33:14) abortional creation so mainstream (00:33:17) anglicanism would not have Roman (00:33:19) Catholicism right the Russian Orthodox (00:33:22) the Greek orth the the the Anglican (00:33:24) Church certainly at the time and most (00:33:27) Protestant churches as well I mean it (00:33:29) was it was a it was a marginal thing (00:33:33) really (00:33:34) um but it basically believes this is (00:33:39) this is its (00:33:40) uh absurd belief it believes that all (00:33:45) the Jews have to be put back into (00:33:49) Israel in order for the second coming to (00:33:53) take place second coming of Jesus Christ (00:33:56) to take place okay this is their belief (00:33:58) and it is a Protestant (00:34:02) misreading of the gospels of of the uh (00:34:06) the Bible is basically where real (00:34:09) theologians proper theologians um had (00:34:12) these do it-yourself theologians putting (00:34:15) together this absurd concept yeah but it (00:34:19) had devastating (00:34:21) consequences um it became very (00:34:24) fashionable amongst certain members of (00:34:26) the aristocracy during the 19th century (00:34:28) yeah because the aristocracies love (00:34:30) eccentric things you know this is a part (00:34:32) of their their entertainment and several (00:34:37) of the prime (00:34:38) ministers played with it and that con (00:34:42) and and the concept of a a land without (00:34:45) people for a people without land (00:34:46) actually comes out of Christian (00:34:51) Zionism and so one of the um people who (00:34:56) became a Christian (00:34:58) was um Lord Lord um sbur no no the one (00:35:04) of the um the Declaration Bal B (00:35:10) so balfor was prime minister beginning (00:35:14) of the 20th century yeah he brought in (00:35:17) the most (00:35:19) Draconian immigration laws yes because (00:35:23) at that time there were hundreds of (00:35:25) thousands of Jews coming out of Russia (00:35:27) and east (00:35:29) Europe and we blocked them from coming (00:35:32) into this country and they went to (00:35:35) America which at that time was (00:35:38) open and basically the Christian (00:35:44) arists were not doing this because they (00:35:46) loved the (00:35:47) Jews they were doing it because of the (00:35:50) desire to hurry on the second coming of (00:35:54) Jesus Christ but of course there were (00:35:57) the those who were interested in the uh (00:36:00) in in bringing the Jews into (00:36:01) Christianity and converting them into (00:36:03) Christianity we go forward to the second (00:36:08) the first world war and this is where (00:36:10) the great tragedy takes (00:36:12) place and where you have the (00:36:14) marriage between Christian (00:36:18) Zionism and Zionism as we know it balur (00:36:22) was foreign (00:36:24) minister and Lloyd George was prime (00:36:28) minister and Lloyd George has become (00:36:31) friends with Weissman who was the second (00:36:33) leader of Zionism who was a chemist and (00:36:37) who had been providing the British war (00:36:41) effort with (00:36:43) explosives and the person who was in (00:36:47) charge of Munitions at the beginning of (00:36:49) the war was Lloyd George so he become (00:36:52) friends with wisman and he (00:36:55) become very excited about the whole (00:36:57) Zionist (00:36:58) Affair so you had balur a Christian (00:37:01) Zionist and you had David Lloyd (00:37:05) George and so they produced this (00:37:10) devastating (00:37:11) declaration which promised that the (00:37:14) British would (00:37:15) support the creation of a Homeland for (00:37:18) the Jews in (00:37:20) Palestine now one thing which is very (00:37:23) important is very very very I've hardly (00:37:27) seen it mentioned yeah is that in the (00:37:30) cabinet at that time there was a Jew (00:37:33) Lord (00:37:34) montigue now Lord montue was an orthodox (00:37:37) Jew who had done extremely well with his (00:37:42) family in this (00:37:43) country and who wrote this incredible (00:37:48) memorandum absolutely opposing the alha (00:37:54) Declaration in it he talks about Zionism (00:37:58) as being a (00:37:59) mischievous political (00:38:03) idea and he literally