Taking A Crap On Big Diaper | Elimination Communication Expert Andrea Olson (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:00) I've talked about big pharma. I've (00:00:02) talked about big food. I have not talked (00:00:04) about big diaper. In 1957, (00:00:08) 92% of babies were potty trained by 18 (00:00:11) months old. Now, it's over 3 years old. (00:00:15) Parents were guilted into thinking that (00:00:17) they need to wait for signs of (00:00:18) readiness, like, "My child can recite (00:00:20) the ABCs. My child can stay dry in these (00:00:22) diapers." We know no other way. We've (00:00:25) lost that wisdom. It hasn't been passed (00:00:27) on. It's gone. So, I'm bringing it back. (00:00:30) [Music] (00:00:53) What if your baby didn't need diapers at (00:00:56) all? Today's guest is Andrea Olsen, mom (00:00:58) of six, author of Tiny Potty, and (00:01:01) founder of Go Diaper Free, a movement (00:01:03) that's turning the parenting world (00:01:04) upside down. She's helped millions of (00:01:07) families ditch diapers from birth. She's (00:01:09) been featured on the Today Show, (00:01:10) Parents, and Motherly. And she's here to (00:01:12) tell us why diaper culture might just be (00:01:15) one of the biggest scams in modern (00:01:17) parenting. From baby cues and potty (00:01:20) training myths to corporate agendas, and (00:01:22) what Pampers doesn't want you to know. I (00:01:24) had no idea what to expect with this (00:01:27) episode to be honest. I mean, doing an (00:01:29) entire episode on diapers seemed like it (00:01:31) could be kind of dull. And then the (00:01:33) interview happened and I was on the edge (00:01:34) of my seat the entire time. It was a (00:01:37) blast. Parents and non-parents are going (00:01:39) to be floored by this conversation. (00:01:41) Watch on the Real Alex Clark YouTube (00:01:43) channel and make sure that you (00:01:44) subscribe. I post tons of content there (00:01:46) or you can watch via the Culture (00:01:47) Apothecary Spotify. Join the cuteer (00:01:49) Facebook group to continue this (00:01:51) discussion after the show. Please (00:01:53) welcome Andrea Olsen to Culture (00:01:54) Apothecary. (00:01:58) [Music] (00:01:59) I've talked about big pharma. I've (00:02:01) talked about big food. I have not talked (00:02:03) about big diaper. Is it true that (00:02:06) diapers were not invented for (00:02:08) convenience, but actually because they (00:02:11) were part of a larger agenda? For sure. (00:02:14) I mean, you just follow the money, (00:02:16) right, with any of those things you just (00:02:17) named. I think that Big Diaper has an (00:02:20) agenda and it's not really in our favor. (00:02:22) What do you mean by that? They want us (00:02:24) dependent on their product for longer (00:02:26) and longer. I actually I live in (00:02:28) Asheville and um there's a guy who lives (00:02:30) in my town who has retired from Pampers (00:02:33) and I asked him some questions one day (00:02:35) and he basically gave me the dish on (00:02:38) diapers and how they had a really bad (00:02:40) start in America. Like nobody wanted to (00:02:42) buy them. Why? Moms at that time didn't (00:02:46) want to put paper on their babies. They (00:02:47) just didn't. They thought it would be (00:02:49) bad for their skin. (00:02:50) >> They were so right. (00:02:52) >> I know. Used to nobody got diaper rash (00:02:54) at all. No babies did. If they did, you (00:02:56) were considered a bad mom. Now it's (00:02:58) about 92 to 95% of babies get diaper (00:03:01) rash at some point in their childhood. (00:03:03) >> What were moms before diapers, before (00:03:05) wipes, what were they using to wipe (00:03:07) their baby? So they would just use like (00:03:10) a wet cloth, you know, and and they (00:03:13) would use cloth diapers and I actually (00:03:16) read a parenting manual from the 50s and (00:03:19) it's like any kind of catching this in a (00:03:21) little chamber pot is bonus points, you (00:03:23) know, and then once that baby's walking, (00:03:25) you toilet train them. You don't use the (00:03:27) diapers anymore at all. And cloth (00:03:29) diapers are actually a pretty new (00:03:30) invention. It's like a couple hundred (00:03:32) years. Disposables were invented in the (00:03:34) 60s and that's when women were so like, (00:03:38) you know, they were set on cloth. They (00:03:39) were used to cloth. They didn't want to (00:03:41) do disposables. So, here's where the (00:03:44) collusion comes in. Um, they hired a (00:03:47) pediatrician to do a study, a scientific (00:03:50) study. And if you read it, which you (00:03:52) can, it's by P. Barry Brazzleton. If you (00:03:55) read it, you'll see that there's nothing (00:03:57) scientific about it, but it kind of (00:04:00) guilts parents into waiting for signs of (00:04:03) readiness for potty training. So, with (00:04:06) that study coming out in the '60s, (00:04:08) diaper sales started going up. Parents (00:04:11) were convinced to wait longer and longer (00:04:13) to potty train. And that's how it began. (00:04:15) And now we've doubled the potty training (00:04:17) age in just a couple of generations (00:04:20) because of that study, because of (00:04:21) Pampers saying, "Hey moms, now you can (00:04:23) get out of the house. You can go join (00:04:24) the workforce. You don't have to do um (00:04:27) diaper laundry all the time at home (00:04:28) anymore." (00:04:29) >> I was going to say you saying that (00:04:30) diapers were invented in the 60s, (00:04:33) disposable diapers, which I didn't know (00:04:35) it was actually that recent. (00:04:36) >> Yeah. that correlates with the sexual (00:04:38) revolution and women, you know, being (00:04:41) told you're not going to feel fulfilled (00:04:43) if you're not totally in the workforce. (00:04:45) You know, being at home is never going (00:04:46) to be enough for you. That's interesting (00:04:48) to me. So, do you think that that kind (00:04:50) of plays into that of of trying to get (00:04:52) more women to be cogs in the machine of (00:04:54) the workforce? (00:04:55) >> Absolutely. 100%. And I think with that (00:04:59) they started to speak to the women (00:05:01) woman's heart like how can we convince (00:05:03) them to buy these diapers and to put (00:05:04) them in and keep their babies in them (00:05:06) longer and just convince them that they (00:05:09) were a good thing and they said well (00:05:10) these are better for your baby's skin (00:05:11) than cloth. They tried all the different (00:05:13) angles but it's that one scientific (00:05:15) study that really did it that started (00:05:17) this whole sound bite that you should (00:05:20) wait for readiness or you're going to (00:05:22) psychologically damage your child. How (00:05:24) much money could a family save annually (00:05:26) if they switch to elimination (00:05:28) communication or cloth diapers? About (00:05:31) $2,000 a kid. So, I have six kids and (00:05:34) I've saved about $12,000 over the course (00:05:37) of all of them. I use diapers for the (00:05:40) first year, but after that, um, I take (00:05:42) them out of diapers when they're (00:05:43) walking, just like our great (00:05:45) grandparents did. I do use disposables (00:05:47) cuz I think they signal better in them, (00:05:49) but I'll reuse them over and over until (00:05:50) the tabs fall off. So, like they don't (00:05:52) want to go in them. They'll signal more (00:05:54) loudly in them. And so, I'm reusing a (00:05:58) lot of them, but I'd say roughly like (00:06:00) you'd spend about $3,000 a kid on (00:06:02) diapers if you didn't do EC. If you do (00:06:04) it, you're done in about a third of the (00:06:06) time. What is EC or elimination (00:06:09) communication for those who have never (00:06:10) heard of it? This is crazy, but think (00:06:12) about what did people do before diapers? (00:06:15) You know, what did people do before (00:06:17) formula? What do people do before car (00:06:20) seats and strollers and things? You (00:06:22) know, when we really think about what (00:06:23) happened before diapers, if you believe (00:06:25) in God, God designed us perfectly. So, (00:06:27) we come out into this world signaling (00:06:29) for our needs and we we come out asking (00:06:32) to be fed, to be held, to be pottied, to (00:06:34) to go hygienically, etc. If you just (00:06:37) believe in science, scientifically, (00:06:38) we're born with sphincter control. We (00:06:40) have hormones that keep us dry when (00:06:42) we're sleeping. There's all this stuff (00:06:44) developmentally that just a baby is born (00:06:48) completely ready to use the toilet and (00:06:50) signaling to do so. So EC is basically a (00:06:52) modern take on that where we are using (00:06:55) the baby signals and the baby's natural (00:06:57) development and like hormones and all (00:06:59) that other stuff. Just big hodgepodge of (00:07:01) perfect setup to help them do what they (00:07:04) can't do by themselves until they can do (00:07:06) it by themselves. So, we basically team (00:07:08) up with