Jonathan Haidt on the Mental-Health Crisis and Smartphones | WSJ News (YouTube Video Transcript)

(00:00:00) Your YouTube transcript will appear here (00:00:01) um but let's let's just start let's (00:00:03) assume that like maybe 10% of the people (00:00:04) in the room don't know your thesis (00:00:06) already what what is your what is your (00:00:08) thesis in as in your latest book um so (00:00:11) what we know for sure is that mental (00:00:14) health statistics were pretty stable (00:00:15) from the late 90s to about 2010 2011 uh (00:00:18) actually getting even a little better (00:00:20) you mean mental health among young (00:00:21) people I mean among teenage American (00:00:23) teenagers um uh and then all of a sudden (00:00:26) around 2012 2013 measures of depression (00:00:29) anxiety and self harm go skyrocketing (00:00:31) it's like a hockey stick especially for (00:00:32) girls so what caused that uh and we (00:00:35) didn't know for a long time there's a (00:00:36) lot of debate but once you see that that (00:00:38) happened at the same time in the same (00:00:40) way in Canada the UK Australia New (00:00:43) Zealand much of much of the Nordic (00:00:45) countries much of Northern Europe now (00:00:47) the number of hypotheses about what (00:00:49) could cause this basically maybe (00:00:51) somebody dropped some weird chemical On (00:00:53) th those countries in 2012 and that's (00:00:54) what happened or maybe it's because we (00:00:56) had the great rewiring of childhood (00:00:58) where everyone traded their flip phones (00:01:00) in in 2010 they had flip phones they (00:01:02) used those as tools to meet up with (00:01:03) other kids uh by 2015 they have a (00:01:06) smartphone with high-speed internet (00:01:08) social media Instagram in particular uh (00:01:10) front-facing camera and now a lot of (00:01:13) kids are spending 5 to 10 hours a day (00:01:15) doing this which blocks out everything (00:01:18) else so my argument is not just about (00:01:20) the phones my argument is that is that (00:01:22) we used to have a play based childhood (00:01:24) for the last you know 50 million years (00:01:26) that's what mammals do they play Young (00:01:27) mammals must play a lot if you've ever (00:01:29) had a puppy you know that um but we took (00:01:32) our children in the '90s and said no (00:01:33) more of that no more outside play you (00:01:35) have to be supervised all the time so (00:01:36) the loss of the play-based childhood set (00:01:38) them up for a kind of a weakness and (00:01:40) fragility and then the arrival of the (00:01:42) phone based childhood between 2010 and (00:01:44) 2015 that's the story I put forth in the (00:01:46) book and I'm having wonderful debates (00:01:48) with a few research psychologists who (00:01:50) say that I don't have the evidence and (00:01:51) they say my I'm uh my focusing on this (00:01:54) is hiding the real causes of the (00:01:56) epidemic but they won't say what those (00:01:58) are because they don't know right well (00:02:00) that was going to be my next question (00:02:01) right I mean I think absent even all the (00:02:04) scientific evidence that you (00:02:06) cite it's Universal in my experience (00:02:09) that parents are very concerned about um (00:02:12) you know overuse of devices by their (00:02:14) kids um but yeah I mean there are folks (00:02:17) who say oh wait isn't this a modern day (00:02:20) moral Panic like comic books in the (00:02:23) 1950s like uh violent video games in the (00:02:27) 1990s um and your answer has been no (00:02:30) this time it really is different and so (00:02:32) how is it different than those previous (00:02:34) yeah so the idea that this is just a (00:02:36) groundless moral Panic the kids are all (00:02:38) right we've been through this before you (00:02:41) know in the 18th century was novels (00:02:43) we're going to excite young women's (00:02:44) sexual passions we must ban novels so (00:02:47) perfectly reasonable hypothesis I'm glad (00:02:49) that people were skeptical uh back in (00:02:51) 2019 when I started this um but this is (00:02:54) so different in so many ways one is that (00:02:58) previous moral panics were spread by the (00:03:00) media stories about a kid who saw (00:03:03) something or read a comic book and then (00:03:04) axe murdered his mother it probably (00:03:06) never happened but the media runs with (00:03:08) it this time around everyone has seen it (00:03:12) in their own children or their friends (00:03:14) children or their nieces and nephews (00:03:16) everyone knows someone who's been harmed (00:03:17) by social media um everyone knows a girl (00:03:20) who is cutting herself um out of anxiety (00:03:23) so this is very different from any (00:03:25) previous moral panic in that way another (00:03:27) way is that in previous moral in this in (00:03:29) this time around you talk to members of (00:03:32) gen Z the older ones you talk to members (00:03:34) of gen Z who are 18 or especially those (00:03:36) in their 20s and you say so do you think (00:03:38) the phone-based childhood is good do you (00:03:40) think it's beneficial I can't find (00:03:42) anyone who says yes to that I can't find (00:03:44) anyone there's Universal agreement it (00:03:46) seems among gen Z that this has really (00:03:48) messed them up and then you say I say to (00:03:51) my students well why don't you get off (00:03:53) and they say we can't because everyone (00:03:55) else is on so it's a trap whereas comic (00:03:58) books and and and things they was they (00:04:00) weren't a trap in that way and the young (00:04:02) people weren't saying please comic book (00:04:04) makers stop making comic books that are (00:04:06) so addictive we can't put them down like (00:04:09) that didn't happen but it's happening (00:04:10) now there are a lot of Youth Le (00:04:11) organizations that are advocating for (00:04:13) major changes because this is messing up (00:04:15) the generation right so to sum up I mean (00:04:18) uh this sounds like the precautionary (00:04:20) principle right like social science is (00:04:22) hard it's hard to definitively (00:04:24) demonstrate there's no Earth to where (00:04:26) these phones don't exist and we can play (00:04:28) it out that way but part of what you're (00:04:30) saying is based on anecdotal evidence (00:04:33) based on the balance of the scientific (00:04:35) evidence as you interpret it um you know (00:04:37) why would we take this risk or why are (00:04:39) we taking this risk right so I'm glad (00:04:41) you mentioned the precautionary (00:04:42) principle so there are there are two (00:04:44) different ways of thinking about R about (00:04:46) risk and the risk of making a mistake or (00:04:48) a false diagnosis so the the (00:04:50) psychologists that are debating with me (00:04:52) and it's it's it's a good normal (00:04:53) academic debate they're in the mindset (00:04:56) of reviewing for a scientific journal (00:04:58) and when we review for a an article for (00:05:01) Journal our attitude is it's got to be (00:05:03) you know P less than 05 multiple (00:05:05) experiments we have to be really certain (00:05:07) that this is right because we don't want (00:05:08) to publish something that's wrong so it (00:05:10) takes a lot of proof before we'll say (00:05:13) okay this is certain enough that we're (00:05:14) going to let it in it's like in a jury (00:05:16) trial for a criminal case it has to be (00:05:18) Beyond a reasonable doubt that's fine (00:05:20) for a jury trial that's fine for a (00:05:22) scientific (00:05:23) journal if our kids are cutting (00:05:25) themselves and killing themselves at (00:05:27) much higher levels than they did before (00:05:29) are we going to say let's not do (00:05:30) anything until we're certain let's be (00:05:32) totally certain before we do anything oh (00:05:34) and by the way the things that we're (00:05:35) supposed to that we that we should do (00:05:37) they cost nothing they there's (00:05:39) bipartisan agreement that we should do (00:05:41) them there's no risk so my argument is (00:05:44) okay I think the evidence and actually (00:05:46) there's a lot of experimental evidence (00:05:47) as well of causation I think the (00:05:49) evidence is pretty clear we can debate (00:05:51) whether it's certain or not certain but (00:05:52) when you look at the risk benefit ratio (00:05:55) why the hell aren't we (00:05:57) acting right and I mean I think if this (00:05:59) is kind