places before the (00:38:09) governments the full catastrophe that (00:38:12) would (00:38:12) happen if they went ahead with this idea (00:38:16) and it actually became (00:38:18) realized he talks (00:38:21) about there are people there already (00:38:24) what are you going to do with the people (00:38:26) who are there already (00:38:28) then he talked about the fact there is (00:38:29) no such thing as the as as (00:38:33) the the Jewish uh Nation we (00:38:37) are a a religion we are identified by (00:38:41) our religion he talked about how if you (00:38:44) if you place this Jewish State you are (00:38:48) going to create the greatest (00:38:50) anti-semitic act in history because (00:38:54) everybody is going to want their Jews to (00:38:55) go to that place (00:38:58) now what is interesting is that that (00:39:00) exactly what happened with Arab (00:39:03) jury because the Arabs the the Arab Jews (00:39:08) did not experience or have the same (00:39:13) Narrative of persecution and horror that (00:39:17) the Jews under Christendom had had (00:39:20) suffered they were fully integrated into (00:39:24) their Arab communities Arabic was their (00:39:28) language was their (00:39:30) culture and they had their (00:39:32) religion and they were fully engaged in (00:39:37) I mean Baghdad at the time a third of (00:39:39) the population of Baghdad was (00:39:41) Jewish and you had Rich Merchants you (00:39:44) had Scholars you had every kind of (00:39:46) person who was integrated into that (00:39:48) Society so they didn't have this (00:39:51) narrative with the state of (00:39:53) Israel and you got the whole nationalist (00:39:56) thing taking (00:39:57) off they found themselves in a position (00:40:00) where they were identified with (00:40:03) Israel and they had to leave their (00:40:05) countries and they had to go to Israel (00:40:10) as second class citizens because the (00:40:13) European Jews who founded who were the (00:40:17) zionists who founded Israel looked upon (00:40:21) their (00:40:23) Arab Jews as inferior so the Arab Jews (00:40:27) had to get rid of their Arab culture (00:40:31) yeah they had to literally it was a it (00:40:33) was an incredible thing that happened it (00:40:35) was one of the great disruptions right (00:40:37) was the disruption of Arab (00:40:40) jury (00:40:42) so the um Christian Zionism yeah (00:40:49) basically made (00:40:51) possible because there was another (00:40:54) person in the (00:40:55) cabinet who was a a Jew and who was a (00:40:59) Zionist and as soon as the British had (00:41:01) the Mandate after the war because after (00:41:04) the first world war with the conquest of (00:41:07) the Ottomans uh the British took over (00:41:10) Palestine as a mandate from the United (00:41:12) Nations the first governor from Britain (00:41:16) we sent out there was Herbert Samuel who (00:41:20) was a Zionist Jew and of course we then (00:41:23) started you know making it possible for (00:41:26) the Jews to come into for the zionists (00:41:29) to pour into into uh Palestine now if (00:41:33) you read some of the writings and and (00:41:36) the speeches of people like ala balfor (00:41:39) or David Lloyd George you could do also (00:41:42) get the impression that there is a a (00:41:45) crusading undertone in in much of their (00:41:48) language like how much of the Palestine (00:41:52) mandate was a fulfillment of a more (00:41:55) historic enmity between Christendom and (00:41:58) Islam I don't know very much about this (00:42:01) and and but but my (00:42:04) impression is that I don't think this (00:42:06) counted for very much by (00:42:08) then I think that the whole of the early (00:42:12) years of of (00:42:14) Israel was political (00:42:18) secular I think the British were far (00:42:20) more interested in the fact that they (00:42:22) wanted a a foothold there to to look (00:42:25) after the suicide canal and as a (00:42:28) strategic base which was (00:42:30) European in dealing with that world and (00:42:34) the importance of it um I think by that (00:42:37) time the Crusades were a very long very (00:42:41) long time away the the Muslim