our babies from birth, helping (00:07:10) them to go to the potty hygienically (00:07:12) until they're walking and then we teach (00:07:14) them how to do it themselves. And um for (00:07:17) example, I've never had to potty train (00:07:19) my kids because I did this with them. It (00:07:22) just naturally wrapped up when they (00:07:24) started walking. (00:07:24) >> So, you are saying that it's possible (00:07:26) for a newborn baby to know how to poop (00:07:28) on the toilet. (00:07:29) >> So, newborn babies don't know toilets, (00:07:31) but they do know that they don't want to (00:07:33) soil themselves. So, have you ever (00:07:35) picked up a puppy, like a brand new (00:07:36) puppy, and you hold them for a while and (00:07:38) they're all cute and everything, and (00:07:39) then they start to wrigle and they (00:07:40) really wrigle and they want out of your (00:07:42) arms. So, you put them on your carpet (00:07:44) and they pee all over it, right? That (00:07:46) was a sign, that wriggling that they (00:07:48) needed to go. Well, all mammals have (00:07:51) this instinct to not go on another (00:07:53) being, to not go in their den, their (00:07:56) sleep space, to not go on themselves. If (00:07:59) we didn't have that instinct then a long (00:08:02) time ago we would have died out as a (00:08:03) species. (00:08:04) >> Like think about it cave babies being (00:08:07) and pooping everywhere. If there would (00:08:08) have been disease and everything else. (00:08:10) So we come into this world like (00:08:13) absolutely like not knowing what a (00:08:16) toilet is but having this really strong (00:08:18) set of instincts that we don't want to (00:08:21) it's it sounds we don't want to pee on (00:08:22) each other. We don't want to we don't (00:08:24) want to do that to each other. Like all (00:08:25) mammals do that. No other mammal wears (00:08:27) diapers, right? That's true. Why? In (00:08:32) fact, no diaper was used as a toilet (00:08:34) really until the last century. They were (00:08:37) always used as a backup for when we (00:08:40) couldn't when we're nomadic and we're (00:08:42) walking around or when we just couldn't (00:08:44) do it or were busy with other kids or (00:08:47) whatever. It was never meant to be (00:08:49) toilet. (00:08:50) >> In the pioneer days when you've got (00:08:51) people in these covered wagons going (00:08:53) across the country with babies. (00:08:55) >> Yeah. What were those babies going to (00:08:56) the bathroom in? (00:08:57) >> I mean, they were pointing and shooting. (00:08:59) They were pick them up. This is crazy. (00:09:02) Lift up the dress, go like this, and (00:09:03) then aim into a bush. (00:09:05) >> I just I guess I just assumed like these (00:09:07) babies were wearing cloth diapers or (00:09:08) something. I didn't know that that was (00:09:10) such a recent phenomenon. This stat (00:09:12) freaked me out. In 1957, (00:09:15) 92% of babies were potty trained by 18 (00:09:18) months old. Now, it's over 3 years old. (00:09:22) And that's an average. Three years is an (00:09:23) average. not happened. (00:09:25) >> The diapers were invented. The study was (00:09:27) done. And parents were guilted into (00:09:29) thinking that they need to wait for (00:09:30) signs of readiness like my child can (00:09:32) recite the ABCs. My child can stay dry (00:09:35) in these diapers, which is crazy. Um, my (00:09:39) child can manipulate their clothing (00:09:41) later and later. Is it true that no (00:09:44) diaper has truly ever biodegraded? It's (00:09:47) true. And one of the statistics I have (00:09:49) is in 2009, there's not been a lot of (00:09:51) studying on it, but 2009, 27.4 billion (00:09:55) disposable diapers were landfilled in (00:09:57) America alone. Oh my gosh. Full of pee (00:10:00) and poop. And no diaper has ever (00:10:03) biodegraded since they were invented in (00:10:04) the '60s. So, they're all full. And (00:10:07) you're supposed to dump them and rinse (00:10:08) them, even the disposables, before you (00:10:10) throw them away. This is like highly (00:10:12) toxic gels and chemicals and everything (00:10:14) else. Even with the natural diapers (00:10:16) today, those don't biodegrade either. (00:10:18) So, every single diaper that's ever been (00:10:20) used is just sitting there. And I kind (00:10:22) of theorize that maybe someday they'll (00:10:24) all off gas and kill us all and just (00:10:27) something terrible will happen because (00:10:28) it's like it just isn't sanitary or (00:10:31) safe. It's the third largest part of our (00:10:33) waist waist stream and waste management (00:10:35) cannot figure out how to recycle or do (00:10:38) anything with these buried diapers. I'm (00:10:42) going to be honest with you. When I have (00:10:43) heard about elimination communication, (00:10:45) I've always said guarantee that person (00:10:47) has one child. This is their first (00:10:49) child. They have no one else screaming (00:10:52) running around the house that they have (00:10:53) to take care of. That's why they are (00:10:54) zeroed in on that baby and they know (00:10:56) when it has to go to the bathroom. There (00:10:57) is no way that this is parents of (00:10:59) multiple children. However, you yourself (00:11:02) have six kids that you have managed to (00:11:06) potty train without doing it in the (00:11:08) traditional sense. How did you do this? (00:11:10) >> Well, yes, and it's true. I should have (00:11:11) had three in diapers at the same time at (00:11:13) one point cuz I had my middle four (00:11:15) really close together. Um, it's all I've (00:11:18) ever known. So, I never wanted kids. I (00:11:21) heard from a friend of a friend that (00:11:22) they like pottied their baby into a sink (00:11:24) and didn't use diapers before I ever (00:11:26) considered having kids. And I was like, (00:11:27) "Cool, that sounds good. I might do it (00:11:29) if that were the case because diapers (00:11:31) are gross." And I remember babysitting. (00:11:34) Like, I never wanted to do that. Then I (00:11:36) found myself pregnant in my early 30s (00:11:39) and I was like, "What was that thing? I (00:11:41) have to do that thing because I'm not (00:11:42) changing a poopy diaper." And with my (00:11:44) first child, I did not change a poopy (00:11:45) diaper. It was amazing. He was the whole (00:11:47) time. The whole time he was he pooped on (00:11:49) the floor one time when he was two and a (00:11:50) half cuz he was sick. What about (00:11:52) traveling in a car? We traveled with (00:11:54) him. I went to Thailand. We traveled in (00:11:56) tuk tuks. We traveled in boats. We (00:11:57) traveled in airplanes. We traveled in (00:11:59) cars. Um, I would carry a little potty (00:12:02) with me or I would use the bathroom that (00:12:04) all the adults used. So, it's not like a (00:12:07) constant hovering and going, "Oh, I need (00:12:09) to catch every single thing." Like, I (00:12:10) definitely did not do this crazy intense (00:12:13) helicopter thing cuz that backfires and (00:12:16) nobody has the energy for that. But from (00:12:18) the beginning, I was like committed to (00:12:22) my child is asking for help with this. (00:12:25) I'm going to try to tune in and hear (00:12:27) what he wants. Like if he's hungry, I'm (00:12:29) not going to ignore him and be like, (00:12:30) "Oh, whatever. You'll be fine." You (00:12:32) know, like I'm going to give him the (00:12:34) breast, you know? I'm going to wear it, (00:12:36) make sure he feels safe and secure, and (00:12:38) then when he needs to potty, I'm going (00:12:40) to offer it to him. So, it's always like (00:12:41) an offering. And um yeah, when I had (00:12:44) another baby and another baby, I would (00:12:45) just have the older ones help me. This (00:12:47) is what we do in our family. Let's potty (00:12:49) the baby. And boy, do they love it. I (00:12:51) have pictures of like two and a half, (00:12:53) three-year-old kids with the little baby (00:12:55) on the little top hat potty in their (00:12:57) lap. pottying them and they'll like (00:12:59) carry them around and it was like (00:13:00) they're part of the family. How do you (00:13:02) know when a baby needs to go? I mean, (00:13:04) what signs are you looking for? (00:13:06) >> So, the biggest one is sudden fussiness. (00:13:09) So, if anybody's like starting EC and (00:13:10) they have a brand new zero to four month (00:13:12) baby, I always say right when they wake (00:13:14) up, potty them because the antidiuretic (00:13:17) hormone wears off. It wears off for you. (00:13:19) For me, like you need to pee in the (00:13:21) morning, right when you wake up. Yep. So (00:13:22) do I. So, right in the morning, that (00:13:26) happens right after they wake up from (00:13:27) any nap. Um, the hormone wears off, the (00:13:30) bladder fills, and then it's time to (00:13:32) offer, we call it a potty tunity. It's (00:13:34) just a chance to go to the body. They (00:13:35) don't have to, but it's an opportunity. (00:13:37) And, um, so we like to do that one. And (00:13:39) then after