of like the the strong and the (00:06:01) weak case for what you're arguing for (00:06:03) which is ending the so-called (00:06:05) phone-based childhood right even if um (00:06:08) someone is not convinced by um Trends in (00:06:12) mental health uh among teens or they (00:06:14) think that that's you know varies it (00:06:15) does vary by country um there's just the (00:06:19) the the simple fact that it obviously is (00:06:20) trading off with uh you know the play (00:06:23) based childhood and you know even if (00:06:26) these were just little TVs they were (00:06:27) carrying around we would want to limit (00:06:29) their time on that because it's going to (00:06:30) trade off with everything else in their (00:06:32) life however it is affecting their (00:06:34) mental health that's right so um so let (00:06:38) me just lay out so there's a lot of (00:06:40) ideas in the book for what parents can (00:06:42) do I have a whole chapter on what (00:06:43) parents can do with dozens of ideas what (00:06:45) teachers can uh schools can do what (00:06:47) governments can do what tech companies (00:06:48) can do um but the key to the whole thing (00:06:51) is understanding the collective action (00:06:53) problem that the reason that we're (00:06:54) pressured to give our kid a phone is (00:06:56) that she says mom everyone else has one (00:06:58) I'm being left out I'm being made fun of (00:07:00) so we'll say okay here's a phone um it's (00:07:03) the collective pressure that got is so (00:07:05) deep into this even though most of us (00:07:06) can see that this is really bad for our (00:07:08) kids but it's Collective action that (00:07:10) will get us out and so what I Tred to do (00:07:12) at the end of the book is propose four (00:07:14) simple Norms I try to make it really (00:07:15) clear and simple four simple Norms if we (00:07:18) do these things we roll back the phone (00:07:19) based childhood one no smartphone before (00:07:23) 14 you can give them a flip phone you (00:07:25) send them out give them a phone so you (00:07:27) can flip phone so you can text them they (00:07:28) can text you call if they need to but (00:07:31) you do not give a child the internet in (00:07:34) their pocket where strangers can reach (00:07:36) them and they can watch beheading videos (00:07:38) you don't give that to a child to have (00:07:40) with them all the time that's the same (00:07:42) as for an iPad you don't have one of (00:07:43) those devices until you're 14 minimum (00:07:45) that should be the minimum National Norm (00:07:48) um that's one number two no social media (00:07:51) until 16 um the internet is not social (00:07:54) media the internet is wonderful the (00:07:55) internet is amazing does some bad stuff (00:07:58) but man the benefits of the internet are (00:08:00) vast nobody wants to get rid of the (00:08:01) internet social media is not the (00:08:03) internet you take a vote on social media (00:08:05) let's just do it right now how many of (00:08:07) you raise your hand here in this room if (00:08:09) you wish to God that the internet was (00:08:11) never invented you wish we could have (00:08:13) raise your hand hi okay nobody okay now (00:08:16) what about Tik Tok and Instagram do you (00:08:18) raise your hand if you wish it was never (00:08:20) invented okay and that's and that's a (00:08:22) lot of the room um so the kids say this (00:08:25) themselves 18-year-olds say this they (00:08:27) wish that this didn't exist but they're (00:08:29) stuck they're wrapped on it so how about (00:08:31) we just delay it till 16 just don't let (00:08:33) CH don't let children go through puberty (00:08:36) on social media that's the really (00:08:37) vulnerable time third Norm phone- free (00:08:40) schools imagine for those of you we went (00:08:43) to school before the internet imagine (00:08:45) that the school had a new rule you can (00:08:48) bring in your television from home you (00:08:50) can bring in your walkie-talkies you can (00:08:52) bring in your record player put it all (00:08:54) on your desk we'll give you an outlet (00:08:55) and you can do that during class while (00:08:57) the teacher's talking this is complete (00:08:58) Insanity but that's what we we've done (00:09:00) that's