world had (00:42:43) been completely (00:42:46) subjugated and I don't think it was uh I (00:42:49) don't think that that was a major issue (00:42:52) right but it was certainly we were still (00:42:56) as we in the 20s we were still deeply a (00:42:59) colonial (00:43:00) power we were deeply a colonial power so (00:43:04) it belongs much more to the of colonized (00:43:06) situation because I remember as my (00:43:08) upbringing in terms of my being prepared (00:43:10) to be a a member of the British Empire (00:43:13) or fact totem or whatever you might call (00:43:16) it yeah um this never came (00:43:18) up this never really came up I mean one (00:43:22) one saw the the rest of the world (00:43:24) starting with with the French (00:43:27) as as (00:43:28) being inferior so it wasn't it was a it (00:43:31) was a very u i mean the the the sense of (00:43:36) the superiority of the British was was (00:43:38) formidable so can I talk about that (00:43:41) cultural Supremacy that Zionism came out (00:43:45) of Zionism was forged in the 19th (00:43:48) century where Europeans were using (00:43:50) science and scientific discovery to (00:43:52) accommodate their cultural and ethnic (00:43:55) chauvinism (00:43:57) um how much of that ideological Trend (00:44:02) exists even today when viewing the (00:44:05) Orient of Africa or or in this case uh (00:44:09) the slaughter that is in in Gaza I don't (00:44:12) think that the West has got rid of (00:44:16) its deep sense of superiority (00:44:20) right um I don't think even the (00:44:24) British in terms of the (00:44:27) governing (00:44:29) classes um but I think what is much more (00:44:32) interesting or much more seminal at the (00:44:35) moment is that what has appeared in (00:44:44) Israel that that concoction of Zionism (00:44:48) in the 19th (00:44:50) century has now (00:44:52) grown into a (00:44:55) monster (00:44:57) because you have a (00:44:59) state which of course is a a state that (00:45:03) is exclusive in terms of its race yes a (00:45:07) state that is (00:45:09) absolutely nationalist (00:45:12) state of of of a fanatical national (00:45:15) state a state which um has (00:45:20) completely made the other the Palestine (00:45:24) Palestinian in into uh (00:45:27) subhuman and that has oppressed them in (00:45:30) a way that is (00:45:32) unimaginable a state that is practicing (00:45:35) AP (00:45:37) partite a state that is literally (00:45:42) um creating the two most horrible things (00:45:47) imaginable it it is genocide an ethnic (00:45:51) cleansing of a people before our very (00:45:54) eyes a state that is dealing with (00:45:56) children in a way that is unspeakable (00:45:59) and a state that is calling out that it (00:46:01) is the (00:46:03) victim which is which is which is (00:46:06) strange so it's a kind of almost the (00:46:09) kind of pathology that has taken (00:46:11) place and it is so far from the nature (00:46:15) of the traditional Jew that the (00:46:18) traditional Jew is now saying this (00:46:21) Zionism has nothing to do with (00:46:26) Judaism it has nothing to do with (00:46:31) us and the the monstrosity of it is that (00:46:36) the only thing that you can compare it (00:46:39) to is the very state that was (00:46:44) responsible for the (00:46:47) Holocaust that is what is so (00:46:50) terrifying it is a state that has become (00:46:53) the you know there's a kind of M (00:46:58) Madness and a kind of Hysteria that is (00:47:01) taking (00:47:02) place so this is where you have the (00:47:07) incredible danger of (00:47:09) ideas look at the way that uh marks (00:47:12) thought up communism Marxism yeah ideas (00:47:15) in the British museum sitting there (00:47:16) putting together these ideas and the (00:47:18) devastation that it heaped upon the (00:47:20) world well Zionism is the same Zionism (00:47:24) is a human construct (00:47:27) that is put (00:47:29) together where the (00:47:32) spiritual those that are (00:47:34) responsible for the sacred are saying (00:47:38) this thing is an (00:47:40) Abomination that's what they're (00:47:43) saying and the proof of it is a 100 (00:47:47) Years of