you nurse, anybody listening (00:13:42) to this, like next time you nurse your (00:13:44) baby, 5 to 10 minutes after you're done, (00:13:46) they're going to fuss. That's a sign (00:13:48) that they need to go to the bathroom. (00:13:50) and you just hold them over something (00:13:51) and you make the running water sound. (00:13:54) That's what they do all over the world (00:13:56) where they still do this because they (00:13:58) don't have diapers. Um that's what we do (00:14:00) with EC. You make this sound association (00:14:04) and you hold them over something and (00:14:05) they go and it's amazing like the first (00:14:08) catch you get this high and you're like (00:14:09) whoa I can't not know that now. So I'm (00:14:12) going to have to do this. I'm going to (00:14:13) have to really I want to figure this (00:14:15) out. So, like wakeups, first fuss after (00:14:18) feeding, and then I like to get the (00:14:20) poops. I call these the easy catches (00:14:21) because they're like you're basically (00:14:23) catching it in the potty before you (00:14:24) start this two-way communication, you (00:14:27) know? So, with poops, I think everybody (00:14:30) with a baby knows when their baby's (00:14:32) pooping or like has this feeling or can (00:14:35) tell when they make that face where (00:14:36) they're like, "Is that a smile or is (00:14:38) that, you know, something else?" (00:14:40) >> And um they'll start to bear down. You (00:14:43) have time. Babies are born with (00:14:44) sphincter control. So, you just say, (00:14:46) "Wait, take off the diaper, potty them, (00:14:49) and it's truly that easy to kind of get (00:14:51) your feet wet into it." (00:14:52) >> You literally say, "Wait to a newborn." (00:14:55) >> Oh, yeah. (00:14:56) >> Oh my gosh. This is like, (00:14:58) >> and they start like within 2 weeks, I'm (00:15:01) telling you, Alex, within two weeks, (00:15:02) they start to look to you before they (00:15:04) need to go. They are so easily poop (00:15:06) trained. This is crazy. (00:15:08) >> If everybody knew this, the diaper (00:15:09) companies would surely like lose (00:15:11) billions of dollars. I get that not (00:15:13) everybody stays at home and stares at (00:15:14) their baby all the time and that's (00:15:15) literally not what we do. But if you (00:15:18) just have you're on leave and you have a (00:15:19) baby around and you're just like hanging (00:15:21) out anyway, just try those three things (00:15:24) and you'll catch something and you'll be (00:15:25) like, "Whoa." And the baby will look at (00:15:27) you and say, "Wow, I feel heard." They (00:15:30) are instantly less fussy. They are like, (00:15:33) "You're building strong attachment, (00:15:36) secure attachment, right? And everybody, (00:15:38) it's all the rage right now. We need to (00:15:40) have securely attached kids. How do we (00:15:41) raise them? If we're neglecting their (00:15:44) cries for anything, they're going to (00:15:46) start to be um what is it? Anxious (00:15:49) attachment, right? That's that's what I (00:15:50) have. Like we were all kind of messed up (00:15:52) us adults these days and we had our (00:15:54) wounding. So, we want to do it right. (00:15:56) Right. (00:15:56) >> So, we want to not have an anxious (00:15:58) attached kid or avoid an attached kid. (00:16:00) We want to have a secure attachment. And (00:16:03) so, when we try our best, like we don't (00:16:05) have to be perfect, but when we try our (00:16:07) best to say, "Okay, you're fussing. you (00:16:10) just ate. You also just woke up, (00:16:13) >> right? (00:16:14) >> You must need to pee or you're bearing (00:16:15) down like you must need to poop. And (00:16:17) they start to feel heard. They feel (00:16:19) safe. They feel like they can trust you (00:16:21) to help them with things until they're (00:16:23) able to do it themselves. And it's a (00:16:26) really beautiful connection. (00:16:31) Remember those '9s snacks like Puppy (00:16:33) Chow and Reese's Puff cereal? They (00:16:35) tasted like you were eating straight up (00:16:36) candy before breakfast? Yeah, those were (00:16:38) the days. 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(00:18:34) Use code Alex to get 25% off your first (00:18:36) order at adeleaturcosmetics.com. (00:18:38) That's code Alex for 25% off your first (00:18:41) order at adeleaturalcosmetics.com. (00:18:43) Adele, natural beauty done right. (00:18:48) So, is this something that that a parent (00:18:50) has to be doing, you know, at the start (00:18:53) from being a newborn or can you at any (00:18:55) point from baby to toddler years start (00:18:58) elimination communication? You can start (00:18:59) it at any age. I help parents any age (00:19:02) between zero and 18 months. When you get (00:19:04) into 16 and 17 months, it's more like (00:19:06) developmentally appropriate to do potty (00:19:08) training because it's really (00:19:09) straightforward. And I do teach that, (00:19:11) too. And it's a different thing. It's (00:19:13) the parent saying, "You've been in (00:19:15) diapers. It's time to be out of (00:19:17) diapers." With EC, it's more like, (00:19:19) "We're going to do this together." So, (00:19:21) how do you start doing this? Let's say (00:19:22) you've got, let's say you've got a (00:19:24) 14-month-old. How are you going to start (00:19:25) doing this? So, the cool thing with a (00:19:27) 14-month-old is they're in the monastery (00:19:29) period for it's a sensitive period, (00:19:31) right, for um potty learning. So, (00:19:34) basically 12 to 18 months. In a (00:19:36) traditional monastery class, they'll put (00:19:37) them all in cloth training pants. (00:19:39) They'll have them all go potty together. (00:19:41) They'll all be potty trained by 18 (00:19:42) months if you're in a traditional (00:19:44) monastery class these days. There aren't (00:19:46) very many of those left. But, um so what (00:19:48) you would do is you would start to do (00:19:50) the easy catches. You do the morning (00:19:51) pee. You'd offer. You'd start offering (00:19:53) at predictable times. You would also do (00:19:56) observation. So, um I have Tiny Andes is (00:20:00) one of my companies and I have these (00:20:01) little like turquoise blue training (00:20:03) pants that show immediately when they're (00:20:05) wet. So, I would put them in those cuz (00:20:07) they're walking. They're going to be (00:20:09) going around your house and I would just (00:20:10) write down on a piece of paper how often (00:20:12) they go pee. So, now I know. And at 14 (00:20:16) months old, it's probably going to be (00:20:17) like every 45 minutes to an hour. With a (00:20:19) newborn, it's like every 15 minutes. So, (00:20:21) like don't ever try to catch all of (00:20:23) them, but you're going to get a sense of (00:20:25) their natural timing. And then at a (00:20:27) diaper change, when they start to poop, (00:20:29) when they wake up, you're going to (00:20:30) offer. And we sort of get into it that (00:20:34) way. And then within a couple months, (00:20:36) you're going to wrap it up. You're just (00:20:38) going to teach them the things they need (00:20:39) to know. This is how you push down your (00:20:41) pants. This is how you wipe. This is how (00:20:43) you put new pants on. You know, I cover (00:20:45) all this in detail in my book like (00:20:46) broken down by age because it's really (00:20:48) different between a newborn and a young (00:20:50) toddler. But the cool thing at 14 months (00:20:52) is you get to start and finish like (00:20:54) within the a few months. And so it takes (00:20:58) a little longer than potty training at (00:21:00) that age, but your kid is still like (00:21:02) connecting long-term memory synapses, (00:21:06) right? So they're still in that (00:21:07) developmental stage. It just takes a (00:21:09) little bit longer. But it's really cool (00:21:11) cuz it's before the no stage. I don't (00:21:14) know if you know any toddlers. (00:21:15) >> Yeah. (00:21:15) >> But man, I've got a two and a (00:21:16) half-year-old right now and she would be (00:21:18) so hard to potty train. She is like, (00:21:20) "No, I will do it myself." And then get (00:21:23) really frustrated, have a tantrum. (00:21:25) >> So, we're doing it before all of that (00:21:27) happens. Did you say that a newborn baby (00:21:29) goes pee every 15 minutes? (00:21:31) >> Some of them do. (00:21:32) >> Okay. So, then how do you live life and (00:21:34) then do the EC? So, I just do the wake (00:21:37) up first fuss after feeding and then I (00:21:38) potty him one more time before nap (00:21:41) >> and then really just skip the rest. I (00:21:43) let the diaper catch the rest. (00:21:44) >> Okay. So then that's where it's a cloth (00:21:46) diaper. (00:21:46) >> Cloth or disposable, whatever works. (00:21:49) >> Okay. Okay. That's what I I was (00:21:50) confused. (00:21:50) >> After baby one, I got to be honest, I (00:21:52) used disposables. I used compostables (00:21:54) for a while. Like I just couldn't keep (00:21:57) up with cloth diapering even though