what we've done any school that (00:09:02) lets kids have the phone in their pocket (00:09:04) you know my kids went to New York City (00:09:05) public schools and the rule is you can't (00:09:07) take out your phone during class which (00:09:09) means that you have to hide it in behind (00:09:10) a book or under your desk if you want to (00:09:12) text and watch video and watch porn (00:09:14) which the kids do so what we've done is (00:09:17) completely insane and guess what (00:09:20) academic achievement has been going down (00:09:22) not since covid but since 2012 as soon (00:09:25) as the kids all had the internet in (00:09:27) their pocket they can't resist they have (00:09:29) to be using it since everyone else is (00:09:30) using it um and so academic achievement (00:09:33) our kids are learning less the teachers (00:09:35) are quitting there's just a great (00:09:36) article in the journal about a teacher (00:09:37) who just couldn't stand it anymore from (00:09:38) the phones so the third Norm is phone- (00:09:40) free schools um and the fourth Norm is (00:09:43) the hardest actually uh because we have (00:09:45) to overcome our own fears the fourth (00:09:46) Norm is far more Independence free play (00:09:50) and responsibility in the real world (00:09:52) just like everyone had until the 1990s (00:09:56) um kids must learn to be self-governing (00:09:59) and the way they learn that is by being (00:10:00) self-governing by being out with a group (00:10:02) of friends they get into trouble they (00:10:04) get out of trouble they get into (00:10:05) conflict they get out of the conflict (00:10:07) there can't be an adult guarding them (00:10:09) all the time until they go to college so (00:10:12) those four Norms that we roll back the (00:10:14) phone based childhood they're not that (00:10:15) hard so let's (00:10:21) uh let's uh let's talk about the future (00:10:24) now okay um the future of everything (00:10:26) yeah future of everything uh including (00:10:28) human beings and um so so gen Z the (00:10:32) oldest members of gen Z are 28 now they (00:10:35) have already had a phone based childhood (00:10:39) they're kind of the first generation to (00:10:41) have that for the totality of their (00:10:43) growing up almost what are the (00:10:45) implications of this generation who's (00:10:47) had that (00:10:48) experience uh you know growing older and (00:10:51) starting to kind of cross all these life (00:10:53) milestones and getting jobs and (00:10:55) everything else right so one hypothesis (00:10:57) that people had a number of years ago (00:10:58) back when I wrote the the American mind (00:11:00) was ah they'll grow out of it you know (00:11:02) this Behavior they're doing in college (00:11:04) oh they can't do that when they go to (00:11:05) Goldman Sachs they can't do that when (00:11:07) they go to Google well that wasn't true (00:11:09) the Norms of universities have been (00:11:10) brought into the corporate world now (00:11:12) that gen Z is 28 and the main (00:11:14) characteristic is much greater anxiety (00:11:16) and more fragility employers I talk to a (00:11:19) lot I work at a business school I talk (00:11:21) to a lot of people people in the (00:11:22) corporate world people are finding it (00:11:24) very hard to incorporate their gen z uh (00:11:27) students their gen Z employees um (00:11:29) they're they're lovely people they're (00:11:31) smart but they've had a lot going (00:11:33) against them uh and then they came out (00:11:35) during covid for whatever reason it's (00:11:37) just hard it's just much harder to (00:11:38) incorporate them um I think what we're (00:11:40) seeing is a lot less Innovation uh (00:11:43) there's a conversation between Sam (00:11:45) Altman and um Pat Collison where they (00:11:48) pointed out that for the first time (00:11:50) since the 60s or 70s there's not a (00:11:53) single dominant per there's not a major (00:11:55) figure in Silicon Valley under 30 that's (00:11:57) never been true before what I'm seeing (00:11:59) in my students and what we're seeing (00:12:01) around the country is that because we (00:12:03) all have limited attention but because (00:12:05) young people have given all of their (00:12:07) attention