suffering conflict Wars (00:47:51) Devastation (00:47:53) uprooting (00:47:55) oppression (00:47:56) that's the reality that is what has (00:47:59) happened over the last 100 years with (00:48:02) Zionism and it's time that the West woke (00:48:05) up because this is really a a moment (00:48:09) when we have reached the point where the (00:48:11) rest of the world can see it clearly (00:48:13) you're absolutely right yet there is a (00:48:15) stubborn Vindication of Zionism in (00:48:18) Western establishment circles uh what (00:48:21) accounts for this well as I say I think (00:48:23) it's to do with the fact that the uh uh (00:48:27) as I say from my point of view the the (00:48:29) zionists they they put together a (00:48:33) story they were they they were engaged (00:48:37) they were the subject of a horror that (00:48:40) is beyond imagining yeah the guilt of (00:48:44) the West imagine Europeans who believe (00:48:48) that they are the last the final word in (00:48:53) Civilization Germany most civilized all (00:48:56) of music and the philosophy and the (00:48:58) literature and the art that's come out (00:49:00) of (00:49:01) Germany and then suddenly it produces a (00:49:05) horror which is amongst the greatest (00:49:09) horrors of of of of of all (00:49:12) time what do we do the (00:49:15) guilt and what we have done is we have (00:49:18) put our guilt across to a place that was (00:49:23) Guiltless the Arabs were Guiltless (00:49:26) the Palestinians lived in (00:49:31) peace Muslims Christians and Jews going (00:49:37) back to the (00:49:40) beginning living as one in one (00:49:45) culture and the rabbi of Jerusalem when (00:49:50) the United (00:49:52) Nations was putting together this (00:49:58) partition begged them not to give it to (00:50:02) the zist the rabbi of (00:50:05) Jerusalem and this is something that the (00:50:09) zionists have kept so (00:50:12) quiet but is now coming out the voice of (00:50:15) the true Jews are being (00:50:18) heard so when we talk about this this (00:50:22) kind of (00:50:24) amazing brainwashing that's taken place (00:50:28) let's just look at the story they've (00:50:30) told there are four aspects to their (00:50:34) story the first aspect is that it was a (00:50:37) land without a people for a people (00:50:39) without a land what a silly (00:50:42) idea it was a beautiful (00:50:45) land it was a land that was with which (00:50:49) the (00:50:50) 450 lovely Villages where the people (00:50:54) were farming the land in a way that was (00:50:56) sustainable forever and had been doing (00:50:58) it forever were then literally taken and (00:51:02) with the nakba were were (00:51:06) evicted (00:51:07) destroyed (00:51:10) killed and had to go and and and and (00:51:13) into into (00:51:15) camps what are we talking about a land (00:51:18) without a people for people without (00:51:20) land and then you have the the story (00:51:23) that it was a desert we made the Desert (00:51:27) Bloom I heard this as a child this is a (00:51:30) great thing yeah they had come with all (00:51:32) their modern fervor and they were making (00:51:35) the desert (00:51:37) blue and then there were the stories (00:51:40) that there's no such thing as (00:51:43) Palestinians they're just wandering (00:51:46) Arabs you know they Arabs I mean you can (00:51:50) Arab can go anywhere they can go to (00:51:51) Egypt they can go to Syria they can go (00:51:53) to you know Jordan they can go any (00:51:55) anywhere better winds yeah but the (00:51:59) Arab what are they talking about the (00:52:01) Egyptians are the most ancient people on (00:52:03) the Earth the the uh the Palestinians (00:52:06) have been there (00:52:07) forever the syrians are ass Syrian (00:52:10) people all of them they're unified by (00:52:15) Arabic by Islam or by Christianity or (00:52:17) whatever it is their (00:52:19) religion but they are as different as (00:52:22) the French are to the English to the (00:52:24) Germans to the Spanish to (00:52:26) whatever and this is again one of the (00:52:30) things which the story which the (00:52:33) zionists are telling now is getting more (00:52:36) and