we (00:21:58) weren't cleaning poop, (00:22:00) >> right? (00:22:00) >> And again, I noticed that they stayed (00:22:02) drier than the cloth diapers because you (00:22:05) got a baby who's crying, they're (00:22:06) screaming their head off, and you're a (00:22:07) new mom. You're like, "Oh my gosh, what (00:22:09) do you need?" You're trying to think of (00:22:10) the Dunston language. You saw that on (00:22:13) Oprah. You're like, "Okay, what does (00:22:14) this cry mean? We'll try the breast. (00:22:16) We'll try swaddling. We'll try Harvey (00:22:18) Karp's four S's, 5 S's, whatever. We're (00:22:20) going to shush and swaddle." And it's (00:22:22) crazy, right? You try everything to get (00:22:24) the baby to stop crying. And then you (00:22:25) check their diaper and they have pooped (00:22:27) or peed. And you're like, "Oh, you were (00:22:29) crying to get changed." But if you (00:22:30) rewind a few moments, they were crying (00:22:32) to get you to take the diaper off so (00:22:35) that they go they could go hygienically. (00:22:37) >> Okay. (00:22:37) >> Like in alignment with their very strong (00:22:39) instinct to not soil themselves. (00:22:41) >> Okay. But so even people that are doing (00:22:43) full-time elimination communication, (00:22:46) it's not every time throughout the day (00:22:48) they go to the bathroom, you're trying (00:22:49) to do it EC, they're still wearing (00:22:50) diapers. They're still wearing them. And (00:22:53) that point I was making is just like (00:22:55) they don't want to do it so much more in (00:22:58) certain kinds of diapers versus others. (00:23:00) So you want to choose the one as your (00:23:02) backup that they signal the best in. And (00:23:05) then usually it's like super fast. You (00:23:07) offer the pee. You offer for them to go (00:23:08) pee. They go, "You put the same diaper (00:23:10) back on them and you move on with your (00:23:12) day." Like, it saves so much time. Okay, (00:23:14) people think I was meeting with a (00:23:16) customer this morning while I'm in town. (00:23:18) I was like, "Let's meet up." And I met (00:23:19) with a couple of customers. And one of (00:23:20) them was like, "Yeah, I haven't started (00:23:22) yet. I have a 10-month-old." And I was (00:23:23) like, "What's holding you back? Like, (00:23:25) why don't you just start?" She's like, (00:23:26) "I don't know. I'm just so used to (00:23:27) changing diapers and to doing this." And (00:23:30) I was like, "Okay, next time your baby (00:23:32) wakes up, just do it. just try it one (00:23:35) time and you'll be amazed. Like it'll (00:23:37) it'll work. And then from there, you get (00:23:39) to pick and choose. Like you can do (00:23:41) super low bar EC and still not have to (00:23:44) potty train. (00:23:45) >> Okay. So, there's levels to it. There (00:23:46) are some women who are home and they are (00:23:48) every time their kid has to go, they're (00:23:49) like (00:23:50) >> making sure they go in the toilet. But (00:23:51) then there are some people that are only (00:23:53) doing it a few times a day. I have one (00:23:55) podcast episode on the Good Dree (00:23:57) podcast. It's called Super Part-Time EC. (00:23:59) And it's about this teacher who read my (00:24:01) book and was like, "What do I do? I have (00:24:03) my kid in daycare from nine to six every (00:24:05) day. And so I coached her to go, you (00:24:08) know, have them go before, have them go (00:24:09) after, talk to them during daycare. (00:24:11) You're not gonna, you're going to use (00:24:12) the diaper instead. Do EC at home. What (00:24:17) anytime your child's at home, just do it (00:24:19) exactly as I teach. Like you're going to (00:24:20) just be responding. You're going to know (00:24:22) their timing and you're going to go, (00:24:23) "Okay, it's been like 40 minutes. You're (00:24:25) fussing. I'm going to offer the potty (00:24:28) because there's literally nothing else (00:24:29) it could be." Yeah. (00:24:30) >> Right. And so she did it that way. And (00:24:32) then when the daycare allowed her, which (00:24:34) is so they used to daycare, like daycare (00:24:38) law, it's not a law, but they used to (00:24:40) potty train our kids for us in the '9s, (00:24:42) and now they're like, "You can't let (00:24:44) your kid be here without diapers until (00:24:46) they're two or three." So like, we have (00:24:47) conflict there. (00:24:49) >> But if you work with them, and I worked (00:24:50) with a lot of people with their daycare, (00:24:52) you can find a nice middle ground, and (00:24:55) they'll be like, "Okay, when they're (00:24:56) two." So this particular woman when she (00:24:58) w her kid was two, she did a potty (00:25:01) training experience after doing it (00:25:02) part-time, super part-time. She said it (00:25:05) was she quote unquote joyful. It was (00:25:08) blissful. Now, how many potty training (00:25:10) stories do we ever hear where it's like (00:25:12) a blissful experience? (00:25:14) >> Yeah. Never. (00:25:14) >> It's never. It's the opposite. It's (00:25:16) terrible. You have literally only given (00:25:18) them the diaper for years because that's (00:25:20) what you've been told to do by your (00:25:22) doctor, by your mom, by whoever. (00:25:26) then you're going to be like, "Hey, you (00:25:27) have to go in the toilet now." And (00:25:28) they're terrified. So like we're we are (00:25:31) setting them up for failure. All of us, (00:25:33) ourselves and them for failure. Instead, (00:25:35) when we do it this way, we're doing an (00:25:37) exposure technique. We're exposing them (00:25:38) to the toilet at least once a day. Just (00:25:41) whatever you have the capacity for. And (00:25:43) then when we get to the point where the (00:25:45) daycare allows it, we do the potty (00:25:47) training. And it was joyful. It was like (00:25:48) one or two days. She was like, "No big (00:25:50) deal." And then her child would go to (00:25:52) school without a diaper. So, it's it's a (00:25:55) thing that holds a lot of parents back (00:25:57) because like what you mentioned, we've (00:25:59) got moms in the workforce doing (00:26:00) nineto-fives. So, how do they do this? (00:26:03) How do they raise a securely attached (00:26:05) child as well? It's going to be harder, (00:26:08) right? So, we have to get creative. So, (00:26:10) I say just do as much as you can. Talk (00:26:13) to your child about what's going to (00:26:14) happen. It's a backup while you're at (00:26:16) daycare. But a lot of kids will ask the (00:26:19) daycare workers to take them. (00:26:20) >> Yeah. (00:26:21) >> So, it kind of backfires on the daycare (00:26:22) workers. You're just like, (00:26:23) >> "So, so how do you go from EC with an (00:26:27) infant to EC with a walking toddler?" (00:26:31) >> So, it gets a little rough in there. I (00:26:33) have I have a really good example for (00:26:35) you. Like when we lived in mud huts, (00:26:37) right, intact community. Like I've went (00:26:39) to Ghana like 25 years ago. Totally (00:26:41) lived like that. When the babies were (00:26:44) crawling, they no longer did the point (00:26:46) and shoot at all. Like they no longer (00:26:48) potty their babies. That baby would (00:26:50) crawl. Well, they would pee in the mud (00:26:51) hut. the parent would chew them out, you (00:26:53) know, they would crawl outside, then (00:26:55) they would crawl further, and then (00:26:56) they're starting to walk. They would (00:26:58) walk to the place where everybody goes (00:26:59) potty, and they would go with the other (00:27:01) kids to go potty where everyone goes. We (00:27:03) live in the modern world, we've got (00:27:05) carpets, we've got clothing, all of that (00:27:07) stuff. So, it gets a little bumpy during (00:27:09) the crawling months. You can imagine (00:27:11) they're like, "Well, I could just crawl (00:27:13) away." So, they're going to pee in their (00:27:14) diaper and then they're going to crawl (00:27:15) away, but they still have it on them. (00:27:17) >> Uhhuh. (00:27:18) >> So, it becomes a thing of where the (00:27:19) parent just sticks to it. just stick to (00:27:22) the what I call the four easy catches (00:27:23) and just get the morning one, get the (00:27:25) poop. Even if you're just catching like (00:27:26) one a day, which has happened to me, (00:27:28) just stick with it. And once they have (00:27:30) totally mastered whatever they're (00:27:32) working on, which you don't know until (00:27:34) after the fact ever with parenting, oh, (00:27:37) they were cutting a tooth or oh, they (00:27:38) were learning how to say mommy. When (00:27:40) they're past that, they'll get back on (00:27:42) track. But it's really up to the parent (00:27:43) to like hold fast on it. Like, this is (00:27:45) what we're doing. This diaper is a (00:27:47) backup. This is not a toilet and I'm (00:27:49) going to use it until you're walking and (00:27:52) we can stop using them. So, I mean step (00:27:55) by step logistically, (00:27:57) what happens when you are on a plane or (00:27:59) on a train or on a bus