to their devices five hours a (00:12:10) day of of social media is the average (00:12:13) the average in this country it's mostly (00:12:15) videos mostly Tik Tok and uh YouTube (00:12:17) shorts things like that so five hours a (00:12:19) day just for that and then another five (00:12:21) to seven hours for other things they (00:12:23) have no attention to actually do (00:12:25) anything so so that might be why they're (00:12:28) not innovating as much now it's I don't (00:12:30) have data on I got to push back on the (00:12:32) idea that like every member of (00:12:33) Generation Z is a screen obsessed zombie (00:12:36) not every member I'm a social scientist (00:12:37) I don't mean every member I mean (00:12:39) averages right okay so on average um but (00:12:42) I mean in my experience they're also the (00:12:44) ones leading the charge to um detach (00:12:48) from social media to not post to be (00:12:51) digital minimalists I mean in one of (00:12:54) your most recent newsletters you said (00:12:55) there're all these youth organizations (00:12:57) so it does feel like there is sort of a (00:12:59) counter movement coming from members of (00:13:02) gen Z themselves oh yes well they (00:13:04) certainly are activists uh in the online (00:13:07) world and they're using the online world (00:13:08) to push back against the online World (00:13:10) which is fine that's good these are (00:13:12) powerful tools I'm happy they're doing (00:13:14) that um so yes uh gen Z this is almost (00:13:18) uniformally the case gen ZZ does not (00:13:21) support the phone-based childhood (00:13:22) they're opposed to it they see the (00:13:24) problems with it and now finally in the (00:13:26) last three or four years we're seeing a (00:13:27) bunch of older gen Z although some some (00:13:29) started in college forming organizations (00:13:31) to push back I'm really encouraged I'm (00:13:33) trying to help them uh we're all (00:13:35) connecting up this is a becoming a (00:13:37) global movement um but how successful (00:13:40) have they been so far um it's very hard (00:13:42) leading these voluntary movements (00:13:44) because it's still a trap uh I do think (00:13:47) that the best thing that we could do the (00:13:48) most important thing that would help us (00:13:49) here is age verification uh and which (00:13:52) the companies really really don't want (00:13:53) to do and um Chris and I were backstage (00:13:56) during the previous session we only (00:13:58) caught part of it but I'm so come here (00:14:00) to the Wall Street Journal and I learn (00:14:01) that the only ethical social media (00:14:03) company in the world is only fans that (00:14:04) was pretty interesting um because they (00:14:07) because they seem to actually take (00:14:09) seriously that children should not be on (00:14:10) their platforms whereas the view at meta (00:14:13) and Tik Tok is oh yeah you know we you (00:14:15) know 13's the minimum age but they'll do (00:14:17) everything they can to get young (00:14:18) children you know Meta Even had (00:14:20) something like how do we get three and (00:14:21) four year olds how do we get into play (00:14:22) dates so uh so we desperately need help (00:14:25) from government to force the companies (00:14:27) to ageg gate uh but beyond that I think (00:14:30) we can do most of it with Norms that we (00:14:32) do within communities within groups of (00:14:36) friend of families and with schools um (00:14:38) can't we just convince uh Tim Cook to (00:14:40) take over age gating I mean he did it (00:14:42) with ads so yes that would really help (00:14:45) um in the book I I I do propose um a (00:14:48) sort of a so ideally there'd be like (00:14:50) ageg gating like in order to go into a (00:14:53) casino or a bar or a strip club or a (00:14:55) brothel you have to show some (00:14:58) identification um and show that you're (00:15:00) at least 18 or 21 depending on the case (00:15:02) I think social media should be the same (00:15:03) as that but that does raise possible (00:15:06) privacy issues and if people have to (00:15:08) show a driver's license or face (00:15:10) recognition in order to watch PornHub I (00:15:12) understand a lot of people aren't going (00:15:13) to like