more (00:52:37) desperate I have heard this story from (00:52:40) several sources including from their (00:52:42) prime minister yeah they talk about the (00:52:45) fact that the the (00:52:48) Jews were in (00:52:51) Palestine and the ones who got rid of (00:52:54) them and evicted them from pal Palestine (00:52:56) were the Arabs in the 7th (00:53:01) Century can you imagine something so (00:53:04) incredible and and and this was uh (00:53:07) Netanyahu talking to to to to Jordan (00:53:10) Peterson and Jordan Pon was looking you (00:53:13) know oh really it was amazing how could (00:53:16) they how many Arabs came out of (00:53:21) Arabia how many Arabs came out of (00:53:24) Arabia they culturally transformed the (00:53:27) area they didn't upset the the people (00:53:31) and anyway the it's this make belief (00:53:33) they're having to tell more and more (00:53:35) Fantastical stories yeah and then we (00:53:37) come to the final one yes the final (00:53:39) story which is a story that they were (00:53:42) there 2,000 years ago it was their (00:53:44) Homeland and they're coming to reclaim (00:53:47) their Homeland but it's also the (00:53:49) homeland of the Christians the whole (00:53:52) story of Christianity it's also the (00:53:54) homeland of the of the Muslim Muslims (00:53:56) it's the whole story of Islam Jerusalem (00:53:59) is the city of the three great faiths (00:54:01) and that was (00:54:03) honored by (00:54:05) Islam and is being (00:54:08) Dishonored by (00:54:11) Zionism that's the (00:54:14) reality so this is where you this is the (00:54:16) story that was told and it's the story (00:54:19) that the westons had but I must say I (00:54:22) never expected to see what I've seen (00:54:24) today really I never expected it I never (00:54:27) expected the people in the west and in (00:54:30) governments our own English government (00:54:32) to behave in the way they have be you (00:54:34) know against something that is so (00:54:38) horrific that is so clearly evil (00:54:42) yeah and for them to literally not deal (00:54:47) with it and this country I've been (00:54:50) watching the front pages of the (00:54:51) newspapers now for three or four weeks (00:54:53) nothing yeah nothing (00:54:56) it is (00:54:58) incredible so we are going to pay a very (00:55:00) heavy price because we have lost all (00:55:02) moral Authority in the world because (00:55:05) everyone can see what is happening (00:55:07) everyone can see what is happening who (00:55:09) is not (00:55:11) encased in the Zionist (00:55:15) illusion because it's an (00:55:18) illusion it's an illusion Raab Ahmed how (00:55:21) much do you see Zionism as almost a (00:55:24) project that's in intertwined with a (00:55:27) greater civilizing mission of the West (00:55:30) in the Muslim world no I think that (00:55:32) Zionism is a is a very (00:55:35) particular very distinct thing but it's (00:55:38) almost like you know it's the time when (00:55:41) colonialism was was (00:55:44) finishing and this (00:55:46) colonialism suddenly comes into (00:55:49) existence and it is um a colonialism (00:55:54) which won't go away (00:55:56) because where they where they chose to (00:55:59) go was a place of deep (00:56:03) interest which connects into the whole (00:56:06) world and so it's it's it's a as a (00:56:09) problem as a crisis it's clearly coming (00:56:12) to its (00:56:13) head it's clearly coming to and what is (00:56:17) incredible is (00:56:19) that what is actually taking (00:56:23) place in (00:56:27) Palestine in that beautiful area is the (00:56:32) final uh (00:56:34) project of the religious (00:56:37) zionists because the secular zionists (00:56:39) were responsible for establishing the (00:56:42) state of (00:56:43) Israel they were running it benorian all (00:56:47) these people were not religious men and (00:56:50) they were not interested in the (00:56:51) religious aspect they were concerned (00:56:53) with a secular State and then then by (00:56:55) the 1970s the Liu party the the the (00:56:58) religious sists started taking over and (00:57:02) taking over the bar now they have (00:57:03) completely