or you're in a (00:28:02) car on a road trip and you've got this (00:28:03) little, you call it the top hat potty (00:28:05) that you're sitting on your lap and (00:28:06) you're holding your baby above it. They (00:28:08) go in it and then what do you do? How do (00:28:10) you dispose of it? I mean, logistically. (00:28:12) So, I had one real go pretty viral where (00:28:15) I'm potting a newborn on an airplane and (00:28:17) breast breastfed milk doesn't smell. It (00:28:21) has no smell. It's like pretty (00:28:22) non-toxic. So, like she went in it. I (00:28:26) put the top hat potty between my feet (00:28:28) just still at the air in the in the (00:28:29) airline seat and I put it down there. I (00:28:31) held it between my feet so it didn't (00:28:32) spill. I put her flat on her back. A (00:28:35) baby held in this position for EC is in (00:28:38) a low squat. So, everybody's seen the (00:28:39) unicorn pooping commercial about the (00:28:41) Squatty Potty. It makes it easy, but it (00:28:43) also makes it come out clean. So, like (00:28:45) really didn't need a wiper. Put her on (00:28:46) her back, put her diaper back on her, (00:28:48) and then passed her to my partner. And (00:28:50) then I got up, went to the laboratory, (00:28:54) pulled the little cotton part out of the (00:28:57) way, dumped it into the toilet, put some (00:29:00) water in it from the sink, swished it (00:29:02) around, dumped it into the toilet, wiped (00:29:04) it with paper towel, back to my seat. (00:29:06) Oh, flushed it. and then back to my (00:29:07) sleep my seat. And so people criticize (00:29:09) me. They're like, "Why didn't you just (00:29:10) make her go in a diaper?" And I'm like, (00:29:13) "Where would I have changed her?" (00:29:15) >> Right? (00:29:15) >> Because, you know, that would have been (00:29:16) all up her back and I would had to (00:29:18) change her whole outfit. So, um, the (00:29:21) other thing is like anytime I go to a (00:29:23) restaurant or a store or whatever, and (00:29:25) it really depends on the age of my baby, (00:29:26) but typically I'll offer the potty in (00:29:28) the car because it's like I know this (00:29:32) toilet and they know this toilet and (00:29:33) we're going to have like a really (00:29:34) discreet potty session. And so I'll hold (00:29:36) the top hat between my legs, have them (00:29:38) go, and then if it's just pee, I just (00:29:41) pour it into the grass or onto the (00:29:43) concrete. Just like if a dog did it, (00:29:45) would it evaporate? Okay, fine. If it's (00:29:47) poop, I will usually just bring it in (00:29:50) and go to the toilet and dump it just (00:29:53) like I described in the airplane. So (00:29:56) sometimes I'll put it in the bottom of (00:29:57) the stroller. Um, sometimes if I'm in (00:30:00) Carline at school, for example, it has (00:30:02) happened where a kid has pooped in the (00:30:03) toilet. Um, I will wrap it up. I put it (00:30:07) into a Starbucks cup one time and I (00:30:09) sound like I go to Starbucks all the (00:30:10) time. I do not go to Starbucks anymore. (00:30:12) I'm way past that. But back in the day, (00:30:14) I had a cup in there and I put it over (00:30:16) it and I, you know, put the lid on it (00:30:17) and then I wrapped it all in a plastic (00:30:19) bag and we made it home and it wasn't (00:30:21) that bad. But typically there's a (00:30:23) bathroom nearby no matter where you are, (00:30:25) right? And like if you're hiking, what (00:30:27) would you do if you had to poop? (00:30:29) >> You just leave it out there. (00:30:30) >> You just leave it out there. You (00:30:31) probably dig a hole and then cover it up (00:30:32) like you're supposed to. Um, I don't (00:30:34) know. We just figure it out. We find (00:30:36) ways. But what I like to do is like get (00:30:38) to a place, potty, then I can shop and (00:30:41) the baby's not going to fuss. I can put (00:30:42) them in the carrier. They're going to be (00:30:43) relaxed. And then when we leave, I potty (00:30:46) them in my car again. So, I'll either (00:30:48) use the public toilet before and after a (00:30:51) shop or the car toilet before and after (00:30:53) the shop. Now, this sounds like it takes (00:30:55) a ton of time. Like, anything would take (00:30:57) forever, but it actually takes a lot of (00:30:59) things off my plate. I don't have to (00:31:01) find a changing table. I don't have to (00:31:03) worry about disgusting public toilets. I (00:31:05) don't have to clean a blow up a blowout (00:31:07) off of my baby's body. I don't have to (00:31:09) clean up a car seat. So, like doing this (00:31:12) before and after takes me a few minutes (00:31:14) and it helps us have like a really (00:31:16) relaxed, chill shopping experience. And (00:31:18) then one thing I want to add about baby (00:31:20) wearing, when babies like try to get out (00:31:22) of the baby carrier, that means that (00:31:24) they need to go to the bathroom usually. (00:31:26) >> Oh, wow. Wow. So, in a store, I'll just (00:31:28) strap them into my baby carrier, walk (00:31:29) around, and then if they start to get (00:31:31) fussy, I just take them to the public (00:31:32) toilet. That's a really cool tool (00:31:34) because it's like instant signal maker (00:31:36) is having them in the carrier. (00:31:41) If you're like me, you want a clean (00:31:43) home, but you also want to live long (00:31:44) enough to enjoy it. I was using cleaners (00:31:46) that smelled like a meth lab exploded in (00:31:48) a Bath & Body Works. 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It is the (00:33:02) first supplement of its kind, packed (00:33:03) with black kale extract from central (00:33:05) Italy, aka the Beverly Hills of produce, (00:33:07) green tea, and several other natural (00:33:09) items that actually help your body (00:33:11) eliminate this nonsense. Get early (00:33:13) access to this new launch. Get a head (00:33:14) start on cleaning house from the inside (00:33:16) out. Go to utsy.com/alex (00:33:18) code lowtox for 30% off. Get a free (00:33:20) detox guide from Dr. Peter Kazolski, a (00:33:22) man who probably hasn't touched (00:33:24) polyester since the Bush administration. (00:33:26) That's utsy.com/alex code lowtox for 30% (00:33:29) off. (00:33:32) Is it true that diaper companies funded (00:33:35) research to delay potty training? (00:33:37) >> Yes. Um it's called the Pampers (00:33:39) Institute and they help to write um my (00:33:43) stepmom became a nurse a couple dozen (00:33:46) years ago and her medical text said that (00:33:48) they don't have sphincter control till (00:33:50) they're 18 months old and that's (00:33:51) absolutely false. Absolutely false. (00:33:54) There's there's no way because I've (00:33:55) helped over a million babies do this. (00:33:57) Okay? I have seen it with my own six (00:34:01) kids. Babies are born with sphincter (00:34:03) control. They will hold it till you get (00:34:06) the diaper off. They're born with it. So (00:34:08) I I met this guy and he worked for (00:34:10) Pampers for like 30 years. He holds the (00:34:13) patent for um the newborn diaper that (00:34:15) has a little cutout part. (00:34:16) >> Yeah. And so he and I met cuz I was (00:34:19) like, "Oh, you're the enemy. I need to (00:34:21) have coffee with you." So he came over (00:34:22) and we talked and he was like he had so (00:34:26) many stories, so many things, but (00:34:27) basically he told me that Brazil, the (00:34:30) one who did that study, was the head of (00:34:32) the Pampers Institute and that they did (00:34:35) heavily influence the medical texts. (00:34:37) They worked together. They continue to (00:34:40) work together today. Your pediatrician (00:34:42) will tell you, you need to circumcise (00:34:44) your boy. You need to get all of these (00:34:47) vaccines way earlier than Well, we won't (00:34:51) get into that. Well, we should (00:34:52) supplement with formula so that the (00:34:54) baby's jaundice doesn't get worse. And (00:34:56) you need to wait till your child says (00:34:58) they're ready to potty train. Where did (00:35:01) all these messages come from? You follow (00:35:03) the money. They came from those big (00:35:06) companies. I mean, it is exactly the (00:35:08) same. You're saying that, you know, if (00:35:09) if Pampers or other big diaper brands (00:35:12) literally chose the people to run (00:35:14) studies a certain way to sway the (00:35:16) market, that's exactly what food (00:35:19) companies do. That is exactly what (00:35:20) pharmaceutical companies do. Um, so this (00:35:23) corruption really goes everywhere, which (00:35:25) is insane. (00:35:26) >> Is diaper culture damaging a child's (00:35:29) self-esteem? (00:35:30) >> Absolutely. (00:35:32) Now, I don't have empirical studies (00:35:34) about this, but there is no way that (00:35:39) being told to ignore your instincts and (00:35:42) to defecate in your own pants for 3 (00:35:45) years is not damaging to a child. (00:35:47) >> I mean, I do it all the time. Nobody (00:35:49) seems to have a problem. (00:35:51) >> Now, for