that so um so a halfway measure (00:15:18) is to say well can't you at least help (00:15:21) the parents who don't want their kids on (00:15:23) PornHub can't you do anything for us and (00:15:26) the answer is yeah yeah you could make (00:15:28) phones that are marked in Hardware or (00:15:31) software as this is a child's phone or (00:15:33) this this is a kid with a particular (00:15:35) birthday and and so then when that child (00:15:37) try and it would be the same on their (00:15:39) computer and on their iPad everything um (00:15:41) so when that child tries to go to (00:15:42) Pornhub all PornHub has to do is just (00:15:44) you know send down a signal there's a (00:15:46) check is this a hardware device that we (00:15:48) can deal with so this causes zero (00:15:50) privacy concerns the rest of the world (00:15:53) can still go on PornHub and do whatever (00:15:55) they want but at least if I want to keep (00:15:57) my own children off of Tik Tok and (00:15:59) PornHub and and and Instagram and I do (00:16:03) deliberately put the three together um (00:16:05) then I should you know Apple could (00:16:06) really help us do that and what about (00:16:10) kind of I mean we're quickly moving (00:16:12) toward a a world this was my last panel (00:16:14) with the Mozilla folks where everything (00:16:16) you just described from social media to (00:16:18) the browser and the internet at large is (00:16:20) getting usurped by AI as as a dominant (00:16:24) mode of interacting with our devices I (00:16:26) mean we just saw that with the open ey (00:16:28) AI demo and then the cont about Scarlet (00:16:30) Janson what do you think is going to be (00:16:32) you know if that's been the impact of (00:16:33) social media what do you think is going (00:16:34) to be the impact of of this universal (00:16:36) access to AI yeah so um so AI so I'm a (00:16:40) social psychologist I'm extremely (00:16:43) alarmed about the state of American (00:16:44) democracy we've lost a lot of the (00:16:46) assumptions that the founding fathers (00:16:48) had um uh we're in big trouble in terms (00:16:52) of the structure and stability of our (00:16:53) institutions and our democracy I believe (00:16:56) that AI is going to bring in very (00:16:58) quickly an era of extraordinary (00:17:00) Prosperity economically and of (00:17:02) sociological chaos with a risk of (00:17:05) collapse because we're already in a hell (00:17:07) of a state and now anyone who wants to (00:17:10) flood the Zone with incredibly Vivid (00:17:12) movies of anyone saying anything they (00:17:14) can do that you mean like deep fakes (00:17:16) deep yeah deep fakes can do that uh from (00:17:19) the looking at Teen Mental Health the (00:17:21) problem you know as I say in the book (00:17:22) for girls social media is particularly (00:17:24) toxic and a lot of them get addicted to (00:17:26) social media more so than the boys for (00:17:28) the boys it's that they're withdrawing (00:17:29) from The Real World because the the real (00:17:31) world is hard school is harder for them (00:17:33) they don't get recess and play and Shop (00:17:35) anymore they have to sit in their chair (00:17:36) all all day long boys are withdrawing (00:17:38) from The Real World this is Richard (00:17:39) Reeves work I think he's actually here (00:17:40) today Richard Reeves is yeah yeah um uh (00:17:43) and and just as they were withdrawing (00:17:45) the virtual world got more and more (00:17:46) amazing so the video games get more and (00:17:48) more amazing the porn gets more and more (00:17:50) amazing well what's coming up is that (00:17:52) every Lonely Boy the boys are so lonely (00:17:55) um they don't spend much time with other (00:17:56) human beings so the boys are so lonely (00:17:58) the girls are too but it's really the (00:17:59) boys even more well now they're going to (00:18:01) have ai girlfriends um people are (00:18:03) already falling in love with a if you if (00:18:06) you're flirting with someone and she's (00:18:07) brilliant and she's witty and you can (00:18:09) program her personality so that she's (00:18:11) just what you want you're going to fall (00:18:13) madly in love and so this is what if we (00:18:15) don't we have to accept the principle (00:18:17) now that technologies that we allow (00:18:20) adults to use are often not appropriate (00:18:22) for children and so if we can't get ageg (00:18:24) gating now on social media it's game (00:18:26) over for the boys the boys are going to (00:18:28) be lost in in a amazing AI worlds of (00:18:31) video games pornography friends uh and (00:18:34) then how are they going to turn into a (00:18:36) man who is able to flirt with a real (00:18:39) woman for heterosexual uh uh couples (00:18:41) flirt with a real woman Court someone (00:18:43) fall in love be get married stay married (00:18:46) have children um so girls are becoming (00:18:49) much more depressed and anxious boys are (00:18:51) being blocked in their development (00:18:52) they're not going they're not turning (00:18:53) into men and it's going to be so much (00:18:55) worse when they have lots of AI friends (00:18:56) and servants how many servants do you (00:18:58) want your children to have if you have a (00:19:00) 12-year-old son do you want him to have (00:19:02) a maid do you want him to have a (00:19:03) chauffeur do you want a private tutor (00:19:04) would you like your child to have 15 (00:19:06) servants that would be so warping but (00:19:08) that's what's coming well the private (00:19:09) tutor sounds appealing if they'll help (00:19:11) them learn their mathematics um I know (00:19:13) we're gonna I know we're out of time but (00:19:15) I know that uh definitely there's going (00:19:16) to be some questions so do we have any (00:19:18) mic Runners and um and maybe we'll have (00:19:22) one or two questions please keep them (00:19:24) very short because somebody's going to (00:19:27) start staring daggers at me for going (00:19:29) over we have some questions over here (00:19:30) some raised (00:19:33) hands uh is there any excuse me you (00:19:36) mentioned Tik Tok and Instagram and (00:19:38) PornHub oh sorry as a y as uh three (00:19:42) social media sites are there any for (00:19:44) children or I guess maybe what are the (00:19:45) elements of those that you think are (00:19:48) really bad when you think about there (00:19:49) are certain social media sites made for (00:19:51) children I have a nine-year-old daughter (00:19:53) a six-year-old daughter and they do seem (00:19:55) to interact with their friends on those (00:19:56) in a healthy way but I don't know maybe (00:19:58) they're bad to and I got a being a bad (00:20:00) parent okay so two things first social (00:20:02) media is not the internet when the (00:20:04) internet came out people could find each (00:20:06) other they could find information lgbtq (00:20:08) kids could find information they could (00:20:10) find each other so the internet's (00:20:11) amazing social media is these are (00:20:14) companies that have taken over our (00:20:15) children's childhood invited them in (00:20:17) created a whole world with no immune (00:20:19) system as we saw before no safety by (00:20:21) Design safety is an afterthought um so I (00:20:24) think that social media is just entirely (00:20:25) inappropriate for children what is (00:20:27) appropriate for children stories stories (00:20:29) are great human beings tell stories we (00:20:32) live in stories we've always told (00:20:34) stories around the campfire so if kids (00:20:36) are going to watch a little bit of (00:20:38) Television a story that's at least 20 (00:20:40) minutes long that's great now they (00:20:42) shouldn't be watching six hours a day (00:20:44) but watching a movie watching a story is (00:20:47) okay Tik Tok is not stories Tik Tok is (00:20:50) lots of little garbage things that are (00:20:52) degrading and at the end of 4 hours my (00:20:55) students say I spent four hours and I (00:20:57) don't know what even what I saw or what (00:20:58) I learned learned or what I did it just (00:21:00) was 4 hours down the drain so I I don't (00:21:03) think there's any way to either give (00:21:06) kids lots of short videos and have that (00:21:07) be good for them or put them in contact (00:21:09) with strangers on an unverified platform (00:21:11) some of whom want to see photos of them (00:21:13) in their underwear like why are we doing (00:21:16) this there's no way to make that safe