entrenched themselves their (00:57:05) their scheme is very simple and they've (00:57:08) announced it and this is what is (00:57:09) incredible they have are telling us (00:57:12) exactly what they are doing they're (00:57:14) telling us and in (00:57:17) Hebrew they're telling the whole (00:57:20) everybody's got got caught up in this (00:57:22) which is this first of all that taking (00:57:25) over the West (00:57:28) Bank from the river to the sea that is (00:57:33) stated in their Manifesto and it's (00:57:36) stated in every by government ministers (00:57:40) by the Press by everybody yeah what is (00:57:43) the proof of this on what is supposed to (00:57:46) be uh land that belongs to the (00:57:49) Palestinians they have (00:57:53) 700,000 fanatical (00:57:57) religious ssts fanatical rather yeah (00:58:01) settlers in settlements that are armed (00:58:04) to the (00:58:05) teeth and they are busy evicting and (00:58:09) terrorizing the (00:58:11) Palestinians that is happening before (00:58:13) our eyes it's illegal and it's been (00:58:17) illegal for the last 30 years and the (00:58:20) West has done (00:58:21) nothing but now they're getting to the (00:58:23) point where they actually completing (00:58:26) their Pro program there they (00:58:29) are in Gaza (00:58:32) literally it finishing Gaza bombing it (00:58:37) so that there's nothing left in order to (00:58:40) get rid of the people yeah and most (00:58:43) important of all in the Holy Sanctuary (00:58:48) alaa up until a few years (00:58:51) ago the Jews were not allowed onto the (00:58:55) holy holy (00:58:57) sight and this was this was a (00:59:00) traditional Orthodox not permitting the (00:59:03) Orthodox Jew would not allow the Jews to (00:59:07) return to that until the coming of the (00:59:12) Messiah in the last few (00:59:14) years the Army has been keeping the (00:59:17) Muslims out and allowing Jews more and (00:59:20) more and more and these settlers to come (00:59:23) onto the holy sight (00:59:26) what happened on October the 7th was (00:59:28) called alaa (00:59:30) flood alaa flood the Final Act of the (00:59:36) religious (00:59:37) sists is to build the (00:59:40) temple they've already designed it (00:59:42) they've already got they built columns (00:59:44) and things every year they run through (00:59:46) the city of Jerusalem with the (00:59:49) foundation stones to the gate of the (00:59:52) holy of of of of of the Alexa (00:59:56) every (00:59:58) year this is their (01:00:01) intention and I don't think anyone alive (01:00:05) should be under any (01:00:08) misapprehension that this kind of (01:00:12) fanatical delusion that they are under (01:00:16) that they are bringing the (01:00:18) Messiah should be under underrated can I (01:00:21) ask you one final question um and this (01:00:24) is really a question about about us a (01:00:26) Muslim um and the Muslim world now we've (01:00:28) witnessed the horrible events the ethnic (01:00:31) cleansing of Gaza you've lived through (01:00:34) uh much turbulent time of the Muslim (01:00:38) ummah we've been through for the last (01:00:40) few decades maybe the last century we've (01:00:42) been through uh a lot of harm and a lot (01:00:45) of decline um do you live in hope that (01:00:48) the Muslim Umma can escape our current (01:00:51) weakness well I would question the (01:00:53) weakness for the start because I mean (01:00:55) nobody can look at what's going on in (01:00:58) Gaza yeah and see (01:01:00) the the faith and the beauty of those (01:01:04) people and the children and the way (01:01:06) they're responding to this without (01:01:09) saying alhamdulillah this is something (01:01:12) remarkable so I would I would question (01:01:15) the weakness yeah I would say that we (01:01:18) are (01:01:20) living in the age of (01:01:23) Crisis we are living at a time (01:01:27) when the whole modern (01:01:31) project is in (01:01:33) Jeopardy we are destroying the (01:01:36) environment we have the problems of (01:01:38) global warming the destruction of the (01:01:41) forests is is releasing pandemics yeah (01:01:45) we have a financial structure which is (01:01:48) insane we have extreme poverty in the (01:01:51) world we have the huge migration of (01:01:54) people (01:01:55) because of impo poverty we have states (01:02:00) in the west which are breaking up (01:02:02) into opposing factions like in America (01:02:07) where politics is becoming uh (01:02:12) completely (01:02:13) problematic we are living in a time of (01:02:16) the great (01:02:18) crisis (01:02:19) and most important of all we're living (01:02:23) at the time when the whole (01:02:25) moral rectitude of the human being is (01:02:29) being (01:02:32) undermined (01:02:33) the I always like to finish with (01:02:38) this what I consider to be the greatest (01:02:40) crime of modernity which is the (01:02:43) destruction of (01:02:45) childhood we're living at a time when (01:02:49) children are literally (01:02:52) being prepared (01:02:55) to become little (01:02:57) consumers where their childhood is being (01:03:00) robbed (01:03:01) from where they are being confused so (01:03:04) much about who they are and what their (01:03:06) identity (01:03:07) is and this process of the destruction (01:03:10) of (01:03:11) childhood is is the greatest (01:03:15) crime the humanity can actually (01:03:18) be accused (01:03:21) of I call it the dialysis of the (01:03:24) imagination (01:03:26) childhood that first seven years the (01:03:30) child is more with his maker than he is (01:03:33) with (01:03:35) us we come from him we come from him we (01:03:40) return and the children have just (01:03:43) arrived and they arrive and the Bara Is (01:03:46) So (01:03:48) Glorious that the (01:03:50) mother for 40 (01:03:52) days people just bring things to her she (01:03:55) doesn't move that baby is (01:03:59) sacred it's so full of Baraka and then (01:04:02) during that first seven years in in in (01:04:06) Islam the baby the child is there to (01:04:10) play you don't you don't force it to (01:04:12) pray you let them play what are they (01:04:15) doing they're playing with their mates (01:04:21) with their with the other children with (01:04:23) their brothers and cousins and friends (01:04:25) or rest of and they have these epic (01:04:27) games where one minute they're crying (01:04:29) the next minute they're laughing they go (01:04:31) through the business of being a child a (01:04:33) little one and then they grow up until (01:04:35) they're the leader and some of them (01:04:37) follows some of them are leaders and (01:04:38) they're all playing these epic games (01:04:40) which we human beings we grown-ups have (01:04:43) no part (01:04:45) of we don't we can't un we can't enter (01:04:50) into their imaginations because what (01:04:52) they have is pure spirit and they have (01:04:56) senses and through those senses they can (01:04:59) experience everything they can turn a a (01:05:01) piece of wood into a a wonderful sword (01:05:04) they can become a prince or you know (01:05:06) anything you can (01:05:08) imagine this is (01:05:10) childhood and then when they get to the (01:05:12) age of seven or eight they go through a (01:05:14) major (01:05:15) transformation where (01:05:18) suddenly the two sides start appearing (01:05:21) the age of discernment takes place (01:05:25) and and they start knowing what up until (01:05:28) that time they are unitive a child this (01:05:32) childhood they are at (01:05:34) one they're in the (01:05:36) moment there's no future there's no past (01:05:39) they (01:05:40) present and then they start in that (01:05:43) discernment and it's at that point (01:05:45) traditionally you teach (01:05:48) them and then when they get to 13 or 14 (01:05:51) you get the next great change which is (01:05:54) the the moment when they become your (01:05:55) friend it's the time when they become (01:05:58) Apprentice to an adult and through (01:06:01) that process when they go through the (01:06:04) most dramatic process of turning from a (01:06:06) child into a grown person mature person (01:06:11) they are their whole ambition is to (01:06:14) become an (01:06:16) adult to be like their uncle or to be a (01:06:18) soldier or to be a Craftsman or to be (01:06:21) whatever