grandma and grandpa, maybe (00:35:53) that's a normal thing, but that's (00:35:54) because they're incontinent at a certain (00:35:56) point. Babies aren't incontinent. So, we (00:35:59) are literally telling them to ignore (00:36:01) their instincts. We're shushing them (00:36:04) >> into doing it the way that it's not the (00:36:06) parents fault. The way that we've been (00:36:08) told to do it by people we trust. And (00:36:11) it's also just infiltrated our whole (00:36:13) society. I mean, it sounds like a huge (00:36:14) conspiracy theory, but honestly, you (00:36:16) just look through the steps of it. (00:36:17) That's exactly what happened. They just (00:36:19) wanted to sell diapers. Now this friend (00:36:20) in Asheville who was he's still a (00:36:22) shareholder in Pampers so he can't (00:36:24) reveal his name but he said after (00:36:27) talking to me and after talking about I (00:36:29) told him that there's an alternative (00:36:30) that you can potty train earlier that (00:36:32) it's what all babies of all human (00:36:34) history have done and none of them were (00:36:36) psychologically damaged like hello that (00:36:38) doesn't even make sense (00:36:40) >> that he said that the diaper companies (00:36:43) have gone too far and he couldn't talk (00:36:44) to me for several days he's like I just (00:36:46) need to go think about this and then we (00:36:48) got back together he was like, "Wow, my (00:36:51) mind is blown." And he's like, "I'm not (00:36:53) going to say anything cuz I'm a (00:36:54) shareholder, but my mind is blown." (00:36:55) >> How do you respond to people that say (00:36:57) elimination communication is extreme and (00:37:00) unnecessary and unrealistic. (00:37:02) >> It's the new old thing. It's what people (00:37:04) did. It's it's ancient wisdom. It's how (00:37:08) our babies are wired. It's not a fad or (00:37:10) a trend. It's literally what they did (00:37:12) before diapers. If you don't want to do (00:37:14) it, that's cool. But maybe you want to (00:37:16) early potty train. Did you know you (00:37:18) could do it between 16 and 18 months and (00:37:20) it's easier? Like try that. But usually (00:37:22) the people who say that aren't going to (00:37:23) early potty train either. They're going (00:37:25) to let their child potty train (00:37:26) themselves and they're going to have (00:37:27) their kid having problems with (00:37:29) bedwedding at seven and 8 years old. (00:37:31) Like it's all related. (00:37:32) >> Oh, it is. Oh, yeah. What's your theory (00:37:34) on bedwedding? They're born with (00:37:35) sphincter control. We're teaching them (00:37:37) to ignore those signals from their (00:37:38) bodies, to not trust their own body (00:37:40) cues, and those muscles, they stop (00:37:43) getting used. So, they're going to (00:37:45) they're going to start to become (00:37:46) flaccid. And I think that we're (00:37:48) physiologically damaging our kids by (00:37:52) making them go in the diaper for so (00:37:53) long. And again, y'all are innocent if (00:37:56) you didn't know anything. But now that (00:37:57) you know, the earlier you potty train, (00:38:01) the less of a correlation there is with (00:38:02) bedwedding. So, when somebody when you (00:38:04) have a mom tell you, "Well, my (00:38:06) pediatrician says that my child isn't (00:38:07) ready yet." What do you say? If the mom (00:38:10) does everything the pediatrician says, (00:38:12) there's no help in her. Okay. I love (00:38:13) you. you know, like we can't we can't (00:38:16) help those people. (00:38:17) >> Yeah. (00:38:17) >> Um maybe with the next child. (00:38:19) >> Hey, look me up because this is going to (00:38:21) suck for you if you wait longer and (00:38:22) longer. You're gonna have a terrible (00:38:24) time and you're going to be like, (00:38:24) "Andrea, I have a new baby. Help me." I (00:38:27) would say, "What does your gut tell (00:38:30) you?" And I would tell them some stories (00:38:33) about indigenous people, about our (00:38:36) history. I would give them those stats. (00:38:37) Like in the 50s, if 92% were done by 18 (00:38:40) months, do you think that our kids are (00:38:42) any biologically different or (00:38:44) physiologically different than kids what (00:38:46) is that 70 years ago? (00:38:48) >> They're not. We haven't evolved into a (00:38:50) different (00:38:51) >> set of everything like they're the same. (00:38:53) So (00:38:53) >> I I think the tie here what what I think (00:38:56) is interesting, which you know, I didn't (00:38:57) know any of this about potty training (00:38:58) and I don't have children and so I've (00:38:59) never potty trained a child. So this is (00:39:01) I'm hearing all this for the first time. (00:39:02) But what I do know is I've talked (00:39:04) extensively on this show with different (00:39:06) experts about how I mean even without (00:39:08) having kids just looking at the world (00:39:10) around me I do feel like we are (00:39:13) undercutting children a lot saying that (00:39:16) they are not capable of things that they (00:39:19) are capable of and I feel like there is (00:39:21) a distinction here there is a connection (00:39:24) you know I see that in older kids but (00:39:26) also like are we doing this is this (00:39:28) actually starting as young as potty (00:39:30) training age as young as infancy of of (00:39:32) feeling like, oh, our kids, you know, (00:39:35) they're incapable of being able to tell (00:39:37) us when they need to use the bathroom (00:39:39) and we're undercutting them, you know, (00:39:41) as young as just days, weeks, months (00:39:43) old. 100%. Do you remember a little bit (00:39:45) ago in this interview you said, um, you (00:39:48) say wait and the baby waits. (00:39:50) >> Mhm. (00:39:51) >> Yes. That baby is capable of (00:39:53) communication, (00:39:55) comes out communicating, understands (00:39:56) language far before they say their first (00:39:59) word. So babies are so much more capable (00:40:02) than we and we and we really dumb it (00:40:04) down. We we we make them convenient. We (00:40:06) make them fit into our lives. And there (00:40:08) is a certain amount like there's a part (00:40:10) of me that really believes in the (00:40:11) convenience of how do we raise babies in (00:40:14) a convenient way that works with our (00:40:15) lives because I'm a single mom of six (00:40:18) kids. Let me tell you how much I need (00:40:20) convenience. You know, (00:40:22) >> I'm the one who should have everybody in (00:40:24) diapers and who should be doing um all (00:40:26) the things that are easier like not (00:40:28) breastfeeding, all of that. The way I (00:40:30) see it though is as an upfront (00:40:31) investment. Like I'm going to breastfeed (00:40:33) them. I'm going to give them those (00:40:34) healthy. I'm going to try to birth (00:40:36) naturally. Like I birthe all mine (00:40:37) naturally. I did three free births with (00:40:39) no doctor or midwife or anything. Like (00:40:41) >> wow. (00:40:41) >> I am gung-ho about how we start is how (00:40:44) we continue on. I want them to have a (00:40:45) peaceful beginning where they feel safe (00:40:48) and good and heard. Right. (00:40:50) >> What was your freebirth experience like? (00:40:52) >> Oh my gosh. I can't even. That wouldn't (00:40:53) fit in three hours of talking. It was (00:40:56) amazing. They were 75 minutes and like I (00:40:59) had no no I was I was at Starbucks the (00:41:02) next day getting a latte. I was like (00:41:05) >> so resilient. (00:41:06) >> That is crazy. And it was amazing. It (00:41:08) was so wonderful. But I guess what I'm (00:41:10) saying is like I don't believe what (00:41:11) people say about babies not getting it. (00:41:14) I think early on in my pregnancies I (00:41:16) read continuum concept which is about (00:41:18) stone age Indians in the 60s and this (00:41:20) woman gene leadoff she went down there (00:41:22) and like spent time living with the (00:41:24) stone age Indians and it became like (00:41:26) this kind of parenting manual even (00:41:28) though we don't have intact community so (00:41:30) like parts of it don't really work but (00:41:32) like the parts I got from her book were (00:41:34) really trusting that that child is into (00:41:38) their self-preservation more than you (00:41:40) are. (00:41:40) >> Yeah. like they are smart, they're (00:41:42) survivors, and they are forgiving and (00:41:45) loving and resilient and they are (00:41:47) communicating and they get it and (00:41:49) they're not stupid. They're not (00:41:50) incontinent. (00:41:52) They're not dumb. Babies are brilliant (00:41:55) and they are learning so fast and like (00:41:58) they go through all of these (00:42:01) developmental milestones in the same (00:42:03) pattern whether they're developmentally (00:42:05) delayed or not. And they they go through (00:42:07) and achieve each thing. It's like it's (00:42:10) so beautiful to watch six of my own (00:42:12) babies go through all these phases. And (00:42:15) my whole goal is kind of monastery in (00:42:17) nature is like to support to make the (00:42:19) environment supportive of whatever (00:42:22) milestone they're in while trying not to (00:42:24) hover or helicopter. Yeah. (00:42:26) >> Thank god having multiple children you (00:42:27) can't. So it's like they're kind of on (00:42:29) their own like hey I hope you're okay (00:42:31) over there. like I have to do this and I (00:42:33) really want to like set up the (00:42:34) environment and then listen and I do my (00:42:36) best but I am very very allergic to the (00:42:40) perfectionism that people expect out of (00:42:42) moms. I am so imperfect but they're (00:42:45) forgiving. So like at least I'm trying. (00:42:48) Like I figure if I'm trying then my (00:42:50) child is going to be way more securely (00:42:52) attached than I was, you know? And that (00:42:55) like you just try to be healthier than (00:42:57) your parents were, you know? And you try (00:42:59) to do it. Not the healthiest, but (00:43:01) healthier. (00:43:01) >> Exactly. (00:43:05) >> After a micro needling session, my (00:43:07) friend looked like a tomato. Bright red, (00:43:09) sensitive, and totally inflamed. 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Use code alex for 40% (00:45:02) off. That's cozyearth.com. Code Alex for (00:45:05) 40% off. (00:45:09) What is your advice to somebody who (00:45:11) feels nervous like it's just too late (00:45:12) for me to start? Yeah. I mean, I've seen (00:45:14) hundreds of thousands of people start at (00:45:16) all the different ages between zero and (00:45:18) 18 months. Um, you just need to learn. (00:45:21) You need to learn. And that's where I (00:45:22) I'll just toot my own horn. Come to me (00:45:24) and I'll teach you how to do it. (00:45:25) Whatever age you're at, because it's (00:45:26) going to be a little bit different at (00:45:27) each age. But really, just one client (00:45:30) told me one time, take the diaper off. (00:45:33) There you started. It's literally the (00:45:36) first step. Just take the diaper off. (00:45:37) Don't be so afraid. It's just a baby. (00:45:40) It's just pee. You're going to get peed (00:45:41) on anyway if you potty train. Like (00:45:43) there's going to be messes. You might (00:45:44) not get peed on, but like with a baby, (00:45:47) there's going to be mess. But just be (00:45:49) curious, explore, see what's going on. (00:45:52) You can do observation over a waterproof (00:45:54) pad if your baby's not crawling and you (00:45:55) can see just like what's going on with (00:45:58) this creature, you know, and you can (00:46:00) notice these shifts and stuff. It's like (00:46:02) a little study where you're like (00:46:04) learning each other, you know, and you (00:46:06) can see if they signal or whatever. So, (00:46:08) just observe. If if you feel like it's (00:46:10) too late, just observe and see. And the (00:46:12) next time they wake up, offer the potty. (00:46:14) Like they don't have to go in it. It's (00:46:16) not potty training. If I could leave (00:46:18) you'all with anything. The EC is not (00:46:19) potty training. It is this like this (00:46:22) team effort towards just helping to (00:46:25) fulfill their needs until they can do it (00:46:26) themselves. So there's no expectation (00:46:30) that you're going to do this one thing (00:46:32) and it's just going to work. It is like (00:46:34) a feedback loop. So you're going to try (00:46:36) something and it's going to blow up and (00:46:37) you're going to be like, "Whoa, never (00:46:38) mind. won't be trying that again. And (00:46:40) just be open to what it looks like. But (00:46:43) that's why I created the four easy (00:46:46) catches. It's like these four things. (00:46:48) You're almost guaranteed to catch (00:46:50) something in the potty and then you can (00:46:51) get started. What is the number one (00:46:53) mistake that parents make when they try (00:46:56) early potty learning? Expecting their (00:46:58) baby to go on the clock every 30 minutes (00:47:01) or something. Expecting them to go (00:47:04) exactly when offered. I think going off (00:47:06) clock timing is a huge mistake. (00:47:09) I don't go off clock timing. Do you like (00:47:12) there's no I mean daily? Sure. For (00:47:14) number two, we've got a daily thing, but (00:47:16) that for babies doesn't happen till (00:47:17) they're 6 months old. (00:47:18) >> How do you handle push back from (00:47:20) teachers or pediatricians or family (00:47:22) members? What do you tell parents to say (00:47:24) when their other family and friends (00:47:26) think they're nuts? (00:47:26) >> I say don't say anything. I say keep it (00:47:29) to yourself. It's like your own little (00:47:31) special thing that you get with your (00:47:32) kid. You don't need their approval. Um I (00:47:35) would also say the proof is in the (00:47:36) pudding. So, one woman filmed her child (00:47:39) successfully taking herself to the (00:47:41) bathroom at home, showed it to the (00:47:42) daycare worker. Look, she's doing it at (00:47:46) home. She's 18 months old. And the (00:47:48) daycare worker was mind blown and let (00:47:50) her come without diapers. With family (00:47:52) members, like if you have a partner (00:47:53) who's not supportive, (00:47:56) do it anyway. And that child's going to (00:47:58) ask your partner or your ex-husband or (00:48:00) whoever it is to do it with them, too, (00:48:03) because this baby really wants this. So, (00:48:05) it's not like we're just contriving (00:48:06) something to make a baby do, like a (00:48:08) trick or a game. This is actually like (00:48:11) something that they're born really (00:48:13) wanting. And then when you finally get (00:48:14) it, they're like, "Ah, mommy gets it. (00:48:16) Daddy gets it. Great." And then they (00:48:17) start expecting it from everybody. But (00:48:20) but in the end, like ignore what (00:48:23) everybody says cuz they're going to go (00:48:24) off of this really deeply ingrained (00:48:26) diaper culture message that you have to (00:48:28) wait for readiness. It's not true. It's (00:48:31) just meant to sell more diapers and (00:48:32) pull-ups or diapers. is meant to have (00:48:34) you as a customer for 6 years. Tune that (00:48:36) out. If anything sounds like that, tune (00:48:38) it out and just go, "All right, I'm (00:48:40) going to do this quietly with my own (00:48:42) baby." And then maybe somebody might see (00:48:45) me doing it and be like, "Wo, it really (00:48:48) works." Am I nuts to point out that it (00:48:53) seems like on social media, you know, (00:48:54) obviously pro breastfeeding, that's (00:48:57) huge. It's widely accepted, I think, now (00:48:59) for the most part. And then you have (00:49:00) baby wearing (00:49:02) >> like baby wearing like ever like (00:49:03) everybody's doing that everybody's (00:49:04) talking about that elimination (00:49:06) communication it seems like this is the (00:49:07) last thing to me those things all align (00:49:11) it's all about like what a baby (00:49:13) naturally is made to do (00:49:15) >> but elimination communication is still (00:49:17) to me kind of like the redheaded (00:49:19) stepchild no offense to redheads so like (00:49:22) what's going on there why why does it (00:49:24) seem like this is the last thing that (00:49:26) people want to kind of (00:49:28) support I would say money because (00:49:32) they have invested so much into (00:49:34) marketing something that parents never (00:49:36) that moms never wanted. So they have a (00:49:39) lot invested into it. The other thing is (00:49:42) it's pretty clear how to breastfeed and (00:49:44) you've got lactation consultants at (00:49:45) every hospital that can help you learn (00:49:47) the latch and how to do it, how to pump, (00:49:48) all of that. I think that formula versus (00:49:51) breastfeeding is like a no-brainer (00:49:53) decision. If you can breastfeed, you're (00:49:55) going to do it because it's proven to (00:49:57) have more, you know, good effects on (00:49:58) your kid. Um, baby wearing, easy to see (00:50:01) how to do it, right? Oh, that's how you (00:50:02) just strap them on and then you can (00:50:04) easy. Like, it's a low bar entry. Like, (00:50:06) there's very low friction. You can just (00:50:07) kind of get into both of them pretty (00:50:09) easily. With EC, it's like for some (00:50:13) people, they think it's so complicated (00:50:14) that they don't try it, you know? And I (00:50:19) think if you try it just once, just when (00:50:22) your newborn wakes up, your whole belief (00:50:25) system will shift on it. It's literally (00:50:27) by doing it, you'll be like, "Wo, that (00:50:30) really works." And it does give you like (00:50:32) a little dopamine spike. You're like, (00:50:33) "Wow, you did it." (00:50:34) >> You know what I'm realizing talking to (00:50:36) you is that everybody thinks I would (00:50:38) never fall victim to a cult. I could (00:50:40) never be indoctrinated. I would never (00:50:42) fall for any of that. And we have all (00:50:47) collectively fallen for a complete (00:50:50) indoctrination