it may be but they want to (01:06:23) become that (01:06:25) what have we (01:06:27) done we've created our own consumer idea (01:06:31) of (01:06:33) childhood the grown-ups have created (01:06:36) their idea of childhood they've created (01:06:38) all these toys like these plastic toys (01:06:40) which make funny noise you know all (01:06:43) these funny noises and things and the (01:06:44) child comes and it looks at it and it (01:06:46) becomes absolutely mesmerized by (01:06:50) it and then it gets bored wants another (01:06:55) one and you have to replace it because (01:06:56) it's complete there's nothing to do with (01:06:58) it it nothing it doesn't come out of the (01:07:00) the imagination of the child it is what (01:07:02) I call the dialysis of the imagination (01:07:05) it is an external (01:07:07) imagination that is controlling (01:07:10) them and then they get bored if you (01:07:13) don't have something and now they have (01:07:15) this mobile phones they have these (01:07:18) screens which are forever engaging (01:07:22) them destroying their own (01:07:26) imaginations so they become caught into (01:07:28) this world of continuous stimulation (01:07:32) from (01:07:34) outside when they come then to the and (01:07:37) they don't create the parents are this (01:07:39) this helicopter parents they're always (01:07:41) supervising them over them they can't go (01:07:44) out they can't create their own world so (01:07:48) when they get to the age of 14 12 14 (01:07:50) when they get to that big stage where (01:07:53) they're where they're ready to to go (01:07:55) into the adulthood the journey into (01:07:57) adulthood then they make their rebellion (01:08:00) and they try to create their own society (01:08:04) and you get the Great (01:08:05) Rebellion so this is the this is the (01:08:08) thing so whenever I'm ask when I've been (01:08:10) giving a talk or anything you know what (01:08:12) should you do reclaim (01:08:16) childhood now when we talk about the (01:08:18) Muslims the family is still strong with (01:08:22) Muslims the Muslims are are still very (01:08:25) strong in their religion their (01:08:27) relationship with Almighty Allah is (01:08:29) still very strong we have wonderful (01:08:31) teachers we have wonderful shakes I I'm (01:08:35) sitting in Cambridge seeing an amazing (01:08:37) generation of young Muslims at coming to (01:08:41) the university who are intact (01:08:45) morally their grandparents and their (01:08:47) parents have done an incredible (01:08:49) job so I believe Almighty Allah has a (01:08:52) wonderful thing in store for us (01:08:55) but it is that we are living now in the (01:08:57) age where a storm is Raging around us (01:09:01) and the what is happening in in (01:09:04) Palestine in Israel is is a part of that (01:09:07) storm that is a storm for the Muslims we (01:09:11) are now living in the age of witness and (01:09:17) refuge witnessing the truth as you are (01:09:20) trying to (01:09:21) do as we are trying to do in this we're (01:09:23) trying to see this whole epic thing that (01:09:27) is happening and trying trying to (01:09:30) understand it witnessing to the (01:09:32) truth and Islam is the (01:09:37) Refuge this is the Refuge for for people (01:09:41) who are now battered by this terrifying (01:09:44) storm that is Raging around us on every (01:09:48) level so alhamdulillah as far as I (01:09:51) concerned I can only see from Almighty (01:09:53) Allah this great great compassion and (01:09:55) mercy that he's providing for (01:09:57) us and and and seeing what is happening (01:10:00) in Gaza and the people the way the (01:10:03) people are are are giving such a an (01:10:06) incredible (01:10:08) example to what is is the real the Islam (01:10:12) of the (01:10:14) heart the the love of of Almighty (01:10:17) Allah it's been a fascinating interview (01:10:19) Jaz thank you very much for your time (01:10:21) today thank you (01:10:26) please remember to subscribe to our (01:10:28) social media and YouTube channels and (01:10:30) head over to our website thinking (01:10:32) muslim.com to sign up to my Weekly (01:10:37) Newsletter