scheme when it comes to (00:50:52) diapers. (00:50:52) >> Absolutely. (00:50:54) >> We're brainwashed, Alex. We're (00:50:55) brainwashed. We need to wake up. And (00:50:58) it's like the 99th monkey thing, you (00:50:59) know, like when what's the tipping point (00:51:02) here? How many people need to know about (00:51:04) this before we go wait? Okay, we need to (00:51:07) change course on this. And I think the (00:51:09) first step in changing course on this (00:51:11) whole cultural thing is to start doing (00:51:14) conventional potty training earlier. (00:51:17) Let's just start there. Everybody (00:51:18) doesn't need to do EC. If you're (00:51:20) listening to this, you're like, "Whoa, (00:51:21) this sound this makes so much sense. I'm (00:51:23) going to do it." Then do it. (00:51:24) >> This idea that pediatricians say you (00:51:26) have to wait till your child tells you (00:51:28) they're ready to potty train is (00:51:29) pseudocience garbage. (00:51:31) >> It's pseudocience garbage. Read the (00:51:33) thing. It's terrible. Are we culturally (00:51:35) addicted to diapers? Absolutely. We know (00:51:39) no other way. We've lost that wisdom. It (00:51:42) hasn't been passed on. It's gone. So, (00:51:44) I'm bringing it back, you know, like (00:51:45) this is why I'm here. This is what I was (00:51:48) strangely called to do. You're like the (00:51:50) mother of this movement. I am. You're (00:51:52) like the go-to person. What kind of (00:51:54) tools do you help people? Like parents (00:51:56) are like, "I'm interested, but I'm (00:51:58) overwhelmed and I'm scared." (00:51:59) >> Yeah. I say just do the four easy (00:52:01) catches. Just try the wake up. Try the (00:52:02) first fest after feeding. Try when you (00:52:04) see the poop face. Why would you wait (00:52:06) for the diaper to fill up with poop and (00:52:08) then clean it off your baby's crevices? (00:52:10) >> Do you do anything instead just like (00:52:12) stop say wait and then catch it in the (00:52:15) potty? Like just start there. And yeah, (00:52:17) of course I have courses. I have lots of (00:52:18) courses, little ones, but my main things (00:52:20) are my books because they break (00:52:22) everything down. And I start with I (00:52:24) don't start with the history and all (00:52:25) that stuff. I'm like this is how you do (00:52:26) it. That's how the beginning of the book (00:52:27) is cuz we're moms. Right. (00:52:28) >> Right. (00:52:29) >> And there's an audio version. So like (00:52:31) who reads books anymore? If you're (00:52:32) having a newborn, you can't hold a book. (00:52:34) I think that and I I also include like a (00:52:37) video library. I've always included that (00:52:38) because there's how do you hold the baby (00:52:40) in this position? What does it look (00:52:42) like? What does the signal look like? I (00:52:43) have examples of all of that that come (00:52:44) with my book because it's not black and (00:52:47) white and two-dimensional. EC is like a (00:52:50) lively thing that they have always done (00:52:52) but that's now lost. So like how do I (00:52:54) bring it back? I made it really in like (00:52:57) here's all the different ways to wrap (00:53:00) your mind around it. And my goal is to (00:53:02) get you just to try to catch one. See (00:53:04) how you feel and then just know that (00:53:07) there are options. Like if you've so (00:53:10) many people are like, "Wow, where were (00:53:11) you 13 years ago? If I would have known (00:53:13) about this, I would have done it." I (00:53:14) just think like if it's not for you, (00:53:16) tell somebody about it and then they can (00:53:17) try it. But I think the bigger cultural (00:53:20) shift is going to happen when we start (00:53:21) to give ourselves permission to potty (00:53:23) train earlier. So, if you do know EC and (00:53:26) you're just like, "Okay, I can't I can't (00:53:28) imagine." Even though it literally makes (00:53:30) mothering easier, even though it (00:53:32) literally takes so much off your plate (00:53:35) and makes it so much easier to parent (00:53:37) your children. Like, I have six. I I am (00:53:40) doing a good job as a mom. Like, I feel (00:53:42) like I know them so well from doing (00:53:44) this. I feel like we've got this super (00:53:46) strong thing and like I feel like I've (00:53:49) succeeded. Like, I've got amazing kids (00:53:51) who are great in public. They're wild at (00:53:53) home. But like we could start as a (00:53:55) culture just by lowering the potty (00:53:57) training age by one year. Now the diaper (00:54:00) company will lose I think I estimate (00:54:01) like 11 billion a year if we lower it by (00:54:04) one year. They lose a lot. 2 billion 11. (00:54:06) A lot of money. They're probably going (00:54:07) to start upping it. They're probably (00:54:08) going to be like, "Don't even worry (00:54:09) about potty training till kindergarten." (00:54:11) >> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, diaper (00:54:14) companies, if you're listening, you can (00:54:15) partner with me because this is going to (00:54:17) happen whether you like it or not. So, (00:54:18) though I will help people potty train (00:54:20) earlier and we will use your diapers but (00:54:22) for less time, you know, and then you'll (00:54:24) be the good guy in this whole thing. But (00:54:26) seriously, like if we bring it back from (00:54:28) 36 months average to 24 months average, (00:54:32) it's going to be easier for parents, (00:54:33) easier for daycarees, and our kids are (00:54:36) going to be more well functioning (00:54:39) grown-ups. Like, we're literally I think (00:54:41) we're really psychologically damaging (00:54:43) our kids by waiting till 3 years old. (00:54:46) >> Why do you say that? We are forced. (00:54:49) We're giving them no other option but to (00:54:51) soil themselves and ignore their own (00:54:53) bodily sensations and to hush and no, (00:54:57) you don't need that. I know what you (00:54:59) need. You need to go in this diaper. And (00:55:01) not that we're doing it on purpose. It's (00:55:03) because what we're taught, but we're (00:55:05) literally like telling them to ignore (00:55:08) their own body. And that is that's not (00:55:12) the thing these days. We want our kids (00:55:13) to honor themselves, protect themselves, (00:55:17) and be as healthy as possible, you know, (00:55:20) their brains, their bodies, everything. (00:55:22) So, putting them in diapers and just (00:55:25) basically forcing them to go on (00:55:26) themselves, I think that's damaging. (00:55:29) >> How do you work with a kid to go to the (00:55:30) bathroom when they need to go to the (00:55:31) bathroom and not like ignore it, go in (00:55:33) their pants because they want to keep (00:55:34) playing or they don't want to leave the (00:55:36) situation they're in? I see that a lot. (00:55:38) >> Absolutely. So, I actually wrote a board (00:55:40) book about that, had it illustrated. is (00:55:42) called Tiny Potty Board Book and it (00:55:44) shows the kid feeling the sensation and (00:55:46) then bringing the teddy bear with them (00:55:49) to go to the bathroom, going to the (00:55:51) bathroom and then going back to play (00:55:52) because if I'm working at my computer (00:55:54) and I need to pee, I'm going to pause (00:55:56) and I'm going to go pee, (00:55:57) >> right? (00:55:58) >> So, I think that it makes sense to model (00:56:00) that for children. You can go and maybe (00:56:02) the tractor has to go potty, too. And (00:56:03) then they do over the toilet. Oh, my (00:56:06) kids do that. It's so cute. And then (00:56:07) it's their turn to go and then they go (00:56:09) back to play. Okay. So, we want to teach (00:56:10) healthy habits from the beginning. (00:56:12) >> Where can people follow you on social (00:56:14) media? (00:56:14) >> Go diaper free everywhere. (00:56:16) >> Go diaper free. And if you could offer (00:56:18) one remedy to heal a sick culture, it (00:56:20) could be physically, emotionally, or (00:56:22) spiritually. What would it be? I would (00:56:24) say we start with birth natural, (00:56:26) undisturbed as possible birth. I feel (00:56:28) like the way we come in matters and then (00:56:30) obviously potty your babies at least (00:56:32) once a day. Andrea, thank you for coming (00:56:35) on Culture Apothecary. Thanks for having (00:56:37) me. (00:56:41) What do you think? Your newborn baby (00:56:43) just going to say poo poo to diapers? (00:56:46) I couldn't resist doing that. Okay, (00:56:48) please leave a fivestar review. If you (00:56:50) enjoyed this episode, you learned (00:56:52) something new. Even if you totally (00:56:54) disagree, I want to know your thoughts (00:56:55) in the Keepservatives Facebook group. We (00:56:57) post new episodes with different expert (00:56:58) guests giving their own unique remedy to (00:57:00) heal a sick culture twice a week, (00:57:02) Mondays and Thursdays, 600 p.m. Pacific, (00:57:04) 9:00 p.m. Eastern. I'm Alex Clark and (00:57:06) this is Culture Apothecary. (00:57:08) [Music]